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Lets disuse the not so hot topic of vaccination

http://www.informationliberation.com/files/anthraxVaccine.jpg


So tell me what do you think about vaccination, do you trust them?

Missing Captain Trips option.

Of course I am vaccinated against all commom diseases and also get vaccinates when doing trips to foreign countries. Everything else is stupid and advocating against vaccination is just ignorant and dangerous. If you want to put the tinfoil hat on, do it, but please shut up   :P

http://www.naturalnews.com/031616_vaccines_Japan.html

is this a load of BS? are they making it all up?

or is it pointing out some real dangers of vaccines


This Is a tinfoil hat thread, if you want no part in it, click somewhere else

Adults choosing not to vaccinate themselves is stupid but fine, adults choosing not to vaccinate their children is neglect - pure and simple.

I consider it a parental duty to look after one's children using all means at your disposal - modern medical science has given us the ability to prevent a whole pile of diseases that could otherwise be deadly and it's often very very simple to take advantage of such treatment.

It's forgivable to not vaccinate where you don't know better (despite all the public education on the subject), or where you have been deceived by bad science or where you lack the resources and it's literally a choice between food and drink or medical care........ but at least for anyone reading this i'm betting you have the ability to read up on the subject and that you have the financial resources.

There is perhaps a bit of paranoia involved with vaccines as many governments make it mandatory, and in this community in particular that won't sit well. I would say that government mandate does not transform a good idea into a bad idea - vaccinating your kids is still a duty even if the government mandates it, and vaccinating yourself is still a damn good idea.

Why did you ask "are you vaccinated?" only to complain when people answer "yes".

Even if you dont believe in all the craziness people spout, do you own research.

Read up on the ingredients of these vaccines, and the effects of those additives. Of course i know the response ill get from most of you, if pharmaceutical companies & the FDA say its safe, then it must be, its not like their trying to make billions off selling their drugs... (or are they?). Hell, its not like anything coming out of the mouths of federal organizations will hold any weight, with teh cesspool of corruption that its come to over the years.

GlaxoSmithKline anyone?

If science says it's safe then it probably is, if the FDA says it's dangerous then it probably is, if the FDA says it's safe then double check with the science.

I am a little biased as I study pharmacy, I have to admit, but given this I also know what I am talking about. It is true, that some ingredients (preservants or adjuvantia) are highly toxic BUT they are only added in ridicolously low concentrations. I would happily drink even a litre of such a solution right in front of you :)
While adults may choose not to get vaccinated, they still should. Vaccination is only effective if a certain mass of the population is vaccinated, otherwise it does not make sense. It is good, that most choose to do it and hopefully it will stay this way.

The FDA is the giant joke..... Each week i see a NEW commercial for a recalled prescription drug that was deemed SAFE & approved by the FDA. You do know that lab results are tampered with on a daily basis in these labs, it never matters whether the drug is a cure all with 0 side effects, or rat poison with a 95% kill ratio; it all depends on the manufacture and how much money they can put behind their new drug. (For lobbying, paying off doctors, bullshiting results, the works...)

While this helps protect the unvaccinated, i'm wondering - if I choose to vaccinate but everyone else around me chooses not to, am I in danger?

Hence why I said double check if the FDA claims it safe - if they claim it to be dangerous then they're probably right though.

Thats another bullshit excuse i see from people trying to force it on others... "If you dont get your kid vaccinated, your going to infect mine!!!"... Hey dummy, if your kid got the vaccine, isnt he supposed to be protected anyway?

If somebody responds to this, please give me a legit straight answer, not some cookie cutter bullshit you heard on from some Dr Drew Dipshit; which also recieved a $25000 check to help push a drug on his show from who else but big pharma.

I have to admit, although I support vaccination this one confuses me

No, at least not in immediate danger. You are still immune to the disease you are vaccinated against. But if everyone around you is not vaccinated, the strain mutates faster, probably resulting in a variant your vaccination does not provide immunisation against but don't quote me on that as I am no virologist :)

Some of the best advice on the subject I've read yet.

AND HERE WE ARE, OUR FIRST COOKIE CUTTER BULLSHIT ANSWER.

Atleast he admitted, hes not sure. You wont get that from the assholes on tv that act like they know what their talking about. Its like when they ask a volley ball player what route the united states should take on its foreign policy matters.... its like wtf, are you serious...

What exactely is your problem with my post? Do you think it is impossible that a mutated variant MAY infect a vaccinated person? Vaccines do not cover all variants of a given disease (this is why you need to get a new flu shot every year)

First off, i know its not impossible for a virus to mutate. My problem with your answer is that its nearly word for word off the script handed to any MSM news outlet.

When it comes to the public, we're not exactly the brightest of the bunch, and we take the first word we hear & see on the subject as if it was from god himself. Such as when new outlets release information about an individual being a killer (posted on front page), but later is proven to be innocent. Now, in the eyes of the public, that man is still a murdering piece of shit, as the news if any repost is ever done, ends up on page 7.

The same rules apply to all this vaccine shit, and the news spouting out that we will all die if we dont lie up like sheep and take that shot to keep us safe. (im reffering to these new age vaccine scares theyve attempted) As history plays on, we're finding out more and more that this vaccine shit is no-good, yet what we've already heard has burned into our minds as the one and only "truth"

Well, thats the prevailing academical doctrine. You may dispute that, but please support your argument with some evidence

I am truly not on either side. As for myself, I guess it never dawned on me to get vaccinated ever since I passed 19 years of age, I believe it was a school thing. I've run across one severe case where I have sweated it out for days, this was a couple years after HS. Ever since, like I said, it never dawned on me to get vaccinated, I haven't ran across any flu's yet. I get a cold & sore throat once in a while in winter, by a day, it's gone, but that's about it. If I get it again, like that case I stated above, I'll let my body handle it. I think for some reason, my immune system is in far more greater shape than a normal person immune system for some reason, is that even possible?

I wasn't stupid to not get vaccinated, it never dawned on me, and well, ever since, I've been doing fine. My family members run into a lot of people that has not been vaccinated, but my family has been vaccinated, but if I heard correctly, the bug can still travel on a vaccinated person and pass on to one that hasn't been vaccinated [example, myself.] I've been fine. But in coming years, as I get older and my immune system disintegrates, I will probably take it into consideration.

If were going to bring personal info into it, back in the day when i was a youngen, i would get my yearly flu shot, and still get the flu. The year i decided to tell the doctor to screw off, i have yet to have a flu since then. (13 years and counting)


If you want to see the dark side of vaccines, youd need to take a trip to a third world country like Africa. I have a couple friends over there doing missionary/medical work with the locals for some college program, and it seems every time a UN vaccine squad comes through a village, sterility & paralysis follows...

Because not all children can be vaccinated: some (such as those with immune disorders) are actually allergic to some or all vaccines, and rely on the immunity of those around them to avoid being infected. And by "allergic" I don't mean some quack saying the vaccines are evil, I mean the very doctors who are supposedly being payed by the pharmaceutical companies will refuse to administer the vaccine, presumably because the cost of lost sales commissions is less than the cost of malpractice suits from dead children's parents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru3tOVzgQ5Y&feature=related

Because the almighty says it, it must be true......

Before i kick somebody in the mouth, im going to tell them only the coolest richest most badass doodz like getting kicked in the mouth....

Well, at least it's good to know that nuts won't decieve me. They're preserved with salt, not lies. Wait a minute... salt is sodium chloride! That contains chlorine! Chlorine is bad for you! I'd better put on a gas mask... *attempts to eat nuts by mashing them against gas mask filter* Dammit, this isn't working! What am I doing wrong?

what they said mercury is good for mental performance!
lol wow, UN-Fucking-believable

Flu disclosure: I haven't read a single word of this thread, but know damn will it's a hate thread directed toward me. If I find out that that's the case, I will not hesitate to report this thread to the mods and have it taken down. There is no place in this world, especially on this forum, for alpacaphobes.

Are you vaccinated? Yeez! What next? Starting an alpaca watch organization because shit has been turning up missing, and the mistaken deer hoof prints look like they were left my an alpaca?

~Al the Alpaca~

Edit: Gulp! I guess not everything is about me. I would have sworn this was about getting rabies shots. I now feel so sick to my stomach for penning the above.

i have debated the vaccination issue over and over
and every time my wife ends up throwing something at me!

this thread is not directed toward you....

I see that now, hence the edit you so conveniently forgot to quote. (Oops! This ain't the insult thread. My apologies.)

~Al the Alpaca~

Better be careful about water too. I saw a local water quality report the other day that said there were levels of dihydrogen monoxide that would make your eyes pop. That shit can kill you!

I hear that levels of DHMO in the water supply are in the 90%+ range now

DHMO really deserves a whole new thread. That stuff kills a lot of people.

A very legitimate point. I don't personally believe in forcing anyone to do anything. It is your life to live however you see fit, so long as you are not forcing, harming, or deceiving others in the process.

Personally, if you want to remove yourself from risk, don't do it by forcing everyone else to get vaccinated. Pack your bags and head for rural Montana. Are you afraid of car accidents? Stay off the freeway. Part of freedom is the freedom to take risks.

Now, for the vaccine-faithful, you better open your eyes to some harsh realities. Those people pushing vaccines are not just a bunch of benevolent philanthropists.

Baxter International Found Guilty of Distributing Live Flu Virus to 18 Countries:
http://goo.gl/6bpzL

GlaxoSmithKline Fined $3 Billion for bribery, etc:
http://goo.gl/hfP7o

Merck Makes False Claims:
http://www.naturalnews.com/036328_Merck_mumps_vaccine_False_Claims_Act.html

Flu vaccine in the 70s caused a number of deaths and permanent disabilities:
http://goo.gl/0O01w

So to the rest of you of the blind faith in the crony-capitalism that drives much of the pharmaceutical industry, enlighten us and please tell us which vaccines are safe and which are not. :p

Got to just say one thing:

Vaccacines are a good thing if you put some common sense on them:

You dont need a Flu vaccacination every year if you are not prone to flu anyway. Never had a flu vaccacination and never had a flu even though i deal a lot with random people.
You dont need a hepatitis vac if you sue to stay at home 99% of the time.. but if you are at places that you cant be sure of water qwuality such a vac is indeed useful...
But you HAVE to keep your children vaccacinated - at least for those common "child" illnesses... Take Polio as an example.. its a painless vaccacination because children only have to swallow a cube of sugar yet people choose their children not to get vaccacined.. and here comes the argument i read above "If you dont vac your child, mine will get infected." Thats NOT bullshit.
In my extended family we had the case that a 2yr old was infected with Polio because some shithead had his son not vaccacined. That infected youth was 11yrs old - and vaccacination happens here at 6yrs to 8yrs.. he didnt "believe" in that stuff. Nevertheless his son died, that 2yr old is disabled for the rest of her life and who knows who else got infected.

So i just got to say: Vaccacines have to be applied with common sense, but since children dont have common sense they HAVE to be vaccacined till they can decide theirselfes and "Oh no.. i dont want no injection" doesnt count as "decision".

I want to make my argument really clear so you can all use this if you need to too:


I'm not against vaccines but you have to recognize that they are contained in a cocktail of chemicals designed to kill stuff and they will kill you only a little less because you are bigger.

I guess tech geeks aren't so smart when it comes to medical matters. Or maybe people are less well educated in the US. Either way the so called vaccine debate has been over for a decade, and I have no idea why it's being rehashed here.

I'd rather live somewhere children won't get measles or mumps or polio and end up blind or deaf or paralysed. Herd immunity is important, so if you don't immunise your kids I'd rather you live elsewhere.

@TwinTurbo: a bunch of links to google search results and to the "Natural News" (not exactly peer reviewed literature) is not evidence. Come up with some better evidence, and then try to draw some conclusions other than "Wow a pharmaceutical company got fined for being bad, that means all vaccines are bad.

The problem with the vaccine thing is that people don't differentiate between the different vaccines. They're just one lump of either "all good", or "all bad".

That's not the truth at all. There are some vaccines which have been around for decades. They're proven. Safe. Polio, MMR, Tetanus.

There are other vaccines which are new, rushed into production, and pushed to as many people as possible. Untested. Unproven. Vaccines such as the one for HPV.

These companies make sometimes hundreds of dollars per shot for these vaccines. They want to make their cash before the patent on the drug runs out.

There's your problem, right there.

What's unsafe about the Gardasil? And it wasn't exactly "rushed into production" unless if you consider 30 years of development before it was first released "rushed".

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4240888-500803.html

Interestingly, The symptoms described in the article above are not listed here:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

From the article:

This does not constitute evidence that there is a problem with Gardasil. It's a correlation at best and anecdotal as well.

A doctor I met once told me of another doctor who was about to administer a vaccine to a child. Just before it was administered, the child had their first ever seizure, and thereafter was diagnosed with epilepsy. If the vaccine had been given a few moment later and the seizure occurred after the vaccine was administered, a parent could be forgiven for thinking that one caused the other. But correlation != causation.

Another point to remember is that you can't believe everything you hear in the news. Reporters have to have a point to push or the story won't sell. If there's a significant problem with Gardasil, there'll be scientists out there to prove there's a problem, to get the kudos from publishing an important paper.

Honestly, it's not the vaccine itself I have an issue with. It's the business practices.

Gardasil is probably the best example of this. It's a vaccine for HPV, right? OK, that's great. What is HPV, anyway? It's an STD. But what do they market it as? A vaccine not for an STD, but for cervical cancer! And HPV doesn't cause every case of cervical cancer. All they've proven is that it's been present in 70% of cases where cervical cancer developed.

What was that you said? correlation != causation, I think it was.

And now, now... they want to give it to boys, too! I'm not against vaccines in general. They're a great idea. Overall, I think the rewards outweigh the risks. But a vaccine for a virus which might cause cancer, and is easily preventable by other means? I gotta call bullshit on this one. Other blatant money grabs include proposed vaccines for smoking, of all things! I mean, come on.

Now, let's compare Gardasil to the flu shot. There are almost always shortages of flu shots, so they limit it to "high risk groups", such as hospital workers, and the elderly. No shortage of Gardasil, though. Nope, never any shortages there. They want to have it mandatory, even! (WTF?) I smell greed, greed blown beyond all rational proportions.

Not seeing that sort of marketing in my country. They're vary careful about what they say it prevents.
Now you're pulling stats out of your bum. It's proven effective against all types of cancer caused by the human papillomavirus, not just cervical cancer, btw. So boys don't get HPV induced cancer? Oh. Huh. Well then. Even if males couldn't get HPV induced cancer, which they can, the importance of herd immunity is such that the greatest possible coverage is necessary.

What I understand from your posts is that though you seem rational in most respects, in this one regard you seem pretty biased. You only regard HPV as an inducer of cervical cancer, and feel that reducing causes of this horrible disease is unnecessary. From this I can guess that either 1. women are not important to you or 2. You're christian and think that anyone engaging in extra marital sex is getting their just desserts.

If you're not either of these, then you've been misinformed by sensationalist media and  I apologise in advance.

FWIW cervical cancer is a horrible way to die and I'm in support of a vaccine that prevents it. I find it disgusting that, from what you say, people in your country actually have to pay for the vaccine, but that shouldn't colour your attitude toward the vaccine - direct your anger toward a government that can't provide an effective health care system for their citizens.

I'll just leave this here: UNICEF - How many lives do vaccinations save each year? (1996) (http://www.unicef.org/pon96/hevaccin.htm)

Answer: On the order of 10 million lives saved per year, mostly young children.

Gates Foundation - Progress towards Immunization:


Every time a homeopath tells someone not to vaccinate their children, God kills a kitten baby.

Who is them?

With vaccionation it is as simple as math can be. If the risk is higher whilst you are not vaccinated, than do something about it. If not why worry?
The statistics are there, they are needed for approval, just read them.

The flu vaccination campaigns of the past years brought the topic back.
If you look a little bit deeper into what happend, you´d be amazed plus a little bit more careful with vaccinations.
I´ll just drop one small potion of disenchantment on flu vaccination.
Statistics around here say: The docs don´t take it!

Everyone is vaccinated so I don't need them since my environment is already disease free.  ;D

My son has had all his vaccinations up to date... But ME ..... I refuse to get the flu shot........ <--- I did once years ago... I was out of work for 10 days afterwards I was so sick..... Never again.. Have yet to have a sick day :P

Of course yes i'm vaccinated, welcome in 2012, where thanks to vaccins people no more die to fail disease

I don't do the flu shot cause i don't need it, i can happily survive a flu without problems but i have all the important vaccines.

You surviving the flu: good for you! Not so good for those to whom you pass it. Neonates (brand spanking new babies) might not be able to survive the flu, and they can't be vaccinated. They rely on you not to have the flu and pass it on.

I dont' work near them, actually i'm almost never near a baby

I prefer to get a "wild" sample of the sickness thats been "half defeated" inside the host.
Such a a seasonal cold, I'll call one of my buddies over to get me sick.
Helps to bolster the auto immune system.
Also i hate needles
Also i dont like pharmecudicals

If HPV causes cancer, (and the stats I've seen only link it to cervical cancer - if you have others, I'd love to see them) then I agree that we should do something to prevent it. But that something need not be a vaccine. STDs are entirely preventable - not just through abstinence, though that's a 100% effective way - condoms work fine, too. I'm not even - as I said - against people getting vaccinated willingly, especially those in "high risk" careers, such as porn actresses and other sex workers. It's the forcing people to get vaccinated for an STD that boggles my mind.

If you've read my other posts, especially those over in the politics forum, then you know that I am absolutely against forcing anyone to do anything, even if it's "for their own good." I don't hate women, and I'm not some moralist that thinks God is striking down the sinful. I just think that making an STD vaccine mandatory to enter schooling is fucking ridiculous. That was the reason for the (WTF?) above... I mean, do they think the kids will be fucking in the halls?

Thankfully, no, the people do not directly pay the hundreds of dollars that the pharmaceutical company makes off each shot. Vaccines are covered by insurance, so few, if any, actually have to pay out of pocket for them. But no matter where, exactly, the money is coming from, it just sickens me to see a company directly profiting from a government regulation. Once Gardasil is out of patent, I'm betting that this hype will die down, and only people actually at increased risk of getting HPV will get the shot.

I get the recommended stuff, minus the flu shot because it's never stopped me getting a flu when I did get it.

I've had over 35 injections of various kinds because I travel a lot. I had to have them renewed too. Rabies was the worst - 3 shots of bright red liquid straight into the arm!

At one point I wanted to get as many extra as I could as I thought it was great.

How's about quit fighting over the issue and fix the problem with the preservation by altering the delivery or offering a premium option for those who wish to pay where we can take the shot soon after it is manufactured?

I can't track down specific problems to injections but I have experienced problems with using silver on the skin - it created a slight negative charge... which like Mercury fillings only presents a problem if it's persistent and in a place sensitive to it but you certainly won't read about this or get any help from a doctor; it took me years to figure it out!

Likewise, some vaccines use heavy metals for preservative some I'm confident that those metals, where ever they end up will be causing a problem inside me somewhere. I don't think the amounts are enough to worry about but then... I'd like to know how much is in a shot so I can compare to my real life experience elsewhere. Still, I can be proud I served society, ready to lay down my health for the greater good, "Viva!"

This.

For me, the rest of the vaccine debate isn't that important. Get it and protect yourself, don't and take the risks, *yawn.*

But the annual flu shot has got to be the biggest medical scam the U.S. has seen in recent decades.

I think the HPV one might be a scam, I think the stats are 50% of people will have HPV in there lives.
If you ever have had unprotected sex you most likely have HPV.

"Up to 20 million Americans are currently infected with sexually transmitted HPV, and it is estimated that 75 percent of reproductive age women and men have been infected with genital HPV at some point in their lives"
From PP

"Although there is currently no "cure" for genital HPV infection, most cases are transient and clear themselves without medical intervention" -CDC

So its a virus that almost anyone can get and in most cases goes away with medical intervention?

The chances of me not having HPV in my life is .0000000000001% lol

I'm Currently up to date on my vaccinations

And I only Put in me what is required by Law Or my Employer as a condition of my employment.

There are very many strains of HPV, only some of which are linked with cancer.


The HPV vaccine immunizes against some of these strains. The lifetime risk of HPV is very high, the lifetime risk of getting cancer from HPV is very low, but real. If you die from cervical cancer, chances are it started with a preventable HPV infection. Perfect worldwide immunization would save some hundreds of thousand lives per year.


The vaccine is not perfect. Medicine does not run on magic.


It should be abundantly clear that it's empathetically not a scam.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_cancer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV_vaccine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV

Just to be clear, which is it that you're certain is not a scam: that the vaccine is legitimate and works, that the push for mandatory immunization of schoolchildren with it is legitimate, or both?

Sorry I wasn't clear enough, I think its a scam for males not females.

Since last time i checked I have very little risk of Cervical Cancer.

Cervical Cancer affects 12K a year.

High-risk HPVs cause virtually all cervical cancers. They also cause most anal cancers and some vaginal, vulvar, penile, and oropharyngeal cancers.

~4k Women a year die from cervical cancer.
 0.42 percent of people per 100K die of cervical cancer
 
seems like very little risk for the cost of the drug like 1100 or 1200?

Is it normal in your respective countries to vaccinate once a year for the flu?

Supossing you are under 70 years old.

It is offered to everyone at any age for free..... from all doctors’ offices and walk in style clinic's....



I had one very bad experience with the flu shot.. I will never get it again; my wife and son both get the shot.....



My son has had all his vaccinations up to date. In Canada or at least Ontario children will not be admitted to school unless they have all their vaccination records.

Here in Italy it's suggested that people that have problems/old people have it, for everyone else it's not suggested, their choice.

It's your choice.. Most don't IMO.... Canada :)

HPV infections are also implicated in penile and testicular cancers, though at a lower rate than cervical cancer.

Also, even if they're unaffected by it, men can easily transmit HPV to women, so having everyone vaccinated helps via herd immunity.