Bitcoin Forum

A while back R- agreed to pay me between 33-53 bitcoin for creating an info graphic, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78931.0).

I've been paid 4 btc of the 40 he's agreed to pay me via pm so far, (https://blockchain.info/address/15XUdj8CdWTNQjq4g3y5JhbGpiAFrHqQyj), however I have yet to receive the remaining 36 bitcoin.

R claims that the remainder of the money is stuck in Intersango, I have not yet received the agreed payment.

With long delays between excuses, and vague feedback, confusing criticism it's taken a roughly eight hours of work and nearly two months with the constant revisions to complete the project.

Although R is claiming to be unable to retrieve his Bitcoins in order to pay for what he agreed to, he is still clearly looking to spend those nonexistant Bitcoins.
 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82719.msg1031622#msg1031622)

This wasn't spec work was it?

Not really, it was agreed that there would be a payment before the finished product. However, It's been completed, and have yet to receive it.

For what it's worth, I can say that I honestly believe Mushroomized is telling the truth, and not just some scammer looking for money. I've been working with him for a long time, and have found him to be very trustworthy. I remember when he told me about the job he got with this guy. From what I can remember, R- was very demanding, and always found something wrong with Mushroomized's work, and repeatedly insisted that it be redone. Mushroomized worked very hard to meet R-'s demands, and I would hate to see all his work go for only 4 BTC.

I'm sorry to hear this, hope you get paid dude.

As I am sure you know this is very common with this business.  None designers think they can ask for revision after revision.  I am anti spec work and require payment up front or some kind of escrow before I accept a job.  Get what they want in writing to show to the escrow in case there is a dispute.  I really like vworker for this when dealing with new clients.

You should add the client to the shit list  (http://bitcoin-shitlist.com/)

I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP :( and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-

I wish I had saved more of our convos... but this is all I have.



Still no coins though.

2 months?!?!

But you can reverse the charges.  If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible.  Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse.

I tried to, but paypal wouldn't let me because it was marked as a gift. I funded my PP with a credit card though, not sure if this makes a difference.

Great, a credit card is even easier.  Just call your credit card company and tell them to reverse the charges.  R- has perpetrated fraud and you can reverse charges in the case of fraud.  Don't bother with contacting Paypal as they don't want to reverse charges.

Huh, ok so I opened up a case of unauthorized transaction, which appears to be the only way to reverse a gift on paypal. If that doesn't go through then I guess I can call my credit card company next.

Technically speaking, I bought 12.5 BTC for $70, but only received 4.5 BTC with a promise that he'd send the remaining 8 BTC "ASAP". Since $70 is now roughly the cost of 8 BTC, I believe I am fully justified in refunding the full dollar amount ( which I would use to buy the 8 BTC I am owed, or as close to that amount as possible. )

That really stinks that you got screwed over too, I hope maybe we can still work through this, I hope we can at least get some form of response from R-.

you believe he should pay you 70 usd back and you will return the 4.5 btc and the transaction will have never happened ..............or ........you would like to keep BOTH since the bitcoin /USD  value has changed and you feel he owes you more than 70 usd ? :)

He owes me 8 BTC, that is all.

*Sigh* This whole thing isn't worth the trouble or risk for just 8 BTC, so I just cancelled the dispute.

Lesson learned: don't use the gift feature if you're sending first. Or even better: don't ever send first unless it's someone you already trust.

[/quote]

*Sigh* This whole thing isn't worth the trouble or risk for just 8 BTC, so I just cancelled the dispute.

Lesson learned: don't use the gift feature if you're sending first. Or even better: don't ever send first unless it's someone you already trust.
[/quote]

I'm sorry about your experience, I wish I could help some how, or we could at least get some form of response out of R.

I thought if you told PayPal "bitc-" they'd hit the reverse button and lock down his account?
A credit card chargeback should be really simple though (I've only done it a few times). I just call the company and say "there's been a fraud, can you reverse payment XYZ?" They ask you a few questions and then you're done.

As for him owing you $70, that's not really correct. If you charge back the whole $70 (which I would do), then you basically got 4 free bitcoins. The payment owed is owed at the time of the transaction agreement.

Nothing is being charged back. I bought 12.5 BTC for $70, but only recieved 4.5 BTC. Therefore I am owed 8 BTC. He does not owe me any USD at all.

I'm fine with just giving R- a scammer tag and leaving it at that, unless he wants to send the 8 BTC to me and also the 36 BTC owed to OP. However, I think that outcome is unlikely.

It seems as though someones using my work as their own.. http://www.btcwallet.org/2012/07/03/info-graphic-bitcoin/

See other postings here - http://tinyurl.com/bsokoou

You won't lose your PayPal account if you call your credit card company and ask for a chargeback because of fraud.  It was fraud on the part of the seller as they did not give you the items you paid for.  I have done chargebacks for thousands of dollars (because of hosting companies failing to live up to their TOS) and my PayPal account has never been closed.

It takes about 30 - 45 days, but the longer you wait the more likely you won't get your money back.

Meh, I'll see what happens. Paypal wouldn't let me cancel the dispute anyway, so I guess in 5 more days I'll know what they're going to do, and then I can just take it from there.

I don't think it's worth bothering beyond that for a measly 8 BTC. I mean, I really don't want to discuss digital currency with my CC company or paypal.

It's more about the principle of it, which is why a scammer tag is basically the same to me as getting paid back the 8 coins. Either way is fine. It would be totally different if it were something like 100 BTC of course.

I'm not exactly sure why they are using it, or if it has any connection to R-, but, the changed the last part of the graphic referring readers to weusecoins or bitcoin.org, so I'm not exactly sure why. Also, my donation address still remains in tact.

So R- has been active on the forums but hasn't even bothered to counter these multiple claims of scamming. Can we get a tag for this guy?

We're working on it, don't worry. A payment on the first claim has just been sent.

he just gave me 3.5 more. I honestly don't know whats going on anymore

Looks like people think it is open license.

I say write this off as a contribution to the bitcoin community and move on.

Take the time you are putting into trying to squeeze blood from a stone and put it towards getting new clients!

Add this to your portfolio though. If people have seen it and they say "You did this?" Then this is a GOOD THING!

Yep, I agree, however it its kind of sad they edited the bitcoin.org out of it, since thats, like bitcoins site.

I see the bitcoin.org wording in the center though.  :D

R- clearly didn't honor his agreement, an IMO should be held accountable just as any other person would be committing other forms of theft on the forum. Not taking action against him puts Mushroomized as well as every other designer here at more risk of the same happening again. If he wants to honor it now, fine, but I have a feeling he is going to continue these pitiful partial payments, wasting as much time as possible hoping everyone will just give up so he doesn't have to pay the total. Those things aside, the promised payment was quite large. He would have to do a LOT of jobs to make that much. I see no reason why he shouldn't see this through. You would expect better behavior from a forum VIP, it makes us all look bad.

^this +1

Apparently he's also paying people to drink milk.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55258.msg1061855#msg1061855

Too bad I'm lactose intolerant.

Would have expected Bunalula to have posted in this thread by now. Perhaps there should be a "Slow Pay" tag which can be converted to the "Scammer" tag after 30 days if the BTC stops trickling in?

6.7 sent to me today, that makes 22.8 left. I will continue to update this thread as I receive payment.

"
6.70 sent. Thank you for being so patient.
https://blockchain.info/address/15XUdj8CdWTNQjq4g3y5JhbGpiAFrHqQyj

Please may you consider closing the thread? I am trying my best to pay you back bit by bit.

R-"

After I am paid off, I will post that you have paid me off, and then I will decide if I close the thread or not.

Please keep this thread open at least until I am also repaid. Thanks

I'm very glad to see that this is moving forward.

Some say he's unclemantis

Shouldn't he at least be stripped of his VIP title if he isn't being marked as a scammer?

No, he's making good progress on paying this back.

http://i.qkme.me/3qbp2j.jpg (http://gyazo.com/807c66283d9f00ce08da7c6ba40b1b9f)

Yes, he is, and I am satisfied with the settlement.

Thanks.

22.8 left here.

all you need to be a vip is 50 BTC. pretty much means you can "buy" trust.

Hope he pays it off, I made a small trade with R- and vouched for him once, would hate to see this go downhill.

True, but I will never trade with him again.

Apologies for being unreliable. I regret acting in such a way towards you as well as to Mushroomized.

Thank you :)

To be clear, the agree final price set was 40btc for the work, as seen below.


Edit: These are PM's

Wow. That's bullshit. I predicted these layered squirming and delaying of the payment of debt would happen. He thought he'd wait forever and everyone would forget, then the price skyrocketed and he fucked himself waiting forever. That profit belongs to Mush. The project has been done for a long time. The delay is completely your responsibility, therefore he shouldn't take a hit in value because you are taking forever. I guess you should just get it over with before it hits $20.

http://i.qkme.me/3qjbez.jpg

Hmm..

edit  > comment below me... ;)

Nah he was waiting for the price to crash first :)

you cant keep unpaid debts waiting because the BTC exchange rate is not to your liking

if mushroomised did the job for the agreed 40BTC than thats how much he should get .......

not 177usd .....

My point there

LOL sorry Mushroomized, I gotta admit that's funny... but only because I'm already paid back.

Yeah, its funny, but at the same time very depressing on my end.  :P

So here we are a month later, even the trickle of payments has stopped completely, Bitcoin has broken $15, and Mushroomized still hasn't been paid. At what point does this become unreasonable?

Side note:  it is a shame this had to be your 500th post-
(btw I don't think he was joking)

I'm sorry, but some of these scammer threads are really amusing. I /popcorn'd at the pictures.

Yeah, still no more money. Can we get some more pictures in here I need some laughs.

At what point does his lack of repayment become unreasonable? I say there should be a hard date set in the near future for repayment. Mushroomized has been extremely civil and patient and deserves a resolution to this be it payment or scammer tag for R-. It has become quite clear he does not intend to pay his debt in a reasonable amount of time.

Mushroomized could have had opportunities to cash out his rightful possessions at $15.28, the latest peak. That works out to be about $600 total for the project minus what has already been paid (not sure but it is a fraction of the total). Seeing as the delay is completely R-'s responsibility he should be paying the all time high value of the Bitcoins owed since project completion. That would be fair in the strictest sense, especially since he is abusing his leeway here with lack of continuing payments. He is not an insta-loan place or a a bank, he is a designer that completed the work you requested, for a fee you approved, pay the man already.

VIP tag should have been taken away a long time ago, at the very least.

Still no new news 

PM Maged and see if he will take some action.

ActualyLy, PM theymos. I already sent mage a PM about this a while back with no response.

Sorry, I didn't realize that you were looking for a response since the message was more of a FYI.

Anyway, I PM'd R- again to see what the delay is.

Maybe R- = Romney and he needs to money to pay to keep his tax records.

You cannot reverse a bank transfer unless it wasn't authorized or the recipient defrauded you. The bank transfer was authorized and the recipient of the bank transfer did not defraud you. Reversing the bank transfer in this case would be like if you wired $100 to your Son to buy books and he got mugged and you tried to reverse the wire.

You cannot dispute the credit card charge. (Well, you can, but there will be very bad consequences.) The credit card payment was made to PayPal, and PayPal did what you asked them to do and did not defraud you.

The credit card payment wasn't to R, it was to PayPal. PayPal doesn't guarantee that R will comply with the terms of your agreement -- in fact, they make it specifically clear to you that they don't. That's why you have to lie to them to make the transfer. If anything, you defrauded PayPal by exposing them to a risky transaction they specifically made it clear they wouldn't accept.

It's like you went to a bank to withdraw $1,000 and they said, "Hey, don't take that in cash, this is a risky neighborhood" and you said "It's not problem, I have a car waiting right outside". Then you walked around with the money, got mugged, and now want the bank to give you back your $1,000.

(The consequence of doing this, by the way, will be that PayPal will ban you and anyone associated with you from using their service for life. You will have straight up defrauded them.)

I've been doing art and making web sites a long time. I started actually selling my work 20 years ago as an illustrator for small time sci-fi, fantasy & horror mags (u likely haven't heard of any and they probably don't exist anyway). When the internet took off I moved into that and have created online ads and web sites for many companies you're heard of. I could probably give you lots of advice if you're just starting out, but you'd have to pay me for my time. :)

What I *will* impart to you for free, you lucky dog, is:
- never work for spec. We know this, most of us having learned the hard way, yet are still tempted from time to time. Don't do it. Those that want you to work for free, only to pay you when its done to their satisfaction, will never be satisfied or will drive you crazy if you're lucky enough that they arrive at satisfaction. You will go broke working this way. You will lose some clients taking this route, but the clients you keep working on spec aren't worth having.
- when you take a job use a contract in writing even if its informal such as an email. Setup and agree to phases. Agree to get paid 25% or 33% to start and for each phase. Agree to get paid another installment upon delivery of the first round of art. Agree to only a few rounds or revisions (and be sure to define "few" as in 3 or 4). Agree if the client needs more revisions they pay more for those. Agree to final payment on delivery. Agree to only give final files and the right to use said art only upon final payment of all funds due to you. Again, you will lose potential clients this way. Some will not be satisfied upon hearing you won't revise for free until the end of eternity. I assure you a business can be built through honest clients who understand they cannot ask for unlimited revisions. And again, when you work for those who insist on unlimited revisions you are asking to have clients who will abuse you -- there are people who only use beginners so they can abuse them in this way.
- clients will ask you how, if they pay you, they can be sure to like what you deliver. They cannot be sure. They need to be comfortable with your previous body of work and hire you based on it. Some won't, some will definitely. Build your business by doing a great job for those who've hired you because those peopl will be advocates later to help you sell to others who are wary of being satisfied. You will still, once in a great while, not satisfy someone. Art is subjective. We can't please everyone all the time. It may not end well in this situation (i'll tell you my experience if u want to know but its pretty boring) but you will have delivered each phase of the agreement that has been paid to you and at least been paid for your time up to the disappointment. You are selling time. You are not selling web sites or logos. You are selling your time.

Having said all this, I sorta tested the shark infested waters of this community a year ago and nearly got bitten since I did not practice any of what I just preached to you, but I was risking $3 and a half an hour. If this is your career you need to be more careful.

ooooh, I appreciate the insight man. Good advice :)

So did you ever get paid Mush? See, she took a loan from me for 10 BTC, and she said she would have paid me back a long time ago, but she never got paid for some work. Now due to the terms of our loan that we set as a joke at the time, she now owes me 1.8 Million BTC, as we set the terms that 200% interest would compound daily after our initial 1 month agreement.

So... if Mush doesn't get her BTC soon, I'm going to have to break her other leg. And trust me, she doesn't need any more deformities. R, could you live with yourself knowing that you are making some poor hideous woman even more hideous as she falls deeper and deeper into debt?

BTW, Mush, it will be 3.6 Million BTC owed in 1 hour and 20 minutes, so you better hurry the hell up.


_{also, hopefully by now, people have realized that I was joking. About the money anyway. I'm serious about having to break her other leg, and the ugly part though}

Well, he got a scammer tag, I never got paid back and now I'm going to lose one of my legs...

Well, you will still owe me 7.2 Million BTC in 1 hour and 55 minutes. And I will steal your cat.

I have his email and full name if you want to pursue this further. Just PM me.

Nah I sent him a pm, he said he was still working to resolve it. Hes being pretty nice right now.

Hi,
 Thank you for the vote of confidence. I am working to pay you back.

R-

Mang, you better hurry up. Mush owes me 460.8 Million BTC at this point. It will be 921.6 Million in 7 Hours.

Welp I PM'd him once more, to see if hes going to actually do this or is just still messing with me (for whatever reason)

what happened to the 23k btc college fund?

well I never heard anything from him since the last pm, ABANDON ALL HOPE

hm, I had no hope in the first place. I tried to call him on skype a few times. not worked out for me.

He messed you over too?

 :-\

not at all. i like him a lot, had only good experience with him, excellent written communication.
i just tried to call him several times on skype to discuss more efficiently some technical documentation for a possible project.
and since i could not reach him for voice, was lazy to write everything down, we never progressed.
but in no way he 'messed' whatever in my general direction. just that skype did not work for me
i'm surprised he's in trouble. i was not very active here on the forums lately.
and i once tried to purchase coins from him but could not reach him as well.
but no harm done to me.

Well the fact that he cant answer you either may mean that something actually did happen. Either way..

oh, my fault! should have started with 'my story is nothing recent'
i tried to call him earlier this year, not in touch with him already for a few months.
i was just surprised to see him tagged and wonder what happened. :(

ah.. Well maybe one day he will show up with my money on christmas and santa will be there with elves.

PM from R-
"Hi,
 Do you think we can come to an agreement over my repayment to you?

Thank you."

I would prefer you post all further questions or whatever to me in this thread.

But as for an "agreement" to pay me back. You can pay me the amount of bitcoins that you owe me to - 1GbMFKHHSyP8x4AwN4xRE1iRYgnCapv8HM-  22.8 left to pay..


As a side note, this is the first communication with him in months, I'm not trying to "milk" this or anything. He contacted me without any recent communication on my end. But the fact that he still.. wants.. to pay me back shows something. And I'm not really sure what that something is.

Hahaha, I wonder what he meant by "an agreement."

He wants to renegotiate the debt of course. Stop trying to weasel out of the debt and pay what you owe already.

I would like to pay back Mushroomized. Allow me to apologize for not paying you in the first place.

I will contact Maged to help me through the process.

What.. process are you talking about?

Looks like his position is in scammer now.

The process of finding the "Send Coins" button in the interface.

That shit is hard, man. Troubled me at first too. This board really should have a support group for people who have trouble with it.

Maybe he wants to ensure the scammer tag will be removed?

I guess he didnt think that the price of a bitcoin would be around $14.

I can help facilitate the payback if Maged is busy. Witnessed both posts.

I'm willing to help do whatever to speed up the payment. However I would like to remind everyone that the amount was agreed to in BTC, and not USD or any other currency.

It has been 3 months past this post in 27.25 hours. At that rate, Mush now owes me 16,602,069,666,338,596,454,400,000 BTC, and I am tired of her "repayment methods" (Mush isn't very attractive) and I can't break any more bones. I contacted the mob to ask what they would do in this case, and they don't even know. Its not even worth the trouble anymore, so I'll just settle for the 10BTC she owed me in the first place.

When mushy doesn't get his payment, I cry.

;-;

Wow, this issue is so old that I've even disabled notifications for this topic (hence my late response). That being said, I did not receive any communication from R- recently, so I don't know what's happening with this.

With that kind of attitude you'd be lucky to get anything more back. R- has already defaulted on this, so it'd be to your benefit to just get as much out of this as you can. One idea of what you can do is to send him an offer that gives him until a set date to pay you back at a discount, but on the condition that if he fails to do so he'll owe you even more than he currently does. Give him a limited amount of time to accept this offer. As a show of good-faith, it would be nice to at least make an offer like this once.

Of course, if you and R- come to an agreement, we would be happy to remove R-'s scammer tag.

Yeah! You should be nice to scammers. Don't take a negative attitude with them  ::)

Oh god, because our signatures are similar when I see the familiar color scheme I think it is one of my posts.. and then I wonder when I said that  ??? :P

Would asking for 20 BTC by Jan 31, 2013 to the address 13Yg8Xg7ZGWjArH3mXXhi9zE2Vt5JQfLBV be fine then?

::)

::)

Absolutely. R-, this is a limited-time 2.8 BTC discount, so I'd recommend accepting and paying it.

Do do do
Didn't get paid -http://blockchain.info/address/13Yg8Xg7ZGWjArH3mXXhi9zE2Vt5JQfLBV

Take a look at the infographic (https://i.imgur.com/U0XBOGt.png) created by Mushroomized.

What the fuck.

My eyes cringe; the horrible typography and lack of readability might be one of the reasons why R- defaulted on his payment.

• Crap icons, inconsistent of theme
• Rough edges, made in paint?
• Typography is horrible: poor font choice, line-spacing, placement

Looks unfinished, and is far from polished. I can confidently say a 12 year old, if given the knowledge of Bitcoin, could design something monumentally better than this.

I would never consider paying for such a incompetent piece of crap, if delivered to me. Unfortunately, it was R-'s mistake for agreeing on these terms of payment.

Im 11

I have became aware Mushroomized does not like direct linking to his intellectual property. And thus has shown the ability to show shock images when users expect an infographic.

https://i.imgur.com/U0XBOGt.png

The infographic's ain't that bad as you made it out. I personally find it to be refreshing and to-the-point.

Thank you!
I can accept criticism, but being rude about it inst constructive. And, uh I just changed the link to a screenshot of your profile since you where being rude and this isn't much of your business. So directly lying and calling it a shock image is just... lying? Although you may consider your profile a shock image.

Edit- I would also appreciate if you could just post the link, not actually create an image tag in the thread since it takes up so much space -

probably R- on another account trying to browbeat the debt down...

LOL :)

He returns! R-, whether you agree with BasementMiner or not, I'd like to point out one part of his quote in particular.

Thx RT. I take full blame for the situation. I agreed to pay Mushroomzed about $140 in BTC while I had an income. When that stream dried up I could not afford to pay him.

Have you sold anything yet? I'll settle for silver or gold in the mail if you want.
edit- or your local currency.
Edit- or just bank deposit to mtgox.

If you do this, I will take 17btc as repayment for the next 3 months. This is the last time I am doing this since I see that you are actually trying to pay me back

around 550$ US, or you could buy that much in gold from ampex.com, or silver- or bank wire directly to mtgox and transfer it to my account on there as well. Let me know.

Mushroomized, at the value these coins are at now you could probably put a lien on this guys home for this debt. lol.

That is the worst infographic i have ever seen.

lol