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Title: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: pirateat40 on July 24, 2012, 09:19:04 PM Howdy,
As most of you know the infamous Vandroiy and myself entered into a wager for 5,000 each (10,000 BTC total). If you missed it, you can check it out here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.0. With the knowledge of what he was up against I must say that I respect Vandroiy’s commitment of following through and placing his money where his mouth is. It’s rarely seen on the Internet and I commend him for it. With that said, I simply wouldn't have made the wager unless I knew exactly what the outcome would be. So the time has come for Vandroiy to make his final decision. Vandroiy has the following (2) options to choose from:
Vandroiy has until Thursday at 5:00PM CST to make his decision. Let the fun begin. -pirate Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: jamesg on July 24, 2012, 09:26:13 PM I am pirateat40 and I approve this message. :o
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: koin on July 24, 2012, 09:28:05 PM As most of you know the reason we know is because this crap percolates into the trading forum rather than off-topic or gambling where it belongs. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 24, 2012, 09:33:00 PM How is this a trading discussion? What trade are we discussing?
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BlackBison on July 24, 2012, 09:36:27 PM is the wager money in escrow? if not this has to rank as the worst bet i have ever seen someone make (Vandroiys)..
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: copumpkin on July 24, 2012, 09:38:00 PM is the wager money in escrow? if not this has to rank as the worst bet i have ever seen someone make (Vandroiys).. Yes, it is. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BlackBison on July 24, 2012, 09:39:21 PM ah ok, scratch that comment then ;D
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BTCurious on July 24, 2012, 09:39:45 PM Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Tomatocage on July 24, 2012, 09:45:53 PM
Nevermind, I was thinking of the BetsOfBitco.in bet: http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=433[/list] Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Bjork on July 24, 2012, 09:50:32 PM Howdy, As most of you know the infamous Vandroiy and myself entered into a wager for 5,000 each (10,000 BTC total). If you missed it, you can check it out here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.0. With the knowledge of what he was up against I must say that I respect Vandroiy’s commitment of following through and placing his money where his mouth is. It’s rarely seen on the Internet and I commend him for it. With that said, I simply wouldn't have made the wager unless I knew exactly what the outcome would be. So the time has come for Vandroiy to make his final decision. Vandroiy has the following (2) options to choose from:
Vandroiy has until Thursday at 5:00PM CST to make his decision. Let the fun begin. -pirate Why would he concede. If he really thought he was going to lose he could just invest in BS&T as a hedge and win no matter the outcome. Just my .02 btc Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: bpd on July 24, 2012, 09:51:33 PM Nonsense post is nonsense.
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Serge on July 24, 2012, 10:04:20 PM If Vandroiy's determined you're going to default by sometime in October 2013, why would he give up so early in the game?
Even if he changed his mind and thinks he already lost, it would not make sense to concede Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: davout on July 24, 2012, 10:06:01 PM As most of you know the reason we know is because this crap percolates into the trading forum rather than off-topic or gambling where it belongs. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dooglus on July 24, 2012, 10:06:11 PM Don’t concede the wager and chance the outcome of Aug 14th. What's the significance of that date? The bet is until October 2013 or so isn't it? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: myrkul on July 24, 2012, 10:12:59 PM Don’t concede the wager and chance the outcome of Aug 14th. What's the significance of that date? The bet is until October 2013 or so isn't it? That was, I believe, the date of the Vegas meetup. The bet was, If I recall correctly, that pirate would default by then. The October bet is something else. (see my sig) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Tomatocage on July 24, 2012, 10:17:36 PM Wait, so we've got three separate bets going on here?
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Serge on July 24, 2012, 10:20:44 PM wager terms from OP link:
Contract signed by me. Expect same contract signed by pirateat40 and vandroiy shortly. Once deposits are made, I'll post confirmation message. Quote -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This contract is a contingent payout agreement between irc user known as pirateat40 (otc gpg key fingerprint 067508A49BBE0E8216A61A94614DB74CFA5B357E) and irc user known as vandroiy (otc gpg key fingerprint 5BD4BBB2FAABBB6877396A720380BA6269B31D08). otc user nanotube (otc gpg key fingerprint D8B11AAC59A873B0F38D475CE7F938BEC95594B2) will serve as escrow agent for the agreement, holding in his care the bitcoin contributions from both parties, until such a time as the contingency can be decided unambiguously. The contingency in question is to be the default of by pirateat40 (defined below) on BTCST obligations. In case default occurs, the funds held by nanotube will be disbursed to an address of vandroiy's choosing. In case default does not occur, the funds will be disbursed to an address of pirateat40's choice. pirateat40 and vandroiy shall each deposit with nanotube 5050 (five thousand and fifty) bitcoins, of which 50 (fifty) shall be a fee to nanotube, and 5000 (five thousand) shall go toward the contingent payout, for a total of 100 (one hundred) bitcoins fee to nanotube, and 10000 (ten thousand) bitcoins contingent payout. =Definitions= ==Pirate default== A default will be construed to have occurred, if at any time prior to October 1 2013, 00.01 UTC, BTCST will be late by at least 14 calendar days, in disbursing either any regularly-scheduled interest payment, or any withdrawal request, by a valid account holder of BTCST. ===Verification of default claims=== nanotube will hold in his possession a data set containing hashed usernames and withdrawal addresses of all BTCST account holders, and will be supplied any differences in such table at regular intervals, in case of account closures or creations. A user making a claim must submit to nanotube his BTCST account username, and registered BTCST withdrawal address, as well as any supporting documentation as to the payments that were due but failed to be disbursed. ===Unexpected contingencies=== In the event of any unexpected contingencies not explicitly described in this contract, or any ambiguities, nanotube shall have final discretion in the determination of contract outcome. ===Change in BTCST ToS=== BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days. Such changes may include changes in promised interest rates (as long as interest rates do not go below zero), changes in interest disbursement frequency (not to exceed 1 month intervals), interest tiers, forced withdrawals. Such changes shall not be construed to be a default event. The event of dissolution of the BTCST business and return of all owed funds to all account holders, also shall not be construed as a default event. ==BTCST== BTCST is the business known as "Bitcoin Savings and Trust", currently being operated by pirateat40, with current web address of https://btcst.com/ . -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEARECAAYFAk/3W14ACgkQ5/k4vslVlLK1iwCcC/9DejW57u4Z+bLGnjKseEpN GOEAn0vzfaCUYWlkW1mSyRRyRxsVpkmc =CoVk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dooglus on July 24, 2012, 10:22:36 PM The October bet is something else. (see my sig) The 5000 BTC bet was for October 2013. See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.msg1013612#msg1013612 You're talking about the futures bet, 50 BTC at $11 each, but that's October 2012 and is entirely different. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 24, 2012, 10:24:16 PM Is this in trading discussion because Pirate is opening the doors to public deposits starting August
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90327.msg1048502#msg1048502 Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: myrkul on July 24, 2012, 10:32:19 PM Wait, so we've got three separate bets going on here? No, apparently I was mistaken: The October bet is something else. (see my sig) The 5000 BTC bet was for October 2013. See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.msg1013612#msg1013612 You're talking about the futures bet, 50 BTC at $11 each, but that's October 2012 and is entirely different. All the same, Based on the OP, I'd wager Pirate's going to end his deal, one way or the other, on August 14th. If the meetup is on the 13th (sorry, I can't remember), then that would indicate that Pirate wants out of his bet before then. The only reason I can think of is that he predicts that he will run out of money around that time. Or, he could just be being nice, and offering a way for Van to save face. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 24, 2012, 10:34:56 PM Seems like he can't be sure how confident the Bitcoin community will be to invest in him when he lifts the referral requirement. There are a lot of gamblers out there, but how many will go direct rather than use a pass through?
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Raoul Duke on July 24, 2012, 10:37:40 PM BS&T was opening to the public on August 1st. It is now opening to the public on August 13th. In fact the referral requirement was lifted yesterday and you can already open an account. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: rjk on July 24, 2012, 10:40:22 PM What am I missing here, wasn't the bet slated to end in October?
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 24, 2012, 10:41:07 PM BS&T was opening to the public on August 1st. It is now opening to the public on August 13th. In fact the referral requirement was lifted yesterday and you can already open an account. Curiouser and curiouser 1st -> 13th -> apparently yesterday Funding problems? Reading his news post: he's lifted the referral requirement but, according to that post, trust (interest payment?) status won't occur until the 13th Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: elux on July 24, 2012, 11:12:52 PM BS&T was opening to the public on August 1st. It is now opening to the public on August 13th. In fact the referral requirement was lifted yesterday and you can already open an account. Curiouser and curiouser 1st -> 13th -> apparently yesterday Funding problems? Plank or Keelhaul? I think not. The pirate is hoist with his own petard. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 24, 2012, 11:25:16 PM Literally the only way Van could "chance the outcome of Aug 14th" is if BS&T is completely shutting down on that date. This seems impossible, given that we've seen no signs of Pirate winding down his business. That leaves us with Pirate defaulting on that date. That being said, if you have funds with Pirate, you really shouldn't wait until then to withdraw, as you might be too late. Get out now.
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: myrkul on July 24, 2012, 11:31:41 PM Plank or Keelhaul? I think not. The pirate is hoist with his own petard. This. And this: Get out now. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BTCurious on July 24, 2012, 11:43:23 PM Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: LoweryCBS on July 25, 2012, 12:52:26 AM Well, it's one thing to put money into something I didn't understand. But that thing I didn't understand was paying 7% a week. So I rolled the dice for a while for a not-unsubstantial portion of my BTC holdings.
But now that thing I didn't understand is saying things I don't understand concerning that thing I didn't understand to start with. So in the interest (heh) of a sound night's sleep, I've taken my exposure to BTCST to zero. (Thank you bitcoinmax for an almost instantaneously fulfilled withdrawal request) It's just not worth it. Hope this all turns out in some manner that doesn't harm bitcoin. If the worst thing that happens is that BTC drops to $3, then I'll take that opportunity to back the truck up. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Vandroiy on July 25, 2012, 01:07:22 AM No.
I think the purpose of this thread is to focus attention on the date Aug 14, to make people believe there's still time. The actual topic should be "yesterday's" interest pay-out. It was not a normal, simultaneous pay-out at all. Some coins saw multiple investor addresses on the same day; for example, Bitcoinmax re-investment ended up with the next customer as soon as it returned. Multiple payments look like interest that was sent much later than anticipated. See as an example transaction c9a38ef5482a24575d9ff38cd76aa524a8ec2f498836a2b98f42e352e30874cf -- two simultaneous payments that look like interest, but 23 hours later? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Raoul Duke on July 25, 2012, 01:16:28 AM No. I think the purpose of this thread is to focus attention on the date Aug 14, to make people believe there's still time. The actual topic should be "yesterday's" interest pay-out. It was not a normal, simultaneous pay-out at all. Some coins saw multiple investor addresses on the same day; for example, Bitcoinmax re-investment ended up with the next customer as soon as it returned. Multiple payments look like interest that was sent much later than anticipated. See as an example transaction c9a38ef5482a24575d9ff38cd76aa524a8ec2f498836a2b98f42e352e30874cf -- two simultaneous payments that look like interest, but 23 hours later? hmmm. Those don't look like interest payments at all. Not with such round numbers, sorry. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Littleshop on July 25, 2012, 01:16:50 AM With more then a year left to go in the bet, I think Vandroiy placed a REALLY GOOD BET so long as the escrow is safe. There is no point in talking concession now!
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Vandroiy on July 25, 2012, 01:19:41 AM hmmm. Those don't look like interest payments at all. Not with such round numbers, sorry. The same round number came one week earlier, on the exact block that paid other accounts. Also, 1400 is 7% of a non-compunding account with 20k paper coins in it, and non-compunding people might just choose round numbers. Check out Block 189342 and how well that payment was synchronized on all of the accounts in question! Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Raoul Duke on July 25, 2012, 01:32:44 AM OK. I checked it and yes, it does look like it.
Now, only the recipient of the delayed funds or pirate can answer why 23hrs late, but I'm not seeing why would they. You can only guess. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: CoinCidental on July 25, 2012, 02:14:15 AM No. I think the purpose of this thread is to focus attention on the date Aug 14, to make people believe there's still time. The actual topic should be "yesterday's" interest pay-out. It was not a normal, simultaneous pay-out at all. Some coins saw multiple investor addresses on the same day; for example, Bitcoinmax re-investment ended up with the next customer as soon as it returned. Multiple payments look like interest that was sent much later than anticipated. See as an example transaction c9a38ef5482a24575d9ff38cd76aa524a8ec2f498836a2b98f42e352e30874cf -- two simultaneous payments that look like interest, but 23 hours later? from what i understand bitcoinmax is not run by pirate himself so those coins would have went into the personal wallet of pay.btc first if someone wants a withdrawl of 100 BTC at the same time as someone else is investing 100BTC ,it wouldnt make sense for payb.tc to upload the first 100 BTC from the investor and then download another 100 btc to pay the withdrawl it makes sense to give 100 coins that just arrived in the personal wallet to the person that wants to take out 100 coins rather than pointlessly run it all through the btcst account just to take it out again immediately ......unless im missing something Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: simonk83 on July 25, 2012, 02:45:27 AM chance the outcome of Aug 14th.[/b] Wait, what's happening Aug 14th? I know you're opening up to the public (or already have), but how does that affect the Oct 2013 end time of the bet? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: myrkul on July 25, 2012, 02:50:16 AM chance the outcome of Aug 14th. Wait, what's happening Aug 14th? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal#Final_weeks Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: simonk83 on July 25, 2012, 02:51:24 AM chance the outcome of Aug 14th. Wait, what's happening Aug 14th? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal#Final_weeks Yeah, that doesn't really answer my question. I'm not into all this conspiracy theory nonsense. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: myrkul on July 25, 2012, 02:54:09 AM chance the outcome of Aug 14th. Wait, what's happening Aug 14th? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal#Final_weeks Yeah, that doesn't really answer my question. I'm not into all this conspiracy theory nonsense. It's not a conspiracy theory to say "It's a ponzi, it's going to fall apart at or shortly after that date." Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: simonk83 on July 25, 2012, 02:55:04 AM chance the outcome of Aug 14th. Wait, what's happening Aug 14th? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal#Final_weeks Yeah, that doesn't really answer my question. I'm not into all this conspiracy theory nonsense. It's not a conspiracy theory to say "It's a ponzi, it's going to fall apart at or shortly after that date." Fine, baseless speculation then :D Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't, I'm not really interested in getting into that (again). Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BoardGameCoin on July 25, 2012, 03:01:57 AM I would just like to urge caution to anyone who may be taken for a ride by pirateat40 and who has the belief that they have security because they've 'doxed' him.
Please realize that it's relatively trivial for someone playing a long con to use another person's identity. Consequently: don't do anything rash. Please act through the authorities or at the very least act under the assumption that you don't know where the real culprit is. 'Trendon Shavers' or whatever your dox results are is just the starting point. If he is also a particularly stupid con man, he's your endpoint too... but I doubts it. -bgc Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: myrkul on July 25, 2012, 03:11:44 AM chance the outcome of Aug 14th. Wait, what's happening Aug 14th? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal#Final_weeks Yeah, that doesn't really answer my question. I'm not into all this conspiracy theory nonsense. It's not a conspiracy theory to say "It's a ponzi, it's going to fall apart at or shortly after that date." Fine, baseless speculation then :D Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't, I'm not really interested in getting into that (again). Not entirely baseless. Read the article, especially the "Red flags" portion. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, it's not a platypus. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: copumpkin on July 25, 2012, 03:55:37 AM Not entirely baseless. Read the article, especially the "Red flags" portion. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, it's not a platypus. Yeah, probably one of these: https://i.imgur.com/rpAgq.jpg Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: OgNasty on July 25, 2012, 04:22:15 AM I bought a GPU from pirate once... The package came from PA and not TX.
EDIT: pirateat40 has cashed out our BTC and is going to bet it all on RED at the tables in Vegas. Good luck to us all. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: CoinCidental on July 25, 2012, 04:38:15 AM I bought a GPU from pirate once... The package came from PA and not TX. ever hear of drop shipping ? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: OgNasty on July 25, 2012, 04:40:17 AM ever hear of drop shipping ? http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/35a/335/272/resized/creepy-willy-wonka-meme-generator-oh-really-now-tell-me-more-38d49d.jpg Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: CoinCidental on July 25, 2012, 05:26:03 AM i bought some cuban cigars from pirate once ,but they came from ..........aww shit ! :)
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Vandroiy on July 25, 2012, 08:20:33 AM from what i understand bitcoinmax is not run by pirate himself so those coins would have went into the personal wallet of pay.btc first if someone wants a withdrawl of 100 BTC at the same time as someone else is investing 100BTC ,it wouldnt make sense for payb.tc to upload the first 100 BTC from the investor and then download another 100 btc to pay the withdrawl it makes sense to give 100 coins that just arrived in the personal wallet to the person that wants to take out 100 coins rather than pointlessly run it all through the btcst account just to take it out again immediately ......unless im missing something You're missing that most people re-invest. 5k coins in this case. Bitcoinmax knew the rough amount of re-investments beforehand, maybe they have a feature for it. It sent that fraction back right after the 7% interest payment arrived. Look at the block chain and try to understand for yourselves. Bitcoinmax pay-out target: 19kEo3qmuUdAQb1Q7VZhRwahw5v3NSZCeW, other large BS&T client: 131YyEEz7wYMMuS6Qk4gMnEs2SgtqJ2GTE, potential Bitcoinmax deposit: 1FmC6gUV1tkT7HHmQzo3NwtgZs3WGSz4Rd Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: RoloTonyBrownTown on July 25, 2012, 08:31:24 AM potential Uh-huh. So which option will you be choosing? :) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Vandroiy on July 25, 2012, 09:08:04 AM Uh-huh. So which option will you be choosing? :) It's Bitcoinmax deposit. Confirmed by someone who actually used them. Besides, if you have any other explanation that even remotely makes sense, go ahead. If you're talking about "options" of this thread, you can't be serious. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: RoloTonyBrownTown on July 25, 2012, 09:10:44 AM So it's option 3, random assumptions and hope for the best. Good choice :)
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: mp420 on July 25, 2012, 10:51:47 AM I would just like to urge caution to anyone who may be taken for a ride by pirateat40 and who has the belief that they have security because they've 'doxed' him. Please realize that it's relatively trivial for someone playing a long con to use another person's identity. Consequently: don't do anything rash. Please act through the authorities or at the very least act under the assumption that you don't know where the real culprit is. 'Trendon Shavers' or whatever your dox results are is just the starting point. If he is also a particularly stupid con man, he's your endpoint too... but I doubts it. Exactly. There are even darknet forums dedicated to identity theft and identity trading. Even if you've seen him face to face and he's shown a real passport with a photo that matches his face, it does not mean he is who he says he is. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 25, 2012, 01:50:07 PM I would just like to urge caution to anyone who may be taken for a ride by pirateat40 and who has the belief that they have security because they've 'doxed' him. Exactly this. I've been saying this for a long time: nobody actually knows who Pirate is. There are many people who say that they've met him/slept with his sister and claim that it's trivial to identify him, but I highly suspect that they were either lying for their own purposes, were paid off by Pirate, or misled by Pirate - potentially a professional conman - with fraudulent documents, or a combination of all three (i.e. they were willing to say they met him after they saw the documents and Pirate paid them to make it sound like they know Pirate more than they really do).Please realize that it's relatively trivial for someone playing a long con to use another person's identity. Consequently: don't do anything rash. Please act through the authorities or at the very least act under the assumption that you don't know where the real culprit is. 'Trendon Shavers' or whatever your dox results are is just the starting point. If he is also a particularly stupid con man, he's your endpoint too... but I doubts it. -bgc Absolutely no dox have been posted for public scrutiny at any time. Additionally, the fact that he avoids using MtGox tells me that he's not actually Level 3 verified as he claims to be. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: copumpkin on July 25, 2012, 02:22:31 PM There are many people who say that they've met him/slept with his sister and claim that it's trivial to identify him, but I highly suspect that they were either lying for their own purposes, were paid off by Pirate, or misled by Pirate - potentially a professional conman - with fraudulent documents, or a combination of all three (i.e. they were willing to say they met him after they saw the documents and Pirate paid them to make it sound like they know Pirate more than they really do). ಠ_ಠ. In other news, McMaged suspects you (yes, you!) of secretly being a pedophile who tortures children for fun. Prove him wrong! But seriously, did you really just say that? I'm the one who was "claiming to have slept with his sister", but that was a long-running joke and who the hell thought that was anything but humor? He's openly admitted (on IRC at least) that he doesn't even have a sister. Please tell me: who has actually, seriously claimed to have met him? The paranoia here borders on a full-fledged witch hunt, wherein you (and many others) see anyone who criticizes the weak arguments you have against him as being paid off by him or dishonest. That is ridiculous. If he admitted to me he was a Ponzi, or I had serious doubts about his honesty, I would not be lending him money. I may be stupid for trusting him, but I'm not dishonest, and I don't see why you'd assume his other lenders are either. Now, step back a moment. Consider the evidence you have against him. Yes, his claimed returns are unrealistic. Yes, it "looks like a Ponzi", and it may well be one (I've openly admitted this in all my "rebuttals" of people's weak arguments against him). Now consider what it would take to convince you otherwise. If this were anywhere but a pseudonymous internet, would you go around telling people it was a Ponzi? No, of course not, because you'd probably get sued for defamation/slander/libel (whichever one is relevant to the particular flavor you're going for), and you'd actually have to do this face-to-face, which takes something more than an internet tough-guy persona. Now, because this is a forum and everyone loves to be opinionated, right, and rides the highest horse in town ("I'm doing it for the good of Bitcoin itself! No cognitive dissonance here at all!"), anyone remotely associated with him is out to screw everyone else? Get a grip, all of you. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: rjk on July 25, 2012, 02:24:22 PM So, I'm assuming that anyone concerned with his identity will be meeting him in Vegas, yes?
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 25, 2012, 02:34:09 PM So, I'm assuming that anyone concerned with his identity will be meeting him in Vegas, yes? What exactly would that prove? He is human? I mean IF (and I don't have a horse in this race one way or another) this is a scam we are talking about a million dollar scam and probably a pro. For a couple grand (a rounding error on the fraud) one could get birth cert, driver's license, and passport in the name Earl Scrooge McPirateDuck Jr. For a couple grand more you could get a complete back history with matching records for schools, prior employment, credit cards, and all the social media sites to create an entire convincing backstory. Seeing someone in person on a 1,000 BTC loan has some value. It is all about risk/cost vs reward. When the reward is millions of dollars unless you plan on hiring a investigating firm and spending tens of thousands of your own dollars any sel-help "due diligence" is going to come up short. Now pirate may be running a legit operation (I don't know/care) but if so then what is keeping the "investors" from losing money is simply blind luck not any skill or due diligence. I think people are assuming the kind of due diligence that reduces the risk on a 100 BTC has any value in a potential multi million dollar scam. It doesn't. Hell you could get a DNA sample from "pirate" only to learn later that the "pirate" you met was simply some actor who lives in Vegas who was paid $10K to play a role for the day. Once again before someone says proof this, or you can't prove that ... I DON'T GIVE A FLYING CRAP IF PIRATE IS A SCAMMER OR THE BEST BUSINESSMAN THAT BITCOIN HAS EVER SEEN. It doesn't matter. The reality is IF this is a scam/ponzi/fraud the victims are playing against someone way out of their league. Like peewee soccer vs. world cup champs. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: CoinCidental on July 25, 2012, 02:36:53 PM So, I'm assuming that anyone concerned with his identity will be meeting him in Vegas, yes? assuming he goes to vegas ..... assuming he brings real ID ......(fake passports and drivers licences available everywhere thesedays ) even someone verifys they know him since childhood etc ........still doesnt mean he couldnt split with the cash or even stay put and say he was hacked and some keylogger cleaned him out so tough shit everyone hopefully not though...... :) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 25, 2012, 02:42:01 PM Actually, I'd be willing to publicly state it was most likely a ponzi or some other shaky scheme. Free speech, use it, love it. That way I can point to my statements with very little sympathy for anyone whining about how he "stole" their money. Plenty of funds and people fed their clients into Madoff and that Texas guys schemes. Doesn't mean they are in the know or anything, but it is definitely not looking out for the best interests of client money. IMO, if it is indeed hollow it would be very foolish to join in at the invite everybody to invest stage.
Now, step back a moment. Consider the evidence you have against him. Yes, his claimed returns are unrealistic. Yes, it "looks like a Ponzi", and it may well be one (I've openly admitted this in all my "rebuttals" of people's weak arguments against him). Now consider what it would take to convince you otherwise. If this were anywhere but a pseudonymous internet, would you go around telling people it was a Ponzi? No, of course not, because you'd probably get sued for defamation/slander/libel (whichever one is relevant to the particular flavor you're going for), and you'd actually have to do this face-to-face, which takes something more than an internet tough-guy persona. Now, because this is a forum and everyone loves to be opinionated, right, and rides the highest horse in town ("I'm doing it for the good of Bitcoin itself! No cognitive dissonance here at all!"), anyone remotely associated with him is out to screw everyone else? Get a fucking grip, all of you. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 25, 2012, 03:08:49 PM I would point out you likely would not be sued for defamation. At least not in the US. Most people don't realize how (almost impossibly) difficult it is to win a defamation/slander suit in the SU.
The first amendment has (somehow despite the slow erosion of liberties) managed to keep the burden of proof very high. Generally speaking (although statutes vary by state):
The burden is very high. Plenty of people accuse other people of running Ponzi and don't get sued. Hell some investment brokers accused Madoff of running a ponzi for YEARS before the ponzi broke. Proving all four elements is extremely difficult even in the best circumstances. It is possible that defamation actually occurred and yet it simply can't be proven. I am not saying the plantiff's lawyer did a bad job, I am saing it simply not possible to prove defamation in all cases. The Supreme Court ruled that while the high burden will allow unanswerable accusations to do otherwise would have a "chilling effect" on free speech. Even then there are interesting carve outs like the Small Penis Rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_penis_rule). Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 25, 2012, 03:36:15 PM A bit of snark in my comment but the point is I have no emotional attachment to people who may be treating Pirate's operation as an actual investment. If a friend was going to put money in I'd say "Dude, it's a scam. That better be just be your beer money you are throwing away. Also, you're an idiot." If he was getting in on the ground floor as one of the first in and banking on being used as a marketing tool in exchange for nice profits, replace "Also, you're an idiot." with "you know better, man, that's cold".
Since this is not the case, I just give my viewpoint. I have no inside man on the operation so I can't say with absolute certainty what kind of risky venture it is: Ponzi, Money Laundering, Loan Sharking, Pass-through operation for some other scam entirely. Instead, I like many others will say don't put in money it would pain you to lose. It's like internet gambling, http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/03/us-poker-fraud-arrest-idUSBRE86200S20120703 IMO, the SEC would do a better job of breaking up more of these swindles if they had an emotional attachment to the people being suckered. Instead they filed away Madoff evidence and kept browsing porn sites. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 25, 2012, 04:11:02 PM I'm the one who was "claiming to have slept with his sister", but that was a long-running joke and who the hell thought that was anything but humor? He's openly admitted (on IRC at least) that he doesn't even have a sister. Please tell me: who has actually, seriously claimed to have met him? Far too many people. Enough for you to have qualified for a scammer tag when this all collapsed and you proved not to actually know his identity. I've always figured that it was a joke, but given that nobody else has identified him at the time and the fact that you took it way too far, it seemed to be true enough. Thanks for coming forward with that.The paranoia here borders on a full-fledged witch hunt, wherein you (and many others) see anyone who criticizes the weak arguments you have against him as being paid off by him or dishonest. Huh? I don't know about some people *cough* Vandroiy *cough*, but I don't see the people that support Pirate as being paid off or dishonest, just ignorant. Luckily, ignorance can be fixed and I'm glad to help. People who say they know Pirate (as of this moment, but maybe not after Vegas), however, are absolutely paid off, dishonest, or being misled, as I have just shown. That is ridiculous. If he admitted to me he was a Ponzi, or I had serious doubts about his honesty, I would not be lending him money. I may be stupid for trusting him, but I'm not dishonest, and I don't see why you'd assume his other lenders are either. You are dishonest, but at least you admitted it before it was too late.Now consider what it would take to convince you otherwise. Sure thing!1) An audit by a respected third party (or two). 2) A series of pictures of Pirate in poses defined by the community with a sign that says "I am Pirateat40, and I am personally currently responsible for X million dollars worth of bitcoins in debt". Sure, he could still hire an actor, but it'd be more expensive thanks to the legal liability that sign will at least appear to carry. At the very least, as someone who isn't personally invested in the venture, those would be the absolute minimum requirements to shut me up, given the current size. My standards started extremely small, and have grown as the venture has grown, so I wouldn't call this unreasonable. If this were anywhere but a pseudonymous internet, would you go around telling people it was a Ponzi? No, of course not, because you'd probably get sued for defamation/slander/libel (whichever one is relevant to the particular flavor you're going for), and you'd actually have to do this face-to-face, which takes something more than an internet tough-guy persona. Now, because this is a forum and everyone loves to be opinionated, right, and rides the highest horse in town ("I'm doing it for the good of Bitcoin itself! No cognitive dissonance here at all!"), anyone remotely associated with him is out to screw everyone else? Actually, I totally would. I've consulted a lawyer in the past about my rights when it comes to speech and defamation/slander/libel. Unless the law where I live has changed recently (admittedly, that's quite possible), this is absolutely the case for me:Get a grip, all of you. I would point out you likely would not be sued for defamation. At least not in the US. Most people don't realize how (almost impossibly) difficult it is to win a defamation/slander suit in the SU. The first amendment has (somehow despite the slow erosion of liberties) managed to keep the burden of proof very high. Generally speaking (although statutes vary by state:
The burden is very high. Plenty of people accuse other people of running Ponzi and don't get sued. Hell some investment brokers accused Madoff of running a ponzi for YEARS before the ponzi broke. Proving all four elements is extremely difficult even in the best circumstances. Lots of times people make claims that likely are slander that it would be impossible to prove. Even then there are interesting carve outs like the Small Penis Rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_penis_rule). I have no problem risking getting sued when I truly believe that what I'm saying is right. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: elux on July 25, 2012, 04:25:52 PM Beep beep, this just in from #btcst:
Quote from: pirateat40 17:49 <pirateat40> Hey guys, I have a lot of coins moving around (PPT accounts to BS&T accounts and BS&T to PPT accounts). It's not only causing issues with backend but it's delaying real withdraws to account holders by reducing the funds in my operating wallets. So, if you're moving funds to another account please let me know and I can do the transfer internally to ease the process. Thanks BTCST Default Readyness Condition: CODE ERNIE Quote from: ineededausername 17:52 <ineededausername> Also, I just want to put in a word for pirate: it makes his day much easier if you schedule withdrawals in advance. Please do that so we can avoid queues. All hands on deck! Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 25, 2012, 04:28:25 PM Quote BTCST Default Readyness Condition: CODE ERNIE Worthy of a hard to explain to co-workers LOLZ! Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: copumpkin on July 25, 2012, 04:38:29 PM I'm the one who was "claiming to have slept with his sister", but that was a long-running joke and who the hell thought that was anything but humor? He's openly admitted (on IRC at least) that he doesn't even have a sister. Please tell me: who has actually, seriously claimed to have met him? Far too many people. Enough for you to have qualified for a scammer tag when this all collapsed and you proved not to actually know his identity.You just lost all credibility. Yeah, I'm through with this forum. There is no place for level-headed and informed commentary here. Enjoy the circlejerks and name-calling. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: EnergyVampire on July 25, 2012, 04:53:11 PM I have no opinions on BS&T, Pirateat40, or Vandroiy but....
10,000 BTC donated to a charity of the forums choosing would be great, especially if it's a Bitcoin related project (I'm not sure if these projects qualify). Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 25, 2012, 04:56:36 PM I'm the one who was "claiming to have slept with his sister", but that was a long-running joke and who the hell thought that was anything but humor? He's openly admitted (on IRC at least) that he doesn't even have a sister. Please tell me: who has actually, seriously claimed to have met him? Far too many people. Enough for you to have qualified for a scammer tag when this all collapsed and you proved not to actually know his identity.You just lost all credibility. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: vampire on July 25, 2012, 04:58:10 PM I'm the one who was "claiming to have slept with his sister", but that was a long-running joke and who the hell thought that was anything but humor? He's openly admitted (on IRC at least) that he doesn't even have a sister. Please tell me: who has actually, seriously claimed to have met him? Far too many people. Enough for you to have qualified for a scammer tag when this all collapsed and you proved not to actually know his identity.You just lost all credibility. Maged, do you have the posts by copumkin where he claimed to know pirate? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Frankie on July 25, 2012, 04:59:07 PM So, I'm assuming that anyone concerned with his identity will be meeting him in Vegas, yes? What exactly would that prove? He is human? I mean IF (and I don't have a horse in this race one way or another) this is a scam we are talking about a million dollar scam and probably a pro. For a couple grand (a rounding error on the fraud) one could get birth cert, driver's license, and passport in the name Earl Scrooge McPirateDuck Jr. For a couple grand more you could get a complete back history with matching records for schools, prior employment, credit cards, and all the social media sites to create an entire convincing backstory. Seeing someone in person on a 1,000 BTC loan has some value. It is all about risk/cost vs reward. When the reward is millions of dollars unless you plan on hiring a investigating firm and spending tens of thousands of your own dollars any sel-help "due diligence" is going to come up short. Now pirate may be running a legit operation (I don't know/care) but if so then what is keeping the "investors" from losing money is simply blind luck not any skill or due diligence. I think people are assuming the kind of due diligence that reduces the risk on a 100 BTC has any value in a potential multi million dollar scam. It doesn't. Hell you could get a DNA sample from "pirate" only to learn later that the "pirate" you met was simply some actor who lives in Vegas who was paid $10K to play a role for the day. Once again before someone says proof this, or you can't prove that ... I DON'T GIVE A FLYING CRAP IF PIRATE IS A SCAMMER OR THE BEST BUSINESSMAN THAT BITCOIN HAS EVER SEEN. It doesn't matter. The reality is IF this is a scam/ponzi/fraud the victims are playing against someone way out of their league. Like peewee soccer vs. world cup champs. This is the credited response. Besides, please stop for a moment to consider whether you would even have a case against Pirate? Connecting the carbon-based life form to the screen name, to the person that scammed you is no easy feat. Besides, he's said from the get-go "past performance does not guarantee future results," and he joked about running a Ponzi scheme. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.msg702432#msg702432 In the grand scheme of things, this sort of scam is not an unusual event. Hundreds happen every year, and most are probably larger. This scam happens with any currency with irreversible transactions. http://fc12.ifca.ai/pre-proceedings/paper_27.pdf Interesting article, btw. I believe most of the pro-Pirate people on this forum have been recently cynically promoting him in hopes that they have a seat when the music stops. For those people, I hope you all fall on your asses. Lots of people get away with it, and I would bet Pirate does. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 25, 2012, 05:16:01 PM Yeah, not many people stop to think about it but there is a sweet spot for scammers. Not too little and not too much and then you fall into a gap between the local police and the national enforcement levels.
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Vandroiy on July 25, 2012, 05:16:57 PM [I don't know about some people *cough* Vandroiy *cough*, but I don't see the people that support Pirate as being paid off or dishonest, just ignorant. To be fair, most of the times I mentioned these things, I just wanted to see their reaction. IMO, most of them indeed fall under the category "conveniently ignorant" -- or at least I couldn't tell which it is. Still, changing the reasoning doesn't make the actions any better. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Frankie on July 25, 2012, 05:27:11 PM [I don't know about some people *cough* Vandroiy *cough*, but I don't see the people that support Pirate as being paid off or dishonest, just ignorant. To be fair, most of the times I mentioned these things, I just wanted to see their reaction. IMO, most of them indeed fall under the category "conveniently ignorant" -- or at least I couldn't tell which it is. Still, changing the reasoning doesn't make the actions any better. Yeah, I doubt that anyone was directly paid to say anything. No evidence of that. But consider: when one is invested in a Ponzi, one has an incentive for it to succeed as long as possible--for you to make some money off of it yourself. If one had thousands of coins with the Pirate, you wouldn't say a word against him until your principal is back in your wallet. In fact, you would probably say how brilliant and reliable he was--especially if you had doubts about him. I think this must have happened--not everyone is so stupid. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 25, 2012, 05:31:33 PM It's actually expected behavior around which such schemes are built.
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: CoinCidental on July 25, 2012, 05:53:04 PM It's actually expected behavior around which such schemes are built. it has to be ,people on level 3 of the pyramid are relying on people coming in below them on level 4 to guarantee their interest returns but as already mentioned , these schemes can run for quite sometime (years) before anyone anyone loses anything and by that time the early adopters will have profited nicely ,pirte will have profited hugely and the people on the bottom few levels will probably lose everything and end up with a 0 balance If pirate can convince people not to take to withdraw in Vegas ,or somehow inspire more confidence in investors to let the interest compound (appeal to their greedy side ) then it could possibly keep paying out for awhile but nobody will know exactly when disaster is imminent except pirate since its not exactly a transparent operation..... Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: guruvan on July 25, 2012, 06:03:47 PM I'm the one who was "claiming to have slept with his sister", but that was a long-running joke and who the hell thought that was anything but humor? He's openly admitted (on IRC at least) that he doesn't even have a sister. Please tell me: who has actually, seriously claimed to have met him? Far too many people. Enough for you to have qualified for a scammer tag when this all collapsed and you proved not to actually know his identity.You just lost all credibility. Yeah, I'm through with this forum. There is no place for level-headed and informed commentary here. Enjoy the circlejerks and name-calling. Really, Maged lost credibility when defending bitcoinica people despite mountains of evidence that they were deceitful, if not outright lying, stealing, and scamming. Now, despite there is no evidence that pirate is lying, scamming, or stealing (only conjecture that those MIGHT happen) Maged is trying to suggest that a joke = a scam. That, in turn, invalidates most, if not all, of Maged's judgements. By that logic, this forum is a scam, because it's certainly become a joke. After watching all the mods not do shit while BitcoinExpress threatens attacks on litecoin, I seriously don't know how anyone can take anything that mods here say or do seriously. Seems to come down to protecting friends, and letting enemies hang. It's because of statements like the above from Maged that I no longer accept forum PMs - I'm certainly not going to let very partial judges judge me or any of my actions. They have shown themselves top be utterly incompetent at that, and completely biased (thus the incompetence) At this point, Maged is one of the top people on my "do not trust" list. The true scam is moderating this forum. They use it for their own personal gain, and to support their personal friends. And they expect that we should listen to their judgements about who is or is not a scammer? Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Pathetic. Theymos, you should clean house. This forum and its staff are quickly losing any credibility you had collectively. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: nimda on July 25, 2012, 06:16:06 PM Didn't Charles Ponzi successfully sue for libel?
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: 2112 on July 25, 2012, 06:59:14 PM investments or loans on GLBTSE, the forum, or -otc. Why mixing the "Transgendered" in? It is GLBSE. Do you have a key on your keyboard that types in "GLBT"? ;DTitle: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BrightAnarchist on July 25, 2012, 07:06:02 PM investments or loans on GLBTSE, the forum, or -otc. Why mixing the "Transgendered" in? It is GLBSE. Do you have a key on your keyboard that types in "GLBT"? ;DFor the funny :P Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: PatrickHarnett on July 25, 2012, 07:21:39 PM Reading for interest. As an observation, I know more about Pirate than Maged. (Pirate's name, address, phone number, age, family and that's from the other side of the world - Hunted it up back in April, wasn't hard)
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Hecate on July 25, 2012, 07:23:51 PM It is one of my bad habits, but when pirate defaults i will not pity anyone that lost money in this. The warning signs were big and plentiful. If someone is incapable of realizing the dangers, so be it. In case there are complaints, i might even start laughing. Sorry in advance ;)
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 25, 2012, 07:30:39 PM Hunted it up back in April, wasn't hard Why does everyone say that, but then never reveal anything?Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: jamesg on July 25, 2012, 07:34:44 PM Hunted it up back in April, wasn't hard Why does everyone say that, but then never reveal anything?Who exactly is "everyone"? I would say that PatrickHarnett is one of the most respected and trusted members of this forum. If he says he has the information, it's more than enough for me. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: rjk on July 25, 2012, 07:37:48 PM Hunted it up back in April, wasn't hard Why does everyone say that, but then never reveal anything?EDIT: I should make it clear that I would support sharing relevant information among trusted investors, but I don't find it necessary to post everything publicly. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Frankie on July 25, 2012, 07:42:45 PM Hunted it up back in April, wasn't hard Why does everyone say that, but then never reveal anything?I think it is a bare minimum expectation that one would try to do due diligence on an investment, no? Is it normal to give someone hundreds of dollars without knowing who they are? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: elux on July 25, 2012, 08:18:27 PM Is it normal to dox someone without them having provably committed a crime or tort? Well, do you know a lot of non-criminal/covert organizations that don't reveal personal information about their key personnel? Today: "The shadowy CEO of Microsoft, previously only known to the public as "The Dancing Monkey" has been revealed to be Harvard dropout Steve Ballmer. Documents leaked on the internet conclusively proves his identity. Microsoft officially declined inquiries into the matter, stating only that the identity of "The Monkey" has long been known to insiders, and that people should mind their own damn business." Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: PatrickHarnett on July 25, 2012, 08:19:57 PM Hunted it up back in April, wasn't hard Why does everyone say that, but then never reveal anything?Because I know how to hold confidential information confidential. my business is built on trust, and the work I'm doing in the lending section means that I hold sensitive information about other lending operations. I'm not about to blab a whole lot of private details about people. However, to spell it out for you - I did a reverse phone number lookup from his domain registrations. It was simple to link Trendon Shavers to the phone number, his family history, and his wife looks nice too. But I wasn't about to spread that information around four months ago because I respect people's privacy (it is now public), and he made no secret of it. Trendon provided a confirmation when I asked him, and that was all. Edit: and yes, it was part of the due diligence I performed. As a counter example, Ripper234 did a lot on me too. He even published it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92279.0 Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 25, 2012, 08:29:34 PM AFAIK, they haven't slapped a scammer tag on Pirate nor the Bitcoinica people. So in terms of actual forum moderation they're on equal footing for now.
Really, Maged lost credibility when defending bitcoinica people despite mountains of evidence that they were deceitful, if not outright lying, stealing, and scamming. Now, despite there is no evidence that pirate is lying, scamming, or stealing (only conjecture that those MIGHT happen) Maged is trying to suggest that a joke = a scam. That, in turn, invalidates most, if not all, of Maged's judgements. By that logic, this forum is a scam, because it's certainly become a joke. After watching all the mods not do shit while BitcoinExpress threatens attacks on litecoin, I seriously don't know how anyone can take anything that mods here say or do seriously. Seems to come down to protecting friends, and letting enemies hang. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 25, 2012, 08:59:38 PM Hunted it up back in April, wasn't hard Why does everyone say that, but then never reveal anything?Because I know how to hold confidential information confidential. my business is built on trust, and the work I'm doing in the lending section means that I hold sensitive information about other lending operations. I'm not about to blab a whole lot of private details about people. However, to spell it out for you - I did a reverse phone number lookup from his domain registrations. It was simple to link Trendon Shavers to the phone number, his family history, and his wife looks nice too. But I wasn't about to spread that information around four months ago because I respect people's privacy (it is now public), and he made no secret of it. Trendon provided a confirmation when I asked him, and that was all. Edit: and yes, it was part of the due diligence I performed. As a counter example, Ripper234 did a lot on me too. He even published it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92279.0 Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: PatrickHarnett on July 25, 2012, 09:07:41 PM Oh, good. I'm glad to hear it. I just hope that you weren't misled with planted information, of which there is potentially plenty. For example, did you know that you don't have to verify your identity to form a LLC in Texas? As I said to Ripper234, I am the fake patrickharnett. (that was simply to prove the point you couldn't prove the point) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Tomatocage on July 25, 2012, 09:33:01 PM Oh, good. I'm glad to hear it. I just hope that you weren't misled with planted information, of which there is potentially plenty. For example, did you know that you don't have to verify your identity to form a LLC in Texas? I doubt he "planted" those traffic violations on his record, not to mention other regulatory infractions back in the 80s and 90s all in an elaborate plot that leads up to BCTST. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 25, 2012, 09:34:33 PM Oh, good. I'm glad to hear it. I just hope that you weren't misled with planted information, of which there is potentially plenty. For example, did you know that you don't have to verify your identity to form a LLC in Texas? As I said to Ripper234, I am the fake patrickharnett. (that was simply to prove the point you couldn't prove the point) I'll also get the chance to finally apologize to Pirate pretty soon, too, since he claims that he can prove that he's won the bet. Honestly, I really do hope that Pirate is legitimate, from the bottom of my heart. I'm just afraid of what will happen if there's a million dollar heist pulled by Pirate. Oh, good. I'm glad to hear it. I just hope that you weren't misled with planted information, of which there is potentially plenty. For example, did you know that you don't have to verify your identity to form a LLC in Texas? I doubt he "planted" those traffic violations on his record, not to mention other regulatory infractions back in the 80s and 90s all in an elaborate plot that leads up to BCTST. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: wachtwoord on July 25, 2012, 09:37:53 PM While we are on the subject: who the hell is Art Taylor? http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x067508A49BBE0E8216A61A94614DB74CFA5B357E (Pirate's OTC PGP fingerprint). ARt Taylor is a real person too btw ...
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: DeathAndTaxes on July 25, 2012, 09:58:55 PM While we are on the subject: who the hell is Art Taylor? http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x067508A49BBE0E8216A61A94614DB74CFA5B357E (Pirate's OTC PGP fingerprint). ARt Taylor is a real person too btw ... He signed Pirate key as valid. Technically this should only be done by someone who absolutely knows Pirate and knows the key presented as Pirate's key IS pirate's key. That being said many people sign other people's keys for just about any reason including "it keeps warning me the key is unsigned so I signed it to make the warning go away". It doesn't really mean or prove anything. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: wachtwoord on July 26, 2012, 04:22:27 PM Yeah right after my post I got a PM it's you Reese (kinda stupid of me, so tell me: did you change your Twitter name or am I just blind? :P)
Which brings up the question: Do you know Trendon Shavers personally? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 26, 2012, 07:19:40 PM After the dumbass threats regarding copumpkin joking about, umm, pumping pirate kin, I choose neither to confirm nor to deny anything related to that topic. Again, it's only a problem if you clearly lie. If you were misled into believing something, that's fine. Just don't lie about facts.Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Coinoisseur on July 26, 2012, 10:31:40 PM Maged is the one that needs to clarify, but I read it as found to be lying in relations to backing a scam operation. Of course the scam has to be exposed first.
After the dumbass threats regarding copumpkin joking about, umm, pumping pirate kin, I choose neither to confirm nor to deny anything related to that topic. Again, it's only a problem if you clearly lie. If you were misled into believing something, that's fine. Just don't lie about facts.Bullshit. You'd have scammer tags on 90% of the people on any forum. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 27, 2012, 08:00:12 AM Maged is the one that needs to clarify, but I read it as found to be lying in relations to backing a scam operation. Of course the scam has to be exposed first. Yup, the scam has to be exposed AND you had to clearly *lie* about a fact (opinions are fine no matter what) that could cause a reasonable person to think something is safer than it really was AND said people need to make a specific claim that they thought that they could trust what you said AND your statement was a deciding factor in investing (or whatever the situation is) AND the investigator believes the person when they said that your false fact was an important deciding factor.After the dumbass threats regarding copumpkin joking about, umm, pumping pirate kin, I choose neither to confirm nor to deny anything related to that topic. Again, it's only a problem if you clearly lie. If you were misled into believing something, that's fine. Just don't lie about facts.Bullshit. You'd have scammer tags on 90% of the people on any forum. For example: What you can do: If you've traded with a person, you can publicly vouch for them saying that you never had any problems with them. You can also provide your analysis of a person by saying something like "I think x is a pretty good guy based on their post history". If you've been given someone's address, you can say "I know where he lives, don't worry about it", even if the address is false. If you've truly met someone, you can say "I've met him, he's a pretty upstanding guy". What you can't do: If you've never traded with someone, you can't publicly say that you've traded with them before. Again, if you've never traded with someone, you also can't say that someone scammed you (specifically, not anyone in general - you can still claim that someone is a scammer, just not that they scammed you). If you don't have any information AT ALL about who they are or where they live (not even a lie that they provided you, but actually nothing at all), you can't claim to personally know that information (but if you think you know someone who might know that information, you can absolutely say that you think you know someone who knows that information). If you've never met someone/slept with their sister, you can't claim to have done those things. As you can see, this is really quite reasonable. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Frankie on July 27, 2012, 04:56:20 PM So the deadline for, uh, something passed last night at 5 PM CST.
Wait a second, "CST"? This is a clue that Pirate is posting from the Central time zone... From the FUTURE, when CST applies. I've figured out how he does it! Pirate is engaging in temporal arbitrage by sending his coins to the future when they are more valuable and sending fiat back in time. He finally slipped up! Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 27, 2012, 05:21:17 PM So the deadline for, uh, something passed last night at 5 PM CST. Yup. I suppose I might as well tell you guys what that is.There's something called the "Vegas Bonus" going on this weekend. All account holders with over 5k BTC as of Wednesday at 6 PM CT qualify. Any amount you add between Wednesday at 6 PM CT and Sunday at same time will be given a 1% bonus. You can guess what my thoughts are on this, so I won't bother. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Frankie on July 27, 2012, 05:32:41 PM I assume that means th Pirate is very generous. In spite of running a putatively profitable business for nine months, he's not gotten greedy and in fact wants to give even more to most loyal customers. I'm sure that they will be handsomely rewarded for it.
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dooglus on July 27, 2012, 06:33:36 PM So the deadline for, uh, something passed last night at 5 PM CST. Yup. I suppose I might as well tell you guys what that is.There's something called the "Vegas Bonus" going on this weekend. All account holders with over 5k BTC as of Wednesday at 6 PM CT qualify. Any amount you add between Wednesday at 6 PM CT and Sunday at same time will be given a 1% bonus. You can guess what my thoughts are on this, so I won't bother. I think Frankie was referring to this deadline: Vandroiy has the following (2) options to choose from:
Vandroiy has until Thursday at 5:00PM CST to make his decision. I don't see how that is connected to a 1% bonus for BS&T lenders, since Vandroiy isn't a lender. And I think he ended up selecting special secret option three (3):
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: CoinCidental on July 27, 2012, 08:07:46 PM So the deadline for, uh, something passed last night at 5 PM CST. Yup. I suppose I might as well tell you guys what that is.There's something called the "Vegas Bonus" going on this weekend. All account holders with over 5k BTC as of Wednesday at 6 PM CT qualify. Any amount you add between Wednesday at 6 PM CT and Sunday at same time will be given a 1% bonus. You can guess what my thoughts are on this, so I won't bother. I think Frankie was referring to this deadline: Vandroiy has the following (2) options to choose from:
Vandroiy has until Thursday at 5:00PM CST to make his decision. I don't see how that is connected to a 1% bonus for BS&T lenders, since Vandroiy isn't a lender. And I think he ended up selecting special secret option three (3):
If the Investment is returning poorly ,Can Pirate lower the interest rates to say 3-5% weekly and still win this bet ? or would that be a automatic win for vandroiy if it doesnt stay at 6.9 or 7% until october? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BoardGameCoin on July 27, 2012, 08:15:38 PM If the Investment is returning poorly ,Can Pirate lower the interest rates to say 3-5% weekly and still win this bet ? or would that be a automatic win for vandroiy if it doesnt stay at 6.9 or 7% until october? That would be a win for pirate... as long as he can continue to meet the forward looking targets he sets and does not default on any principal. However, if it is a ponzi (my belief), then it is already impossible for pirate to pay back all of the principal invested. -bgc Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dooglus on July 27, 2012, 08:17:38 PM If the Investment is returning poorly ,Can Pirate lower the interest rates to say 3-5% weekly and still win this bet ? or would that be a automatic win for vandroiy if it doesnt stay at 6.9 or 7% until october? Pirate can change the interest rates so long as he gives notice, and doesn't reduce them to below 0%. This is a quote from the contract both parties signed: ===Change in BTCST ToS=== BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days. Such changes may include changes in promised interest rates (as long as interest rates do not go below zero), changes in interest disbursement frequency (not to exceed 1 month intervals), interest tiers, forced withdrawals. Such changes shall not be construed to be a default event. The event of dissolution of the BTCST business and return of all owed funds to all account holders, also shall not be construed as a default event. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: RaggedMonk on July 27, 2012, 11:09:00 PM If you've never met someone/slept with their sister, you can't claim to have done those things. I slept with Maged's sister. Couldn't have said it if it wasn't true... ::) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: rjk on July 28, 2012, 03:41:57 PM While we are on the subject: who the hell is Art Taylor? He signed Pirate's key using an email at arttaylor.com, so he's not exactly hard to track down. FWIW, he is the author of the 2011 book "Preparing Your Ecommerce Web Sites for Holiday Peak Seasons".http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B004W3IATE (http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B004W3IATE) He has some ruby code at GitHub, including "Simple Mt. Gox trades websocket script": https://gist.github.com/980399 (https://gist.github.com/980399) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Maged on July 28, 2012, 06:02:29 PM I think Frankie was referring to this deadline: Well, that's when this information was released, so don't complain about its relevance to me.Vandroiy has until Thursday at 5:00PM CST to make his decision. I don't see how that is connected to a 1% bonus for BS&T lenders, since Vandroiy isn't a lender. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: memvola on July 30, 2012, 07:48:58 AM When the reward is millions of dollars unless you plan on hiring a investigating firm and spending tens of thousands of your own dollars any sel-help "due diligence" is going to come up short. Why not just do that? If the risk to the community is millions of dollars, we should be able to come up with a few thousand BTC. That's what "due diligence" rather sounds like in this case. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dlasher on August 18, 2012, 02:54:47 AM With BCS&T dissolving, curious where this thread will go... The way I read this, as long as he repays deposit, he still wins the bet: Quote The event of dissolution of the BTCST business and return of all owed funds to all account holders, also shall not be construed as a default event. sTitle: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: mrb on August 29, 2012, 05:21:10 AM With that said, I simply wouldn't have made the wager unless I knew exactly what the outcome would be. Pirate 0 - Vandroiy 1 Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: myrkul on August 29, 2012, 05:29:04 AM With that said, I simply wouldn't have made the wager unless I knew exactly what the outcome would be. Pirate 0 - Vandroiy 1 So it would appear. Still a few more days before the fecal matter officially strikes the rotary air impeller. Plenty of time to get popcorn (and a tarp). Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: bitlane on August 30, 2012, 05:01:17 PM I'm the one who was "claiming to have slept with his sister", but that was a long-running joke and who the hell thought that was anything but humor? He's openly admitted (on IRC at least) that he doesn't even have a sister. Please tell me: who has actually, seriously claimed to have met him? Far too many people. Enough for you to have qualified for a scammer tag when this all collapsed and you proved not to actually know his identity.You just lost all credibility. How's that credibility thing working out for you reeses ? Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: bitlane on August 31, 2012, 03:08:45 PM CONGRATS TO VANDROIY
You should expect your 10,000 BTC payment within 6 hours of this post. If not, the entire OTC system should be ignored from now on, since it's crap anyway. Please spend it wisely. bitlane. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BTCurious on August 31, 2012, 03:48:00 PM You should expect your 10,000 BTC payment within 6 hours of this post. Aaand back on ignore.If not, the entire OTC system should be ignored from now on, since it's crap anyway. Since Vandroiy is currently traveling, we have agreed via private communication to set up the 10k BTC disbursement of escrowed funds sometime in September, when he is back. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: DeathAndTaxes on September 01, 2012, 12:43:16 AM Since Vandroiy is currently traveling, we have agreed via private communication to set up the 10k BTC disbursement of escrowed funds sometime in September, when he is back. Weird. Vandroiy can't just make an offline wallet, have nanotube send the funds there and verify it via third party tools. His coins not mine but seems strange given the nature of Bitcoin that closing the bet would require waiting. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BTCurious on September 01, 2012, 02:19:47 AM Since Vandroiy is currently traveling, we have agreed via private communication to set up the 10k BTC disbursement of escrowed funds sometime in September, when he is back. Weird. Vandroiy can't just make an offline wallet, have nanotube send the funds there and verify it via third party tools. His coins not mine but seems strange given the nature of Bitcoin that closing the bet would require waiting. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: ErebusBat on September 01, 2012, 03:36:49 AM Since Vandroiy is currently traveling, we have agreed via private communication to set up the 10k BTC disbursement of escrowed funds sometime in September, when he is back. Weird. Vandroiy can't just make an offline wallet, have nanotube send the funds there and verify it via third party tools. His coins not mine but seems strange given the nature of Bitcoin that closing the bet would require waiting. Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dooglus on September 02, 2012, 12:34:25 AM It's about 10kɃ, which is a significant sum. For all I know Vandroiy is in a tent in the rain somewhere. Personally I'd wait until I was back at home as well. I would have provided a payment address at the time of the bet, and had it written into the contract. For 10k BTC it's worth someone hacking the forum software to be able to send a PM as Vandroiy but giving their own deposit address. I don't mind if someone wants to send me 10k BTC while I'm in a tent in the rain. It will be perfectly secure until I get back to civilisation (he writes, from his cabin in the rain in the middle of nowhere...) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: 556j on September 02, 2012, 12:45:28 AM smf is common forum that's pretty tested. SR uses same forum, hack them instead if it's so easy :)
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: ErebusBat on September 02, 2012, 01:03:28 AM It's about 10kɃ, which is a significant sum. For all I know Vandroiy is in a tent in the rain somewhere. Personally I'd wait until I was back at home as well. I would have provided a payment address at the time of the bet, and had it written into the contract. For 10k BTC it's worth someone hacking the forum software to be able to send a PM as Vandroiy but giving their own deposit address. I don't mind if someone wants to send me 10k BTC while I'm in a tent in the rain. It will be perfectly secure until I get back to civilisation (he writes, from his cabin in the rain in the middle of nowhere...) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: Bitcoin Oz on September 02, 2012, 06:21:30 AM Maybe Vandroiy can put up a 5000btc bounty on pirate's capture :)
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: bitlane on September 02, 2012, 06:39:40 AM Maybe Vandroiy can put up a 5000btc bounty on pirate's capture :) I think Vandroiy should give me a cut, since I helped him win (I will settle for 2560 BTC) Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: smoothie on September 06, 2012, 10:28:20 PM Howdy, As most of you know the infamous Vandroiy and myself entered into a wager for 5,000 each (10,000 BTC total). If you missed it, you can check it out here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.0. With the knowledge of what he was up against I must say that I respect Vandroiy’s commitment of following through and placing his money where his mouth is. It’s rarely seen on the Internet and I commend him for it. With that said, I simply wouldn't have made the wager unless I knew exactly what the outcome would be. So the time has come for Vandroiy to make his final decision. Vandroiy has the following (2) options to choose from:
Vandroiy has until Thursday at 5:00PM CST to make his decision. Let the fun begin. -pirate Pirate probably put someone else's money where his mouth is.What a joke of a post. lol Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dree12 on September 08, 2012, 12:21:49 AM Has the outcome of this bet been decided yet? Is the original thread missing, and why?
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: sadpandatech on September 08, 2012, 12:25:49 AM Has the outcome of this bet been decided yet? Is the original thread missing, and why? long time ago. Vandroiy of course won. nope, its there and is linked to in the OP, is it not? This thread was a weasly attempt by Pirate to back out knowing what was coming and the realization that he had actually placed 5k in escrow to cover the bet just sinking in.... YARRRRRRRRRR Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dree12 on September 08, 2012, 12:26:49 AM Has the outcome of this bet been decided yet? Is the original thread missing, and why? long time ago. Vandroiy of course won. nope, its there and is linked to in the OP, is it not? This thread was a weasly attempt by Pirate to back out knowing what was coming and the realization that he had actually placed 5k in escrow to cover the bet just sinking in.... YARRRRRRRRRR Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: sadpandatech on September 08, 2012, 12:31:55 AM Has the outcome of this bet been decided yet? Is the original thread missing, and why? long time ago. Vandroiy of course won. nope, its there and is linked to in the OP, is it not? This thread was a weasly attempt by Pirate to back out knowing what was coming and the realization that he had actually placed 5k in escrow to cover the bet just sinking in.... YARRRRRRRRRR no, read more; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.msg1013589#msg1013589 Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: CoinCidental on September 08, 2012, 05:19:52 AM Has the outcome of this bet been decided yet? Is the original thread missing, and why? This thread was a weasly attempt by Pirate to back out knowing what was coming and the realization that he had actually placed 5k in escrow to cover the bet just sinking in.... YARRRRRRRRRR yes ,it was dirty trick to try and get vandroiy to fold the bet but actually those 5000 coins were BTCST coins until investors get paid in full did pirate personally lose them ? probably not so you can see how easy it was for him to gamble 5k outta of the btcst fund Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: bitcoinBull on September 09, 2012, 05:40:36 AM Not entirely baseless. Read the article, especially the "Red flags" portion. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, it's not a platypus. Yeah, probably one of these: https://i.imgur.com/rpAgq.jpg http://gifsoup.com/view1/1801489/duck-season-o.gif Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: smoothie on December 29, 2012, 12:40:28 AM Howdy, As most of you know the infamous Vandroiy and myself entered into a wager for 5,000 each (10,000 BTC total). If you missed it, you can check it out here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.0. With the knowledge of what he was up against I must say that I respect Vandroiy’s commitment of following through and placing his money where his mouth is. It’s rarely seen on the Internet and I commend him for it. With that said, I simply wouldn't have made the wager unless I knew exactly what the outcome would be. So the time has come for Vandroiy to make his final decision. Vandroiy has the following (2) options to choose from:
Vandroiy has until Thursday at 5:00PM CST to make his decision. Let the fun begin. -pirate lol wat a dumbass... :D :D :D Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: smoothie on December 29, 2012, 12:40:52 AM I am pirateat40 and I approve this message. :o and another dumbass lol ;D Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: BlackBison on January 02, 2013, 01:03:51 PM So was this bet settled without problems? I hope so! ;D
Title: Re: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul Post by: dooglus on January 02, 2013, 08:41:11 PM So was this bet settled without problems? I hope so! ;D Yes it was. They used a trusted escrow. |
