Bitcoin Forum

The four strikes against Bitcoin:

First, Bitcoin mining is illegal.  Do the research, bitcoin mining has all the legal elements of prize, chance, and consideration which makes it a lottery (see for example http://www.blankrome.com/index.cfm?contentID=37&itemID=2300 (http://www.blankrome.com/index.cfm?contentID=37&itemID=2300) ).The mining computers necessary for Bitcoin's ongoing operation are legally no different than networked slot machines under US State laws.    Instead of "three cherries", your mining rig is trying to produce via a random process a "crypto hash" with a set number of continuous zeros.  Hey, who cares that your winning computed crypto "hash" file is no better whatsoever in supporting Bitcoin holders / the blockchain than the trillon trillion other valid crypto hash files calculated and immediately tossed in the trash by losers.  Be the first to calculate a valid crypto "hash" solution that ALSO coincidentally contains an irrelevant bunch of leading zeros and win a prize! Running a bitcoin mining operation in the US as an individual or business entity is an illegal lottery and its proceeds (mined Bitcoins) are subject to confiscation at any time by State Attorney Generals.   Their press release could come at any time...

Second, current bitcoin mining exponential growth is unsustainable.  The key graph at  https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address (https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address) shows that mining Bitcoin currently takes 300,000,000+ GHash / sec of computer power to keep this ponzi scheme going.  Take for example a modern mining rig like a Butterfly Labs Monarch ( http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/ (http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/) ) that costs $850 and uses 490W to produce 700 GH/sec of hash power for mining Bitcoins.  If the entire Bitcoin mining ecosystem were Monarchs (which it isn't, it is a mix of equipment mostly less efficent and already obsolete compared to Monarchs), then there's 300,000,000 / 700 = 428,571 Monarchs out there at an installed infrastructure cost of 428,571 * 850 = $364 million dollars.  This installed base of mining computers currently generate 25 Bitcoins / hit * 6 hits / hour * 24 hours / day = 3600 Bitcoins / day (currently worth $244 each at this writing, see http://coinmarketcap.com (http://coinmarketcap.com) ) for a total of $878,400 per day.  If Bitcoin rates were roughly stable (ha!) this would be around $320 million per year.  The average annual return on a mining rig is thus currently below its average cost so the current Bitcoin mining ASIC arms race and its exponential growth cannot be funded.  That's why the super-mining union CEX.io has already pulled out: http://www.coindesk.com/cloud-mining-suffers-hash-rate-plateaus/ (http://www.coindesk.com/cloud-mining-suffers-hash-rate-plateaus/)

Third, Bitcoin mining is hugely wasteful and inefficent.  There's only 6 * 24 * 365 = 52,560 winners per year in the Bitcoin lottery that injects new coins into the Bitcoin ecosystem (inflation!).  With 500,000+ mining computers out there, 90+% of them will run all year and never get a hit, all the while sucking up at least 500,000 * 850 = 425,000 KWh per hour of electricity.  At 15 cents per KWh average, the current Bitcoin system is burning at least $64,000 per hour / $560 million per year in electricity. 

Finally, Bitcoin mining is unnecessary.  Instead of 500,000+ competing "Proof of Work" (PoW) mining computers in the back room supporting Bitcoin behind the scenes, second-generation cooperative "Proof of Stake" (PoS) cryptocurrencies like the pioneering NXT can field the infrastructure necessary to support a vast population of coin holders with only a tiny network of a few hundred $35 10W Raspberry Pi 2 toy educational computers ( http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-2-on-sale/ (http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-2-on-sale/) ).   Such PoS networks cooperate solely to support coin owners instead of primarily competing for miner prizes, making them far more cost-effective and efficent.   Bitcoin is a dinosaur that cannot evolve to achieve this crucial advantage.

Bottom line: The current Bitcoin system has at least $364 million in sunk infrastructure costs and burns at least $560 million a year in power.  The ONLY source of "income" to support this burden is (1) appreciation of the existing 13.8 million Bitcoins and (2) mining of 1.3 million new Bitcoins per year.  Do the math - these numbers just don't add up to a stable system that's gonna work.

Four strikes, and Bitcoin's out.

Here we go again. Another thread dedicated to FUD.  :)

Facts...(and)...Unwelcome...Data

You are in the wrong section. You should move this to: Development & Technical Discussion.
If you want serious answers, go there.
If you stay here, you are a FUDer.

Thanks for the warning. But I have made a lot of money ignoring warnings like these. You need a better lawyer before giving up so easy.

1. Bitcoin mining is a service not a lottery. Miners work for a living. They are not just scratching off lotto cards. Nor do they pay to play, which is why a lottery is gambling.

2. Bitcoin mining sustains it's self because it can scale up and scale down. It is like gold mining. We know where a lot of gold is that can't be mined because it is unprofitable. If the price goes up, then it will get mined. Same with bitcoin, if it's not profitable then there is too much supply and mining drops off.

3. Your argument is also true of the internet. Unfortunately the universe demands energy for work.

4. I have no interest in weak PoS systems. The market seems to agree.

Bottom line, it is working and continues to grow.

Anyone newbie with a handle like "telleroftruth" is likely entirely dishonest.

Well, your first point is only relevant for the USA.

Bitcoin mining only grows if price goes up, nothing more sustainable than that.

Bitcoin mining is also a distribution system, pretty efficient one.

NXT promotion...

DERP DERP DERP... OMG .. DERP DERP

Hey look every boddy, this guy is so smart! he figured it out!! Where have you been?

PISS OFF

1) The legality of Mining and bitcoin changes from  jurisdiction to Jurisdiction you cannot make a blanket statement like that.  Currently in the US mining is not illegal.

2)  The growth of hashing has nothing to do with the stability and viability of the network as it automatically adjusts to the hash rate.  If the hasrate goes down the ability to use bitcoin in unaffected. Many miners will go out of business the stronger ones will adapt and thrive welcome to capitalism.  Do your homework.

3) Bitcoin does use a lot of electricity I'll give you that.  Cars also use a lot of energy but the benefits  outweigh the costs. Bitcoin if it reaches its potentional will be well worth the cost.  Also miners have a strong incentive to reduce costs and energy usage.  Over time the costs will go down per KW.

4) If there are better ways to transmit value over the internet that a wide number of people adopt then bitcoin will be obsolete and that's a good thing.  But until then bitcoin is here to stay.

I literally stopped reading here. How do you come up with such crap?

lol at this NXT/Stellar bagholder.

just use the "search" function. you will find answers.

i think the OP is mad that a friend of his told him he can make lots of money while remaining in his basement using just his computer  and then scream out that the world is unfair as they can only make 25c a day by trying to blame bitcoin with some illegal practices and flaws that dont exist

usually i am more helpful and tell these people the 50,000 different ways to get hold of bitcoin. but today. im just gonna laugh that the OP's narrow mindedness

Actually, the "service" that miners "do" is legally considered to be the "consideration" part of the lottery known as Bitcoin.


Something that has consumed hundreds of millions of dollars fielding hundreds of thousands of useless computers only to lose 75% of its value in the past 15 months is not "working" or "growing".  It's a burst bubble.

Nope.  I've made my share of profit on Bitcoin.  But I hear the music stopping and I see how few chairs are out there.  Don't you? 


As I shake my head sadly at yours.

If you don't have to pay to get in then it's not a lottery. I suppose you could call it a contest, but there is nothing wagered like a lottery. I doubt any court would find otherwise.

As far as the "burst bubble", I think this is a common confusion about bitcoin. People often seem to think in terms of stocks and investments when thinking about bitcoin. But it is nothing like that. I have made some good money in bond markets and trading stocks. Each trade is really a bet on the business behind the stock offering. Those companies need my money to launch a plan to make more money. That's my return. If they fail to raise enough the price could drop and the company could become insolvent and POP! the bubble bursts and the stock is worthless.

Bitcoin is not a business, there are no mouths to feed, bitcoin does not need money to work. It worked just fine when the price was $0.06, it worked fine when the price was $1000. There is no minimal threshold that is required to keep bitcoin from becoming insolvent.

In short, price is not an indicator of growth. Price is an indicator of supply and demand, adoption shows growth. There are more businesses now than ever accepting bitcoin and the list grows every day. I'm shocked by how quickly it's all happening. Two years ago I could buy alpaca socks and used computer parts with bitcoin. Now I buy whatever I want and no longer use cards on the internet.

~Cheers

Read more than the first two sentences and see.  The references and calculations supporting my claims are clearly stated.

Here is the original intent from the Whitepaper, as to your "Prize" argument.

"6. Incentive
By convention, the first transaction in a block is a special transaction that starts a new coin owned
by the creator of the block. This adds an incentive for nodes to support the network, and provides
a way to initially distribute coins into circulation, since there is no central authority to issue them.
The steady addition of a constant of amount of new coins is analogous to gold miners expending
resources to add gold to circulation. In our case, it is CPU time and electricity that is expended.
The incentive can also be funded with transaction fees. If the output value of a transaction is
less than its input value, the difference is a transaction fee that is added to the incentive value of
the block containing the transaction. Once a predetermined number of coins have entered
circulation, the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees and be completely inflation
free.
The incentive may help encourage nodes to stay honest. If a greedy attacker is able to
assemble more CPU power than all the honest nodes, he would have to choose between using it
to defraud people by stealing back his payments, or using it to generate new coins. He ought to
find it more profitable to play by the rules, such rules that favour him with more new coins than
everyone else combined, than to undermine the system and the validity of his own wealth."
https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf (https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf)

It is a means to secure the network. Not a "prize" or "reward" and that is the end game.
In a lottery, the " "prize" or "reward" is the point. Its a game of chance.
Bitcoin isn't a game of chance, but intended to be a payment network that is still in its early stages.
You are misconstruing Bitcoins intent and objective, in order to fit into gaming law.

You do not understand the legal definition of "consideration" in this context.  You have to pay  to buy the mining computer, and electricity to run it, which is your "entry fee" for the Bitcoin lottery.  The value of that entry fee flows to "Bitcoin" as a "consideration" when you calculate a block to be added to its blockchain - a function vital to the continuation of Bitcoin.  If Bitcoin used every single block generated by all miners, it would be "buying" a "service" and would be a business.  Instead, a random chance function (leading zeros in the block) is used to award a prize to one single block winner every ten minutes.  All other blocks generated by all other losers (which are cryptographically valid but lack the winning zeros) are discarded.  

I know it's uncomfortable to acknowledge that Bitcoin mining is a lottery, but legally it is.  Protests to the contrary, or silence so far on this point from State law enforcement or courts, are irrelevant.   Favorable federal legal rulings so far from IRS or DOJ are also irrelevant, since gaming law is handled on a State level.

So far the States have yet to speak up on this point of law - Bitcoin as an illegal lottery.  It will not be a good day for Bitcoin when they do.

That too from a newbie like everytime.

I agree the intent and objective of mining is to secure the network.  However, you can have noble intent and objective and still be in violation of the law by your choice of method to achieve your objective.  

If you secure the blockchain with the efforts of volunteers who personally pay for a small number of very cheap Raspberry Pi 2 computers that do block crypto computing, and personally receive nothing in return for providing that service other than a civic sense of participation, then you are meeting the law because you are not providing a "prize".

If you offer 50 / 25 / whatever bitcoins every ten minutes that are ultimately intended to be sold off and pay for $350 million in infrastructure, $550 million per year in electricity, and a huge ASIC mining arms race, then you are providing a "prize".  If that prize is distributed by "chance" (ie, your block has X leading zeros, congrats!) then you are running a lottery and you are in violation of US State gaming laws.

Intent and objective are not relevant here, prize is.  Only if miners mine for free without receiving a prize via chance will they be legal.  

You have to understand that the U.S, is not the WORLD. Miners will move out of the US and go elsewhere if what you say is actually true. 
Stick your head out of your small intestine you filthy scum. (Let me guess, you're a lawyer)

I'm not a lawyer, but I think even I could win that argument. Heck, I found this definition in your own link: "Consideration may include a fee, a product purchase requirement, or the requirement that the entrant expend extensive time or effort."

None of the costs you mention could ever be claimed to be a fee for participation in a lottery,IMO. If I enter a free raffle at the church I can't claim that since I had to pay bus fare or buy shoes to get to the church It's gambling. Besides, I do not have to buy a computer to mine, I could have used my game PC. Perhaps electricity is part of my rent? There is no one compelling me to spend a penny and bitcoin is not a legal entity or company.

For me the strongest argument is that you are the only person making this claim. No court has said anything like this nor is there a president you point too. I have spoken to multiple accountants with experience in crypt-currency and never even heard of this?  

Under US law, Intent comes first.
It is either a new technology, that uses incentive to secure the network.
Or
It is a lottery, that hides behind a guise of new technology.

US Banks are conducting a lottery under your interpretation of law. They receive interest as a prize for payment processing.

The real argument is Consideration.

In legal theory, "Consideration" does not apply since no one is purchasing from the one running this lottery.
You are saying that buying computers and parts and electricity, the electric company and Dell are facilitating the games?  

US law can and does confiscate money generated in violation of its laws elsewhere in the world.  Just ask online poker players.  

Mainstream acceptance of Bitcoin in the US economy (especially by vendors and businesses) will be hamstrung by this fact as it becomes more widely realized.

Every government in the world taxes gaming, which is why there are gaming control laws in the first place.  

Why am I scum for pointing out the law where it is currently being ignored?  Am I scum for pointing out that you cannot legally murder me to shut me up?

Open your mind to things you don't want to hear.  It can be a very educational experience.

Telleroftruth... what's your reason for being here?
What's in it for you to talk down bitcoin?

Really? Where do you live that you can pay rent or your mortage in Bitcoin?

As for the topic at hand. I think that yes, he does have some credit to his argument. However, you could make the claim that Bitcoin DOES operate like stock in a company (that seems to be how many people use it in trade), but that the company is a decentralized network. Thus the concept of the DAC. And as we all know, the stock market in and of itself is very much like a gaming set up. What draws the difference between the two?

Incorrect.  I agree that banks do receive interest as a fee or "prize" for payment processing.  However, they do not randomly select who gets payment processing and who does not - there is no "chance" selection of customers.  Everybody who submits a request for payment gets equal service.  No element of "chance", no lottery.


Incorrect.  Consideration is not about a "player" (mining) OBTAINING something of value from a "lottery runner" (Bitcoin).  Consideration is about the "lottery runner" (Bitcoin) RECEIVING something of value from the "player" (miner) - namely, the addition of a block to the blockchain from a single miner that it designates as a ten-minute "winner".

Thank you for thinking this through instead of just insulting me.  You will eventually conclude that legally I am right, as uncomfortable as that will be to admit.

Thank you.


A stock market is just a meeting place that charges a fee or rent for allowing two parties to meet and negotiate a legal contract to exchange two assets.  Nobody is excluded from the transaction by a "chance" element, and the exchange of two equal-values assets at the time of transfer is not the awarding of a "prize".  AFTER the transaction is concluded, SUBSEQUENT ELEMENTS determine if you made a good trade ("win" or "lose") - NOT your counterparty or your exchange.

Bitcoin is a lottery.  Stock markets are not a lottery.

I collect rent, I don't pay it.  ;)

But I don't see how it is like a stock just because a lot of people treat it like one. Can you buy BTC at a stock market? No because it is not a stock, nor does it have the legal properties of a stock such as an issuer. ; nor is it called a stock by any legal entity; nor can a decentralized network be called to testify.
 If you collect stamps you may buy and sell and follow the market prices, but they are stamps none the less. You are stamp collector even if you fancy yourself a "postage stock trading expert".

You have to purchase something from the lottery runner, to participate in that lottery. That is what "Consideration" is.
It is under Contract Law. It is an agreement, or proof that you are participating in the lottery.

If you are now saying that when a miner makes an "addition of a block to the blockchain (from a single miner) that it designates (it) as a ten-minute "winner". and as a result, gains a "prize" from the network, then when did the miner pay the entrance fee into that lottery?

You are saying that as soon as the Miner "finds a block", its Consideration.

So, an unsuccessful Miner is mining, equals no lottery, since there is no consideration.
But when a Miner "finds a block", and gets a "prize", finding the block is the consideration?
So in theory, only the miner who finds the block is playing a lottery by himself, and pays himself.

Who is running this lottery?
The Miner is paying himself and playing by himself, in your legal interpretation. That can not be a lottery.

Yeah, like they had nothing better to do than jump into a bitcoin forum to try to scare people from btc... lol
Fortunately smart people reside here and see their puppet ways.... is this the "then they fight you" phase?

Legally the Bitcoin miner entry requirement of owning or renting a computer to calculate trial crypto blocks constitutes "consideration".  You think a Monarch (or similar) running for 10 minutes and generating 700,000,000,000 * 60 * 10 = 42 trillion perfectly valid crypto blocks that get dumped just for not having an arbitrary pattern of X leading zeros isn't a requirement that the entrant expend extensive time or effort?


Legally irrelevant.


Agreed.  But you are aware that the Bitcoin "system" offers a "prize" for participation as a miner and there is no way you can compete to generate a valid Bitcoin block and win that prize without spending money - equipment purchase, cloud rental, whatever.  As soon as you spend such money with the intent of generating the winning block in a ten-minute Bitcoin lottery, you have accepted the terms of the Bitcoin lottery of your own volition.  


Everybody hears of something the first time from somebody:

http://xkcd.com/1053/

Here's who's also hearing about this for the first time besides you:

http://www.naag.org/naag/attorneys-general/whos-my-ag.php

ahhaha what a dumb fuck. Dont tell me you actually pass your bar exam. This is why most lawyers are only able to sign documents for money. Rarely they even understand what the fuck the law says, how its created ...

Hmm. I'm still not feeling it. The cartoon was kinda funny though. If the germane part is extensive time and effort it would be a huge stretch to apply it to mining. I have a friend who has mined thousands of BTC working about 1 hour per week. That's a lot less than I work for a lot less money. I would bet those laws were set up to go after contest scams. Something designed to get cheap labor under the guise of a contest. The thing about bitcoin is that there is no scammer. When you mine you work for yourself and none of your expenses go to bitcoin. They may go to the power company or Dell computers. But that is because you got power and a computer. No victim, no crooked contest business.

U.S. can and will excercise its laws within U.S. ground, but to charge the rest of the world for something in their law that the other country doesnt have in own laws is stupidity at its finest.
Mister, you are in wrong place if you want to discredit bitcoin, or its comunity, as you are on bitcoin forum. Its like a priest coming to a boys locker room, you just dont belong here im afraid.
Regarding laws that are being ignored, they may be ignored with a reason, they may need to be changed, or are we still burning witches at town square?

Its funny to see a lawyer trying to use "law" as if its god's spell.

Being too stupid to understand the law aside, law is made by ppl from their currecnt understanding of matters.

Law once said, " no gay or lesbian on this earth" I guess that means we should jail every gay marriage then? No human evolves and so is their mind and understanding of universe.

Stupid lawyer can read books all day and try to pick words to make it sound like they're contributing to the world.

Smart lawyer however strike to see how the law is created and thus will challenge it if need to.

Incorrect.  "Purchase" is most definitely not legally required and is not synonymous with "consideration".  See for example this legal definition (pg 3 at http://www.revenue.pa.gov/FormsandPublications/PAPersonalIncomeTaxGuide/Documents/pitguide_chapter_15.pdf (http://www.revenue.pa.gov/FormsandPublications/PAPersonalIncomeTaxGuide/Documents/pitguide_chapter_15.pdf):

"Consideration in this context means any valuable advantage or benefit that the person conducting a competition, contest of chance or lottery expects to realize as a result of conducting such competition, contest of chance or lottery. The term, therefore, may include, but is not limited to, bets or wagers of cash or property, making a purchase, being present at a drawing, giving a testimonial for a product of the donor of the prize, filling in an application or contest blank, following any rules; or expending time or personal effort." 

This legal definition includes expending time and personal effort and resources to come up with a crypto block that, when added to the Bitcoin blockchain, allows the multi-billion-dollar Bitcoin juggernaut to continue functioning for another ten minutes.



When he first spent money to acquire a computer and electricity / bandwidth to take a chance at calculating a "winning" crypto block.


Incorrect.  When a miner "finds a block", that's the moment he is awarded a "prize".   He gives "consideration" to the Bitcoin community BEFORE he finds a block and BEFORE he wins a prize by chance.


Incorrect.  The "consideration" is the computer purchase money and electricity the miner dedicates to trying to finding a block whether he succeeds or not.


Everybody who participates as a Bitcoin miner.  Bitcoin is a decentralized group consensus lottery that uses the internet to allow participation among consenting members.  That consent doesn't make it legal.

He spent hundreds / thousands of dollars to  buy that mining gear, and continues to pay significant electricity and bandwidth costs to apply it to mining.  Bitcoin benefits from his presence in its mining network.  This legally constitutes consideration.


Victimless crime is still crime.  Even tho everybody in a basement at an illegal poker game or in an alley throwing dice all agree to be there and accept the outcome of what happens, their activities still get raided by the police.  Why would a Bitcoin mining warehouse warrant an exemption for running its illegal lottery?

Your legal reasoning is bad faith interpretation, but the US Federal Government has been known to play those games.
Your definition and case law that you are citing is dated 1940, 1954, 1976. Those opinions and definition can not adequately answer many questions with new tech.
If a new technology, uses  "Game Theory", to make fair an (unfair) decentralized confirmation network, that does not make itself an illegal lottery.
But is using aspects of a lottery, or "Game Theory" to make the unfeasible (a nontrusted system becomes trustable through nontrust), thus feasible.

There is no caselaw or current US Rulings that would lead one to think the US Attorney General would claim Bitcoin mining is a lottery, thus illegal.
This is new law and only the Supreme Court of the US will be able to rule on this matter.
At the end of the day, if the US Government receives tax revenue from bitcoiners buy/selling bitcoin (like the IRS now mandates), why would they make parts of it illegal?

The OP's first argument is valid. You dont have a chance of winning the "lotto" unless you have a ticket. And tickets cost money.

Mining rigs cost money, electricity costs money.

Anyway.. A good lawyer can argue for either side of this "bit"coin. In the mean time I'll just keep stacking dough thanks to Bitcoin and the miners whom keep it going.

Viva la miners!

Cite case and precedent for your claims.

You're trying to be tricky and clever, but little of what you say is "truth".  Nice try.

Everyone saying that buying mining rigs and electricity to mine is the same as buying a lottery ticket to play the lotto, but it's totally and completely different.  When you buy a lottery ticket that money goes to the entity hosting the lottery and the only thing you can do with your purchase is play the lottery.  Carrying that line of thinking over to bitcoin mining is absurd and illogical, and barely even worth commenting on in its stupidity.

If someone has to tell you they're telling the truth, most likely they are not.

I respect a meth dealer more than a fucking lawyer. I don't have data to back this up, but if you add it all up, my guess would be that more lives were ruined by lawyers.
I can't wait until most of them are jobless like my GF''s uncles who used to be a press operator. Now he works in a supermarket.

you're a scum for thinking just because a law said this or that we should close up shop and take it up the ass.

Oh man, these hacks brought lawyers to our forum?.... just fucking go away... perfect reason why folks choose bitcoin over convoluted govt authority.
Let's see... why would anyone want an alternative to fake money printing and corrupt banks?

I got as far as this then didn't bother reading anymore. :D

Yeah I mean what the fuk. If you are going to criticise bitcoin at least put it some effort ffs..

I like the first attack lol !

Mining clearly a competitive service not a wager.

So far I haven't seen a convincing rebuttal to the arguments that distributed consensus is Impossible with PoS.

i like op's fud post.. specifically the lottery angle.  never thought of it that way.

This is clear FUD from the time OP claims mining Bitcoin is an ilegal activity.

Everything said in the OP is mostly useless. The only negative things about Bitcoin are: it's volatility, it's lack of regulation, it's name.

Simply put, Bitcoin is decentralized(Mining is not like a lottery), etc etc. (sorry dont have the time to put into creating a deep, long post).

If you notice a small box where there is a coin slot for to take your chance to control the claw machine to grab the plush toys, that's illegal too as the chance is practically 1 out if 10.

If we go by the OP's assumptions, then living life itself is illegal as everyday there's a probability that you might die, and the "ticket" to sustain life is oxygen, your heart, lungs, water, etc. OP is an idiot.

Op you are a prophet and a genius. Hold up selling all my bitcoins you beautiful teller of truth.....



NOT

I *really* dont want to side with OP, but is some terms I think he is right. Bitcoin mining does seem more like a lottery or contest in comparison with actual gold mining.

And you DO have yo pay to play. its called electricity. About a month and a half ago I turned off all ten of my 1TH/s miners. It made no sense to mine using electricity when the value of bitcoin was/is dropping. I was "paying to play" and i could not afford it any longer. In some respects its not much different than if you go to a casino to play blackjack and you do well and profit, take a break, come back after lunch to play and you start losing. Are you still gonna play??? Are you still gonna mine?

I think you underestimate the worldwide bitcoin community. China wont stop producing bitcoins. Even if it became illegal to mine BTC in the states, people will still mine as long as its profitable.

The new score is "Zero strikes against Bitcoin", thanks for the effective summary.

depends on how you define crime.  if you mean crime as in whatever the ruling authority says so, then sure.  but IMO, a crime that has no victim is no crime at all according to universal principles of justice.

Just a question more , why is bitcoin illegal ???

It is only illegal in some countries...n not even illegal exactly..I see the positives it brings...n not a lot of drawbacks.. I love it n Ill continue to use it

Easy boys..

OP wants his pound of flesh, and has at least brought an original idea to the table, always good. This 'Lottery' thing.

May I ask - If I try and find GOLD in my backyard.. Does that count as a lottery ?

I mean, we could all go out into our gardens, (if you have one), and dig a big hole and look for Gold. If you find some.. YOU WIN!

I had to buy a shovel to play.

Depends on where the gold comes from.  As long as the guy who sold you the shovel didn't put the gold in some shovel buyer's gardens and not others, it's not a lottery.

Gulp! Isn't that cheaper than building all the banks in the world, not to mention their yearly energy consumption to do the same time that crypto does at a cheaper up-front cost?

When you're done here, OP, head on over to an eBay forum and inform that it's auction model is unsustainable because eventually the world will run out of things to auction on the second-hand marketplace.

Fortunately, BTC is a computer program and does not need any money at all. You are thinking of the desires of miners. Not a need of the system. It worked perfectly fine when BTC costs $0.06.

In which countries is it illegal? :-\

I am truly interested to see whether Gavin's prediction of falling rates for ASIC miners comes to fruition.

also like to know, does anyone know?

I read a atraz time which in Russia would become illegal in 2015 (if I remember correctly). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I heard they might ban it in china or japan :-\