Bitcoin Forum

I think that a new crypto will be developed and people will use it rather than bitcoin.

So far though.. Altcoins have been complete failures.

That is what you think, apart from what is the reality. In the first place, why bitcoin?

There plenty of things why people tend to choose bitcoin other than different payment systems. Maybe the most important of it is the decentralized concept; the transaction fee (which is the lowest among other payment processors); The anonymity it offers to the users; and the concept of no double-spending and irreversible transactions.

Because Bitcoin is the original one and has the network effect and we don't need a new unnecessary coin.

This is completely true. Most of the newly-created altcoins are p&d pre-mines that end up being a scam and an attempt to end up getting money out of people.


I second this.

What do you mean by the original one? Are you aware that there have been numerous predecessors to bitcoin?

So far they have been failure then why do you suppose any other will succeed though i doubt any such alt will exist but if it does it will be great to be a part of it

There might be an interesting and a far greater candidate of the future digital currency other than bitcoin in the coming years but bitcoin is far too complex and too genius to be succeeded. No one knows what the future holds, but I'm pretty sure that bitcoin will hold the number 1 spot as the world's greatest digital currency for a long time.

Bitcoin was too genius and complex , with all the noob-friendly posts and easy to use exchange's and wallet , it's easy

Then how about a new crypto but with an anonymous creator?

New software, new bugs, new testing, weak infrastructure.

If an altcoin is going to pass bitcoin adoption it will take years, not just for public awareness of said coin but it also has to pass the test of time and prove to be secure and reliable.

It's the first one to include a blockchain as core part of the protocol. The blockchain is Bitcoin's invention.

I fully agree. All summed up in a nutshell.

makes no sence doing this, since bitcoin can change and evolve to satosfy any need that may be necesary in the future..
furthermore, you would have to build up a brand from zero, invest in an infrastructure, gain trust, that allways present 99 possible bugs in the code..
and ofcourse altcoins are all failures, they are a bad bitcoin ripoffs, but some will try hard to proove you otherwise due to ...reasons..

cheers

That makes no sense. Gavin Anderson, etc etc, are not anonymous, and to be honest, they contributed more to Bitcoin core than satoshi did orignally(Satoshi created this ingenius thing tho!). If anything, having an anonymous creator is bad for a coin.

Litecoin cant handle microtransactions or anything at all really, anymore than bitcoin can(its just a bitcoin clone). Its a failed coin.

Do yourselves a favor. Look into NAVajo truly anonymous.. which is what bitcoin should be. Long term coin, dev team is bannanas.. Dont say I never gave the heads up guys..

https://i.imgur.com/BiZLTs7.jpg

Bitcoin has the first-mover advantage. Other coins may be slightly better or offer some more interesting features, but that doesn't matter. Someone explained it this way: If Bitcoin offers 80% advantage or innovation over regular financial technologies, other coins may offer 80.1% which isn't enough to compensate for the broad adoption Bitcoin already has. The key to this may be sidechains!

Your a sidechain!

just kidding/ bored ;D

Because anything that would make another crypto "better", can also be integrated in Bitcoin. So we'd have the same improvement or advantage in Bitcoin, AND the market size, economic volume, global acceptance, software ecosystem and user base of Bitcoin which is 1000× larger than any other crypto.

Bitcoin still being developed and improved, it's not even 1.0 yet. No need for another crypto whatsoever.

Peercoin was created by an anonymous creator, Nxt, Qora...

^^^THIS.

It is impossible to get a new coin that will be seen as the main coin.

If you want to make a new "leader" coin, then you need to make a new algo that is good for everyone and cant be hit by ASICs and that is able to spread in the real world too instead of only having coin services accepting it as a payment method.

Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency that ever existed. All the alt coins are basically a cheap copy of Bitcoin with poor developers and community. Bitcoin has lots of professional developers and receives the most media attention out of all the coins out there.

Darkcoin is doing good... Its doing very good...

So I would not say that all altcoins are shit, its 1% of then that has value and works, then rest is shit.

Right now there really isn't a good alt coin that does something useful that Bitcoin doesn't do.  

When somebody makes a new alt that is really better, well, then we can talk about it.

Still it would take years for it to rise to a level to be able to par with bitcoin let alone surpass it

Have you ever heard of Ripple? All its qualities are exact opposites of what you said.

Btw, could you name at least 3 "professional developers" of Bitcoin while we are on this topic, please?

Sure.  Back to the Facebook and Myspace comparison it actually took a long time (in internet years) for Facebook to supplant Myspace. 

The only reason I can think of is because it is virtually the first in the game or rather the original crypto. There's already a strong community build around and being the first also means you have that advantage. There are certainly altcoins with faster confirmation time or some with better anonymity but sadly the community never stays long. Due to the pump and dump scenario, people start to lose faith in alts and eventually return back to bitcoin. How I know? Yeah, I'm one of the those guys who has gone back to bitcoin.

Bitcoin is pump and dump "altcoin" too. After a while we all return to fiat.

I think because bitcoin is mother of cryptocurrency.
And altcoin is not failure because altcoin just alternative, its child of mother of cryptocurrency.

As long as speculation and semi-/illegal businesses will be the main driving force in the growth, that is the expected long-term result.

Yes altcoin is alternating coin which the other type of digital coin but people still user bitcoin because already many user of it

Right. Some altcoins are better than Bitcoin feature-wise. Bitcoin is on the top simply because of first mover advantage which is becoming less and less important.

Alt coins are failures because they largely do not offer anything that bitcoin doesn't or not anything truly revolutionary despite what most of them claim. If one coin came along that was blatantly better than bitcoin it very likely would supersede it as bitcoin would become redundant very quickly. I think if this was going to happen it already would have by now but it's still possible this could happen but will just have to wait and see what the future brings. Maybe they're some geniuses out there already working on it.

And you don't even regret that you had a chance to sell at 1200$ and buy back at 300$?

We tend to think that other people should also think 'our way', meaning they should be aware of Ripple-, Doge-, Lite-, whatever-Coin, because we here in this forum know it. I wouldn't say so, and I wouldn't overestimate the knowledge of not-crypto-related public about alternatives for Bitcoin. For now, its only about Bitcoin.

People don't care about the name, they open fancy software and use it. Guess what, with 90% chance it will be Ripple backing that soft.

Yes, just like I regret I didn't fill in the correct numbers on my lottery ticket.

Whatever, wisdom in hindsight is always easy.

I strongly believe in Bitcoin for the long term, so I'm in and I will stay in. I do not intend to *ever* sell ANY bitcoins. Instead, I just plan on actually living off them, paying all of my daily expenses, my rent, holidays, etc directly with Bitcoin. And rest assured, it's getting there sooner than people think.

The reason why I think Bitcoin is and will still be the mainly used cryptocurrency, is because altcoins have been created as an alternative to Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is supposed to be the alternative to digital payments and government currency, which makes altcoins the alternative to the alternative, and therefore the chance of success for them is pretty small.

Amen brother! I've cut the cord and the only time I use other money on the internet is to buy more bitcoin. It makes credit cards seem stupid and antiquated.
"I want to buy this soda, here is my identity, credit card info, my secret number on the back; feel free to come back later and dig around in my financial data."

F that. Here is my bitcoin. Now hand me my soda.  ;)

I think also so. And I'm waiting anxiously for the day when we can pay all our bills using Bitcoins.

You seem to gonna live forever...

That might be too far from now. Let's face it, the adoption rate of bitcoin has gone slower since the recent price drops and bad pr. It may, yes. But it seems too improbable in the next coming years. Not sounding to be a pessimist but 10 years is a small time-frame to see any improvements in the adoption of bitcoin.

Bitcoin started and took so long to come this far and altcoins have copied them and hardly gotten any far , i would be surprised if any new alt makes it

They wont succed, thats the truth. If something is to replace bitcoin, it wont be some copy coin like every altcoin is.
Think about it, altcoins are doomed before they were created, simply because to proove that some coin can replace bitcoin means only that there will be yet another coin replacing that altcoin.
If that is ever to happen, whole crypto will collapse, and there will be 0 trust in it, forever.

cheers

I wouldn't be so harsh on all altcoins, not to forget were Bitcoin came from in the first place. In the second place, there are some altcoins that proved to be around for quite long already, either because of the community support (e.g., Doge) or because of features (e.g., NXT) and I wouldn't completely rule out that out of that mass of altcoins there may be coming something that could be Bitcoin 2.0. Similar as it was with the web browsers, not so long time ago: everybody here remember Netscape or Internet Explorer and their position, say 10-15 years ago, and where they are now.

Any new and improved Crypto now has to stand up to a test that Bitcoin never had to.

Bitcoin was an experiment that a couple of people were trying out and then they started using it as an exchange of value.

New Altcoin "insert name here" from it's genesis block is already cursed. Is there a pre-mine? Is it a scam? What is it's logo? Is it on any exchanges? Are there any mining pools? Who are the developers? Are any websites or stores accepting it as payment? Does it have it's own website? What's it's algorithm? Is it proof of work or proof of stake or proof of anything? Why is it any better than any other alt? Why even bother creating an alt? Have the bugs been ironed out? Is there a linux wallet? An android wallet? Are there any faucets? Is there a community? Does it play Doom?

Bitcoin never had to deal with any of this.

Do you even know what microtransactions are? It has to do with blockchain bloat, not blocktime. Litecoin is just a bitcoin clone, and it cannot handle any sort of microtransactions...Litecoin is 100% useless. Pandacoin has more utility than Litecoin...

I'm particularly hoping this comes to happen in the next 10 years (perhaps before, but difficult). Until then, I will follow what bitcoin has to offer.
(I do not hide from anyone, I am very optimistic)

Yep! never gonna happen

Though it is true some altcoins have made this far but we are talking about them competing with bitcoin , which is not possible

Each one we have seen with better technologies have so far failed whether it was faster confirmation times, more secure, better anonymity and such. even when there is going to be another likely it will suffer the same fate as the others. Also as bitcoin gets stronger chances for new crypto to replace its position will be most unlikely.

Better Bitcoin will be Bitcoin :)

Regards

What gave you the impression that every altcoin is a bitcoin copy?

Perhaps the fact that, some small technicalities aside, they all are?

Failed at replacing bitcoin? This process takes quite some time. Let's wait 20 years and we'll see.
Either bitcoin tech advances faster (which I hope, but doubt), or it will be replaced.

Imagine you wouldn't know cryptos and someone asked you for a choice. Would you use coin A with slow confirmaton times, bloated blockchain and controlled by big mining companies, or would you use a fast, slick, fully decentralized coin B with a lot more features.

Yes, the network effect is in favour of bitcoin, but if we assume that most crypto users are rational (may be too much to assume?), there will be a shift sooner or later.

Damn I want to give back my Ferrari now, it's just a copy of the Ford model T.

The differences between a Ferrari and a Ford Model T are:
1. not just some small technicalities
2. not something that current Ford owners could decide to instantly implement in their cars as well, free of charge

There is nothing that altcoins do or have, that Bitcoin couldn't do or have as well if we all want to.

Simply because Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency that get mainstream. It also have lot of investor and adoption rate is very high.

That ain't true , we can buy alot from bitcoin directly , the days aren't far , maybe 10 years from now

1. The same is the case if you compare bitcoin to some altcoins.
2. Too many if's. User opinions differ. In the end, the foundation and devs decide. Look at the 20MB fork issue. This kind of stuff is slowing down technological advancement.
If the world was perfect and everyone was in unison, then yes, Bitcoin could adopt all new tech. But I'm sure I'll never see the day when Bitcoin implements Proof of Stake for example, since many bitcoiners are PoW maximalists.

I can already pay the majority of all my daily expenses in Bitcoin. That includes my phone and internet bill, shopping, daily groceries, and later this year I will even be paying my rent in Bitcoin. Holiday, or a night out: Bitcoin.

Only three hurdles remaining are tax, public transport, and health insurance.

Not quite, THE most important advantage of Bitcoin over any altcoin is the huge leap ahead in market size, acceptance, recognition, branding, user base, everything. That's not some technicality that developers could decide to enable or include, recompile, release an update, and there it is. This takes years to grow, and Bitcoin has done this unlike any other altcoin.

Sure, you need some form of consensus. Is there any in altcoins?

Oh and just to address a huge misunderstanding: the foundation decides exactly NOTHING. They're a group of lobbyists trying to promote Bitcoin, which is great, but they have no more saying in Bitcoin's development than any other user.

Does the majority of Bitcoin users think that PoS is better than PoW? I doubt it (I, for example, don't) and thus, it shouldn't be implemented in Bitcoin.

Your original statement was that all altcoins are, apart from small technicalities, a copy of bitcoin. Some of them are not. I agree with what you say now, but this was not your point.


I hoped you'd say that. That's excatly the reason why bitcoin will not change much.

Please answer me this: If in an utopian world, there existed a PoS system that was able to reach fully decentralized consensus, and was not susceptible to attacks (like stake grinding /N@S), and had a good enough distribution, what would speak against a switch to PoS?

Would it not save a shitload of electricity being converted to heat? Would it not decentralize the block generation process, that is now in the hand of 4 mining pools (>51%)

hint: I'm convinced that this utopian PoS system already exists (not speaking about one coin specifically)


In the end, maybe Come-from-Beyond is right. Most people don't care about technical features, concepts like decentralization, block confirmation time and stuff. They just want to send or exchange money fast, or store it in a bank for convenience. Sadly this is why the world could just end up using ripple.

The problem is there are hundreds of other alts, yet none of them offer anything different to bitcoin. Sure some can be staked, some offer POS only but there is no innovation. Its just bitcoin, with a different algo more often than not.

Show me Bitcoin decentralized asset exchange then.

What does that even mean? Which alt offers that? That isn't ground breaking either. Bitcoin is code. Anything you can code can be done with bitcoin.

Good, so we don't have Bitcoin decentralized asset exchange simply because noone needs it?

Honestly I have no idea what you're on about.

You can build anything you need onto bitcoin network.  How can you really improve on bitcoin?

Your last sentence shows you know that altcoins had little success.

Coinbase's CEO disagrees with your first statement : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=966084.new#new

If everyone chose coin B, then coin B would be bloated and controlled by big mining companies. As simple as that.

Bitcoin is not perfect.
We can expect better cryptocurrence.

not if coin B is proof of stake and allows for blockchain pruning

And Coinbase's CEO opinion matters because ...

Because what?

Blockchain pruning doesn't magically disappear transactions. They still have to be stored somewhere. And Bitcoin is implementing it already.

Proof of Stake... still needs a computation to be done, right? There would be server farms doing that computation, whether you like it or not.

There is quite a lot of alts that differ significantly from bitcoin and do have something interesting behind. The main problem is that Bitcoin was first, and thus, there were no expectations about proving whether various concept work or make sense. Just an experiment that ended successfully. Now however, all altcoins are required (from the user-side) to pass numerous tests (some of them being utterly unnecessary), before they can distinguish themselves from a pure PnD clone. And some of them do indeed pass them. Too early to call, whether Bitcoin 2.0 is already among them, but I am sure sooner or later it will appear.

Unless someone come with a total new idea like Satoshi did , any Alternative coin will be a total failure .
They are basically all cheap copies and Bitcoin is unique and original . that simple

~ Madness

Actually, we can expect Bitcoin to become better. It's not finished yet.

We don't have that yet, because nobody created one yet. But this has nothing to with any supposed shortcoming of Bitcoin or any other altcoin, it's just something that can (and will) be created independently. So I kinda miss the point here?
 

Because it's true. Not because he's the CEO of whatever, but because of the content of his message. Don't shoot the messenger.
 
 

Such as? I've seen a few interesting modifications from the original Bitcoin (things that can also be integrated into Bitcoin, by the way) but absolutely nothing spectacular that I would consider a technological breakthrough or "the next big thing" (like Bitcoin is to fiat).

The only development in this direction is Ethereum, and it isn't even live yet.

Why would you (personally) say it's true?
We all agree that Brian Armstrong has a huge conflict of interest and the statement per se is worthless.
Why not start our own list, right?

I'll start with a minus and a plus for Bitcoin:
- no decentralized asset exchange
+ wide adoption

Unless the new coin could retain all bitcoins good points and introduces something really new that solve all the current problem like volatility. There has been an altcoin called Nubits which aim to achieve just that but I don't see it making an impact for now. Eventually it will all still go back to bitcoin no matter how, just the fate like all the rest of altcoins.

The point is that decentralized asset exchanges already exist in some altcoins. This is at least one feature where Bitcoin sux.

Can you elaborate? I'd say the idea of an asset exchange is to trade different kinds of assets (currencies, contracts, whatever) with strangers in a trustless way. What altcoin offers this possibility, and how does it facilititate, for example, trading Bitcoins for Euros?

Ripple. With help of magic.

It's impossible to have a decentralized exchange that deals with dollars and euros, unless dollars and euros were implemented with a Bitcoin-style protocol. But if we got there, then I think exchanging them would be pointless.

Why?

Isn't that essentially what BitShares are trying to do?

Bitcoin has serious challenges to overcome, but the early lead is a Huge advantage. The next few years will be really exciting...

Then it's a wasted effort. How can my physical banknotes be represented by a digital token without a central authority regulating it?

I would have to read their whitepaper to understand it, so I can't really answer you (right now) but at least they seem to claim they have managed it (in a decentralised way). By the way I'm not saying that this is necessarily the solution, like I said I don't really understand it enough to make a judgement, I just wanted to point out that there are efforts towards that exact goal.

...Nxt does.

But no one likes the big stakeholder %, the way its innitially distributed and so on. I dont know, i dont see any other coin out doing BTC at this point.

Right, losers who lost one in a lifetime chance don't like it.

I don't see a coin outdoing bitcoin at this point either (only in the future), but I see some coins coexist beside bitcoin right now. It's not necessarily an either/or choice.
Hmm, so this is still the negative picture that people have of Nxt. I won't be able to change that, but would like to show three small points:

1. Distribution depends on community size. Bitcoin has a lot more users, therefore a "better" relative distribution. (what is a good distribution btw?)
Largest Nxt whale account has 5% of total supply, largest bitcoin account has 1,25%. Kind of logical if you consider that bitcoin userbase is a few magnitudes larger.

2. The IPO was open for almost two months, yet only very few were interested. Yes, BCNxt could have communicated better on the closing date of the IPO, but apart from that, I don't see anything wrong with it. Why does it matter?

3. The points you mentioned are socio-economical, but don't say anything about the protocol (the most important part)


Please compare these 2 charts:

http://nxtportal.org/forgers/
https://blockchain.info/de/pools

Which block generating process would you say is more decentralized?

Cheap coins with much lower processing power and hence lower network society.
No wonder that the combined market cap of alts is lower than Bitcoin's market cap.

Bitcoin should not be replaced by an altcoin. I admit it could happen, but it shouldn't.

I'm surprised to see that nobody has pointed out the fact that having a new crypto replace the old crypto every couple of years could completely destroy trust in cryptos forever. This sort of "revolving door" model where the new shit replaces the old shit might work well for car models or Windows versions but one of the qualities of money is that it should be safe, consistent, and keep its value over time.

Would you trust or keep the bulk of your savings in a currency if you knew that it will be worthless in two or three years time when "the next big thing" comes with more features and innovations under the hood and kicks it off the #1 position? Even worse, would you trust a currency if you had no clue what will actually replace it because there were dozens of possible candidates each vying to be its successor?

And even if you did the research, picked the winner, and transferred your wealth from the dying coin to the new coin before the former became completely worthless, what about those who might not have the skills to adapt in time? What about all the grandmas, housewives, little kids, and the computer illiterate who might have their savings locked up in a now-worthless coin?

Bitcoin the protocol is programmable money.  If you're looking at Bitcoin as a digital currency, you're seeing a tiny fraction of the potential.

The reason why no altcoin has taken hold is that virtually everything they can do, Bitcoin can also do.  But if you have specific ideas, give it a go and get rich.

Maybe Bitcoin 2.0 then? An improved version with anonymous untraceable transactions. It doesn't have to happen in 2 or 3 years, but eventually SHA256 will become obsolete and we'll be forced to upgrade. What will the new bitcoin based on another algorithm be called? Somebody could say that Internet was upgraded and the name remained the same, but the new internet surely isn't the same one people used in 1980.
I think the changes will come but they will be introduced smoothly and won't require users to sell their coins and buy something new.

What you say has a point. Even though a new crypto has the potential to replace bitcoin in case it has new technologies, far better and I mean in every aspect of the blockchain, then it is likely to happen. However, what we have seen thus far, proves otherwise, given the time of at least 5 years since litecoin appear and I mean not even single one has managed to do that shows, bitcoin is still the choice. And the main reason is the community, infrastructure and the continued support that it is getting. As years go by, it will only become stronger and stronger, and it will take mass exodus of people to actually make it happen (leaving to altcoins). As long as the community agree on one direction, bitcoin will still be there.

Bitcoin 2.0 would not be the same as Bitcoin 1.0.

When SHA256 becomes obsolete due to a faster than brute force break, the rest of the world will have bigger problems to deal with first.

You are a bit behind the times. You should probably spend more time researching than all the effort invested into trolling.

Bitcoin has these:
http://www.secureae.com
https://blockscan.com/order_book?asset1=XCP&asset2=SWARM
https://www.masterxchange.com/market.php?currency=maid
https://bitsquare.io/
http://www.coinffeine.com/
http://www.coinsigner.com/

Decentralized asset exchanges for in person-
https://localbitcoins.com/
https://mycelium.com/lt/help.html


Will you apologize for spreading ignorant FUD?

You seem pretty confident on that statement. Do you know anything we don't know about the SHA256 algorithm?

We still have a long way before Bitcoin 1.0.


As I said, what makes people think SHA256 will become obsolete? Seriously, I don't know.


It's important to note that the Internet evolved progressively. Yes, it's not the same today than it was in the 80s, but the changes didn't happen overnight. So, Bitcoin will be Bitcoin, even if they change the hash algorithm.


I totally agree.

Bitcoin has most the features that alts do , they just fall outside of Bitcoin core by design and we should keep it that way.

Keep bitcoin simple, modular, and dumb like TCP/IP. All these alts that keep scaffolding features within their core code instead of keeping the development on the edges will fall behind.

An apropos example is how sophisticated Telephony switch operators which kept the endpoints (telephone receivers) dumb and focused on upgrading their network are now being overtaken by VOIP and cellular networks with smart endpoints and simpler networks.

If Bitcoin remains simple it will offer greater agility, security, and flexibility.

News sites have been screaming about quantum computers for months. I'm taking these articles with a pinch of salt, but still there will come a day when SHA256 will no longer be secure.

SHA256 is immune to quantu computers.

Quantum computers are for solving certain kinds of calculations faster, but that doesn't mean they will automatically break all cryptography in the world.

Before quantum computers will come even close to breaking (as in, feasibly brute forcing) Bitcoin's cryprography, pretty much all other financial protocols on the planet will have been broken long before.

In fact, quantum computers breaking cryptography will be a bliss for Bitcoin. It will break other financial systems' cryprography MUCH sooner, thus fiat / credit card / paypal / other centralized types of money users will be inclined to flee to safer, quantum computing resistant alternatives, like Bitcoin.

I laugh at this,every time I read another post about an alt coin being better than bitcoin I say.

"How could an alt coin succeed when bitcoin fails?What would a alt coin be without bitcoin when alt coins would seize to exist if it wasn't for bitcoin?"

Alt coins are the real scams here.

I like your conclusion. It sounds so sarcastic when you recall that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme and money of drug traffickers.

https://i.imgur.com/iX9vlpv.jpg

well than good sir,what is it,is it a ponzi scheme or money of drug traffickers?

I used "and" upthread.

It can't be both.