Bitcoin Forum

First of all I would like to start this off by stating that I am a believer in the possibility of the success of Bitcoin. This may seem like a contradiction with the title of the thread but it is not. This is because the possibility of success is very low due to the reasons which I am going to describe. At the moment bitcoin is 250$ and has been there for quite a while. Exchanges such as cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, ect. exist to exchange btc to usd and btc to other alt coins. Circle and coinbase exchange btc to usd and are currently common way to receive USD from BTC. That is a brief summary of the current ecosystem.

Now let us imagine that bitcoin reaches "the moon" as is often wished for in the Bitcoin community. Let us imagine that one BTC is worth 1 million dollars. It is commonly accepted that these exchanges, cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, circle, coinbase, ect. are for profit. They are not running their businesses out of altruism, but for profit. If one bitcoin is worth one million dollars, how is it remotely imaginable that these exchanges will not just run off with the coins? Even more if I have one btc at one million dollars, I will have to go through some sort of intermediary to receive my USD. This intermediary will run off with the coin because of its massive value.

The issue is a facet of human nature, greed. One bitcoin would not even have to reach 1 million usd for the above scenario to become a reality. How high does btc have to go? The 1k mark was enough for mt gox, 2k...would there still be trust? Would they all run off with the BTC? Ok how about 40k?

This is the problem of bitcoin. People steal. Especially when it is irreversible.

Only traders/speculators need to keep significant amounts of bitcoins in exchanges, getting IOUs instead. The exposure of regular users is limited to the amount and timeframe of their BTC/fiat deposits/withdrawals.

An extremely high value of bitcoin would render it virtually unusable. Even escrows could not be trusted.

0.00000150 BTC (for example) might be worth a Dollar or two, instead of virtually nothing:
Will that cause you (or anyone else) to steal my little $1?

An exchange that is currently trusted with ~$2 Million USD could still have similar value, but be holding a much smaller number of BTC (after honoring withdrawal requests)

There are many other examples which show that Bitcoin will still be useable.

Perhaps in the future people will flock to only those exchanges that are insured or have a credit rating w/o a blemish. Also, if things were to stay the way they are with your scenario of sketchy exchanges, people would still take risks to trade what they will. I doubt w/ such large dollar bitcoin prices down the line that people will keep whole bitcoins on these exchanges but rather just trade in bits instead, thus leaving their exposure more modest. I'm not worried about down the line, just the path to get to a setting where that could be a problem first.

lol this thread is ridiculous. If bitcoin went to 1 mill it wouldn't happen overnight, if it was really starting to take off upwards past $1k again everyone would be focusing on their own security, beauty being they CAN control the private keys not an exchange. Also by this point most of the current amateur exchanges would be long gone and proffesional platforms would be up and mainstream with insurance on the coins. Also security techniques are  getting better, new ways to store coins like hardware wallets will continue to be developed.

Plus BitShares have already created a decentralized exchange, a glimpse of the future!

How are you going to trade 150 satoshi when the transaction fee is .0001

The transaction fee is not hardcoded, it is only a recommendation/consensus, and it has already been significantly lowered several times in the past to reflect the price increase. It will obviously continue to adapt with the market.

Second. lol

I see that question was already answered.
FYI: If you want to appear less "trollish", then you might want a more accurate thread title, for example, "Will $1,000,000/BTC cause a series of new challenges?"

I don't think that is a valid justification to say that it's going to lead to bitcoin collapse. Yeah people do steal and will forever be overcome by greed. But that doesn't mean that you will need to leave your coins in wallet that you don't have the private key to. So essentially you are only making the process of stealing becomes easier. Remember you will always have the choice.

Were still in the ' wild west ' phase, people using the current exchanges know there is risk, if not they are idiots. When there is clear signs that bitcoin is truly going mainstream then people will start to take security more seriously, until then its just an experiment.

Maybe you know Secret and Bitcoin Price be in this year about 10.000$ ?  ???

I suggest this link to OP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraction_(mathematics)

1. Transaction fees, in the event 1btc is 1million usd, would be reduced to around 0.00000004 btc.
    The conversion of that would be $0.04 USD, which is what miners fee is now. If the price crashes, we go back.

2. When/If one bitcoin becomes 1million USD, it will be many years from now (I say 25 years) and todays standard will not exist.
    It could even be possible at that point in time, that regular banks could buy/sell btc. Thus "safer" transactions.

    If btc becomes 1million USD, we would be in uncharted territory and looking at a new/different world. (like, World Banks failed/done)

This thread is oblivious to the current state of the market.  It only speculates a decade of progress will have in days time. 

Someone should collect all these poorly reasoned "why bitcoin will fail" threads with the best rebuttals  to each. Then whenever someone regurgitates them we can just point them to the rebuttal FAQ and otherwise ignore the trolling.

If bitcoin goes to the moon it won't happen in a day. The exchanges, over the long run, stand more to gain by being honest then by stealing a limited amount at any one point. The really big winners will be the dominant bitcoin exchanges that have earned their trust, much as large banks today earn more profits than criminals that rob people or businesses of fiat. And that ignores the wild possibility that some people will resist temptation and will behave ethically, passing on the opportunity to run off with your money.

Even if the price reaches 1 million , it wouldn't be an instant increase.  Only not-smart people will leave their coins on these exchanges and will repent it later.
And there is no way that bitcoin will reach 1 million.People would dump much before and sell their btc as the price goes above 1000.

Absolute BS.

Bitcoin will succeed if the community stays strong and more people believe in it.

True. We also need more awareness for the scammers.

tell that to mtgox

I don't agree with OP but there is a reason I don't trade Bitcoin much via exchanges and that is because of the bad luck so far. It just takes 1 rotten apple to spoil the bowl. If I need to sell bitcoin, I do it locally and privately.

The problem with OP is that, based on his post, he would like to steer towards a centralized system backed by a reputable source(ie a bank handling these exchanges). Would this take away from what Bitcoin is? Well I don't think so. These exchanges need just as much information from you before you can use their services. They charge fees. Some give small amounts of interest. But when you wake up the next day, your local bank will be there, your online exchange might not be.

This alone is NOT a reason as to bitcoin cannot succeed.

You make it seem bitcoin is only for investors. Its not. Fiat is not only for investors. Its an exchange tool. Its worth something and can be exchanged for goods. I love buying things with my bitcoins, especially what I've mined.

That is a problem with people, a problem of trust which is precisely what bitcoin was designed to avoid. Trust third parties at your peril.

There will be no need for exchanges if BTC ever hits that imaginary value (1 million or more).
Also, about stealing, there are solutions as cold wallets stored offline and used only when needed.
Just better security can fix this.

I don't want to comment about Gox or others, as it's not about stealing. Not about greed.
Making BTC better secured will fix it and there is nothing else to be done.
Security at the first place, that's it.

Bitcoins scammed are mostly from people with great stupidity to use the service at the first place...

I don't understand the logic. What does the bitcoin price have to do with not needing exchanges? There will always be exchanges regardless of whether the price becomes 1 million or not (and why that specific magic number?). What we need to move away from are centralized exchanges and towards decentralized ones and that will give faith and confidence to people who don't have to worry about the safety of trusting someone else with your coins.

Money and the economic system as we know it will disappear, the free market will be a fairytale from the past, technology is taking over. By the time BTC hits that 1 mil mark who knows how the world will work. Exchanges are only needed if we still believe in the banks and old currencies. They are only needed for those who want to exchange one virtual good for another just for the sheer value and the personal greed that feeds most of us. The future will make fluctuating values obsolete, bitcoin can contribute to that due to its finity. By that time it might be worth $ 1.000.000 but who cares.

Bitcoin could very well fail, but it won't be for OP's reason.

Sure.But on the other hand it also can be next big thing after the internet & Co.!

in short
the OP is wrong, bitcoin will succeed.

the reason
bitcoin is not an exchange made of PHP code and SQL databases. so even if al of these exchanges run by basement dwellers do go belly up, bitcoin will continue.

after all even if these basement dwellers do run off with a handfull of bitcoins and then sell out secretly, those bitcoins will return to circulation. thus no problem long term.

i think people need to stop thinking of exchanges as 'bitcoin' and start thinking of them as 'the crap basement dwellers make'. then people wont care as much about exchanges and realise what bitcoin is truly all about.

as for anything thinking about the price/value of bitcoin, well again your only thinking of the FIAT concepts and potential. which if the FIAT value matters to you so much, then goodluck and farewell when you return back to FIAT

But something better could come along which could kill bitcoin off pretty quickly. I also think it merchants don't get on board and the currency is always crashing or losing value I think many will get tired of it as a currency and ditch it.

If the price gets lower there will be more who will hop on board. I've been telling my friends to buy the coin and at current price it's a good opportunity to own a bitcoin. Merchants basically don't get exposed to too much of the risk if they use payment processor to handle bitcoin.

bitcoin is code.. if some new code came along that was better.. it only takes a copy and paste to incorporate it into bitcoin.
for instance:
its possible to change bitcoin to instead of being 25btc ~10minutes, to be 12.5~5 minutes or 2.5~minute... without ruining the 21mill limit.
its possible to change the hashing protocol
its possible to change theblock size limits.

anything is possible and bitcoin CAN adapt.

as for people addicted to the bitcoin price.. well when the price drops. weak investors give up and strong investers see it as a nice discount to buy more.
either way the price vs bitcoins protocol mean different things.. the price can even be $1 a btc and merchants instantly converting to fiat wont know or care about it.

and for all those that do get tired. this helps fresh new people buy in

Given the level of strategic thinking on show, I do hope for the OP's sake that it hasn't put any actual money into BTC.

I'm sure Billionaires and extremely large MNCs (Multi-National Corporations) make transactions in the millions of USD quite often, however you don't see them constantly getting scammed. There are precautions that would be taken by any sane person if they had such a large sum of money.

When they do though they'll have insurance or get refunded. That's one thing that likely wont happen with bitcoin. If you lose your coins they're gone.

Then use exchanges that are credible and you KNOW have all the required paperwork and go the extra mile. An exchange with very solid roots is unlikely to be able to pull off a large scam.

By the time Bitcoin is 1 million per coin the exchanges that are centralized will be extremely trustable and with famous faces behind it (Winklevoss with the Gemini one is the start) and not autists like Karpeles.

Also 1 million per coin is not a problem, again, bitcoin being divisible by a shitton etc.

That's not the problem with btc but everything
People always steal , no matter what it is

I have one issue with your write-up;

Even if these exchanges run off with tons of BTC, where will THEY exchange it?

If there's a loss of $300 million in a similar form of what happened to Mt. Gox, certain addresses will likely be blacklisted, namely those that happened to get the BTC from the wallets. How they would pull that off, I am not sure. However a large majority of the community is interested in the success of bitcoin, and so I'm sure something will come about.


This is very, very true. Unless you are one of the technologically ignorant, you shouldn't be keeping in excess of $400 in a single wallet, in my opinion. I've had my BTC spread out far and wide, and I still haven't lost anything, amazingly.


Also a good statement.

I do see what it is that you're trying to say, and I do believe that it's a very real possibility that could cause many issues. I just personally believe that such a scenario is unlikely, and thus there isn't really as need to fret about it.

I wonder how many of these threads were created in just 2015. Every once in a while someone tries to be the 'all knowing' and foresee the future.  ::)

Strange logic, should world banks all close because they have billions of customer dollar?  :D

You better not let anybody know you mine bitcoins then. If bitcoins reach a million a piece there will be people looking to kidnap you. I am not trying to make you afraid, just aware of human nature.

No because the banks are already robbing us blind.

OP mentioned Circle. Isn't Circle insured? So if you lose your BTC's with them you are guaranteed to get it back up to $100,000 or something?

I'm saying Circle would just run off with all the btc they had if the price exploded.

By your logic today's large banks should just run off with everyone's fiat funds, the bankers disappearing to some small Caribbean island or something after some plastic surgery. There is more profit to be made simply staying in business (especially if bitcoin grows so greatly), than in a one-off crime. Not to mention the risk  (given the permanence of blockchain records, absolutely untraceable mixing of huge quantities would be a challenge) that they will eventually be tracked down and caught.

If Bitcoin hit $1 million very few people would have 1 whole Bitcoin.

no just convert it all to dark coin then back to btc.

Thats because people let them steal. Look  at the ponzi threads for example.

Nonsense. Look at the market cap of Darkcoin compared to BTC, much less if BTC market cap explodes. Trying to launder it that way would would just leave a trail anyone could follow in the end.  And they'd need to use exchanges to make the BTC/altcoin trades; it is in the self-interest of the exchanges to fully cooperate with authorities to snag such a criminal so that the value of their cryptocurrencies is upheld. They all go out of business if BTC fails as you suggest. So the criminals in your scenario would have a LOT of enemies, people wanting to track them down, people pretending to cooperate or do business with them only so they could turn them in. The only thing they could do is sit on their precious bitcoin stash untouched while their conscience and regret eat them alive.

The bottom line is your logic is flawed. It presumes that people will never resist temptation, and treats self-respecting business people the same as the two-bit scammers who found opportunities in the first phases of bitcoin development. It ignores the ongoing shift towards professional businesses dominating the bitcoin ecosystem. You will never see another sort like Mark Karpeles having such an outsized level of control on people's bitcoins.

It is in the self interests of the exchanges to take all the coins and disappear. History repeats itself.

It is all about what they think the value of being honest is versus the value of Running Away With the Coins^TM.

A rise in bitcoin price will not make them more likely to do this because the commissions they get will be increasing in value too.  So I don't think you can expect just a rise to the "Moon" to end the bitcoin ecosystem.

There are also trust innovations, not to mention the possibility of regulation, all the time.

Are you fucking kidding me?
You say bitcoin will not succeed because people steal?
Get the fuck out of here.

Lol. The OP is probably really pissed by now. So many people disagreeing with him  ;D ;D

Threads like these are the reason I don't read these boards that much anymore


soo many misinformed and uneducated people, reading threads like these gives a me a sort of nasty brain freeze that ends up in a migraine


The price us learned people must pay for bitcoin to become mainstream  :'( >:(

you mean chairmen mao?

Too right. This place has turned into a complete shit hole full of trolls and noobs, not a good combination. Compare it with bitshares forum, they working on their decentralized exchange.. Enough said, fuck this thread.

Yep! it's like people are saying.
Man! i got too much , let's go invest in a ponzi or cloud mining or may be do a deal w/o Escrow or no i shall better leave my coins in an exchange

exactly. recently i have been seeing a lot of posts on bitcoin failing, it is doomed and shit like that. but in fact i think it is another wave of mass manipulation of price

Wow. If that's the thing that worries you, Bitcoin is fine...

Not to say that Exchanges won't be hacked, now or in the future...

But as Bitcoin continues its existance, companies handling other peoples Bitcoins will be more and more regulated.... Banking might not be the best model to name, so lets say Stock Brokerages... They typically hold billions and billions of other peoples cash and investments, and there isn't really a fear that they're going to close up shop and steal all of their customers assets...

That said; I am absolutely opposed to the idea of wallet services or storing ones coins on exhanges. Bitcoin seems like it's perfect to do away with that form of middle man, so I'm always surprised that so many people do, or that so many people expect that other would... Yes, if you need to buy or sell, by all means, transfer to an exchange, do your transaction, but then transfer the proceeds to a bank or wallet under your own control.

I do suppose that there is a problem that Bitcoin exchanges have that brokerages don't have - rogue employees; a rogue employee of a brokerage can transfer shares, yes, but as soon assomone notices that happened, they can be transferred back. Likewise for cash - bankers etc can wire their customers funds to outside accounts, but A) the transaction would be immediately linked to them or their login and B) the owner of the receiving account can be identified with relative ease.

Bitcoin does away with those protections... Supposing coins in a hot wallet aren't stored in multi-sig addresses, a rogue employee at a Bitcoin exchange could pretty easily step in and transfer the hot wallet elsewhere... Private keys and the blockchain don't require any identifiers from a user, so if someone happened to have access to the private key, coins could be sent without there being a direct link to who actually initiated the transaction. And figuring out the owner of the receiving address could be next to impossible.

But, these are all issues today, which is specifically why I don't think storing coins with another party is appropriate. And probably why the bitcoin exchanges, even in the future, could face a daunting challenge in trying to get affordable insurance coverage...

If you ever do have a million dollars in bitcoins, now or in the future, and needed to use an exchange... Or just wanted to leave them there, I'd hope you'd shop around and not leave them at a place like cryptsy... or even BTC-E, as solid as they seem, and having been responsible stewards of their users funds for years now, it's still difficult for me to feel comfortable leaving big balances there without knowing who the operators are. I'd end up opting for a U.S. based entity, where the ownerhsip is known and there is a strong rule of law... Not like that helps if coins get stolen and the exchange doesn't have enough reserved to repay, but one would think that a future scammer would realize the woes he could face here and would avoid setting up shop in the U.S. in the first place...

To circle back, though... Nothing you say doesn't already apply right now.  As more and more wealth is stored on the blockchain, though, hopefully those that acquire it will have the know how to secure their coins themselves... paper wallets, offline machines, etc, or at least will trust their fortunes to the exchanges whose operators are least likely to be malicious actors...

markets and thieves will go down.  the bitcoin they take will still exist and be redistributed again and again until people learn not to trust their coin to third party.  very simple.

Thats not a bitcoin problem.. You need to expand your mind a bit.. All of those businesses will be phased out for decentralized exchanges such as the ones bitshares provides..

In short they cant run away because they wont exist

This

By your logic, the large vaults would just run off with peoples valuable possessions.  "Hey, diamonds are valuable, we're going to run off with people's gems in the safe"

and banks and companies that hold people's possessions can pull inside jobs as well, just like bitcoin exchanges.

Cannot Succeed ? isn't it already succeeding ? the price doesn't need to keep increasing for it to succeed. Adoption is, which is very good right now.

Biggest flaw with your example of $1million per BTC is that you keep stating trading 1BTC and having too much exposure for that $1million on an exchange or wherever.

If BTC go to the moon and reach $1million per BTC, people would simply revert to trading lower decimal satoshis to accompany their own risk exposure all the way down to 1 single satoshi if the price go so high as you hinted.

The success of bitcoin do not depend on the price of bitcoin. It can be successful when price is $100 or $1000 per piece, the key element is price stability.

If all exchanges ran off with the bitcoin people entrusted them with, then the value of bitcoin would plummet quickly and the thieves would be burning their own profits.

All of this can be avoided if you move your funds off of an exchange as soon as you receive them, which bitcoin allows you to do, and which you should be doing to cold store said funds.

Why don't banks run off with all the money they have? I think it is worth to them more in the long run to have something of that value and if you are reliable you will get more profit because more people will come to you.

I don't agree with you.
For many people BTC is just another investment and if they see just falling prices of bitcoin for long time, they will give up from it and move to other ''big'' opportunities out there.
Without many users bitcoin will never become attractive for ''big'' merchants and eventually other virtual currencies will replace BTC.

speak for yourself.

[Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/iX9vlpv.jpg)

<a href="http://imgur.com/iX9vlpv"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/iX9vlpv.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

The answer: decentralized exchanges.  ;)

"Decentralized" is the buzzword of the day, especially insofar as Bitcoin goes. In the real world, though, it losses it's applicability.

Sure, someone could build a decentralized crypto--to--crypto exchange. Maybe. Even then, I'd have lots of questions, but there's no point in rattling them off until someone actually creates one.

But a decentralized Bitcoin to fiat exchanges? Impossible. The global financial system won't accommodate that. There will need to be a bank account or many bank accounts. Cash balances held. Wires sent and received. Which means there needs to be a person or company that owns and manages those accounts.

Decentralized could work in theory for a fully virtual currency, but once you have to handle fiat currency, the decentralized idea falls apart.

I see what you mean. There are still a lot of questions to be answered but like you said, all at its own pace.

By the way, the link in your signature is broken.

lol. That's why god invented MULTISIG ESCROW

You dont keep fiat on these offramps problem solved

God? Satoshi, you mean.

Hail.

Thanks for the catch - will fix!


If you're buying Bitcoins, you need to transfer cash to the exchange before you make your purchase. If you're selling Bitcoins, the exchange needs to collect the cash before it can send it to you. You can't hold cash in a decentralized manner. In its physical form, it is owned and held by someone. In its electronic form, it exists in bank accounts which need to be linked to either people or companies (and individual people within those companies).

So, if exchanges are the means of converting cash to Bitcoins and back (that's my definition of them, at least), then no, problem not solved.

Use bitusd which is decentralized usd.. then trade for bitcoin or whatever. Go back to usd by transfering back to your bank. account waiting 5 days to clear... problem solved :)

bitusd is the closest you will get to decentralized usd cash

This is your theory?
I don't think it is a problem.

You can have a decentralized "ledger" but no cash reserves held by any idividual or group.... that is where the main problem comes in.... It is those "single" accounts that create a problem.

Groups can still misuse the multisig escrow option... you would have to have someone outside of the daily operation, with no affiliation to the exchange to make that work. Who would donate their time to do this on a voluntary basis? {If you pay that person.... bribes comes into play.... money corrupts people}

I cannot see how this can ever work. {You will have to split the money pool into smaller quantities, to make it less "attractive" and more difficult to steal / hack}

The problems seems to come in, when the BTC is stored in one location..... {The carrot is too attractive} 

xD  He is not a god but a very intelligent human being. 

Wait just right there. How does “decentralized USD” work, if the USD is regulated by the Federal Reserve System, which is a central entity?

good luck sending your usd into a bank. Over 10,000 and they report it, and funds have already been frozen for being bitcoin related.

By the time we arrive to 1 000 000 $, the exchanges will be more professionnal and they will make so much that they will benefit staying in activity.
Owners should be well known and trusted.

yeah then satoshi comes back and dumps all his btc crashing the price.

ACtually that depends if the people who will be trading will be trading the same volume in terms of the BTC amount. if they trade in the amount in respect to fiat, then it will be the same fees.

Its just an iou to usd which is pegged to usd with some rules..

Who enforces the peg?

if the world is Russia, then your theory is correct. Otherwise, its a pure BS dude.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/03/02/article-russias-hypocrisy-bitcoin/

I think that this is the best argument in this discussion.
Only way for BTC to succeed is if users have the confidence in its future and stability.
If that trust is absent, BTC have no future and no chance to succeed.

Doesn't matter. Bitcoin will get inside russia no matter how much Faggotin and the rest of dictators try to ban freedom from their poor citizens.

"Crash"? Like, to what percentage do you think? And what do you think the Bitcoin faithful will do when faced with the prospect of incredibly cheap Bitcoin? Maybe buy? Maybe trending the price back up? Don't forget, any dump is only a one-time possibility.

ciao, man to the chaoman.

lol..yeah it is pretty easy to use anyways even though being banned in russia.. they can ban it but they cannot erase it.

At the point when Bitcoin reaches 1 million dollars, it will be so because it is widely accepted as currency and easy to use for daily purchases. That is to say, at the point when Bitcoin reaches 1 million dollars, you will not need to convert your Bitcoin into USD, you will only need to buy whatever it is you want to buy, (gasp!) with your bitcoin.  8)



https://i.imgur.com/gE8hDnY.jpg

I think just because the price of bitcoin has always known to be volatile, no one will be able to be confident about the price always being strong.

Bitcoin is only going to get bigger with more adoption. The masses are coming on board, it might take months or years but they are coming.

that is exactly how i feel. i think as long as the high volatility of bitcoin exists it will prevent its growth and mass adoptation. and that is going to hurt bitcoin

For ppl like me .. I enjoy the volatility of BTC.. I am a bit into trading..n thats how I make my money..lol..as per mass adoption is concerned.. I think the preice will be more stable or growing once mass adoption is achieved. lets see how it goes

Sorry but i need to stop you there  :) bitcoin is not reaching a million dollars not this year or next or 5 after that, we have been to 1000+ and one exchange did do a runner you a quite right but it will not be long before we have a peer to peer decentralized exchange hopefully with smartcontracts so no middle men! Then you have no reason of bitcoin not succeeding it will flourish without the greedy ones stealing peoples coin. 

I hope you are right here but we really need to see some ''big'' merchants accepting bitcoin as way of payment.
Without this, bitcoin will mostly be used as investment, and this will not help us.
Hope that we become mainstream soon.

It's hard to make longterm predictions, but I think that with time it will become more stable and survive.

You cant ban bitcoin, bitcoin will even get inside noth korea through underground circles. Wait and see.

Bitcoin prices wont always be so volatile, as it gets more accepted it will likely stabilise to the point where all exchanges have the same-ish price.
Not good news for the day-traders in the longterm ;)

I still think that the prices will be volatile for a while, however I do see what your point is.

What Bitcoin needs is an original and high-in-demand service/good that can only be paid for in Bitcoin, then we'd see a large increase in the value due to people purchasing Bitcoin to be able have/experience said item. All we need now is a good entrepreneur with a good idea.

In the end of the day, lots of btc "supporters"  are active on the exchanges, or sell/have sold a lot of btc.. face it most people want FIAT for their btc
Look at all the people mentioning  10.000$ a coin..they only get excited because of the idea they could (and probably would) quickly exchange their btc for a shitload of FIAT.

BTC will never be a currency this way, its just a playtoy to collect more FIAT.
And it will always be, if things go on like this and everyone is always on about " the price" of btc.

That's quite true , why would you trust some exchange ?
Though considering everyone same , ain't right . Just be safe on your side , Keep your coins out of exchanges and also BTC ain't going to a Million USD anytime soon or even not going that high either

The era of seedy unregulated, unsupervised offshore Exchange operators maybe coming to a close soon:

http://media.coindesk.com/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-23-at-5.09.30-PM-featureImage.png

Centralized, I know I know, but on the other hand the exchange operator will never up and leave for the Cayman Islands with your Bitcoin...

That's the only way at the moment of calculating buying power. If another method pops up then let us know.

If it ever did reach that price then the chances are that there'd be a closed loop economy that would be on the way to never having to 'cash out'.

that's because there is still almost no adoption, it will take many years for that, because a good amount is still in a few strong hands, the problem is that those strong hands will not let they capital drop too much, this might be a problem for a general adoption

the only real bitcoin problem is simply, the adoption/spreading of the coin, nothing else imho, the volatility is caused by that

It's funny to see a thread stating that bitcoin "cannot succeed" after it already has. Heck, I remember seeing threads saying "Bitcoin CAN NOT EVER be worth $1USD!".  :D

Newsflash. Bitcoin is already succeeding. I paid for dinner yesterday with Bitoin. I just got my groceries with Bitcoin. Guess what: it works! Flawlessly!

That's where Bitcoin comes in: we don't need 3rd parties or middle men anymore. Humans cannot be trusted, correct. That's why Bitcoin doesn't need trust. The rock solid cryptography that it's based on is all it needs.

The exchange problem is only temporarily (we're bound to have decentralized P2P exchanges sooner or later) and besides, exchanges ≠ Bitcoin. Exchanges are about trading one currency into another, so they are related to fiat just as much as crypto. Would you say that the Euro and Dollar cannot succeed, because of the trust problem with exchanges? Then why is it suddenly a problem for Bitcoin?

Price feeds fed in via the delegates.. then an incentive system to avoid swan events. Its decentralized with short long rules to keep within range

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/

I don't agree with all of your accusations for the failure of BTC @OP, but I think that one more thing you haven't mentioned is,
There are some directory which leak many of the private keys of so many addresses, not just limited to that, but you must have seen many of the exchanges getting hacked and coins stolen which puts a "?" in terms of the security which we are here for.

Might there be some reasons for the "UN-SUCCESS" of Bitcoins, I feel we should try to make it possible that this might not happen.
And if we can't do it, we should not be here talking about the possibilities of failure of BTC as if it ever fails, this means that we have all been doing nothing but are all maniacs and wasting our time.

We are here for the Bitcoin protocol and it's as solid as day 1. The fact people put their private keys on scams is not Bitcoin's fault.

Bitcoin is crypto, as far as most are concerned. If Bitcoin fails, there will be no successor, because then the perception will be that it can happen to any coin. Just stick with bitcoin, this is our future

I don't see why it should fail at this stage and especially after more than 5 years and there are so many changes done with it to bring it at this level.  Obviously those who predicted that bitcoin will fail in a year after its launch were wrong, and those people who said the very same thing is again saying the same thing. So will you rather believe them or just look at the facts right in front of you.

All those who predicted Bitcoin to fail fast have failed. The price recovered from going sub 200$ and 2015 looks good even with a strong Dollar (likely not for long)

Ok you guys are all right and I am wrong. 1 BTC will be worth 1000$.

I will wait until I am skeleton.

1000 is a reasonable price it could hit 1000 again,it went above 1000 twice already.

I'm with you man, the experiment is over.  Dunzo.  6 years is way too long for a burgeoning technology to fully mature...

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/250x250/54358387.jpg

You are right it can hit a thousand again without a doubt although it has been dropping for quite some time it is not over by any stretch of the imagination in fact it has only just begun.
People need to use their common sense storing their funds and not leaving it with the exchanges also storing their coins on a computer which is off line most of the time and never downloads anything. Bitcoin will not fail have some faith.

I just wait for the day that bitcoin is so widely accepted that it is a stand alone surrency and not valued with the USD

Best meme I have seen for a while and I can thoroughly relate to it :) hahahahahahah
Fantastic.

You are wrong.
1. People are taught every day to not keep big amounts on exchanges.
2. Bitcoin will not get to 1,000,000$ overnight. People will have time to be more cautious.
3. Exchanges already run on profit. They have various transaction and withdrawal fees. Also, don't forget: while your money is on exchange, you'll see only some numbers you can play with. Meanwhile the exchanges can use part of your money for other businesses and you will not miss them.

Why would they stop a good business to run with money? Ah greed. No. Not all exchanges are that greedy. Not all exchange users keep such big amounts there.

Yes people steal if you give them the opportunity. But it's not the reason for Bitcoin to fail.

Waiting for it to take off? You already missed that plane because it already happened.... but just came back to land again. Now we just gotta wait for it to happen again but it seems some people just don't have any patience.

I am still buying 1 bitcoin per week :)

Oh yes it's dead. You should move on.  ;)
Besides your bank needs your money more than ever now that some of us are gone for good.

Isn't this what the blockchain and miners are for, for community verification of the transactions. What control does Blockchain.info have over your transaction from cold wallet to cold wallet? (Not sarcastic, I don't know).

I can see how the bank style services (e.g. Coinbase) could appear risky and they'd probably need to provide some insurance ot get anyone's business, but the exchanges are just meeting places for the transaction. Like that spot under the buttonwood tree in lower Manhattan.

Assuming that trade volume would be on current level, BTC-e for example would earn 15396*0,2%= 30,7BTC = over 30 millions $ of daily income. Still tempting to commit robbery?  :D
But volume in single exchange couldn't be as huge as it is now, because:

- in most cases people will change some satoshis only
- world's BTC exchange volume would be dispersed on much more places and services than now, because such valuable asset surely will attract everybody's attention

I think by that time that happens the volume on many exchanges will fall massively, we may even go back to the talk of using mBTC for everything rather than whole bitcoins.

By that time i would hope we have decentralized exchanges p2p or something along them lines also we would be sure to go back to mBTC there will not be many buying up full coins for a million  ;D

Have to smile because i really cannot see them figures and that is not me being negative just the reality of the situation and no believing i could make that much money when you compere the kind of small investment to get that.

Exchanges have reason everyday to do a runner as said above but they don't so with higher price their fee's become higher = more reason to stay imo

if 1 bitcoin was worth 1 million I would not be keeping it with an exchange LOL maybe 0.000001 bitcoin yes