Bitcoin Cannot Succeed (heres why)

[moriartybitcoin]

lol. That's why god invented MULTISIG ESCROW

[sidhujag]

The answer: decentralized exchanges. 

"Decentralized" is the buzzword of the day, especially insofar as Bitcoin goes. In the real world, though, it losses it's applicability.

Sure, someone could build a decentralized crypto--to--crypto exchange. Maybe. Even then, I'd have lots of questions, but there's no point in rattling them off until someone actually creates one.

But a decentralized Bitcoin to fiat exchanges? Impossible. The global financial system won't accommodate that. There will need to be a bank account or many bank accounts. Cash balances held. Wires sent and received. Which means there needs to be a person or company that owns and manages those accounts.

Decentralized could work in theory for a fully virtual currency, but once you have to handle fiat currency, the decentralized idea falls apart.

You dont keep fiat on these offramps problem solved

[jeffhuys]

lol. That's why god invented MULTISIG ESCROW

God? Satoshi, you mean.

Hail.

[lucasjkr]

By the way, the link in your signature is broken.

Thanks for the catch - will fix!

The answer: decentralized exchanges. 

"Decentralized" is the buzzword of the day, especially insofar as Bitcoin goes. In the real world, though, it losses it's applicability.

Sure, someone could build a decentralized crypto--to--crypto exchange. Maybe. Even then, I'd have lots of questions, but there's no point in rattling them off until someone actually creates one.

But a decentralized Bitcoin to fiat exchanges? Impossible. The global financial system won't accommodate that. There will need to be a bank account or many bank accounts. Cash balances held. Wires sent and received. Which means there needs to be a person or company that owns and manages those accounts.

Decentralized could work in theory for a fully virtual currency, but once you have to handle fiat currency, the decentralized idea falls apart.

You dont keep fiat on these offramps problem solved

If you're buying Bitcoins, you need to transfer cash to the exchange before you make your purchase. If you're selling Bitcoins, the exchange needs to collect the cash before it can send it to you. You can't hold cash in a decentralized manner. In its physical form, it is owned and held by someone. In its electronic form, it exists in bank accounts which need to be linked to either people or companies (and individual people within those companies).

So, if exchanges are the means of converting cash to Bitcoins and back (that's my definition of them, at least), then no, problem not solved.

[sidhujag]

By the way, the link in your signature is broken.

Thanks for the catch - will fix!

The answer: decentralized exchanges.  

"Decentralized" is the buzzword of the day, especially insofar as Bitcoin goes. In the real world, though, it losses it's applicability.

Sure, someone could build a decentralized crypto--to--crypto exchange. Maybe. Even then, I'd have lots of questions, but there's no point in rattling them off until someone actually creates one.

But a decentralized Bitcoin to fiat exchanges? Impossible. The global financial system won't accommodate that. There will need to be a bank account or many bank accounts. Cash balances held. Wires sent and received. Which means there needs to be a person or company that owns and manages those accounts.

Decentralized could work in theory for a fully virtual currency, but once you have to handle fiat currency, the decentralized idea falls apart.

You dont keep fiat on these offramps problem solved

If you're buying Bitcoins, you need to transfer cash to the exchange before you make your purchase. If you're selling Bitcoins, the exchange needs to collect the cash before it can send it to you. You can't hold cash in a decentralized manner. In its physical form, it is owned and held by someone. In its electronic form, it exists in bank accounts which need to be linked to either people or companies (and individual people within those companies).

So, if exchanges are the means of converting cash to Bitcoins and back (that's my definition of them, at least), then no, problem not solved.

Use bitusd which is decentralized usd.. then trade for bitcoin or whatever. Go back to usd by transfering back to your bank. account waiting 5 days to clear... problem solved

bitusd is the closest you will get to decentralized usd cash

[Agestorzrxx]

First of all I would like to start this off by stating that I am a believer in the possibility of the success of Bitcoin. This may seem like a contradiction with the title of the thread but it is not. This is because the possibility of success is very low due to the reasons which I am going to describe. At the moment bitcoin is 250$ and has been there for quite a while. Exchanges such as cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, ect. exist to exchange btc to usd and btc to other alt coins. Circle and coinbase exchange btc to usd and are currently common way to receive USD from BTC. That is a brief summary of the current ecosystem.

Now let us imagine that bitcoin reaches "the moon" as is often wished for in the Bitcoin community. Let us imagine that one BTC is worth 1 million dollars. It is commonly accepted that these exchanges, cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, circle, coinbase, ect. are for profit. They are not running their businesses out of altruism, but for profit. If one bitcoin is worth one million dollars, how is it remotely imaginable that these exchanges will not just run off with the coins? Even more if I have one btc at one million dollars, I will have to go through some sort of intermediary to receive my USD. This intermediary will run off with the coin because of its massive value.

The issue is a facet of human nature, greed. One bitcoin would not even have to reach 1 million usd for the above scenario to become a reality. How high does btc have to go? The 1k mark was enough for mt gox, 2k...would there still be trust? Would they all run off with the BTC? Ok how about 40k?

This is the problem of bitcoin. People steal. Especially when it is irreversible.

This is your theory?
I don't think it is a problem.

[Kprawn]

You can have a decentralized "ledger" but no cash reserves held by any idividual or group.... that is where the main problem comes in.... It is those "single" accounts that create a problem.

Groups can still misuse the multisig escrow option... you would have to have someone outside of the daily operation, with no affiliation to the exchange to make that work. Who would donate their time to do this on a voluntary basis? {If you pay that person.... bribes comes into play.... money corrupts people}

I cannot see how this can ever work. {You will have to split the money pool into smaller quantities, to make it less "attractive" and more difficult to steal / hack}

The problems seems to come in, when the BTC is stored in one location..... {The carrot is too attractive} 

[PenguinFire]

lol. That's why god invented MULTISIG ESCROW

God? Satoshi, you mean.

Hail.

xD  He is not a god but a very intelligent human being. 

[R2D221]

Use bitusd which is decentralized usd..

Wait just right there. How does “decentralized USD” work, if the USD is regulated by the Federal Reserve System, which is a central entity?

[chaoman]

good luck sending your usd into a bank. Over 10,000 and they report it, and funds have already been frozen for being bitcoin related.

[picolo]

First of all I would like to start this off by stating that I am a believer in the possibility of the success of Bitcoin. This may seem like a contradiction with the title of the thread but it is not. This is because the possibility of success is very low due to the reasons which I am going to describe. At the moment bitcoin is 250$ and has been there for quite a while. Exchanges such as cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, ect. exist to exchange btc to usd and btc to other alt coins. Circle and coinbase exchange btc to usd and are currently common way to receive USD from BTC. That is a brief summary of the current ecosystem.

Now let us imagine that bitcoin reaches "the moon" as is often wished for in the Bitcoin community. Let us imagine that one BTC is worth 1 million dollars. It is commonly accepted that these exchanges, cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, circle, coinbase, ect. are for profit. They are not running their businesses out of altruism, but for profit. If one bitcoin is worth one million dollars, how is it remotely imaginable that these exchanges will not just run off with the coins? Even more if I have one btc at one million dollars, I will have to go through some sort of intermediary to receive my USD. This intermediary will run off with the coin because of its massive value.

The issue is a facet of human nature, greed. One bitcoin would not even have to reach 1 million usd for the above scenario to become a reality. How high does btc have to go? The 1k mark was enough for mt gox, 2k...would there still be trust? Would they all run off with the BTC? Ok how about 40k?

This is the problem of bitcoin. People steal. Especially when it is irreversible.

By the time we arrive to 1 000 000 $, the exchanges will be more professionnal and they will make so much that they will benefit staying in activity.
Owners should be well known and trusted.

[chaoman]

First of all I would like to start this off by stating that I am a believer in the possibility of the success of Bitcoin. This may seem like a contradiction with the title of the thread but it is not. This is because the possibility of success is very low due to the reasons which I am going to describe. At the moment bitcoin is 250$ and has been there for quite a while. Exchanges such as cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, ect. exist to exchange btc to usd and btc to other alt coins. Circle and coinbase exchange btc to usd and are currently common way to receive USD from BTC. That is a brief summary of the current ecosystem.

Now let us imagine that bitcoin reaches "the moon" as is often wished for in the Bitcoin community. Let us imagine that one BTC is worth 1 million dollars. It is commonly accepted that these exchanges, cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, circle, coinbase, ect. are for profit. They are not running their businesses out of altruism, but for profit. If one bitcoin is worth one million dollars, how is it remotely imaginable that these exchanges will not just run off with the coins? Even more if I have one btc at one million dollars, I will have to go through some sort of intermediary to receive my USD. This intermediary will run off with the coin because of its massive value.

The issue is a facet of human nature, greed. One bitcoin would not even have to reach 1 million usd for the above scenario to become a reality. How high does btc have to go? The 1k mark was enough for mt gox, 2k...would there still be trust? Would they all run off with the BTC? Ok how about 40k?

This is the problem of bitcoin. People steal. Especially when it is irreversible.

By the time we arrive to 1 000 000 $, the exchanges will be more professionnal and they will make so much that they will benefit staying in activity.
Owners should be well known and trusted.

yeah then satoshi comes back and dumps all his btc crashing the price.

[dsly]

First of all I would like to start this off by stating that I am a believer in the possibility of the success of Bitcoin. This may seem like a contradiction with the title of the thread but it is not. This is because the possibility of success is very low due to the reasons which I am going to describe. At the moment bitcoin is 250$ and has been there for quite a while. Exchanges such as cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, ect. exist to exchange btc to usd and btc to other alt coins. Circle and coinbase exchange btc to usd and are currently common way to receive USD from BTC. That is a brief summary of the current ecosystem.

Now let us imagine that bitcoin reaches "the moon" as is often wished for in the Bitcoin community. Let us imagine that one BTC is worth 1 million dollars. It is commonly accepted that these exchanges, cryptsy, poloniex, btc-e, circle, coinbase, ect. are for profit. They are not running their businesses out of altruism, but for profit. If one bitcoin is worth one million dollars, how is it remotely imaginable that these exchanges will not just run off with the coins? Even more if I have one btc at one million dollars, I will have to go through some sort of intermediary to receive my USD. This intermediary will run off with the coin because of its massive value.

The issue is a facet of human nature, greed. One bitcoin would not even have to reach 1 million usd for the above scenario to become a reality. How high does btc have to go? The 1k mark was enough for mt gox, 2k...would there still be trust? Would they all run off with the BTC? Ok how about 40k?

This is the problem of bitcoin. People steal. Especially when it is irreversible.

By the time we arrive to 1 000 000 $, the exchanges will be more professionnal and they will make so much that they will benefit staying in activity.
Owners should be well known and trusted.

ACtually that depends if the people who will be trading will be trading the same volume in terms of the BTC amount. if they trade in the amount in respect to fiat, then it will be the same fees.

[sidhujag]

Use bitusd which is decentralized usd..

Wait just right there. How does “decentralized USD” work, if the USD is regulated by the Federal Reserve System, which is a central entity?

Its just an iou to usd which is pegged to usd with some rules..

[R2D221]

Use bitusd which is decentralized usd..

Wait just right there. How does “decentralized USD” work, if the USD is regulated by the Federal Reserve System, which is a central entity?

Its just an iou to usd which is pegged to usd with some rules..

Who enforces the peg?

[virtuose247]

if the world is Russia, then your theory is correct. Otherwise, its a pure BS dude.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/03/02/article-russias-hypocrisy-bitcoin/

[Daniel91]

First of all I would like to start this off by stating that I am a believer in the possibility of the success of Bitcoin. This may seem like a contradiction with the title of the thread but it is not. This is because the possibility of success is very low due to the reasons which I am going to describe.

The success of bitcoin do not depend on the price of bitcoin. It can be successful when price is $100 or $1000 per piece, the key element is price stability.

I think that this is the best argument in this discussion.
Only way for BTC to succeed is if users have the confidence in its future and stability.
If that trust is absent, BTC have no future and no chance to succeed.

[thejaytiesto]

if the world is Russia, then your theory is correct. Otherwise, its a pure BS dude.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/03/02/article-russias-hypocrisy-bitcoin/

Doesn't matter. Bitcoin will get inside russia no matter how much Faggotin and the rest of dictators try to ban freedom from their poor citizens.

[jbreher]

<the sky is falling, and we are all going to hell> - paraphrased

<simple obvious rebuttal destroys original doom and gloom premise>

yeah then satoshi comes back and dumps all his btc crashing the price. <also known as bait and switch - sorry, but moving to a completely different premise forfeits the original point>

"Crash"? Like, to what percentage do you think? And what do you think the Bitcoin faithful will do when faced with the prospect of incredibly cheap Bitcoin? Maybe buy? Maybe trending the price back up? Don't forget, any dump is only a one-time possibility.

ciao, man to the chaoman.

[nikona]

if the world is Russia, then your theory is correct. Otherwise, its a pure BS dude.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/03/02/article-russias-hypocrisy-bitcoin/

Doesn't matter. Bitcoin will get inside russia no matter how much Faggotin and the rest of dictators try to ban freedom from their poor citizens.

lol..yeah it is pretty easy to use anyways even though being banned in russia.. they can ban it but they cannot erase it.