Bitcoin Forum

Hello,
I read many things about transfees(not be included in a block)
Any I saw many transactions without fees and still getting confirmed.
How is that possible and how can I actually do it?

Well the rule of thumb is never send a transaction without a fee. It may take a month to confirm. The prioirity is low for such transactions.

Just use a wallet that lets you set the fee (I can't find a way to do it with Multi-bit, but Electrum lets you set your fee), and give it a try. It might take days for the transaction to go through, though, so don't try it with an important sum of BTC.

In general, though, I wish people would just pony up the 2.8 cents and feel good about supporting the network...

Yes,Multibit does not allow its users to be able to change the fees themselves. It is permanently set to 0.0001

Is it possible to somehow set the fees in the original bitcoin-qt?

It was certainly possible, and I don't know if it has changed, but instead of thinking how to use the network for free, you'd better think about how to make it fast and sustainable. If I were a miner, there's no way I would let a transaction go through without a fee.

Think about the miner's point of view: why should he accept transactions without a fee?

Or use a wallet that let's you set the fee per kb.

As long as your transaction is small enough (in terms of the size measured in kb) then pools will confirm a no transaction fee. The max size that pools will accept not containing fees varies from pool to pool.

There are other considerations that pools take into consideration as well when determining if they will confirm a no tx fee transaction, including (but not limited to): number of bitcoin days destroyed, size (measured by amount of bitcoin) of both the inputs and outputs. Again the policies regarding the criteria to allow transactions to be included in a found block varies from pool to pool.

Generally speaking, if you include a transaction fee of .0001 (equal to roughly 2.8 cents) then your transaction will be included in the next found block. IMO this is a very small price to pay for next block confirmation

That's true for big transactions.
Let's suppose you are sending 0.03 btc to someone , so generally you pay 0.0001 as transaction fees , but i sometimes crop it to half i.e. 0.00005 and still get same confirmation time, though it is not recommended and before you use them , Remember that they might take some days to pass

You can send sometimes transactions without fees but you have to be care with what you do it, I never send it without fees so I don't have to worry about if it arrives

In general, paying a fee of 0.00005 per kb is the same as paying nothing. However, each miner sets their own fee policy, so some miners might choose a transaction paying 0.00005 per kb over a transaction paying no fee.

The fees are sooo small...
Just pay them like everyone else.

this fee helps the bitcoin network running and its not much its not worth much for one , but there are some wallets who allow to change the fee but once it take 3 days almost

yes, to change the rates (reducing) probably will cause the very long transaction

...

kingcolex, Alexis, countryfree, lolled and ebliever

I'm with you guys.  Just pay the 3 cents...

:)

To keep the miners in business and the BTC network maintained, three cents is almost nothing, a bargain.

What are you guys talking about?

99.5% of what keeps the network running is the reward of 25 BTC,
compared to that, ~0.1BTC in fees is nothing, that's not what keeps a miner in business.

Im using bitcoin core 0.10, and it lets you to decide on the fees or no fees option, and also provides an auto estimation on how much the
fee should be for the transaction to be processed quickly.

theres some more info here (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.10/doc/release-notes.md#0100-change-log)for those who are like me and still dont use those fancy wallets everyone has today.

@op just pay the fee, its not worth it waiting possibly days/weeks for your transaction to be confirmed (unless its something realy small), and the fee is funny,
dont know why some people make such a fuss about it.

cheers

i found out that it is possible to send a transaction without any fees but in fact changing the fees depend on your wallet!
my experience is if you are using blockchain.info you can easily change it to zero and send it if it is not confirmed within 2 days it will be rebroadcasted automatically until it gets confirmed.
if you are using Multibit or Electrum the only way to change the fee is to change the coding and compile the wallet again!

Multibit doesn't allow you to change the fees. Trying to coding and compiling the wallet yourself, can complicate things and is not recommended.

How is it that some people are able to send low fee transactions and get faster confirmations? I have received couple of transactions in the past where the sender sent with fee as low as 300-400 satoshi and they got confirmed within a few minutes. And I always add 10k Sats miner fee at-least yet my TXs take a long time to confirm.

If you really need to test it out, one of the ways to do it is to use electrum wallet which allows you to adjust the fees. But I wouldn't move to that and take that kind of risk. The transaction might be stuck for days which happened before to me before. And also paying the standard 0.0001 fee might not be a bad thing after all. It's still very cheap compared to the other money transfer options. 

It has to do with the size of the transaction, the amount is made up of parts of other blocks to meet the value, if it is put together with a lot of small amounts the size in kb is bigger then when it is put together by bigger chunks.

If you send an transaction without a fee , it will work. However its gonna take shitload of time , and you should pay at a minimum a 10k sat fee for fast transactions.

This lucky tx (https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/0cea77f38e034cf2084a2fd11e11ef1c4423aa2363e53a1f80a961a9677510d9) got confirmed after 5 hrs and 40 mins. lol

That depend on the size of transaction. I already try many times before and the transaction not long but not fast enough yet still confirmed

I see. Thanks for your explanation, I understand a little about it, I guess I have to read on about TX fees in details to understand completely how it's done.

This is incorrect so far as Electrum goes. I'm using v. 1.9.8. In it go to Tools-->Preferences, and you will see the field Transaction Fee that you can edit. So far as I know there are no limits on what you can put there for a fee. The Help tool-tip for it does recommend a value of .0002 BTC.

You have to use a wallet where you can manually define which fee you want to pay. Most wallets do this automatically. Miners may decide freely which transactions they include in a block, some may thus opt to just include some free transactions, even if it reduces their chance of having the block on the main-chain slightly (transfer time of a bigger block)

Though that might be true , but for small transaction which are mostly in bytes i never pay 0.0001 fees but 0.00005 and the confirmation time is same as other

Whether maybe because the transaction volume?
is better to pay dust for smooth transaction :)


~iki

dont you even want to pay 0.0001 for using a free service ? Though that might be true , but for small transaction which are mostly in bytes i never pay 0.0001 fees but 0.00005 and the confirmation time is same as other

That is pretty interesting but seeing how the transaction is in bytes , it's no wonder that works .
Have you tried it for bigger transaction ?
BTW just wondering , what do you do saving 0.00005 btc ? :-\

Every transaction has a "priority" calcuated by the value, confirmations of its inputs, and transaction size. If you mature some coins long enough and transaction size is below 1k, you can send it for free. The theory says you rest 1 btc for 1 day, you can send it for free. In practice, it's not that simple. Don't try it if you are not sure, attach a fee and have peace of mind.

If you mature some coins long enough and transaction size is below 1k, you can send it for free

Never knew this , so let us suppose if a address like this

https://blockchain.info/address/1CFBdvaiZgZPTZERqnezAtDQJuGHKoHSzg

ever gets active and decides to send the coin , he /she/they can send it without fees and still get it confirmed ?

I know the problem with confirmations and I can easily afford the fess, I am just curious about the fees etc.
Many of you say miners wouldnt accept the transaction without fees, so can a miner set what kind of transactions they want to include in a block or is it just the network doing it randomly?

Nope! never took risks with bigger transaction as i see what happen to them.
Well! 0.00005 btc is more than what Faucets pay ;)

use blockchain.info wallet, they let you set a fee of 0

You can get away with it only if your coins are old, because the main purpose of the fee is to defeat spam. So if you rarely move your coins, you are good.

Miners are free to set their own policy for determining which transactions are included and which are not. Most miners follow Bitcoin Core's policy, but some do not.

The address you linked has 50btc in it and has been resting for years. It will qualify for a free transaction. It might not get confirmation within minutes, but I am sure it will eventually. It is up to the miners whether to accept transactions with no fees. Most do.

I have done it some times but you have to be careful with dust transactions, I wouldn't do it with high amounts, it is risky

i hope you aren't trying to figure out how to spam.  in any case large btc sums without fees seem to confirm just as fast as small ones with fees.  also small kb transactions such as those not made of many small pieces also confirm without fees.

Are you really sure , this happens ?
Let us suppose , for experiment purposes i leave 2-5 btc in a wallet for 3-4  months and then send that in 2-5 transactions with 1 BTC in each transaction , totally w/o fees , Because that's what happens in PoS ,the older the coins the more the stake .
I really do not understand what does it have to do here , a miner won't get anything on it .
Never mined any coins.
Can someone tell if that's correct and also would love if someone can show me a Screenshot of what a miner see's during mining, i mean how does he know what to accept or how old are bitcoin(as stated above)

From experience, you don't even have to leave them that long. I've had a transaction of just 0.1 BTC that sat for a couple days and I was still able to send 0.01 BTC without a fee. It took around 3 blocks to be confirmed, but that's not a big issue.

I've had smaller transactions that took up to a day.

I mean when you really think about it, though, the minimum fee was changed to what, like 0.00002 BTC? That's negligible.

0.0001 BTC ain't much to pay , it's just for experimental purposes .
Am sorry i haven't done any former experiments with it.
Could you explain the mean of term , the minimum fee was changed to what, like 0.00002 BTC?
As i understand the minimum fee is 0.0001 BTC
~Regards koelen3

A while back, the fee changed to the following:

0.0001 BTC -> high priority
0.00001 BTC -> medium priority

My understanding is that 0.00002 is the safest, since it's above medium but below high (which should put it closer to high).

[quote author=koelen3 link=topic=975178.msg10658643#msg10658643 date=142549275
Are you really sure , this happens ?
Let us suppose , for experiment purposes i leave 2-5 btc in a wallet for 3-4  months and then send that in 2-5 transactions with 1 BTC in each transaction , totally w/o fees , Because that's what happens in PoS ,the older the coins the more the stake .
I really do not understand what does it have to do here , a miner won't get anything on it .
Never mined any coins.
Can someone tell if that's correct and also would love if someone can show me a Screenshot of what a miner see's during mining, i mean how does he know what to accept or how old are bitcoin(as stated above)
[/quote]


You likely need a pool operator to send you that screenshot as
most miners simply attach to pools and hash whatever their pool provides.
Most miners don't deal with such details.
Or perhaps someone who is just mining as a hobby might show you their criteria for what they prefer to include in their attempts.

I got some transactions with no fee and it didn't took months. Just 14 hours for the first confirmation.

I think also with 1000 satoshi your transaction will be confirmed in the next 30 minutes but it depends also of the weight of the TX itself.  I pay always 1'000 satoshi and for me it is fine but sometimes I also pay 10'000 satoshi it is just a few cents of dollar (much less than a bank transfer).

Good , means i can use medium priority for not so important transactions .Thank you
Where am i supposed to find a pool miner of bitcoin ?

seems good.
Means if i want to get superfast confirmation , 100,000(very high priority ) will do the deal?

Thank you everyone for the help.
Would be awesome if someone could tell me or direct me to where i can see a screenshot of miner's screen
~Regards koelen3

my experience if confirmation is too long, the cost will be free  :)

Honestly it is so much easier to just use a transaction fee of like less than a cent... Otherwise you run the risk of it not confirming for a long time.

Perhaps I should restate -
only pool operators and persons who are interested in the mechanisms of mining
will be dealing with the details of transaction prioritization based on fees and so on.
 
All others who mine do so blindly, only performing work allocated to them by their pools.
They do not exercise choice much beyond choosing a pool(s) to work with.
So you need to strike up a conversation with a pool operator or a solo mining enthusiast.

Thank you but i do understand but that's exactly why am asking , because it's hard to find a pool operator or a solo miner.
Anyways i will search in mining Section :)

This would be no different than 0.0001 BTC at the current time. Technically if the blocks were full every single time, it would prioritize based on highest fees first (i.e., a 1 BTC fee would come before a 0.99 BTC fee and so on). But as it is, 0.0001 will get it into the next available block almost 100% of the time.

Okay so i don't need to make it more than 0.0001 BTC even if i want High priority.
That sounds good enough :)
Thank you

it takes 4days to conform the transaction when i tryed it..really never try that

I'd say miners & pools have a vested interest as many of them consider encouraging people to pay fees by only including transactions with fees. If nobody was paying fees they might not earn enough to get by and this would result soon in them stopping the mining and weakening the whole bitcoin networking.

Sending btc without transaction fees are like sending a mail without a stamp :-\
Transaction fees are important so that your transaction will be confirmed
Note:Sending btc without transaction fees might make your transaction uncomfirmable
theres always a risk in the easy way

Yes! the miners will always encourage others for it!
But i don't understand why will it weaken the bitcoin network.
As i understand , if suppose half miners leave the mining , we still have other half right ?
They will find one block every 10 minutes , no matter how much hashing power we loose.
The difficulty is increasing but so are miners and thus making it hard for others.
If only 10-20 miners remain with some Ph/s with each miner , the transaction will still happen and bitcoin network will be stable , implied no one owns 51% or more of the hashing power.

One day I've sent a big transaction of ~5 btc with zero fee and it was confirmed in less than 30 min. Maybe I was lucky or maybe it was the 5 btc I dunno know. Now I put always  0.0001 bitcoin as fee and for me is very fine, it is less than 0,02 $ !

Correct. If you want to push yourself above everyone else just to ensure you're at the top of the list, you can do 0.0002 BTC. But really, that's not necessary unless blocks start filling up on a regular basis.

Zero-fee transactions are based on the weight of the transaction, which takes into consideration the input size, output size, and age. If you held 0.1 BTC for a day, you'd already have enough weight to negate the need for fees (if you were sending at least 0.01 BTC). 5 BTC was way overkill for the system.

 I like the term "weight" to mean the size in bytes. Generally, the "size" of a transaction is considered to be its value, so a term like "weight", which also implies a burden, is better. I'm going to use it from now on.

Is the weight calculated in the amount of bitcoin or the amount of adresses sending Transactions?
Like 1 adress sends 5 btc or 100 adresses send 0.1 btc together?

The weight/size is calculated in base of how much inputs your transaction has, if it has 2 inputs it will have a little weight instead if it will have 3-4 or more inputs its weight is more than the other (and you should put an "high" fee).

Weight is in relation to its importance in the network, NOT its cost. Higher weight = higher priority to be added. I think you're getting terms confused here. In fact, it's the opposite of what you said: higher weight = LESS fees needed, since it's already a high-priority transaction.

Let's make a little example , this transaction :  https://blockchain.info/en/tx/629b20c359a465dae1f7bee99dadf8eb797e7f1087deca56248388a220c7240a

Size   372 (bytes)     0.0001 BTC btc as fee  |  2 inputs

---

The size is the weight. If the transaction has more weight it needed "more" fee, now let's suppose that transaction has 1800 byte with only 1000 satoshi as fee. I think it will not confirmed fast as the other. Correct me again if I am wrong.

---

Wow, thanks for the explanation!
So is it possible that I send 0.01 btc with 100 inputs but no fee, will it still be confirmed as normal, because the size is big or will it be longer than usual/skips blocks?

I didn't read your post closely enough. I still prefer the "weight" of a transaction to be the size in bytes, even though there still might be some confusion. Is there precedence in using the term weight to me importance of the transaction? Is there a better term that could be used?

Very good question. In the crypto world, verbiage is always being changed. For example, some still count BTCs in bitcoins, while others do it in bits.

Weight is one of those things... but it's pretty common to use the term "stake weight" to determine your power on the network (i.e. chances of staking a block, relative to others), and that's so widespread that I think changing it would only cause more confusion.

I do agree that "size" has an unclear definition, as well. Size could be bytes or it could be coins being sent. It's often used interchangeably and really shouldn't be.

What we need is a solid group of definitions that everyone pulls from.