Bitcoin Forum

Is Regulation The End For Bitcoin?

http://bitforum.info/t/is-regulation-the-end-for-bitcoin/396

Maybe bitcoiners doesnt say this out loud but majority of us question ourselves, if Bitcoin will be regulated. Would it be the end?

I mean, if there is a central entity that regulates Bitcoin, do you think that they're regulation would be 'limited' or will they violate a bitcoiners privacy for the sake of 'regulation'?

In the article, it reads the advantages of regulation.

Can you give out negative effects if Bitcoin is regulated?

First of all, it will become like other things. And that's not good.
Secondly, it will lose all that is fascinating about it.

 8)

I think the harder it is to get, the more valuable it becomes. And talks about regulation, how is that possible for someone to actually control it? The idea behind bitcoin principle and creation is not for it to be controlled by anybody. They will just have to shut down the internet in order to do that. And even if somehow there is a way to regulate, can somebody ensure that it will always be fair and done in the best interest of bitcoin

Regulation is a good thing.
Regulation means, that there is a rulebook, about how to use Bitcoin. That means, that government institutions can not act arbitrary.
Today, if you want to found a business and ask a government institution about how to do it(even if it is not a BTC business, you have to follow some rules), you get an official, who doesn't like Bitcoin and just tells you bullshit. I know a business owner, who would like to use Bitcoin, but he is just to afraid, that he might get into trouble and doesn't want to endanger the (not BTC)company he build over the last years.
No Regulations means less innovation.
Regulation also means, that people can't say anymore, that Bitcoin is illegal money.

Sure, if there are too strict regulations, it might hurt Bitcoin, but I don't think, that will happen and even if it happens e.g. in the USA: Bitcoin is Internet money, just move your business to a country, with less strict regulations.

It definitely wouldn't mean the end for Bitcoin. Some form of regulation is actually needed if we ever want to see Bitcoin go mainstream. There is no way the powers that be will allow the 'wild west' back into the system. It doesn't matter how innovative the idea is, if it can't be controlled, it's not getting in. Regulation doesn't necessarily mean the end of privacy and anonymity either, at least not completely.

i think the most affected if bitcoin is regulated is about privacy
now we can say bitcoin is anonymous, but if bitcoin is reglated i don't think so

I can't see how bitcoin could be regulated so I don't think it's anything we need to worry about just yet.

Supposing it could it would mean a lot more bureacracy and red-tape, something I'm not too keen on. If bitcoin turns into Fedcoin I'm sure a lot of hodlers will be switching to alt currencies.

Bitcoin and the blockchain itself cannot be regulated. Governments will make laws around it, collect taxes on your wallet, they will try to enforce their will upon the bitcoin community. They might even ban the use of bitcoin. Bad thing indeed.

Depends on the level of regulation. If it's insanely taxed and you have to jump through hoops to use/spend/sell it then maybe, but likely regulation will just be the same as everything else and expected. If it is to exceed as a currency then it's natural it will be regulated in some capacity.

Regulation is actually just a natural process if you want bitcoin to succeed, but of course whether it is dangerous or not is the level of regulation. Governments could certainly throttle and tie it down with needless laws and regulation but hopefully it won't be this severe. Governments are going to want their tax cut percentage in purchases though so if you think you can use it forever to avoid this you're very wrong.

Bitcoin is already the most regulated currency ever to exist.  ALL new coin issuance, and ALL transactions are fully transparent and regulated by all participants and any and all citizens of the planet. 

So, regulation is the beginning not the end, and always has been the core of bitcoin's strength. 

However, this obvious fact assumes that we use the meaning of words as they are described by dictionaries. 


I am well aware that many times words have hidden meanings, and in the case of "regulated" we sometimes mean, subject to a criminal psychopathic heirarchy and immediate change using the tools of fear by anyone who would so choose to use them. 

Public coin is like the moon (please excuse the common analogy).  The motion is perfectly regulated by well known and documented natural law.  However, there is no way for me when i am on some tragic pharmaceutical downturn to threaten anyone with violence, blackmail, etc.  to effect its motion.  Hence:  "unregulated".   And so it will stay. 

 

Govt regulation could be the end of it, as for example someone in Chine why should care about US or EU regulations and vica-versa so in some cases that could led to hard-forks (like the debate around the 20MB fork).

To be honest, I am still not totally sold out with the idea of regulation.
What if the goverment make bitcoin use a criminal activity? Theres nothing we could do.

Is Regulation The End for Bitcoin?

http://insidebitcoins.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IBContinuingCoveageBitLicenseRegs2.jpg

http://247cryptonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Header-news-Gemini.png


Nope.

Next question...

There is something we can do, we can do the same as what we have been doing if we believe in it, it is decentralized and they cannot stop us if we do not want them to. The only regulation i would agree with is all the centralized parts of bitcoin at the moment to begin with exchanges unless they become decentralized pretty soon they should be regulated because they have proven they need to be. I will be in crypto whatever happens :)

Regulation is needed or else the whole ecosystem will be a wild west and regular people won't join the network, so there has to be trust.

Didnt you think that this regulation is backed up by other bitcoin loyalist who just want to make a more civilized bitcoin world.
Regulation will not be the end but just a start for bitcoin.

Total cluelessness noted. 

Agreed ^. Bitcoin runs completely fine without any governmental intrusion or regulation. The network and users regulates itself and that is the beauty of bitcoin. People were using and transacting with it just fine for years without any regulation so I don't see your logic.

When Bitcoin finally becomes fully regulated and widely used like MasterCard I think many early adopters will sell out their holdings at the first giant price spike and stop coming here to post. Think about it, do you go over and hang out at the MasterCard forum? Of course not because MasterCard isn't trendy-edgy-cool. Bitcoin won't be either at that point.

In terms of protocol ; I dont believe Bitcoin can be regulated by any goverment.

However, in terms of currency ,Bitcoin can be regulated and be taxed etc. Goverments can make some restrictions what people can do with Bitcoin.

I agree with you.
After all, it's all about business and money.
If early adopters think that bitcoin is good investment, they will stick with it, regulated or not regulated.

How much like a couple thousand? Trust me bitcoin won't go mainstream if its not regulated, 99% of people won't use it.

Have to whole-heartedly agree there.  Bitcoin will die before it's even out of beta, if we don't get things like consumer and fraud protection in place.  Insurance is another factor.

All the Gox'ing, Stamp'ing, Mycoin'ing, Neo and Bees, and continuous scams will prevent Bitcoin from maturing and taking off if only the 200,000 or so Bitcoin users in the world use it.  Need to add a few a more decimals to that figure, and only way to do that is to provide protection.

Can you give reasons why they would do that when bitcoin network effect surpasses that of mastercard? The fact of the matter is bitcoin allows you to make transactions without the middle man so even if its regulated i can still send people money p2p without a middleman.

+1 one of the reasons why bitcoins has been crashing big time and that for a couple times is because unregulated exchanges and incompetent people running those.

Where do you buy your coins?

You can't really "regulate" bit coin. You can regulate people. The borderless nature of bitcoin makes it impossible to ever completely control it or the people using it. I think current consumer laws provide a framework for protection, it is simply a question of law enforcement catching up.

And where do you buy your fiat tokens? 

The blockchain will treat any harmful regulation as damage to the system, and will route around it as indifferently as a river routes around a boulder.

I feel that it's better that bitcoins are regulated. It will be more safer to use and a recognized entity as it is said in the article that currently Bitcoin can be used for illegal activities like funding terrorist organizations but with the regulation, this risk will reduce significantly.

We have books of regulations for fiat currency. Criminals still use it. So do terrorists. You cannot regulate away people with nefarious intentions regardless of what their chosen medium of exchange is. There will always be criminals and they will always use currency no matter the format.

First, there will be many more bitcoiners, since countless business are looking for a "stable legal framework" before they dive into BTC related activities.

In general, regulation is the enemy of freedom. However, some regulation, especially with regard to the exchanges, will likely get rid of some of the "wild wild west" aspects of the current environment and possibly bring wider adoption.

This regulation could be as simple as a "mandatory" proof of reserves concept used by all major exchanges to help eliminate any future MtGakEsque shitstorms and should be enabled/enforced by the community rather than some world government.

That's crap. BTC will never be regulated otherwise it will be another LibertyReserve currency aka victim of Usa.
It was created to evade any possible regulation so it is so popular...

Criminals can get anything without any verification but if the currency is regulated, it will atleast not be illegal to use for users who are earning it and not using it for illegal activities. Currently in some countries, transaction in bitcoins is considered illegal.

And yet those countries still have crime and terrorism issues. Weird.....

Governments tend to assume that everyone has nefarious intentions and proceed to place ham handed regulations on everyone as a result. They then prosecute people that would not be criminals except for their regulations. They then trot out these "criminals" and pat themselves on the back for proving that their regulations work.

Crypto currencies do not need specific regulation. Governments need to enforce consumer protections and current laws to protect crypto users within the current regulatory framework.

Yea, cause microsoft, et.al are totally going to stay on board with that.

Regulation? Drugs are highly regulated. In most places, they're illegal, and yet they're everywhere, available to all. If governments have failed  with drugs, I can't imagine how they could control BTC with whatever regulation.

The IRS has already issued guidance on how to report BTC buys/sales as taxable income... Any more regulation that adds to the transaction fee renders bitcoin more and more useless. The U.S. is already getting their cut every time you report gains from BTC, lets hope it ends there.

New York is already well on the way to making sure it won't, though.

Yes i am with you i can't see how they can possibly regulate bitcoin, only be able to regulate the already centralized parts of bitcoin and that will be good that is all that needs regulating is the exchanges. Last i heard bitcoin was banned in china by their govt yet they are probably the biggest user base goes to show how well they can control bitcoin :) No doubt in my mind they will fail trying

Sure. In the fiat world we never ever seen any scams... bankers, brokers and politicians are all honest blokes. Do you guys really this naive?

Exchanges and most businesses related to bitcoin should be regulated in my opinion if we want Bitcoin to succed and Bitcoin it self cant be regulated as long as it is decentralised.

This is right and that is all we need to be regulated is the greedy's who run some of the exchanges as it was and has been a free for all steal what you can and get out the door. (After blaming a hacker of course) lol

It is near to impossible to regulate bitcoin itself,so i doubt that will ever happen, however, the regulation will come sooner or later to trading,exchanging and many
of the services that are linked with bitcoin.

Its not the end of bitcoin, and it never will be, but it sure will be the end of the bitcoins wild west adventure where people get ripped off at ever corner.
I think regulations will enforce audits of large exchanges, force them to report buyers and sellers, no more hiding behind the nicknames, and that will be the strongest hit to popularity,
unless larger players see their chance in entering the game once "all rules are known".
Bitcoin mixing services will be the first ones to be outright forbidden and closed down, since they are the ones who will provide most anonymity to abusers of crypto-currency.

cheers

correct. what is VERY strange is that many are very happy that someone exchanges are regulated :)

they are either blinds,stupid or kids.

Regulated = reporting to gov, taxes and so on. this is contrary to what BTC goal. :)

I guess you are missing something here. Exchanges doesn't need regulations! They need better protection! Operators of exchange markets should be more aware of dangers and keep people's coins stored in SECURE way. That is the only thing that I would change, really, because if you try to regulate exchanges it will be first step to regulate all services linked to bitcoin.

Technically it is not possible to regulate, and in fact banks are dodging government regulations regularly using different tricks. So I don't think bitcoin business will be any different, they will always find a way to get around regulation, because the governments are technically incompetent to regulate either banks or bitcoin

Bitcoin cant be regulated. Any attempt to control it would render it invaluable.

Regulation is essentially a necessary evil for mainstream adoption/acceptance whether people like it or not. What is problematic is the level of regulation it receives. Minimal is fine and perfectly acceptable but if they start making complex regulations around it then it will become troublesome to use and work out your taxes on it.


They won't regulate bitcoin directly but just people using it. They'll tax the products purchased with it in the same way fiat is taxed on regular goods and services etc. People evading taxes and laws will be punished in the usual way.


How do you work that out? Please expand and clarify your statement.

Have to agree with this they can barley regulate anything as it stands, banks drugs, stocks, tax the list is endless whatever they try lik eyou say there is always a way around it people always find a way around the governments attempts to take full control which is a good thing would hate to see something as good as bitcoin become tarnished with their potential regs.

The U.S. government already regulates Bitcoin fairly well. If you want to trade them back and forth like gaming tokens they don't care. If you want to trade them for product you'd better pay your taxes. If you want to trade them for cash you better have a license. They are assimilating Bitcoin into their system very effectively. When they bust someone for a crime and confiscate their Bitcoins do they wipe the hard drives and auction off the computers? No, they have a separate auction for the Bitcoins. That says not only do they see the value of Bitcoin but feel confident they can regulate your freedom to use it as you see fit.

That's not the end of Bitcoin but it is the end of Bitcoin's radical value to facilitate societal change. It is quickly becoming nothing more than a private ACH/EFT system with lower fees (I would expect lower fees at this point because it's not processing as many transactions as ACH). Instead of the ACH/EFT system happening seamlessly behind the scenes when you use a debit card you must first purchase ACH tokens (btc) for the value of the money you want to send. Eventually that system will be seamless too. You will no longer need to go to coinbase and buy btc to send and the store will take those btc and exchange them. Companies like MasterCard or Visa will do that exchange for you. You will spend in Bitcoin using your special card and the company you purchased from will take those btc and have a merchant service automatically deposit fiat into their account. Over time items will be listed in fiat and the store will accept fiat and you will never know btc was the clearing house used for the value transfer. That's a lot like what happens today isn't it?

Why are people too negative about regulation?
Let is give these pro-regulators a chance? Hm?
Maybe they have something good for us.

I hope you are joking, why are most negative about it just take a look at the economy and control they have over us because of regulation, read up fractional reserve read up the regulations they have controlled us with then come back.

Lets not give them a chance our fathers fathers gave them a chance and that is why we are at where we are at.

I repeat nothing good can come from this, research then come back.  

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Please feel free to take part in a survey to help me with a project.

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Thanks.

In the fiat world, you've never heard of the NYSE, AMEX, NASDAQ, CME, CBOT, etc run off with their customers money.

I know you guys all want your cake and eat it too, but the mainstream won't buy into Bitcoin without consumer protection and insurance like they're used to.  Not saying alot of these banks are perfect or aren't corrupt forces, but when's the last time you've heard of a major exchange like say the NASDAQ run off with like a half a billion dollars without recourse?

That's like saying, hey maybe being raped isn't so bad. Let's take one up the ass and see how it feels first.

They can regulate all they want, they cannot come into your house and tell you what to do with your Bitcoins. As long as you don't convert to fiat reguations don't even matter.

no, because some people will simply flock to UNREGULATED exchanges .. which will always exist

Are you really that sure that authorities will not barge in to your house if you use unregulated coins? Think again.

In America? Probably yes as US government tends to be overactive to to the point is not funny anymore. In EU, I doubt it. But I already can tell that politicians want our money more and more. So sooner or later bitcoin will taxed along the way. And they probably do this in indirect way. That mean every service related to any form of cryptocurrency will be paying tax - just for using bitcoins.

If the regulation was brought in to protect the consumer, it would be a good thing.

If they bring in regulation or apply other regulation as the USA is already doing with AML / KYC it might harm the growth and innovation of the technology.

We also have huge companies with leverage with politicians, who will do anything in their power to stop Crypto currencies from disrupting their power and income monopoly.
We all know who is making these regulations and we all know that they are “puppets on a string” for these huge companies.

Honestly, how would they know if you are using Bitcoin and not your neighbour? If they ever strongly restrict Bitcoin, encryption methods can be used to encrypt transactions and authorities would not be able to find you.

I approve of regulation if it prevents people from having their coins nicked by the scum/ idiots that infest much of the current BTC space.

If governments attempt to enforce things like seizable addresses then I'll be going black or drifting away. I think many of them are bright enough to realise that working with it helps everyone. If they attempt to impose their will then it's going underground. It'll be a fraction of what it could be, but it'll still be out there somewhere.

I agree with what you point out.

I read also this http://www.onestopbrokers.com/2015/03/17/isle-man-preparing-pass-digital-currency-regulatory-framework/ (http://www.onestopbrokers.com/2015/03/17/isle-man-preparing-pass-digital-currency-regulatory-framework/) that I think is related.

That is just not possible. You'd have to change Bitcoin at it's core.

Not the core, but widely utilised layers on top perhaps. I assume there'll be numerous bitcoin banks at some point.

Coinbase is already tracking coins run through them to gambling sites and shutting users down. The services that can be controlled more easily will be voluntary but very tempting for the average user.

If you are not the solely owner of your private key, you have no Bitcoin.
Nobody can seize my paper wallets.

A regulated, fully traceable currency, sounds like a tax mans wet dream

The problem is that they will say it is all about the consumer but as with everything else government does it is about control and getting their share of the pie.

Visa and Mastercard definitely come to mind as a huge company that will lobby like crazy against bitcoin. I am not sure how much the government could actually do for them at this point, but they will most certainly try.

I think that we had this discussion many times already here. Regulation is necessary for the future of bitcoin. We're currently lacking it.
I'm pretty sure that Andreas talked about this multiple times, you should look it up on the internet.

In any case, Bitcoin stays alive, legal or illegal.

Alive when illegal yes, but thriving, no, bitcoin value would be a fraction of what it is now, since alot of people get deterred when it's illigal, eventhough the current financial system creates more crime  ::)

It's not fully traceable though and you can only track it so far if the person uses mixers or other such methods to try obfuscate their coins true destination.


Exactly. People seem to have a knee jerk reaction to the word 'regulation' but it is a natural process and can even be good in some cases. For instance, I would rather drugs be legal and regulated so the consumers get a safe product and the government can get taxes (but only if those taxes are spent on things in the public good like schools, hospitals, roads etc.

i think regulation could be something good for bitcoin when it has to go mainstream to be working, or the fees won't just be enought to substain a decentralized mining..

maybe going mainstream is also the end for bitcoin, dunno.

Why would going mainstream be the end of bitcoin? Doesn't make sense. If anything going mainstream would be the beginning of it becoming a useful currency.

There will always be services like localbitcoins with people exchanging BTC for cash at bars, and there are more and more digital goods, so even if part of the BTC economy can be regulated, there will always be large unregulated activities.

Besides, even with regulation, BTC is far from doomed. Many people are honest and willing to pay their fair share of tax.

If it gets too regulated I think most of the users will move over to something else.
Not sure if it would die, but it would loose a lot of it's value

Need a happy medium, so a little bit of both.  Regulation for the major Bitcoin exchanges, but not for the developers, merchants, and end users with Bitcoin.

Just a little give and take when it comes to regulation, like pretty much what's happening now in New York with the Bitlicense.  Can't always operate in the dark or gray area, but at the same time, we can't have regulation stifle innovation, growth, and maturation.

I think regulation is a very good thing for Bitcoin and is much needed for it to gain more momentum and traction. People are unwilling to invest in something that may be illegal or is too shady. We need regulation!!!

If the regulation is inefficient, people will break the law.

This has happened with alcohol in the past, marijuana in the past, it might happen with Bitcoin, too.

Yes, we may need some basic regulation but not to much regulation really.
Until now, The biggest advantage of bTC was decentralization and no so much regulation.
If we want to further increase the popularity of bitcoin I do not think we should change it a lot.
In general, people don't like rules much :)

An important thing to keep in mind is that bitcoin has never been beyond regulation. Capitol gains is, and has always been, required when you trade something for a value that has appreciated. It does not matter if it's beanie babies or stocks or real estate. There is no tax free money. Of course it may be hard to impossible for the IRS to determine your bitcoin tax liability, but is it worth it to avoid taxes? If you are caught you will owe taxes, penalties, and maybe have some jail time to do. It would be a sad story if you got rich then lost it because you wanted a little more.

There is a legitimate argument to be had that the risk of being a conscientious objector and refusing to fund murder, torture, corruption, and our own repression is a noble activity that is worth pursuing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism

Luckily and unluckily for me I don't have many bitcoins as I lost, spent and tipped out most of my savings and I am sure many others will have the same fate befall upon them due to the difficult early years while we develop more secure methods of backing up ones savings.

I can respect someone objecting to taxes, I don't like how the money gets wasted either. But make no mistake, you are sacrificing yourself for your cause. The court is highly unlikely to grant you the only exception ever made. You will have your clear conscience at the cost of your money and your freedom. For some it may be a better result than involving themselves in something they morally object too. 

My biggest objection is not concerning corruption and waste but deliberate wholesale murder, torture and oppression that is being funded with a large chunk of those taxes.
 
We are all complicit in these crimes to one degree of another.
https://i.imgur.com/NWF9gSw.png

I respect that you are warning others about the potential risks but on the flipside I don't understand how people can repress or ignore these realities and live with themselves or have a shred of self respect.

Bitcoin was never intended to simply be a cheaper paypal alternative but a useful tool to fight against these moral atrocities.

Make no mistake that this :

https://i.imgur.com/HcVskHN.jpg

Is feeding intelligence to drop bombs on innocent civilians without due process :

https://i.imgur.com/zNCh4mS.jpg

I am not suggesting that we shouldn't defend ourselves or take action against psychopathic mass murderers either, but dropping bombs on villages should never be justifiable. The US is reaching close to half a million deaths in Iraq alone due to the invasion, most of which are innocent civilians. The long term environmental damage and increased cancer rates due to the coalitions actions (depleted uranium) will add to those statistics significantly for years to come as well. These actions are reprehensible and we should be doing everything we can to avoid funding and supporting this immorality.

Yes but those people are godless heathen commie foreigners. No one in their little protected bubble of America gives a shit about them.

Unfortunately, that is how most humans think. Psychologically, we are programmed to empathize with a starving homeless person in our hometown but if we are funding the wholesale slaughter and torture of millions in a far away land we find all sorts of lies to ignore , repress, or rationalize such actions.

Nothing personal against RodeoX but it is depressing with the extent that people will rationalize and perform mental gymnastics to excuse this behavior or give a little bit of security to oneself. (Murder and torture was neutralized to simple government waste)

I am with you more than you know. I was in the anti-war protests before the Afghan invasion. The war had 80%+ support in America and only about 200 people showed up to protest. When I would say that this might take 20 years people would laugh and say "more like 6 months." That was 14 years ago and we are now further behind than ever.

However the real cost is yet to be counted. In the mid-east your friends and enemies are for life. Because most casualties of war are civilians we have made a lot of enemies. Even when the enemy is the one hurting people many will blame us because we came from halfway around the world to get into their business. We might think it's acceptable to kill a civilian to get to 10 bad dudes, but what if it was your brother? You might just decide that the Americans must pay and join the enemy. What have we gained then?
I would like to see us cut our military in half and start extricating ourselves from being the world police. We aren't any good at it anymore and it is harder than ever to find someone to even side with.
As for taxes... It has been calculated that if 5% of Americans choose to not file it would be impossible for the IRS to process them before the next tax season. What if as a protest we all file 1 month late? Our only real power anymore is that congress and the senate need our money to enrich themselves. It's the only pain they seem to respond to.

The problem is convincing that 5% that the government won't come banging down their doors and drag them off to jail. The monetary penalties on filing late are another hurdle. I have been in the IRS cross hairs before. I was able to prove I did not owe what they said I did but it is a genuinely scary experience. The federal government had become a monster and people are genuinely afraid of it.

Great, I figured this might be the case but part of convincing 5 % of Americans is to not assist them in spreading the fear states love promoting. What you said was correct and we shouldn't play down the risks or threat of the state, but we should also raise our standards as well where we risk the potential of jailtime and/or fines in the service of limiting the amount of murder, torture, kidnapping, and oppression states are involved with.

I understand that fear is a greater motivator than altruisim, what bitcoin shifts is the incentive structure where you no longer have to be a millionaire to lower your tax exposure with loopholes, offshore accounts, trusts, ect and now everyone has the ability to lower their risks and have a fighting chance of not participating in these human atrocities.


I am not telling people what to do or giving out legal advice and the risks are indeed there but often times exaggerated.
If you live in the US it is good advice to file your taxes correctly, but there is no legal requirement that forces you to claim every deduction either. If you have been a victim of a failed bitcoin exchange where your savings were lost or you made the mistake that many of us have made by forgetting to backup your wallet and your computer crashes than you are not required to claim these deductions and there are reasons why you may choose to avoid doing so as well. Keep your books clean and sanitized and detailed records and an audit can be scary but you will likely make it through as long as you are not lying or made any mistakes on your filings.

If Bitcoins are to get regulated, people will fear to gamble, stop using them for wrong deeds (such as terrorists), transactions may become reversible (in least cases possible, as if one person will be allowed to hold just one address/IP or /PC), it would be easier for Centrals to track everyone's transactions as they might give the orders to either make public notes that for what purpose the funds are being sent, etc.

Regulation will happen with or without our involvement and will do little to curve corruption and theft but simply changes who is involved in the theft. What we should focus on is developing more technological solutions to "regulate" and secure bitcoin which doesn't involve trusting a central party which history has shown leads to failure time and time again.

I wish this scenario never happened because it sound like Big Brother's ultimate dream. Organizations and government agencies spying on everyone.
You could say it is ok because I am not doing nothing wrong with my coins. But that is not the point here. After all control over people is not the greatest form of trust you know.

Regulation just means some people will flock to unregulated networks (like my own ..) .. So it is hardly the 'end of bitcoin'

Bitcoin will be regulated - more or less. But it will have almost no effect.

1. The regulation will come late, way after bitcoin will become mainstream.
2. The regulation will be "soft" and maybe only in some countries - see http. (for example child porn is not allowed, which is good. In some countries some sites are blocked, which is bad. But overall most ppl don't feel like http is regulated)
3. There will always be "alternative ways", so the regulation will not worth much for the ones that know a little tech.

I don't really understand the function of bitcoin mixers (yes even if I have a sig campaing of a bitcoin mixer running). My question is: how do you know the bitcoins you get are clean and not stolen or criminal related? can't this be a problem for you?

You won't know. You might get the cleanest coins in history or something freshly stolen. The point is that no one else will be able to tell either.

The problem with Bitcoin regulations is the fact that no one can regulate bitcoin itself because of the decentralized nature of it. But when they can't regulate bitcoin, government will be trying to regulate bitcoin related services like payment processors and exchanges.

I think if someone could take the regulation to bitcoin then it must be dead (because one of the reasons that people invest in bitcoin because it is decentralized). Otherwise bitcoin is going to the moon!

Read some of the replies, 80% cons 20% pros.

The OP has presented a malformed question and a false dichotomy. Bitcoin was regulated by the protocol and incentive structure itself when it was invented and now is regulated by many governments to one degree or another.

There is no pro - or con because there is a spectrum of how one defines regulation and to what degree people want bitcoin regulated. Bitcoin will persist with or without government regulation because it is a very popular open source project.

Only if they forbid internet. It is difficult To guard All transactions with bitcoin.

Even if they forbid the entire internet it wouldn't matter, in the future we will have decentralized internet with decentralized satellites, its gonna be fun.

No it is not the end of bitcoin when it gets regulated and it will be regulated very soon ,this may the UK government are looking into it they want to learn more and have spent 12 million to research it before they decide on how to do it to apparently make it a safer place for both investors and merchants. Chances are when they have there foot in the door they will try to control as much as they can..

If they start to tax everything with Bitcoin, it will be the end for mass adoption, only for people interested in anonymously doing business or lefties ;)

Regulations are real, check this:

U.K. TREASURY TO REGULATE DIGITAL CURRENCY & BITCOIN,

HM Treasury, the U.K. government’s economic and finance ministry, intends to apply anti-money laundering regulation to digital currency exchanges in the U.K. as part of a plan to promote the legitimate use of digital currency. The goal, according to a newly-released 28-page document, is to support innovation and prevent criminal use. - cryptocoinsnews.com https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/u-k-treasury-regulate-digital-currency-bitcoin/ (https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/u-k-treasury-regulate-digital-currency-bitcoin/)

Unless they have solid evidence connecting you to any crime directly, they won't bother with you. Also, they would be going through a known mixer address so people would know it would be fruitless to trace any further.

Most people do pay taxes, so that won't be a concern for Bitcoin. Tax avoidance/evasion is not the only reason why people flock to Bitcoin. This is like saying fiat cash is used only by tax evaders / money launderers.

They are looking to control and regulate Bitcoin when the Bitcoin is made to not be controlled and regulated.In my opinion the only really thing they can do is to forbidden internet access as other member notice above but where? to whole world? so i found an end as impossible, a disaster maybe...  8)

Kind Regards,
BTC-Bank.

Yes they will try and do what they can to control i mean regulate but that is not going to get them anywhere as you have stated above they will not be able to. What they will be able to regulate i mean control would be exchanges and as we speak the UK government are planning to do exactly that which will not be good by any means.

More than likely we can expect the exchanges to get regulated and then massive fee's will be a result because the governments obviously want their bit as well as they always do.

It will not be the end but i could be fairly annoying jumping threw hoops for these people.

Except if we all recognize it for what it is build for?Which is money we don't need to exchange it we need to use it between us sure they can control mean regulate companies but not us and not all the world.. the idea of Bitcoin is not an investment opportunity which we just convert it to pounds, dollars,euros or else but is to use it as the form of payment and money this is the future and its future is only in our hands my friend.  :)

Kind Regards,
BTC-Bank.

Most of us do recognize but as we speak the only real way to get bitcoin to start is threw an exchange unfortunately, but we will soon have decentralized exchanges then they can only regulate what is already centralized which will end up becoming obsolete.

Bithalo is the first steps towards true bitcoin freedom away from the control and regulations and scams. It is p2p and uses smartcontracts when the time is right we do have places to go like this away from the regulations but at the moment people are comfortable with what we have. 

There are great minds working to keep this what it should be thankfully :)

Yes i agree with you on that.As you said people found it only via exchanges and people like it as it is but in my personal opinion this is the bad path of the road because today everyone see it only as an opportunity people, exchanges, goverments i cant except my self me too i am in this path i do buy, investing, mining, lending and keeping or exchanging it and that is the mainly problem that we keep it and as we keep it and use those methods of investments is clear that govermants want to bit a part of the erninngs and this is the only reason wich dont see it for now as a problem for them..because when we really society it and be in our lifes then we will have the absolute control of it wich is uncontroled.Yes there are great mind working for it  but personally i am thankfull for them who are doing this without any profit.Mainly we agree so i hope that you wont misunderstood me.Be well my friend and hope for a better Bitocoin world.  :)

Kind Regards,
BTC-Bank.

Regulation is far ahead of us. If it will come, let us just give it a chance and observe what it does before we even argue about it.

I don't believe they will be able to fully regulate bitcoin. They may pass laws to make it's undocumented use illegal in certain countries etc. but since no single power controls the whole world it will be difficult to stop bitcoin use.

is the goal really to support innovation? so much so that they list it before listing "prevent[ing] criminal use"? sounds a lot sleazier than if they just said what it is. when a mugger says to give him your wallet, at least he is being upfront about it.

Unregulated by any organization or government is one of the main features of Bitcoin. If under regulated,who will set the rules,or which organization would be trusted?

Spot on.
Bitcoin was made purely to be the first decentralized currency on the web. If it becomes regulated, we can all just kiss it goodbye. I'll be moving over to LTC, Doge, or heck even DarkCoin. Something where the legend will continue. I won't be participating in bitcoin if it becomes regulated. Not a chance.

if you don't want to get regulated you can't be any geek off the street. you gotta be handy w/ the steel if you know what i mean, earn your keep

Regulate by Warren/G, nice one, gonna listin it tonight, longtime ago that I heard that song.

Don't forget anonymity. I'm sure there's alot of people who would love to get rid of this feature.

+1

Anonymity s the worst thing which has ever happened to BTC. It only attracts scammers and ponzi operators.

the public loves it when authority figures give them the "ok".  btc is probably gonna sky rocket.

ESMA is seeking information on new developments in virtual currency investment

http://www.onestopbrokers.com/2015/04/22/esma-seeking-information-new-developments-virtual-currency-investment/

REGULATORS!  MOUNT UP!!

http://media.giphy.com/media/ATu5KxZMkxP9e/giphy.gif

Nothing like 90s Hip Hop.  Real creativity and music, no BS like today's.

That said Bitcoin itself is in "1990's" so to speak, if were to correlate Bitcoin to the Internet, growth wise.

We all keep saying that they will/can/be regulating bitcoin. But I did not really see any comment how mining can be regulated. And it is the easiest way to influence bitcoin.
Governments can start to to endorse ASIC manufacturers a with special kind of permits and that will rise equipment cost for mining bitcoin.  

You could just go and ban the use of Bitcoin or make it punishable by law. Boom - the majority of citizens will never touch Bitcoin again. It's far easier for a country to ban something than you may think, you don't need to circumvent SHA256 or something, you just need an executive force :)

The services for bitcoin should be regulated, but not the coin itself.

One of the basic needs of Bitcoin creation was to beat the regulation.
So, it's better for the bitcoin to be dead rather than regulated.

It does make it easier for scammers but it is also a central feature that needs to be maintained. It's a new paradigm. No banks, no oversight. That puts security on you and me brother. Sure it's more work, but freedom often is.

I don't think Bitcoin will be regulated. If it is regulated, it will lose his own beauty.

This is just nonsense. It is already regulated and it will become even more regulated.
Bitcoin can't be traded on legit exchanges without regulation. Sure, you can always use localbitcoins to trade but that can't be compared to exchanges.
In order for Bitcoin to be legal and/or mainstream it has to be regulated.

Well,
Is regulation really needed?

I think that should be the question.
This kind of reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMoPBDz5ycA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMoPBDz5ycA)

Very educational, and I think it kind of goes hand to hand with this situation.

Give it some time.
Decentralized exchanges will emerge, and they wont be able to regulate those.
Patience is a virtue  ;)

apparently there is one already, i don't know if this is legit or what, but they say that it is decentralized...

https://bitshares.org/

I don’t believe Bitcoin can be regulated by any goverment… anyway Bitcoin runs well without any governmental regulation.

Hmm, it seems to have quite some information on the site, and apparently poloniex is one of their partners: https://bitshares.org/partners (https://bitshares.org/partners)
The project is also on github (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares)) so I am guessing anyone can fork it and create their own?

In order to achieve mainstream adoption, regulation and identification of wallet addresses is inevitable. But the paradox is that government regulation started the need of something like bitcoin, free of manipulation, controlled by no-one, yet overyone :)

Else it will remain within the circles in which it is now, maybe grow a little more, but never full adoption. The reason is that "the killer app" in order to achieve mainstream adoption means people want to use it like a bank, names and numbers.

My sad doom scenario is that because of the difficulties crypto faces and the enormous advantages of early adopters with regards to new users, the banks will have a own blockchain variant, before bitcoin or any other crypto could achieve full adoption.

I hope I'm wrong :)

I am very sympathetic to Furio's arguments.  I would say that regulation is the end of the beginning for bitcoin.  The early adopters have served the effort very well and gotten it in a position to go mainstream, if it does though, it will be regulated.  Double edged sword.

To begin I think bitcoin needs an international statut, and not a different statut depending of the countries.
In my opinion, regulation does not mean the end for Bitcoin. I mean I think some huge compagnies and investors are waiting for more clarity in the existing regulation (depending on countries) , just to be sure that what they want to do is legal. But with his popularity growing day after day, I don't doubt that the gouvernements will try to put a strict regulation especially if Bitcoin is seen like a threat for the actual economic system. If it's the case I don't know how Bitcoin will face.

LOL how many times people have declared Bitcoin is dead?... keep it coming...LOL

i think if something is regulated, it can be corrupted.
i prefer bitcoin should not be regulated by anyone

Thats right it will like a government of any country. We will pay a taxes and also many of users will not agree to that regulation. YES its end of the bitcoin.

The trading should be regulated to protect traders.

exchange should only be hit by the regulation not bitcoin itself, basically they are regulating the fiat that come from bitcoin

some states want to regulate bitcoin itself, which is no sense, they don't even know what bitcoin can be classified to


basically after every dump they say so

That is true and at the moment they do not want to recognize it as a currency.
If they did then that would cause them (or more like the banks that control the governments) problems.

if bitcoin does get regulated, then you know bitcoin is being taken seriously by governments. it might attract a lot new investors who were waiting for such news.

Yeah thats right they just only create an idea about bitcoin that is not really true. And they want to have a regulation like in fiat money but their can't do that because you can't handle it and theres so many possible things that can happened in your bitcoin like scammed or hacked.

I think bitcoin will be regulated to the fringes but there's no way it will ever completely die. There's room in the word for hundreds or thousands of digital currencies to survive and thrive. But we'd be delusional to think any government would allow them to compete with its own national currency.

Welcome to bitcoin, the bittorrent of digital payments. It works, it's brilliant, it's amazing, but it ain't going to fly.

Unfotunately I dont see any other way for BTC to reach legit mainstream status without full regulation. If it helps the price because everyone uses it then let it be. But guess what, there will always be ways around that regulation if you want that.

But if government will allowed to have a regulations or any law in bitcoin, for sure theres a big trouble and many users will disagree or will affect of that regulations.