Is Regulation The End For Bitcoin?

[Daniel91]

Is Regulation The End For Bitcoin?

http://bitforum.info/t/is-regulation-the-end-for-bitcoin/396

Maybe bitcoiners doesnt say this out loud but majority of us question ourselves, if Bitcoin will be regulated. Would it be the end?

I mean, if there is a central entity that regulates Bitcoin, do you think that they're regulation would be 'limited' or will they violate a bitcoiners privacy for the sake of 'regulation'?

In the article, it reads the advantages of regulation.

Can you give out negative effects if Bitcoin is regulated?

I think regulation is a very good thing for Bitcoin and is much needed for it to gain more momentum and traction. People are unwilling to invest in something that may be illegal or is too shady. We need regulation!!!

Yes, we may need some basic regulation but not to much regulation really.
Until now, The biggest advantage of bTC was decentralization and no so much regulation.
If we want to further increase the popularity of bitcoin I do not think we should change it a lot.
In general, people don't like rules much

[RodeoX]

An important thing to keep in mind is that bitcoin has never been beyond regulation. Capitol gains is, and has always been, required when you trade something for a value that has appreciated. It does not matter if it's beanie babies or stocks or real estate. There is no tax free money. Of course it may be hard to impossible for the IRS to determine your bitcoin tax liability, but is it worth it to avoid taxes? If you are caught you will owe taxes, penalties, and maybe have some jail time to do. It would be a sad story if you got rich then lost it because you wanted a little more.

[inBitweTrust]

Of course it may be hard to impossible for the IRS to determine your bitcoin tax liability, but is it worth it to avoid taxes? If you are caught you will owe taxes, penalties, and maybe have some jail time to do. It would be a sad story if you got rich then lost it because you wanted a little more.

There is a legitimate argument to be had that the risk of being a conscientious objector and refusing to fund murder, torture, corruption, and our own repression is a noble activity that is worth pursuing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism

Luckily and unluckily for me I don't have many bitcoins as I lost, spent and tipped out most of my savings and I am sure many others will have the same fate befall upon them due to the difficult early years while we develop more secure methods of backing up ones savings.

[RodeoX]

Of course it may be hard to impossible for the IRS to determine your bitcoin tax liability, but is it worth it to avoid taxes? If you are caught you will owe taxes, penalties, and maybe have some jail time to do. It would be a sad story if you got rich then lost it because you wanted a little more.

There is a legitimate argument to be had that the risk of being a conscientious objector and refusing to fund murder, torture, corruption, and our own repression is a noble activity that is worth pursuing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism

Luckily and unluckily for me I don't have many bitcoins as I lost, spent and tipped out most of my savings and I am sure many others will have the same fate befall upon them due to the difficult early years while we develop more secure methods of backing up ones savings.

I can respect someone objecting to taxes, I don't like how the money gets wasted either. But make no mistake, you are sacrificing yourself for your cause. The court is highly unlikely to grant you the only exception ever made. You will have your clear conscience at the cost of your money and your freedom. For some it may be a better result than involving themselves in something they morally object too. 

[inBitweTrust]

I can respect someone objecting to taxes, I don't like how the money gets wasted either. But make no mistake, you are sacrificing yourself for your cause. The court is highly unlikely to grant you the only exception ever made. You will have your clear conscience at the cost of your money and your freedom. For some it may be a better result than involving themselves in something they morally object too.  

My biggest objection is not concerning corruption and waste but deliberate wholesale murder, torture and oppression that is being funded with a large chunk of those taxes.
 
We are all complicit in these crimes to one degree of another.


I respect that you are warning others about the potential risks but on the flipside I don't understand how people can repress or ignore these realities and live with themselves or have a shred of self respect.

Bitcoin was never intended to simply be a cheaper paypal alternative but a useful tool to fight against these moral atrocities.

Make no mistake that this :



Is feeding intelligence to drop bombs on innocent civilians without due process :



I am not suggesting that we shouldn't defend ourselves or take action against psychopathic mass murderers either, but dropping bombs on villages should never be justifiable. The US is reaching close to half a million deaths in Iraq alone due to the invasion, most of which are innocent civilians. The long term environmental damage and increased cancer rates due to the coalitions actions (depleted uranium) will add to those statistics significantly for years to come as well. These actions are reprehensible and we should be doing everything we can to avoid funding and supporting this immorality.

[QuestionAuthority]

Yes but those people are godless heathen commie foreigners. No one in their little protected bubble of America gives a shit about them.

[inBitweTrust]

Yes but those people are godless heathen commie foreigners. No one in their little protected bubble of America gives a shit about them.

Unfortunately, that is how most humans think. Psychologically, we are programmed to empathize with a starving homeless person in our hometown but if we are funding the wholesale slaughter and torture of millions in a far away land we find all sorts of lies to ignore , repress, or rationalize such actions.

Nothing personal against RodeoX but it is depressing with the extent that people will rationalize and perform mental gymnastics to excuse this behavior or give a little bit of security to oneself. (Murder and torture was neutralized to simple government waste)

[RodeoX]

Yes but those people are godless heathen commie foreigners. No one in their little protected bubble of America gives a shit about them.

Unfortunately, that is how most humans think. Psychologically, we are programmed to empathize with a starving homeless person in our hometown but if we are funding the wholesale slaughter and torture of millions in a far away land we find all sorts of lies to ignore , repress, or rationalize such actions.

Nothing personal against RodeoX but it is depressing with the extent that people will rationalize and perform mental gymnastics to excuse this behavior or give a little bit of security to oneself. (Murder and torture was neutralized to simple government waste)

I am with you more than you know. I was in the anti-war protests before the Afghan invasion. The war had 80%+ support in America and only about 200 people showed up to protest. When I would say that this might take 20 years people would laugh and say "more like 6 months." That was 14 years ago and we are now further behind than ever.

However the real cost is yet to be counted. In the mid-east your friends and enemies are for life. Because most casualties of war are civilians we have made a lot of enemies. Even when the enemy is the one hurting people many will blame us because we came from halfway around the world to get into their business. We might think it's acceptable to kill a civilian to get to 10 bad dudes, but what if it was your brother? You might just decide that the Americans must pay and join the enemy. What have we gained then?
I would like to see us cut our military in half and start extricating ourselves from being the world police. We aren't any good at it anymore and it is harder than ever to find someone to even side with.
As for taxes... It has been calculated that if 5% of Americans choose to not file it would be impossible for the IRS to process them before the next tax season. What if as a protest we all file 1 month late? Our only real power anymore is that congress and the senate need our money to enrich themselves. It's the only pain they seem to respond to.

[Ron~Popeil]

Yes but those people are godless heathen commie foreigners. No one in their little protected bubble of America gives a shit about them.

Unfortunately, that is how most humans think. Psychologically, we are programmed to empathize with a starving homeless person in our hometown but if we are funding the wholesale slaughter and torture of millions in a far away land we find all sorts of lies to ignore , repress, or rationalize such actions.

Nothing personal against RodeoX but it is depressing with the extent that people will rationalize and perform mental gymnastics to excuse this behavior or give a little bit of security to oneself. (Murder and torture was neutralized to simple government waste)

I am with you more than you know. I was in the anti-war protests before the Afghan invasion. The war had 80%+ support in America and only about 200 people showed up to protest. When I would say that this might take 20 years people would laugh and say "more like 6 months." That was 14 years ago and we are now further behind than ever.

However the real cost is yet to be counted. In the mid-east your friends and enemies are for life. Because most casualties of war are civilians we have made a lot of enemies. Even when the enemy is the one hurting people many will blame us because we came from halfway around the world to get into their business. We might think it's acceptable to kill a civilian to get to 10 bad dudes, but what if it was your brother? You might just decide that the Americans must pay and join the enemy. What have we gained then?
I would like to see us cut our military in half and start extricating ourselves from being the world police. We aren't any good at it anymore and it is harder than ever to find someone to even side with.
As for taxes... It has been calculated that if 5% of Americans choose to not file it would be impossible for the IRS to process them before the next tax season. What if as a protest we all file 1 month late? Our only real power anymore is that congress and the senate need our money to enrich themselves. It's the only pain they seem to respond to.

The problem is convincing that 5% that the government won't come banging down their doors and drag them off to jail. The monetary penalties on filing late are another hurdle. I have been in the IRS cross hairs before. I was able to prove I did not owe what they said I did but it is a genuinely scary experience. The federal government had become a monster and people are genuinely afraid of it.

[inBitweTrust]

I am with you more than you know. I was in the anti-war protests before the Afghan invasion. The war had 80%+ support in America and only about 200 people showed up to protest. When I would say that this might take 20 years people would laugh and say "more like 6 months." That was 14 years ago and we are now further behind than ever.

However the real cost is yet to be counted. In the mid-east your friends and enemies are for life. Because most casualties of war are civilians we have made a lot of enemies. Even when the enemy is the one hurting people many will blame us because we came from halfway around the world to get into their business. We might think it's acceptable to kill a civilian to get to 10 bad dudes, but what if it was your brother? You might just decide that the Americans must pay and join the enemy. What have we gained then?
I would like to see us cut our military in half and start extricating ourselves from being the world police. We aren't any good at it anymore and it is harder than ever to find someone to even side with.
As for taxes... It has been calculated that if 5% of Americans choose to not file it would be impossible for the IRS to process them before the next tax season. What if as a protest we all file 1 month late? Our only real power anymore is that congress and the senate need our money to enrich themselves. It's the only pain they seem to respond to.

Great, I figured this might be the case but part of convincing 5 % of Americans is to not assist them in spreading the fear states love promoting. What you said was correct and we shouldn't play down the risks or threat of the state, but we should also raise our standards as well where we risk the potential of jailtime and/or fines in the service of limiting the amount of murder, torture, kidnapping, and oppression states are involved with.

I understand that fear is a greater motivator than altruisim, what bitcoin shifts is the incentive structure where you no longer have to be a millionaire to lower your tax exposure with loopholes, offshore accounts, trusts, ect and now everyone has the ability to lower their risks and have a fighting chance of not participating in these human atrocities.

The federal government had become a monster and people are genuinely afraid of it.

I am not telling people what to do or giving out legal advice and the risks are indeed there but often times exaggerated.
If you live in the US it is good advice to file your taxes correctly, but there is no legal requirement that forces you to claim every deduction either. If you have been a victim of a failed bitcoin exchange where your savings were lost or you made the mistake that many of us have made by forgetting to backup your wallet and your computer crashes than you are not required to claim these deductions and there are reasons why you may choose to avoid doing so as well. Keep your books clean and sanitized and detailed records and an audit can be scary but you will likely make it through as long as you are not lying or made any mistakes on your filings.

[DeboraMeeks]

If Bitcoins are to get regulated, people will fear to gamble, stop using them for wrong deeds (such as terrorists), transactions may become reversible (in least cases possible, as if one person will be allowed to hold just one address/IP or /PC), it would be easier for Centrals to track everyone's transactions as they might give the orders to either make public notes that for what purpose the funds are being sent, etc.

[inBitweTrust]

If Bitcoins are to get regulated, people will fear to gamble, stop using them for wrong deeds (such as terrorists), transactions may become reversible (in least cases possible, as if one person will be allowed to hold just one address/IP or /PC), it would be easier for Centrals to track everyone's transactions as they might give the orders to either make public notes that for what purpose the funds are being sent, etc.

Regulation will happen with or without our involvement and will do little to curve corruption and theft but simply changes who is involved in the theft. What we should focus on is developing more technological solutions to "regulate" and secure bitcoin which doesn't involve trusting a central party which history has shown leads to failure time and time again.

[Hazir]

If Bitcoins are to get regulated, people will fear to gamble, stop using them for wrong deeds (such as terrorists), transactions may become reversible (in least cases possible, as if one person will be allowed to hold just one address/IP or /PC), it would be easier for Centrals to track everyone's transactions as they might give the orders to either make public notes that for what purpose the funds are being sent, etc.

I wish this scenario never happened because it sound like Big Brother's ultimate dream. Organizations and government agencies spying on everyone.
You could say it is ok because I am not doing nothing wrong with my coins. But that is not the point here. After all control over people is not the greatest form of trust you know.

[moriartybitcoin]

Regulation just means some people will flock to unregulated networks (like my own ..) .. So it is hardly the 'end of bitcoin'

[NeuroticFish]

Bitcoin will be regulated - more or less. But it will have almost no effect.

1. The regulation will come late, way after bitcoin will become mainstream.
2. The regulation will be "soft" and maybe only in some countries - see http. (for example child porn is not allowed, which is good. In some countries some sites are blocked, which is bad. But overall most ppl don't feel like http is regulated)
3. There will always be "alternative ways", so the regulation will not worth much for the ones that know a little tech.

[cellard]

Regulation just means some people will flock to unregulated networks (like my own ..) .. So it is hardly the 'end of bitcoin'

I don't really understand the function of bitcoin mixers (yes even if I have a sig campaing of a bitcoin mixer running). My question is: how do you know the bitcoins you get are clean and not stolen or criminal related? can't this be a problem for you?

[gentlemand]

Regulation just means some people will flock to unregulated networks (like my own ..) .. So it is hardly the 'end of bitcoin'

I don't really understand the function of bitcoin mixers (yes even if I have a sig campaing of a bitcoin mixer running). My question is: how do you know the bitcoins you get are clean and not stolen or criminal related? can't this be a problem for you?

You won't know. You might get the cleanest coins in history or something freshly stolen. The point is that no one else will be able to tell either.

[Hazir]

Bitcoin will be regulated - more or less. But it will have almost no effect.

1. The regulation will come late, way after bitcoin will become mainstream.
2. The regulation will be "soft" and maybe only in some countries - see http. (for example child porn is not allowed, which is good. In some countries some sites are blocked, which is bad. But overall most ppl don't feel like http is regulated)
3. There will always be "alternative ways", so the regulation will not worth much for the ones that know a little tech.

The problem with Bitcoin regulations is the fact that no one can regulate bitcoin itself because of the decentralized nature of it. But when they can't regulate bitcoin, government will be trying to regulate bitcoin related services like payment processors and exchanges.

[btc.to.moon]

I think if someone could take the regulation to bitcoin then it must be dead (because one of the reasons that people invest in bitcoin because it is decentralized). Otherwise bitcoin is going to the moon!

[SueGiant]

Is Regulation The End For Bitcoin?

http://bitforum.info/t/is-regulation-the-end-for-bitcoin/396

Maybe bitcoiners doesnt say this out loud but majority of us question ourselves, if Bitcoin will be regulated. Would it be the end?

I mean, if there is a central entity that regulates Bitcoin, do you think that they're regulation would be 'limited' or will they violate a bitcoiners privacy for the sake of 'regulation'?

In the article, it reads the advantages of regulation.

Can you give out negative effects if Bitcoin is regulated?

Read some of the replies, 80% cons 20% pros.