Bitcoin Forum

why is bitcoin so popular in Russia?

How popular is it?

this forum 3,652 site in russia

I will be speaking about bitcoin at the eletronic money forum in Moscow this October.

great. how long do you speak for?

October 4-5? I will be in Moscow. I need to register, how much is it anyway?

As I've mentioned before, Bitcoin is a very good match for socialist/communist governments.  There are a lot of people in Russia who long for the good old days of the USSR.  That was a failed model and has really set back leftist politics around the world but that doesn't change how some in Russia felt about it and their status as a superpower.  They want to go back to the old ways of a state controlled, regulated, and monitored economy that strives for universal welfare and Bitcoin is the best modern tool we have to facilitate that.

cool! but watch out, in soviet russia, bitcoin mines you!

About Bitcoin:

state controlled ? No.
regulated ? No.
monitored ? Yes, but each address is like verifying sand on a beach.
universal welfare ? No. You still need to own up, nothing is free except with Bitcoins there is a much more even playing field.

You need the blue pill sir.

You have to think of Bitcoin as a natural resource like gold or other metals.  In its wild, natural state it is not government controlled or regulated but you can easily use it as a store of value within your controlled and monitored system.  

In the case of Bitcoin, you would not alter the technical workings of the Bitcoin network itself, you would simply create whitelisted wallets which would be the only ones allowed to engage in commerce within your country.  That way the monitoring is easy and you can control your economy to a greater degree than at any other time in human history.  It's fairly obvious to me Satoshi is a socialist, I know a lot of folks around here disagree but I've always felt the libertarian attraction to Bitcoin is slightly insane.

In fact, I think it's possible Satoshi set it up this way as a honeypot for libertarian types so they will be knee deep in the Bitcoin economy when the shifts toward socialism start to come. Once they see how natural, effective, and appropriate an evolutionary development that is for an economy they will become socialists themselves.  You are already seeing a lot of folks calling for government intervention in the free market to help recover stolen funds since they are unhappy with the free market solution of partial or no refunds.  

They can use it as they see fit, aside from purchasing anything legally from a legitimate business within the country. 


There is no need to prohibit them in the sense you have to seize a dangerous shipment of marijuana from violent crimianls or smash a whiskey barrel.  All you have to do is use automated systems to watch out for prohibited transactions.  Once you eliminate the white collar element that really facilitates the crimes by laundering the money there won't be any profit left in it for anyone.

Well, Let's ask Dread Pirate Roberts if he has any problems with that, shall we? ;)

I asked him, he told me, "I gave up pirating when it became impossible to use the currency I stole to buy anything and I could not sell any cargo I stole because I did not have access to a white listed wallet."

Pirates operate in areas of anarchy and insufficient government control, an economy like this would be the last place you would find them. 

Yup! That's why there was no Black market whatsoever in Soviet Russia...

Oh, er...

They had no Bitcoin, bringing us back around to square one here.  It also didn't help that they went to far in eradicating consumer input into the system.  Your ideal Socialist Bitcoin state will still have a free market, it will just also have extremely strong social safety nets and measures to make sure some folks don't accumulate too much of the wealth.  A hybrid system promotes the best welfare for all.  Your best model is really post-WWII USA but with Bitcoins to make sure corruption doesn't eventually allow too much of the wealth to go into one place, the extreme taxation of the rich to lapse, and the middle class protections to collapse.  

What differentiates Bitcoin from Dollars that allows government control?

The transaction tracking.  It's vastly easier to launder paper fiat money than it is electronic currency with a full transaction log. 

I see... and if this transaction log shows your government-approved whitelist addresses getting almost no traffic, while the rest of the addresses get plenty, what then?

You audit and arrest people conducting business illegally.  If a business is running without taking in any legal currency or paying taxes it will be fairly obvious when all legitimate business is tracked. 

So... you'll arrest people on - literally - absence of proof? And you expect people to be OK with that?

What are you even talking about?  You suspect a car dealer of operating on the black market.  You look at his transaction log and see he isn't receiving legitimate payments. That is proof.

Maybe he is only moving a small number of cars in this way.  Okay, a drug dealer just got caught in possession of one of his cars and there is no log of the purchase in the transaction log.  Busted. 

Prove that drug dealer didn't buy it second-hand.

You can't. This is what I'm saying. You don't have proof that the car dealer did anything wrong, all you have is proof he didn't (legally) sell anything to that drug dealer.

Yes I can.  Cars have VINs and transferring titles is a government process.  There will be a record of who the car was sold to originally at the dealership or they are in deep shit already.

Right. The drug dealer is going to register the car he bought on the black market under his name. Uh huh. Good luck with that.

It doesn't matter who he registers it under, we are talking about busting the dealership here.  We have the car.  We know it came from them.  We know they transferred the title. There is no legitimate payment for it.  That is all the proof you need unless you think it is reasonable that they might be giving away cars for free.

Prove that there is no legitimate payment for it. The blockchain contains no information about the nature of the transaction.

You overestimate the competency and efficiency of the government  :)

Incredibly fucking easy.  The dealership sold 5 cars that day, we know this because when you sell a car you have to transfer the title.  Are there 5 payments for them? 

Have you ever had contact with a government? That is definitely too hard for them.

There almost certainly would be. Just not necessarily from the people who bought the cars.

I don't think the $20 oil change is going to fool anyone.

The funny thing is that rarity is the type of person who would get quickly fired from a government job for infringing his/her superior's sphere of plausible deniability.

You're not thinking deviously enough. What if I had an account specifically for buying cars? I could sell myself a car, but that car actually gets sold to the drug dealer. The money that the drug dealer gives me gets shuffled and mixed, possibly ending up in that shell account 150 or so transactions later.

5 car-sized transactions, and a non-entity to track down looking for whoever sold that car to the drug dealer. And this is just my 5-minute analysis of the issue. You can be certain that people who actually avoid government intervention for a living will be many times more devious than this.

Then you would have to explain why you bought so many cars and yet don't have them any more and how a criminal ending up in possession of one.


If you are attempting to launder black market coins you are wasting your time because they will never be allowed back into the system regardless of how much you transfer them.  If you are using white market coins you all you are doing is making a public record of your attempt to hide money for a criminal, great plan.


Your 5 minute analysis is deeply flawed.  You are still thinking in terms of an economy where laundering money is actually possible.   I am correct on this matter and you should actually consider it in depth before continuing to post.  

There is zero need to.

The account that bought the car isn't "mine" it's nobody's, a vacant shell account. An address, nothing more.

I have no need to explain what someone else does after they buy my cars.
I would be very interested in seeing how you propose to stop miners from including transactions from "black market" addresses to "white market" ones.

Once bought a car from a mate for $7000 and when it came to register it that figure magically changed to $500 so the transfer tax was only paid on the smaller amount  :D

In Ireland what they have is the Criminal Assets Bureau, where if they start chasing you, require you to prove you got the funds legitimatelythat was used to buy your property (i.e. your house car etc.).

If you can't provide legit means of income that could cover those assets then they take them off you.

I believe it's something along the same lines in the U.S. so it becomes a case of prove that you're good or you lose everything (although its the IRS in the states).

Then it won't be whitelisted in the first place.


You have to explain what happened when there is no record you sold it and a criminal now has it, yes.


We are only dealing with a subset of the Bitcoin economy here and whitelisted coins and wallets.  Mining is entirely meaningless to this scenario.  There is no reason for you to do it.


Yeah, it's not like proposing money laundering and other white collar crime should be illegal is some new crazy idea I came up with.  The only change here is that using Bitcoin as the currency with proper regulation makes enforcing such laws vastly easier.  


...and under our regulated Bitcoin market the true price would be there for the world to see and you would not be able to get away with it.  

...And?

You do realize that the bitcoin protocol makes new addresses at every transaction, right? And change spent from those transactions, in a later transaction, comes from those new addresses, right? If every non-whitelisted address were suspect, everyone would be guilty.

And you can't buy cars with non whitelisted addresses.  You have very little understanding of financial crime and the Bitcoin protocol and it is becoming extremely tiring discussing them with you. 

Read the rest of the response.

So stop mining if you don't like that you aren't rewarded for it.  The government itself can pick up the slack for missing private miners without anyone needing to "control" the process.  This is most likely the endgame Satoshi envisioned for Bitcoin in the first place.  The rewards of mining will be used by the government in case they need to add new whitelisted coins to the economy, for instance to distribute new wealth to the less fortunate.

Please re-read my comment.  The government is not taking control of anything.  You can keep mining if you want, you just don't get rewarded for it with anything you can spend in your local economy.  Mining will still be done outside of that economy as well in other countries with their own Bitcoin economies, this is not about controlling the network.  

I don't see what is at all difficult to understand here.  Only the government can add whitelisted Bitcoins to the economy.  None of your mining proceeds would be whitelisted regardless of their source.

wut

Are you frigging kidding me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0)

Is it that you guys don't understand what a whitelist is?  I'm at a loss for how you are having difficulty keeping up here.  These concepts are not very advanced.

A list or collection of people or entities that are known, trusted or explicitly permitted. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whitelist)

"Whitelisted addresses" does not equate to "only government-mined coins are good"

Sorry, you cannot bend Bitcoin to your socialist dream. If you want something like that, go make SocialistCoin.

Please stop replying until you have managed to keep up with the discussion and understand what I am saying.  There is no effect here on the actual network itself, the government can blacklist any coin they want from any source they want for use as legal tender and you can still send it wherever you want.  It's just that you'll have about as much chance at using them to buy something legally as you would if you made your own blank nickels.  The metal itself is not important, the fact that is has been minted and stamped by the government is.  

+1000

So, your plan is to gradually outsource all industry and employment, as the change from legitimate transactions gets blacklisted by not being attached to the whitelisted addresses anymore, and can therefor no longer be used in legitimate transactions within the country, but is still perfectly acceptable in other areas?

Sounds good.

Bitcoin doesnt use just one address when you end coins.

We should just wait 5 pages and then decide what to title a thread.

How's this one?

Coins can be newly whitelisted by the government at any time.  There is no danger of this becoming an issue.  Once again I have to tell you it is becoming very tiresome trying to instruct you in these very basic concepts.  I think it is very likely I am being trolled right now, and it's a shame folks here would ruin what could be such an interesting conversation by doing that.

OK, so, I make a transaction, and some part of my wallet gets sent to an address I can't see in the client, and is transparently (from my point of view) linked to my main balance. I then have to contact the government, fill out a form, and request that portion of my funds be returned to me?

Why? so the government can decide what transactions are "legitimate" and which are not? What's the point, when I can simply run my entire life on the black market, as many people did in Soviet Russia?

I suppose you're going to have bitcoin police, too, tracking the blockchain, watching for "illegal" transactions? How are you going to differentiate transactions in another country from black market transactions in yours?

You are clearly trolling here.  Unless you are sending funds to a non-whitelisted account you have nothing to worry about, I have already explained that.  Unless you want to live without a home and transportation and any government services...basically entirely off the grid, you aren't going black market only. 


You have again forgotten the main focus here is a white list. There is no need to track random black market transactions.

Are you intoxicated?  I'm not sure how else to explain your inability to learn about this subject.  If you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, please consider stopping before we continue this conversation and if you are having difficulty stopping please seek help.  I can recommend this (http://www.narconon.org/) as a really effective program that helps a lot of people. 

I know I'm being ignored... but honestly any government would be better off creating something other than bitcoin than trying to centralize it. The plan of controlling bitcoin is too complicated, therefore it will fail. I can see attempts at destroying or driving it underground, but not using it. Controlling it would be far more expensive than just creating an alternative and convincing people to use it instead. I don't think the "powers that be" are that stupid.

If I can find someone who will rent me some space for "black" coins, likewise for transportation, I'd probably be living better than most of the people on the whitelist.

Basically, what you propose is much hassle, for little or no gain. Whole new levels of government would be needed to police your economy, and if you succeeded in your plan, people would abandon Bitcoin in a heartbeat, for some other cryptocurrency. Or cash. Or barter. Or they would hide black market transactions in with the whitelisted ones. Pay extra for a package of crackers, get a package of crackers, and a sack of weed. All you see is a transaction from one whitelisted address to another.

Controlling other people against their will is futile. It may work for a little while, but you will lose your grip, or it will be ripped from you.

Nobody is going to sign up to take your black market coins.  Black Markets exist because doing so is profitable.  It lets big time criminals buy houses and cars and invest in legitimate businesses which can also be profitable.  When you take away that profit motive by making the big purchases impossible to hide and laundering your money in legitimate businesses impossible the profit motive for a criminal organization is gone.  This effect trickles all the way down the totem pole.  No big drug producers and distributors means no drug corners and homeless junkies.  That means a lot less mugging and assault and property crime and prostitution and rape.  Wiping out all this crime is a huge benefit for the economy as these people go on to live productive lives within the law.

Any major economic change will take some serious effort to set up, but the rewards of moving to this system are so vast people will agree they are worth the effort. 


You are again failing to understand any of the concepts here at even the most basic of levels.  Listen closely, I need you to understand that CRACKERS DON'T MATTER. First off, illegal narcotics like Marijuana cost significantly more than crackers.  That is not a good way to hide the transaction.  Second, all the transactions to the drug dealer trying to hide transaction in a whitelisted address are tracked.  As soon as such a dealer is caught, and this happens all the time for entirely random reasons like a dog smelling something during a traffic stop, you now have a list of all his customers too.  Drug dealing as a profession is not going to last long in that situation.  It would be as if every drug war arrestee informed on everyone they ever bought and sold to every time.  The distribution networks fall apart in a flash. 

I know Marijuana is a deadly, addictive drug but even Marijuana junkies will be smart enough to give up and get treatment instead under these conditions.

Who's trolling who here?

And tell me, how are you going to differentiate legitimate transactions from padded ones? Remember, blockchain only has amounts and addresses.

again:

If you are trying to troll me into a debate on the dangers of drugs here please don't, I already suspect you are intoxicated and I do not feel this would be a valuable use of our time.  


As has been previously pointed out, crackers don't matter.  Please re-read my previous post and try and slow down and understand it this time.  Or maybe consider taking nap, sobering up, and checking out the thread again tomorrow.  

Says the guy with a rainbow pony as their avatar and who can't correctly spell "you".

Right. I'm the intoxicated one.


So, every transaction that merchant ever made is automatically a drug sale? Again, how are you going to tell the legit transactions from the padded ones?

It does seem to me to be a sign of intoxication to think that a typo is a sign of intoxication.  It is yet another sign of the clouded thinking that has typified your contributions to this conversation.  Lashing out at my typing skills is not going to distract from the subject at hand.  

The family television program "My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic" promotes a healthy, well balanced lifestyle in which recreational drugs play no role.  I think you will find that with good support from your friends this lifestyle is also possible for you.  Please look into the organization I posted about earlier.  


All of the $60 cracker sales, sure.

Where in the blockchain is the info about what the transaction is for? All you see is addresses and amounts. And if you think large transactions can be filtered, I'd point out that small amounts of drugs can be quite cheap.

I'd direct you to Silk Road to verify for yourself how inexpensive small amounts are, but I suspect you already know better than I the current prices on SR.

The information doesn't need to be in the blockchain.  You would have more than enough evidence for probable cause to simply request a urine test from the customers of a store that was, openly and frequently (because you insist on small amounts it happens all the time) selling drugs.  

I know your mind is currently too addled to understand this, but people have already tried schemes like this before.  It tends to end in a fast bust because it's idiotic.  When you sell out in the open in small quantities with legitimate customers also present all you are doing is making it easier to get caught, one of those customers could be a cop for all you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAUEqslnTSY

I did not "insist" on small amounts, I pointed out that if you based your search on large payments, you'd miss the small purchases. You would indeed need to perform UA's on all the customers of dealer to catch all of his customers, and I'd point out that there are drugs which do not show up in UAs, or which are processed through the body and out again long before any such test can be performed.

And yes, selling drugs out of a drive-through window is probably a bad idea. But that doesn't mean that trusted customers to a bodega-type store can't be sold the tea they keep behind the counter.

Doing a UA on the entire customer base of such a store would:

1) be costly
2) be openly oppressive
3) miss some, or even most of the customers because they took drugs that the test can't find.

Prohibition doesn't work, even if you have the perfect snitch of the blockchain.

once again:

What I am telling you is it doesn't matter.  Big or small, when the government sees every transaction they will be able to untangle your operation.


By far the most commonly used dangerous illegal drug is marijuana, it is also the easiest to test for and the most profitable to criminal cartels (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126978142).  Drugs such as cocaine and heroin and meth are addictive enough that the customers tend to be daily users and will only be evading the test if you warn them of it ahead of time (which you aren't doing), and even then they might not be able to manage.  


Again, you are not the first drug abuser who has tried to figure this kind of thing out.  Code words, trusted people, whatever.  It's not sustainable, you get busted.  

Oops, you messed up just one time and gave someone the wrong bag.  Busted.

http://articles.cnn.com/2002-10-10/justice/ctv.scm_1_bank-robber-marijuana-hotel-pool?_s=PM:LAW



If there is any significant non-drug using customer base, the owner is a weapons grade idiot for not just catering to them instead of risking his business to sell illegal drugs when all a bust takes is one simple mistake, one careless employee, one person randomly getting pulled over when a cop saw them leave your store and getting caught with the drugs, and a billion other things that can go wrong even before you bring to the table the fact that all your transactions are being watched.


It works when done right, even in countries without Regulated Bitcoin Economies.   Look at Singapore where drug use is very low and harsh laws are enforced.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/05/singapore-policy-drugs-bay

You know what? You wanna advocate evil, go for it. I'm done playing along. Your plan is stupid, not least because if you managed it, everyone would drop Bitcoin like a hot rock. To say nothing of the waste and expense of the actual implementation. 

Just because you are having difficulty keeping up and understanding the simple and effective elegance of the proposal does not make it necessary to lash out in this manner.  If you don't have a rebuttal, that is fine, just calling it stupid does not make it so.  


This plan would be a huge boost for the economy of any country that implemented it and would help to wipe out drug abuse and organized crime which have been responsible for countless deaths and represent an ongoing tragic violation of human rights and human dignity.  Implementing this plan wouldn't be evil, it would be one of the greatest steps forward in the history of human civilization.

Forcibly drug testing hundreds if not thousands of people because one of their associates is caught with drugs is a "great step forward"? Analyzing every financial transaction in the country isn't evil? The fact that you point to Singapore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore) as your success story is all I need to know about you.

If you want to get organized crime out of the black market, the way to do it is not to crush your populace under an iron boot, but to remove the source of income from the black market. Move it into the white.

If you would like an example, I suggest you start reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition#Prohibition_in_the_United_States

When you're done with that, TIME has an article for you: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

Rarity, you are indeed a rarity on these forums.

Why on earth would you ever want government controlling economic transactions like that other than for enslaving and monitoring the populous?

How does your idea prevent black markets? They'll just use BlackCoin instead of your WhiteWashedBitcoin.

they definately only count to 3 at max. Look at the TSA workers that steal from luggage or take naked scan images of celebrities home as souvenirs

another point: Takeover bitcoin...what about litecoin?

they'd first need control over the internet

SOPA PIPA
CISPA
ACTA
CSA
et cetera

This.

...though that would be a great show. Especially if the sharks visited Equestria first.

In my experience, russians love trying out new things and are very cool people. N=3

Give me a link to the thread once you change your mind... sounds like some fun hardcore trolling.

My Little Pony is controlled by a central authority at the wonderful Hub Network.  Feel free to lobby them for any changes you desire.  I however, am not lobbying for radical changes to Bitcoin, or any changes at all to the technical workings.  It is a natural evolution to a greater degree of civilization and government control. 

Maybe the thread title should be "Why Rarity so fond of warping the ideals of Bitcoin every time they get high?"

or maybe, "Myrkul's Handbook: How to make false accusations when you have lost an argument on the merits."

Take you that long to come up with that, did it?

You idea has no merits, if you succeeded, you would either drive everyone out of your country, or out of Bitcoin. Either way, fail.

Or maybe, "Myrkul: Champion of shouting "NUH-UH!" as long as possible after he has lost an argument on the merits."

You're so cute. You think your argument actually has merits.

How 'bout this one: If I've lost the argument, Point out where. :D

Precisely at the moment where you contradicted Rarity.

In other words:

Yes, that is indeed what you have been saying since that moment when you vainly tried to dispute the full and honest truth of the universe.  It brings me joy to know you have accepted it.

Don't feel bad that it took you this long to come to terms with the truth, remember:         

   

ENUFF

Obvious troll is obvious.

Its called Mintchip

Your continuing development of self-awareness of the nature of your posting is heartening. 

I should know better than to expect adult conversation from a brony.

Welcome to the ignore list. I don't know why it took me this long, honestly.

Oh, you are on ignore. But I can click "show" to see your posts, and then the "quote" link comes up. The best part of this is how much of a fool you're making of yourself.

And meanwhile, your Ignore link gets darker for everyone else to see...

Let me know when you actually get to a post that does. ;)

Previously. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98804.msg1109746#msg1109746)

This is like arguing with my little sister.  She insists that she hates me and is ignoring me and doesn't want to talk to me anymore.  And then 2 seconds after she slams the door to her room she comes out crying and insisting I'm a big meany head but can't actually explain why she shouldn't have to do her homework.

how rare are u

I am named after a character named Rarity from the television program "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic"  It's a great show you should check it out.  Episodes are freely available on YouTube or on Netflix if you have an account there.

are you a female

Creep.

you lack sufficient post counts for me to read even a one word post. lo siento

Sockpuppet.

No.  Are you someone who thinks gender determines if a work of art is good or not?

Homophobe.

Flattered, but no.

I say we implement the Rarity system for political donations. Anytime a politician gets bitcoin donations from a non whitelisted address they get executed by firing squad.

Pegged it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101526.0
Bonus: Account created 3 minutes after that post by 420. First post out of newbie?

C'mon, Rarity. At least try to hide it.

No. Was there some art up for discussion?

The obvious drug use implied by your name suggests a lack of memory, so I will repeat that you were replying to a post discussing the television program "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic".  Please seek help for your drug problem before you damage your clarity of mind and body any further.  I can recommend a proven program that helps a lot of people here. (http://www.narconon.org/)

The obvious lack of maturity (or Asperger's syndrome) implied by your username suggests you mistake a childrens' television program for a work of art. Please seek some culture before you damage your social interactions any further. I can recommend several good museums, including one here (http://americanart.si.edu/).

The inability to understand that the field of art is an expansive tableau of nearly every form of human expression for audiences young and old is a far greater sign of immaturity and autism spectrum disorder than any preference anyone might have for a specific work of any kind.  An animated program such as MLP combines the artistic talents of writers, voice actors, singers, animators, directors, editors, and many others in every episode. 

Quality works made for children are regarded highly in the artistic world.  Children's entertainment routinely wins Oscars (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/28/us-oscars-toystory-idUSTRE71R1R720110228), and many examples of children's literature are considered essential classics.   (http://www.the-office.com/bedtime-story/alice-background.htm)

It's one thing to enjoy, and even respect a television show as a work of art. But to mold one's online persona around a character on that show is somewhat disturbing. I refer back to my post here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30204.msg1095708#msg1095708). This is why we think you are weird.

I didn't post that picture so I have no idea what it has to do with me.  I have nothing to do with that stuff.  The folks who swear up and down they hate the show but spend all day googling offensive shit to post when people are trying to have a conversation about a children's show are the creeps. It's not the Pony fans posting shit like this:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101526.msg1112247#msg1112247

 What is myrkul from?  Forgotten Realms?  You can Rule 34 Forgotten Realms stuff in a second.  However, I'm not going to post Dark Elf porn and claim my posting it makes you creepy.

It's kind of amusing it took only one post for you to admit your suggestion that MLP isn't art was idiotic.

Actually, I didn't post that picture. "Fluttershy" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30204.msg1095687#msg1095687) did. I simply copied the url. And yes, Myrkul is indeed from The Forgotten Realms. (I'm actually amazed you were able to come out of your rainbow pony haze to Google that. If you can convince me that you didn't have to Google it, I may have a heart attack.) But you'll note that I have not set my profile pic to his holy symbol, and neither my signature nor my custom title say anything about being the God of Death. I say again, it is the creepy, obsessive lengths that you go to that puts you across as people to be avoided.

And I never said that I respect My Little Pony as a work of art, merely allowed that if you wish to, you can. Just quit trying to shove it in our faces.

Again, I am not sure why you have decided to derail this thread to have an inquisition about what posters other than myself have posted.  I can point to quite a few sites were Drizzt is sticking more than two swords in someone if you know what I mean, but it makes very little sense for me to have a hissy fit like you are having about anyone who likes Forgotten Realms being a creep.  I am not going to read into your choice of user names or avatar to try and analyze your soul because that is idiotic, on other sites my avatar is the logo of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers but I've never had someone accuse me of pirate obsession.


And I never said you said that.  You said, "you mistake a childrens' television program for a work of art."  That is not a question of respect or not, it is art or not.

Your arguments are becoming more and more absurd and childish again as we move forward here.  As you grow older you are going to need to learn when to just accept it when you have lost an argument rather than having a temper tantrum.  You are also going to have to learn that it's okay if sometimes people don't like the same things as you.  Nobody is going to force you watch television shows you don't like or read threads you don't want to read. 

This is now how many continued posts since you pretended to put me on ignore?  When you grow up, you are going to learn that you can walk away from situations where you are mad but you can't find any intelligent way to express it.  Go punch a pillow or go hang out with friends or find a hobby.  Having a tantrum at me is not a responsible way to handle your feelings.  I'm going to go ahead and put you on ignore now and you will find that when an adult says that they actually mean it. If you would like to continue your tantrum that is fine, but it's going to start looking even more pathetic.  I recommend you don't go that way.

I derailed the thread?  :D


I promise you, I do have you on ignore, as well as several others, some of whom I choose to continue conversations with. Since this forum uses the ignore link as an impromptu reputation system, and allows me, if I so choose, to view posts from users I have ignored, I don't only use it to make trolls go away, I use it to express negative opinion of a user in such a way as is visible to every user who views any of your posts. Next time you're on your sockpuppet account, take a look at how dark your ignore link is highlighted. I'm clearly not alone in my opinion of you.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110830153912AADEUBD

OK, I have read through a bunch of this post, and I have a little bit of a bone to pick.

You previously mentioned the "accumulation of too much wealth" as a bad thing.  I would like you to expand on this.  Please explain the following:

a) how much is "too much"? 

b) Who gets to decide this, upon which basis is it decided, and how is this enforced?

c) Do you consider all accumulation of wealth to be bad, or are there specific methods of wealth accumulation that run contrary to your "ideal socialist society"?