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Title: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: janggernaut on March 14, 2015, 03:38:02 AM can anyone give me suggest about 5 gambling sites which really use "Provably fair"?
because many people said, "house always win". Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: alani123 on March 14, 2015, 03:43:24 AM moneypot.com
primedice.com satoshidice.com luckyb.it (http://luckyb.it/) Just-dice.com they're all provably fair, but their house edge varies from 0.5% to 1.9%. The house always wins anyway. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: reyhiesa on March 14, 2015, 03:44:55 AM can anyone give me suggest about 5 gambling sites which really use "Provably fair"? because many people said, "house always win". House always winning and being provably fair doesn't refer to the same thing. In the long run the house always wins even if they are provably fair, because of the house edge. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: janggernaut on March 14, 2015, 03:58:24 AM ok, thank you all,
but how about 999dice? its recommended for gambling? Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: NLNico on March 14, 2015, 04:02:43 AM It is only provably fair if you take the time to verify your games. You could read my detailed article at: http://dicesites.com/provably-fair for a better understanding of how provably fair works.
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: anshar on March 14, 2015, 04:07:58 AM No established bitcoin casino can go on for long without a strong provably fair system. Just search around for well known casinso, there's dozens.
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: bitbaby on March 14, 2015, 04:10:42 AM It is only provably fair if you take the time to verify your games. You could read my detailed article at: http://dicesites.com/provably-fair for a better understanding of how provably fair works. This was very informative and every dice player should at-least give this a thorough read once. I am gonna tweet about it, so my twitter followers can understand what 'Provably Fair' really means. Edit: Done (https://twitter.com/thebitbaby/status/576598272657129472) Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: waterpile on March 14, 2015, 04:12:50 AM ok, thank you all, but how about 999dice? its recommended for gambling? There are accusations that 999 is not fair and the owner can manipulate the result of the rollssl.. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: janggernaut on March 14, 2015, 04:16:39 AM ok, thank you all, but how about 999dice? its recommended for gambling? There are accusations that 999 is not fair and the owner can manipulate the result of the rollssl.. really? i'm must quit from that sites, thank you for the information Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: arallmuus on March 14, 2015, 04:17:27 AM feel free to check bitcoinstrip review (https://thebitcoinstrip.com/) by oldmate (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=401759) the sites put on almost complete review to almost all existing casino, you can check if the sites really implement provably fair or not
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: janggernaut on March 14, 2015, 04:32:51 AM feel free to check bitcoinstrip review (https://thebitcoinstrip.com/) by oldmate (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=401759) the sites put on almost complete review to almost all existing casino, you can check if the sites really implement provably fair or not yeah, i'm not see 999dice sites is a one of provably fair on bitcoinstip, thank you sir Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: MichaelSicili on March 14, 2015, 05:05:33 AM moneypot.com primedice.com satoshidice.com luckyb.it (http://luckyb.it/) Just-dice.com they're all provably fair, but their house edge varies from 0.5% to 1.9%. The house always wins anyway. which one the most little house edge? house edge take effect on our game? Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: omahapoker on March 14, 2015, 05:45:54 AM It is only provably fair if you take the time to verify your games. You could read my detailed article at: http://dicesites.com/provably-fair for a better understanding of how provably fair works. This was very informative and every dice player should at-least give this a thorough read once. I am gonna tweet about it, so my twitter followers can understand what 'Provably Fair' really means. Edit: Done (https://twitter.com/thebitbaby/status/576598272657129472) +800 followers. not bad. im tryin to get 2000, 110 short Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: waterpile on March 14, 2015, 05:46:41 AM moneypot.com primedice.com satoshidice.com luckyb.it (http://luckyb.it/) Just-dice.com they're all provably fair, but their house edge varies from 0.5% to 1.9%. The house always wins anyway. which one the most little house edge? house edge take effect on our game? Primedice have 0.9% house edge And lucky.bit have about 1% house edge If you need dice site with low house edge, then try SafeDice They only have 0.5% House edge Correct me if im wrong but I think luckyb.ithas no house edge coz its not a dice site, its a plinko.. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: yogg on March 14, 2015, 05:53:11 AM Correct me if im wrong but I think luckyb.ithas no house edge coz its not a dice site, its a plinko.. Every casino game has a house edge. It doesn't matter which type of game it is. Roulette wheel has a house edge. When you bet on red and win, you double your bet. But when the 0 comes out, the house collects all the bets on red and black. :D That's the catch. luckyb.it house edge is somewhere between 1% and 2% I believe. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: EvilPanda on March 14, 2015, 06:16:12 AM can anyone give me suggest about 5 gambling sites which really use "Provably fair"? because many people said, "house always win". You didn't understand that quote. It doesn't mean the game is rigged and they are cheating, but that you may have a winning streak but it will eventually be followed by a losing streak. The house always wins in the end :) Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: havecoch on March 14, 2015, 06:27:26 AM Looking at the number of gambling sites, all sites have been switching to a provably fair model of gambling.
So most of them are. The big examples are Primedice/Coinroyale/Cloudbet(asits live) Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: NLNico on March 14, 2015, 06:34:51 AM It is only provably fair if you take the time to verify your games. You could read my detailed article at: http://dicesites.com/provably-fair for a better understanding of how provably fair works. This was very informative and every dice player should at-least give this a thorough read once. I am gonna tweet about it, so my twitter followers can understand what 'Provably Fair' really means. Edit: Done (https://twitter.com/thebitbaby/status/576598272657129472) Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: fox19891989 on March 14, 2015, 06:48:38 AM dadice(click my signature link to register ;) :D)
Primedice justdice fortunejack About Provably fair conception. I have my explanation, but this one is better than mine, so I just show you this passage. http://dicesites.com/provably-fair What is "provably fair"? Players always fear to be cheated on an online casino. This is understandable because it is technically very easy for an online casino to just make you lose. In the Bitcoin gambling community we have a solution for this called "provably fair". Provably fair is a tool that enables you (the player) to verify each roll result and make sure you are not being cheated! The easy way is to just use our provably fair verifiers, fill in the information the website is providing you and check the roll results. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: boopy265420 on March 14, 2015, 08:07:25 AM dadice(click my signature link to register ;) :D) Well explained the meaning of word '' provably fair ''. So players can play there without any worry or doubt as these are pf. Primedice justdice fortunejack About Provably fair conception. I have my explanation, but this one is better than mine, so I just show you this passage. http://dicesites.com/provably-fair What is "provably fair"? Players always fear to be cheated on an online casino. This is understandable because it is technically very easy for an online casino to just make you lose. In the Bitcoin gambling community we have a solution for this called "provably fair". Provably fair is a tool that enables you (the player) to verify each roll result and make sure you are not being cheated! The easy way is to just use our provably fair verifiers, fill in the information the website is providing you and check the roll results. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: GannickusX on March 14, 2015, 10:14:27 AM I thought there were casinos with 0% house edge around here, correct me if im wrong
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Minnlo on March 14, 2015, 03:18:32 PM moneypot.com primedice.com satoshidice.com luckyb.it (http://luckyb.it/) Just-dice.com they're all provably fair, but their house edge varies from 0.5% to 1.9%. The house always wins anyway. which one the most little house edge? house edge take effect on our game? Primedice have 0.9% house edge And lucky.bit have about 1% house edge If you need dice site with low house edge, then try SafeDice They only have 0.5% House edge Correct me if im wrong but I think luckyb.ithas no house edge coz its not a dice site, its a plinko.. Primedice has a house edge of 1%. When PD3 was released, it came with a jackpot feature making the house edge 0.91%. But the feature has been removed now. LB has a house edge of roughly 1.66% - 1.76%, depending on which line you are playing. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Minnlo on March 14, 2015, 03:26:30 PM I thought there were casinos with 0% house edge around here, correct me if im wrong AFAIK there are at least 2 games with 0% house edge, the PvP on Primedice and the PvP raffle game on Peerbet. The downside is that there are not many players and it is hard for you to find a good match. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 14, 2015, 03:27:55 PM I thought there were casinos with 0% house edge around here, correct me if im wrong AFAIK there are at least 2 games with 0% house edge, the PvP on Primedice and the PvP raffle game on Peerbet. The downside is that there are not many players and it is hard for you to find a good match. A dice with 0% house edge would still make profit so i dont know why no one made it, it would atract a lot of players Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Minnlo on March 14, 2015, 03:48:31 PM I thought there were casinos with 0% house edge around here, correct me if im wrong AFAIK there are at least 2 games with 0% house edge, the PvP on Primedice and the PvP raffle game on Peerbet. The downside is that there are not many players and it is hard for you to find a good match. A dice with 0% house edge would still make profit so i dont know why no one made it, it would atract a lot of players I don't quite get it. By definition, "0% house edge" means the game has a expected value of zero to both the players and the house. So how would a 0% house edge game bring profit to the house? ??? Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: goose20 on March 14, 2015, 04:15:12 PM I thought there were casinos with 0% house edge around here, correct me if im wrong AFAIK there are at least 2 games with 0% house edge, the PvP on Primedice and the PvP raffle game on Peerbet. The downside is that there are not many players and it is hard for you to find a good match. A dice with 0% house edge would still make profit so i dont know why no one made it, it would atract a lot of players I don't quite get it. By definition, "0% house edge" means the game has a expected value of zero to both the players and the house. So how would a 0% house edge game bring profit to the house? ??? It doesn't in itself. But the house hopes players will play other house games that do have a house edge. It's a marketing strategy. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 14, 2015, 04:18:56 PM I thought there were casinos with 0% house edge around here, correct me if im wrong AFAIK there are at least 2 games with 0% house edge, the PvP on Primedice and the PvP raffle game on Peerbet. The downside is that there are not many players and it is hard for you to find a good match. A dice with 0% house edge would still make profit so i dont know why no one made it, it would atract a lot of players I don't quite get it. By definition, "0% house edge" means the game has a expected value of zero to both the players and the house. So how would a 0% house edge game bring profit to the house? ??? It doesn't in itself. But the house hopes players will play other house games that do have a house edge. It's a marketing strategy. Not really?? With a 0% house edge casinos would still win, why? Easy at the moment you start using a strategy, it doesnt matter you name it, martingale you would still lose using martingale, yes the odds are a bit better per bet now but you will still see 20 lose streaks or more, the 0 house edge only affects players if you bet static, you bet 10k satoshis every bet, yes in the long term you would have a 0 profit but no one is gonna do that, right? So as i said before casinos would still win Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Shogen on March 14, 2015, 04:26:08 PM I thought there were casinos with 0% house edge around here, correct me if im wrong AFAIK there are at least 2 games with 0% house edge, the PvP on Primedice and the PvP raffle game on Peerbet. The downside is that there are not many players and it is hard for you to find a good match. A dice with 0% house edge would still make profit so i dont know why no one made it, it would atract a lot of players I don't quite get it. By definition, "0% house edge" means the game has a expected value of zero to both the players and the house. So how would a 0% house edge game bring profit to the house? ??? It doesn't in itself. But the house hopes players will play other house games that do have a house edge. It's a marketing strategy. Not really?? With a 0% house edge casinos would still win, why? Easy at the moment you start using a strategy, it doesnt matter you name it, martingale you would still lose using martingale, yes the odds are a bit better per bet now but you will still see 20 lose streaks or more, the 0 house edge only affects players if you bet static, you bet 10k satoshis every bet, yes in the long term you would have a 0 profit but no one is gonna do that, right? So as i said before casinos would still win Well it looks like you are assuming people will keep on playing until they are broke. :P With that assumption, I guess you are right. A player need to have extremely good luck to wipe out the house bankroll before losing all his money, when the house has hundreds or thousands times more bitcoin. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Slark on March 14, 2015, 04:41:18 PM Op, as you now probably know gambling is not that easy you will probably lose more than you win. You will lose no matter what, it does not matter if game is rigged or it is "provably fair" I got the impression that you are looking for a online bitcoin casino which is better than most because it will allow you to win more. There is no such place. So just pick your favourite casino and start playing.
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: micromen on March 14, 2015, 04:48:42 PM personally I like safedice.com :)
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 14, 2015, 04:53:18 PM can anyone give me suggest about 5 gambling sites which really use "Provably fair"? because many people said, "house always win". Provably fair simply means -- "if the casino cheats you, you can detect it". It doesn't mean you can stop them cheating you (you can't) and doesn't mean you expect to make money (you don't). It just means that if the casino is cheating you, it's detectable. ok, thank you all, but how about 999dice? its recommended for gambling? No, definitely not. They lie about being provably fair, with a backdoor scheme. If they cheat you, you can't know for sure. Hence it being not provably fair. This place is scum anyway, you should avoid it. They also claim to operate on a 0.05% margin, while allowing 40 BTC wins. lolz I thought there were casinos with 0% house edge around here, correct me if im wrong There are. Some PvP games allow no edge (since they're not exposed to any risk). Money Pot allows you to play with a 0% house edge (by instantly cashing out) at the expense of being bait to bonus snatchers. DirectDice spams every thread with claims of 0% for frequent betters. I haven't looked into it though, as it sounds like some tard/scammy scheme. Not really?? With a 0% house edge casinos would still win That's incorrect, as is your reasoning. You can write a simulation if you don't believe it. But even if the vast-majority of people will bust with a 0% house edge, the ones that don't will bust the house. A casino couldn't safely offer a 0 house edge game for a single satoshi if it could be played an infinite amount of times. If i write a simulation using martingale i will eventually bust, and that would happen with any other strategy, why dont you try it yourself, your reasoning is incorrect not mine, the ones that dont will bust the house? People are greedy, for example the guy who won 7k btc on just-dice and ended up loosing, people its always greedy and thats why a 0% house edge casino would still win Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 14, 2015, 05:55:16 PM If i write a simulation using martingale i will eventually bust, and that would happen with any other strategy, why dont you try it yourself, your reasoning is incorrect not mine, the ones that dont will bust the house? People are greedy, for example the guy who won 7k btc on just-dice and ended up loosing, people its always greedy and thats why a 0% house edge casino would still win Ok, let's do it -- a simple simulation of a greedy player who never stops gambling (unless he busts): Code: var startingBankroll = 100; Now run that, and watch as the vast majority of players will bust. But occasionally you'll get to a real gem like this guy: Quote Player has made 2300000000 bets at a profit of: 161962 BTC Player has made 2400000000 bets at a profit of: 175434 BTC Player has made 2500000000 bets at a profit of: 195960 BTC Player has made 2600000000 bets at a profit of: 207738 BTC Player has made 2700000000 bets at a profit of: 205418 BTC Player has made 2800000000 bets at a profit of: 209382 BTC Player has made 2900000000 bets at a profit of: 206398 BTC Player has made 3000000000 bets at a profit of: 217148 BTC Player has made 3100000000 bets at a profit of: 237032 BTC Player has made 3200000000 bets at a profit of: 251848 BTC Player has made 3300000000 bets at a profit of: 248634 BTC Player has made 3400000000 bets at a profit of: 252256 BTC Player has made 3500000000 bets at a profit of: 251060 BTC Player has made 3600000000 bets at a profit of: 260898 BTC Player has made 3700000000 bets at a profit of: 281134 BTC Player has made 3800000000 bets at a profit of: 294792 BTC Player has made 3900000000 bets at a profit of: 291088 BTC Player has made 4000000000 bets at a profit of: 295030 BTC Player has made 4100000000 bets at a profit of: 295540 BTC Player has made 4200000000 bets at a profit of: 304886 BTC Player has made 4300000000 bets at a profit of: 323828 BTC Player has made 4400000000 bets at a profit of: 337964 BTC Player has made 4500000000 bets at a profit of: 334380 BTC Player has made 4600000000 bets at a profit of: 338690 BTC You really think the casino can handle billions of more bets, hoping it can make its hundreds of thousands of bitcoins back? And do you honestly think a casino would be willing to expose itself to unbounded liability for 0 expected profit?! It doesn't work, never has, never will. But perhaps, what we'll see is bet-match-making where 0% house edge is actually feasible. That way players can play with 0-edge, and casinos aren't the counter-party I dont understand that at all, what is that player using? Martingale? And how is he making 4 bilion bets? Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: DogecoinMachine on March 14, 2015, 06:03:48 PM https//www.crypto-games.net (http://https//www.crypto-games.net) -> Provably Fair Dice & Slot
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 14, 2015, 06:15:49 PM I dont understand that at all, what is that player using? Martingale? And how is he making 4 bilion bets? He is able to make that many bets -- because he hasn't yet busted. In my simulation, the player never quits until he's busted (just like you said, about a player being greedy). So even though he's up hundreds of thousands of bitcoins, he caries on. Which just shows how ridiculous using the "greed" nonsense is. With no house edge, a player being greedy doesn't help the casino -- just increases its chance of the casino busting (all for making 0 expected return. a silly value proposition) What strategy is he using ??? Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: superSTAR777 on March 14, 2015, 06:57:06 PM can anyone give me suggest about 5 gambling sites which really use "Provably fair"? because many people said, "house always win". house edge wins , doesnt means site is not provably fair , just its that site maintain a edge to make profit and there ar tons of honest sites :) like primedice, prcdice , etc Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: GannickusX on March 14, 2015, 08:00:51 PM If i write a simulation using martingale i will eventually bust, and that would happen with any other strategy, why dont you try it yourself, your reasoning is incorrect not mine, the ones that dont will bust the house? People are greedy, for example the guy who won 7k btc on just-dice and ended up loosing, people its always greedy and thats why a 0% house edge casino would still win Ok, let's do it -- a simple simulation of a greedy player who never stops gambling (unless he busts): Code: var startingBankroll = 100; Now run that, and watch as the vast majority of players will bust. But occasionally you'll get to a real gem like this guy: Quote Player has made 2300000000 bets at a profit of: 161962 BTC Player has made 2400000000 bets at a profit of: 175434 BTC Player has made 2500000000 bets at a profit of: 195960 BTC Player has made 2600000000 bets at a profit of: 207738 BTC Player has made 2700000000 bets at a profit of: 205418 BTC Player has made 2800000000 bets at a profit of: 209382 BTC Player has made 2900000000 bets at a profit of: 206398 BTC Player has made 3000000000 bets at a profit of: 217148 BTC Player has made 3100000000 bets at a profit of: 237032 BTC Player has made 3200000000 bets at a profit of: 251848 BTC Player has made 3300000000 bets at a profit of: 248634 BTC Player has made 3400000000 bets at a profit of: 252256 BTC Player has made 3500000000 bets at a profit of: 251060 BTC Player has made 3600000000 bets at a profit of: 260898 BTC Player has made 3700000000 bets at a profit of: 281134 BTC Player has made 3800000000 bets at a profit of: 294792 BTC Player has made 3900000000 bets at a profit of: 291088 BTC Player has made 4000000000 bets at a profit of: 295030 BTC Player has made 4100000000 bets at a profit of: 295540 BTC Player has made 4200000000 bets at a profit of: 304886 BTC Player has made 4300000000 bets at a profit of: 323828 BTC Player has made 4400000000 bets at a profit of: 337964 BTC Player has made 4500000000 bets at a profit of: 334380 BTC Player has made 4600000000 bets at a profit of: 338690 BTC You really think the casino can handle billions of more bets, hoping it can make its hundreds of thousands of bitcoins back? And do you honestly think a casino would be willing to expose itself to unbounded liability for 0 expected profit?! It doesn't work, never has, never will. But perhaps, what we'll see is bet-match-making where 0% house edge is actually feasible. That way players can play with 0-edge, and casinos aren't the counter-party Im sorry to tell you but your simulation is wrong or i just didnt understand how was the player betting Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: activebiz on March 14, 2015, 10:18:52 PM I don't think there are such casinos around. the best suggestions would be primedice, coinroyale.
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: deluxeCITY on March 14, 2015, 10:24:38 PM I don't think there are such casinos around. the best suggestions would be primedice, coinroyale. There are fair casino's just look at any that have been out the longest and i am sure if there was a problem then there would be multiple complaints in any amount of time before i started my sig campaign i played bitdice and never had a problem in well over 5 months the site has been going over a year so i recommend them for that plus a decent owner who will not do a runnerr. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: asuryan180 on March 14, 2015, 10:57:20 PM I would give Dadice a go they are spending a good amount on their campaign and that is a good sign to me that they mean business and they are not about to release a unfair dice site that will not last a week before complaints ya know, has graphics and is a fun experience highly recommended and not just because i am wearing their sig lol
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: adaseb on March 14, 2015, 11:33:00 PM Most sites these days use provably fair.
However you need to keep in mind that since the client seed doesn't usually change, they can still cheat you assuming you never change your seed. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: birdcat90 on March 14, 2015, 11:40:39 PM the only thing that i know is Primedice, just dice and new dice that just launched looks like primedice but hope its work like that too
its so hard to find site that really fair, at least some will d0 tricky things Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: goose20 on March 14, 2015, 11:40:46 PM If i write a simulation using martingale i will eventually bust, and that would happen with any other strategy, why dont you try it yourself, your reasoning is incorrect not mine, the ones that dont will bust the house? People are greedy, for example the guy who won 7k btc on just-dice and ended up loosing, people its always greedy and thats why a 0% house edge casino would still win Ok, let's do it -- a simple simulation of a greedy player who never stops gambling (unless he busts): Code: var startingBankroll = 100; Now run that, and watch as the vast majority of players will bust. But occasionally you'll get to a real gem like this guy: Quote Player has made 2300000000 bets at a profit of: 161962 BTC Player has made 2400000000 bets at a profit of: 175434 BTC Player has made 2500000000 bets at a profit of: 195960 BTC Player has made 2600000000 bets at a profit of: 207738 BTC Player has made 2700000000 bets at a profit of: 205418 BTC Player has made 2800000000 bets at a profit of: 209382 BTC Player has made 2900000000 bets at a profit of: 206398 BTC Player has made 3000000000 bets at a profit of: 217148 BTC Player has made 3100000000 bets at a profit of: 237032 BTC Player has made 3200000000 bets at a profit of: 251848 BTC Player has made 3300000000 bets at a profit of: 248634 BTC Player has made 3400000000 bets at a profit of: 252256 BTC Player has made 3500000000 bets at a profit of: 251060 BTC Player has made 3600000000 bets at a profit of: 260898 BTC Player has made 3700000000 bets at a profit of: 281134 BTC Player has made 3800000000 bets at a profit of: 294792 BTC Player has made 3900000000 bets at a profit of: 291088 BTC Player has made 4000000000 bets at a profit of: 295030 BTC Player has made 4100000000 bets at a profit of: 295540 BTC Player has made 4200000000 bets at a profit of: 304886 BTC Player has made 4300000000 bets at a profit of: 323828 BTC Player has made 4400000000 bets at a profit of: 337964 BTC Player has made 4500000000 bets at a profit of: 334380 BTC Player has made 4600000000 bets at a profit of: 338690 BTC You really think the casino can handle billions of more bets, hoping it can make its hundreds of thousands of bitcoins back? And do you honestly think a casino would be willing to expose itself to unbounded liability for 0 expected profit?! It doesn't work, never has, never will. But perhaps, what we'll see is bet-match-making where 0% house edge is actually feasible. That way players can play with 0-edge, and casinos aren't the counter-party I dont understand that at all, what is that player using? Martingale? And how is he making 4 bilion bets? I'm no coder, but the code seems straightforward to follow... the player starts with 100 and bets 1 each go at 50%. This player has not yet busted and is up 338k after 46 billion bets. The point is espringe is correct in his analysis and his explanation. People have it ingrained in their heads that 'the house always wins'. This is due to a house edge, even if its 0.01%. No casino could survive offering only 0% games. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 15, 2015, 07:40:55 AM If i write a simulation using martingale i will eventually bust, and that would happen with any other strategy, why dont you try it yourself, your reasoning is incorrect not mine, the ones that dont will bust the house? People are greedy, for example the guy who won 7k btc on just-dice and ended up loosing, people its always greedy and thats why a 0% house edge casino would still win Ok, let's do it -- a simple simulation of a greedy player who never stops gambling (unless he busts): Code: var startingBankroll = 100; Now run that, and watch as the vast majority of players will bust. But occasionally you'll get to a real gem like this guy: Quote Player has made 2300000000 bets at a profit of: 161962 BTC Player has made 2400000000 bets at a profit of: 175434 BTC Player has made 2500000000 bets at a profit of: 195960 BTC Player has made 2600000000 bets at a profit of: 207738 BTC Player has made 2700000000 bets at a profit of: 205418 BTC Player has made 2800000000 bets at a profit of: 209382 BTC Player has made 2900000000 bets at a profit of: 206398 BTC Player has made 3000000000 bets at a profit of: 217148 BTC Player has made 3100000000 bets at a profit of: 237032 BTC Player has made 3200000000 bets at a profit of: 251848 BTC Player has made 3300000000 bets at a profit of: 248634 BTC Player has made 3400000000 bets at a profit of: 252256 BTC Player has made 3500000000 bets at a profit of: 251060 BTC Player has made 3600000000 bets at a profit of: 260898 BTC Player has made 3700000000 bets at a profit of: 281134 BTC Player has made 3800000000 bets at a profit of: 294792 BTC Player has made 3900000000 bets at a profit of: 291088 BTC Player has made 4000000000 bets at a profit of: 295030 BTC Player has made 4100000000 bets at a profit of: 295540 BTC Player has made 4200000000 bets at a profit of: 304886 BTC Player has made 4300000000 bets at a profit of: 323828 BTC Player has made 4400000000 bets at a profit of: 337964 BTC Player has made 4500000000 bets at a profit of: 334380 BTC Player has made 4600000000 bets at a profit of: 338690 BTC You really think the casino can handle billions of more bets, hoping it can make its hundreds of thousands of bitcoins back? And do you honestly think a casino would be willing to expose itself to unbounded liability for 0 expected profit?! It doesn't work, never has, never will. But perhaps, what we'll see is bet-match-making where 0% house edge is actually feasible. That way players can play with 0-edge, and casinos aren't the counter-party I dont understand that at all, what is that player using? Martingale? And how is he making 4 bilion bets? I'm no coder, but the code seems straightforward to follow... the player starts with 100 and bets 1 each go at 50%. This player has not yet busted and is up 338k after 46 billion bets. The point is espringe is correct in his analysis and his explanation. People have it ingrained in their heads that 'the house always wins'. This is due to a house edge, even if its 0.01%. No casino could survive offering only 0% games. If he is betting 1 btc each time, the expected profit in the long term is 0, how is he able to make 200.000 bitcoins? How is he able to win 200.000 more than loosing when the chances are 50/50? Makes no sense Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: oldmate on March 15, 2015, 08:35:31 AM You can browse a list of nearly all Bitcoin casinos on TheBitcoinStrip.com (https://thebitcoinstrip.com/) and filter by "provably fair" up the top right. :)
Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: a1choi on March 15, 2015, 03:03:43 PM If he is betting 1 btc each time, the expected profit in the long term is 0, how is he able to make 200.000 bitcoins? How is he able to win 200.000 more than loosing when the chances are 50/50? Makes no sense He'd only need to double his coins 17.6 times to earn more than 200K coins starting from 1. The probability of that happening is 0.5^17.6 is 1/200000. Which means 1 out of 200000 people will encounter this. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 15, 2015, 03:08:46 PM If he is betting 1 btc each time, the expected profit in the long term is 0, how is he able to make 200.000 bitcoins? How is he able to win 200.000 more than loosing when the chances are 50/50? Makes no sense He'd only need to double his coins 17.6 times to earn more than 200K coins starting from 1. The probability of that happening is 0.5^17.6 is 1/200000. Which means 1 out of 200000 people will encounter this. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. What do you mean double his coins? Double 1 btc 17.6 times? Like 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 ... ? Because if thats what you saying it would be impossible since casinos have a max bet so i still dont see how that is possible unless you explain yourself better Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: a1choi on March 15, 2015, 03:24:40 PM If he is betting 1 btc each time, the expected profit in the long term is 0, how is he able to make 200.000 bitcoins? How is he able to win 200.000 more than loosing when the chances are 50/50? Makes no sense He'd only need to double his coins 17.6 times to earn more than 200K coins starting from 1. The probability of that happening is 0.5^17.6 is 1/200000. Which means 1 out of 200000 people will encounter this. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. What do you mean double his coins? Double 1 btc 17.6 times? Like 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 ... ? Because if thats what you saying it would be impossible since casinos have a max bet so i still dont see how that is possible unless you explain yourself better Looks like i didn't look at the simulation code. The code basically does a bet of 1 for each round (thus satisfying any concerns about max bet limits). And thus, the bettor was able to get a profit of 200k with only bets of 1. This might seem impossible, but it clearly isn't. I'm sure someone with better math skills that I have can figure out the probability of this happening, and it clearly is > 0. The probability of this happening is much much smaller than 1/200000, but still larger than 0. TLDR Minuscule probability doesn't mean impossible. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: havecoch on March 15, 2015, 03:27:48 PM If he is betting 1 btc each time, the expected profit in the long term is 0, how is he able to make 200.000 bitcoins? How is he able to win 200.000 more than loosing when the chances are 50/50? Makes no sense He'd only need to double his coins 17.6 times to earn more than 200K coins starting from 1. The probability of that happening is 0.5^17.6 is 1/200000. Which means 1 out of 200000 people will encounter this. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. It is far fetched if you consider the total number of total possibilities that exist and he would have to hit that streak on the first bet. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: a1choi on March 15, 2015, 03:32:35 PM If he is betting 1 btc each time, the expected profit in the long term is 0, how is he able to make 200.000 bitcoins? How is he able to win 200.000 more than loosing when the chances are 50/50? Makes no sense He'd only need to double his coins 17.6 times to earn more than 200K coins starting from 1. The probability of that happening is 0.5^17.6 is 1/200000. Which means 1 out of 200000 people will encounter this. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. It is far fetched if you consider the total number of total possibilities that exist and he would have to hit that streak on the first bet. it's far fetched to believe YOU will be the 1 out of 200k people to win in this scenario. It isn't far fetched to believe that there WILL be 1 out of 200k people to do it. as this is what the probabilities tell us. (notice that in real life results, you'll have some factor of variance along with this mean) Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 15, 2015, 03:33:52 PM If he is betting 1 btc each time, the expected profit in the long term is 0, how is he able to make 200.000 bitcoins? How is he able to win 200.000 more than loosing when the chances are 50/50? Makes no sense He'd only need to double his coins 17.6 times to earn more than 200K coins starting from 1. The probability of that happening is 0.5^17.6 is 1/200000. Which means 1 out of 200000 people will encounter this. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. It is far fetched if you consider the total number of total possibilities that exist and he would have to hit that streak on the first bet. it's far fetched to believe YOU will be the 1 out of 200k people to win in this scenario. It isn't far fetched to believe that there WILL be 1 out of 200k people to do it. as this is what the probabilities tell us. (notice that in real life results, you'll have some factor of variance along with this mean) I still didnt understand what is he doing, what system is he using, could explain? Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 15, 2015, 03:35:28 PM If he is betting 1 btc each time, the expected profit in the long term is 0, how is he able to make 200.000 bitcoins? How is he able to win 200.000 more than loosing when the chances are 50/50? Makes no sense He'd only need to double his coins 17.6 times to earn more than 200K coins starting from 1. The probability of that happening is 0.5^17.6 is 1/200000. Which means 1 out of 200000 people will encounter this. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. What do you mean double his coins? Double 1 btc 17.6 times? Like 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 ... ? Because if thats what you saying it would be impossible since casinos have a max bet so i still dont see how that is possible unless you explain yourself better Looks like i didn't look at the simulation code. The code basically does a bet of 1 for each round (thus satisfying any concerns about max bet limits). And thus, the bettor was able to get a profit of 200k with only bets of 1. This might seem impossible, but it clearly isn't. I'm sure someone with better math skills that I have can figure out the probability of this happening, and it clearly is > 0. The probability of this happening is much much smaller than 1/200000, but still larger than 0. TLDR Minuscule probability doesn't mean impossible. To get a profit of 200k with a 0% house edge? It pretty much means impossible Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: a1choi on March 15, 2015, 03:52:37 PM I still didnt understand what is he doing, what system is he using, could explain? He isn't using a system, he is flatbetting. To get a profit of 200k with a 0% house edge? It pretty much means impossible It's impossible for one person on one try. But take a LOT of people trying this, and maybe one person will do it. Thats the point. That one person is not an impossibility, and if you are a casino operator, you will not want that possibility to happen. Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Bardman on March 15, 2015, 04:24:02 PM I still didnt understand what is he doing, what system is he using, could explain? He isn't using a system, he is flatbetting. To get a profit of 200k with a 0% house edge? It pretty much means impossible It's impossible for one person on one try. But take a LOT of people trying this, and maybe one person will do it. Thats the point. That one person is not an impossibility, and if you are a casino operator, you will not want that possibility to happen. Do you know the chances of that happening? Winning 200.000 times more than loosing? With a 50/50? Calculate them and then you will realize how mistaken you were Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: goose20 on March 15, 2015, 09:43:05 PM I still didnt understand what is he doing, what system is he using, could explain? He isn't using a system, he is flatbetting. To get a profit of 200k with a 0% house edge? It pretty much means impossible It's impossible for one person on one try. But take a LOT of people trying this, and maybe one person will do it. Thats the point. That one person is not an impossibility, and if you are a casino operator, you will not want that possibility to happen. Do you know the chances of that happening? Winning 200.000 times more than loosing? With a 50/50? Calculate them and then you will realize how mistaken you were Seriously, are you trolling or what??? He has bet 46000000000... that's BILLION... times. He is only up 338000. Calc 338k / 46 billion. = 0.000007%. Now ask the question again, does it seem possible someone could be up only 7 after a massive 100000 bets. YES, seems easily possible to me... I seriously dont get why you think this would be so impossible. Is it the big numbers that's confusing you? Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: Tlee88 on March 15, 2015, 10:12:24 PM I would recommend
1. Rollin.io 2. Bitzino :) Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: rizkyhiw on March 16, 2015, 06:25:49 AM moneypot.com primedice.com satoshidice.com luckyb.it (http://luckyb.it/) Just-dice.com they're all provably fair, but their house edge varies from 0.5% to 1.9%. The house always wins anyway. which one the most little house edge? house edge take effect on our game? Primedice have 0.9% house edge And lucky.bit have about 1% house edge If you need dice site with low house edge, then try SafeDice They only have 0.5% House edge i've played in luckybit, it was funny primedice yeah its very famous around here. oh really just 0.5%? but the site is legit? imean safedice legit? Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: GannickusX on March 16, 2015, 07:41:17 AM I still didnt understand what is he doing, what system is he using, could explain? He isn't using a system, he is flatbetting. To get a profit of 200k with a 0% house edge? It pretty much means impossible It's impossible for one person on one try. But take a LOT of people trying this, and maybe one person will do it. Thats the point. That one person is not an impossibility, and if you are a casino operator, you will not want that possibility to happen. Do you know the chances of that happening? Winning 200.000 times more than loosing? With a 50/50? Calculate them and then you will realize how mistaken you were Seriously, are you trolling or what??? He has bet 46000000000... that's BILLION... times. He is only up 338000. Calc 338k / 46 billion. = 0.000007%. Now ask the question again, does it seem possible someone could be up only 7 after a massive 100000 bets. YES, seems easily possible to me... I seriously dont get why you think this would be so impossible. Is it the big numbers that's confusing you? First of all it is impossible for someone to make a billion bets, even a million its extremely hard so thats that, now if he were to make 1 million bets he would win 7 btc with a 0.000007% chance so yeah as you can see unless he finds a way to make billions of bets the 0% house edge casino would still win Title: Re: Provably fair gambling sites Post by: bitbink on March 16, 2015, 11:00:03 AM moneypot.com primedice.com satoshidice.com luckyb.it (http://luckyb.it/) Just-dice.com they're all provably fair, but their house edge varies from 0.5% to 1.9%. The house always wins anyway. which one the most little house edge? house edge take effect on our game? Primedice have 0.9% house edge And lucky.bit have about 1% house edge If you need dice site with low house edge, then try SafeDice They only have 0.5% House edge And if you need site with 0% house edge, try BitBink :) |