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Hi all,

Would any of you consider using a paintball marker for home defence, in a riot situation to ward off violent people from approaching your home?

NB: Paintball marker shooting within the legal power limits of state.

Have a look at this review of BT DFENDER MARKER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBZQhD9s2g
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIClSu6D80I

It is an expensive marker, out of my league

This sounds like a good way to get shot to death and have no defense. If you had no other options available, maybe... but I would suggest something like this if you absolutely can't get or refuse to get a firearm.

http://www.drozdmax.com/bb-machine-guns.html

There are hard nylon balls or powder filled paintballs. These markers can exceed the normal 12 - 16 Joule muzzle energy, going up to 20 - 30 Joules for experts who know how to tune their markers to maximum power.

BB guns penetrate, but paintball markers just pack a punch, especially if you use hard balls.

Of course, the DROZD can have a higher muzzle energy, if you know how to install an extended inner barrel.
However, the DROZD will not be available in countries that BAN FULL AUTO AIR WEAPONS.
This is the real reason why I even suggest paintball with hard balls.

A standard marker or even a high powered one is useless for home defense, since a piece of wood, metal or even thick clothing will basically render your marker useless. That said, if you got capsicum filled ammo (which I've seen, but never used), then you might have a good deterrent, as even blocking the shots wouldn't help unless you had some sort of respirator and eye protection. You could effectively disable all but the most determined individuals if the ammo is high enough concentration and you can throw enough of it downrange.

I am aware of specialized ammo for paintball guns and that the PSI can be cranked up, it is still an inferior self defense weapon. The primary reason being is your ammo is limited and you can only (unless full auto) fire as fast as your finger can pull the trigger. Second, paintball guns and their tanks and hoppers are usually very large and cumbersome. With a full auto BB gun, you spray someone with that once and they will be very motivated to leave, and the chances of it killing them are very low if you aren't aiming at the head. If you use it carefully you could use it to fight off a whole crowd of people, unlike a paintball gun.

Pepperballs can be expensive and even unavailable (or illegal for civilian use) in some countries. Hard nylon balls are also a good option, but they ate difficult to get hold of.

I have fired these hard nylon balls, they punch holes through 8mm thick particle board or plywood at point-blank range.

Here is a video of them being shot into the arm of a live human target, the ball got stuck in his arm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3--lSBoCXYA

http://www.deadstopshields.com/

Ballistic Shield + Fist = Unconscious Rioter ;)

OR, you could just smack them in the face with the shield itself depending on how good you are, ballistic shields and the like are perfect for riot scenarios, most people don't have guns, but even if they do something like this will at least stop some rounds without putting you at risk law wise.

Spear guns (for divers).

paintball marker to defence against whom? what a joke

Its for RIOT police.. Normal countries in EU does not have gun nuts like the US does.
If the police starts fireing rubber balls at you with that kind of force, then people are gonna run.. No one can stand against it.

Whats next? Gonna do like what happend in egypt?
Just open fire with real rifles on civilians that are unarmed?

Stupid americans..

No. That wouldn't knock them out but after hitting some of them the rest would be really pissed off.

Ballistic shield to the face! Ballistic shield to the face! :D

Neh, You're just going to make them angry and pissed, better use a tesla coil or 1 tank of pepper spray with a hose :P

I suggested paintball, because it is a TOY that can be used as a low power weapon. You do not need FAC certificate, no fear of confiscation, you can use other ammo such a rubber balls, plastic-nylon balls or other hard balls.
I prefer them to air- rifles, because paintball with solid balls will not penetrate, but will provide blunt force.

Really? Some of the countries with the highest gun ownership ratio in the world are in Europe.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Guns.png/279px-Guns.png

Yeah, those scarey rubber balls! I'd run, too, unless I had something like a piece of wood or metal to block them. It's a shame you can't find a shield like that just anywhere on the ground for free... oh wait...

Stupid Eurotrash.

It is a pity that American police must always use LIVE ammo. As big as they are, they cannot develop a more tame method for everyday use.

LMAO... I could just imagine someone pulling a tippman on me... I'd bust that shit over their head so fast... Forget a paintball gun man.. If anything arm yourself with a Bat, golfclub, butcher knife, tire iron ect..... you gotta put the toys away dude, for real!

I am talking about home defence. With a paintball marker with solid nylon balls shooting at over 350 fps, you can hit a target 10 metres away, just like punching somebody that is 10 metres away. You could even fire from a hidden location, if it is all dark, etc.
More importantly, it is NON-LETHAL, so you can do a "HIT AND RUN".

I can see it now, talking about home defense to the wife/girlfriend.

"Honey, I'm ready for anything bad that might happen here.  I have my Paintball Gun."

Versus...

"Honey, if anyone breaks in, what size holes would you like in them?  How many?  Okay, no problem."

It will not kill, but it can temporarily incapacitate, especially if you live in a non-gun country. No need for licence, continuous monitoring - it really depends if you have access to hard balls.
I am talking about nylon balls used in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb3O5rVjiQ8

It is not the best option, but it is better than nothing, they pose minimal collateral damage to property or bystanders, unlike real bullets that destroy property of even incapacitate innocent bystanders.

In a non-gun country do criminals use spoons and butter knives instead of AK47's, just like the defenseless tax paying, law abiding citizens?

Yeah, that's basically true.
Germany for example:
Murder: 12% with gun
Rape: less than 1% with gun
Robbery: 6% with gun

The time and effort it would take to procure any ammo (wood balls or OC pepper balls) which would likely only work with limited effect and only on relatively unmotivated subjects makes it kinda pointless to me. Paintball gun for defense against people=FAIL.

However I see it being useful to fend off nuisance animals though, especially the OC pepper paintballs.

Slingshots need experienced shooters, are better for outdoors.

Paintball markers are easier to target shoot at point- blank to 20 metre ranges.

Okay, I am not going to disagree COMPLETELY with you.  In the moment when one realized the door was being broken down, and THEY were coming in, you'd grab whatever you had.  If it was a speargun, I'd grab that.   I'd certainly grab a shovel, knowing the huge number of WW1 soldiers that were killed fighting in the trenches with shovels, after their guns jammed or they ran out of ammo.

If there was a decorative Japanese sword set on the wall, it's going to be practice time.

And if the first thing I could grab was a paintball gun with hard nylon balls, they bad guys are going to have to deal with that.

In defense of the paintball gun, we have the fact that it projects about the same power and rate of fire regardless of the physical strength, agility, and experience of the operator.  A small female or an 80 year old guy is about the same threat with a paintball gun as a 20 year old Special Forces soldier with a paintball gun.

That's not the case with the sword, speargun or shovel.

Next question is "stopping power."  That's really conjecture, but it could easily be tested - just like tasers and electric shock guns can and are tested.

It is a pity that these paintball marker max out at 16 - 20 Joules of muzzle energy.
Some paintball markers can achieve 25 - 30 Joules with special tuning or modification.

This argument would be better if paintball markers  could be modified to 50 joules - just shoot them in the ankle.

Clearly the answer is a slightly larger paintball gun that shoots baseballs.

A baseball bat?

I was thinking more like a souped up, pistol grip black rifle version of...

http://baseballtips.com/pitching-machines/heater-combo-xtender.html

That would be too bulky.

Does anyone have any opinions about the usefulness of consumer-available, hand-held lasers for self-defense?

The closest I can get to this is a HUGE HAND HELD RECHARGEABLE FLASHLIGHT TORCH  ???
Lasers are illegal for civilian use in many countries, so are tasers and pepperballs/pepperspray

I was thinking along the lines of something in the 3-5W range.

This all sort of reminds me of all the cautions against using a low caliber weapon such as a 22LR for defense.  Stories are many where a homeowner sunk a dozen of those little bullets into the bad guy, and he kept coming.  That's why a key phrase is "stopping power."

Unfortunately, that's also how come cops kill a lot of people.  They've got some optimized "stopping power."

Note that non lethal is not a priority.  Yes it should be with cops in appropriate circumstances.

As for the home invasion I am of the opinion non-lethal should not be a priority (or even an issue) for the invader.  Remember there may be more than one.

I'm more interested in blindness and flames.

Powerful lasers are bad under pretty much all circumstances. One stray reflection and you are instantly blind. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. People don't realize how dangerous a laser really is... it's not lethal, but it will blind instantly and from the most innocuous of circumstances. A shiny object that you don't even notice could be the source of your blindness. Reflection off a watch, a handle in the kitchen, bathroom mirror, car headlight... really anything.

You'd be far more of a danger to yourself with a 5W laser in a tense situation than you'd be to any attacker.

I would hand a loaded firearm to a toddler before I'd hand them a 5w laser if I had to choose.

would prefer a baseball bat or golf club, sadly in my country we cant have any weapons else i'd have a real gun for sure.

This is the real reason why I suggest paintball marker - it is a toy that can pack a punch if you add a few solid nylon balls to your ammo

Some country's laws are worded so that citizens are unable to use weapons for self defence, or the victim risks being charged with pre-meditated crime.
That is why I suggest paintball for "home defence" only.
In a public place, my self defence weapon must be something that turned up accidentally, such as: water-bottle, broom stick (this is very popular), shoe, fists, apple and any non-bladed object. Even a screw-driver at a crime scene is viewed as pre-meditated crime.

Of course this is how the famed Irish Blackthrone "walking stick" came into existence, and also certain innocent looking British umbrellas.

They take some practice and also attention to clear space in the vicinity of the scuffle.  It's not unreasonable to think that one guy could take on three, he having the stick and they being unarmed.  A stick is also defense against a knife, since it can keep you out of reach of the blade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV7tb1Y6fAg

In the USA where I live this sort of stuff is pretty much totally useless, since it's assumed the Bad Guy always has a gun, whether he's showing it or not.  Your scenario was "home invasion", somewhat different than a street mugging.  Almost all home invaders are burglars who do not want a fight, they just want some easy money from a quick theft.  Faced with fighting or running, they should run.  But then there are some crazy ones.

It's always worthwhile to actually read the law.   Here are two radically different examples.  One has to do with what is on your person when you are out walking or driving, the other has to do with possession.

Texas - § 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.

New York -  A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or (2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another

Obviously in Texas, all kinds of deadly things could be around your home, but in New York, they could not (within the letter of the law).

Even if it is not the best option, a paintball marker, tuned to fire at 25 - 30 Joules muzzle energy, is still a useful utility, especially with hard nylon balls.

What would the rate of fire be?

I personally don't think a paintball marker is the best solution.   Depending on local laws this could be considered firing a projectile.   So you could possibly still have some of the same legal trouble just as firing a gun.  

And depending on if you have young kids it could be a bad idea.  Paintball markers are not really the most safe thing to leave loaded as there is not really near as many safety devices to make it safe as a gun would have.   For example a handgun can go in a nice small safe.  Paintball marker with hopper, and co2 is just a pretty long item.

So will it work... chances are yes.  But would I ever want to count on it no... I just think especially if you use hard nylon balls it opens you up to some of the same laws as firearms depending on where you are.

As fast as you can pull the trigger. Some countries BAN full auto

I compared my thoughts earlier about why I personally would not legally choose a marker.  But below is more of a factual reason I would not shoot nylon balls.

Lets say you do use a market as home defense.  You have no idea what the other person is using.  I realize it is different for all countries some cannot have firearms near as easy.  But i would hate to shoot a nylon ball that would not make it through plastic when they could be using green tips that go through steel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dGxRw8Jq70

I'm sure the ammo is not legal everywhere.  But it is a lot of places in US.  If you enjoy firearms you will enjoy seeing what the green tip ammo can do.

I am talking about home defence to scare or incapacitate an intruder with blunt force - I am not talking about war or murder. USA is terrible!

I'm talking about home defense aswell.  I personally like USA but I will admit I am not fair opinion with living in it. I do like other counties aswell :) I am not closed minded.

But back to topic you can get a AR-15 pistol that is more compact then the paintball marker.  And can hold 30 of those green tips in it's magazine.

With a marker almost so much could be used to stop the projectile.  I don't care how hard the nylon it will bounce off walls, furniture, etc.  A bullet goes through these obstacles.   

Just my thoughts but I could be wrong.   

I didn't think about it but stargazer you have a great point.  Paintball marker is just as much pre-mediated. A paintball marker with special projectiles to make it hurt worse means you put in quite a bit of thought.  Also I know I stored my tanks long ago in a fridge.  Having tanks hooked up to marker and all set up shows again you planned it.

If you hurt someone with it, your just as liable for action no matter what item is used.

The thing is, paintball marker is regarded as a TOY, yet it can still serve some defence purposes.
I understand that people need lethal self defence.
I need to satisfy some demands of people who live in NON-GUN countries:
Your paintball marker is a TOY under normal circumstances, so it will not draw suspicion even if your house was searched by police, even though it becomes a NON-LETHAL weapon under home defence situations.

I do not plan to use paintball marker outside my home, this is why I call it "HOME DEFENCE".
A paintball marker in a public place for no good reason (other than going or coming from paintball game) is regarded as an offensive weapon in a public place.
Everything is deemed pre-meditated in some countries (I have warned you :D :D :D), because their laws are screwed. It just enables the courts to punish both victim and attacker.

Are antique guns considered firearms in your country?

Here anything made before 1892 is not considered a gun legally.

Are you in the UK? :D :D :D

No, USA.  Most states here have this interpretation here about the old stuff, virtually any of the replicas of cowboy guns are not "firearms."  That includes those which used brass shells with black powder.  Just curious.

One antique musket is worth fifty paintball guns, lol...

Where country do you live in?

I'm not sure it's regarded everywhere as a toy.  I know in US you have to be 18 to purchase a marker.   Some places are cautious on CO2 aswell and make it 18, but not all places seem to follow that.

OK, paintball marker is not a toy - it is even written on paintball markers that "this is not a toy" ;)
However, it is not looked upon as a lethal weapon, because it normally shoots water soluble paint filled projectiles that burst on impact.
They are used in games for people as young as 13.

Of course this suggestion is insidiously evil, but if you were using nitrous oxide propellant instead of CO2, and thin walled balls that burst on impact, they would be saturated with laughing gas and soon completely lose their thieving and robbing capabilities.

Must be something illegal about that.

With you looking so hard into markers as a option.  Can you say what country you are from?  I'm just curious on your laws.

I live in Europe, you can guess the country yourself.

Oh my god no. NEVER!! This is a good way to get killed. You point that at somone with a gun and it is going to be a fight to the death. Guess who is gona win?

it is not all about killing, but warding off unwanted presence, if they are not armed with a firearm

I wish I knew OP's county just so I could see laws that make this seem like a good option.  

I think you are exactly right, it seems like a way that makes a altercation have to happen.  Personally I think you would be better off handing over what they want then using paintball marker, when they might be carrying something much more powerful.  Even a knife if they charge at you would win.  It's been a long time since I played paintball but even with markers turned up they left a welt, maybe bleed is very high but do not have stopping power.

Also with a firearm you get the bonus of a very loud noise depending on gun and caliber or gauge.  Chances are a neighbor would hear you firing and call the police, as really I would choose the proper authorities instead of me getting in a battle.

How do you know if they are armed? If someone pointed a paintball gun at me in a dark room it would be all about killing. I carry a gun every day you will never see it, but if you pointed a gun at me it would be the last thing you see.

Amen. If you don't have a gun then hand over your wallet. None of us owns anything worth a life.

Paintball for home defense?

I'm sorry lol.

This is true.  Often in a fight there are moments where things "escalate."

First the street thugs approach, acting friendly.  Then they take up positions around you and start pushing you around.   Then if you respond by whacking them with a stick they all pull out their knives.  Then if you pull out a gun they pull out three guns(if they have them).

They never start out showing what they got.  Here in the USA this changes "robbery" into "armed robbery" with far longer sentences.

Fill the paintballs with skunk juice, set up a remote turret with laser guidance.

P.S. I love eau de skunk.

He would be better off with the paintballs loaded with tear gas, etc.  But I think we have concluded a marker is not proper home defense.  

I understand some countries are very very strict on their gun laws.  I personally love the US as a target shooter.  I was able to order in bulk 5.56 online much cheaper the my local stores and have it delivered to my door.  Local stores just don't compete compared to online bulk when on sale.  It does not get much better then that for target shooting.

I would still consider the paintball marker as a useful accessory during a less lethal situation - to get rid of unwanted gatherings around your house, one or 2 shots would do, if you can use cover of darkness to conceal identity.
I know of a man who got mugged to death by teenagers, just because he left his house unarmed to investigate the source of noise outside his house in the evening. The gang of yobs had no firearm, they were just drunk trouble makers.
Sometimes a warning shot from a distance is much better than face to face confrontation.
Not every country is as GUN CRAZY as the USA, there are places and situations where the marker would be effective.

Since we don't know your country we really cannot make comparisons. We get that you are very anti-gun, and anti-US. But it does not change the fact a marker even cranked up very high will chances are welt or make cause bleeding, but has very little stopping power.  You do not get to pick if a situation is lethal or not.  The "bad guy" is part of the equation so you would never know if its lethal force or what force will be used.

One example of someone killed is not a case study or even a large pool of data.  I still say pulling a paintball marker will escalate the situation.   No matter what you use.  Most companies have policies of turning money/product over to robbers as you do not want to escalate the situation, and it's not worth dying for.

With "one or 2 shots would do, if you can use cover of darkness to conceal identity."  It makes me question your age.   So you charge at someone at night in cover or darkness to fire with a marker?  Do you actively patrol your yard with your marker?  Fact is get a good flood light, chances of scaring them off with lighting up the area is much greater then your army of one with a marker.

There is something better then a gun or paintball marker.  That would be a alarm system.

Or a dog.

Or go buy one of these... I can guarantee this will work 99% of the time... though you'd probably have to clean up shit stains now and again as the bad guys shit themselves prior to or during their escape.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338869

Or if you're feeling really frisky, get a Baboon. Baboons will fuck you up like no other animal when they want to. Unleashing an angry baboon is a terrifying end of the goddamned world scenario for anyone nearby.

One times I was actually scared was when I had to stop my car on a little road to let a bunch of baboons cross somewhere way down in South Africa.  Maybe about a hundred.  And they were all looking at me.  And all those eyes were saying "Don't even move, buddy.  Don't even think about it..."

I wonder about loading the paintballs with chloroform, or UV dye with glitter like banks put in their dye packs.

Paintball guns can effectively disable a person just like any other non-lethal weapon as long as you have the right ammo.

Take a look at this video where a guy shoots glass balls and darts against ballistic gel. (https://youtu.be/aBcFSeUx6JQ?t=1m1s)  For bonus points put breaker balls and pepper spray ones in your hopper, they won't be fighting back any time soon.

A paintball marker will work to a certain extent but more than likely it is just going to enrage the would be raider more. Rubber balls might work but judging from your posts you live in a country in Europe where the criminal seams to have more rights than the individual

Go to fishing shop and buy a oil-air gun, it make a hole in head, shot about 25 meter and is 100% legal.

its illegal to kill someone, who will only your money with no exposing arms

In the uk you would be charged with some sort of assault and firearm charge if you tried using a paintball gun in home defense, The governments got to keep those criminals safe even more so than the victim it seems. literally you would be the one that ended up in jail and criminal would get a victim compensation payout.

Naw, man. You completely wrong.  Look, let's say that my hobby is hitting baseballs.  I don't care what you think, I have my baseball pitching machine set up in my living room.  Day after day, I practice hitting the balls back to the other wall.  Hey, look, it's just a rented house, what do I care. 

Now some bad guy breaks in, and there I am, standing there with my baseball bat.  What you think I'm going to do?  Some mean thing like hit him with my bat?  Hell no!   Some really life threatening thing like bat those balls at his head?  Of course not.  I'm going to run to the other side of the room, and take cover BEHIND THE PITCHING MACHINE.  Now if this bad guy is such a dumb ass that he comes running straight at me to do me some harm, and those balls are coming out of the machine (which I am hanging onto for dear life...OF COURSE I'M NOT AIMING IT, SILLY!)  and those balls are headed BY SHEER CHANCE right at his head, one after the next, well you know WHAT?


It just plain ain't his lucky day, dude.  It ain't his lucky day.

This is the point.

It doesn't matter that someone uses paintball for self defense. Government will come after you if you use a baseball bat for self defense. Government will come after you if you use a 2 by 4 for self defense. They will come after you if you use a fork and a dinner plate. They will come after you if you use your fists. The thing that they want is, FOR YOU TO BE DEFENSELESS.

Oh sure. They may go after the person who is assaulting you. But they will come after you too... for defending yourself. They want you defenseless.

For example. Let's say that I have 3 acres of land. And on this land I have 15 military tanks that I own, all of them armed and fueled for war. And ad to this all kinds of arms and ammo, bazookas, grenade launchers with their grenades, rocket launchers and rockets, ack-ack anti-aircraft artillery, and you-name-it, all armed and ready for use.

Let's also say that the land is well protected by razor wire fencing and perimeter security cameras that don't allow anybody in to steal any of it. On top of that, I am the sweetest, most innocent of all people who wouldn't hurt a flea.

If government found out about my stuff, they would be in there in a minute to not only steal it from me, but to charge me with something, as well. And if they couldn't get in, they would come with more and bigger artillery to break through my security.

The point is, the people who we call government, want to keep us defenseless, and if they can't do it, they will USE all their weapons on us to keep us defenseless. So, who are the dangerous people? It's the ones in government who use their weaponry for whatever they want. And more often than not, they use it against those of us who are defenseless.

Government is violent. We need to take their weapons away from them before they hurt us.

:)