Bitcoin Forum

This is a High Risk Loan with a face value of 1 BTC. Each bond will pay up to 0.03 BTC on every Wednesday.
The nature of the recipient of the loan will not be discussed.
This loan is not guaranteed and is provided on a best effort basis.
The issuer reserves the right to repurchase the bond at any time at a price equal to 1.05 times the 5 day average trading price on GLBSE.
Additional bonds may be issued at 1 BTC face value price.

Regarding to my operation at V.HRL: I will invest in high risk but high return securities to maintain the income above 3%. I am also planing to keep the NAV above 1.0 per bond. You will find it right below the OP accompanied with the dividend history.

Dividend history: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100800.msg1101208#msg1101208
Portfolio: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100800.msg1101210#msg1101210

I will try to keep the income above 3%. The first 8 weeks all the profit will be used for purchases to maintain a healthy NAV. I will diversify the portfolio in case any of the holding will fall , we should not fall with it. In this case the weekly dividend could drop below 3%. If it does I will keep 0.25%-0.5% depends on the situation. In the other hand, if it performs well I will use part of my profit for extra purchases for the sake of security. Mostly it will happen at early stages.

My consideration to investment opportunities in more details: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100800.msg1144276#msg1144276


Update!

500 bond issued.
https://glbse.com/asset/view/V.HRL

DIVIDEND HISTORY

Date               Outstanding Bond          Dividend/bond             NAV/bond

2012-08-29                      45                                    0.03                                0.979
2012-09-05                    163                                    0.03                                0.995
2012-09-12                    277                                    0.024                              0.966
2012-09-19                    277                                    0.01                                0.902
2012-09-26                    277                                    0.004                              0.734
2012-10-03                    277                                    0.002                              0.441

Outstanding Bonds:277    Last updated:2012-09-26

Asset         Quantity       5Day Avg        NAV       Percentage      Dividend/Share      Weekly Dividend

OBSI.HRPT       900           0.02          18.0        14.76%         0.00000             0.00
FPGAMINING       86           0.428         36.80       30.18%         0.004               0.344
BDT               1           0.0            0.0         0.00%         0.00                0.00
FDBF             73           0.149         10.877       8.91%         0.00153             0.112
NYAN.B           51           0.387         19.737      16.18%         0.02                1.02
JTME             10           0.675          6.75        5.53%         0.00918             0.0918
NYAN.C           51           0.14           7.14        5.85%         0.0009              0.20459
KRAKEN           40           0.008          0.32        0.26%         0.000042            0.00168
TEEK.B           11           0.396          4.356       3.57%         0.005               0.055
NYAN              1           0.647          0.647       0.53%         0.00395             0.00395
HYDRO.BONDS      11           1.392         15.31       12.55%         0.0246              0.27
SS               70           0.013          0.91        0.74%         0.000135            0.00218
BITNODES          4           0.271          1.084       0.89%         0.00259             0.01038 
                                 Total NAV:121.941                              Total PID*:1.957

NAV/Bond:    0.441
PID*/Share:  0.007
POD**/Share: 0.002

*Projected Incoming Dividend
** Projected Outgoing Dividend



    

I think you need more reputation before people will loan you money. Especially if you dont supply ID.

I agree with you. This won't be my first bussiness as a newcomer and I learned that the first steps always the hardest to make. Without those first steps I ain't get nowhere. I hope there will be some people who willing to take the risk whit a couple of coins just to try it out, so my reputation can build up slowly. Let see. Only time will tell.

How about instead of trying to get a loan on GLBSE you try to just ask for a loan in the lending section of the forum?

Why should I try knowing nothing at all, when I can have better? If I absolutely feel like throwing money at a black spot on the GLBSE, I have TEEK or OBSI offering more or less the same; and at least they have some reputation.
How about starting building trust with some fund we actually have some reason to trust?

You should not! This will be one security out of many, so everyone has a choice. I know it will take some time till the community will accept my presence but I am not in a hurry. The first lender will show up after some time and then my reputattion will build up slowly. I do not know how the others started their career on glbse but I guess not all of them came with good reputation by default. It is hard to get trusted but one must start somewhere.
I came to know bitcoin not so long ago and found it very promissing. I am planing to set up a mining company also, and ordered some BFL SC. I do not want to invest in FPGA when ASIC time is so soon. The mining company may be easier to trust for those who would like to avoid high risk, but that is a couple of month away yet.
Sorry for my poor English but it isn't my first language. I always get told off because of it.  :) ;)

I'm not quite sure what you bring to the table, given that there are securities that are insured and offer a better return.

May be you are right and people will have no interest on this bond. I would like to give some time for this project before I consider it dead. It is not even born yet. I will call it a success if few hundred bonds are sold. That would give me some room to develop my bussiness. So let me have a few month to see how things will work out. If I cant sell that much then I will have to figure out a better strategy to  encourage lenders to invest in me.

What sort of business would that be? Do you have any experience starting a business?

This issue raises every single red flag I can think of: Unknown issuer, no rep, new to forum, no backing, no details about business, strangely high expected rate of return, strangely high asking amount.

I would not be suprised to see you sell a couple bonds, there are people here who throw money at everything to see what sticks, but I would be suprised if you sell even 10 btc worth.

I ran into the same problem when I said I was going to release my business. I had to show my I.D. and do other things for other users to prove my identity, They want to see your not going to run off with there bitcoins. You need to make some sort of effort to gain trust on here or you will have a hell of a hard time. Post some pictures of you with your I.D. and todays paper or somthing

I'd say a good first step would be to at least disclose something about what you're intending to use the btc for. At the very, very least you should present some very, very good reasons for keeping this a secret. I have trouble understanding all this need for secrecy that some of the GLBSE issuers have.

And of course, you should answer the mandatory question: Will any of the funds received be lent to pirate or invested in a pass-through (and if so, then how much)?

I tell you as it is right now. I have a portfolio on GLBSE which incudes 20 percent pirate related security from various issuers. Most of the paper I invest has a higher return then 3% weekly so it is considered high risk. Some examples: FPGAMINING, OBSI:HRPT, BDT, TEEK:B, JTME, UDN ect... Also some of them do not disclose what they are into just paying the dividents regulary. I am doing it since few months and everythig is working out nicely so far. My investment is High Risk because I am dealing with high risk securities, the GLBSE could be hacked or I could hacked even if I try to make sure it wont happen to me.
I hope that will give you some ideas. But you must take that into account that my security will not be insured when you willing to put some money to it. Those who can accept it will invest, those who not wont. It is always your decision.

Edit: pirate is off the basket now.

Thanks for your kind advice usagi. You know how to deal with newcomers, I guess. I do not have to feel guilty just because I am new here and trying to launch a security.  :)

It is not because you are new. If the oldest person here listed those details we would rip them too.

I managed to contact GLBSE support and the IPO is up now although a bit late. Wednesday the 22nd I will start to issue the bond.

Glad to see you got it all straight, and good luck!

Thank you :)  ;)

I will start to issue bonds on the 22nd of August.
Pre release sales  @0.97 per share!
Private Message me if interested.

OMFG! Really! Another "Lend me some money to gamble with and if I make a profit, I'll split it with you. And if I don't pay you back, you'll have to take my word that I lost it gambling and didn't just decide to keep it."

How stupid do you think people are?!

All that is claimed is:

1) He will try to pay people back.

2) He will not pay back more than .03 BTC per week.

That's it! That's all he's saying.

Well, there are several securities on GLBSE offering High Risk, High Return and No Guarantee. You are right in a sense V.HRL will be one of those.
I am planing to offer later on an insured, fixed income, low risk loan also and shares in a mining operation. CPA offered me insurance opportunities and 2 BFL SC ordered, but we will talk about that later.

It wasn’t the best idea to start with a high risk loan I can see the point, but as I said I am not in a hurry.

Tomorrow launch date!

Seriously, if this IPO takes off I am going to announce "Puffn's High Risk Loan: If you get your money back, I did my job wrong." Too bad I am already verified.

I found those who already run a security on GLBSE like to complaining about that other people planing to go their own. Competition is good, try to accept it.

Love the terms stipulated... so clear and honest. How can the savvy investor go wrong?


http://allthehumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/nothing-to-see-here3.jpg

I contacted GLBSE support about the verification process. I going to verify I hope it will ease some concerns. Apart from that this security still a high risk loan, so bear in mind when investing. The securities which I am planing to issue in the near future will not be so risky. I don’t think there is business without risk by the way. Some involves high risk some much lower, but if one looking for risk free investment gotta do it in another dimension. 

Security launched.

Verification details sent to GLBSE support regarding to my email address, my home address and photo I.D.

45 shares sold. Puffn wher's your fund, I'm eager to mortage my house to invest in it  :D

I am still trying to figure out how to fake the financials so I can scam you guys not OBSI. I am in IRC with pirate and Ken Lay and we are working out a plan.

Puffn I really do not want to go into arguments but shouldn’t you just take care of your own business. 

YABIF after the IPO was able to pay the daily dividend for 4 days and since nothing. But you keep throwing scam at other peoples security. For example there is a nice post at OBSI.ABNO telling how scam that is. I understand your concerns, that not everyone up to the standard what you declare. But look at yourself first then judge the others. You were able to run a business for 4 days and now you stall because pirate defaulted. I expect much more than that from myself.

In the offline world I am running successfully a decorating and cleaning service since 2005. I  have hundreds of happy clients. I am here for good even if I have only 40 posts in this forum, I did not came to this world yesterday.

Please do not explain your situation about your security and why you were not able to pay dividends for YABIF. People can find you there. I advise you to go there and try to take care of your own investors and do not try to scare off people from other possibilities.

If you were so wise and you think you know which asset is secure to own why did not used your wisdom when you invested more into pirate then it was safe. No you can not pay dividend because the money flow stopped from pirate. I understand you need to regenerate, but please try to concentrate on that, and do your best to keep your clients happy and yourself happy at the same time.

I am willing to accept constructive criticism, because I am willing to learn. Please let me know when you sorted the situation with YABIF and the promised dividends running again regularly.  Then I will welcome you on this thread. But until then, do not waste your time trolling around. It wont make you able to pay dividends. Just do all the hard work what necessary to get your own situation sorted. 

Clearly, Francesco was kidding, and I replied in the spirit that that was written in.

YABIF has not paid out because my accounting is mark to market value, and not mark to book value. Asset values on low risk opportunities have been declining. I have been thinking of paying the dividend anyway, and just have the asset value decline, but have not made a decision on that yet.

You went on, but I lost interest. In the future, never try to troll a suspected troll. Think of me as the batman, and you are just two faced or a joker.

Can you provide evidence of this? Or will your investors just have to trust you when you tell them that their investments have dropped in value?

All of the prices of the securities that I am invested in can be found at the following link.

https://glbse.com/assets

Honestly though, the drag on my portfolio has been Gigamining.

Look, my only point is that this is the same stuff over and over again. This guy is offering inflated interest rates, no verification. This exact cycle is unfolding right now with pirate. People are only going to fall into this time after time unless we make it harder for them to do this sort of scheme. I consider this sort of harassment a form of free-market regulation. With higher risk, there needs to be higher transparency not just higher interest. Now, does this mean that people shouldn't be able to give him their money, no, they should be free to do so. If he does turn out to be legitimate, and he pays back the whole loan one day and does not ask for another as some do with confidence loans as pointed out by Kluge, then I will apologize to him.

Now, I am going to minimize my comments from now on to stop giving him free bumps.

On a side note:

I sent all verification details to glbse, now waiting for them to reply.

Not every security on glbse raises literally every red flag when it comes to investment.

Yours belongs not in the investment section it belongs in gambling.

Don't want to be negative dude, but your investment has triggered lots of people to question it. Maybe you should try to release a little info or something to lessen the beating your getting. Your release is at a horrible time as well.....

Dividend paid.

You are right. I will come up with more and more information to give the investors a better understanding on what am I doing. First of all I sent the verification details to GLBSE support, no reply yet.

Regarding my operation at V.HRL: I will invest in high risk but high return securities to maintain the income above 3%. Also I planing to keep NAV above 1.0 per bond. You will find it right below the OP accompanied with the dividend history.

After some investigation I am planing to invest in the following securities at the first round:

OBSI.HRPT: This is a must have for now since this is the only one on the market which hits 7% some weeks. I now it is very risky but as I said risk is involved.

BDT: 3% weekly. The issuer surrounded with uncertain stories so I will wait a little before I make any large purchases.

TEEK.B: 3% also but exposed to pirate. The issuer stated less then half of their holdings are in pirate.

NYAN.C: Very much exposed to pirate but the issuer very accurate about their books. (good example for me in this regard)

NYAN.B 2% weekly.  Partly exposed to pirate. If it will maintain the 2% it could serve as a baseline for my security.

FPGAMINING: Well paying mining company with a dividend history above 3%. Not much info coming from their side.

JTME: Another small mining company with good return.

MOVETO.FUND: Valuable grow fund with well improving NAV. It does not pay dividend but increase in value. Some of their holdings are exposed to pirate though not directly but through a "guaranteed" loan. It could be part of the portfolio to keep the NAV high.

I will wait a little before I Invest into pirate related securities. Let see what left of them after pirate is gone. I am not planing to invest into mining companies with fixed hash rate per share. Those can hurt most the NAV in my experience. The mining companies above will increase their hash rate for investors as difficulty rise. If you know any other well paying mining company with improving hash rate please let me know ;)

I will try to keep the income above 3%. Some of the profit will be used for purchases to maintain a healthy NAV if necessary. I will diversify the portfolio in case any of the holding will fall , we should not fall with it. In this case the weekly dividend could drop below 3%. If it does I will keep 0.25%-0.5% depends on the situation. In the other hand, if it performs well I will use part of my profit for extra purchases for the sake of security. Mostly it will happen at early stages.
 
I done a lot of investigation but I did not get to the bottom of it yet. I have to tell you that the early days are riskier because the diversification process will require some time. Also I try to avoid those who exposed to pirate to much so it gives me fewer choice ergo less diversification.

I hope I answered some of your questions, certainly not all of them. Thank you for your helpful criticism. It helps me understand what investors need so I can serve them better.

I updated the posts below the OP the give you more details about this bond.

You will be able to follow the dividend history and the portfolio updated at least weekly. All the profit from the initial 8 weeks will be reinvested to provide a healthy NAV to rely on.

Well now we have something  :)
Could you also specify exposure to particularly risky assets, such as OBSI.HRPT?

Also I'd advise against JTME, dividends will likely fall below 1% next week as owner starts collecting diviends on his shares.

I will keep you updated here about which asset takes up what part of the holdings: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100800.msg1101210#msg1101210

I knew JTME will drop  the value of dividends. For the next 4 weeks it will be about 1.2% at my estimation and then falls below 1%. I do not want it to be a mayor part of the portfolio, but I bought some because I like the idea not being perpetual.

Regarding to OBSI.HRPT. At the beginning I will maintain an approximate 50% or even above, just to get the NAV/bond ratio high. I  am aiming at 1.05 by the time the first 8 week reinvesting period is over. If I manage to keep it higher I will. It will give an overall security for this bond in the long term, but increasing the risk in short term.

If no critical event occurring in my holdings, let say none of them will default, I will keep pumping some of my profit into reinvestment. My idea is to keep the value of the bond high so it is more secure to the investors and easier to me pay the 0.03 per bond and keep a nice profit. I know it takes time, I am prepared for that.

Wow, 50% in one of the riskiest assets available on GLBSE, which many are claiming must be a ponzi or scam? It is almost to the level that this is a pass-through to OBSI, which is silly since anybody could just buy OBSI if they want to take that risk. I would suggest diversifying more, even if it does mean a lower return.

I will take your suggestion as a good advise and will drop down the percentage to 40 in the very near future. In this case I have to lower my aim to have a 1.05 NAV at the end of 8 weeks to between 1.03 - 1.04.

Until the initial 500 bond not sold it will be difficult to grow the NAV because with new money coming in I have a pressure on me to buy assets to pay 0.03 for each bond. After 500 is sold then the NAV could grow slowly. With less OBSI in the portfolio the grow rate will be slower but V.HRL will be more secure so I accept your point. I am planing to drop Obsi below 40 percent in the long run, but getting down to 40 will enjoy priority now.

40% is still huge.  You are essentially freerolling OBSI.HRPT with your investors' money.  What value do you add?  It appears to me that your only role is to take a share of the potential gains but expose investors to the entire risk of losses.

Someone has to do it.

At 40 percent if OBSI become worthless overnight, I still be able to pay out 1% weekly. Now we are at 40% but I planing to drop it even further down.

Dividend paid.

If anyone invests with you after seeing you write this, they are dumber than a box of rocks. If you take a loss of 40% of value, you can't continue to pay out dividends. You would have to distribute the losses to your investors. In order to pay out dividends, you have to have assets that exceed the value of your investment. Otherwise, you are a Ponzi scheme, your principal will dwindle as you continue to make dividend payments, and you will collapse.

I guess the question here is wether you are paying out all the earnings currently, or if you are only paying out a portion and saving the rest to grow?

If you have a look at the portfolio below the OP you can see that the weekly incoming dividend is 7.2 btc. 4.5 out of it from Obsi. If it goes to zero the remaining will be 2.7. Divide it with the number of outstanding bonds and you will get. 0.016 btc per bond weekly. If 0.01 goes into dividends 0.006 left to get the NAV growing slowly.  

This calculation does not takes into account my fee which I will not take the first eight weeks anyway.

You also lose your principal, destroying your NAV and resulting in a huge loss to investors.  It's not all about dividends.

Honestly, you just fundamentally don't "get it". If I have a mortgage on my house, and my house burns down, do you think the bank will still let me take out a second mortgage? I mean, I can still make the payments, right?

I wonder if this is the first bitcoin ponzi where the operator apparently doesnt even understand its a ponzi?

The NAV would go to 0.6 which would be a big loss that's right. That's why is called High Risk. But I am not agree at all it is a ponzi. It would be if I would use the money from investors to pay out dividend. But every single coin went to GLBSE assets and I paying the dividends from the income coming from them. I can not deny OBSI is ponzi, it might be. But my operation based on it at 40% and continuously decreasing.

The parallel with the mortgage is very misleading. A single house is not generating income V.HRL does. If a house burns down it become useless but if V.HRL loose 40% of its value it still valued at 0.6 so the investment did not go to zero, and still able to pay dividend  at 0.01 BTC per bond. The current value of  bonds paying 0.01 weekly are close to 1 BTC on GLBSE even if people does not now anything about their backings.  

It is more like if you have mortgage on 10 house and 4 burns down you would be able to pay the dividends on the remaining 6. It is sad that those houses were burnt down where the best tenants used to live. But the rest of the tenants are paying well too average 1.6 percent of the value of your newly built properties.

In real life for a house which worth 100.000 dollar you cant get 1600 rent weekly.  But for properties on GLBSE you can. That's a big difference. Although at a cost of high risk.

So the question is when OBSI will default. If it does right after you bought this bond then it is bad but you "only" lost 40 percent of your invested money so you still better off then if you would put it straight to OBSI. And you got the 0.01 afterwards weekly.   But if it will does after two months, when it will be less then 30% in my portfolio, your loss is significantly less. Nearly zero, because you took 0.27 BTC per bond as dividend by then.
That is the risk what involved here.

If I have a strong demand from investors to drop OBSI in short amount of time, let say within couple of weeks to 20 percent I will do that. What comes with it I will have to drop the weekly dividend to 2 percent. If investors prefer less risk with less income I am okey to go that direction. I am willing to drop down it to 20 percent anyway but in few month not in few weeks. If it happens that way there would be no reason to lower the dividend.

Quick update.

OBSI is 35% now. I try to update the portfolio soon for you to have a careful look. I am accepting further criticism.

Portfolio updated:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100800.msg1101210#msg1101210

I have done a quick calculation. The NAV/bond ratio is 0.964 now, based on 5 day average.  It lost value mostly because the NYAN.C and TEEK.B price drop. I would like to get it back to 1.0

Total outstanding bond: 261
Total NAV: 251

So 10 BTC missing.

Projected weekly incoming dividend is 9.44 BTC. If I want the NAV to be 1.0 within 2 weeks I am only able to pay out 4.44 BTC as dividend which makes 0.017 BTC per share for 2 weeks.

I really would like to do that, because In my opinion it is better to have a bond which keeps it's value although from time to time pays less then the maximum of 3% weekly. Than have a bond which pays 3% but keep loosing it's value.

As at the first 8 weeks I will not take any fees so I don't need to involve it in this calculation.

Please let me know what do you suggest.

when did a loan become an investment fund. In my mind, you should pay out 3% until you pay the money back regardless of circumstances.

I think he adequately disclosed that this is "sort of" a loan and "sort of" an investment fund.

"This is a High Risk Loan with a face value of 1 BTC. Each bond will pay up to 0.03 BTC on every Wednesday.
The nature of the recipient of the loan will not be discussed.
This loan is not guaranteed and is provided on a best effort basis."

Having the value of the bond track the actual value of the assets is the responsible thing to do. That prevents investors from thinking everything is fine until there's a sudden, complete default. The reduced payout is a signal to you of the actual condition of the investment that allows you to decide whether it still makes sense for you to invest in it.

If everyone insists that every investment vehicle pay out unrealistic returns, all that will be left are the worst of the scams.

+1 Great perspective on this. Also, keeping the asset backing at the valuation allows for higher returns in the long run (instead of letting little losses slowly add up and whittle away at the worth of the share).

If you're not expecting returns to be too poor, you may be able to space it out over more than two weeks. While that's the fastest it can be done reasonably, it can be done over say five weeks to still keep immediate returns high.

I may rename it as I use the loan to invest into various high risk glbse instruments. High Risk Leverage sounds better?

I did look it up in the dictionary:

"Definition of 'Leverage'
1. The use of various financial instruments or borrowed capital, such as margin, to increase the potential return of an investment."


I found out that if I will not discuss the nature of my investment then I will not earn trust at all and also I will be missing some very important feedback so I am not up to the contract in this case, but it was a clear demand from the members of the forum. 

The NAV is 0.962 now from 0.964 in about 4 hours. That is because the 5 days average does not follow the market in the instant. The main reason for this drop is NYAN.C which takes up about 10% of the portfolio.

I will need to allocate more money for reinvesting purposes if I want to make sure the value of V.HRL will  be maintained at or above 1.0. Since I reduced my holding of OBSI from the initial 50% to 34% there is less left to reinvest and pay high dividends. I am planing to reduce it even further for the sake of security.

I decided to pay 2.4% dividend at least until the NAV regenerated.  Assuming no large drop in assets value  and incoming dividends, it can be back at 1.0 in about five weeks. I still allow  some devaluation due to the 5 days average that’s why I will not pay 2.8%. An other reason for it is my aim to reduce OBSI to a level when it will go from one day to another, will not cause serious damage to V.HRL.

Thanks for you both for your useful feedback.

Dividend paid.

Market analysis and further strategy.

As I see now the market is very depressed. Nearly all of my holdings lost value in the last couple of weeks so the NAV now stands at 0.91. But the main reason for the recent drop is the uncertainty around OBSI so the five day average price gone from 0.102 to 0.093 in days. I decided apply a more aggressive reinvesting strategy in the next few weeks to stabilize the value of V.HRL

The general prices are low and going south although the incoming dividends not affected as much so there is money coming in to get the NAV back to 1.0 again. There is 277 outstanding bonds and the total value of holding is 252. Now 25 btc needed.

Incoming weekly dividend: 9.9
At 1% rate total dividend to pay out: 2.77
Money for reinvestment each week: 7.13

It will take about 4 weeks to regenerate.
I do not think there is a imminent risk of  OBSI default as he stated he will not issue new bonds till the market calms down. But I do not want to get more OBSI then the 900 which is already in the portfolio under any circumstances.

For further stabilisation of the asset I will extend the period not taking fee from 8 weeks to 10 weeks.

Dividend paid.

Meanwhile your 900 obsi.hrpt bonds have dropped from 0.1 to 0.003 and are paying out zero in dividend so your "4 weeks to regenerate" have just turned in to about 4 centuries.   Even assuming you ever owned those bonds and werent running your own ponzi. 

Now fortunately for V.HRL bond holders, there is still some hope; usagi is invested in this. In fact he owns over half the V.HRL bonds, and judging by other assets, at least for some time,  he will  gladly buy your (soon to be worthless) bonds if the price drops, to keep up the nav in his books. He is still valuing V.HRL at 1 BTC per bond in his books, I suggest other bond holders jump on the opportunity.

Strategy is simple: sell one or two bonds in to the nonexisting bid wall so GLSBE price collapses, then put the rest as asks just below current lowest asks and let usagi pick them up as he tries to restore the price. You will make a loss of course, but at worst you could recover ~50% which is not nearly as bad as when holding on to these. That loss will be carried by Usagi, or more precisely, Nyan.C bond holders.

Now I am really starting to wonder if you guys have a life besides getting in Usagis's way...
(why should be Vendor and his shareholders any better than Usagi and his?)

Well, I'll be watching the number of V.HRL in NYAN very closely now. I have seen incredible things happen, it might well be he'll do as you suggest; even though he should for sure see this post if he even does a minimum diligence before taking decisions.

Im not saying that (if you meant to ask why they should be better off); If  usagi uses common sense and acts in the interest of his bond holders, he will try to get out  of this ponzi for the best price he possibly can, however little that is likely to be.  Im advising anyone else to do the same.

But if instead usagi continues to act against the interest of his bond holders, and continues trying to cook his books by buying a few more shares of low volume worthless rubbish he already owns, to manipulate the price and his accounting, then V.HRL bondholders could make use of that. Its kind of a logical consequence if someone is trying to push up an already overvalued price, someone else can benefit from it by selling to him.


He might not do it for Nyan.C, or he might not do it because I predicted it now, we shall see. But he has done it several times, due diligence has nothing to do with it; its all about keeping up appearances. For less than 1 BTC he can often buy 100 BTC worth of fake book value, at least for a while. E.g., he bought AMB at 0.45 BTC, valuing their 1 BFL single at 450BTC.  That makes no sense, until  you realize it cost him only 0.45 BTC and let him put almost 100 BTC extra in his BMF NAV list, and much of that ended up in Nyan as well, and probably CPA too.

edit: I just notice he marked down his "real value" of V.HRL from 1 to 0.5 BTC, so you might be out of luck. Although Id take 0.5 BTC for V.HRL if I could get it. YMMV.

I wish all these ponzi schemes would die in a fire. I hope they all get delisted.

This asset should have not passed the smell test imo.

The sad thing is, real companies shares or bonds can never really materialize on GLBSE or other exchanges until these ponzi scams are removed.  When comparing between a return of 10% a year or one that gives 10% in one month, the temptation of greed is too much.  Then when the security collapses and the person learned their lesson, they don't have any money to invest in a realistic security.

Yeah -  totally agree.

It is also the reason lending bitcoins is a bad idea.

But good investors should be able to see through this. When offered one share with 30% return per month, or another at 10% return per year, the good investor should realize there is a difference in the risk of the two offerings. Not everybody is stupid enough to dump all their money into the highest risk place. Those people who go into the less risky ventures will continue investing, because they have not lost their principal like those who jumped at the shiniest scam.

I agree, but it is disheartening.  OBSI.HRPT just sucked ~4000 bitcoins out of the investing market.  That is 4000 bitcoins that won't flow to legitimate businesses.

True. Perhaps the percentage of good investors is very low around here.

The problem is all these schemes need to cash out and it depresses the value of all stocks so that 10% per year just turned into a 20% loss because of the rush to the exit. Then people sell down your fund because your NAV dropped when all the ponzis collapsed, so even low risk funds lost money.

Its  a viscious circle that affects everything. Even the mining stocks have been sold down and they are about as conservative as bitcoin investment gets.

MPEX has no ponzi's. Loan me your coins, I will invest them the there for you  ;)

Thats not entirely true http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=B.MPCD.A (http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=B.MPCD.A)

The problem with that argument is that not all scammers offer 30% per month (just using your figures for simplicity).  A smarter scammer can offer the 10% per year - knowing that not only will he have to pay out less as the scam proceeds, but also there's a category of investor he can target that the 30%/month one can't.

B.MPCD.A can only lose money if NYAN.A blows up (probable), Patrick Harnett blows up (possible), and MPOE loses approximately 3000+ BTC in any given month during the course of the CDO.

But yes the first two components are ponzi-like and I would not want to be sitting in the junior tranches of this CDO.

Not seeing how that's a ponzi.  A bad (or failed) investment maybe, but not a ponzi.

If you think B.MPCD.A is a bad investment please sell me your shares under market.

Madoff was only paying 5% a year. The only reason a bitcoin ponzi hasnt been  run at those rates is because there are other ones at 1-2-3% a week  :P

If you think MPEX has some special ponzi-off spray youre kidding yourself. They can happen even in highly regulated markets so to say glbse is something special in this regard is facetious.

It's not a ponzi-off spray, it's just minimal vetting of listed securities.  In contrast GLBSE actively recruits ponzi and ponzi-like funds, perhaps because the listing, buying and panic selling of these securities generates a large amount of revenue for the exchange.

Well actually, MPOE showed ~10k BTC cover of which this bond has 500 BTC. A 3k trade loss would mean roughly 150 BTC loss of the bond's capital.

Bingo. Couldnt have said it better myself.

Right, and 350BTC are in the super senior tranche. Hence, all three things need to occur to incur a loss.

Speaking of Nyan.a - where's the .99 bid-wall that's supposed to be maintained in a reasonably timely fashion? Pretty sure it hasn't been up for over a day - and there's 120 sahres from satisfied customers waiting to use it.

And while you're at it - maybe buy out some more of those Yarr shares who were due their payout a month or so back (yeah, I know you stalled them by saying you were going to offer 10 insured obsi shares instead - but you gave that idea up a while back yet still havent bought out the last ones or even kept up your bid-wall that you'd promised for those who didn't want to wait).

It's nice you use "facetious" there. Other instances of such facetiousness:

"If you think Western medicine has some special health spray you're kidding yourself. Disease can happen even in highly developed countries, so to say Chad is something special in this regard is facetious."

"If you think gated communities have some special violence-off spray you're kidding yourself. Violent crimes can happen even in the police station, so to say the poor parts of Detroit are something special in this regard is facetious."

Keep on keeping on, it's kinda funny to watch.

I was imagining some asset that was not invested in everything else, like a company which actually does something to generate revenue, call it RGV (revenue generating venture). For RGV, the price of all the other assets does not matter. If a fund manager is liquidating and sells off RGV the price will drop temporarily. If you have done your research, such a time would be a good opportunity to increase your investment in RGV. The price of the RGV will go back up to where it was once the fund finishes liquidating. You only take that loss as the fund sells out if you also sell at the low point.

I have to admit that V.HRL is in a very bad shape and IF no further losses will occur it will need 4 years get back the NAV to 1.0

I was trading on GLBSE for  few month when I decided to start on my own. Things was looking all right but right after I spent the money I got from investors everything gone south immediately. Nearly every security collapsed. Bad times.

I want to explain why there are not so many angry investors on this topic.

277 V.HRL sold

I bought 37 myself.
I sold 40 to 3 different person who I know for long time  and to whom I introduced bitcoin as a good opportunity to keep some of their savings. They took my advise and it turned out to be good so far. Then I told them if they buy some V.HRL for the fraction of their savings it might be profitable. They are all right. I talked to them and it did not hit them hard compare to the gain thanks to bitcoin itself.

And finally 160 is at NYAN.B 

The point is that there are not so many V.HRL out there so no angry investors.

I will try to keep the asset running at lower NAV but will not sell any new asset below 1.0
I will not take any fee until the NAV gets back to at least 0.8 even if it takes a very long time.

Why do you say it will take 4 years? Some of the most recent downward movement is from a few people cashing out to get out of GLBSE completely due to the Goat/Nefario kerfufle. Since they are selling off so quick, some of those prices will rebound back up. I would think that as a professional GLBSE stock trader, you should be able to scoop up many of these assets for a large discount and make a decent profit during this downward dip?

Because he blew all the IPO funds on OBSI.HRPT of course.

Right under OP you can find the dividend history with the NAV updated based on 5 day average price.