[GLBSE] V.HRL Vendor's High Risk Loan up to 3% interest weekly

[vendor]

I updated the posts below the OP the give you more details about this bond.

You will be able to follow the dividend history and the portfolio updated at least weekly. All the profit from the initial 8 weeks will be reinvested to provide a healthy NAV to rely on.

[Francesco]

Don't want to be negative dude, but your investment has triggered lots of people to question it. Maybe you should try to release a little info or something to lessen the beating your getting. Your release is at a horrible time as well.....

You are right. I will come up with more and more information to give the investors a better understanding on what am I doing. First of all I sent the verification details to GLBSE support, no reply yet.

Regarding my operation at V.HRL: I will invest in high risk but high return securities to maintain the income above 3%. Also I planing to keep NAV above 1.0 per bond. You will find it right below the OP accompanied with the dividend history.

After some investigation I am planing to invest in the following securities at the first round:

OBSI.HRPT: This is a must have for now since this is the only one on the market which hits 7% some weeks. I now it is very risky but as I said risk is involved.

BDT: 3% weekly. The issuer surrounded with uncertain stories so I will wait a little before I make any large purchases.

TEEK.B: 3% also but exposed to pirate. The issuer stated less then half of their holdings are in pirate.

NYAN.C: Very much exposed to pirate but the issuer very accurate about their books. (good example for me in this regard)

NYAN.B 2% weekly.  Partly exposed to pirate. If it will maintain the 2% it could serve as a baseline for my security.

FPGAMINING: Well paying mining company with a dividend history above 3%. Not much info coming from their side.

JTME: Another small mining company with good return.

MOVETO.FUND: Valuable grow fund with well improving NAV. It does not pay dividend but increase in value. Some of their holdings are exposed to pirate though not directly but through a "guaranteed" loan. It could be part of the portfolio to keep the NAV high.

I will wait a little before I Invest into pirate related securities. Let see what left of them after pirate is gone. I am not planing to invest into mining companies with fixed hash rate per share. Those can hurt most the NAV in my experience. The mining companies above will increase their hash rate for investors as difficulty rise. If you know any other well paying mining company with improving hash rate please let me know

I will try to keep the income above 3%. Some of the profit will be used for purchases to maintain a healthy NAV if necessary. I will diversify the portfolio in case any of the holding will fall , we should not fall with it. In this case the weekly dividend could drop below 3%. If it does I will keep 0.25%-0.5% depends on the situation. In the other hand, if it performs well I will use part of my profit for extra purchases for the sake of security. Mostly it will happen at early stages.
 
I done a lot of investigation but I did not get to the bottom of it yet. I have to tell you that the early days are riskier because the diversification process will require some time. Also I try to avoid those who exposed to pirate to much so it gives me fewer choice ergo less diversification.

I hope I answered some of your questions, certainly not all of them. Thank you for your helpful criticism. It helps me understand what investors need so I can serve them better.

Well now we have something 
Could you also specify exposure to particularly risky assets, such as OBSI.HRPT?

Also I'd advise against JTME, dividends will likely fall below 1% next week as owner starts collecting diviends on his shares.

[vendor]

Well now we have something 
Could you also specify exposure to particularly risky assets, such as OBSI.HRPT?

Also I'd advise against JTME, dividends will likely fall below 1% next week as owner starts collecting diviends on his shares.

I will keep you updated here about which asset takes up what part of the holdings: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100800.msg1101210#msg1101210

I knew JTME will drop  the value of dividends. For the next 4 weeks it will be about 1.2% at my estimation and then falls below 1%. I do not want it to be a mayor part of the portfolio, but I bought some because I like the idea not being perpetual.

Regarding to OBSI.HRPT. At the beginning I will maintain an approximate 50% or even above, just to get the NAV/bond ratio high. I  am aiming at 1.05 by the time the first 8 week reinvesting period is over. If I manage to keep it higher I will. It will give an overall security for this bond in the long term, but increasing the risk in short term.

If no critical event occurring in my holdings, let say none of them will default, I will keep pumping some of my profit into reinvestment. My idea is to keep the value of the bond high so it is more secure to the investors and easier to me pay the 0.03 per bond and keep a nice profit. I know it takes time, I am prepared for that.

[bitcoinbear]

Regarding to OBSI.HRPT. At the beginning I will maintain an approximate 50% or even above, just to get the NAV/bond ratio high. I  am aiming at 1.05 by the time the first 8 week reinvesting period is over. If I manage to keep it higher I will. It will give an overall security for this bond in the long term, but increasing the risk in short term.

Wow, 50% in one of the riskiest assets available on GLBSE, which many are claiming must be a ponzi or scam? It is almost to the level that this is a pass-through to OBSI, which is silly since anybody could just buy OBSI if they want to take that risk. I would suggest diversifying more, even if it does mean a lower return.

[vendor]

Regarding to OBSI.HRPT. At the beginning I will maintain an approximate 50% or even above, just to get the NAV/bond ratio high. I  am aiming at 1.05 by the time the first 8 week reinvesting period is over. If I manage to keep it higher I will. It will give an overall security for this bond in the long term, but increasing the risk in short term.

Wow, 50% in one of the riskiest assets available on GLBSE, which many are claiming must be a ponzi or scam? It is almost to the level that this is a pass-through to OBSI, which is silly since anybody could just buy OBSI if they want to take that risk. I would suggest diversifying more, even if it does mean a lower return.

I will take your suggestion as a good advise and will drop down the percentage to 40 in the very near future. In this case I have to lower my aim to have a 1.05 NAV at the end of 8 weeks to between 1.03 - 1.04.

Until the initial 500 bond not sold it will be difficult to grow the NAV because with new money coming in I have a pressure on me to buy assets to pay 0.03 for each bond. After 500 is sold then the NAV could grow slowly. With less OBSI in the portfolio the grow rate will be slower but V.HRL will be more secure so I accept your point. I am planing to drop Obsi below 40 percent in the long run, but getting down to 40 will enjoy priority now.

[dust]

Regarding to OBSI.HRPT. At the beginning I will maintain an approximate 50% or even above, just to get the NAV/bond ratio high. I  am aiming at 1.05 by the time the first 8 week reinvesting period is over. If I manage to keep it higher I will. It will give an overall security for this bond in the long term, but increasing the risk in short term.

Wow, 50% in one of the riskiest assets available on GLBSE, which many are claiming must be a ponzi or scam? It is almost to the level that this is a pass-through to OBSI, which is silly since anybody could just buy OBSI if they want to take that risk. I would suggest diversifying more, even if it does mean a lower return.

I will take your suggestion as a good advise and will drop down the percentage to 40 in the very near future. In this case I have to lower my aim to have a 1.05 NAV at the end of 8 weeks to between 1.03 - 1.04.

Until the initial 500 bond not sold it will be difficult to grow the NAV because with new money coming in I have a pressure on me to buy assets to pay 0.03 for each bond. After 500 is sold then the NAV could grow slowly. With less OBSI in the portfolio the grow rate will be slower but V.HRL will be more secure so I accept your point. I am planing to drop Obsi below 40 percent in the long run, but getting down to 40 will enjoy priority now.

40% is still huge.  You are essentially freerolling OBSI.HRPT with your investors' money.  What value do you add?  It appears to me that your only role is to take a share of the potential gains but expose investors to the entire risk of losses.

[JoelKatz]

It appears to me that your only role is to take a share of the potential gains but expose investors to the entire risk of losses.

Someone has to do it.

[vendor]

Regarding to OBSI.HRPT. At the beginning I will maintain an approximate 50% or even above, just to get the NAV/bond ratio high. I  am aiming at 1.05 by the time the first 8 week reinvesting period is over. If I manage to keep it higher I will. It will give an overall security for this bond in the long term, but increasing the risk in short term.

Wow, 50% in one of the riskiest assets available on GLBSE, which many are claiming must be a ponzi or scam? It is almost to the level that this is a pass-through to OBSI, which is silly since anybody could just buy OBSI if they want to take that risk. I would suggest diversifying more, even if it does mean a lower return.

I will take your suggestion as a good advise and will drop down the percentage to 40 in the very near future. In this case I have to lower my aim to have a 1.05 NAV at the end of 8 weeks to between 1.03 - 1.04.

Until the initial 500 bond not sold it will be difficult to grow the NAV because with new money coming in I have a pressure on me to buy assets to pay 0.03 for each bond. After 500 is sold then the NAV could grow slowly. With less OBSI in the portfolio the grow rate will be slower but V.HRL will be more secure so I accept your point. I am planing to drop Obsi below 40 percent in the long run, but getting down to 40 will enjoy priority now.

40% is still huge.  You are essentially freerolling OBSI.HRPT with your investors' money.  What value do you add?  It appears to me that your only role is to take a share of the potential gains but expose investors to the entire risk of losses.

At 40 percent if OBSI become worthless overnight, I still be able to pay out 1% weekly. Now we are at 40% but I planing to drop it even further down.

[vendor]

Dividend paid.

[JoelKatz]

At 40 percent if OBSI become worthless overnight, I still be able to pay out 1% weekly. Now we are at 40% but I planing to drop it even further down.

If anyone invests with you after seeing you write this, they are dumber than a box of rocks. If you take a loss of 40% of value, you can't continue to pay out dividends. You would have to distribute the losses to your investors. In order to pay out dividends, you have to have assets that exceed the value of your investment. Otherwise, you are a Ponzi scheme, your principal will dwindle as you continue to make dividend payments, and you will collapse.

[bitcoinbear]

At 40 percent if OBSI become worthless overnight, I still be able to pay out 1% weekly. Now we are at 40% but I planing to drop it even further down.

If anyone invests with you after seeing you write this, they are dumber than a box of rocks. If you take a loss of 40% of value, you can't continue to pay out dividends. You would have to distribute the losses to your investors. In order to pay out dividends, you have to have assets that exceed the value of your investment. Otherwise, you are a Ponzi scheme, your principal will dwindle as you continue to make dividend payments, and you will collapse.

I guess the question here is wether you are paying out all the earnings currently, or if you are only paying out a portion and saving the rest to grow?

[vendor]

At 40 percent if OBSI become worthless overnight, I still be able to pay out 1% weekly. Now we are at 40% but I planing to drop it even further down.

If anyone invests with you after seeing you write this, they are dumber than a box of rocks. If you take a loss of 40% of value, you can't continue to pay out dividends. You would have to distribute the losses to your investors. In order to pay out dividends, you have to have assets that exceed the value of your investment. Otherwise, you are a Ponzi scheme, your principal will dwindle as you continue to make dividend payments, and you will collapse.

If you have a look at the portfolio below the OP you can see that the weekly incoming dividend is 7.2 btc. 4.5 out of it from Obsi. If it goes to zero the remaining will be 2.7. Divide it with the number of outstanding bonds and you will get. 0.016 btc per bond weekly. If 0.01 goes into dividends 0.006 left to get the NAV growing slowly.  

This calculation does not takes into account my fee which I will not take the first eight weeks anyway.

[dust]

At 40 percent if OBSI become worthless overnight, I still be able to pay out 1% weekly. Now we are at 40% but I planing to drop it even further down.

If anyone invests with you after seeing you write this, they are dumber than a box of rocks. If you take a loss of 40% of value, you can't continue to pay out dividends. You would have to distribute the losses to your investors. In order to pay out dividends, you have to have assets that exceed the value of your investment. Otherwise, you are a Ponzi scheme, your principal will dwindle as you continue to make dividend payments, and you will collapse.

If you have a look at the portfolio below the OP you can see that the weekly incoming dividend is 7.2 btc. 4.5 out of it from Obsi. If it goes to zero the remaining will be 2.7. Divide it with the number of outstanding bonds and you will get. 0.016 btc per bond weekly. If 0.01 goes into dividends 0.006 left to get the NAV growing slowly.  

This calculation does not takes into account my fee which I will not take the first eight weeks anyway.

You also lose your principal, destroying your NAV and resulting in a huge loss to investors.  It's not all about dividends.

[JoelKatz]

If you have a look at the portfolio below the OP you can see that the weekly incoming dividend is 7.2 btc. 4.5 out of it from Obsi. If it goes to zero the remaining will be 2.7. Divide it with the number of outstanding bonds and you will get. 0.016 btc per bond weekly. If 0.01 goes into dividends 0.006 left to get the NAV growing slowly.  

This calculation does not takes into account my fee which I will not take the first eight weeks anyway.

Honestly, you just fundamentally don't "get it". If I have a mortgage on my house, and my house burns down, do you think the bank will still let me take out a second mortgage? I mean, I can still make the payments, right?

[P4man]

I wonder if this is the first bitcoin ponzi where the operator apparently doesnt even understand its a ponzi?

[vendor]

At 40 percent if OBSI become worthless overnight, I still be able to pay out 1% weekly. Now we are at 40% but I planing to drop it even further down.

If anyone invests with you after seeing you write this, they are dumber than a box of rocks. If you take a loss of 40% of value, you can't continue to pay out dividends. You would have to distribute the losses to your investors. In order to pay out dividends, you have to have assets that exceed the value of your investment. Otherwise, you are a Ponzi scheme, your principal will dwindle as you continue to make dividend payments, and you will collapse.

If you have a look at the portfolio below the OP you can see that the weekly incoming dividend is 7.2 btc. 4.5 out of it from Obsi. If it goes to zero the remaining will be 2.7. Divide it with the number of outstanding bonds and you will get. 0.016 btc per bond weekly. If 0.01 goes into dividends 0.006 left to get the NAV growing slowly.  

This calculation does not takes into account my fee which I will not take the first eight weeks anyway.

You also lose your principal, destroying your NAV and resulting in a huge loss to investors.  It's not all about dividends.

The NAV would go to 0.6 which would be a big loss that's right. That's why is called High Risk. But I am not agree at all it is a ponzi. It would be if I would use the money from investors to pay out dividend. But every single coin went to GLBSE assets and I paying the dividends from the income coming from them. I can not deny OBSI is ponzi, it might be. But my operation based on it at 40% and continuously decreasing.

The parallel with the mortgage is very misleading. A single house is not generating income V.HRL does. If a house burns down it become useless but if V.HRL loose 40% of its value it still valued at 0.6 so the investment did not go to zero, and still able to pay dividend  at 0.01 BTC per bond. The current value of  bonds paying 0.01 weekly are close to 1 BTC on GLBSE even if people does not now anything about their backings.  

It is more like if you have mortgage on 10 house and 4 burns down you would be able to pay the dividends on the remaining 6. It is sad that those houses were burnt down where the best tenants used to live. But the rest of the tenants are paying well too average 1.6 percent of the value of your newly built properties.

In real life for a house which worth 100.000 dollar you cant get 1600 rent weekly.  But for properties on GLBSE you can. That's a big difference. Although at a cost of high risk.

So the question is when OBSI will default. If it does right after you bought this bond then it is bad but you "only" lost 40 percent of your invested money so you still better off then if you would put it straight to OBSI. And you got the 0.01 afterwards weekly.   But if it will does after two months, when it will be less then 30% in my portfolio, your loss is significantly less. Nearly zero, because you took 0.27 BTC per bond as dividend by then.
That is the risk what involved here.

If I have a strong demand from investors to drop OBSI in short amount of time, let say within couple of weeks to 20 percent I will do that. What comes with it I will have to drop the weekly dividend to 2 percent. If investors prefer less risk with less income I am okey to go that direction. I am willing to drop down it to 20 percent anyway but in few month not in few weeks. If it happens that way there would be no reason to lower the dividend.

[vendor]

Quick update.

OBSI is 35% now. I try to update the portfolio soon for you to have a careful look. I am accepting further criticism.

[vendor]

Portfolio updated:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100800.msg1101210#msg1101210

[vendor]

I have done a quick calculation. The NAV/bond ratio is 0.964 now, based on 5 day average.  It lost value mostly because the NYAN.C and TEEK.B price drop. I would like to get it back to 1.0

Total outstanding bond: 261
Total NAV: 251

So 10 BTC missing.

Projected weekly incoming dividend is 9.44 BTC. If I want the NAV to be 1.0 within 2 weeks I am only able to pay out 4.44 BTC as dividend which makes 0.017 BTC per share for 2 weeks.

I really would like to do that, because In my opinion it is better to have a bond which keeps it's value although from time to time pays less then the maximum of 3% weekly. Than have a bond which pays 3% but keep loosing it's value.

As at the first 8 weeks I will not take any fees so I don't need to involve it in this calculation.

Please let me know what do you suggest.

[puffn]

when did a loan become an investment fund. In my mind, you should pay out 3% until you pay the money back regardless of circumstances.