Bitcoin Forum

The other thread is still discussing gif memes so I thought I'd start a [serious] thread. We should discuss avatar rules / conventions in advance of issues arrising. Here are some discussion points to start us off. I'll add more as they're suggested.

1) Is nudity allowed? If so, to what extreme? To a non nsfw tag?
2) Is NSFL allowed? [NSFL = Not Safe For Life]
3) Is other adult content allowed?
4) Are paid avatar campaigns allowed?
5) Is copyright content allowed? How should copyright holders request deletion of infringing content?
6) Is racial / sexist content allowed?
7) Is there a limit on 'annoyingness'?
8 ) Are 'imitation' avatars allowed? Ie wearing avatars of specific companies to give the false impression of representation.
9) How should users report those with infringing avatars?

1,2,3) No. Not everyone wants to browse the forum while looking at porn.

4) I think if avatars are to be sold, they should just be displayed like MarcoTheMiner's avatar, with his actual avatar on one side and the company name/logo on the other.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=147773

That way, avatars can still be unique, and people can earn bitcoin without the forum getting spammed with the same avatar.

1, 2, 3 - NSFW avatars are not allowed. I am not sure what NSFL means, but I assume it is a typo.

4 - there has not been any specific rule against them, however I don't see any real way to enforce such a rule as campaigns could theoretically originate offsite. Plus prohibiting them would be infringing on users' freedom of speech which is generally not something that the forum engages in

5 - The forum follows the law. I assume a copyright holder should request deletion of infringing content the same way they would request that other content be taken down. ??? is how do to it

6, 7 - I have not seen any rule above that NSFW content is not allowed. However limiting these kinds of things would be stepping on freedom of speech. Just because someone has an unpopular view does not mean they should not be able to express it.

8 - I think that would be difficult because only full members+ can have avatars, so it would be pretty difficult to impersonate via both a username and an avatar without being noticed long before you can have an avatar, so you would get negative trust, which would make it much more obvious. Also most avatars have been reused several times by several people.

9 - see 5

1,2,3: Definitely not.
4: I vote no. If they are I agree with Superhitech, probably not more that 50% of the space should be bought. However it would be a mess to enforce.
5: Not allowed, but again it'd be hard to enforce.
6: Clear infringements should not be allowed.
7: I think it'd be too hard to rate 'annoyingness' so probably not allowing animated gifs is enough.
8: Clear tries to impersonate someone else or a company shouldn't be allowed.
9: There should be a link to report in everyone's profile. Mods should be able to ban the usage of avatars for a period of time or permanently.

No.


No.


Maybe.

If I receive (or anticipate receiving) several complaints about something, it's probably too much.


Yes.


You are not allowed to infringe copyright, of course. I have no way of knowing whether you have a license to use particular images, and it's additionally sometimes difficult to determine whether fair use applies, so I will not be proactively removing possibly-infringing images. The DMCA process is used.


Probably.


Animation is not allowed, so I feel like it'd be difficult to create an avatar that is sufficiently annoying that I'd want to remove it.


Copying someone's avatar in order to impersonate them or cause confusion is not allowed. But if you both use some generic picture of some famous person or something, that's probably not going to count, and using elements of someone's avatar for purposes other than impersonation will probably be allowed. Same for companies.


DMCA takedown notices or any other legal thing must be emailed to me. For other issues, post about it in Meta.

So... Just a question here...
If someone broke the rule...
Do they got banned or something?
If they do how long?

Yeah of course, he could be warned by a moderator (not always) and after he will (surely) be banned.

What a silly question....?!?  :o
Admins may clearly ban people that are breaking rules. Repeated offenders may end being permabanned.

Glad that Theymos replied to most of the questions but still I don't like the fact of adult content being allowed. Regarding copyright, even my image can be considered then as it's taken from the internet and many other members too have copied images which I don't think is wrong as we are not earning by advertising them or are misusing those images. It is just an image I believe in and hence have it as my Avatar. If my avatar is considered a copyright, then I'll delete it.

This profile[1] looks NSFW to me.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=358121



http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=NSFL

I don't think, it is only a "cartoon's girl". It is not a real girl and I don't think that you can't categorize it just NSFW.


just my 2 cents.

If thats a common view here I can accept that and just stop reading from work, but I know when I scroll past that and my boss in behind me I will have problems.

Not Safe For Life is something graphically disturbing like a beheaded man or a dead dog hanging on a tree.

the one you just referred are called an ecchi (Jap for perv) image. so that's not really a NSFL avatars.

fun fact: NSFL originally means Not Safe for Lunch. dunno how it changed

Thats why I wrote NSFW. Most "NSFL" things dont seem to bother me, but - again - would bother my boss, which in turn is a problem for me.

well, NSFW are adult content and-


-I think it's allowed as long as it doesn't draw too much attention.

fun fact  :P: you can disable avatars from your profile

Good questions here.

Does anybody know of DMCA case on a forum avatar? I know it could happen, but I don't think that's a concern to most copyright owners.

Normally copyright is a concern if the one committing the infraction takes monetary gain from it. I really doubt someone here would make money from using a copyrighted avatar. As you said it's possible but extremely unlikely. I've never heard of a case like that.
what could happen is that someone uses a registered (copyrighted) logo to deceive other people into thinking he represents a company. But of course in this case the main violation would be impersonation, not copyright infringements.

Personal Option:

1) No need for pornograpy to be on a Bitcoin forum.
2.) No need for violence or gruesome images.
3.) Female avatars should be allowed (for those immature enough to use it), but with diligence.
4.) Of course. By all means they should be monetized just as signatures are monetized. They can simply be an addition to the signature campaigns for more customization and for branding purposes.
5.) Nope. This would be illegal in some jurisdictions which the forum does not endorse or permit.
6.) That's pretty much the same as the NSFW content.
7.) Shouldn't be. As long as it's in reason.
8.) No regulation should be done on this as long as it doesn't violate copy rights.
9.) PM a mod.


If theymos feels there needs to be some moderation on avatars, he'll edit his post and enforce rules. As of now, there seems to be no noticeable issue.

I think:
1.2.3. No! There are children around here!
4. I think it is possible (like signatures, avatars can be ignored)
5.6. No! They are illegal in some places!
7. Yes. Very annoying avatars should be banned.
8. ...what does this means?
9. Open a thread and list those users.

Why?

Maybe turn avatars off if it's going to be a problem but won't he have a problem with you not working? I can't imagine most bosses being okay with their employees browsing forums during work.

Depends what they're being used for. I used to spent a lot of time trawling excel based forums while at work, to work out how to do certain advanced things. Although what use this forum has at work, I'm not sure.

most employers allow their employees to browse the internet while on breaks/downtime. Some even don't have an issue with browing the internet as long as certain other goals are met (most likely primarily productivity), although if someone were to spend large amounts of time on a forum then an employer would probably not be very happy

Nope, thats fine. There is not always work to do. Id rather not hide all avatars, but I could e.g. ignore the user in question. Its currently only one. I could probably just block the specific image with adblock or something similar. There are enough ways around it, I was curious about what exactly is considered NSFW though. The linked profil in question is a bit borderline IMHO as there are similar ads out there.


I dont want go into too much detail, but I do a variety of tasks at work. Some have downtimes and we are allowed to use the Internet access freely as long as we remember where we are (at work) and when in doubt only do what a representative of the organisation would do. Thus browsing bitcointalk.org would be no problem for most parts, but as soon as tits or penises start poping up I would get my boss in an awkward situation. I know for a fact that they would not have a problem with this personally, but there are other employees who have and we might get visitors from higher up the food chain.

I guess the ignore user works fine for this. But what is acceptable will have different parameters depending on each person so sometimes it's hard to say what is 'nsfw' as like you said that avatar is borderline. I had made a suggestion in the staff forum before for a 'hide a users signature' button but maybe there could be a hide an avatar as well for those that people find nsfw or too annoying etc.

Nudity =/= Porn. I don't understand why people always make this connection. People shower nude is that pornographic? People are born nude, is that pornographic?

Wut. If you made a video of you naked in the shower, is that pornographic? If someone recorded you being born, is that pornographic? No, but its still not something your employer would want you to be passively exposed to.

tldr, naked people have nothing to do with bitcoin or bitcointalk.org, bosses don't like naked people.

Well we got some threads going on in the forum that contain NSFW content; specifically non-sexual nudity (thus non-pornographic). I was just implying when people state that Nudity=Porn they're wrong. Non-sexually explicit nudity is not porn.


In the case of avatars fine... No NSFW stuff; that I concur with.

Well, you may think like that but you can't make everybody think like you do. Different people see contents at different level and hence, what is not NSFW for you maybe NSFW for another person.

After all, you went away from basic: "Not suitable or safe for work".

I think the same, that avatar is at the limit of "decency" and it is not safe for work. Maybe theymos can contact him (that user) or remove the avatar and change it with another one. If my boss will see that image I am sure he will not be "so happy".

I may not care; but, a g/f of mine just saw the picture and told me it looks like a pedo's cartoon girl.  ??? :o Not sure if she maybe right, but i thinks it's something to reflect on.  :o

Cartoons are also included in NSFW and how do you know it isn't real? What if an artist drew by looking a woman? What if it was converted to a cartoon image using a software? IMHO it is an NSFW content.


You do realise there are a lot of types of swimsuits. Like I said, "NSFW" will be different for different persons.


+1. Probably right.

I've seen mouse pad with this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=358121 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=358121) picture, kind of mouse pad where boobs of this anime girl were made of silicon jelly and you can rest your wrist on them. And people in that shop commented that it is funny idea, nobody said anything about it is being pedo or NSFL related. So I think you guys are being paranoid here and this avatar hunt is starting to resemble with hunts. Just stop that. We will see a clear limit of stupid avatar someday - this is not the one.

And you seriously think there's nothing wrong with that? That certainly is a shop I won't visit again. They just lost a customer.

Thanks for your input.


Your personal opinion is certainly no the norm for everyone else. What makes you think there is something wrong with someone because of their opinion of a picture? Dont answer, its derailing the topic.


Pictures of girls (real or not) flaunting their breast esp. in this manner[1] can certainly make other girls uncomfortable. This is exactly what my problem with the example in question is. I personally dont care. I think it makes the person wearing the avatar immature, but thats just me. My boss personally probably does not care for every similar reasons. Some of my less mature male colleagues however might feel the need to comment on the picture in a vulgar way. Some insecure female colleagues might feel offended by the picture. Essentially this can turn from a pubescent fantasy into an pseudo[2] feminist workplace nightmare. Id like to avoid the later one. I might very well be alone with this, but thats fine with me, I know how to make the avatar disappear.


Id call that tacky, but its probably a question of maturity and/or age.


I was never asking for it to be banned, I merely state that the avatar in question looks NSFW for me. This certainly depends on my workplace and my personal opinion as well as views. There is no hunt. This is just a discussion about avatars or at least that was my intention.

Yes, there are NSFW topics here, but they are typically labeled as such. E.g. I just stoped posting in the "free hugs" thread a while back for a similar reason. An avatar is not limited to a certain area I can just avoid, it can pop up in the tech support section as well as in off topic or in meta. Disabling all avatars is certainly an option, but I guess Ill take the risk and block the specific picture for now. Thank you all for your input apparently the majority of you has no problem with pictures like this at work.

[1] essential in an available for sex or aroused pose
[2] IMHO the picture in question is essentially a sexual fantasy and has very little to do with equality.

I believe an Avatar is an image that either represents the person or his belief/likes (in a DECENT way). It is also the matter of decency when it comes to an open forum like this and so that user (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=358121) should upload an image that is decent enough and not an image that makes other members uncomfortable. I also don't like the Avatar of VOD as well and some users too add Signatures which are so indecent. This is a bitcoin forum and not an adult forum where such images should be allowed.

Can I ask you one thing:  have you contacted that user (bigbitmine)? To try convince him to remove that avatar, or better change it to another one. Maybe he will agree and we can close this discussion here. Try and let us know if he will agree or not. 


PS: the vod avatar is "normal"...

Hello everyone,

Someone made me aware of this thread via PM.  I have seen someone devoid of any sense of humour (Yes I'm British so it's spelled in the queens English) has moaned about my avatar.

Big kudos to all those that have spoken out in the contrary.  It's really appreciated.

Can I just say:

A:  It's a cartoon

B:  The CARTOON is not showing any nudity, I could have an avatar of a REAL woman wearing the same CLOTHES!!!

C:  If you consider this clothed cartoon female NSFW you must work in a monastery or similar!

D:  If this avatar offends, scares or worries you then you need to turn off your computer, go out and meet females.  Honestly, they won't kill you (Mostly!)

If this avatar really does break some kind of rule I expect the boards admins (Properly identified) to request that it is removed and I shall happily comply.

Personally, a Bitcoin forum where a user has gone to the originality to NOT create a Bitcoin avatar is refreshing.  And if you want to get really pissy I find the avatar of Peter Griffin licking his nipple FAR more offensive.

Thank you for your time.

Irrelevant, in my opinion.


It's not naked, but she's in an obviously sexual pose. Yes, that can be considered not safe for work.


This is sexist. What about women who complain? Do you recommend them to go meet women too, because they don't know what breasts look like?


I'm not an admin or anything. I'm just a common user, who is giving an opinion on the subject.



You're right on this one. Either we allow both or we forbid both.

If those with delicate principles and fascist bosses, can't handle bigbitmine's cartoon girl avatar, then wait 'til they get a load of me. :D
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrn0hl5oJR1qdshi4o1_500.gif
Is my username or avatar NSFW? ::)

Your P. MSG might be. ;)

I thought it was nicer than my old one, since I'm giving out compliments. Guaranteed! My p. msg. used to be just "I like boobs." Is that better?

What if someone had a p. msg. that was "Anything's a dildo, if you're brave enough." with this https://i.imgur.com/Q9CBRgg.jpg avatar? Would that be NSFW or could it even be NSFL if you think about it?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121109111615/glee/images/2/27/Burn_computer.gif

Let the word twisting games begin. I will not participate though.


Just because someone has a different opinion than you have, does not make them a loner. Besides that, we are talking about whether or not the avatar is safe for work. Personally attacking the person that has a different opinion about it than you have is not discussing a topic, its trolling. You clearly stated your opinion, even though it was already clear without you writing a single word.


Now thinking ahead of time and trying to understand the feelings someone else might have when confronted with the picture in question is fascist. If I could have imagined what this topic brings to light I would have started something similar way earlier. This is very enlightening.


Fruits are typically considered safe for work. Your intent is very obvious, but the melons are not pictured as sexually aroused. I think you get the difference.


---

Edit:
Let me get something cleared up here. Im not trying to take away or outlaw your sexual fantasies. I merely asked whether displaying them in a discussion board might be considered inappropriate esp. considering that these boards might be read in a variety of places. Id ask you to consider the thoughs going to your daughters minds when confronted, the worldview this transfers, but I dont think a serious discussion about this is possible here. Again, thats fine with me, its not like avatars are complicated to hide. For those that are looking for a quick step by step, see here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1012710.msg10992272#msg10992272

What do you think about this avatar?

https://bitcointalk.org/useravatars/avatar_222075.jpg   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=222075

I think it is NSFW, and you?

Definitely

It's not NSFW, as it doesn't contain nudity or pornographic images. You can see this on any beach everywhere every summer.

Right. To me this is worse than bigbitmine's.

Ok you are right but I bet you to work and leave open that profile user, what will think your boss?

Yes, for me it is "not safe for work". If my boss will see this image when I am working I am sure that I'll have some trouble with him.


PS: the image it's nice, but as I said previously it is NSFW.

But in the beach you see hundreds of people, you see the sea, you see the sand, the gulls, the children. It's a matter of focus. This picture is focused in a very specific thing, and that is what makes it NSFW.

Well technically speaking if you're on the forum, then you're not working, so.... that's probably where you'd problems would start.

You don't need nudity to have NSFW content. Also, an office and a beach are totally different environments, and you usually see the rest of the girl anyway.

I wouldn't consider clothed girls NSFW, I see worse than that all the time in ads. Probably shouldn't be browsing the internet at all if that will get you in trouble. Though historically, theymos and I have somewhat disagreed with regards to NSFW content in the past, so don't take that as a final answer.  

It does say a lot about the user though, so there's that.

I don't see why an ignore avatar function couldn't be included along with ignore signatures if/when it's added.

Not necessarily, If I am working I can surf in the forum (during the breaks) but it depends of what work are you doing.

I think that is a nice avatar and if anyone is offended with that...they need to unplug the internet and read books.

So for you it is safe for work, isn't it? I am not offended with that, it is only NSFW.

Honestly I don't think my avatar is so scandalous  :)
But if it offends someone I could remove it. Just let me know...

Youd also not go in a bathing slip/suit to work, well unless you work at the beach.

Unless you work as a lifeguard. Even at the beach, people who are working wear a shirt and a short, at least (that sounds funny, though).

To those with a problem there is an ignore button.  I guarantee I won't miss your input!

AFAIK we can spend our spare time for doing things we like which doesn't make the company looks bad. So redsn0w like to use Bitcoin forum in spare time and I don't find any reason for not doing so.


Please see bigbitmine's photo again. Do you think it is "a woman standing in a bikini"?

https://youtu.be/tmvSCYb9uuk (https://youtu.be/tmvSCYb9uuk)

Now a cartoon of a girl in a bikini is just plain silly, but women in a bikini in general are safe for most peoples works..

bigbitmine and El Emperador's avatars are fine IMO.

Hot chick avatars are the realm of heterosexual teenage males.

You guys are aging yourselves.

looks to me that they're afraid that their "image" might get ruined when someone see them chatting on a forum with these supposed "NSFW" avatars.

I think this statement ends our discussion about avatars for now, as they are fine! If any other hunter of morally wrong avatars have found  some others despicable avatars already I will gladly see them because they may be even funnier... But I seriously hope that another witch hunt will not begin anytime soon.

Great video! ;D :'( ;D

theymos says you don't need a "Boob Apron" on that avatar!

Thinking about it been a while since someone used them
But can QR addresses work as tip jars, kind of died with the age of Sig campaigns.

(Let the clothed boobs reign unless they get to out of hand mirceas was worse it had a nip slip)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52741
And Vod has full boobage  ;)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=30747

After putting some more thought into it, BadBears comparisson with ads ended the argument for me.


Kinda miss the old Avatar though.

Is his Avatar safe for work? I don't think it is, reported it to mods, I hope it gets removed soon.

https://i.imgur.com/dONDMfL.png
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=112128

I wouldnt have a problem with that, Id hardly say its not safe for work. I know i could quite happily scroll down with avatars like that at work and have no problem. Thats kind of normal on most forums you come across. When i say most i mean repected ones also. Its nothing you wouldnt see on a beach, swimmng pool or gym. To me if its set as nsfw then it should be unsafe for children to see, children would see that and wouldnt think twice about it.

The "lady" in the avatar is clothed and this is BB's stance on such avatars

Ok. I guess its safe then. And I hope people don't start putting up avatars of girls wearing floss bikinis, they're still clothed but.. :D

I'll stop reporting them from now onwards. :)