Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys,

I don't want to argue badly (or make a sort of fight here) so please keep 'peaceful' the discussion. Yesterday in the advcash service discussion I have posted two messages in a row -- double posting (* and a mod merged them in one post , saying someone reported my posts). I didn't think it was against the forum rules, I have made only to make comfortable the reading of those posts.

Now I would like to ask what's wrong in make consecutive posts (not every quote= new post - but maybe 2-3 quotes in a post and other 1-2 quotes in other post)? Is it against the forum rules?


Thanks for the attention, and I want to reply again "please keep 'peaceful' this thread"


*edit

No, I don't think that amounts to spam or is against the rules.

I also find it difficult in some cases. Posting everything in a single post makes it very hard to read, and quotes get too long, while making one post for every quote is pretty too much.

I would say, find a balance. ;)

If you do it with a signature it can be seen as 'post padding' to raise your post count and get paid more.

I'd avoid if possible.

Please lock this thread once you get a few replies or else you'll get the entire forum posting different but similar opinions.

I know but (I think) this is the first time I have made two consecutive posts only to make comfortable the reading or legibility. There is not a second "fine".



So now I should report all the users are 'making double posting", do you know how much users I have seen do post in this way? I don't want to write their username here... I will report all their posts now and see if they will merged in one or not. If they will not merge in one unique post I think this is a sort of discrimination.

However I do not consider double posting (only two posts) in a row for the quotes question 'post padding'... I have seen users posted 3-4 posts in a row, and I don't consider it bump because the posts are close to each other in seconds.

---

Thanks for your opinion guys!

Example (sorry ndnhc):

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1022171.msg11063318#msg11063318
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1022171.msg11063357#msg11063357

https://archive.today/o7Imu

---

Is this considered double posting? I don't think it is to be considered 'double posting' because here has replied to 3 posts and after for a question of legibility made another one.

Yesterday I have made the same thing, but someone reported me (well done) and the mod merged those two posts. However if it is against the forum rules I would like to know if it is really against the forum rules.

If you want to quote other users' replies and want to avoid double posting but is hesitant to do so because it will make the thread "long" and difficult to read, why not cut the portion or the point that you want to reply and not the whole reply of the user per se? That might avoid the long reply because of quoting and can be a good way to avoid double posting.

Well, even if I made 3 posts consecutively, I will be doing so only with the pure intention of making the reader understand it better especially since I don't get paid for any posts I make. :)

Actually if u are doing it when you are in a signature campaign it might be reported as post spam so as to increase post count but otherwise I guess it won't be against the rules as at times due to some glitches I also at times send double PMs.

A mod wud better answer you though.

It's not really necessary to be honest. I'm not really buying the whole length thing. I often quote many people I want to reply to in one post. Why would you need to double post? The only way I can see it being valid is if a thread hasn't been replied to and you need to bump it for whatever reason.

I always post in this way, remove the unecessary post and replace it with '...' but yesterday I have separated the quotes.



But you are wearing a sig ad (like me and all the other users that posted in this thread). Me too, yesterday I have "splitted or better cut" the 3 quotes in : 2 quotes: 1 post | and other quote in another post, only to make comfortable the reading (as you said).

---

All this situation make me really "weirded" http://nodownloadzoneforum.net/public/style_emoticons/default/Asd.gif and really I can't understand what is the purpose.

Spam? Hmm I don't think this is the real reason. Thanks also to you, for the reply.



Thanks for your reply, this is mine:


I have replied to those users in a few second, so it is not a bump to that thread. Have a nice day guys, it is not a problem for me but if all the other users can do/make double posting and their thread were not merged then this is the problem.

I don't find it wrong in anyway as once even I did it to post comments in a Signature campaign I was a part of but my second post was deleted even though it was not off topic and it wasn't merged. I don't get paid to post in my signature campaign but well it is considered as bumping a thread twice and so one needs to clutter up their post to avoid double posting or wait for another person to reply and then post another comment.

I usually double post only to return to the thread some minute later and replying it. I am doing a couple of things sometimes, so it is really difficult to click and edit the existing post, only to find it has already been replied to without the new thing added. Obviously, it gets overlooked.

I had plenty of experiences getting quoted without the edited part.  :-\

So there isn't a clear rule and each mod. "moderate" thanks to hi judgement (not a problem) but I will see if that mod will merge those posts from those users or not. This is why I have opened that thread (but first I sent a pm to that mod).

That's not really an excuse. You can still edit them all into one post or just make the post with multiple replies in the first place.


I don't think there's any rule on it but it's never going to be looked upon favourably when you have a signature as it's unnecessary, but I honestly don't know why you felt the need to double post in this thread. Looks like you're pushing your luck to me.

Ok but if I report an user (who wear a sig ad) and made a couple of  posts in a row the staff should merge them or am I wrong? Because if there is not a rule and then is not against the forum rules I can write two posts in a row for make comfortable the reading/legibility (as the other users did, but their posts are not merged - not a problem).

Thanks again.


Edit: as I said previously,  I usually reply 2-3 also 4 quotes in one post but yesterday I tried to post in a row.

Well we'll probably have to wait for clarification from the admins on that. It's the first situation I've heard of a mod editing and merging double posts but maybe it should be taken on a case-by-case basis. I think people should make the habit of not doing double posts though.

There is no rule against "double posting" as you are describing. Who was the moderator that did this and what was the post?

By making two posts, it makes it easier to read, especially when you are quoting multiple responses. If you make one post that responded to 5 or 6 different people then more likely then not the people you are responding to will either not see that you responded to them or will otherwise ignore your post.

This practice may or may not be post padding, however post padding is not against the rules, making insubstantial posts however is, so as long as each of your posts are not insubstantial and contributes to the conversation then you should be fine.

If I can, this is the post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1011381.msg11053831#msg11053831  edited - merged by grue (I have already contacted him and I don't have anything against his action, I only want a clarification because I do not think it is against the forum rules and no one of the various posts of other users were merged in a one).

---

read my reply above the quote, it was not insubstantial posts. Wait, I have received this PM (before see the post merged):



I have replied to the messages #28 - #30  in a separated post , for make understable and comfortable all the content; and replied to #29 in another one.

I was not saying that your post was insubstantial, I was just making a general statement.

The way that your two posts were merged make it very difficult to read/follow. This is exaggerated by the fact that your references are now in the middle of your posts. I would even go as far to say that your posts went from being two constructive posts to being one incoherent post.

I am not surprised that grue was the one who merged the posts and good luck getting an explanation from him. I have only received invalid actions by him. He once told me to stop reporting duplicate/undeleted old bumps because there is no rule against leaving them in the thread, however once I pointed him to the specific rule allowing them he acknowledged that he was wrong (however I was left with a good number of reports that were incarcerated marked as invalid). More recently he deleted a bump because I had bumped my thread less then 24 hours after the previous bump, however after proving that it had been more then 24 hours since my last bump he responded with a screenshot of his browser history (???) and when I followed up with him asking him why he thought that I had bumped my thread less then 24 hours prior to my most recent bump along with the times each post was made I did not receive a response.

I have long speculated that he has figured out the formula that theymos uses to calculate how much each moderator gets from the forum ad sales, and that grue pads his moderator activity to increase his payout. If you exclude the amount that BadBear gets, then grue makes well over 2x the amount that the next highest paid moderator gets on a consistent basis. The problem is that this is very difficult to prove as most of the information needed to prove this is unavailable to me.

Example please? Maybe because they are consecutive without someone posting in between. Makes sense since you could have just ecited the last post you made.

Example for my two posts in a row (double posting)? Only that in the advcash thread, I don't remember to posted other times in this way (because I always reply to 2-3 quotes in one post, yesterday I don't felt to post all in one message so I have separated in two posts).

It's unavailable to everyone but theymos but there's probably not much to figure out - handle a lot of reports / move threads and get paid for them. Theymos has stated before that deleting posts doesn't account for much (which is probably a good idea) and I delete a hell of a lot of bumps in the marketplace and don't get paid any more for them so that's likely not an issue. I think the mod money that is allocated is capped to certain staff levels. Patrollers seem to get a max of around 2btc or so if they're very active whereas very active Globals like grue and BadBear get near or around 8btc (though I believe it's dished out by the dollar value so it will fluctuate from time to time but the payments in comparison are roughly the same). I've always got the same even when when I got promoted from Patroller to both mod of the entire Marketplace and Bitcoin Discussion. I must be handling at least double of what I was yet I still get the same and the same as when I was just a patroller and the same as other very active patrollers or mods of a local board so I reckon it's just capped by staff position. It would be interesting to see who handles the most reports / makes the most mod actions but maybe then people could game the system but there doesn't seem much that active mods could do to get more if they're already hitting their staff level thresholds etc.

May I ask you if you are doing the mod because you like it or because you are paid for moderate your sections?

The total payment to all of the moderators is 25% of the forum ad sales, so if the ads sell for a higher amount then the mods as a whole will get more.

The exact formula is secret, although if you keep track of what actions you take and how much you are paid then you should be able to figure out what actions are worth the most and taking those kinds of actions even when they might not be necessary. For example sending a PM to someone in relation to a moderation (e.g. being from a moderator as a moderator) likely causes that moderator action to be "worth" more or is separately worth something in itself. One of my alts once had one of it's posts deleted when I replied to a post of Bruno about something that grue claimed was off topic, this was far from a trend and was probably unnecessary to receive a PM about it, however I got a PM around the time the post was deleted saying that my post was deleted because it was a reply to an off topic post.

I would think that the payment is not based on responsibilities, but rather by actions taken. It is just that a higher ranking staff member would have more opportunities to take additional actions, and potentially more valuable actions.

Please guys can we stay on topic? Thanks. If you want information of how to become a mod (or how they became mod) open your own thread here in the meta section.

Except it's not really possible as I explained above. I handle too many reports to count and I'm sure I could probably handle much less but still get paid the same seeing as I more or less get the same every month (or didn't get any more after I got promoted so clearly there is a limit or threshold based on staff rank and I'm hitting it). Very active patrollers or mods of local boards like me and Eal got pretty much exactly the same but even after I got made mod of the entire Marketplace and Bitcoin Discussion and my workload must have at least doubled but yet we still get paid pretty much the same.


Report a lot of posts and be a very active member of the community and theymos may ask you eventually.


I don't think any of us mods get our jollies from moderating and saying we like it would be a bit sadomasochistic I think :D but the payment is just a nice bonus for the work that we put in and I very much appreciate it as I'm sure many mods would also agree. I'm not complaining if that's what it looks like. Just stating the pay is likely capped via mod rank.

You could automate the counting of actions taken in a number of ways. That wouldn't be very hard because a good number of moderator functions require you to visit a page within the forum that has a special URL so you could just develop a bot to count each time you visit a webpage that has '?action=deletemsg" in the URL for deleting posts.

It is possible that payment is capped on an action basis. So for example you can only earn a max of "x" for deleting posts, a may of "y" for moving threads, ect. So if you are unable to take additional actions that you were not previously able to do (I don't think going from patroller to moderator of certain sections allows you to take additional actions) then your max payment would remain the same (assuming that payments are in fact capped in some way). I do think that moderators of various sections should probably receive an additional payment for the added responsibility.

I dont think so, well in fact I know its not against the rules, because its not listed as a rule. The question is whether the post is spam or not and this is unrelated to whether you quote a single person or multiple. I think its personal preference. IIRC doog said that he stopped advertising his signature because he was afraid to get a ban because of said posting style. Thats the crux, if you sell your signature you will have a hard time arguing that its just your posting style, esp. if you get paid per post.




I think this is a very fascinating topic, but should be discussed elsewhere.

So the problem is only because I am selling my signature space to bit-x.com? If I didn't wear a signature my two posts would have not been removed, this is very "insane". Only because they are paying me for my posts I can't write 2 posts in a row, but the signature campaign is not against the forum rules and those two posts are not to be considered spam or insubstantial so why all this?

I hope you understand me, this is really illogical. Sorry guys , if I seem arrogant but this is my point of view (and maybe I am wrong, who knows?).

Sounds like somebody is preparing for his own little banishment dance...How quickly the mighty have fallen :P

No, not exactly. I dont think there is a problem per se with that posting style. Its like posting in offtopic, its perfectly fine. Its just that when there is a judgement to be made the fact that you have a paid signature might have an influence on the judgement. People will certainly report you more often because you sell your signature. People will see these posts and think "is that just for the extra x satoshi?". If there is no paid signature these thoughts just dont come up, because there is no reason to doubt your motives.


I understand you perfectly fine. Its like: there is no problem, just dont do it. Im afraid thats what we have to live with. I think its what those spamming brought on the campaigns and those participating. If it feels too restrictive there is always an easy exit.

I was afraid when I started posting in Politics & Society. thebitcoinquiz.com recently complained about this behavior in BIT-X.com signature campaign thread.

Most of the posts I need to reply needs to be answered separately. Else, it will become too messy and too long. For example, see recent double posts of mine^[1], I don't know how it can answers the questions if it is merged rather than making it more confusing. Although this is the case, as long as we wear paid signatures, we will see these type of actions(no offence, no complains).

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=888757.msg11068008#msg11068008

Edit: Corrected typos and added few words.

No, I will (obviously) will not start my own little banishment dance  ;D.



Yes you are right, the unique problem is signature campaign but if the post are not spammy or insubstantial I don't see the reason to delete it or merge. It is my personal choice to make two posts (attached in seconds, for make comfortable the legibility) and as you ( & me) said if I had not a signature I am sure my post would have not been merged ;).




I will not write 2 posts in a row anymore (also if it is not against the rules) but if I will 'catch' or seen an user do the same will report his posts for sure (I have already reported an user and I would like to see if his posts will be merged or not).

So you disagree with the practice of moderators merging posts, but plan to encourage it by reporting double posts to them from now on?

I see...

No, it would seem but it is not so. A disagree with the practice of "merge" because it is not against the forum rules write two posts in a row (for make comfortable the legibility). If they will say : yes it is against the forum rules then no one (me toom or only who is wearing a sig ad) should write two posts in a row anymore but they cannot do it only because I am (or someone else) wearing a sig ad; this is the real insane thought behind the scene.


Again, if there is not the spam case or those two posts were not insubstantial I don't see the reason.


Sorry again, I want only discuss in a peaceful way. Thanks again for the attention.

I think if you wear a paid signature you are held to a higher standard for things like this. Since so many people pad their counts it is automatically assumed paid sig + double posts = padding. I bet if you did not have a paid signature it would not have been reported/merged.

i often scroll through threads replying to each entry on its own (but i dont have any sig ad)

but imho you are right with the length of one post. i dont see a reason to split that.

So as I said previously the real problem is the sig ad, if someone without it would have made the same thing I'm sure their posts have not been touched; but it is not against the forum rules write two post in a row (attached in seconds) and especially to make comfortable the legibility and making understand the user who asked a question.

This is the illogical thing here.

I've had two occasions where I made a thread, somebody replied to it, and then they deleted their post after I had posted a response to it. This made it look like I double posted when it wasn't the case before. One solution could have been to delete the post. However, if the new post adds to the discussion and introduces new ideas to the thread then another solution could have been to delete the post and merge it with the post above it. In both cases, I simply left it alone and nothing happened afterwards.

One thing that definitely irks me when quoting multiple posts is when part of your answer is another quote. Since quote boxes look identical, it can be hard to tell where the reply ends and a new one begins.

Example:

<quote 1 from thread>
blah blah.
<quote 2 from thread>
blah blah. see:
<quote from another thread>
blah blah. also see:
<quote from another thread>
<quote 3 from thread>
blah blah. see:
<quote from another thread>

Other than that, I'm not sure what the benefit would be of splitting a long post into two posts though. The end result would be the same except now there would be a big space in between containing your signature, post title, etc. which readers would simply skim over. A single long post could be made more readable by have spacing or differently sized headings to achieve the same effect.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^66

I 100% agree with that, and when ever I read a post, I assume the one below it is from a different user. If you double post it confuses me

Is this considered double posting?

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1023220.msg11088013#msg11088013
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1023220.msg11088197#msg11088197

https://archive.today/Kmss4

13 minutes between the two posts, also if their posts "are not payed" he is wearing a sig ad.
Sorry ndnhc but I want to understand what are the "rules" here (I have reported the post, and ask if a mod can merge them in one).

Thanks for the attention.

The first one is a reply to a post.

I came in later and made a change to the contest.
It is an announcement very relevant to the topic and there is nothing wrong in making another post to get it noticed.

Since its in the marketplace section it would technically violate the no < 24 hour bumps (updates etc. included) rule.

Exactly, we can say "it is not against the forum rules write two posts in a row - attached in seconds" and my two posts were merged (but it is not a problem, until I will not receive an exhaustive reply I will keep opened this thread).
As shorena said it is not allowed to bump your thread in less than 24 hours, and you left run 13 minutes between those two posts.

Unless the last *bump* was less then 24 hours ago then that would not be the case. His first post should not be considered a bump because it was a reply to someone else. Unless he made an update/bump less then 24 hours ago separate from the posts in question then it would not violate the bump rule.

But he could post the announcement and the reply to that user in one post (maybe wait a couple of minutes before posting that thing). A reply is considered a bump , because it 'brings' the thread above all the others.

i don't think someone else posting in a thread would count in a bump. I would consider a bump to be a post whose sole reason is to "bump" it to the top and/or provide some kind of update.

Some people will reference the update post either in their OP or elsewhere and many people probably do not want the post they point to having information that is not relevant to the update.

Using the logic that anytime someone posts in a thread it is considered "bumped" then active threads would never be able to be updated because someone would always have posted in the last 24 hours.

It is going to be a busy day ahead for you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=813554.300

Start reporting!!  ;D

P.S. Don't skip the date time part.. Be careful while reporting.

I didn't say everyone's posts are to be considered as 'bump', I said only if he also replied to an users and after 13 minutes wrote again (two posts in a row) it is to be considered as a bump. I don't care about the other posts made by the other forum users.

Explain why you bumped your thread to get more attention, while it was not necessary to do so? in this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1022225.msg11063592#msg11063592
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1022225.msg11063629#msg11063629

6 minutes.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1022225.msg11063954#msg11063954
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1022225.msg11063977#msg11063977

4 minutes.


You could have avoided it..

Bump a meta thread http://nodownloadzoneforum.net/public/style_emoticons/default/Asd.gif. I don't have anything to promote or sell here.


Edit: yes in the first case I could avoid it, in the second one I didn't noticed by the reply of that users because I have pressed the post button various time.

Meta posts count towards your signature posts.  ;D

;)

I think Ill pass, thanks though.

Honestly I think its best to just let it go redsn0w. AFAIK it happened once, right? The boards policy on defining rules any further is pretty clear. They are a bit fuzzy to keep people from lawyering the rules to their advantage.


I dont think others count as bumps.


In fact, I already linked to it in the sig overview thread.

If I want to bump the thread, without double posts, why not just delete, repost, delete repost every 15 minutes or so? (It will get noticed sooner or later, tho)

No one would make 2 posts one after the other with such a small gap to bump their thread to the top. May be once in a few hours will count towards such an intention. Otherwise, such a rule won't make sense.

This is the problem, I don't still understand if make two posts in a row is against the forum or not. However if you want to report my posts, feel free to do it. Be paid for my posts is not against the forum rules, I know what do you want to say but it seems not this is the case (it can be a problem if my posts were spammy or insubstantial).


Thanks for your opinion guys, this is the way for a pacific discussion.

Maybe you are right (we have learned that make two posts in a row 'may be' against the forum rules, in some circumstances).




/thread locked.