Bitcoin Forum

Does anybody know if they will be stand alone units that just need internet, or we will have to connect them to a PC?
How they will be controlled?

You will need a spare PC with spare USB ports (laptops work great for this).

Once configured, we can free up the laptop so the SC can go headless, right?

No. It should be just like current Singles or Mini Rigs or any other FPGA out there, you need a PC to run the mining equipment.

I don't understand.  Sorry.

So the Single SC will simply be a replacement for the current CPU or GPU?  the Single SC will need other components of the PC, e.g. hard drive, memory to run?

Thanks

Yes, exactly.  Think of it as a peripheral.  Like a mouse or keyboard, it's useless without being connected to a running computer.

No it's not like that. You need a working computer or a laptop to run the mining software. Then you connect the SC Single to the PC with a USB cable, like you would a USB keyboard or a flash drive.

Here (http://vimeo.com/42249868) is a video (not mine) of 8 Singles connected by USB to a laptop, running a mining software (BitMinter) that uses the Singles to mine.

Thanks

A cheap low powered netbook will work well for this. You dont need a lot of cpu power and 2gb ram is plenty. Connect to a usb hub if you need more ports.

Some people are even using Raspberry Pis with FPGA.  I would think that they should theoretically be able to handle the ASICs as well: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=69183.msg919685#msg919685

I think this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76685.0) is my favorite tho.  ;D

I understand we haven't seen the design yet.  If we were going to use the laptop, how many USB ports do we need?  Each SC will take a USB port?!  Can we join SCs together?

Each SC Single will most likely use 1 USB port. They don't use a lot of bandwidth, so using any USB hub (http://www.amazon.com/s/field-keywords=usb%20hub) will work just fine to connect several SC Singles to one laptop.

They are just external devices that plug into USB ports.

The FPGA mini-rig needs two USB ports.  What I'm wondering is how many will be needed for 1,000GH rigs?  Seems like a lot of data to be passing thru.

The BFL MR uses 2 USB ports because it is actually using an average of 18 FPGA modules, that are all controlled via USB. There are 2 USB hubs inside the MR, and each hub has one of the cables you mentioned. It is unknown how many ASIC chips a 1TH unit will have, and likely won't be known until someone here on the forums gets one and takes it apart.

It's actually not a lot of data, from what I've read here on the forums. The data sent to/from the computer to the miner is very small, so the USB bandwidth is nowhere near its max limits.

You would need somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500 of them PLUS also magic if you want them to be profitable, as ASICs are about to be released that are 8.75x faster at approximately the same power level (everyone assumes).

Good to know, i thought they will be stand alone units.
Does anybody know if they will require cooling? eg will they have fan noise? And what would be the physical dimensions of the new singles...?

I have a spare galaxy S3, would be pretty cool if i can connect them to that and run the mining proggie on it... :>

I believe the specs say they'll use a very similar casing as the FPGA single which has a top-mounted fan.  I think it's even a super silent Effizio Silenx red series fan if I remember correctly.  So they're basically self contained units that monitor and run themselvs with their own power indicators and cooling and all that.

so, they will be quite small? that's good.
What's the noise level?

Okay, I was assuming it was this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226034
which is a mere 15 dba!  Silenx claims it's beyond human hearing capability :P But unfortunaetly I must be thinking of another manufacturer's device because this pic:
http://www.butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/BFL_Rev3_production.jpg
Seems to indicate that they're using unbelievably crappy, low quality, cheap fans.  I carry those at my shop and they suck!  They're loud, they break a lot, and I hate them.  So they spend a fortune on copper heatsinks and then can't spend an extra couple bucks to get a good fan, wow.
BFL says the current single from them runs at 32db btw so that's probably similar to the new ones.

Wow,Desolator, are you the President of the BFL Haters fanclub   ???

You run a PC repair shop too  ???

Is there anything you don't do,besides order BFL products  ???

Wow ZenInTexas, that's some amazing answer. You seem to really know (in details) what you are talking about, thanks! :)

Agreed ZenInTexas or should I say Mr. Sonny  ;D

I think the real question is why do you or anyone like them so much?  Do you not know their history?  Any info about their employees?  Anything about their hardware?  Anything about their history with shipping late and overestimating stats by A LOT?

I got those exact fans for my shop because they were unbelievably cheap but they're so loud and wear out so fast, I stopped using them in favor of better fans and now I'm stuck with them.  Just thought I'd point out that they're using the exact same ones.  Considering the importance of cooling and complete lack of warranty on the hardware, it should be a bit concerning to people that the fan is just whatever they could find for the cheapest solution and threw it in there.  Maybe they switched out the fans for the new line of products but probably not.

Hey, fun fact!  Did you know I'm one of newegg's new certified hardware testers/reviewers?

I get the impression that they are putting more chips in the same space. While the power consumption of the single form-factor is going down slightly, it will still need a fan for cooling.  The ASIC single will burn 60W, where the FPGA single burned 80W (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114307.0).

Light bulbs don't need forced air because they run at a high enough operating temperature to radiate any waste heat away. CFL bulbs will qucikly burn out in enclosed fixtures designed for incandecent bulbs, despite drawing a fraction of the power: because their operating temperature is only 40°C.

I wonder if the Jalapenos will be totally locked down as far as overclocking.  I mean they don't have a hardware warranty at all so they don't care if you melt them :P but I have a feeling not only are they less chips but they're a bit underclocked.  That's not real cost efficient but if they had a design and it exceeded USB power, then they had to lower it and underclocking was cheaper than redesigning it, I could see that.  But anyway, any chip can run faster :D So if people hack it to put a better 12V source into it than USB power from a motherboard, I wonder if they'll have sufficient control to get it to 5,500 GH/s or something.  It certainly wouldn't take much more cooling.

Can't say I LOVE them,but they are offering the best deal & the ROI is much better than anyone else,for now.

I bought thier FPGA Single back in march & it's great!!! So it stands to reason thier next product will be even better.

I don't care about thier emploee's history.............I care about getting the best bang for my buck,period.

If I want drama,I'll watch TV around 8:00pm or the news.

So they underestimated,haven't you?? It ain't the end of the world dude..................

or 5 volts, whatever their preference, rofl.

For the record, all CPUs in computers run at 12V with that separate 4 pin (or 8 pin) hookup on the motherboard.  All FPGAs I've ever seen run on a 12V power adapter.  I believe BFL may have stated that all other models than the Jalapeno will use a 12 volt power adapter.  Also high flow 80mm fans typically run on 12V and it has those.  I forgot USB was 5V for a second but it stands to reason that since it's the same exact chip structure as the Single, it probably takes that 5V and uses one of those voltage increasing coil thingies to get it to 12V to actually power the chip.  So if you were to overclock one, you'd probably feed in a 12V power source after the voltage increasing coil thingy so it's one less component to fry.  Of course nobody has any idea what voltage the chip actually uses once the power actually reaches the chip.

Just FYI, 12v fans can also run on less than 12v pretty easily.  Back in the day I used to swap the ground with 5v in the molex connector to silence fans (so they got 7v).  5v probably too low for a fan designed to run on 12v, but there are plenty of 5v fans out there as well.

You never spliced the ground the the -5V for faster RPM?!

This.


Resist the urge to be a fanboy of any company.  Think critically in situations where you pay someone for goods/services.  Your payment is their reward - nothing else is owed - including future allegiance. 

So,your telling me who I SHOULD like & not like.Hmmm,very democratic of you two.

I do not mind anyone bringing to light shady persons or practices,its a good thing.

But the extreme negativity of some of your posts is unacceptable.

Carry on,I always have this on:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h148/Bigblock462/Flameretardentsuit.jpg

Are you new to BTC or something?  Why are you so positive?  You have to assume everyone is out to get you, everyone is a scammer, and everything will go sour...like for example, pirateat40's investments or GLBSE or Tradehill or the price of BTC or bitcoinica or that one marketplace thing that got severely hacked or MTGox getting hacked or that last exchange that just got hacked or big name users' wallets getting stolen (I know of at least 4) or certain companies' CEOs turning out to be criminals  :D or wallet-stealing viruses or this forum getting hacked.  That's about 1/3 of the examples I know of.

Oh come on. You've never once trusted someone else with your BTC? You've never used escrow to buy something? You've never sent coins first? Running the entire bitcoin network on the basis that every single person out there is trying to steal your wallet.dat sounds like a nightmare. Sure people out there are scammers, but not everyone. And with some caution, you'll never run into them. I use escrow when I can, but when I started trading here there were times when I sent first, and trusted that the more well-known seller to ship after payment. A complete lack of trust will get you nowhere. And in spite of all the ranting and ravings, I've never seen anything from BFL that would make me not trust them.

So their CEO willingly participating in fraud before and them being off by 400% on their last performance or wattage numbers for their last series of devices which also came out months later than they stated doesn't concern you?  I do think they're going to ship out somewhat working devices and somewhat on time but for all the people who were like "give em a break!  Why are you investigating them? Why's everyone so suspicious? Be nice to them," ummm, yeah...no.

And yes, I have trusted 1 company once with an important BTC transaction but they have a gigantic record of not ripping people off and dozens of positive reviews.  Other than that, nope :P

I joined this forum only 13 days before you  ;D But started mining in early june of 2011 with 2 6950's.


Because I've been to the bottom,the very bottom....I was a drunk & a drug addict that thought living in the woods was a great way to have more money for drinking & drugging  ::)

Until you've been where I've been,you'll NEVER know how good you have it..................

I've been clean for 16+ years & life is AWESOME,a fantastic adventure with ups & downs,I just had learn to accept those ups & downs & make the best of them.

I've been to Costa Rica to get my dental work done,very cheaply & great quality & A FANTASTIC vacation for 1/3 of it would have cost here in the US 8)

I've built my own "hotrod",a 79 Trans Am with a 454 big block chevy with 500+ hp.It aint pretty yet,but god is it fast & fun  8)

I taught myself PC building,so I could play UT GOTY on the best PC for the least amount of cash back in 2000,I build & ship gamer rigs around the country now & do PC repair for extra cash.

Anything that sounds too good to be true usually is,thats why I don't get caught up in the BS of GREED...........................(pirateat40's investments or GLBSE,etc....)

I have been hacked on Mt Gox,I got 40 BTC stolen because my password was too easy,lesson learned.But,I'm still here mining away & I think Bitcoin is going to be something someday.What?? I don't know,my crystal ball is USB powered & I don't think its getting the proper amperage to see that far into the future  :D

It's way too easy to see the negative side of things,so I take the hard road & try see things in the best possible light.

I feel sorry for folks like yourself who can never see the "silver Lining" or that the glass is half full.

BFL's past performance wasn't "stellar" by any means,but thier FPGA Single did turn out pretty good & has the best ROI of ANY FPGA.There are more positive reviews than negative,just check the forum.....


As for the fiasco with thier CEO,I can see past that & only hope he learned from it.Its not like he is the sole owner & can run with the money or BTC or anything...........

I don't think his involvement was as big as everyone thinks.He didn't start the scheme,it was running for many,many years before he got into it,from what I've read.

Anyhow,keep digging dirt,we need that.

But,the passion you have for hating BFL seems over the top.I'm not saying "be nice to them",just be a little more "subtle",not sure that's the right word..........

BFL has been their own worst enemy. Most people are quite reasonable if you're upfront with them. The community should have found out about sonny's "colorful libertarianism" from BFL themselves.

So close, but so far. Most high power chips run at about 1.5 Volts these days. You get less power draw with every bit-flip. The 12V connection is for the high current 1.5V power supply placed as close to the chip as possible. You would need large heavy cable to move 1.5V at 40 Amps (assuming 60 watts). At 12V, a 60W load draws only 5 amps. If the resistance of the power supply is only 0.1 Ohms, 40 amps corresponds to a voltage drop of 4 volts.