Bitcoin Forum

http://blog.bitpay.com/img/copay-1-released.jpg

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Copay: Open Source HD-Multisig Bitcoin Wallet – 1.0 Released for iOS, Android, Windows Phone, Chrome, Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux

Official website: https://copay.io/ (https://copay.io/)

One year ago, we set out to build a bitcoin wallet secure enough for our company’s funds. After a year of beta testing and use, we’re releasing the first version of Copay...

Complete blog post: http://blog.bitpay.com/2015/06/03/copay-released.html (http://blog.bitpay.com/2015/06/03/copay-released.html)

CoPay is supporting Bitcoin QT or Bitcoin XT ?

It is not like that.  They will support which ever version is implemented.  There won't be two chains, nor will there be double coins or anything silly like that.  The end user doesn't really need to worry about anything, except maybe a wallet software upgrade if it is needed.

Of course, both supported, no possible way of only one being supported ;)

I really like CoPay's decentralized multi-sig implementation.   Or at least the idea of it.   I am presently evaluating using it in my business to support a two step payment workflow consisting of:

1) Sally prepares a payment to Bob.
2) Jim reviews the payment and either authorizes or declines.

( This mirrors existing online banking functionality. )

In this scenario, Sally works for Jim, and Jim has ultimate responsibility for the funds.

Ok, this seems simple enough at first:  It could be a 2 of 2 or 2 of 3 wallet, for example.  ( with the 3rd key being an offline backup, held by Jim. )

But now what happens when Sally decides to leave the company and Ellen is hired to replace her?

Ideally Jim would be able to revoke Sally's key and issue a new key for Ellen.

But as far as I know, there is no provision for key revocation in bitcoin.  right?

Ok, so maybe we just ignore Sally's key and will never authorize a transaction initiated by Sally.

( and I see no technical reason why Sally could not be removed from the wallet for future transactions. )

But we still need a new key for Ellen.   And our wallet was created as a fixed 2 of 3.

So is there a way to add new participants/keys to a copay wallet?

Or more generally, I would like to know if the CoPay team has thought about this practical matter, and how they recommend for users to deal with key management when personnel change.

If I'm not mistaken, the only possibility at present is to create a new wallet for Jim and Ellen, then transfer the funds to it.   But that is gross for various reasons, not least because the transaction history gets spread across wallets.

I have been using copay from some time and so far I haven't had any issues, I did have some concerns which I have expressed and OP confirmed that they will address those in future. I don't know how to compile it etc. on linux and it would be great if copay was available in ubuntu repositories.

Is this the "official" Copay Wallet thread on BitcoinTalk for support and development discussion? 

I've already looked around a little, but it's not really clear where the main place to talk about Copay is: actually I really like this wallet and I've been using it more lately, BUT I have a couple gripes about the most current version release.

So, where do you guys think the best place to discuss that stuff (and hopefully get problems fixed) would be?

BTW I realize copay is open source, github etc, but unfortunately I'm not a coder so I'd need someone more skilled than me to submit any changes to fix the problems I've seen...

Yeah, this is the technical discussion section, you can express your concerns here. I myself have been using for a while now (not regularly) but updated to the latest version a couple of days back. It has minor changes from the previous one, the fees can be adjusted to priority, normal or economy, there is a button to send all the funds in the wallet, I am sure there are other changes too but I haven't had time to check them all out.

So if you have found some bugs and/or problems, tell them here and they will hopefully try to fix them in the next update.

OK twister, thanks.

The reason I came looking for a Copay support site is just 'cuz of the new version released today.

I understand the need for the new "dynamic fees" feature but honestly I'd prefer if it was left alone the way it was, i.e. with just simple settings for .00005 or .0001 or .0005 etc.

These dynamic fee wallets are a pain in the ass since you never quite know what your remaining balance is gonna be after sending a transaction.  

Cutting the fee out into the fifth and sixth decimal place just leaves a lot of messy DUST, IMHO... and I usually prefer to TRY and keep my bitcoin balance at whole numbers, sending fractions to another wallet, and/or at least trying to keep just two or three decimal places on most balances.

This isn't just being "anal" either, LOL... I do this so that I can easily REMEMBER what a wallet's balance WAS so that next time I open that wallet it'd be very CLEAR if the amount was hacked or something changed.

So, for a variety of reasons I really just don't like the dynamic fee thing: Would it be reasonable in the NEXT version of Copay to add a fourth choice for the fee setting, maybe to just let advanced users MANUALLY set the fee to a usual .0001 or .0005 (perhaps with a simple sanity check so noobies can't send their whole bitcoin away as "fee" by mistake)...

I hope so, in the meantime I'm going to stick with the .12 version on my iPhone and Macbook (the Windows chrome version has already auto-updated, so unfortunately I'm stuck with it there for now.  I can still use it for receiving, etc but will have to remember to only SEND from phone/mac).

Oh, also on the MAC version the functions for COPY/PASTE of bitcoin address in Copay don't seem to work, right click = nothing available (you have to manually use the keyboard ctrl-c ctrl-v which works okay).

That's the only other "bug" that I noticed, but you guys are probably already aware of that one...

P.S. {Edit} Okay I realized I could open a free github account just to post bug reports or feature requests, wasn't aware of that before, thought it was just for contributing actual CODE.

So I've opened an issue for this on there: https://github.com/bitpay/copay/issues/3111

Hope this helps :)

P.P.S. Here's a simulated screenshot, kinda what I'm thinking of... would like to see something like this in next version:

Bitcoin transaction fees are not static. Bitcoin fees depend on your transaction size, coin age etc... Setting same fee for all transaction is not a good idea. If you are okay with paying a fee more than you need to pay, then using 0.0005BTC as fee for all transaction is fine. Using dynamic fees will reduce your expense. I am for dynamic fee with an option to set custom fee.

Hi Muhammed, thanks for reply.


I understand and agree that a single *fixed* set fee isn't the best.  

I liked the choice as per Copay's .2 version, but now I really don't like how dynamic fees are cutting into 5 and 6th decimal place bitcoin DUST.  

Furthermore I strongly suspect that ending up with these weird leftover dust amounts is very confusing to new users: not knowing what your account balance will end up being after sending any given transaction (even if it's only a few fractions of a cent worth) is very bad user interface design.

Bitcoin needs to be easy and clear and understandable for normal human users, not just tech geeks, if it's ever going to grow beyond the cool nerd toy market.

This kind of "technically good" but "UI-bad" design change is not helping.



Yes, possibly over a couple hundred transactions the saved dust will add up to, what? A few dollars?

LOL I'd rather pay that over a year of use of my wallet in order to have a better more pleasant UI experience: much rather set a pending dynamic fee of 0.000115 to 0.0002 manually, get the balance result that I expect and plan to see, and NOT end up with the messy DUST bitcoin balance!



Thanks for backing up my idea anyway... for whatever reason: I just believe that more CHOICE and *control* (even hidden under an "advanced" user section) -- even if the default for ordinary users is left as this Dynamic Fee system -- should always be an acceptable improvement.

Taking away that control and choice from .2 version to this new .3 version has been IMHO a step backwards for Copay :(  -- which is otherwise rapidly becoming my favorite bitcoin wallet :)

Hmm... seems like I'm not really gettin' much support on this: disappointed that one of the devs set my GitHub report on it to "lowprio"  :'(

Yeah okay I get it that maybe a lot of people don't care so much on something so small, i.e. just bitcoin dust etc worth a few cents?  Big deal, right?   Wot u goin' on about, man?  LOL

But, c'mon people!  Anyone ought to agree with me that having the CHOICE and CONTROL over how the wallet software SPENDS YOUR MONEY, at least to remain EQUAL to all other competing wallets (that may not have the dynamic fee feature, BUT still let you manually set your preferred miner fee, i.e. blockchain etc)... is necessary for Copay, IF we all want Copay to *really* become the BEST wallet software!  AmIRite?

It can't be just me seeing it this way... so HEY, anyone reading this who agrees, even just "in principle": I'd appreciate some support over there in the GitHub thread, to get this fixed in next Copay version:

 https://github.com/bitpay/copay/issues/3111

P.S. {Edit, Update} Thanks for the +1 Muhammed, much obliged :) 
Now, c'mon, anyone else?  Can't REALLY be just ME that's bugged so much by this... ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

I just started using copay today and it seems fantastic the iOS app is clean and simple. The only worry I have is that is copay just randomly shutdown, am I able to open my wallet somewhere else. I'm concerned because I'm not given the private keys

There's a pending issue open on github about being able to extract or export the private keys, as well as simply SEE all of a wallet's addresses.

My main complaint with Copay is *still* the thing about not being able to manually over-ride the miner fee but these other points are important too.  Since last post above I've gotten a little more support over there about the miner fee issue but could still use a little more ;)

Not sure about the random shutdown thing, have not seen that myself...

P.S. Surprised that this thread isn't more active, Copay really *IS* the best and cleanest cross-platform wallet project I've seen anywhere so far, really needs more people to use and support it.  Tell Your Friends!! :)

I want to cross-post the info below here as well as it's already in the GitHub issue page just because I think it's a significant demo of WHY the manual fee feature is needed, more-so than just why I already complained about it above.

This is really "functional" not just cosmetic or "preference" for keeping bitcoin dust under control...

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In case the dev's still need more proof, here's another real-world example of how Copay NOT having manual control over miner fee is a total FAIL in real-world actual USE, vs. just "theory" of perfect fee calculation algorithm.

One of the bitcoin gaming sites that I occasionally like to fool around on offers a very nice "zero confirmations" feature for deposits. This means they credit your account balance instantly as soon as transaction is sent rather than make you wait for confirms before you can start playing.

Unfortunately, they've recently become subject to some kind of double spend attack which has required them to suspend this feature for certain deposit transactions that have normal or low miner fee: here's what you get instead of zero confirm instant deposit in these cases:

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/13903392/9579058/6d5580a0-4fbd-11e5-9a24-8e1839d5290e.png

(I'm not sure exactly how this mitigates the double spend attack, but whatever... that's the solution).

Basically, what this means is that for JUST these transactions, ONLY sometimes, not always, when I WANT to put an extra few cents on the fee in order to be sure I'm forcing this transaction to trigger the BENEFIT of this particular site's very nice zero confirmation feature... I simply have to be able to manually put minimum 0.0005 as miner fee.

Otherwise even using Copay's "priority" dynamic fee it's only gonna be like 0.000268 (current value) and my transaction WON'T qualify for the zero-confirmation benefit.

If I'm sending $20 twenty bucks into a game to play a little video poker for ten cents a spin or so... the extra ten cents cost for FEE is well worth it to me, in order NOT to have to wait 10+ minutes to play. For example, sometimes I may like to do this with only ten or fifteen minutes "break in my day" available: having to WAIT for confirmation time totally defeats the purpose, have to just take the money back out again, wasting time and wasting two miner fees (in and out).

See: IT'S MY TEN CENTS to choose to spend HOW I LIKE on extra miner fee or not... and the software must allow ME to make that decision, and not arrogantly force me to use some "ideal algorithm" fee calculation, just because the programmer likes the code or whatever   ::) 

Without manual control over fee value, this transaction is a TOTAL FAIL for Copay.

To make it work right, in this situation, I have to use another, worse wallet like blockchain.info (ugh)... and srsly I don't think that's what you Copay devs want, is it??

This needs to be fixed in Copay proper, not in some new fork version.

Please update this on "Next Release" and not "lowprio"...!!!

copay is honestly the best, cleanest wallet. they let you extract your extended private key also. read the first paragraph about backups on their github

Hmm still not much traffic here on this thread, really surprising to me that Copay isn't more popular around here. It really IS a very good wallet, even "so far" being ONLY early version 1.x release!

Try it out, you guys... srsly you'll like it :)

OTOH I'm still disappointed that my BUG report on the lack of manual fee control isn't getting more support.  ::)

The latest version 1.2.5 has some nice new features *but* personally I still have to stick to mainly the .2 version JUST to avoid being forced into the IMHO annoying dust-including automatic fee generation.

It's really irritating to NOT have precise control over the mining fee amount!!! 

C'mon guys: fix this NEXT release!!!

WE NEED AN ADVANCED-USER MANUAL FEE CONTROL OVER-RIDE FEATURE!!!

P.S. As an aside, am I exposing my bitcoin to any kind of risk by using different VERSIONS of the Copay wallet on different platforms/devices?  Currently I have the latest release 1.2.5 running via the Chrome plugin on one laptop, but I'm sticking to the 1.1.2 old version on my iPhone and MacBook laptop.

Is there anything I need to be aware of while doing this to NOT lose my bitcoin???

I've used the wallet and I like it, especially how secure it can be along with it's features.

Finally gettin' a little traction on my complaining about manual miner fee control, LOL   :P

https://github.com/bitpay/copay/pull/3235

Could probably still use more support though, to get it actually *merged* some day... hope hope.

Again, anyone reading this IF you agree with me, please pipe up and say something over there!

Copy/Pasting this here too: need more input from PUBLIC to get this done!

-snip-

OK folks, we've got IMHO a nice bounty started off on this now:  https://synapsi.com/bb/97/41/1a/ed/5bbbcd2e24fd53674e6037f9.png
https://synapsi.com/questions/manual-override-dynamic-fee-in-copay-wallet-201509252351

We're actually at BTC 0.7251 bitcoin so far -- currently worth about $175

Plus there's been a little work started on it now by dabura667: https://github.com/bitpay/copay/pull/3235

So, let's hear more comments please: does anyone really believe this *shouldn't* be added to Copay?  Why not? IS there really any downside to allowing advanced-user manual fee setting?  I srsly can't think of anything significant enough, so really wanna see this in NEXT version, guys: all of us real-world actual users of Copay need it out here  ;D

-snip-

my only question about this.

Lets say I start a major investment group. I fund thousands of btc into the wallet and allow others who are investing too also join in by creating a user.

We would all agree when to send out funds for project ideas.

What if one day one of the users decides to blackmail the group into sending the funds to him or else he will never approve payments which would put the money at a freeze.

Well Bob if something like that happened it would hardly be the WALLET software's fault, LOL.

Your problem there isn't trusting the software or using the 'trustless' basis of a currency system like bitcoin but rather having trusted a HUMAN to behave correctly in your business structure.

Ain't no technology or software that's gonna be able to fix THAT.

That could happen and which is why you should be very careful on what people you choose for the multisig wallet but even if one person tries to do this, he won't be able to freeze the funds if the wallet is 2-of-3 multisig, means you only need 2 out of the 3 keys to send the transaction, so for ex. You, Jack and Jill are the co-signers of the multisig and Jill decides to act selfish then You and Jack can take the funds out of that wallet.

I've been testing Copay and was pleasantly surprised how well it works. Since the latest version it 's one of the best wallets out there, and the support for all major platforms is a big plus. Kudos to team Copay!

One question though: I happen to run a firewall on my laptop, and whenever I open the Copay wallet, it wants to connect to bitpay.com and bws.bitpay.com. Why's that?

I assume (and hope) my wallet is stored locally, and only under my laptop's control. But when I refuse the connection, it won't open the wallet. Maybe it's just something trivial, but it would REALLY help in terms of independence and trustworthiness, if a local wallet would not rely on some extrernal 3rd party.

Copay works very well, looks slick too. It's a pretty new wallet AFAIK, only heard alot about it recently.

The only problem I have is one or two crashes randomly on the mobile app, but it's not too much of a worry to me.

never had any crashes with it. love the multisig and co-signer feature.

That's the server it connects to, to sync with blockchain and broadcast the transactions, since it is a lite wallet and doesn't downloads the whole blockchain.

I've never had it crash either. The user experience is great, which is why we decided to build an automated cosigner for the Copay wallet. With sig3.io the user sets up their own policies, such as a per transaction limit, and Sig3 automatically cosigns transactions below the limit in a 2 -3 wallet. Makes using the multisig feature easy and secure. Try it out.

I tried using Copay a long time ago, when it was still beta.  I loved the material design on my android and it worked great.  I was a little hesitant at that time to use it for too much bitcoin, just because it was new (I didn't experience any particular problems).  I think I'll give it another go now that it has taken the test of time.  It is a beautiful and intuitive wallet.