Bitcoin Forum

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether Bitcoin is more like Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme.

Whatever it is, though, it isn't a currency. It's a tech stock. Each Bitcoin is really a share in a system that seems to make it cheaper to transfer things online - money, stocks, bonds, even the deed to your house - by cutting out the middleman. Well, kind of. Bitcoin doesn't remove the middleman so much as replace him with middlemen who don't make you pay much, but make society as a whole do so instead. Is this progress?

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And the final conclusion is "The future might not belong to Bitcoin, but it should to its technology."




http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11462977

Seems to be the new approach by main stream media: Bitcoin - boo! Blockchain - yay!

Yes, I have read the article. And even though I dislike the article & its negative tones about Bitcoin, I do see the author's point (and it has been brought up before). I.e.- Person A plans on not spending their Bitcoin because they hope the price will increase in the future and they'll be rich, so they let person B spend theirs. Person B does the same thing and doesn't spend any of their BTC, and the economy dries up because of no people spending it.

However, I disagree because I love to spend BTC and do it all the time! It is a streamlined, non-invasive way of buying everything, and you often find cheaper prices listed for goods compared to higher prices for Credit Card & PayPal, because of the processing fees the vendor has to pay with cards. I find it beneficial and enjoyable to spend BTC, and I still believe it will increase in price in the future. So if the price increases any BTC holdings I have will be worth more, and I still helped the BTC
 economy along the way.



I agree, everybody is taking about blockchain technology now that they have finally noticed it. I still think any discussion of blockchain tech. is positive for BTC though, it's just more and more overall exposure.  8)

Agree with this! A lot of applications are built on the blochchain concept! Like Nasdaq are considering to integrate blockchain technology to its trading platform, Hyperledger, colored coin, sidechains etc 

yet they fail to understand that those two work together and they are inseparable, unless they want to build their own fork with a different, yet more shitty(very probable) coin than bitcoin

their fud will not touch anybody anymore, but only those that don't know anything about bitcoin, which are becoming less and less every new day

Once new innovation comes out, ppl can like or dislike it and have their own valid reasons. Never mind time will tell everything.

That is probably because of two reasons:
The ones behind these news are late to the party and are trying to accumulate cheap coins.
The ones behind these news are trying to create their own crypto currency.

good luck disconnecting the blockchain from the mining infrastructure as a scheme ...unless you want to spend .what is it 6 years or so making your own
blockchain and/or coin tokens etc or just use the existing large worldwide bitcoin blockchain (or heck litecoin blockchain for that matter)

so yeah re-invent the wheel and/or expect the blockchain now to run w/o compensation in BTC to the people mining and keeping the infrastructure up

sheesh...reporting is dead these days

 

personally i dont like those articles with that type of negative feelings about our BTC, but this is obvious.

now seems like ppl are diverting attention to blockchain instead the whole thing, maybe is a good movement from the elite to distract us? :P

I don't know whether the author did even consider bitcoin as a currency in the first place where you can actually use it and spend rather than treating it as purely investment.

The author assumes that everybody holds on to their coins hoping that price will increase someday to be able to sell off and for it to happen there must be new buyers and so that's how he arrive to that conclusion on ponzi scheme. But nevertheless, all of that arguments were never taken into account if bitcoin as a currency did function as it was intended to be for example to facilitate cross border transaction and such, so I would say it's rather unfair to label bitcoin as a scam.

I dig this guy's assessment -

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-14/global-macro-investor-interview-raoul-pal

'Bitcoin’s block chain is essentially the world’s biggest ledger. It’s unique because ledges work like you record the buy, I record the sell, that’s how it works; but with bitcoin you record the buy, I record the sell and he records both transactions. So it’s a tri-party ledger and that means that it’s a much more robust system. If you go bankrupt there’s somebody else who can prove what has happened.

So it’s a proof of ownership system and it’s enormous. It is by far the largest thing since the development of the internet in terms of the amount of computing power used. And we can put anything on the block chain, like house documents, insurance documents, whether there’s need to be proof of that contract’s existence.

But the real value by far is going to be the global securities and custody industry, because that is where the rotting heart of the leverage lies – where collateral is reused 20-30 times without you even realizing. If you own some US government bonds, you don’t realize that they get used 40 times by everybody else in the system. Your bonds that you own and that you bought.

But with the block chain we can move the entire securities industry onto this ledger system where it will be monitored and kept and stored in real time. So you will never get into a situation like Lehman where nobody knew who owned what assets. And to own a part of the block chain you have to pay in bitcoins and that’s why it has a real value, ignoring the transactional elements, which are also interesting. This is the big deal, it is revolutionary to the world of finance'


I'm not massively sold on it as the idea of a currency still. As the backbone of finance and notary systems it makes more sense.

As we've seen repeatedly, lots of people are getting boners for the blockchain. I can foresee them becoming comfortable with seeing bitcoin as the gateway to blockchain access rather than a separate entity.

Only because there is no bank Bitcoin became a scam? Only because the price will rise and some people, not everyone, will profit from it?
I'm a enthusiast and want it to worth more but I use it, bought tons of things no matter the price.

Also, the pollution item is such a BS. The banks needs tons of data centers split across the world, those things consumes a lot of electricity aswell.

"The scam called Fiat"

The longest running scam in history of mankind.

I read somewhere that in the future ATMs will come with a printing machine attached.. Just BYO paper..

Haha, you are so right here. I wonder: are writers of these articles completely oblivious to facts, uneducated or just want to discredit bitcoin? Do they know that in a Ponzi Scheme,
the founders persuade investors that they will profit for SURE. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee, you can lose your money. Also there is no central entity, just individuals building a decentralized network and economy.

WTF? This Matt O'Brien guy again? I just read some half-a-dozen or so anti-Bitcoin articles in the Washington Post authored by this guy, and now it seems that he is authoring articles for the New Zealand Herald as well. A trans-continental anti-Bitcoin author? Who is really sponsoring this idiot? I am not ready to blame Jeff Bezos, as he seems to be a genuine guy...

Some of the articles authored by him:

The Atlantic:

Bitcoin Is No Longer a Currency (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/bitcoin-is-no-longer-a-currency/274859/)
Why Bitcoin Will Never Be a Currency (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/12/why-bitcoin-will-never-be-a-currency-in-2-charts/282364/)
Bitcoin Is the Segway of Currency (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/bitcoin-is-the-segway-of-currency/281625/)

Washington Post:

Bitcoin isn’t the future of money — it’s either a Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/08/bitcoin-isnt-the-future-of-money-its-either-a-ponzi-scheme-or-a-pyramid-scheme/)
Bitcoin revealed: a Ponzi scheme for redistributing wealth from one libertarian to another (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/14/bitcoin-is-revealed-a-ponzi-scheme-for-redistributing-wealth-from-one-libertarian-to-another/)

New Zealand Herald:

Matt O'Brien: The scam called Bitcoin (http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11462977)

This article is poorly written and shows a severe lack of research into the topic.  It is either clickbait or blatant trolling.  I wish people writing these things would take five or ten minutes to read something about bitcoin, instead of just making stuff up on the spot. 

Clickbait, I think I am going with clickbait on this one.

In my opinion its a commodity like precious metals. 

Not really a stock, because there is no central company.

The article isn't that great.

Yes and people who are not aware about the new innovation or who dislikes the new innovation especially the older generation they will definitely say that it is a scam as they are not willing to learn new things.

A blockchain without coins would not be decentralized because nobody would care

Exactly bitcoin is not a scam and if it would be scam it would not be alive since last 6 years and people would never start adopting and accepting it if it would be a scam. Some articles are only created to divert the mind of the people.

It's an opinion piece not reporting, and the author obviously hates BTC. I use the comparison of cell phones when I see this sort of shortsighted FUD. Everybody hated mobile phones when they and out (in the1980s) there was no end of negativity. Op-Ed pieces decrying cellular phones as unecesary and obnoxious, a terrible idea that would never catch on. Look where that got them. Save these articles, it will be fun defaming the authors in years to come... I still have a copy of Rolling Stone from the 90s with a cover showing Limp Biscuit declaring them "the Future of Rock" ... Idiots

well bitcoin has a bank name blokhain lol as shares from companies those get a profit or a loss bitcoin has that the same way the diference is that is bitcoin

the financial elite are growing concerned about Bitcoin .. likely you will see more articles like this appearing as the price goes up and as mainstream adoption increases

And we need this types of articles to publish more then only people will start knowing it and start adopting it and it is in the benefit of the users of bitcoin no matter what so ever is published bitcoin will gain more attention.

That's true, and it makes me believe that all this is coming from the same source, or are news sites copying each other constantly..
The fact that they support the blockchain technology means that they clearly like bitcoin's idea aswel, but maybe they just don't want to buy in now when the price is higher,
maybe they want to create another altcoin of their own..

cheers

That's what makes me suspicious. I am yet to see a spike in the exchange rates, and the adoption rate has gone down in the past 5-6 months. Many of the Bitcoiners are getting bored due to the lack of momentum. There has been no big news on the Bitcoin sector for the past one year or so. Then why should the financial elite worry about Bitcoin, all of a sudden?

if he love blockchain, then why he so hate bitcoin, interesting  ;)

i agree with you

for me, bitcoin and other altcoin is like a stock market which you can invest on
but i don't think it is just a ponzi scheme because bitcoin is very easy to use and also the cheapest and fastest way i know on how to send money

http://www.americanbanker.com/news/bank-technology/nasdaq-signals-confidence-in-bitcoin-not-just-the-blockchain-1074405-1.html

You need to read articles like that, then maybe understand that a blockchain without sufficient mining power is worthless.

In fact, I have thought of this before I joined bitcoin. I thought that bitcoin was just some matter of numbers, and mining bitcoin is easy because it only requires a computer and I will get rich after I do that... However after I join bitcoin, I found that mining of bitcoin is extremely hard (which I was mislead by medias that it is easy), and the system is more than just numbers. Bitcoin is a secure system, so it MUST NOT be a scam.

In my opinion its a commodity like precious metals.

Not really a stock, because there is no central company.

The article isn't that great. Who published it Ohh Mr Matt O'Brien.He doesn't know what is Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme.

Pretty much this is the shortest and the best explanation. Without incentive of monetary gratification blockchain technology only can be backed by centralized entity with tremendous processing power,
without decentralized structures we are just giving power in the hands of financial institutions again. Only fools would want that to happen.

Mainstream media is still doing the mental work in processing bitcoin and the possibilities of such a new thing like crypto currency.

they forget that bitcoin is actually something useful, apart from the speculation behind it, how they can even think of comparing it to any scam or ponzi

when it is obvious that the technology used by bitcoin is something revolutionary, even nowadays, they are just another bunch of delusional who missed the 2009-2010 train

These articles are always written by totally clueless people about Bitcoin, which in this case can't really blame them, but what grinds my gears is when it's made by people with agendas that purposely try to kill BTC with their fud content, which is obviously not workin by the way.

It's starting to look like a deliberate smear campaign on his part.  Maybe if enough people start writing "Matt O'Brien is either a clueless hack or a paid shill" (he clearly doesn't need any evidence for his claims, so why should we?) everywhere his name appears, search engines will start to equate the terms.  Particularly if the sites where his "articles" (if you can call them that) are published have comments sections.  Discredit the discreditors.

those guy wanna get the attention that bitcoin has ,and he is geting a bit of it atleast looks like why a person would try to face alone a comunity that isnt soo big and isnt so small

Yes and I think this article related to bitcoin is just an bullshit. They just want an attention from the society and they also want to distract the minds of the people who are actually willing to opt Bitcoin as a currency So they just want to divert the mindset of the people by publishing this useless article.

The blockchain is excellent foundational protocol, once blocksize issues are resolved it does tend to have a bias towards concentration due to the increasing filesize requirements to run full nodes over the network as the number of transactions increase and are logged throughout the network hence the blockchain, but it's not the large issue as it can be resolved someday through side-chains to split the load amongst different clients, but as mentioned its the technology that matters and that can be improved well into the future.

And some of the best investments I've made is to spend my Bitcoins ha-ha (Given the exchange rate over the last year leverage ^^)

Same old, same old.
A couple decades ago it was "Internet - boo! Intranet - yay!"

It's just the latecomers saying:
Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain! ;)

\
Lol..Exactly was the same case with Internet when it was just introduced to the people across the globe, No one entertain it and said it would not resist for a longer time but today we all know what impact Internet has on individual, society and also the big corporates. It is impossible to survive without internet and one fine day same would be with Bitcoin.

Thats why i hated media,they always spread negative rumors about bitcoin and thats a brainwashing to people so that they're gonna stay away from bitcoin and never using it.

I'm 50 years old and have met many people. There is only one that I can say for sure that isn't "brainwashed".

Never fear when a negative article appears in the media. It's a not-so-well-kept secret in Hollywood that negative publicity only comes second to positive publicity.

Any news is supposedly good news.  Even if they end with the typical, "illegal", "money laundering," and "ponzi scheme" mantra that is in every mainstream BTC article.

the thing is to keep bitcoin alive on news even with bad or good news to it the thing is to show to the world that bitcoin keeps here and can wait for them as internet made on the last years ....

It's cool because he shows he has no idea about this and it's cool to see ignorant people talking about things they don't know

Finally a post I agree too, not entirely, but partly. I've huge respect and appreciation for Block chain, and not bitcoin in itself. I'm a staunch support of Etherium too, love the idea. Block chain is the future in my opinion, and from where I see it, it's bright and shiny.

Sounds like a clickbait article for ad money. Everyone's paying attention to bitcoin now, so it's not surprising.

"anyone read this article: The scam called Bitcoin?"

No, but I did read a blog post some time ago that might as well have been entitled "The scam called Nxt." Had the author of it not self-disclosed his identity, I would have been tempted to comment: "Is that you, Mr. Schiff?"

But I do have to say that reading that particular dithyramb did reinforce the point that we're all in this together. With that noted, I'll head back to the altcoin ghetto. 

well media works with money if you pay them to say someone made a shop of bitcoin,someone sold or bought a ferrari with bitcoin they would make it happen .... remember they got paid to do some articles...

This. There's also a ton of FUD in the general public about bitcoin in general. The media does a fantastic job portraying it as "illegal ponzi currency"

At first they say that everything is bad and a scam.

First light = bad, first car = bad, internet = bad

in 5 years Matt O'Brien will change his opinion, and he will cry later, to not jump on this revolution.

Very good point. It's either "scam" or "toy." Either "too good to be true" or "why would anyone in Realville use this?" Same old song...

we are in the mid of 2015 now. i will not read that. a waste of time.

gandhi quote would come in hand here, it is what they are exactly doing

bitcoin will win in the end, no matter how much they hate it or they want it to not succeed

Negative media doesn't matter nearly as much as the occasional positive stories about BTC:
The Flat Earth Society will reject Bitcoin, but a large group of wise investors will seek refuge from the tyranny of fiat money.

This article points out lots of negative in bitcoins. I really don't like this article. The title itself already tell it's content. Bitcoin isn't just a scam. I'm sure after many years the author will knee and ask himself "Why did I write this?" Bitcoin gives hope for others.

well they talk about a thing they didnt looked depply even if they had looked it otherwise wouldnt make sense to write such about a thing that almost dont know or searched about

It's proved if bitcoin is famous, awesome and a lot fans out there, when you have a fans always there are a haters.

http://wallpapersshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/mahatma-gandhi-quotes-with-images.jpg


~iki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJku_CSyNg  ;D

If this is ponzi it'd be the longest and most earned ponzi ever

well people shot everyplace trying to make head shot on the brain of peoples ,saying bitcoin isnt what it is really a coin and a payment processor powerful that ask a low fee between who sell and who buy.

How, you would be calling the naysayers are having the valid reason, they do not have such high value to validate the Bitcoin which made the real revolution in this digital world, there are lot of people who gave the hard effort at day and night times to give innovative things to the people around the world.

yes the developers till the moment made an amazing work and till the moment no one cant complaint some invested too many on the hope it break stars in worth like gold did in 30 years... it can happen but will be on slow time not in two years or less .