Bitcoin Forum

I have been monitoring buys and sells at:

http://bitcointicker.co/dashboard/

for a few days.

Just a short while I ago...I saw a buy for 100 BTC.  The price didn't even jump UP. 

What will it take for the price to climb??

What am I missing??

Last 24h trade volume was around 48000 bitcoins, one 100 bitcoin buy doesn't even make a dent...

Investing 100 bitcoins wont make the price move an inch. You might want to consider the transactions with 1000 bitcoins above. You can see plenty of those in blockchain.

When bter was hacked ~7000 BTC, who remembers did the price went up or down?

"if buying 100 BTC doesn't get the price to go up then what will"
A huge change in the market. The only time I have seen bitcoin move in a significant way is from big investors or a big dark market being taken down.

it depends on the exchange of course. but the largest exchanges don't move when some one buys or sell 100btc. it's too low. some times on bitfinex a 1000btc buy or sell won't do much.

...

Well my experience has been different...   :)

Every time I buy BTC, the price then goes down afterwards.  Same as when I buy gold or used to buy stocks.

They front-run me!  If I make ANY kind of trade, ask me, and take the other side of the bet...

You purchasing Bitcoin on such a small scale has nothing to do with the price. It's pretty much just bad luck. That goes the same for gold, stocks, ect.

100 btc is a very tiny amount, to even think of manipulating the market with it, you need x100 that at least, and maybe much more, also you need a costant flow of money, not only one time buy...

first you need to defeat the 2k coins(probably more) that are dumped from miners each day, so at least 2k per day to move something, i would say that if you keep buying 5k coins per day, you should be able to move it by few step each time

Well first of all it is a very big market. If there are 1000 sellers with each of them agree to offer 1 btc for sale at 240, a buyer that buys 100 btc probably won't make much of a difference because the selling price would still remain at 240 with the rest of the sellers still waiting to conclude their sales. Once the remaining 900 btc has been bought up the next lowest selling price would be for example 241 will we start to see the overall market selling price going up. This is just an illustration purpose with the numbers all made up.

probably you need to buy at least 4000 BTC for impacting on btc price  ???

If someone wants 100 coins, maybe someone else wants to hold 100 less. The price depends what is the strongest force. If the buyer really, really wants the coins, and the seller more reluctantly wants to sell, the price may go up. Opposite, if the seller really, really wants to rid himeself of coins, and the buyers sit on the fence, the price might go down.

It's all in the heads of the actors.

Haha, I know its sad to know that whenever you invest in something, its value falls down. We are living in a depressed economy mate. My advise is believe that you will invest money in any particular stock or gold, btc whatever for a long time. In the long term, investments benefit well, really well. Its all about time and calculating if its worth it.

you would impact it only for one day, then the dumping will kill you, you need a constant influx of new money to rise the market price, not a single little pump

also a surging of the price in one sit only, will just lead to a brutal dump, for the weak hands

some bots in mtgox manipulated the price in 2013. I am amazing .... how much bitcoins they had used to manipulate the market ?

some times they use a strategy which involve fake walls, to rise the price, whitout actually selling/buying anything

for example top seller is selling at 250 and top buyer is buying at 240, the top seller and top buyers are bot, the top seller rise his sell to 260, then the top buyers rise it to 250 and so on...

The amount you have invested is too low to cause a major change in the market, even if you multiply your initial amount by a 100, it will affect the market price for only a day. the market is too big to be affected so easily, it needs constant transfers and exchange of money to increase or a new trend/attention.

but, what about trading fees ? buying & selling repeatedly will cost nothing ? I think they only paid the fees to manipulate the market ?

The market can be affected with much more bigger exchanges, but only if these exchanges happen daily, the price level increases. It can only be possible through making people adopt to bitcoin. That's the beauty, baby.

trading fee are negligable, they are around 0.25% and with big volume like 5k btc per movements, they fall around 0.1%, so they lose 5 btc, which may look a tons of money for us, but not for someone that has 5k btc...

thank you for your valuable information ;D

I assume you are not a trader yourself because there are some false in your statements and I cant stand without correcting them ( no insult intended whatsoever)

To raise the price some whale manipulate the market by two ways which is to provide a buy wall ( not fake buy wall ) and create a panic buy environment. Providing solely just a fake wall isnt going to raise the price because this is not 2012 anymore and people are clever enough to identify this , most people call this as bullish . However if you create a panic buy then this will manipulate the current market, to create a panic buy merely it is only by making smaller buy wall and some constant buying (this involve buying BTC)

Without this, the market wont be moved. Price needs to be driven up by atleast at the range of $5 - $10 this will create panic buy in another exchanger because it is a great opportunity for arbitrage.
This is where buy walls are needed because once traders come they will start dumping on the walls but if the walls hold off then this will create massive panic buy among another exchanger because another whale will start on buying as well.
This is something like seawaves or tsunami , something starts from small but constantly moving will create something big in the end.

tl;dr of your mistake :

#1 Fake walls is when someone creates a bullish and it wont always be succesfull because we are not in 2012 anymore
#2 Buying BTC is needed, some sacrifice for the better good
#3 You are making your examples sounds like you are the only buyer and seller on the market ( second bolded part of your statement ) while this is not true at all

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No insult intended whatsoever, cheers

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Read above , you need atleast 10k BTC to be considered as a whale and thats a mini whale

100 BTC would make an impact if we were in the year 2030, but we are not. Right now that is a drop in the sea. I wouldn't obsess over monitoring buy/sell volume. There's lots of fake buys and sells everytime. The best you can do is mind about your own business, get your BTC, grow your stack, and keep believing on this amazing technology. Remember to NOT check the price daily to not obsess over it.

questionable because in the after 2030 the chance that bitcoin will rise again to un unbelievable level are much slim than the chances that it could rise from now to 2030 to an unimaginable level

basically better to get in as early as you can, you cna call this the second train

Due to it's mining reward schedule there's no reason for believing that bitcoin won't be price hyped. It all depends on what the owners of already mined coins will so,
if they start using massively bitcoin as store of value, market will be mostly moved by changes in the mining rewards, so doubling the price isn't even them impossible.

@op, 100btc is still rather small, since it's only ~ 25 000 USD, but when you see orders like this one happen 10 or 20 times within 24 hours, price will pick it up, but
isolated like this one you are mentioning, it get swallowed by rest of the trades without impacting the base price.


It's all relative, and you can't know for sure how much you need at some given time to move the price. Claiming you need 10k btc is nothing but a wild guess, like any other.

cheers

what i'm saying is that it won't keep rising indefinitely everytime, there must be a limit that will begin at some point, so the more you reach the total supply and adoption(on another note is that i don't really think we need to wait for the fee era for fully adoption, actually if it happen it will be much early than that) the less bitcoin will rise

If the price of each BTC has been rising atleast 5-10x of the current one by 2030 then this is reasonable amount however if you are planning to make an "impact" or "manipulate" the market then you need to know how to do it properly because having 10k BTC by that time would be useless if you dont know how to do it properly (read above for my post on how it is done)


Thats how manipulation affects the market. Volume is needed otherwise putting a huge wall on small volume market will be useless since it will be easily identified as a bullish


Sadly this dont applied to everyone as people might be soon to jump off the ship once we hit -10 % or so


Not claiming, based that on my past experiences. I was in a group of what you call as "pumper group" or whatever it is


I suspect around 60-80 % of mined coins goes to market , miners need to pay for their electricity as well

I assume that we are discussing about major exchanger here and so if you are not aware yet, impacting a small exchange will bring nothing but a harm to yourself .

Lets say that you decided to either buy or sell 100 BTC.

If you decided to buy 100 BTC then you will get nothing but a lost because once you bought the 100 BTC then you are suffering a loss as the buy order of that exchanger will still be the same ( you of course need to sell them back for profit as a trader ) because trader from small exchanger base their decision to buy or sell on the other major exchange

If you decided to sell 100 BTC then you are suffering a lost as well because I do believe that the buy order on that small exchange wont be able to hold of your 100 BTC . You will then sell below market rate and those who put on buy order on the lowest will get the higher return for this foolish act

tl;dr small exchanger price manipulation wont bring any impact to the major exchanger but it is vice versa

It's not that simple , if It was simple , most of people (early adopters) would be able to manipulate the price but nah only exchange can do that because they have shitload of BTC  :-\
however that amount will make chances in the next years and with the Bitcoin (from mining) decreasing

Sure u were buddy, and i'm the tooth fairy. Sign an address with even 100 btc, or stop bullshiting.


When miners are buying mining equipment, they're investing their money in hope for a good return, and same thing can be speculated that they are doing when
mining reward halving is to take place with keeping more and more of mined coins aside, also as an investment, hoping the price will go up at or around the time of halving.

imho miners and exchanges are the ones that can move the price the most, exchanges with keeping the fee in bitcoin, and miners with holding mined coins,
unlike those 100 btc in op question, these numbers are way higher.

cheers

At the time of speaking, 100btc bid will move the price up by $1.
https://www.bitstamp.net/market/tradeview/

OP will need to buy 1000btc at strategic times everyday for a few days to move the market by $10. In fiat terms, OP needs at least $2 million to have any real effect  ;D

When Mc Donalds adds bitcoin as a payment option at all their stores, the price of bitcoin will surely rise.  Seriously, though... the mere purchasing of an asset does not make it more valuable.  It has to be highly valuable already.  Bitcoin is valuable but it's arguable as to how much it's really worth today.  It's a highly contentious issue. 

100 btc doesn't get the price to go up, but if thousands of bitcoins are dealt, 'EVERYDAY' then yes it will definitely bring the price up.

What gets a price up and down in a strong amount is when major events happen such as a big buy of million of dollars, the end of a dark market, the fall out of something like Mt.Gox, events like Greece default and rumors of greece adopting bitcoin... Such shit makes price go crazy, the hype makes things happen and not just a 100 dollars man. There are 21 Million btc coins out there.

Make everyone in China buy a $100 worth of BTC the same day, that will get the price to spike.

100BTC is a verrrry small amount. I don't think you'll see any rise in the prices (if you do it would be minute) with 100BTC. You should go into thousands to get what you want. 2k -5k BTC would do it.

One hundred bitcoins isn't going to make a big difference, in fact, i wonder if it's going to make any difference. You should buy around 3k bitcoins in order to get what you wish to get. As of for now, nothing shall happen my friend.

Beh you are missing nothing. But you normally must have learned something. That transaction with 100 bitcoin is not enough to move the price of bitcoin in that exchange. This is a fact and one fact can give you knowledge about the trading with bitcoin in that exchange. You want to know what must the amount which can move the price. You have two choices. The first is that continue your monitoring and that someone buy more bitcoin (to much bitcoin) and then see if the price move. The second one is that you buy yourself big amounts of bitcoin since the moment you will be able to move in high the price.

Those are the advices of someone which know nothing from trading. If you wont to learn more you must find a trader who for sure will be able to teach you how grow up the price. This is my final advice and the best one.

100btc wont make a change.

But buying a bitcoin is the good movement. Everybody need to consider of buying some bitcoin. If everybody contribute into bitcoin price then the price will hit the sky. So, buying a 100BTC will give hope to your friends circle. Then it will spread in your office and their office. So, do it for God's sake.