Bitcoin Forum

Hi all.

I have been looking into buying land and farming for a while now and it looks like I'm going to go ahead and do it in Cambodia. (maybe Thailand and Missouri too at a later date)

Natural flooding. That is the only way I would go in this part of the world. Also there is not one piece of land that I have picked out. There is a rice farming area that I have in mind and will be going back there in 3 weeks to make a purchase. However I wanted to get some feedback on the asset idea to see if there was some significant interest. If so I might get a larger area and might be able to get a higher percentage of the rice yield.

Thank you.

Thanks for the link but I am talking about Cambodia not the USA. I have people who want to farm this land because they will make more than working in the Nike factory down the road... Should I tell them sorry I wont let you farm it after all cuz some guy on the internet said you were like slaves? Free market...

Indentured servitude in the name of the "free market" as a way for people to save themselves from other rapacious exploiters. It matters little what country it is. I suspect that you think this scheme would be easier to pull off in a place like Cambodia than the US or Europe precisely because they're currently more desperate. You're right about that.

I've never said or written this to anyone before: you are fucking scum.

Sharecropping is a word that has so many really negative connotations, especially in the USA, given our historical fuckage of other races.

At least getting away from that terminology and finding a new, respectful, term would, well, reduce the douche factor.

I'm not list on GLBSE.

Your investment is a relatively long term asset. you should provide liquidity to your investors on some time-framely matched infrastructure. I don't think GLBSE will last long enough to match your asset life time.

There are worries in other asset discussion thread that people who don't trust GLBSE ask the issuer think some back up plans when the GLBSE disappeared. GLBSE is a very centralized exchange. surely Nefario will meet some serious legal trouble later and the whole GLBSE shut down, most of the investors cannot prove that they hold a certain interest in your operation.

If you do this please do not list on GLBSE.

After talking with the guy who will odds are farm or manage the land 4 to 6% seems to be a more realistic return. (I will update OP)

This is not guaranteed but what should happen in an average year.

Also due to flooding in the area this year there are more sellers than buyers. Land should be able to be bought at free market prices for less than average.

Still no land has been bought at this time and I am still seeing if the community is interested in investing with me.

Thanks.

I guess being disgusted by people wanting to establish an indentured-servant plantation in Cambodia makes that person a "leftist." I'm going to guess you're an American. Can you guess which was the party of Lincoln, the emancipator of slaves?

Hi guys and thanks for waiting.

This morning I had the opportunity to talk to a guy who is more or less doing the same thing we are but in a different part of Cambodia. He has been getting yearly returns 6%, 8% and 9%. Now the area I want to do it the land price is higher so that might cut into our dividend potential but then again maybe not. The land he farms is near the Vietnam boarder and has a low quality rice yield. The land that I want to farm has a high quality rice yield and is located in the Seim Reap near Angkor Wat. The value of his land has gone up about 20 to 30% in the last 3 years as well and we expect this trend to continue.

The reason why I am interested in Cambodia and not Thailand is because it has so much more potential than Thailand for growing rice. The Ankor region of Cambodia and the region of Surin Thailand is more or less the same other than being in two different nation states. The people both speak a dialect of Cambodian and have the same type of farming. However the land prices on the Cambodian side are currently less than half the price of land in Thailand. This is because the banking system in Cambodia is not fully developed. They use a system of micro-lending and at a rate of 3% a month. In Thailand it is easy to buy land and get a loan from the bank so it is pushed up in value. When ASEAN opens up I expect the price of land in Cambodia to go up significantly and do so almost over night.

The plan is to more or less buy land and have a farmer who is already farming his own land, use his spare time to farm ours as well. He will then get a part of the rice that is grown. The main farmer guy very much wants extra land to farm because he already has all of the equipment paid for and has lots of free time. It is the economy of scale that is working in our favor here.

Anyway we buy the land, he farms it, we get the rice, we split it, then sell it, get the BTC and pass it on. It is pretty easy and pretty normal for this part of the world. Honestly I was thinking about doing this very same thing for wheat in Missouri but the price of land is just too high right now.

The value of rice and land just keeps going up and I really want to do this and will. Some of the details are not fully worked out like how much land will I get and what will be the split of the rice. However it will be close to 50/50 unless we pay for the fertilizer. If we do that we will get about 70% of the rice.

Some risks will be that the farmer just does not farm and we lose a year of dividends. Someone could also take all of our rice or maybe floods kill it all. Clearly there are other risks and in no way am I going to claim this is a risk free investment. This is not a guaranteed thing but it should be pretty solid over time.

This is not a way to get rich quick and this should be thought of as a way to balance your fiat investments. I hold BTC but not all of my investments are BTC. Diversification is key. Anyway please ask more question and I will be happy to answer all I can.

Thanks.

You should not think of this as a btc investment. Btc in this case is only a way to move fiat and rice. Thanks

Btc like usd and thai baht will float. How the value gets to me i.dont care. I can take gold or even rice and potentally pay out the same. I could mail investers rice if they want. On the phone so sorry for unclear messagea. Thx

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.

You raise an interesting point. Given Cambodia's history with slavery farming (farmers can similarly become indentured to the landowner after a bad year under sharecropping), I would be interested to know their opinion about Goat's proposed venture.

Bitcoin is not seen by the average world citizen as low risk and the average world citizen does not see rice farming, something that has been done for 10,000 years as high risk. Some people would think rice farming to be more stable than BTC but I will admit most of these people might be found outside of this forum.

I'm not saying you should sell BTC to invest in this project, I love BTC, but if you want to invest some of your fiat in this project BTC is a good way to send that value to me.

BTC is more than just a commodity to be stored it is also a way to send wealth around the world safely in seconds.

Thanks.

I've actually got a lot of rice farmers who own their own land in my family, I can piss their yearly wages in about a few days and if you're investing in the machinery needed to make any sizable enterprise you certainly wont be making any profit for a few years, also it's extremely seasonal and some years it rains a lot and you make money some years are very bad. Personally I think it's got to be about the least attractive and most saturated business in a poor economy and for a foreigner to get involved is insane.

Chang Hum, You clearly did not read the thread. If you had you would realize that we are not going to buy machinery. A farmer who already farms rice will use his already paid for stuff to farm our rice for us. In exchange for his stuff and free time he will get a percent of the rice.

Also I highly doubt that your family has rice farms in Cambodia. I understand that you live in Thailand and like me, I think rice farming in Thailand is not a good market to get into. However we can get the same amount of rice for less than half the cost doing it in Cambodia. I think that land price in Cambodia will move up in value and become close to equal to Thailand and in the mean time I will make some dividends off of that land. Will it be 10% each year? I doubt it but on average I expect 4 to 6% with no issue.

Thank you.

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

How sure are you that the btc price will still rise? Btc is still a high risk investment, this allows diversification. If the btc price drops then this investment will still hold value.

If you are so sure that btc prices will rise in the future, you should be putting every penny you have into bitcoin.

Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen  :)

Maybe your investments but mine have been pretty solid. You can check my history on all of my bonds.
BTW for about the 5th time we are not going to hire anyone and there is nothing on the land but dirt (and soon to be rice)....

I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.

I dont know how you could say that, it is patently absurd. I fell for the hype of the housing market, it was only going up, right? I bought a house in 2005, tried to sell it the past few years but nobody was even looking at it when it was listed at 30% of what I payed for it.

I do know a few others (one guy even on this forum) who does the same. But why do you think more than one farm is good? Wouldmany small farms be better than one large farm?

Thanks.

I will make some dividends off of that land. Will it be 10% each year? I doubt it but on average I expect 4 to 6% with no issue.

So we should have an asset that goes up in value compared to fiat and pay dividends in an asset that should also go up in value compared to fiat. The price of food will  only go up.
Thanks guys.

I do not think you bothered to read the thread. I just do not think you understand what is going on here.

But really to be clear if you do not think the land value of Cambodia will go down, do not invest. If you think the price of food will go down, do not invest.

It is not rocket science. Rice farming has been going on for over 100 year now... We pretty much know what to expect... Also we pretty much know what will happen when you just QE3...

This is too fucking much.

Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.

Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States

This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.

Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.

^
Issues

Sharecropping is one small step away from slavery. Your record for bottom-feeding scammery on this forum speaks for itself.

I have a friend who makes about 100k a year rice farming on leased land (in the US), I don't know what the lease costs him, but its probably around half the price his crop sells for.  He's a very oppressed slave.. He lives in a nice house, with a nice wife and kids, drives his nice truck out to his leased farmland everyday parks it in his huge barn full of equipment and works the fields..  Its rough I tell ya!!  ;D

Slavery? you must be kidding. You have made it clear that you do not like me and have called me all sorts of names. Fine, but this is not slavery.

Also you call me a scammer a lot. I would like you to please start a thread in the scamming section and list your evidence. I know you won't do this because I am not a scammer. :/

Thank you.

Ok, plan aborted... Back to the lab to think of a more evil "plot"...    ;D

What area specifically are you talking about?

Don't listen to LoupGaroux, he's a Nazi.

Really? A Nazi? That's the best you could come up with? Well, I guess someone willing to embrace the Number of the Beast in his moniker will certainly expect to find a lot of followers with that kind of thinking. Have a good life, 'cause your afterlife is going to suck something awful.

The one in the picture of course. That's Siem Reap is it not?

Clicking through the images on the map I find it mostly very beautiful.

Really? A Nazi? That's the best you could come up with? Well, I guess someone willing to embrace the Number of the Beast in his moniker will certainly expect to find a lot of followers with that kind of thinking. Have a good life, 'cause your afterlife is going to suck something awful.

A French one, too, at that. Shame on you! Shoo shoo!

That's not the number of the beast, thats the natural number following 665 and preceding 667. Sheesh!

(but let's not hijack this thread with nazi analogies and numerology)

Splendid. Apology accepted. Back to white slavers and carbohydrates then.

Over the course of a year, the price of bitcoin can and will change significantly, right? Naturally, purchases of shares and payouts could be handled with fiat $. Bitcoin would still be used for the transfer of money.

My ultimate question - Why don't any securities do this?

We have sold LoC notes denominated in dollars using BTC as a transfer mechanism.  These are private notes though we favor dealing with a few sophisticated investors than trying to compete in the ponzi-o-rama (3% per week, no 5% per week, no 7% per week, no 1.2% per day, no ∞ per millisecond).

Trying to do it on GLBSE (or any exchange) would be very difficult.  Even the IPO would be tough because if you want a fixed dollar face value the amount paid in BTC is going to continually vary.  GLBSE (or any exchange) could with minimal change in code support dollar denominated assets (traded w/ BTC).  Look at bitmit.net as inspiration.  They allow sellers to sell dollar denominated products in BTC by showing the price in USD with the continually adjusting BTC equivalent.

Interesting thought. Deposit btc but denominate the asset in USD ?

Basically just use BU (Bitcoin Union) instead of WU (Western Union) to zap the USD over to him...

-MarkM-

i dont think you understand. Im paying dividends in rice.

I will if they want. But they will have to pay customs and shipping. So I'm going to assume they will want me to sell it for them in fiat, I then convert the fiat in the BTC and send them the BTC.

I just read up on this whole thread. It's interesting, and would be a good showcase for legitimate BTC uses.

I can imagine investing a minor sum, and would like to see the following (eventually):

* I want to see the share holder contract, and a translated contract with the farmer(s).
* Detailed information about the land and the owner who holds it on investors behalf.
* I don't think you rely on GLBSE or other exchanges, they are still too volatile.
* From what I read I think the shares would be stock style, giving shared ownership, shared risk, and shared profits?
* Who will do the rice selling and for what fees?
* Do you plan to wind this down by selling the land eventually,
* or just have individual owners sell their shares for profit? If so, on which market?
* How do you plan to handle shared decision making?
* If this reaches the size of a company, do you plan to register share holders (partners) by name and verified identity?
* Can you evaluate the land price regularly to provide a current NAV to share holders?

First there will be a contract.
There is not one now because we are in the feedback stage.

Because now I am sure I won't use an exchange this will kick out the many people who would have bought in at 5 BTC or whatever.