idea

[malevolent]

Gene - what is such a leftist as you doing on this forum?!

I guess being disgusted by people wanting to establish an indentured-servant plantation in Cambodia makes that person a "leftist." I'm going to guess you're an American. Can you guess which was the party of Lincoln, the emancipator of slaves?

What is the basis of your guess? This is an international forum and no, I am not an American.
I am from a country with a rich history of serfdom (with its last forms declining in 1930s) but I believe everyone should be given freedom to decide for themselves.
I am against state interventionism in favour of those whom you may deem as being 'oppressed' in the same manner as I am against intervenionism in favour of those who are able to provide an opportunity of work to abject individuals as a mutually benefitting alternative to poverty.

Do you know how would those peasants in Cambodia react to your ideas? I am quite sure they would not be happy that some spoiled Westerner (correct me if I'm wrong) is keen on imposing limits on freedom of others, freedom which would result in them having a job to support their families.

[Chang Hum]

Hi guys and thanks for waiting.

This morning I had the opportunity to talk to a guy who is more or less doing the same thing we are but in a different part of Cambodia. He has been getting yearly returns 6%, 8% and 9%. Now the area I want to do it the land price is higher so that might cut into our dividend potential but then again maybe not. The land he farms is near the Vietnam boarder and has a low quality rice yield. The land that I want to farm has a high quality rice yield and is located in the Seim Reap near Angkor Wat. The value of his land has gone up about 20 to 30% in the last 3 years as well and we expect this trend to continue.

The reason why I am interested in Cambodia and not Thailand is because it has so much more potential than Thailand for growing rice. The Ankor region of Cambodia and the region of Surin Thailand is more or less the same other than being in two different nation states. The people both speak a dialect of Cambodian and have the same type of farming. However the land prices on the Cambodian side are currently less than half the price of land in Thailand. This is because the banking system in Cambodia is not fully developed. They use a system of micro-lending and at a rate of 3% a month. In Thailand it is easy to buy land and get a loan from the bank so it is pushed up in value. When ASEAN opens up I expect the price of land in Cambodia to go up significantly and do so almost over night.

The plan is to more or less buy land and have a farmer who is already farming his own land, use his spare time to farm ours as well. He will then get a part of the rice that is grown. The main farmer guy very much wants extra land to farm because he already has all of the equipment paid for and has lots of free time. It is the economy of scale that is working in our favor here.

Anyway we buy the land, he farms it, we get the rice, we split it, then sell it, get the BTC and pass it on. It is pretty easy and pretty normal for this part of the world. Honestly I was thinking about doing this very same thing for wheat in Missouri but the price of land is just too high right now.

The value of rice and land just keeps going up and I really want to do this and will. Some of the details are not fully worked out like how much land will I get and what will be the split of the rice. However it will be close to 50/50 unless we pay for the fertilizer. If we do that we will get about 70% of the rice.

Some risks will be that the farmer just does not farm and we lose a year of dividends. Someone could also take all of our rice or maybe floods kill it all. Clearly there are other risks and in no way am I going to claim this is a risk free investment. This is not a guaranteed thing but it should be pretty solid over time.

This is not a way to get rich quick and this should be thought of as a way to balance your fiat investments. I hold BTC but not all of my investments are BTC. Diversification is key. Anyway please ask more question and I will be happy to answer all I can.

Thanks.

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

[Chang Hum]

You should not think of this as a btc investment. Btc in this case is only a way to move fiat and rice. Thanks

Oh OK you're not funding with btc right? Sorry I didn't realise you could do GLBSE investments in USD and you used the term BTC several times in your pitch

[Chang Hum]

Btc like usd and thai baht will float. How the value gets to me i.dont care. I can take gold or even rice and potentally pay out the same. I could mail investers rice if they want. On the phone so sorry for unclear messagea. Thx

Yeah think you're kind of missing the point. Never mind!

[Factory]

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.

[Transisto]

I might promote and invest into this only to give the guest a reply when the talk-show host ask : "but, but Bitcoin its for drugs, illegal BS"

[Chang Hum]

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.

Yes a spastic may regard it as hedging! Most people would regard it as taking your money out of a low risk high yielding investment and putting it in a high risk low yielding joke!

[malevolent]

Do you know how would those peasants in Cambodia react to your ideas? I am quite sure they would not be happy that some spoiled Westerner (correct me if I'm wrong) is keen on imposing limits on freedom of others, freedom which would result in them having a job to support their families.

You raise an interesting point. Given Cambodia's history with slavery farming (farmers can similarly become indentured to the landowner after a bad year under sharecropping), I would be interested to know their opinion about Goat's proposed venture.

If they agree to work it will mean that the pros outweigh the cons.

[Chang Hum]

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.

Yes a spastic may regard it as hedging! Most people would regard it as taking your money out of a low risk high yielding investment and putting it in a high risk low yielding joke!

Bitcoin is not seen by the average world citizen as low risk and the average world citizen does not see rice farming, something that has been done for 10,000 years as high risk. Some people would think rice farming to be more stable than BTC but I will admit most of these people might be found outside of this forum.

I'm not saying you should sell BTC to invest in this project, I love BTC, but if you want to invest some of your fiat in this project BTC is a good way to send that value to me.

BTC is more than just a commodity to be stored it is also a way to send wealth around the world safely in seconds.

Thanks.

I've actually got a lot of rice farmers who own their own land in my family, I can piss their yearly wages in about a few days and if you're investing in the machinery needed to make any sizable enterprise you certainly wont be making any profit for a few years, also it's extremely seasonal and some years it rains a lot and you make money some years are very bad. Personally I think it's got to be about the least attractive and most saturated business in a poor economy and for a foreigner to get involved is insane.

[bitcool]

I've actually got a lot of rice farmers who own their own land in my family, I can piss their yearly wages in about a few days and if you're investing in the machinery needed to make any sizable enterprise you certainly wont be making any profit for a few years, also it's extremely seasonal and some years it rains a lot and you make money some years are very bad. Personally I think it's got to be about the least attractive and most saturated business in a poor economy and for a foreigner to get involved is insane.

That's pretty much the same conclusion I reached after researching investing in ag business around the world, not only in poor economies.  

Unless you are Jim Rogers of course  

[Chang Hum]

Chang Hum, You clearly did not read the thread. If you had you would realize that we are not going to buy machinery. A farmer who already farms rice will use his already paid for stuff to farm our rice for us. In exchange for his stuff and free time he will get a percent of the rice.

Also I highly doubt that your family has rice farms in Cambodia. I understand that you live in Thailand and like me, I think rice farming in Thailand is not a good market to get into. However we can get the same amount of rice for less than half the cost doing it in Cambodia. I think that land price in Cambodia will move up in value and become close to equal to Thailand and in the mean time I will make some dividends off of that land. Will it be 10% each year? I doubt it but on average I expect 4 to 6% with no issue.

Thank you.

No they don't, just my 2 cents good luck with it

[Francesco]

Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen 

[bitcoinbear]

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

How sure are you that the btc price will still rise? Btc is still a high risk investment, this allows diversification. If the btc price drops then this investment will still hold value.

If you are so sure that btc prices will rise in the future, you should be putting every penny you have into bitcoin.

[Chang Hum]

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

How sure are you that the btc price will still rise? Btc is still a high risk investment, this allows diversification. If the btc price drops then this investment will still hold value.

If you are so sure that btc prices will rise in the future, you should be putting every penny you have into bitcoin.

What I meant is you can't ask for an investment in BTC through the Glbse and offer a positive return in BTC with any certainty.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen 

They are going to hire people to work on the farm who will proceed to eat all the rice, steal anything not nailed down and make sure anything produced on the farm is covered in E.Coli so people get food poisining, going by the track record of bitcoin investments in the past.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen 

They are going to hire people to work on the farm who will proceed to eat all the rice, steal anything not nailed down and make sure anything produced on the farm is covered in E.Coli so people get food poisining, going by the track record of bitcoin investments in the past.

Maybe your investments but mine have been pretty solid. You can check my history on all of my bonds.
BTW for about the 5th time we are not going to hire anyone and there is nothing on the land but dirt (and soon to be rice)....

I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.

Its also better to use btc to send fiat value overseas than paying western union so as long as you arent selling btc you already have its a good investment.

[bitcoinbear]

I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.

I dont know how you could say that, it is patently absurd. I fell for the hype of the housing market, it was only going up, right? I bought a house in 2005, tried to sell it the past few years but nobody was even looking at it when it was listed at 30% of what I payed for it.

[Francesco]

I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.

I dont know how you could say that, it is patently absurd. I fell for the hype of the housing market, it was only going up, right? I bought a house in 2005, tried to sell it the past few years but nobody was even looking at it when it was listed at 30% of what I payed for it.

Well that bubble was quite obvious. I remember since I was a child wondering who on earth would buy all the houses they were building, since our population has been stable for at least a decade.
But food can be traded all around the world, and overall we will always need more and more of it.

[SysRun]

What does the Cambodian government do to ensure the flow of rice? Is there a rice surplus in Cambodia?

I'll be looking into this, but if anyone knows offhand I'd appreciate it.

[cbeast]

This might not be a bad idea if it is not limited to one farm. Perhaps a group of farmers will join together to form an international fund. I was thinking of buying a tea plantation in the Philippines. I won't need investors, but it might help the business grow faster.