Bitcoin Forum

I'm creating - very reluctantly I must say as I think this is going to be a massive waste of time - an unmoderated thread to discuss StakeMiners (https://stakeminers.com/) and to some extent the controversies surrounding its owner Leroy Fodor aka cyberpinoy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338432) aka knlgfx (http://knlgfx.wix.com/bitland). You can find all grimy details about Mr. Fodor in Gleb Gamow's expose tread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990219).

Let's start with what prompted this thread. Mr. Fodor runs a self-moderated thread about StakeMiners (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670) and he does not allow any questions to be posted there by anyone whom he doesn't like. I have unfortunately fallen into that category so my three posts were deleted from that thread. See those posts below.

Update September 3, 2015. Since cyberpinoy hasn't responded to my attempts to get his attention regarding his TOS I have to tentatively conclude that StakeMiners is probably not being maintained or supported very well. Use at your own risk.

Update September 23, 2015. Cyberpinoy has locked his thread on Bitcointalk (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670) and has declared that he will not be visiting GH forum anymore (https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/1334?u=suchmoon). He has left multiple questions unanswered. Based on the available information I must conclude that StakeMiners is unprofitable and cyberpinoy is trying to obfuscate that fact (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg12496422#msg12496422).

Update October 23, 2015. Cyberpinoy has not explained the latest calculation showing that StakeMiners assets are about 50 BTC / 40% lower than its declared liabilities (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg12721192#msg12721192). In other words, if all investors decided to withdraw they would get less than 60% of their investment back because most coins held by StakeMiners lost value relative to Bitcoin. However cyberpinoy refuses to acknowledge or disclose this issue.

cyberpinoy, don't forget to respond to serious investors asking questions on the other forum:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925

Thanks.

I have a question about StakeMiners TOS.

https://stakeminers.com/terms.php

Sections 8.8 and 8.9 specifically. Who's "you"? What exactly is it trying to say here? Does this mean that the withdrawal penalty doesn't apply to payouts and reinvestments? Why not just say so? Please ELI18.

I still don't see how that answers my question. Let me clarify. Does the withdrawal penalty apply to the reinvested amounts when those amounts are withdrawn at a later date? Could you please simply state:

"The withdrawal penalty DOES apply to all withdrawals, including withdrawals of reinvested amounts".

or

"The withdrawal penalty DOES NOT apply to withdrawals of reinvested amounts, it applies only to withdrawals of the original investment".

or something like that. Then I can ask a few follow-up questions and we can move on.

As for you deleting my posts - can you please specify which rule did I break now. This wasn't a cross-post or spam. It's not smearing you or StakeMiners in any way, just asking about your own TOS.

Please use this thread as a reference and give me the number of the rule that I violated:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

The closest I could see is


However you have not specified any particular rules when you started the thread. Can you do that now at least?

cyberpinoy, can we continue the discussion here as adults? I promise I won't be deleting anything from this thread (not self-moderated as you can see).

I see that you are also having problems with Stake Miners. I've also been following that thread for long now. Gleb Gamow also tagged cyberpinoy as a scammer and a fraud. Idk why you guys still use Stake Miners.

I have sent you a pm just in case.

just take a look through this thread, i havent read through a good part of it myself, but gleb gamow seems to post in that thread he started quite frequently. now, i have no personal experience with stakeminers so i cant say anything, but if theres some fishy stuff going on (enough to warrant a post every hour in that scam accusation thread) i would suspect stakeminers isnt legitimate.

The mere fact that that thread is updated frequently (though I assume some of them are not about cyberpinoy) is enough to raise a red flag on StakeMiners and the owner itself. And as you can see in Gleb's thread, he points out the inconsistency on cyberpinoy's posts, and that alone is also very untrustworthy for me. I don't like it how he put the 'pinoy' word in his name because it tends to give us Filipinos a negative impression.

For some reason cyberpinoy doesn't seem to be interested in responding so I'll just go ahead and post what I can figure out myself.

StakeMiners Terms seem to have been copied from CEX.

To see this you can use a webpage comparison tool such as this http://www.copyscape.com/compare.php

Put https://cex.io/terms and https://stakeminers.com/terms.php in. Result:


So that's 79% of words copied from CEX, many parts verbatim except "CEX.IO" has been replaced with "STAKEMINERS.COM" etc. The parts that are specific to StakeMiners - e.g.  sections 8 and 9 - are poorly written and are inconsistent with the rest of the document. The parts that have been copied have not been reviewed to make sure they match StakeMiners structure and business model.

One example. CEX defines itself like this:


StakeMiners version:


I highlighted "investors" because this word means something else in StakeMiners context - it means the users depositing their coins, not the actual owners of the business. This undermines the whole premise of the terms as an agreement between two parties if the parties are not even defined correctly.

It is quite clear that StakeMiners terms have not been subject to any kind of proof-reading, let alone a review by a person with legal knowledge.

Just a bit more context for my interest in StakeMiners TOS.

The site has been advertising itself as having "no fees". When I confronted cyberpinoy and one of his BOI members about "withdrawal fees" listed in the TOS I was told that these are not "fees" but withdrawal penalties, and the TOS has been since updated to say "penalties" instead of "fees". The structure of the fees has not changed though and it is impossible to avoid them, except perhaps with reinvestments - which is what I'm trying to clarify here.

Here is the fee penalty structure:


https://stakeminers.com/terms.php

Cultural appropriation is all the rage these days  :-\

Nah, suchmoon sent me a link on how disgusted this man (cyberpinoy) is to my fellow countrymen. I kind of like to punch him in his face for being so racist and acting so superior.

---

Wouldn't he be liable on plagiarism in this case? Because most of the words he used were only copy and pasted on his site. I doubt if cex.io would even bother to look at it though. A copy-pasted ToS is already a red flag, let alone the silence of this man who isn't responding to any queries targeted on him.

I highlighted another word/term. One entity's a company, whereas the other is just a notch above being ONLY a thread on some forum. BTW, you'll be in big, big, big trouble if you steal the latter's trademark thingies, perhaps registered in Taured (http://coolinterestingstuff.com/the-strange-mystery-of-the-man-from-taured).

I was going to ask cyberpinoy what exactly is StakeMiners, i.e. is it a business incorporated in Philippines? Vietnam? Kind of important for investors to understand who it is that they're are dealing with. My understanding so far is that StakeMiners is synonymous with Leroy Fodor as a person as I couldn't find any mention of any other legal entity. There is the BOI but it seems to be some kind of an advisory committee.

I hope cyberpinoy will answer this question.

Found your next community outreach project, did you?

Not much of a project, more of a monologue at this time.

There are two possibilities here I think:

1) Nobody cares, StakeMiners fades into oblivion.
2) StakeMiners becomes huge and this thread blows up into 2000 pages. j/k.

People.... Stop sending others your money!

Work for it yourself - don't believe anyone that says you can profit.... But wants you to pay them first. Earn it and keep it!

Here is how cyberpinoy explained why some withdrawals are not shown in the list of transactions on the StakeMiners.com website:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/1185

https://meem.link/i/a/twsxM.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

It appears though that cyberpinoy still wants your deposits. It's just the transparency hassle that he doesn't want.

In case you're wondering about the security of your account on StakeMiners.com please keep in mind that the website will send your password in clear text via e-mail when you create your account or when you need to reset your password. There is no 2FA and cyberpinoy will personally handle support requests, identifying accounts by their e-mail address. In a nutshell, it is prone to fairly basic social engineering attacks just by spoofing the "From" address.

Here is how cyberpinoy explains his choice of this security model:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/1076
https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/1090

https://meem.link/i/a/1CA3h.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

Well, I gave up on questioning and had to put some money into StakeMiners to try to figure out how it works.

Here are some interesting numbers. I put 0.005 BTC in a while ago and it still shows my invested amount as 0.005 BTC. I find it hard to believe that the value of altcoins has been so amazingly stable, so I have to assume that the invested amount shows the original investment and not the current value.

Which raises a few questions (likely rhetorical ones because @cyberpinoy doesn't care to respond whether you're a paying customer or not).

1) Does the total amount invested (~ 107 BTC currently) reflect the sum of original investments or the current value?

2) Why does the weight percentage (0.005% in my case) seem to reflect the current value (0.005 / 107 rounded to 3 decimal places) if the invested amount is stuck at the original investment? I invested when the total pool amount was much lower, so my % should be higher?

3) If I decide to withdraw would I be able to withdraw the original investment or the current value? In other words, in regards to dooglus' points in the following thread, what does StakeMiners consider as its liabilities?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1168431.msg12374284#msg12374284

There is actually a lot more I'd like to know but let's see if @cyberpinoy will consider it worthwhile responding before I consider it worthwhile digging further.

https://meem.link/i/a/31iw3.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

https://meem.link/i/a/0aJg9.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

Meet the BOI. I don't think this part of the website is available without logging in:

https://meem.link/i/a/kbELb.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

Do you have access to the see what addresses the coins are being staked in so you can see the proof that staking is happening since you lit your $1 on fire.

Addresses are not posted on the website but they did post them a while ago on the GH forum. I did some digging and yes, they are staking but the total balance is less than the 107 BTC claimed on the site. Waiting for cyberpinoy to explain it.

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/1232

I assumed they would be easy to find if you logged in because when I asked cyberpinoy he said that everything was on the website and locked his thread.

I'm not shocked.

That's the biggest problem with this whole operation. It may be an ok idea, and it's trivially easy to do it in a straight up and transparent manner. The fact that it is neither should scare people.

I also like how half i tied up in 1 coin when they claim that diversification will protect them from price volatility, what a joke. We've officially reached the point where it's on you if you lose money in this shit show.

He posts SCREENSHOTS of his wallets on the website. The page is behind a login wall but the images are not so here it is:

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet1.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet2.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet3.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet4.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet5.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet6.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet7.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet8.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet9.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet10.jpg

https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet11.jpg

Looking at those screenshots I realized a couple of things. At least one wallet (OKcash) has multiple staking addresses. That may account for some of the difference but I don't know how much exactly. And there is a Ratecoin wallet with a balance visible in the screenshot so I'll add that to my calculations.

So...

What exactly is the difference between having your own coins in your own wallet and giving them to him?

The only advantage I see is if you have less than the number of coins recommended for one single block in order to achieve a stake within a period of time that you think is reasonable.  The problem with this is all the PoS coins are not exactly expensive...

With that said, there are plenty of businesses that rely on ignorance and/or laziness of the masses so that shouldn't be held against him.

From the little I've seen, and because I myself am too lazy to bother and research this, I don't see this as anything else but someone offering (for a price) their own wallet for those that either can't or won't use their own.

If you have your own wallet(s) and know the basic concepts of their use you will most likely not use this "company".  If you don't have the ability or knowledge required to have your own wallets you'll probably use something like this.

Just my opinion...

Sorry for doubling the post but my above post is one topic... and this is another...

That's an awful lot of people involved in a project that is only worth by their own accounting of 107BTC, assuming this is what was claimed, translating to (@ $246/BTC) only 26k USD and some change...

For 6 executive officers and 4 trusties and assuming a 4% realistic return on the coins invested per month (I know, very kind) that's only a gross revenue of just over 1k USD per month...

Since I don't know how much is personal and how much is client I won't expand beyond the simple facts but even if that 1k was all internal that would relate to an even distribution of 100 USD per month... not exactly enough to be considered a salary IMO... unless you're living in a 3rd world country with no or limited access to potable water and your house is made of fig leaves (not saying anything bad against the 3rd world areas... just stating realistic living conditions.

With the number of people involved I was kind of expecting to see more like 1000-5000 BTC total...

Despite the fancy titles those are volunteer positions. Even cyberpinoy himself claims to be making money from his own investment and is not taking a salary.

His investment is ~11 BTC in case you're wondering.

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/781

https://meem.link/i/a/CgWvh.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

The more coins you have in a wallet the more coins you can stake, so putting your coins into a bigger pot to stake will generate you a bigger return than keeping them yourself, so 1 wallet with 100 coins in it will stake more coins overall than 10 wallets with 10 coins each combined. That is where this could make sense. I get a bunch of people to put a bunch of coin x into the same wallet so that we will get a bigger return together than we could all get on their own.

The problem with this is that they are collecting and distributing btc. What they do with the btc can be done transparently and clearly, but they don't do that. If I got a bunch of people to stake coin x and the coin crashed, we lose, but we knew what we were getting in to with coin x, so that's on us. in this system, you don't have control over what coins are staked, so you are relying on someone who locks threads and possibly lies about his crypto experience to distribute the coins properly.

My biggest concern is that by without allowing users/prospective investors to see the wallets on blockchains, there is nothing stopping someone with questionable integrity from scamming. Imagine the price of TEK goes from 2500 satoshi to 1500 satoshi, what is stopping stakeminers from saying they had 50 btc in TEK and pocketing the rest for themselves?

While I do understand the premise of pooling coins the effects would only be vastly realized if, and only if, difficulty rises to a point where an "average" wallet will not stake.  One coin that is a prime example of this is HYP, and to another extent his new ratecoin project (from what I see as I bought in and subsequently sold out after I realized this to be in effect).  I have not pooled my coins and I have ~500k of them and only get one or two blocks per day on average.  It is what it is and this coin would see a benefit to pooled staking.  I've just decided to let the wallet go and see where the thing winds up.

Coins that have a relatively low difficulty do not create any marked increase in stake.  My 100k or so TEK blocks stake within an hour or so of achieving minimum coinage.  Same with my HBN, CAP, and (to a lesser extent but still valid) CON.

I guess I'm saying that the only thing I see this as is giving my coins to someone else to do the same thing that I could do but losing the primary rule for cryptocurrency... "trust no one".

With the multitudes of scams and confidence men in this "industry" this mantra seems to be ignored by the very people who need to heed it most.

I don't have much experience with staking coins - other than XPY and CON of course - but this sounds like the old-school multipool mining. Instead of trying to solo-mine a bunch of coins, dealing with wallets, exchanges, etc you're delegating all that to a pool. Even if I CAN do that myself I can see how it would make sense to have someone do it for me.

Obviously there is a problem. You don't gift your hardware to a mining multipool with the hope that they might give it back. You have to give your coins to a staking pool unless some kind of multisig solution could be implemented.

This is even before we get into the inflationary economics of this thing. It's unsustainable to pay out the whole stake if the principal depreciates due to inflation. Although that part is somewhat similar to hardware depreciation it's not quite clear how a staking pool should handle it.

Well what I can help you with is that some developers are integrating the idea of "pull a little bit of profit out of the exchange slowly" by building S4C (stake for charity) or multisend into their respective wallets.

Basically what this allows is for a percentage of the stake to be sent to an exchange, presumably to sell for BTC.  Obviously the only way to sustain this is to provide or create demand.  If there is no widespread demand the coin's price will suffer (i.e. XPY).


So... it all falls down to the only coins that are being staked on stakeminers  (disclaimer: that I know of) that would benefit from pooled staking is HYP and XRA.  And I wouldn't recommend those two coins, unless you're willing to buy >1m of each.  And that minimum number continues to grow as difficulty does.

That is apparently true of Netcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745323.msg11539596#msg11539596), up to a point (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745323.msg11540949#msg11540949)(*). They actively encourage decentralisation by having large wallets stake disproportionately faster than smaller wallets. By doubling the size of your wallet you more than double the return from staking.

That seems like a silly thing to incentivise, but that's what they do.

I don't know if any other coins have the same. As I understand it, most don't.

So why would we want to use a staking pool?

 1. the pool runs all the wallets for us, saving us the trouble / bandwidth / disk space / maintenance / etc. of having to do it ourselves

 2. pooling our resources reduces the variance; we achieve our expected return much more quickly than by solo staking

 3. some coins stake better (ie. higher expected percentage return) the bigger the wallet balance is (eg. netcoin) and so pooling makes sense

And why wouldn't we want to use a staking pool?

 1. we have to trust a third party with our coins; there's no way of using multisig for staking coins, since in order to stake, the staking wallet needs to be able to sign a transaction with our private key; with the same private key the staking service can steal our coins

 2. the staking service presumably takes some kind of fee (or 'penalty', call it what you will) which reduces our expected profit

 3. if we were solo-staking, we could evaluate each coin and decide which one to invest in; with this setup it appears that such decision is made by the pool itself which leaves us vulnerable to manipulation (pool owner buys up some shitcoinX for himself, then buys a bunch of the same coin for the pool, then dumps his personal holdings at the pool's expense)

These downsides could be alleviated to varying degrees, but the current lack of transparency and control really don't help potential investor confidence.

(*) Netcoin balances stake better as they grow to 10 million, and then the growth stops. 10 million netcoin is current worth a little over $5000, which is probably more than most altcoin speculators are willing to hold in netcoin, and so there is clear pressure to pool. It appears that stakeminers already hold over 10 million netcoin, and so adding more won't increase their return, but from my point of view it does increase my return.

All those pictures and not a single thumb's up. Most definitely untrustworthy.

cyberpinoy doesn't seem to think it's worth responding to explain the difference between the invested amounts stated on the website and the value of published assets.

I was looking at some of the addresses more closely and noticed that for example the big one (NET) doesn't seem to have any recent withdrawals for payouts. I had the impression that the idea of a staking pool would be to put the coins into a wallet, stake, remove the staking proceeds / minted coins (perhaps in some sort of a fashion to avoid disrupting coinage too much), exchange to BTC, and pay out.

Which raises a question now - if the wallet containing 50% of StakeMiners assets hasn't had a withdrawal for a month (since August 18) then where are the payouts coming from? And why is cyberpinoy putting half of his proverbial eggs into such a volatile coin? (Yes, I checked and he didn't sell any significant amounts when the price was 300+ sat so it looks like he's not using his Forex experience here)

https://meem.link/i/a/5VccO.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

https://meem.link/i/a/mfdoI.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

You're clearly a novice trader at best. Look at the right hand edge of the chart. Netcoin is exhibiting a very strong cock-n-balls "boner" formation, which is predictive of the price exploding upwards:

https://i.imgur.com/G50RH2F.png

I thought it was Leroy giving the finger to his investors who dare to ask questions, but your explanation is much better. My 0.005 BTC investment is going to the moon.

Holy crap, I needed that laugh. Thank you dooglus :)

Given this is a guy that operates a site that effectively doubles as a staking pool for its investors, he's probably worth paying attention to on the subject. This lends a lot of credibility to his next insight...

I am a little disappointed that cyberpinoy would not discuss Stakeminers more openly than he has been. I have pushed him a bit to try to make that happen but seems convinced that people are out to get him when these questions and advice from people (particularly in this thread and on Gethashing), are among the most experienced in the Crypto community. I personally think that negative questions and opinions are the very stuff that should be listened to the most, you should be trying to satisfy the critics because the ones that will go along with everything will do so anyways.

I think I put in about $20 worth of PayCon a while back to test out the site, I suppose I should check on it and see how it's doing.

My pm's with cyberpinoy was mainly about proper use of splitting Blocks in PayCon for better payouts as he was using very large Blocks when he could receive better rewards by using smaller Blocks. He also complained to me about people trolling him and I told him that he should be transparent, not attack people when posting and use correct spelling as it is a more professional way to handle situations but for the most part ended up saying the same thing multiple times. I would be ok with sharing all of my pm's sent and received between us, I'll leave this on the table for suchmoon to decide if he wants it or not but I think for the most part it won't really shed light on anything new.

I quite like the idea of a Stakepool but the challenge is having a central authority running it which will always cause problems as it is run as a security.

the entire point of this shit is that everything is supposed to be transparent and visible on the blockchain. You can't have any problems with "trolls" if you can do that.

I don't know why cyberpinoy isn't able to make everything transparent and open, but it tells me all I need to know.

There were "trolls" (including me) but that doesn't mean the questions weren't legitimate. The lack of transparency is the biggest issue. If/when one of the coins gets dumped, investors lose value. The lack of transparency means there is no way to show that the investors don't get fucked by that dump and then fucked by cyberpinoy saying they had more of those coins then they really did.

The smart way to do a staking coin is to collect a certain coin and pool it together. Needing the pool operator to exchange coins opens up so many more methods of failure that it makes zero sense.

Unless there is something criminal in those PMs there is probably no need to publish them. It would just give more ammunition to cyberpinoy to claim he's being attacked by trolls. A quick recap of how he moved the goalposts:

1) When being questioned about his past he claimed this has nothing to do with StakeMiners therefore not worth answering/proving/etc.
2) When being questioned about StakeMiners TOS he claimed those questions have an unknown intent, are coming from someone (me, suchmoon, specifically) who is not going to invest, therefore not worth answering/proving/etc.
3) When being questioned about StakeMiners investments (after I invested) he locked his thread and went quiet. Yesterday he demanded that I apologize for saying "shortage", which he took to mean "stolen". I apologized and he's still not answering questions.

The questions are completely legitimate, Gleb is a bit profane but then again it's everyone's right to be able to be as profane as they want and does highlight that what was said before does not match up along the same timeline. If I were to call you a fuckwit retard, maybe that might offend you, but why? Does it matter if someone calls names? What matters is the content of the message, not the delivery. If I were to respond to someone by calling them names or talking down to them because they did so to me then that would only make me look like a fuckwit retard for engaging in a pointless argument.

It is impossible to troll someone that will listen to what you say, to be transparent about everything and admit to being wrong so if being the center of a dramacade, it is because that person chooses to foster that.

Nothing criminal and basically don't want to post them because it is opinion (and said in confidence), I can send you copies through pm if you'd like and you can look over them.

cyberpinoy seems to be double-counting withdrawals. For example before s3v3nh4cks' withdrawal the "Total invested" amount was ~120 BTC, after the 35 BTC withdrawal it dropped to 85 BTC. That part is fine. But he also seems to have added that amount to total payouts, which is not correct.

If we take cyberpinoy's numbers at face value it would seem that investors deposited ~112 BTC (total investment amount as of a few days ago), and got ~80 BTC paid out, i.e. only about 32 BTC until "break even". This makes the 82.5 BTC current value of assets look like a substantial gain (+50 BTC).

However the site is probably "under water". If you don't double-count withdrawals it paid out 26 BTC, i.e. 112 - 26 = 86 BTC until "break even". But it only has 82.5 worth of assets and that's in ideal conditions, i.e. if it somehow could liquidate those positions without crashing the prices.

Withdrawal totals collected from the payouts page:

https://stakeminers.com/transactions.php

cyberpinoy is sort of admitting that StakeMiners is insolvent:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg12560048#msg12560048

Highlights:



It's not explained how exactly the "available" amount is calculated and it doesn't appear that StakeMiners is offering an opt-out for investors who don't agree with the new terms.

What it does say is:


I suspect that's a typo for "in excess *of* earnings", but it's still not clear what that means.

Seems to me like further obfuscation for its own sake.

He should take a look at how Just-Dice.com works - it is essentially a staking pool, operated in a transparent manner. At any point in time everyone can see exactly what their balance is, and can withdraw it without penalty. There's no need to penalise withdrawals. People will leave their coins on the site if they see they are performing well. The first step towards allowing that is to offer transparency wherever possible. Otherwise all investors have is vague statements like "earnings are up again this week".

Sounds like he's going to subtract earnings from your principal.

E.g. if you invested 12 BTC and got paid 2 BTC in weekly payouts over 90 days then your "available BTC in excess of earnings" is probably 10 BTC. At this point I'm not sure if he's saying that you can withdraw 10 BTC now and 2 BTC next month, or 10 BTC total (e.g. 6 now 4 later) or something else entirely.

The complication for StakeMiners (compared to just-dice) is that cyberpinoy wants to operate in BTC while the assets are in assorted altcoins. Even if he decided to show the "real" BTC balance that still wouldn't mean he'd be able to pay it out (for reasons that you pointed out earlier - slippage etc).

It's a moot point though. I don't think transparency is going to happen here.

Here is why cyberpinoy decided to change the rules:


See the link for more info - e-mails etc:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-coin-staking-service-stakeminers-com/3925/1380

Suchmoon, do you mind pointing out that husky should be getting some profits from now until he actually gets his coins. If they are holding his coins to not hurt the rest of the pool, he should definitely reap the rewards from not until he actually gets his coins back. I would do it but there's zero chance of my signing up to any of these gaw-fallout sites.

This is the problem that I have been pointing out since I found out that he was taking in BTC to run this operation. He takes the BTC, then buys various coins. Those coins will stake, but when the value of those coins drops, he won't be able to to provide BTC to his investors.

That's why it would make sense if he took in and paid out various coins, that way people would be responsible for the risk by choosing to deal with a specific coin.

That's also why Gleb's constant perstering to find out Leroy's actual experience with btc/cryptocoins matters. It's not just a lie for the sake of lying, how long he has been involved is directly relevant to his crypto knowledge, which impact which coins he invests in, which is definitely relevant to his investor.

Done:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-coin-staking-service-stakeminers-com/3925/1413

good evening Gents ;D

Thanks, I commend you for having the patience/insanity to give them some money in order to get the inside info and get a look at the inside. I hope it prevents some of those people from losing all their money.

Is that a joke? How is it unfortunate if it is not a Ponzi?


It sure is hard to follow the intended meaning. What is "theirs"? Who is the "they" to which this refers?


When people accuse me of running a Ponzi, I point them at the proof of solvency that I publish on a weekly basic. Proof of funds plus proof of liabilities equals proof of solvency. I would never ignore such accusations, because it would make me look guilty.


Nor should you. You should change things because the way you currently do things makes you look shady as fuck. If you aren't running a Ponzi then you should endeavor to prove it. There's no reason not to.

As for the fee issue, I see where you're coming from. The outputs in your wallet have built up a certain "weight", and disturbing them to process withdrawals will hurt that weight. Offering investors the option of paying a reduced fee if they're willing to delay their withdrawal until you have low weight outputs on hand seems like a reasonable approach. I'm not sure if that's exactly what your new terms imply, since they themselves are pretty vague and hard to understand.

There was a lot of activity in the GH thread over the last couple days. One of the posts was quoted by dooglus above and it reflects cyberpinoy's overall attitude - he's trying to be calm (commendable) but is still deflecting any requests for proof or questions to clarify his claims. He seems to be totally lost in his own TOS:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/high-risk-pos-coin-staking-stakeminers-com/3925/1518


After his repeated attempts to coerce me into a "semi face to face" conversation - reason for which remains unclear to me, perhaps some kind of a phishing/doxing attempt? - I made this offer:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/high-risk-pos-coin-staking-stakeminers-com/3925/1472
https://forum.gethashing.com/t/high-risk-pos-coin-staking-stakeminers-com/3925/1477

It looks like I'm just as bad at math as you, because I still get only around 80 BTC in the staking wallets. I linked to the blockexplorer pages for the coins whose staking addresses have been publicly disclosed, and not for the ones I was told in private by cyberpinoy.

Are we still missing some? ie. is the list incomplete? I'm not implying anyone stole the "missing" addresses, just that perhaps there aren't as many as there should be:

Payout address has 1.2 BTC in it:

https://stakeminers.com/transactions.php
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/82e145c5c3f734a608d48ca9ef242404de7976f7ee5e4a9b4b6085110fb5afc2
https://blockchain.info/address/15RNyRkxBn3g3rcYGCbj7n1sFHhQkg9wPo

An investor withdrew ~6 BTC recently.

https://blockchain.info/tx/73461e5dac38d0965ac4a400b24a2c6e0a8671f1bc3d6221f1b997ac013ebb92

Still we are looking at less than 90 BTC vs cyberpinoy's recently claimed 115 BTC (before the ~ 6 BTC withdrawal):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg12560048#msg12560048

Edit: he's still saying "113.76823939 BTC Invested" inside the website. Which can either mean that he didn't update the number after the withdrawal, or that someone deposited a similar amount.

It looks like Quotient (XQN) has been added to the pool but there is no wallet address or screenshot for it. I think I read somewhere that the XQN deposit was donated by the devs but I can't that post now.

Isn't it possible that he has 18.6 million of the 12.5 million total xqn? Wait that doesn't make sense. Never mind.

No matter how much it is, I'm sure that investing in a coin that has an official twitter with no posts since the last pump and dump 7 months ago will lead to nothing but vast riches for everyone involved.

Leroy posted that on StakeMiner's Facebook page and I think Aether or Allen posted screenshot on the GHforum (couldn't find the post on the quick either...)

WARNING! Long post! Grab a beer and sit back or scroll to the bottom for a tldr.

This is a calculation of StakeMiners assets based on the latest published wallet data. Whenever I say "current" below I mean "current as of the time of this post give or take a couple of hours". The usual caveats apply - don't rely on these numbers for any kind of financial decisions, double- and triple-check everything and feel free to yell at me if you find anything wrong.

cyberpinoy posted links to block explorers for each wallet so that makes it much easier to figure out the balances. I did check if the block explorer information matches screenshot TX timestamps and amounts since I was planning to do that anyway. There was one mistmach - the Quotient "XQN Community" address was not linked from the screenshot - but the amount is negligible.

StakeMiners declared numbers:
 https://i.imgur.com/u3uRgsN.png
116.93109622 BTC Invested
Total Paid Out 100.37752948 BTC

StakeMiners exchange rates:
 https://i.imgur.com/Dcd3Mvt.png
NetCoin (NET) 0.00000129 BTC ↑
OKCash (OK) 0.00000136 BTC ↑
HyperStake (HYP) 0.00000192 BTC ↑
HYPER (HYPER) 0.00020840 BTC ↑
Tekcoin (TEK) 0.00002298 BTC ↑
PayCon (CON) 0.00000540 BTC ↑
BitBean (BITB) 0.00000023 BTC ↑
BottleCaps (CAP) 0.00000926 BTC ↓
Diamonds (DMD) 0.00101148 BTC ↓
HoboNickels (HBN) 0.00003147 BTC ↑
RateCoin (XRA) 0.00000246 BTC ↑
Quotient (XQN) 0.00000112 BTC ↑
AmberCoin (AMBER) 0.00012690 BTC ↑
Reddcoin (RDD) 0.00000004 BTC ↑

The following is a list of StakeMiners wallets based on wallet screenshots published October 17, 2015.

Netcoin wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet1.jpg
Netcoin wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/eZnu3.jpg
Netcoin wallet address: http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/NET/address.php?address=nRAWBySK7wAm57biV9uNGASzWPZhsMPsQC
Netcoin wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 803019 and 803034 match the screenshot
Netcoin wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 6 hours = explorer timestamp (seems to be missing AM/PM)
Netcoin wallet current balance: 20,648,868.803026 NET = 26.63704076 BTC

OKCash wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet2.jpg
OKCash wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/Hg9Et.jpg
OKCash wallet address 0 (StakeMiners): https://chainz.cryptoid.info/ok/address.dws?PXXGsfjUYZ6XVGkrqqPdZ25jHB7h5PqSzu.htm
OKCash wallet address 1 (StakeMiners1): https://chainz.cryptoid.info/ok/address.dws?PNvteSog3F4nQpzGSyyuqhuj1A3h8dYJye.htm
OKCash wallet address 2 (StakeMiners2): https://chainz.cryptoid.info/ok/address.dws?PQorSwRmkbVJCMxGayqq74uhzr1svbowb8.htm
OKCash wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 12 hours = explorer timestamp
OKCash wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 449078, 449456, 449509, 449574, 449503, 449584 match the screenshots
OKCash wallet current balance: 2756549.82231276 OK = 3.74890776 BTC

HyperStake wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet3.jpg
HyperStake wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/WEmom.jpg
HyperStake wallet screenshot balance: 1637158.359661 HYP
HyperStake wallet address: http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/HYP/address.php?address=p7vC2g61JMvguY5Pj9DtZJS6NK6Q5B5q4F
HyperStake wallet match: timestamps on blocks 468064 and 468097 match the screenshot, balance ~ matches the screenshot
HyperStake wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 8 hours = explorer timestamp
HyperStake wallet current balance: 1624886.25 HYP = 3.11978160 BTC

TEKcoin wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet4.jpg
TEKcoin wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/dsUqe.jpg
TEKcoin wallet address: http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/TEK/address.php?address=BjSZyef8BbVgdGCGViKJ6R3CEWfRMSn9tv
TEKcoin wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 1211896 and 1213959 match the screenshot
TEKcoin wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 6 hours = explorer timestamp
TEKcoin wallet current balance: 189270.45906000 TEK = 4.34943515 BTC

PayCon wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet5.jpg
PayCon wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/j03Hk.jpg
PayCon wallet screenshot balance: 421968.241237 CON
PayCon wallet address: http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/paycon/address.php?address=PVKVPfVB3yijNaL2jRPx9NPF2TjbwLAiTk
PayCon wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 393808 and 393851 match the screenshot, balance ~ matches the screenshot
PayCon wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 6 hours = explorer timestamp (seems to be missing AM/PM)
PayCon wallet current balance: 461,912.391237 CON = 2.49432691 BTC

BitBean wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet6.jpg
BitBean wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/xIPX0.jpg
BitBean wallet address: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/bitb/address.dws?2X8bqUvaSRkbkQ2MCnkjnoK2qWMLUNEpFj.htm
BitBean wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 376499 and 376546 match the screenshot
BitBean wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 12 hours = explorer timestamp
BitBean wallet current balance: 7,609,696.48410332 BITB = 1.75023019 BTC

Diamond wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet7.jpg
Diamond wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/1YGQK.jpg
Diamond wallet address: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dmd/address.dws?dY4RBAxdyxycfFXXCRUgByta5oKio7zEV2.htm
Diamond wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 1187327 and 1188808 match the screenshot
Diamond wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 12 hours = explorer timestamp
Diamond wallet current balance: 5,009.136705 DMD = 5.06664159 BTC

BottleCaps wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet8.jpg
BottleCaps wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/ugXsN.jpg
BottleCaps wallet address: http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/CAP/address.php?address=Ev8nEYQaDMzKWd1WNvTVPcFmymVbEdrYWM
BottleCaps wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 1426930 and 1428705 match the screenshot
BottleCaps wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 8 hours = explorer timestamp
BottleCaps wallet current balance: 217319.859375 CAP = 2.01238190 BTC

Hyper wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet9.jpg
Hyper wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/0Nrez.jpg
Hyper wallet address: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/hyper/address.dws?HLiszCKnW5fXPMp2VzizmDQTT1xiob46Jt.htm
Hyper wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 1662204 and 1662341 match the screenshot
Hyper wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 8 hours = explorer timestamp
Hyper wallet current balance: 48,516.6535 HYPER = 10.11087059 BTC

HoboNickels wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet10.jpg
HoboNickels wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/8ucJd.jpg
HoboNickels wallet screenshot balance: 19055.841518 HBN
HoboNickels wallet address: http://hbn.cryptocoinexplorer.com/address?address=F5Vcy6RZxHz1JVtSLZzsRsx2iMKFY2VMRw
HoboNickels wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 2775923 and 2781052 match the screenshot
HoboNickels wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 8 hours = explorer timestamp
HoboNickels wallet current balance: 76552 HBN = 2.40909144 BTC

RATECoin wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet11.jpg
RATECoin wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/HPnmz.jpg
RATECoin wallet screenshot balance: 568638.05773404 XRA
RATECoin wallet address: http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/XRA/address.php?address=RMaFar2zDvEFaQDosACzrWbAyJS2VyJ1Ex
RATECoin wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 149907 and 149908 match the screenshot
RATECoin wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 8 hours = explorer timestamp (seems to be missing AM/PM)
RATECoin wallet current balance: 502,947.382029 XRA = 1.23725056 BTC

Quotient wallet screenshot: https://stakeminers.com/images/stakewallet12.jpg
Quotient wallet screenshot backup: http://i.snag.gy/dKDLm.jpg
Quotient wallet address (StakeMiners): http://www.blocktree.io/address/XQN/QZHfSfp9WBcTzs2zCMvf7WVbQBmRQdVaUo
Quotient wallet address (XQN Community): http://www.blocktree.io/address/XQN/QPdt2qDz6QRj88irSEqM3CMmQuTEzUTwK8
Quotient wallet match: stakes and timestamps on blocks 505850, 505997, 505621, 506059 match the screenshot
Quotient wallet time offset: screenshot timestamp - 8 hours = explorer timestamp
Quotient wallet current balance: 132313.88988 XQN = 0.14819156 BTC

(edit: added BTC wallet https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/163c677c48a3548e/addresses as pointed out by Bruno (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990219.msg12721718#msg12721718))

TOTAL: 66.95523845 BTC
(~57.26% of the "116.93109622 BTC Invested")

One major difference from the last calculation (about a month ago (https://forum.gethashing.com/t/high-risk-pos-coin-staking-stakeminers-com/3925/1265)) is that the Netcoin value dropped by ~30% resulting in a ~13 BTC loss for StakeMiners.

Edit2: fixed some copy pasta errors and typos.

^^^ Nice work, Suchmoon. You put in more work in the above post than what StakeMiners' investards should've already done during the due diligence stage when contemplating sending a single satoshi Leroy Fodor's way. HAHAHA

Rest assured that Leroy Fodor WILL come around and explain the missing coinage as not missing but used for maintenance cost aka living expenses unrelated to StakeMiners. The day Leroy Fodor fucks up, one of StakeMiners' principles will have a lot of explaining to do at HER current place of employment given that Leroy's on record in declaring that his wife is a partner in the venture. HAHAHA

Interesting... very interesting... who ever would have thought that trusting a third party with your money inside a community built on the basis of mistrust to and for all would be a bad idea...

It's just amazing...

Fraud implies a deliberate wrongdoing, so technically it could be not a fraud if we assume that cyberpinoy is incompetent but not a criminal.

But that doesn't really change anything from the investor's perspective. StakeMiners is insolvent, stay away.

Consider holding your BTC holdings. Guaranteed 100% ROI.

It appears to be one, it's just hard to actually prove because of the lack of information provided from them. They never recalculate the value of investments when the price of the underlying coins drops, so it's likely that they have been running with a deficit since the first payout.

That plus the constantly changing TOS, the lack of being able to show the math for how they calculated the withdrawal fee when the last BOI member bailed, and many other reasons seem like this is a bad idea.

If you are going to invest your coins make sure someone has a way to earn bitcoins regardless of price, because as soon as you give your coins to someone else they have them are able to fuck you over if the price changes. the only thing that looks to make sense to me is casinos, but you are on your own to figure out which of those are run by reputable people who won't just rob you.

He is suggesting investing in a casino, not playing at one.

It's been ~4 days since I posted my calculations showing that StakeMiners assets are worth LESS than cyberpinoy declares as thier "holdings".

~67 BTC actual assets, ~117 BTC declared, or approximately 50 BTC or ~40% less. In other words StakeMiners doesn't have funds to pay out all investors and also its staking pool capacity is significantly lower than the declared amount.

Cyberpinoy doesn't appear to think that it's important enough to explain this difference to his investors. There was no response from him aside from some indirect and vague rebuttals in his locked thread, e.g.:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg12733122#msg12733122


... however cyberpinoy failed to provide any additional sources for "the total value of Stakeminers' holdings" so to be safe we should assume that StakeMiners remains insolvent.

Please note that StakeMiners announced TOS changes that would take effect on November 1 and would impose additional limits on withdrawals in an apparent attempt to mask the solvency issue. If you have an investment in StakeMiners please review sections 24, 25, 26 of the new TOS and consider withdrawing before November 1st.

https://stakeminers.com/terms.php

Here is a comparison of StakeMiners assets between ~3 weeks ago and today. As you can see the real value declined by ~16 BTC or ~24% while @cyberpinoy is claiming a ~5 BTC or ~4% increase. At this time StakeMiners shows less than half of its declared assets: 51 BTC vs 122 BTC.

https://forum.gethashing.com/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cd92fd3ca5e1a184c944643f966c5f66cbfa3012.jpg

I won't be reposting all addresses etc - I used the same information that's been posted here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg12721192#msg12721192

Thanks for the followup, suchmoon, in putting in the extra effort in exposing the venerated Leroy Fodor,
the "in"-thing to do. HAHAHA

I wonder why you guys are still digging into Stakeminers when it's a confirmed scam proven from his own website? ;)

Just look at these fake addresses and fake phone numbers bobbling freely on his site!


http://i67.tinypic.com/2moxkk8.jpg


I guess Google Map doesn't lie :P


http://i67.tinypic.com/5bsoch.jpg


So now, Leory Fodor will claim that he is running another business alongside his Stakeminers called "Digital Interface" ;D



http://i67.tinypic.com/95sv3b.jpg (http://www.digitalinterface.com.ph/)



And now tally the above address and phone numbers with that provided on his website's WHOIS details:

Domain Name: STAKEMINERS.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1907628068_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.tucows.com
Registrar URL: http://tucowsdomains.com
Updated Date: 2015-07-20T17:07:41Z
Creation Date: 2015-03-06T18:56:10Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-03-06T18:56:10Z
Registrar: TUCOWS, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 69
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: domainabuse@tucows.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4165350123
Domain Status: ok
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Tai Bui
Registrant Organization: StakeMiners
Registrant Street: 53 Street  No3 Cu Xa Do Thanh Ward 4 Dist 3
Registrant City: Ho Chi Minh
Registrant State/Province: Ho Chi Minh
Registrant Postal Code: 700000
Registrant Country: VN
Registrant Phone: +1.849069632
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: info@stakeminers.com
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: Tai Bui
Admin Organization: StakeMiners
Admin Street: 53 Street  No3 Cu Xa Do Thanh Ward 4 Dist 3
Admin City: Ho Chi Minh
Admin State/Province: Ho Chi Minh
Admin Postal Code: 700000
Admin Country: VN
Admin Phone: +1.849069632
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: info@stakeminers.com
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: Tai Bui
Tech Organization: StakeMiners
Tech Street: 53 Street  No3 Cu Xa Do Thanh Ward 4 Dist 3
Tech City: Ho Chi Minh
Tech State/Province: Ho Chi Minh
Tech Postal Code: 700000
Tech Country: VN
Tech Phone: +1.849069632
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: info@stakeminers.com
Name Server: DNS.TROUBLE-FREE.NET
Name Server: DNS2.TROUBLE-FREE.NET

Somebody needs to send an email to domainabuse@tucows.com (Domain Registrar) regarding this confirmed scam and Boo-Yah! Stakeminers will be gone forever.....

I'm no proponent of anything related to Leroy, but, YFW you realize it's an office building...

Time to do a new comparison of StakeMiners assets between a month ago and today.

As you can see the real value declined by ~0.5 BTC or ~1% while @cyberpinoy is claiming a ~6 BTC or ~5% increase. At this time StakeMiners shows less than 40% of its declared assets: 50 BTC vs 128 BTC.

https://meem.link/i/a/egFz3.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

I won't be reposting all addresses etc - I used the same information that's been posted here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg12721192#msg12721192

Do they have fine print that says they base every claim off the highest market exchange price to bitcoin?  ???

Their fine print sounds like it's written in crayons so I'm not sure:

https://stakeminers.com/terms.php

The bigger problem is that cyberpinoy processes withdrawals based on his ridiculous valuation. Which is great for those who will withdraw the first 50 BTC - they'll get their full investment back. The remaining 70+ BTC is gone though, too bad for the slower bagholders.

You mean he'll actually let people withdraw his coin?

Good point. He's trying hard to not let them... I think you have to wait 3 months to be eligible for a withdrawal and then 2 months to actually get the coins or smth like that.

Leroy's thread is unlocked due him being fucked in the head and forgetting to relock it. HAHAHA I just commented: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg13178223#msg13178223

Best get your licks in before the fucktard realizes his error. HAHAHA

Leroy is stale and boring. BitStone mockery is the new hotness.

Soon, one won't be able to via Leroy's in-the-works Fodorsy Exchange. HAHAHA

cyberpinoy seems to be making off topic posts lately in various threads on this forum so I asked him to come and address StakeMiners issues in this one... let's see what's more important for him - trolling or customer service.

trolling is way more fun.

Is he still claiming somewhere around 120 btc worth of deposits/investments?

"126.42169889 BTC Invested"

I'll update the spreadsheet soon-ish.

As long as you complete before Craptsy goes full GOX I guess.

Do you know a working block explorer for HBN? cyberpinoy's link doesn't work and Google doesn't know anything either.

I need a balance for this address: F5Vcy6RZxHz1JVtSLZzsRsx2iMKFY2VMRw

Presstab has been paid to run an explorer for HBN but it's taking a while to build it... since there's no other explorer at the moment.



{
"isvalid" : true,
"address" : "F5Vcy6RZxHz1JVtSLZzsRsx2iMKFY2VMRw",
"ismine" : false
}

Only thing I can tell you is it's a valid address and isn't mine.

Updated StakeMiners balance sheet below.

A couple of caveats:

NET explorer link provided by cyberpinoy doesn't work so I used this http://explorer.netcoin.io/address/nRAWBySK7wAm57biV9uNGASzWPZhsMPsQC

HBN explorer link doesn't work either and as vancefox explained there isn't any now so I used last month's balance for HBN.

As you can see the total value of StakeMiners assets is less than 42 BTC, or less than 1/3 of what cyberpinoy is claiming to have "invested" (126 BTC). In other words cyberpinoy collected 126 BTC from investors and has lost two thirds of investors' funds.

Compared to last month the total value went down by more than 16% whereas cyberpinoy is showing only a 1% decrease, i.e. the gap between cyberpinoy's lies and reality is widening. It looks like the decrease wasn't just due to exchange rates because most coin balances are down too. It's unclear where those coins went.

https://meem.link/i/a/1EjVu.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

Are you using Craptsy's prices?  If you are, you might want to take an average across the rest of the market or choose another since Craptsy's pricing is abnormal due to their ponzi, scammy style of operation at the present moment in time...

I'm using prices from StakeMiners website. Can't be bothered to do any more involved price analysis at the moment but maybe sometime later.

What a retard! Leroy Fodor just offered proof that his BTC holdings is less than what was stipulated. Must be a B.B.A. thingy that Leroy possesses. HAHAHA

Netcoin exchange rate went up by ~10%.

Bullshit. The withdrawal would have reduced both your "advertised" value (126 BTC) and the real value (42 BTC) so it doesn't change the overall picture. I'm pulling the numbers at the beginning of each month for the last 3 or 4 months. If you don't like it you're welcome to publish the numbers yourself.

Speaking of honesty, how come you're so focused on the ~2 BTC gain on Netcoin but no comment on the 8 BTC (-16%)  overall loss?

For the record I'm reporting all cyberpinoy's posts to mods for violating rules 22/24:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0


You're welcome to edit the ads out and continue the discussion within the rules of the forum.

https://meem.link/i/a/UJakG.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

Sorry for serial posting, last one for now:


I'm not going to hunt your coin balances via e-mail or fax or carrier pigeons. It is YOU who locks threads, blocks PMs, deletes Facebook comments, etc, so I have no intention to waste my time figuring out how to reach you.

I have also REPEATEDLY told you to NOT send me personal messages. I don't trust you and I don't want any private communications with you.

It is all properly accounted for in my spreadsheet. Netcoin value went up by ~2 BTC but other coins went down by more than that resulting in a ~8 BTC total loss for the month.

My "libelous" posts were simply stating the facts, such as the spreadsheet posted above. But if you think you have a case then feel free to report me to moderators. Whatever you think I did wrong does not excuse YOU from violating forum rules.

Ahh uyes except for the facts that your charts are not correct in calling me a liar, since at any time those values can change and your attack is merely at the mercy of the coin markets.

Like I said, That is all we needed to know.

Thank you now we better understand your point and your agenda.

I'm correctly calling you a liar because you claim that StakeMiners has 126 BTC invested. The real amount is nowhere near that. It was ~50 BTC last month and ~42 BTC this month and is steadily going down. Therefore your statement about 126 BTC is a lie.

If at any point the real value of your investments comes within 10% of your declared value I will put "NO" in the spreadsheet. You can achieve that in one of two ways:

1) start publishing the real investment value instead of your bogus 126 BTC

or

2) show wallet addresses containing 126 BTC (or at least 114 BTC to come within 10%)

Again since it just wont get thru your head

So we can safely see your charts are not correct in calling me a liar, since at any time those values can change and your attack is merely at the mercy of the coin markets.

That is all we needed to know.

Thank you now we better understand your point and your agenda.

Get it now?

I'm not attacking, I'm stating an independently-verifiable fact. However you want to twist it doesn't change the fact that you simply do not have 126 BTC, that you portfolio is shrinking, that StakeMiners is basically insolvent because even a modest bank run would put you out of business, and due to the way you handle withdrawals ("advertised" value, not real value) at least two thirds  of your investors would be left with nothing.

If "coin markets" triple overnight I will congratulate you on your amazing luck. Until that happens you either come clean to your existing and potential investors, or I will continue to call you a liar.

And until such time that those values reach 126 BTC - you're lying. Simple as that. Publish the real value of your coins. Why wouldn't you?

So let me get this straight if the coin markets triple overnight I am not a liar, but if they drop from when the original investments were made I am the liar.

Ahh ok I see, so the exchange rate is what makes me a liar not what we ACTUALLY hold. Very interesting concept. thank you for again clarifying.

I did not "lose" anything, we in crypto are all at the mercy of the markets. There is nothing we can do about that, People would have and do see the same kinds of losses in their own solo staking wallets, the difference is with us they earn more stakes more frequently where as on their own not only are they getting hit with low values right now, but the difficulty is so high making it very complicated for them to earn as much on their own as they would with us.

 I am proud to say i do work very hard for our clients, every day. I make sure to provide them with a staking service that creates and is credited with stakes in every wallet every single day. I was even told by a team that we should not be getting a stake every day in their wallet, but yet we do, sometimes it skips one day but then stakes twice the next day. But on average we get 1 stake a day in every wallet, multiple stakes in some.

This is not POW mining. POS takes work and knowledge, you just dont plug a miner in and walk away. In POS Mining, you will get out exactly what you put in. Minimal work will get you Minimal rewards. ill structured wallets will gt low rewards. What people like about our service is they can see the difference mining thru us compared to mining on thier own. I know you guys are all pro POW and don't really like nor understand POS and that is fine too.

EDIT: I do not want to be a contender of anything, Including you guys attack on me and the StakeMiners service, which has never missed a payment in almost a year now. And I do not want to be a somebody, I want to be part of a service that provides recurring income opportunities in the crypto world, something we have very few of.

EDIT EDIT:
But I do not appreciate being called a liar when i am not, I do not like biased attacks from competitors who are most likely trying to garner customers thru their attack, extortionists trying their best to get me to pay them to shut up. I do not appreciate a lot of things you guys do, which I could very well do right back and I do not.

Why can we not just be civil in crypto, why is there so much toxicity and always attacking the wrong people.

I owe Suchmoon one medium size blowjob, extra charges apply for any cupping request. Great post, bud. HAHAHA

Wow, i'm called out for breaking a rule, but you get to lie your motherfuckin' ass off. Call your mother and tell I won't be visiting for fear of catching what you already have. HAHAHA

HAHAHA. No ad, Leroy Fodor? Wonder why. I know. You've been served. Have I told you lately that you're a motherfuckin' retard?

Leroy Fodor, by your last couple posts it's a giving that you're nothing' but a Goddamn con artist, and one day your retard wife is gonna leave your lyin' piece of shit ass. HAHAHA

Ram a plunger up your ass, you motherfuckin' retard.

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers-com/3925/700


2013-May-26: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28321242-I-Need-network-help


16-01-14  01:10 AM: http://forum.hon.garena.com/showthread.php?50436-Match-making


01-03-14  02:06 AM: http://forum.hon.garena.com/showthread.php?51276-Looking-for-Active-Players&p=338370&viewfull=1#post338370


15-03-14  01:28 AM: http://forum.hon.garena.com/showthread.php?51560-Something-really-wrong-w-the-forums&p=339193&viewfull=1#post339193


22-03-14  04:16 AM: http://forum.hon.garena.com/showthread.php?51666-Legacy-Accounts-Still-Work


07-04-2013 01:09 PM: http://forum.lol.garena.ph/showthread.php?51165-Connectivity-Issue-7-03-2013&p=856455&viewfull=1#post856455


11-04-14  03:14 AM: http://forum.hon.garena.com/showthread.php?51958-Why-the-censor-of-the-word-Dot&p=341489&viewfull=1#post341489


15-05-14  05:18 AM: http://forum.hon.garena.com/showthread.php?52312-Queue-times&p=344076&viewfull=1#post344076


July 14, 2014: https://cryptsy.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/4000281083


November 23, 2014, 02:34:54 AM:


November 29, 2014, 08:57:45 PM:


22-December-2014, 10:03 AM: http://www.world-bitcoin-forum.com/showthread.php/64492-Bitcoinbegger?p=563618&viewfull=1#post563618


The following is a timeline of what Leroy Fodor had to say about owning, selling, losing, etc., his Internet cafe there in the Philippines.

December 8 (local date), 2012: Leroy Fodor's cafe burnt to the ground.

May 26, 2013: Cafe operational.

July 4, 2013: My cafe...

January 16, 2014: I sold the cafe.

March 1, 2014: ...my cafe was one of the only cafes in our area...

March 15, 2014: I own a cafe.

March 22, 2014: I own a cafe.

April 7, 2014: My cafe will give you guys...

April 11, 2014: And I have people that come from about 12 different cities and play in my cafe.

May 15, 2014: ...in my cafe...

July 14, 2014: ...in my cafe...

October 23, 2014: Looking for a loan... I ended up selling the land...

November 23, 2014: Cyberpinoy was the name of our internet cafe, (one of the businesses we sold).

November 29, 2014: I own a internet cafe

December 22, 2014: ...a fire that destroyed our first mining farm with solar panels, as well as a 15 unit Internet cafe...

All the above is by Leroy Fodor depicting his INTERNET CAFE sans any twisted commentary by myself, Bruno.

No, lying makes you a liar. You cannot show that you have 126 BTC.


He's not lying the same way Bernie Madoff was not lying about his investment gains. If his bank account tripled overnight the ponzi could have lasted longer.


What am I competing with you at? Are you by any chance lying again?

Read your own garbage that you posted on these forums and on gethashing over the last year or so. Read the trust feedback you left to me and some of your other opponents.

If you want it to be civil why don't you start with yourself. For example you could admit that you didn't find out about bitcoin until 2014, apologize to kano for trying to school him on mining, disclose the full financial picture of StakeMiners, and stop throwing a fit every time you see something you don't like.

But we both know that's about as likely to happen as the "coin market" tripling overnight.

Why do you keep pointing out being at the mercy of the markets likes it's some get out of jail free card?

the fact that POS coins continuously go down in value because so many are created out of thin air is why we have been saying your business is stupid from day 1.

If by some miracle a coin's value goes up by 300% you won't be a liar, but that won't happen. Taking BTC and turning them into POS coins that go down in value is a stupid plan, and the fact you continue to spout your 126 BTC number even though coins have been withdrawn from that and the value of many of the coins has plummeted since you invested in them proves you are dishonest.

All we have asked for is transparency and you refuse to provide it.

The price went up by about 10% from 103 satoshis to 113 satoshis while the number of coins barely changed.

Of course that results in a higher BTC value.

Was it a trick question or did you really not know the answer?

Edit: having read the rest of this thread it appears that you are confused. It looks like your investors gave you ~120 BTC, you used them to buy altcoins which have since reduced in value to ~40 BTC, but you're claiming that you still have ~120 BTC invested.

Any reasonable person would say that your investors have lost 80 BTC.

You seem to be saying that they didn't lose anything because the altcoin prices might go back up again? If so, that's silly. The current price is the current price. Currently your holdings are worth closer to 40 BTC than 120 BTC. Wouldn't you agree?

Your whole selling point seems to be that you can stake faster than solo-stakers can. But you still can't stake faster enough to keep up with the fall in value of the altcoins you own.

The biggest problem is that you are allowing people to withdraw their initial investment even though the coins you bought with their deposit have lost 66% of their value. Where is the shortfall coming from, if not from the other investors? What happens if someone withdraws 40 BTC of the remaining 120 BTC? Wouldn't you have to sell all your remaining altcoins yet still have 80 BTC of outstanding liabilities?

These are the things that are making people "libel" you I think. Can you clear them up and show us how you aren't really insolvent?

He was tricking suchmoon to make the "gotcha" statement that the value of stakeminers' holdings is at the mercy of the market prices for coins, as if that was some earth shattering revelation.

It's not like people have been mentioning that from day 1 and that knowing how the market will react is something you learn via experience so people have been trying to find out how long he has been involved in bitcoin to evaluate how qualified he is to choose which coins to invest in.

I edited my post as you were replying to it. I see the 'gotcha' now. His argument seems to be that since prices change we shouldn't use prices to determine the value of things and instead can arbitrarily claim that our holdings are worth whatever we want them to be worth.

It's worrying that someone responsible for other people's money can think like that.

Those values change so much?  By 75+ BTC?  Where can I sign up for this wonderful service at?

I edited my post as you were replying to it. I see the 'gotcha' now. His argument seems to be that since prices change we shouldn't use prices to determine the value of things and instead can arbitrarily claim that our holdings are worth whatever we want them to be worth.

It's worrying that someone responsible for other people's money can think like that.
[/quote]

It's a little worrying, but this outcome was so obvious that I don't really feel too bad. I also wonder how many people are actually there and how much he is actually responsible for. I don't check the websites where he did his advertising often, but when I have looked through those threads I didn't see as many people defending him as you find in other scam operations like cloud mining, so I'm not sure how many real customers there are.

If he really took in 128 btc and only had 40 btc worth of coins left wouldn't there be some people complaining like when various mining companies failed, when pirate stopped paying, when all the other scams eventually started to unravel?

I just signed up at stakeminers to get access to the wallet details for myself.

I saw this:

https://i.imgur.com/wbQZ6IS.png

There's no price for NET, but that seems to be the only coin held by stakeminers worth a significant amount.

According to coinmarketcap (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/netcoin/#markets), NET is only traded on one exchange (if you don't count cryptsy, which seems reasonable): https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange - its price there is 90 satoshis.

According to my calculations then:


Total holdings = 36 BTC.

If instead we use the cryptsy price for NET (https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/NET_BTC = 0.00000108) then the netcoin holdings are worth:

22581657 * 0.00000108 = 24.38818956 BTC, and the total holdings are worth 40.29092645 BTC.

This is much closer to suchmoon's findings than the official stateminers' valuation.

Note that I took the balances and prices from the stakeminers page and didn't attempt to verify any of them with actual reality.

It would be useful if the stakeminers page could be updated to include a calculation of the current value of the holdings, and an explanation of the difference between the actual and claimed investment values.

Not if he's using long-term investor funds to make short-term investors whole.

People don't complain about Ponzi schemes until they can no longer hide their insolvency.

It appears that stakeminers still has around 33% of the coins they need to pay their liabilities. You'll see the complaints start when that number reaches 0%.

I did the same thing yesterday. To my knowledge StakeMiners uses Cryptonator (https://www.cryptonator.com/rates) for the exchange rates (at least the widget on the dashboard page (https://stakeminers.com/account/index.php) does). NET was showing 113 sat then (edit: shows 108 now so apparently it uses Cryptsy rates).

The Cryptsy issue highlights another problem - there is no way cyberpinoy could liquidate any substantial amount of coins anywhere near those published rates. Yobit and Cryptopia don't have the volume. So if we tried to verify those rates - should we consider the order depth?

Absolutely... there's no way to trade even 40 btc at advertised rates... market depth just isn't there... he'd have to dig into the bottom of the offers to get back into btc...

I checked the market depth for NET on cryptopia. Selling 20 million NET would get you 0.20913306 BTC. There's no demand for it apparently.

I tried the same on cryptsy, but something's wrong there - selling 89k NET would get me MINUS 0.15 BTC?

https://i.imgur.com/I3smMf3.png

I can't see how to find the total buy depth, but it isn't very much.

The next withdrawal from stakeminers could bankrupt them.

Cryptsy's no trade fees most likely caused the negative... either that or they are stating through indirect means they don't have the coin to trade?  I guess there's a third option... Cryptsy truly is Craptsy...

It's Cryptsy, of course you would end up with -0.15 BTC  ;D


That's why he has this in the TOS:

https://stakeminers.com/terms.php

BTW the TOS has been updated with new spelling errors ("PRINCIPLAL") and other funnies (new altcoin policy takes effect "01 January 2015" and section numbering goes 24, 25, 26, 25).

Don't forget "...any balance owning will be paid next month..."

But I really like this one:


In other news... If everyone heads for the door only the first person will get out...

That is all we needed to know.

Thank you now we better understand your point and your agenda.

Get it now?

[/quote]

I'm curious who this "we" is?
I showed on https://forum.gethashing.com/t/ponzi-pos-coin-staking-stakeminers-com/3925/1298 (https://forum.gethashing.com/t/ponzi-pos-coin-staking-stakeminers-com/3925/1298) that the majority of your "team" is fictional when you were trying to push this game out in May 2015.

Tai Bui (CFO) - No longer shows any affiliation to your business. (Showed previously CFO of Stakeminers.com on FB)
Michael Wilterdink (Chairman/BOI) - Shows the only affiliation to your business. Conveniently one of the Core Engineers for NET. (Doesn't have an active FB page anymore though)
Michael Zinck (Vice Chairman) - No affiliation to your business. (Nice FB review for stakeminers)
Nigel Dollentas (Social Media Officer) - Shows no affiliation, doesn't reply to ANY inquiries about it, and also is a writer at Bitcoinist.net . You would think he would reply to clear anything up. But maybe the fact he was UNDERAGE might have something to do with that.
Graham Smith (Secretary) - Hid himself wisely from being affiliated to you.

None of these people, except Michael Wilterdink, seems to be part of your group. None of your customers or personal seem to help sort out the same questions, each forum has for you and your operations.

Huskypower2015 (trustee) eventually did come on the GH thread after he was awoken to a lot of the news we were pointing out about your ponzi system. He made it blatantly aware none of the personal were ever informed about your decisions and had a nasty fall out to retrieve the monies he invested. Then you tried to blame the lack of communications on him. Which is a joke if you knew anything about business and being a CEO.

Who's left, you and MZ? You can tell us because you don't make anyone sign a NDA about your operations or even a good contract or agreement for BOI's/Trustee's to establish fundamental business operations.

We're still waiting to play pretend with you on what office suite you have at Pryce Business Park J.P. Laurel Ave Davao City, 8000. Lemme guess you own the building and don't need to list your office like the rest of the businesses there?

Where is stakeminers registered or incorporated at by the way? It seems like you collected a bunch of aliases at one time and made up a group, then called it a business.

Payouts are just one detail about how transparent this ponzi is.
I look forward to your ramblings.

I hate to come back in here but I need to help you guys clear a few things up.

You guys are forgetting a really important factor in your assessment of insolvency.

You guys do understand that not everyone in our service are BTC depositors right? When we have a withdraw from a person who has invested any alt coins to our service he gets those coins back, we do not give him the BTC value of his coins. We are not an exchange, nor a savings bank, we are a Mining Service and a very good one.

We use a very fair depositing policy for direct deposits, as a matter of fact everything we do uses a very strict Fair to Everyone policy. And we are revamping the new direct deposit system to make it easier for those clients who want to use our service.

StakeMiners was set up as an income opportunity for people. This would include BTC investors as well. The "Cloud" Mining part is the fact that we do the work for the users, work that Stakers who are invested with us understand. A lot of POW biased people do not understand the work involved in Staking a basket of coins at the same time. Its easy to run 1 wallet and stake, or do a POW service, you plug and go, switch out as new hardware becomes available. Staking one cin is very easy especially if you pick a passive coin like Netcoin or Tekcoin. Setting Tekcoin up for daily stakes would be a bit more time consuming, but once completed its all easy from there. But staking 12 cons is a bit more work, and a lot more knowledge. Becasue things that work for one coin will not work for another.

Why should a service that offers people recurring weekly income with no work involved on their part be limited to altcoin users? Users also do not have to deposit BTC they can easily go and buy one of the coins we stake and deposit with that instead. I would even allow a depositor buying a sufficient amount of a Staking coin we do not stake and add that coin for him to our portfolio if he so wishes.

@ pixelpowered

I love how some people like to say things like:



Or "I proved" something, when in fact they did nothing of the sort.

Please understand YOUR opinion is not fact, and facebook is not the only resource about what people do and who they are.

But with any problem there is always a solution, Get a hangout up, or we can invite you to one of the many skype groups we are all in where you can talk to us via video to see we are all not the same person, and we will all gladly tell you to your face we are involved in StakeMiners.

All those people exist, and no matter if you like it or not we all meet and discuss the policies of StakeMiners

Do you or do you not have 126 BTC or an equivalent amount of altcoins at today's exchange rates?

Have you had this amount AT ANY POINT during the last 3 months? Last 6 months?

If part of your deposits is in altcoins how do you value those coins in BTC? Since your "advertised" total of ~126 BTC doesn't appear to move in sync with the market it would appear that you are overvaluing those altcoin-only deposits as well?

It is fucking insane to invest in shits like this with bad liquidity of PoS coins. If StakeMiners try to cash out everything they would get maybe 10 BTC total and crash all markets. Stupid investors!

You know what I loved for a moment in time. Garza's and Milian's (BTClend) politicizing and deflecting diatribes. They were much better at it than you and used some monies to put up a decent front.
I'm not interested in a hangout with you ponzi group. I've yet to see anyone from your group, other than Huskypower2015, talk about your group. Only the neglect as a "business owner" to trustee's.
I asked you for your business registration number and suite number to your office, you know the one your faking on the website. Which is easily available if you were a real business.

Your not a real business and not a real CEO of anything. Your just a ponzi group that registered a site, setup weak social media, and a Filipino call center line.

The only thing that matters when assessing solvency is whether your liabilities exceed your assets.

You write on your site that your liabilities are 126 BTC, and it appears that your assets are less than 40 BTC. That means that you are insolvent.

What am I missing? Some of your depositors deposited altcoins, and so you owe them altcoins? If so, why not list your liabilities as X BTC + Y NET or whatever?


Maybe that's true, but why does it matter? People are questioning your solvency. Whether it is harder to manage 12 wallets than to manage 1 doesn't seem relevant to this question.


It isn't, but again I don't think this is relevant. The most important question is whether stakeminers is solvent or not. It appears from the numbers you have published yourself that it is far from it. Is that the case?

The problem with all of this leroy is that's it's trivially simple to do this thing right, and we have been telling how/asking you to do it the entire time.

You should only be dealing with alt-coins. Accepting and paying out BTC at all can set everyone up for failure because then they have to rely on somebody to make the correct decision on what coins to buy, when to buy them, when to sell them, and how to do the accounting. I know it makes you feel better to say 128 btc than 700 million zebracoins or whatever, but the step of switching from BTC to alt is a major point of failure.

I'm going to use made up numbers and an imaginary to prove my point, so don't' harp on the actual math, just the point of the example. If someone gave you 10k of zebracoin worth 1 btc, and you turned it into 11k zebracoin worth .8 btc, that's their fault for thinking zebracoin was a good investment. But if they gave you 1 btc, and YOU turned it into 10k zebracoin, and then you turned it into 11k zebracoin worth .8 btc, YOU cost them .2 BTC because they would have had .2 more btc by literally doing nothing.

If staking is the future and you are the superstaking master get rid of all the BTC and just start staking, because moving from BTC to various alt coins adds an additional point of failure, and one that is very likely to happen because the price of altcoins almost always goes down.

But... But... Butt... Butts... winning?

No matter what there will always be someone to show glittery shiny stuff to get at least one moron to give their money/coin/possessions away for "investment"...

You'll never get rid of the pure idiots... they reproduce too quickly... and greed drives all of us to do stupid things every once in a while... it's the idiot in us from previous idiots in our gene pool...

Perhaps you could start by sharing your business registration number. Since you're a "law abiding citizen" I'd assume that StakeMiners i fully incorporated under local law and paying tax etc... or maybe not...

---


Cyberpinoy knows all of that. He's been trading BTC ever since it was roughly at 6 cents / coin and he also has "years" of experience as a Forex trader... at least that what he reckons / said in the past but maybe his timeline, history and experience has changed again...

---

As for the "massive" loss on the staking basket, what was StakeMiners thinking when the customer funds were invested (mainly) in "hyper-staking" coins. Anyone with an F in economics would have known that those coins and their inflation would kill the investments. That's why those coins are (at best) proof-of-concept coins or, as we like to call them, "funny money".

I think what stakeminers is doing is even worse.

You give them 1 BTC, they buy 10k of zebracoin, turn them into 11k of zebracoin worth 0.8 BTC but tell you that your investment is now worth 1.1 BTC (because if 10k ZEB is worth 1 BTC then 11k must be worth 1.1 BTC, right? Prices go up and down but that shouldn't concern us).

When you come to withdraw they let you withdraw 1.1 BTC (minus fees, of course), apparently not realising that this leaves them insolvent (they had to sell someone else's coins in addition to your 11k ZEB to get the 1.1 BTC they sent you).

I'd love to be wrong about this, and for there to be a rational explanation for the mismatching numbers we see on the site.

Actually, they're pricing based on current market buy even if it is only <= 1 coin order...  That's the major issue I see... If they value 11k ZEB @ .8btc (.2btc loss) but there only a buy order for 100 ZEB @ 0.00007272btc per coin and then a buy order for 100,000 ZEB @ 0.00003000 per then that 11k will only bring in .334272btc selling all 11k ZEB...

That's what ol Leroy doesn't seem to understand...

Leroy, if you're still actively defending your fraud on Bitcoin forums, could you come back and continue your nonsense on Get Hashing at some point?  It's nice to pop over here and laugh at you but it'd be easier and more comfortable to do it from the place I consider my Crypto Home.

Ta.

You don't have self-moderated locked threads over there... just saying  ;D

Then where does the valuation of over 120 BTC come from?

Using the current market buy the value is only around 40 BTC.

I'm assuming that's only going on the assumption that every coin could be liquidated at the last traded price?

Obviously it can't, but I'm guessing that 40 BTC is wildly optimistic...

120 came from the amount of btc that went into his scam... I mean business...  At least I think that's what it is...

https://stakeminers.com/how.php
"SOCIAL MEDIA You can find us on Facebook and Twitter. In addition we have accounts on several forums, however we have withdrawn from active participation on most forums due to the deterioration in the quality of the conversation related to our firm.
"

He means he gets too many critical questions and can't delete them all or lock people out. Just like all the reviews on the FB page -> https://www.facebook.com/StakeMinerscom-1627849564105692/reviews/ that are one stars.
Oh what's this...
I'm disappointed to see your family now joining into the shilling of your ponzi group Leroy. Shame on you!


I think more people from ALL the forums should review your groups "service".

Still waiting on that business registration and suite number for your office/business you don't have.

Nice graph correction to your graphs as well.

So, instead of addressing all the concerns since Leroy Fodor last posted here, he opted to solicit his Facebook clan to offer up positive reviews for his StakeMiners. Excellent timing!


Thanks to Leroy Fodor's genius plan, ALL those who back the StakeMiners Ponzi on Facebook are now open up for full doxxing, giving that they believe that Leroy's been fully transparent. I'm willing to bet that everyone of them cocksuckin' liar friends and family members would you look you in the eye and confirm that Leroy Fodor honestly did earn a B.B.A. at Ohio University in Athens, Ohio, and minored in creative writing, proof of the latter via Leroy's prose are always near-100% grammatically correct. To borrow a laugh from the jester master, Leroy Fodor, HAHAHA.

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers-com/3925/700


August 08, 2015, 03:58:33 PM: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990219.msg12089689#msg12089689


Aug 3, 2015 11:44 PM: https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers-com/3925/585


December 30, 2014, 04:03:22 AM: http://moneyinpjs.com/forums/index.php/topic,257.msg706.html#msg706


15 December 2014 - 08:06 AM: https://allcryptotalk.com/index.php/topic/403-why-did-you-get-into-bitcoin/?p=2547


FODOR'S TIMELINE:

15 December 2014 - 08:06 AM: I started my own bitcoin mining farm in 2012 complete with solar panels, but lost it to a fire. THEN, we had another fire that destroyed our three other businesses and home. With no help from the rich bitcoiners, we rebuilt, and look at me now.

December 30, 2014, 04:03:22 AM: I got started in June, 2014, directly after selling off my Forex commodity portfolio of which funds I didn't touch, then ~6 weeks later I was begging for a loan on BitcoinTalk so that me and family could get back to "Merica".

Aug 3, 2015 11:44 PM: We started with 6950 rigs in 2011. In 2009 a business man introduced me to Bitcoin so I investigated it.

August 08, 2015, 03:58:33 PM: I did enter into Bitcoin in late 2009. I researched enough and liked the mining aspect better than the risk of trading so i then mined some and sold those to him instead of buying low and selling when they increased in value.

cyberpinoy, here's a question for you. You're claiming there are paid trolls, competitors, etc - do you have proof of that? Name one competitor.

Or at least maybe you could tell us how much profit you're making from StakeMiners so that we could better understand how lucrative this business is. I can't imagine anyone willing to spend money to fight you but perhaps you can prove me wrong here. Thanks buddy.

HaHa  ;D ;D

---


SCAM!!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg13444524#msg13444524


https://stakeminers.com/faq.php




To recap:

StakeMiners ONLY accepts bitcoin deposits.
StakeMiners ONLY pays out in bitcoins.

Leroy Fodor lies about the above in wanting to negate StakeMiners Ponzi true bitcoin holdings as suchmoon has provide while Leroy has NEVER provided full transparent holdings as he is on record in stating that he would when he took his Investards money via ... wait for it ... BITCOINS.

Meanwhile, Leroy Fodor begs his Facebook family and friends to vouch for StakeMiners, ALL of whom have a major doxxing coming since it's obvious they're spreading lies to hopefully replenish the coffers of the dwindled StakeMiners' Ponzi's holdings. HAHAHA

https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12115541_1187364861278409_3904786063935424840_n.jpg?oh=16712c5f6302e642344bfc17c3a6515c&oe=57144DCD
"The Four Horsemen stand behind StakeMiners, even though we don't have a fuckin' clue as to what it is or how our friend or family member, Leroy Fodor, goes about fuckin' folks worldwide from his office located in the tallest building in Davao, Philippines, overlooking where his slut wife, Katrina Fodor, works."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg10769015#msg10769015


Leroy Fodor now wants you to believe that some folks paid in and are paid out of StakeMiners with like HoboNickels, an altcoin that CAN'T easily turn thier profits into cash. HAHAHA

But he promised to create his own exchange!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg13307173#msg13307173


He might as well go all the way in and create his own coin that would stake at any rate he wants. Unlimited profits.

The first altcoin would be named after his mother, Helen of Troy Coin (HTC). Soon to be seen on StakeMiners: We are proud to announce that we are currently staking Helen.

The next altcoin will be the Terrik Syndrome Coin (TSC): Shit!; Fuck!; Goddamn it!; Son of a bitch!; Tits!; Cunt!

He already has. Some, if not all of those coins are his and/or muddafudda/crestington/meee's coins.

Yes.. I know.. you don't want to go there..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=937480.msg13298834#msg13298834

Seems like cyberpinoy has chosen #1 because the market has refused to triple:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1726236740933640&id=1627849564105692

https://meem.link/i/a/q8I79.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

As promised I will change the spreadsheet to NOT say that cyberpinoy is lying if my next set of numbers is close to his numbers at that time. Next update ~ February 5, 2016, give or take a few days.

"KYC Rules - At this time we are not implementing Know Your Customer (KYC) rules. When we are required to, we may outsource this to a third party company, in order to avoid handling your private information. Currently we are not facing a regulatory requirement to do so, but we understand that day may arrive."

Cyberpinoy were you thinking about committing identity theft as well?
You don't have a real company. Why are you making up stuff to do?

The same is posted here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg13512138#msg13512138), too:


Any idea how to find the chart and text covering this issue in more depth? I've been unable to find it, even after logging in.

I see a chart labelled "1 BTC Investment Returns" which shows a positive return for every month. I don't see anything giving details of which months contributed to the 67% net loss.

Edit: maybe I should learn to read! It's clearly stated that it is on the "members accounts, wallet addresses page", https://stakeminers.com/account/wallets.php :

https://i.imgur.com/gH2Imny.png

It looks like the price of the altcoins held by stakeminers fell relative to the price of Bitcoin in all but one month.

What would be interesting to see would be a chart showing how an investor's BTC value fared over time - whether the gains from staking ever outweigh the losses from holding a basket of alcoins.

Not since I started looking into it (mid-September-ish). At that point the picture was like this:


... and it's gotten far worse since then.

I wonder if the withdrawal policy will change now with this new revelation (i.e. paying out 100% of principal that depreciated by 67%).

It does seem odd that people have been withdrawing more BTC than they deposited when month on month the fund has been losing BTC value.

I tried lining up the stakeminers chart with the netcoin price chart (since stakeminers is mostly holding netcoin) to see how them compare:

https://i.imgur.com/2UPo23g.png

Netcoin fell from 200 to 100 from April to December - a loss of 50%. So how did stakeminers assets lose even more than that? And why doesn't the netcoin peak (in July) line up with the stakeminers peak (in May)? Maybe the majority of stakeminers funds weren't in netcoin at the time?

Are there stats available which would answer these kinds of questions?

I think the only way to do this prior to September would be to dig through cyberpinoy's posts to find his "declared" numbers and dig through blockchains to find the real value. I have numbers since September, click links to see balances of each coin:

September 11: 82 vs 107
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg12391086#msg12391086

October 19: 67 vs 117
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg12721192#msg12721192

November 7: 51 vs 122
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg12903420#msg12903420

December 5: 50 vs 128
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg13149294#msg13149294

January 5: 42 vs 126
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167201.msg13448270#msg13448270

Balance: http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/HBN/address.php?address=F5Vcy6RZxHz1JVtSLZzsRsx2iMKFY2VMRw (http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/HBN/address.php?address=F5Vcy6RZxHz1JVtSLZzsRsx2iMKFY2VMRw)

110,415.160647

Here is NET wallet balance chart going back to May:

https://meem.link/i/a/mfdoI.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

Edit: Most of the gains are from staking, so even though the exchange rate dropped he did gain some of that value back from the staking proceeds and I think this also gradually increased NET's weight in his portfolio.

That of course also raises the question where did he get the weekly payouts from if his largest altcoin wallet doesn't show weekly withdrawals.

FYI to everyone.
Leroy will attempt to remove your review from the facebook page. The only remaining place he can attempt to lure people to scam them for his site.
Don't use the words such as "scam" or "ponzi" since its apparently abusive language, even though its true. Be more creative, much like Leroy has paid or convinced his associates to post reviews in his favor as of late.

Its somewhat funny that FB is only concerned with drugs and sexual content, yet if your looking to defraud or scam people then they simply retort with, 'just ignore it
'. Instead of removing it themselves.

February update - looks like cyberpinoy is still lying. He's claiming that StakeMiners has 35 BTC worth of altcoins:

https://meem.link/i/a/FKvqN.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

but I could only find ~24 BTC, a decline of ~40% from January:

https://meem.link/i/a/CTywJ.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

A few caveats. I used the exchange rates and the wallet addresses displayed on StakeMiners website and only double-checked a few Bittrex rates (NET, OK, HYPER). For some of the coins I'm not even sure what exchange carries them after the demise of Cryptsy. XQN doesn't have a working block explorer so I kept the balance unchanged from last month. Most other coin balances (except BITB) declined so it would appear that cyberpinoy is selling them off.

Must be withdrawals...

He seems to have edited "Katrina's" comment and added another one from "Stakeminers". I guess the idea is that a "customer" suggested to get rid of principal withdrawals, like all other "cloud mining services", and "Stakeminers" will follow that great advice. Convoluted in some word salad ("remove from their weight" etc) but the end result is going to be this: next BOI meeting will turn this into full official ponzi with no withdrawals and a slowly drying trickle of weekly payouts.

By the way, "Katrina" - most "cloud mining services" are scams, and the ones "worth anything" actually allow a decent level of liquidity, e.g. Hashnest. It's not nice to lie.

https://meem.link/i/a/Youz9.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

The reasons you are even "allowed" to withdraw "principal" from stake miners are all the reasons they gave at the beginning that they were better than cloud mining.

In cloud mining you can't withdraw your principal because the principal is spent* on miners. That doesn't apply to stake miners because the principal is just spent on other coins that could be given back at any time.

You can't withdraw the principal for cloud mining because you would take a loss by selling the machines, and impact others.

That shouldn't be an issue with stakeminers, unless of course the value of all those coins dropped significantly after they were purchased.

It's too bad no one had enough experience in the cryptocurrency world to foresee that problem when this thing started. Too bad nobody at the time questioned this plan or if Leroy had enough experience to choose the right coins to make sure this wouldn't happen.

O well, that's a shame.

*coins are actually spent on hookers and blow for the thieves, which ironically have more resale value than miners.

You lil FUD spreading crypto-extremist!

Staking is much more profitable than actual mining. FUDor said so!

It's that time of the month again. And I have some good news! StakeMiners assets increased by 3 BTC, mostly due to NET going up from 57 sat to 73 sat. CON and BITB wallets seem to have been liquidated. There is no functioning XQN explorer so I just used the balance shown on StakeMiners site.

https://meem.link/i/a/RCRPL.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

You didn't actually think this is all good news, did you?

I added up all staked amounts for the week and I came up with less than 0.2 BTC. Cyberleroy has been claiming he's paying out 0.4 BTC per week for the last few weeks and trying to maintain a claim of 0.5% payout even though that doesn't add with anything else (0.4 BTC * 0.5% = 80 BTC, not that we need any more proof of Leroy's fail at percentages).

https://meem.link/i/a/RDe74.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

And probably the payout is a bit higher this week (0.83 BTC - 0.35 BTC withdrawal quota = 0.48 BTC). Where does that money come from? So much for "selling our stakes to make our payouts", huh Leroy? Help us understadn [sic] this please.

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/coloredcoin-io-assets-payout-thread/4771/244


https://meem.link/i/a/TLr74.jpg
Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

You clearly took some time and even put together a case against Leroy. But your case is not very strong as you are missing, or have made up, vital portions of the case just to get your point across. This is what I consider misleading people to see your point of view. I never trust anyone who has to make up any kind of data just to finish a goal. If you do not have all the data on hand, then your proof is not proof at all. It is just a personal opinion or an assumption based on nothing. I will give you an example.


Just in that example, the amount would be different. Why? Because its a staking service that generates coins on a daily basis. What I have noticed by reading this whole thread is you have proven you, not Leroy, is the actual liar. It also showed me the pure unethical tactics you are willing to use to get your deluded point across. Picking and choosing exchange rates as you please, picking and choosing numbers as you see fit, safely assuming anything you can to get your negative point across. Then above all trying to use the blockchain as your proof. That chain does not tell you everything. It's just a public ledger of address activity, not proof of everything.

When did you contact Leroy personally about your numbers you keep providing? Did you call him on the phone and ask him? Did you do one of the meetings he is always willing to do with interested people and ask him for that information? How do you actually know what it was he actually sold the coins for? Did he tell you?

No wonder he stopped replying to you.

Thank you for bumping this thread, it's been long overdue. You have words, I have blockchain. You can't disprove blockchain by talking. And Leroy has already admitted that he has lost 70%+ of his investors funds, so why are you even wasting your time arguing this?

Tell Leroy to post his information publicly instead of expecting people to call him. It's called transparency and it does wonders for honest businesses. It hurts scammers though so if Leroy is scammer don't tell him to do that, we don't want him to get hurt.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/50/50e09a11d36e3d0de3fb9183c040d0fa3abdb9a246da659ff1c946e20393f055.jpg

To be clear, I am bullying the shit out of crptoarch who IS NOT Leroy Fodor... But if he were, I would still be sticking it up that delusional fuck's ass. TBC, I will qut if Leroy Fodor paid me my standard 35 BTC extortion fee.

I think you want crptoarch to pay the 35 BTC? Leroy doesn't have that much, only about ~30 BTC in StakeMiners wallets.

So is your claim that they have enough xqn (coin with a 35 btc "market cap" and less than a dollar 24 hour volume) makes up all of the other value they have lost?

There is no need to contact Leroy, Leroy posted the addresses where he claimed the coins were, suchmoon kept track and compared the amount in the wallet and the current price to what Leroy was claiming.

def a scam that posts all the time in james clayton facebook pump n dump group

107btc from 900 investors ? Sounds like none sense talk. I often see these sites with fake stats. You get HYIP's that claim after only a few weeks to have half a million $ and even more it's just crazy. Then people still go and fall for it. Gosh I think scams will forever be around because there is always some sucker around for them to take advantage.

So... I know it's been a VERY long time... but is there any new info on our friend?  Is he still staking away with alternate math?

He has finally admitted that he pissed away 100+ BTC.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990219.msg18933763#msg18933763

Think he's part of the whole ISIS thing going on there?  Almost forgot he was in the Philippines...

EDIT:  Very sad (not really) that I wasn't the only one thinking he would jump in with the ISIS crowd...