Bitcoin Forum

Hello. I keep reading that members should use escrow when using paypal.  What stops buyer from a chargeback against the escrow and then escrow charge back against seller? I am looking to sell via paypal but do not want to risk chargeback. Virowox seems expensive to use although it is safe.

Even if you use an escrow for a Paypal deal, transaction can go sour since Paypal charge back can be filed up to 180 days from date of transaction if i'm not mistaken, unless escrows will release the item purchased using Paypal after the 180 day timeframe

if any need escrow help, i can do it: i do it on REDDIT with my nick canopus11 6/6/10  over 400+ trades, 1,5 years, over 200.000.000 dogecoins trades
exdoge-paypal
paypal-exdoge

https://www.reddit.com/r/dogemarket/

now i can help with every excrow

Paypal is the exception with escrow, same for CC etc.

In my belief it is fair to buy and sell with the same currency ie. BTC and use currency without a chargeback option. Even high recommend and verified paypal buyers can be quite hars if a product is not how they expected. In the past I sold some netflix accounts. Then they got a better deal and without communication iniated the charge back process

again here, try coinimal they offer you to sell bitcoin for paypal, if you need to do the opposite, then you can do it here with a very legit escrow, with possibily no fee, there are some

but i would try coinimal first, because it is much faster then searching for the right escrow

If you are afraid of a chargeback then DO NOT use paypal! Simple and clean, don't use it. Even if everything goes well and you use an escrow you can still have a chargeback until the very last possible day.

PayPal is only good method if you are dealing with known person or institution/service. Never use it if you are paying/buying something for the first time from random seller.
IF escrow has long history of successful trades, it is generally fine to think, he won't go rogue with all your coins, if he dealt with massive amount of money in the past without problems.

The escrow needs to hold the paypal money and BTC for 180 days. Before that, chargeback is highly probable. Risk can be reduced if you deal with trusted people on this forum. Paypal seller protection doesn't protect Bitcoin AFAIA.

Yes, try to avoid using paypal. Even with higher ranked members. Those accounts can be sold etc.

If you buy bitcoin with paypal, then there is little risk to you. But not many people want to sell the bitcoin to you in that way.

well with PayPal's charge backs and what not thats a huge risk.....you could always find safe ways to trade like skrill perfectmoney etc lets just do some research before we trade

Wow, you are all bad at answering the question!

Nothing stops the buyer from initiating a chargeback. The point of using an escrow for PayPal transactions is that the escrow holds the Bitcoin for the 180 days that the Paypal transaction can be charged back. Then, after that time, they release the funds to the respective members. If a chargeback is initiated, then the escrow will send the funds back to the seller and the deal doesn't go through. In that way, no one loses anything except time.

If you didn't misread then the advice was wrong. An escrow can't do anything against a chargeback. So he can only provide safety up to the point where the login was delieverd to the buyer and the coins were forwarded to the seller.

I you want to buy paypal then there are a ocuple of exchanger on BCT that sell paypal. Some of them are highly trusted so the risk is way lower.

I don't see why any escrow in their right mind would have anything to do with Paypal. Leave it to the companies to worry about.

Don't know where you read it but most of the respected escrows here would simply won't escrow a deal which involves Paypal or other similar payment processors which can be charged back. AFAIK a Paypal payment can be charged back up-to 180 days after the payment and no escrow can cover you from that.

Unfortunately there is no way around this and reputable members usually won't escrow a PayPal transaction, you'll just have to sell to people you feel are trustworthy. From what I hear, it's harder for buyers to initiate a chargeback with Skrill, maybe you should look into it.

I would not bet on this. As far as i read skrill is not much different with the risks than paypal. The same goes for any kind of coupon code. They can always claim their code was stolen at the end. If you don't know about these things then there are traps everywhere for you.

Just dont use paypal, if you have paypal you must have a bank account too, just use exchanges that accept your bank and thats it, easy and safe.

Hello

You should avoid using Paypal to buy Bitcoins.

Paypal is quite high risk for sellers, as people can start a chargeback many many months saying it is fraud. In this situation Paypal nearly ALWAYS agrees with the buyer and it is the seller who loses out. Paypal is reversible, same as Credit card.

If you really ant to buy coins with paypal, you should check out the following:

http://www.plusbitcoin.net/buy-bitcoins-with-credit-card/ (http://www.plusbitcoin.net/buy-bitcoins-with-credit-card/)
 
Cheers

But I think he only deal with high value trades now. If you have lower value trades, you have to select other people in the forum.

Always hard make a deal using paypal to buy bitcoin , many times has explained here , buying bitcoin use paypal is not recommended.
And about escrow its depends on who is the escrow are you use .

Hi

AVOID PAYPAL AT ALL COSTS. Paypal as well as credit cards are unsafe especially for sellers. These forms of payment are reversible and a chargeback can be made even 6 months in the future. You should really try and find another method to pay as you will then have many users who will trade with you.

Escrow is not absolutely safe. It depends on the integrity of escrow owner. Some escrow operator is not honest.

Correct, when dealing with a user and a escrow party it's best to use a high rated escrow company, or ask a mod as ascrow.

I know mitchell is doing escrows too. I don't think he would ever do a master-P

PayPal os only safe when you are dealing with payments from and to recognized institutions or traders. Buying or selling bitcoin via PayPal is very risky. I am a victim after losing $500 and my account PayPal account frozen.

I really don't understand how PayPal can continue to offer its money borrowing service ( they borrow the money from their customers). This is especially true when you look at their past misdemeanours. Reports of the $600 million compensation that had to pay some years ago seems to have disappeared from the net. It was because of this that they moved their operation out of the US.

Bitcoin is virtual goods, so you cannot buy it with paypal. I heard it somebody said that in the forum.

Yes i will recommend this legendary member for escrow.
 Everything i have read about him is more then positive! And his trust is very convincing!

I have to admit that I was pretty much desinformed about escrows. Good thread thanks. Now I'm well informed about what it is and how it works.

Escrow is only safe with trusted members here, and even then you still have to make the leap of faith that they won't scam you (like Master-P did and Quickseller/Panthers52).  Green trust is a must around these parts, remember that.  It's a pain in the ass way to get deals done, but with bitcoin it's really the only good way.

I won't even escrow sales that involve paypal.  If you accept paypal it is only a matter of time before you get burned, escrow or not.

Escrow will only provide a very limited amount of protection when involving a PayPal trade.

Escrow can do the following when being used in a PayPal trade:

• Guarantee that you receive a PayPal payment in the amount of what the terms of the trade dictate
• Protect against chargebacks/reversals up until the time funds being held in escrow are released -- if the payment is reversed prior to funds being released then the escrow can release the BTC back to the bitcoin seller provided the seller can provide proof that the payment was in fact reversed
• Prevent a scammer from claiming that the only option is for the person selling PayPal funds to 'send first' to the scammer because "PayPal is reversible"

Point two is important because a non-zero number of PayPal transactions that will get reversed are reversed very shortly after the transaction is sent. Although it is certainly still possible, I would speculate that many PayPal transactions get reversed after 150+ days of the transaction.

The person accepting PayPal funds from the escrowed trade should acknowledge the potential of a reversible after funds being held in escrow are reversed. The release of BTC from escrow should also not be immediate after the PayPal funds are received and the amount of the delay should be agreed upon prior to the initiation of the trade.   

There is a trusted user named BayAreaCoins in the currency exchange section. I bought paypal money from him some times and i consider it relatively safe. One shouldn't buy from an untrusted user though. As long as no dispute comes up inside of paypal then it would not be a problem that a digital good was traded.

Thanks for the trust. :)

Let me know when you need an escrow, check out my service thread in my forum users profile website link.

I would add the point that the escrow can informe the buyer about the risks. For example that chargebacks are possible at all, possible after months through credit card chargeback, that send as present is no protection and such.

If the buyer still wants to proceed then only when he was informed about the risks involved. It's up to him then to accept the risks.

You could wait the 180 days it takes for charge backs to expire. I don't think the average bitcoiner's going to want to wait half a year for their cash though.

Moreover its against papal's policies to buy bitcoins or any other cryptocurrencies using paypal.There are recent cases of accounts suspensions .The escrow is just there to provide assistance in the trade and make sure it happens fairly.Though paypal payments are reversible ,I doubt escrow can do anything in that case.

But i have successfuly get my paypal back recently within 15 days of being scammed outside of this forum. Paypal is always risky so i have stopped doing anytype of exchange for paypal. Thats why i love decentralized bitcoin.
I suggest even you have escrow in middle don't do bitcoin to paypal like transaction.

I offer escrow services, but will not escrow paypal transactions. See my thread in the services section.

I have done trades in localbitcoins involving paypal and BTC, with no problem at all. But I have been charged back unfairly with paypal, with no possibility to defend myself (it was advice given what I was paid for). Paypal is indeed risky, and measures to alleviate this are alwasy ok.

Unfortunately that is not sufficient. Even though it is paypals time this system can still be tricked by paying something with paypal and paypal charging a credit card.

The user then can do a chargeback with the credit card after 10 months or so, in the US, i believe, even longer.

So even that waiting time would not be enough. :D

I think you're not mistaken. I barely understand how PayPal can be used as I see everywhere that you can cancel your transfer in the 180 days after. What's the point of a transfer system if you can reverse it?

Maybe I miss some elements though ;D

Escrow acts as a intermediate between you and the seller. Once you are to buy bitcoins escrow system holds the amount of you as well the seller. If both were received without much issues it will just interchange money for bitcoin with a very minimal charge. If one has transferred and the other hasn't it will just return it back. So this way you can have very secure transactions without fear of fraud activities.