Bitcoin Forum

Go upvote and help address comments!!! Big day over there...

http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/14nwsx/what_is_bitcoin/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/14nwsx/what_is_bitcoin/)

Man I love reading threads like that...so many people still don't get it.

I can sooo feel it, we're just on the cusp of really blowing up. All it takes is a few more nudges in the form of a service that educates and a service that makes it easy to keep bitcoins safe like the hardware wallets being developed and it's going to explode.

I have never felt more optimistic about the future in my life than I do right now.  ;D

I'm not a fan of reddit, but the bit I read there confirms that mining should no longer be the first, second, or even eighth thing discussed when introducing people to Bitcoin.  It either generates confusion or plants false hope in people. At this point, the vast majority of people who will be introduced to BTC will NOT become successful miners.  These people will hear "mine your own btc with your graphics card!" and then get emotional whiplash when they realize they'll only be getting .01 BTC a day if they run they computer 24/7. Now, of course, some people may go on to setup sweet rigs or buy ASCI, but they will be the minority.

More focus on exchanging goods/services to generate BTC, less on mining.

I disagree, but instead of "Mining" it should be called "Mining i.e. transaction validation / bitcoin issuance" which I strongly think would take away almost all of the confusion.

wow, just saw that bitcointip bot. That's awesome.

Unfotunately it doesn't answer my messages ;(

Could it be down or am I doing something wrong?

I think it's far better to simply focus on the P2P-part. Illustrate a bitcoin, how a friend creates an adress on his computer and how you hit send. It's really that easy for the end-user. If mining is mentioned it should only be in by-pass as "the transaction is validated by a computer network spread around the world".

I've seen a lot of bitcoin adoption first hand (on a drug forum), and no one ever seem to ask about mining. They ask about buying bitcoins, and occasionally on how to send them. Here is the link: https://www.flashback.org/t1697563 (it's in swedish but I guess you can use google translate to understand it if you are interested in how adoption actually seem to work for real users, no one cares about mining because it doesn't concern them)

Why are there not more bitcoin tips in that thread? Start sending people bitcoins and see how fast it starts blowing up. You know the old saying, "Nothing motivates people like a check!"

go here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcointip/comments/13iykn/bitcointipdocumentation/

The next someone asks a question like this, there should be a race to tip him. It will be a small cost for every individual tipper, but if a bunch of people do it, the person could get a few dollars and really see the potential.

And it would also motivate jealous people to start a new thread in a few days.  ;D

There is no way that is less confusing :P

Let me throw in a random example:


He thinks bitcoin = mining and if you aren't mining then you can't participate in bitcoin. It's possible he meant to reply to someone else, but ehhhhh....

I've always said the following... never talk about bitcoin mining. Period.

When I tell people why gold is good money, I never discuss how gold mining is done.

If, during the conversation, the person asks "but where do new coins come from", answer like this...

"New coins are created by the network and given to those who contribute to the auditing/transaction verification process."  

It would be good if the creators of the WeUseCoins video would update it, and remove mining entirely. It was probably good to introduce bitcoin to people via mining back in the day, but we are beyond that point now.

wow this is like the biggest reddit bitcoin thread ever. 1100+ comments, 700+ upvotes

I've been spamming replies on it all day (good legitimate replies, that is).  Hopefully discarding some of the myths people have about bitcoin.

I completely agree with Erik - never talk about mining.  It is pointless these days.  Point out the merits of Bitcoin as a transaction system.  "You can send money to anyone anywhere in the world, instantly and for free, and there is no government or bank acting as a middleman."  When you make simple statements like that that people can relate to, they begin to understand why Bitcoin is such a revolutionary idea.

Exactly.  I'm all for explaining mining if they ask, but only in the most generic terms at first. If they are interested enough and tech savvy enough, they'll be able to research that on their own in-depth and probably come out with even more interest in BTC than just hearing me blabber at them.

This is excellent! Good job on commenting over there.

My view on the mining topic is that it should be dismissed fast. What I usually say is that it's required for the upkeep of the network, it's mostly for nerds and that it's the most competitive market in the world. Then I start talking about buying bitcoins, setting up Bitcoin donation addresses, selling stuff for bitcoins etc.

Mining is no longer something anyone can do profitably. It's a losing game unless you really put effort into it. I'm constantly frustrated why people are so interested in mining, probably because they think it's "free money". It will change in time.

I agree, mining these days are reserved for highly motivated individual that is knowledgeable in hardware and software. Certainly not for someone just starting out anymore.

thanks. It was just very slow it seems. Got my replies with account info now.

I think this is such an awesome way to introduce people to their first bitcoins.

Fully agree. When I introduce people to Bitcoin I completely avoid the mining topic (it is not relevant for beginners).


I hope that the WeUseCoins video will be updated. The video is the best introduction into Bitcoin I am aware of, but the mining part is confusing.

I agree with evorhees, sgtspike and technomage that we should not talk about mining unless asked about it.

However I don't think one needs to be highly motivated or knowledgeable in order to be able to mine sucessfully. That's just not true: just order some hardware and off you go, no soldering required. Thing is: the risk of not making a profit is very high nowadays. It's not something the average joe should be recommended to just jump in for the sake of his financial health. That has the potential to turn him away from bitcoin. I think, however that mining should be encouraged to be as distributed as possible in the long run for the sake of avoiding monopolies and/or cartels, but this is a less important issue than making bitcoin accessible to newbs.

Mining is not "reserved" for anyone ;)

Good point.  You should update this.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Public_relations

"Transaction validation" would work fine. When people express concern over the "transaction validators" being the only way coins are created, simply explain that they are providing a service that is critical to the function of the Bitcoin network, and that it's actually very difficult to make any sort of profit on validating transactions (mining) anymore.

I have been tipping people like crazy on reddit over the past 4-5 days. People love it -- even those who have no idea what bitcoins are.

A typical reaction (from the /r/programming subreddit) is: "what the f*ck? you can tip people on reddit now?! AWESOME"

I'm gonna admit, I'm a little butthurt that you didn't include me in the list even though I brought it up first :( :(


It is probably the single greatest thing to happen to BTC adoption rates.  Now, if we could find a way to do this for youtube we'd be set.

We have avatars.  :)

The concept of mining makes the folk suspicious. Creating money out of thin air? Blasphemy! It is a very delicate subject. Some points I feel can help give the right idea:

- Introduce the idea that in a fiat currency the state creates currency units, in Bitcoin this power is simply shifted over to the people, an analogy for which would be gold and the way anyone can theoretically mine it.
- Miners are like the banks and they process the transactions, they do so by solving randomly generated mathematical puzzles which is a lot like a lottery.
- There is no central body so all the participants have to reach an agreement in processing transactions.

It's important to use analogies but at the end of the day mining is best left unmentioned.

Fine, now I have one. Now you have no excuse not to agree with me! AGREE WITH ME!

Then they see you have lied to them and don't trust anything you have to say later, there are very few ways to send BTC that don't cost money and plenty of middlemen getting their cut along the way.

I don't see why people should know about the mining aspect, most of them don't know how ACH processes transactions, so why should bitcoin be any different?

This is a great idea to expand the tips to YouTube.

Also, how can we integrate it with blog comments? That could become a particularly explosive niche. Perhaps a WordPress plugin that connects to the tip bot that allows it to interact with the blog?

With or without the help of the hosting site?  I was considering this project a few months ago.  The basic strategy:

create a website that lets you deposit small amounts of bitcoin or fiat (should be fraud resistant due to deposit limits).  And an automated way to create a tip jar.
users puts some btc in the tip jar and then posts a message on the blog, youtube vid, etc.  The tip jar can do this automatically for the top 5 sites (youtube,etc).

Problems:

1. Verification of the claimant (how to prove that the person claiming the tip jar actually did post the blog or upload the video)
2. Creating trust in the hosting website (i.e. your service), since it is holding the bitcoin.
3. May bend TOS for sites like youtube and/or be considered spam


Tips would also be a great way to encourage bug fixes in FOSS software.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who know about btctip.com (http://btctip.com). Tipping service for Twitter. It's simmilar to btctip bot on reddit.

It's amazing how many people don't get it. What is funny is they are seeing the future of how everything is going to go right in front of them. What is there not to like about Bitcoin?

edit:Also, good jobs to the guys who are putting up the good fight ! ;)

I love BTCTip! It hasn't been marketed enough, but it's absolutely as awesome as the reddit bot... maybe moreso since Twitter is a much larger world.

I agree w/ what evoorhees said about it. It's only a matter of time where all these services get utilized!

Please lead by example. Please list all the addresses you donated to on that thread or people that you made an effort to send btc to.

Thanks  ;D ;D ;D

The WordPress plugin would be installed on each individual blog but report back with the server for the tipbot. Then the plugin could ping the tipbot when a tip needs to be verified and processed. The tipbots would also be able to monitor the sites (but don't eat too much bandwidth!) where the plugin is installed. Perhaps have a blogger API key for installation.

This would solve a need that bloggers have with a way to interact with and reward the community that develops around their blog. Good highly quality comments that are rewarded with bitcoins, by either the blogger or other commenters, would be an excellent way to get bitcoins into that community. Then the blogger could sell products, like ebooks, for bitcoins and spend bitcoins on hosting, etc. Plus, it would help bloggers counteract all the trolls from the Air Force's blog commenter program (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/01/usaf-blog-respo/).

What I envision is a WordPress plugin that works kind of like Gravatar or Disquis where a commenter can create an identity in one place but have it show up in multiple places. 'Facebook comments' has tried to do this but most bloggers do not want their nasty code intertwining with their website. Comment sections often have great content but it is just really hard to find and weed through all the trash. People could make their tipping history public and then others could see where the insightful comments are.

+1

Nice post, I also agree about the update needed to the weusecoin video.

Indeed, mining should not be part of a discussion about bitcoin, and if asked about, you got it with this response : "New coins are created by the network and given to those who contribute to the auditing/transaction verification process."


 I'll translate to french and use it :)

Its an interesting proposal.  A generic tipbot server and then custom integrations with the top sites that solves issues like identity validation.  Last summer it was questionable (in my mind) whether these sites and the public would be "friendly" towards this kind of thing (as opposed to seeing it as some form of spam) but the reddit tipbot and the recent spate of legitimizing news may make the difference.

I wonder if SAAS APIs exist to integrate this with existing online wallets (blockchain, etc)... if so the job becomes a lot easier -- you wouldn't even need to handle the BTC and the additional development care and ongoing security maintenance that that implies.  Regardless, I expect the BTC held by this tipbot would be pretty limited and so not a great target for thieves.

I've tried it a long while back. I don't know, it's just not as much fun as with the reddit tipbot. Maybe it's just the fact that I still have problems warming up with twitter. I never seem to get anything substantial out of it. It's just a spammy newsfeed for me. Reddit is discussion and it feels like there's actual people there.

I'd bet the bitcointipbot handles orders of magnitude more volume than btctip.

bbit, can you use a different avatar? I discard every post of you at the point I realize you're not gavin, no matter how good your post. I just think: what an ass, posing as gavin. Maybe it's just me but I thought I'd let you know.

Please upvote this video as well:

http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/14pt5m/how_to_create_a_free_bitcoin_wallet/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/14pt5m/how_to_create_a_free_bitcoin_wallet/)

Where's Genjjix when you need him?

why do you need him?

He's very experienced in explaining Bitcoins to people.

Dude, you're posing as a deity.  Are you really in a position to talk? ;)

Are you sure I'm posing as the deity. You better watch out, I might have good connections with fortuna! ;)

http://aiwl.us/images/full/scotty.png

/time traveler spotted

Wow, that thread is great! I think this is my favorite comment:
And this response to the above is also classic:
It reminds me of a similar phenomenon I still see (although less and less frequently) in comments on stories dealing with drug prohibition. Some God-fearing, red-blooded, flag-waving American wanders in and becomes confused and alarmed.  ("Drugs are BAD. And BAD THINGS should be ILLEGAL. I mean, everyone knows that ... right?") He's astonished to encounter a well-informed and articulate counterview.  And he's even more astonished to find himself in the unfamiliar position of holding the minority viewpoint.

How about explaining it like this instead:

All 21 million bitcoins were instantly created when Satoshi designed the algorithm. They just haven't all been distributed yet.

That way the mental image will hopefully be coins being taken out of a vault somewhere and given to the miners, rather than the miners creating coins out of thin air.

I like this much better. All the Bitcoins have been created, just not distributed.

I don't know if it is good or bad but rigging a reddit should be quite easy. Consider an issue tracker that treats each reply to one reddit as an issue. The interested community could mark issues as resolved as soon as a sufficiently good answer was given. This way a far smaller group can answer far more posts without all having to read all posts.

A more generic approach would be a browser plugin that allows me to mark reddit users as competent/my team/insiders and the plugin automatically collapses all posts that were already dealt with by a marked users.

I like it. Would definitely use it together with you guys. Call it "crowd control" or something ;).

The EnoughPaulSpam crew of professional astroturfers raided the thread and buried the comments of pretty much anyone saying factual things about Bitcoin, with 40+ down votes each comment. They also introduced and up voted their usual FUD and disinformation.  They are quite the destructive  cointelpro force, have been since the Digg days.

But it was one day too late.  Har har.

However, one comment at the top which contained some concern trolling did get visibility. Perhaps next time such a situation can be dealt with more, ahem, effectively.

All in all,
Well done my fellow redditors.

Something like that could be built as a RES plugin.

what is an RES plugin? (yes, I duckducked it a bit but didn't find it).

Made sure to up vote.  Not sure if it matters as much 5 days later... heh

Soliciting upvotes is a good way to get yourself shadowbanned.