Bitcoin Forum

Hi everyone,

I have an issue with Vod accusing me to have run a ponzi, and leaving me negative feedback that states so.

I have recently shut down my HYIP, Delta Investments, after 4 months of operation. I decided to close down for personal reasons, and on that last day, all investors had their money reimbursed as well as with any returns. Around 19 BTC was given back that day (last week).

I believe that makes Delta Investments the first HYIP to have ever successfully ended in that manner.

I messaged him regarding my decision (twice, actually). He hasn't bothered to respond, but however changed the feedback from "Running a ponzi" to another negative "Ran a ponzi that failed".

I have big issues with flat accusations that my HYIP was a ponzi. I provided sufficient evidence of actual trading activity on how I managed to provide returns to my investors (Poloniex trading analysis), throughout the 4 months. If Delta Investments WAS a ponzi, there wouldn't have been enough BTC to cover paying back ALL investors at once. As everyone should know, a ponzi takes the form of a pyramid scheme, and old investors are paid returns of newer investors. Vod should at least know that, considering the magnitude of feedback he has left for hundreds of users.

You can find my formal post on closing down Delta Investments here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1236976.msg13491575#msg13491575

I don't like having a false remark such as "ran a ponzi that failed" to taint my reputation on this forum. Vod is clearly taking a stance that somewhat abuses the trust system right now, bullying users that don't have much trust.

Unfortunately there is really not anything that will be done. Vod is someone that pretty rarely fully understands situations when he leaves negative trust (unless it is something obvious like a new user asking for a no-collateral loan), and fairly rarely changes his mind even when he previously had an incomplete set of information.

Vod is on dooglus's trust list and you can ask dooglus to remove Vod from his trust list, however being a scammer himself, I would highly doubt that dooglus will listen to any kind of reason, as dooglus has a history of ignoring reasonable requests regarding his trust list.

So let's say I go and rob the local 7-11.

After completing my robbery, I realize I didn't get as much money as I thought I would.  Certainly not enough to be on the run.

So I return all the cash to 7-11 and call no harm done.  I ask people to forget it even happened.

Is that the way society should work?  Your ponzi failed to gain traction so you shut it down. 

I believe that he actually promised his investors a certain return and subsequently gave his investors such return. At least this is my understanding of the situation.

I also understand that the OP provided evidence of some of his profitable trades that allowed him to pay ponzi-like returns.

Obviously such returns are not sustainable forever, but then again the OP did not promise to pay such returns forever.

If this was a ponzi in the first place, I wouldn't have bothered to pay anyone back. I would've kept the 19 BTC in active deposits.

Unless you felt 19btc wasn't enough reward to be "on the run", as in the story.

You can't randomly assume that the sum of 19 BTC theoretically isn't "enough for me", because my intentions from the start were true and legitimate.

You also can't relate a HYIP to a store robbery. Once a robber commits the crime, the wrong has been done just by the action of stealing. Returning what he stole just is a means to clear his conscience.
In a HYIP, the main act isn't stealing. The main act is providing a means for people to receive a return through investment. Returning people's deposits is part of the reason of why people invested in the first place. It is part of the deal- part of the agreement when an investor deposits money. This should be common practice and not viewed as absurd that a HYIP operator returns investors money after some time of operation. Unfortunately, so many scams have occurred that it has twisted the views of many individuals into thinking that returning investor deposits basically seems impossible.

Is his personal information public? If it's not then of course 19 BTC (if that's the real amount he was holding)  would be enough to run away for a scammer. Any amount worth more than his account would.

If he had the worst intentions he could have kept those 19 BTC, used a small part of that to buy a hero/legendary account and try again. Even if he had intentions to scam at the beginning (that we'll never know) I think the fact he gave the money back should be rewarded somehow. Replacing that negative by a neutral would be a good way.

In that odd example you used the fact the robber's identity is known or not would be a very important point. If the robber got just a little money but he's completely anonymous then he could just keep that little money and try again later if he's a criminal. If he gives the little money back (while being anonymous) then I would think he's really repented. And that example implies he intended to steal from the beginning which we don't know here.

If his personal information is public then that would be a strong reason to give the money back even if he had bad intentions. Anyone let me know if that's the case. That would invalidate my point but I still wouldn't leave a negative 

I made my feelings clear with the qualified positive trust that I left for Gladimor after actually reading his trading proposal and approach. I know my trust has no weight but I felt it is important to make the point that knee jerk condemning every single investment scheme on here as a scam becomes counter productive in the end.
I trade derivatives irl and know that the returns that Delta/Gladimor offered are achievable by a trader who understands his market and risk/reward.

The poor joke here is that Vod was 'dared' to leave him negative trust by someone that he had already red tagged. I'd bet, however, that Vod is unlikely to remove the rating because that would mean admitting that not every scheme offering high returns (and unfortunately describing itself as a HYIP, with the negative connotations that that, quite rightly, holds) is a ponzi or a scam.

Summary:
Gladimor outlined a trading scheme, took investors money, provided the projected profits and closed the scheme owing no-one anything after giving notice that he would be doing that.
He doesn't deserve to carry negative trust for that indefinitely and I hope Vod will reconsider.


Give it up, you're like a tape loop.

In Canada anyway, the crime is committed once you have the intent to steal.  You don't need to walk out of the store, or even past the cash register, to commit shoplifting.

You're not a stupid guy.  You knew when you started that eventually you would need to steal from some people - your scam could not run forever.  After the crime had been committed you had a change of heart and decided to return all that you had stolen.

If you have such a moral issue with having the word "ponzi" attached to your account, you shouldn't have started one in the first place.  It's not something the community should forget about.  At your request I was nice enough to indicate you are no longer running the scam.  Everything in the trust is fact and not opinion, so it is certainly not trust abuse.

And another issue arises when you assume that I had an intent to steal. That is just another assumption blindly made to back your argument.

I can easily assume many things of you, as well. I can assume that you are leaving negative feedback for all users except for a couple of HYIP operators you have decided to work with. I can assume that you are trying to eliminate all competition for HYIPs that have paid you to be left alone. I can assume many things of you just as you can of me. Issues arise when there is no evidence backing those accusations. In Canada, we also have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that dictate an individual is "innocent until proven guilty".

You had no issues for months with the feedback when it said you were "running a ponzi".  Only once you took it down did you harass me to remove the feeedback.

You promised up to 25% weekly return on investments.  If you can offer that in your ponzi, AND take home 50% on top of that, why the hell are you here playing with pennies?  Go become the richest man in the world.

The bolded part above is all I need to prove you were running a ponzi, and I know the community would not want it forgotten.  The trust is how I feel about you, and is not abuse.  When you get some proof that I'be being paid to "look the other way", post the negative feedback about me. 

In Canada's eyes - you are still innocent until proven guilty.  In mine, you were clearly scamming.

@OP i am sure You can Negotiate with VOD , how much i know all the bitcoin users are not over bitcointalk.org , and if you close the investment and return the money to investors there is no guarantee that you have returned to all users , may be there will be someone who have not got benefit from your investment after investing.(as in the case of ponzi , last investor looses).
But i really appreciate you for returning the 19 BTC.

Now talking to another Guy , @QS , you yourself don't understand the things , maybe i think you got no job like mexxer-2(saurav) , Sitting over forum and poping then and now to earn some bucks , even i believe you are owner of chalks account , i wonder how can soneone sell me account and blow my cover.
Vod understands the full situation and it is his wish to put or remove the feedback , @OP you need to negotiate to VOD before talking things to public, i am pretty sure VOD is not a bitch like QS , who blocks you on his PM. ;)


Here you see the jealous of a bitch , who wants to get fucked by another dog.(satire)
Vod deserve to be kept in DT  and he is in!
I have a job , i need to go , meanwhile the unemployed guys can keep on bitching around.

I asked you to remove the negative feedback twice while my HYIP was running. You responded to the first message, but ignored the second one.

I was able to achieve returns of 10-25% weekly mainly through Poloniex margin trading, with a side of mining newly launched altcoins and selling them once they got listed on exchanges. Why am I not the richest person in the world and why am I playing with pennies? It's because I don't have the capital.

You don't have evidence that Delta Investments was a ponzi. However, I have evidence that proves that Delta Investments was a legitimate operation that offered returns based on actual trading activity. If you take a look at the original post and scroll down, you'll see various screenshots of Poloniex trading analysis.

And only once did investors get a 25% return in a week, and that was when I made over 26 BTC on FACTOM- over 19 BTC from Poloniex trading, and the other 7 BTC was from arbitrage between Polo and the chinese exchange YuanBaohui.

https://i.imgur.com/V0yAhet.png

Dude, if you started up anything called a "HYIP" on the section of bitcointalk that deals with such beasts, it is absolutely reasonable to make the assumption that you're going to scam.  Get over it.  Vod is right way more than he's wrong and he's probably right in this case.

Considering the number of trusted people backing the OP, I'd say otherwise

Like who, quickseller?

You're on my ignore list for a reason.  Should've just kept on ignoring you...

Vod is backed by himself and who again?
Pfft, we all know you don't have a ignore list. You reply to as many posts as you can for sig payments, at least I accept I do post for signature payments.

Vod strikes again...
Seriously this guy... Should have stayed gone!

Give a kid power and he starts wars everywhere be goes.
We should get together and start a petition to remove him. I bet it will get 100's of signatures in the first day.

He just *assumes* everyone is out to get rich. Even when you pay back loans and prove it he doesn't care.

He is A grade a troll and unfortunately been given power, which he abuses.
He is single handedly the most frustrating kid I've ever come across.

I just cannot write how much disgust I have for him...

Surely if you look at all the dedicated post about him abusing his power, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!

It's funny I stopped coming to this site because of him, first day back and this is the first thing I see. So bloody sad.
The first page in reputation has vods name in 5 dedicated posts.
@cyrus you have to start to see a link at some bloody point

Remove Vod,The Trust abuser,The Extortionist.

There should be a rule with a temp ban (1 week) if a user gives neg trust without any proof - second strike two weeks - third strike perm ban

This guy is over-doing it:

https://i.imgur.com/BssiHUu.jpg

He has some serious personality issues in real life

Why should a troll like him have the power to trash somebodies profile just like that? Mods should take action!

You'll notice everyone of my trusts have a reference link attached.  The reader can made up their own mind.

Of course I am not over doing it.

On NONE of your neg trusts you give you had personal deals with that user, your risked BTC is ZERO with over 100 neg trusts handed out..... your a troll, a power horny, trust abusing troll, nothing more, nothing less.

Pfft post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999074.msg10847125#msg10847125)'s here, just follow the whole thread. And yes there is proof, just read the post...
Quoting sho here

Anybody that states that MSDN accounts are stolen/cracked does not have ANY clue what he is talking about. NO MSDN ACCOUNTS ARE STOLEN OR CRACKED! They are obtained using the official way Microsoft makes avalable.

Have your lawyer contact me.  You obviously don't have the intelligence.

Peace.

Again:

"On NONE of your neg trusts you give you had personal deals with that user, your risked BTC is ZERO with over 100 neg trusts handed out..... your a troll, a power horny, trust abusing troll, nothing more, nothing less."

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...... all the signs of a major troll

Couldn't fit Januray (yup, this is not even one month) into my screen:

https://i.imgur.com/dcxACde.jpg

This pic has troll all over it

Dude read the fucking TOS! Its not allowed to sell those Keys. Because of fucktards selling and buying them people who really purchased those accounts have to deal with stupid rules MS needs to bring up to get rid of sellers....

This is slightly off topic, however it still has to do with Vod, so it is probably appropriate to post in this thread, have there ever actually been any examples of the MSDN codes going bad and the seller not honoring their side of the agreement? Or is all of the negative ratings that were left for the MSDN sellers that say the MSDN codes will go bad and that the seller will just disappear nothing more then speculation?

One thing that I have noticed is that scammers with existing negative trust have sold outright non-existent MSDN codes and were able to get their victims to send first because all of the MSDN sellers have negative trust

Nope and that's the whole point... Vod is somebody who miss-uses his green trust to put red on others whenever he "thinks" he is right. He is policing everybody and everything, putting red trust on A LOT of people that never scammed anybody on this forum whenever he feels like it.

There should be a firm rule that states when user post negative trust proof, with screenshots, must be provided.

are you really claiming something has to be done correct while you do something that is obvious not?? So fucking lol. made my day.

So your logic -> "As long as people do stuff others don't agree with or know nothing about Vod can do as he wants"... did he ever ASK me how i get the accounts/keys? No he didn't! Did YOU ever ASK ME? No again! Did Vod ever TALK to the users he gives neg rep every singel day (130+ a month!!!!!!)? No he didn't. But still the forum is full of REAL scammers that you all don't give a f*ck about... people that actaully STEAL money or sell software that STEALS Udemy courses or REAL HACKED accounts from REAL people for Netflix... it's freakin FULL of it! But you all follow Vod like sheep....

You all ASUME we scam or sell cracked things.

Your logic that ALL users that sell keys are scammers is just pathetic.

Some people do accidents driving cars so lets judge all cars? Sheep....

And with that one lie, I win the argument.

Ok Vod... i'll take you on for this chalenge... please give me ONE SINGLE example where i got keys that will stop working or where have gotten ONE SINGLE account that is hacked/cracked or give me ONE SINGLE example where i scammed somebody...

JUST ONE and i will bow down for you.

Sorry, your lies mean nothing to me.  Send 0.1btc to the address in my profile and I'll do your lazy work for you.

Otherwise, I consider the matter closed.  You and QS can circle jerk each other and talk about how hard I make it to scam people nowadays.   :-\

THIS is EXACTLY what i expected and prooves my point.
This shows Vod does NEVER have ANY proof or personal experience or doesn't even want to point out exactly why he neg reps people on a VERY regular bases, policing everybody.

"Sorry, your lies mean nothing to me"

This answer i just quoted stated you are not interested in thr thruth, the ONLY thing you are interested in, is trust raping people to show you have the power. You are the classic "failed at police entry exam" person that uses the internet to get rid off all the frustration. Again, like i said from the start: YOU ARE A TROLL! You know NOTHING about the people you neg rep, nothing about their business, don't care for proof or does not have any personal interact with those people: TROLL -> look it up in a dictionary.

"Send 0.1btc to the address in my profile and I'll do your lazy work for you."

MY lazy work? No this should be YOUR work since your the only who claims to have all the knowledge and have the super power to pick out the scammers at the blink of an eye.

The proof is out there - you are just too lazy to look for it.  If you want me to do the work for you, I expect compensation.

You are a scammer - your words mean nothing.  If I were to provide you with the proof you asked for, you would not "bow down" to me or anything else.  You would say "whatever" and continue your scam.  You think the mods would enforce your agreement?  

So you see I'm not willing to waste my time.  Pay the 0.1btc or do the work yourself.

Simple as I can make it.

Edit:  I missed the part where the scammer said if I could find one of his keys that stopped working... don't know about that, but there are verified reports of many other keys from similar sellers that have stopped working.  He has no right to sell these keys, so they will stop working in the future.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about... you don't even have a clue! So since you have all the knowledge, tell me, where do i get my keys? Enlighten me mister know it all....

Your a troll that "thinks" he's doing good and hes righteous, yet you have no knowledge whatsoever.

I'm done wasting my time on a "wanna be important" person like you. Your the exact opposite of what bitcoin stands for in the first place, your a control horny policing entity, a person that doesn't even do the effort to listen, one who thinks he's always right and all the rest is wrong.

mmmm did you have read this screen?!? :D

But this is a "different" situation, it sound like a ponzi, but for the first time in the human history some one not scam!!

I think encourage "that an hyip/ponzi" could not scam is a big risk for ALL.

this situation... is a white fly!  first time in the human history some one not scam when give this ROI!!!
We have to wait an eternity to see again ;)

Try to READ a post before you reply, i never mentioned hyip/ponzi, i'm talking about over-policing in general, get your facts straight please.

I see the feedback, next time make a small screen  ??? :-X !
 
But even why you can sell a key with this lower price?!

Sounds strange or not?  ::)

The 99% of users sell with a "trick" these key... it could be "plausible" a doubt about it. For me yes!

I read your topic and yes I need your keys for my Mac, but how I can be sure I can use for "work" and not get "blocked" during a job session??

Give a "plausible" PROOF of your product... It's normal have some doubts in this forum... and your rank doesn't mean anything... you can scam also as a newbie buy a new account and let's go!!

My "plausible PROOF" is that i have been selling Microsoft products and keys for years on Ebay without one (yes not ONE) single complaint.
But here they see somebody selling keys and "they are sure they are all stolen".

On another note: i don't have to proof anything, infact it's Vod who has to proof i am selling something that does not work (scamming people)... call me old fashioned but i still believe in "innocent untill prooven guilty", not the other way around. That should be one of the principals of any community and i personally hate it when it gets turned around, in other words, i hate everything Vod stands for -> a control horny policing person that makes it a day job pointing his finger at other people. We have a word for those people here: politicians. (i agree, that was kinda funny)

we can trust only your "words" because some one buy a key and left a feedback in a limited time period, next he try the license.
If these key are not legit there is even the risk they could be blocked.
If are legit ok, you are good samaritan and you sell for an awesome price! Yes did it! Thank you from all!
But this single key, if I remember could be taken officially from market :) and windows not sell it.... mmmmm
good business!

Same rule applies for Vod, you can only "trust" his words as he NEVER has any proof when he neg reps a user

I didn't left any negative reputation, nor neutral.
But the part of the text that is not bold is also important ;) . And these doubts are absolutely legit...  ::)

I think you'll find he was referring to the original post regarding Gladimor's "HYIP", despite confusingly quoting your disagreement with Vod.
In that context, his comment was spot on and quite funny.

So in other words you are unwilling to provide any kind of proof, unless someone pays you 0.1btc for the work required to research the proof?

Not true,  in the vast majority of cases it's quite obvious that the person on the receiving end of the paint job has scamful intentions.  I don't know about selling these keys but if it's against Microsoft policy then that's why he sprayed you.

he should neg rep 50+ accounts if he believes his rating on me is legit and not abuse but he doesnt so he obviously should be removed if he doesnt stands by his own word/principles.

I had also left neg feedback for OP originally, as I do for any ponzi that pops up in my feed. I changed my rating after his announcement that he was closing the program - was discussed in irc that his hosting provider made him remove the Delta Investments content because it clearly violated the terms of service.

This is some sort of logical fallacy right here, not sure which.  Just because he arbitrarily negged you and not 50 other accounts does not invalidate his neg on you.  What can I say?  Lot of people complaining about Vod lately but the man is more right than wrong and he does give people a chance to mend their ways.  Lottery got his negative trust removed and now he's in the green.