Bitcoin Forum

These are cheap bitcoin.

I honestly do not know. It might be, and then again it might be a moderately bad idea.

If you're buying them as a novelty and not investing heavily into BTC, then go ahead. If you're thinking of allocating your life savings into them, then do it if you want to take the risk.  You need to do your own due diligence.

I doubt that we'll go significantly below $10 unless the whole Bitcoin network fails. And I think we'll see much higher prices before correction. But I can't guarantee we won't be in the $10 to $20 range for an extended time after the current rally is over. On the other hand, I can't guarantee we'll see prices below $30 after this week, either.

What do you think prices will be after the correction? $15?

I honestly do not know. It might be, and then again it might be a moderately bad idea.

If you're buying them as a novelty and not investing heavily into BTC, then go ahead. If you're thinking of allocating your life savings into them, then do it if you want to take the risk.  You need to do your own due diligence.

I doubt that we'll go significantly below $10 unless the whole Bitcoin network fails. And I think we'll see much higher prices before correction. But I can't guarantee we won't be in the $10 to $20 range for an extended time after the current rally is over. On the other hand, I can't guarantee we'll see prices below $30 after this week, either.

So you're pretty much not saying anything lol

Any opinions?

Long term it will go either to 0$ or to 10000$ (maybe a few more zeroes). If this indeed is the case then buying at 26$ or 31$ or whatever other 2 digit number does not make that much difference really.

Welcome to the Speculation sub-forum!

The Rally will fail to make a new all time high,

As the price goes down, people will rush to get their Bitcoins out of their paper wallets and SELL SELL SELL. we will cut down to 18 like 8 million dollars was NOTHING!  :o  after which a unstable year long down trend will bring us very close to 10$, the forum will be buzzing Cheep coins again.

It's either >32 or <2.

The Rally will fail to make a new all time high,

As the price goes down, people will rush to get their Bitcoins out of their paper wallets and SELL SELL SELL. we will cut down to 18 like 8 million dollars was NOTHING!  :o  after which a unstable year long down trend will bring us very close to 10$, the forum will be buzzing Cheep coins again.

No, Its a terrible idea. Don't end up being a bag holder like those people that bought at $32, 2 years ago.

evolve, you for some reason forget, again, that those "bag holders" from 2 years ago can now close their position at (almost) no loss if they so desire. 2 years is a medium term investment. And also, according to wikipedia, The term bagholder is an informal slang term used in U.S. financial markets to refer to the shareholders left holding shares of worthless stocks. Who is holding worthless anything here?

Do you have a use for it straight away?
            /                                      \
          yes                                   no
the current price has                        \  
absolutly nothing to                        are you speculating?
do with your decision:                      /                          \  
BUY                                            yes                        no
                                                 /                                \
                        be an adult about it and do              are decentralisation and/or
                        what YOU consider is right.               privacy important to you?
                        Noone should take this decision                    /                            \
                        from you!                                               no                            yes                                                              
                                                                                      /                                 \
                                                                          no action required        welcome to the future
                                                                                                                         BUY!

The term "bag holders" will be applicable for those holding bags of fiat currency after "cashing out" their stash of 58 millibits at 432,512.36 USD/BTC.

You seem to have left out the people who are not speculating but are investing in bitcoin for reasons other than the decentralization and privacy. People who are using bitcoins as a savings vehicle (kinda like people who invest in gold as a relatively secure way to have a savings).

evolve, you for some reason forget, again, that those "bag holders" from 2 years ago can now close their position at (almost) no loss if they so desire. 2 years is a medium term investment. And also, according to wikipedia, The term bagholder is an informal slang term used in U.S. financial markets to refer to the shareholders left holding shares of worthless stocks. Who is holding worthless anything here?

So, that just means that whatever you are saying is just completely wrong and makes zero sense. Think about it next time. Yeah, and I'm sorry you are not in on the ride, just don't post wrong information and we'll be kind to you. We need funny crash believers here.

There is no guarantee those investors will EVER be able to sell those BTC for the price they paid for them, much less a profit.  The price could tank at any point, and you are naive if you believe otherwise.

The worthless part comes if and when the next real crash hits.

I think holding an investment for two years and taking a 10% loss is a bad deal, but maybe you and I invest differently.  On top of that, the price could still tank at anytime, further wiping out the investment.

Yeah, or you can just wait couple of days and take 10% profit. But if you are investing long-term, buying at $2 was about as good as buying now. Slightly less profit, definitely, but if you are buying every month like yours truly does - your average price now is at about $7 and you can easily continue to grow your position.

So calling you out on using the term "holding the bag" incorrectly becomes an insult against my investment strategies? What are you on?

No. I was pretty much just ignoring your statement because I already explained that the bagholders are the ones who are going to be stuck with worthless BTC after the price tanks (like the people who bought in at $32 and were stuck at $1.90-$5 with no way to know if the price would ever recover).

So no, I wasn't using the term incorrectly, and if you are insulted, that's on you.

I love how anyone with a difference of opinion on this forum is labeled a "troll".

Quite the little hugbox/echo chamber you got here.

I wonder why the bears who are really convinced don't short the crap out of the current "bubble"? It's an opportunity of a lifetime, you can triple your available money easily by shorting from 30 to single digits!

I wonder why the bears who are really convinced don't short the crap out of the current "bubble"? It's an opportunity of a lifetime, you can triple your available money easily by shorting from 30 to single digits!

Bitcoin-cheerleading-group-think

You are delusional if you don't think this forum (and particularly this subforum) isn't ridden with this.

So,  unlike those who bought at $32 who would currently be able to cash out with a mild 10% loss.

evolve, you for some reason forget, again, that those "bag holders" from 2 years ago can now close their position at (almost) no loss if they so desire. 2 years is a medium term investment. And also, according to wikipedia, The term bagholder is an informal slang term used in U.S. financial markets to refer to the shareholders left holding shares of worthless stocks. Who is holding worthless anything here?

So, that just means that whatever you are saying is just completely wrong and makes zero sense. Think about it next time. Yeah, and I'm sorry you are not in on the ride, just don't post wrong information and we'll be kind to you. We need funny crash believers here.

Only because bears have shitty arguments.

I wonder why the bears who are really convinced don't short the crap out of the current "bubble"? It's an opportunity of a lifetime, you can triple your available money easily by shorting from 30 to single digits!

all you guys are idiots.

@piramida, you actually said: "So, that just means that whatever you are saying is just completely wrong and makes zero sense." why the hell are you so mad?

@humanitee, you're contributing to the echo chamber. you either haven't been around long enough or have forgotten how sentiment affects the attitudes on the forum through very, very strong groupthink. "bears have shitty arguments" is such a stupid thing to say. markets go up, markets go down.

@piramida, if you thought for 2 seconds you'd understand why people aren't shorting the hell out of bitcoin. nobody knows for sure what will happen next. in fact, YOU DON'T KNOW it won't plummet to $10 in the next five minutes. but shorting is incredibly more risky than holding.

and @evolve, i know you're a bear. i think we are overbought too. but the buying pressure we saw after the last sell-off was incredible. try to tone down the gloom and doom it just sounds like you're trying to herd lemmings.

all in all, these forums shouldn't be bulls vs. bears but rather open, unbiased discussion. put your damn wallets away and let's talk seriously.

So what matters then?
Since you did ragequit the discussion in my thread I don't grant you any complaining rights.


I know some of my posts may seem offensive, but that doesn't mean they are intended to be.

Are you talking to me?

yes I don't usually quote posts which aren't a direct response to an ongoing argument.

Quote me a ragequit? lmfao.

My last post was laughing at adam for saying that market wouldn't go up anymore as it was rising.
The post before that was just a quote from the website you linked.

So far most replies I get from bulls are more the kind of: "Right but that doesn't affect the market that much."
Everybodies view is distorted but you can't reply to every issue with the same argument.

Hehe, well Electric, a lot of the bears are relying on the argument that markets go up and down, so we are due for a down. I think even you can aknowledge that is pretty weak logic as well. To me that is like a compulsive gambler at a roulette table justifying his bet on red with the fact that black has been the result in the last 9 spins.

all you guys are idiots.

@piramida, you actually said: "So, that just means that whatever you are saying is just completely wrong and makes zero sense." why the hell are you so mad?

Yes. Now is a good time to buy $29 bitcoins.   ;D

Current MtGox price: $31.07

If you did buy bitcoins at $29 or higher, I'd keep a close eye on the market.  I think lots of people are about to get burned really bad.  Once this thing gets moving it's going to be big and affect the market for a long time.  We went too high too fast again.

If you did buy bitcoins at $29 or higher, I'd keep a close eye on the market.  I think lots of people are about to get burned really bad.  Once this thing gets moving it's going to be big and affect the market for a long time.  We went too high too fast again.

lol.
Bears still have shitty arguments! Bears simply have nothing other than "yo this is a bubble because it was a bubble bubble bubblespeak bubble."
Maxing out technical indicators means jack shit in a deep bull trend, which Bitcoin is undergoing.

I became even more bullish when I saw cypher was getting avalons (:o).

tell me more about this deep bull trend (http://s16.postimage.org/6h2a1fn2t/consolidatingmarket.png).

hint: indicators give you insight as to how 'deep' it really is. i saw the rally losing steam before the price tested the bottom support. it's finally broken through. good luck bulls.

That chart starts at $20, and its linear. This rally started at least as far back as $14! And use log scale, we're still in the channel..

so your channel is better than my channel? these lines are arbitrary [read: not scale-invariant]. my chart simply shows that short-term momentum is sagging and we are now consolidating.

edit: also, look closer, it's actually a log chart. you really know what you're doing. :P

tell me more about this deep bull trend (http://s16.postimage.org/6h2a1fn2t/consolidatingmarket.png).

hint: indicators give you insight as to how 'deep' it really is. i saw the rally losing steam before the price tested the bottom support. it's finally broken through. good luck bulls.

think of all the people sitting on stacks of 10k bitcoins ...

tell me more about this deep bull trend (http://s16.postimage.org/6h2a1fn2t/consolidatingmarket.png).

Alright, back from the weekend and ready to watch the correction intensify.

Alright, back from the weekend and ready to watch the correction intensify.

Alright, back from the weekend and ready to watch the correction intensify.

Welcome back.

I have important question. Did we seen top for this year?

Probably.  Hard to imagine buying past the recent 2013 high.  We're very likely in correction territory.  Probably just need one more large player to made the change definitive, and then we'll see the herd race each other to the door.  We could still very easily see single digits as downward momentum builds.

Watching that downward momentum build and build...

your response is ignoring entirely the context of my post.

first, channels are not definitive. it 'tested' the support at $27, but recovered quickly, unlike his time around.

second, i'm not saying that there won't be an upside breakout of this particular triangle consolidation. no one can predict price movements with 100% accuracy.

now, let's look at the context:


the indicators are still saying reversal territory. you can follow along in my analysis thread here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=143942.0). i actually predicted the first testing of the support i outlined above in that very thread, and the 'deep bull trend' which has been going on since $14 is clearly losing steam. i was pointing out to humanitee that indicators are important, and helped predict the weakening of the trend, which leaves it vulnerable to the coming correction of this large price movement.

in other words, he claimed all is well in the rally, so my indicators are worthless. i countered with a chart demonstrating how the price momentum is falling off in the short-term. if in the mid-term (uninterrupted rally from $14 to $30) we are aching for a correction, then when price falters in the short-term it is a significant risk.

Where??

But once we build a huge downward momentum, somebody comes in, buys 20 BTC and the rally reignites!  ;D

Above silver and below an all time high. The perfect place to stay for a while attracting attention.

I'm also extremely short, hoping for a flash dump.

What do you mean by "extremely short", if you mean you sell bitcoins you have borrowed, then may I ask where did you borrow them?If you are saying "extremely short" by selling out almost all your bitcoins, (but still hold a little), then you are actally "long", there is nothing short. And you have parked fiat money there, you youself are already a factor that makes a down-trend hard.

My bad, I ment shot in the not leveraged way! Besides I'm never all long or short. In stable periods I reset to 50%/50%.

So if we stay at $30 for a month or so, I buy in again and maintain my 50%/50% Dollar value ratio by selling less and less on the way up.

Srsly, whats the merit of fractioning one's position aka never going "all-in"?
I understand that it makes sense when you trade on margin, but other then that, whats the point?
Id really like to understand your reasoning behind it.

If you have 100% bitcoins, and there is found a hole in the code which makes bitcoin worthless, then you are left with nothing. If you have 100% USD, and the fed prints a gazillion dollars overnight and everybody switches to bitcoin before you wake up, you miss the rocket and are left with nothing. Therefore, it makes sense to have some percent in each currency to lower the overall risk.

It's method that doesn't cost you more than half your money in the event of the crash out of the blue that ends Bitcoin. At the same time I'm sure that I'll get half of the value of the future all time high on my long position.

In a bear market I buy for 50% of my funds or more in the bottom of crashes and sell when the bounce back rolls off, thats where I make all of it worth while big time.

So the bulls would be laughing that Iv'e only made a doubling since $7, but I've had almost zero risk and any black swans or extreme rallies are only good news to me! ( I missed Pirates crash on the 8'th of August, sadly or I would be up 3-400% instead)

I don't either need to care about what is going to happen to Bitcoin or speculate which way it goes. It's a lot less stress full. I do however, have a live ticker on my person 24/7.

If more people traded like this, price wouldn't move much, so thanks for your recklesness.

Probably.  Hard to imagine buying past the recent 2013 high.  We're very likely in correction territory.  Probably just need one more large player to made the change definitive, and then we'll see the herd race each other to the door.  We could still very easily see single digits as downward momentum builds.

Whoops, new high again.  ;D

Whoops, new high again.  ;D

Hey! proudhon removed his "I predict single digits in 2013" tagline.

It is still a good idea to buy now - the rally is hardly over. There will be small corrections, but most people accept a state of "permanent rally" now and will purchase BTC when the price gets any bit lower.

Just thought I'd drop this here for chuckles  ;D

Remember that statement when we hit single digits again.

So the bulls would be laughing that Iv'e only made a doubling since $7, but I've had almost zero risk and any black swans or extreme rallies are only good news to me!

I only put play money in btc, basically I look at it as gambling. I only have a few hundred bucks in the system total, so "serious profit" is a relative term. I would never risk my retirement or savings to the BTC market.

My main (real) investments are in stocks, which is still fairly risky, but less so than BTC Imo.

There are still plenty of good dividend plays from solid companies.  ??? Or are you talking about taxes on DRIPs? (because you dont pay taxes on that until the stock is sold).

But yes, investing in stocks requires faith (though much less than BTC IMO).

I will here and now buy 1000 bitcoins at $29 - anyone willing to sell to me?
$29 -  think of all the amazing things you could buy with those $29000 dollars - a fiat car?
What bitcoin user doesn't love fiat?

(Don't be greedy and believe the ones that say it's $20 - they themselves will buy at $25 and leave you nothing..)

Right now I would consider selling the stash at $42. I think there is above-average chance that you can buy it back at $29.

(Don't be greedy and believe the ones that say it's $20 - they themselves will buy at $25 and leave you nothing..)

These are cheap bitcoins.

#1 anwser.

/thread.

Always buy!

Any opinions?

How much are you selling at $42? ;D

I never got the chance. Price shot up soon afterwards and is now even though I enter $42 to the "ask" field, they keep on giving me 55 or 60 for it.

Bitcoin is broken, qed.  :(