Bitcoin Forum

Once again , Bitfinex has been hacked (https://bitfinex.statuspage.io/) and I just want to ask you people , have you learned the lesson yet ? I assume not otherwise you wouldn't keep your funds in an exchange (I'm not speaking with those who kept their bitcoin for short period of time , those accidents happens but I'm mostly speaking for those who had their bitcoins laying there for weeks/months)

I'm not trying to be rude or anything but for the last time , please ... please ! Just withdraw your funds from exchanges . I'm not sure what you got to lose here , this procedure will only secure your coins and make you safer.

I'd say no. The people who had lost considerable amounts of money there, are at fault, not Bitfinex. Nothing is unhackable, and online exchanges are generally valuable targets for various hackers. It seems like the people in question (who suffered losses) have learnt nothing from Mt.Gox, Cryptsy and so on. Generally, if Bitcoin is stored on an address to which you do not hold the private keys to, then you do not own them. In this case: If it is stored in such a multisignature implementation where online services can just avoid you and move the money from the address, then you don't own them either.

Exactly. I pulled some that I had left on Bitstamp as soon as Bitfinex went down.

I guess most people affected are those who earn bitcoin by trading the exchange. Their coins are mostly in the exchanges so that they can trade anytime without waiting for deposit time (1 to 6 confirmations depending on the exchange)- opportunity cost. Besides, they do not need to pay extra for the withdrawal.

Until now no one knows who is the hacker(s)... External or even "internal"?

obviously not and they probably never will. people are dumb and is definitely easier to let the coins be exposed on some exchanges/online wallets than to learn how to properly store the coins. other people are just lazy. to lazy to keep their money safe (same thing with backups). those things are easy. i am not talking about people checking how the exchanges store the coins etc

yes you right, we should not keep more money on exchanger sites which is the risky one . Always exchange it in time and best is not keep complete money on exchange sites. Best is to convert it to fiat  and use it for need.

Prior to the recent breach, Bitfinex was claiming that they were using secure cold storage and multisig. It's not like users didn't get a warning with Bitfinex's outages, unprofessionalism and previous breaches recently but this false advertising was so over the top.

I've historically been a big advocate of decentralized exchanges but I think in this case the problem is actually much deeper. Here, we have an entity that -has- to manage the state of coins based on real world outcomes as part of their value offering (which is something many merchants have to do, whether they be stock markets, exchanges, and many kinds of other businesses.)

In my view, what's needed is a way to lock coins to a new address type that forces a delayed clearing process for all coins transferred from that address. Transactions could then be revoked by the owner during the clearing phase which would become progressively less likely as the clearing phase progresses. This would be a very simple way to detect fraudulent transactions before its too late, as well as to allow for the creation of cryptographically provable accounting records (with browse-based signing) to be tied to the clearing process for withdrawals.

In English: this would allow an exchange to detect when something doggy was going on with withdrawals without imposing the same limitations of a decentralized exchange (like low liquidity and poor usability.) It would be the best of both worlds which would be great for not only exchanges but all kinds of merchants who are forced to handle Bitcoins directly as part of their business practices.

I never hold my money anywhere else than my wallet or somewhere safe. Any website can be hacked anytime. Who would keep their hundreds of thousands somewhere else than their safe/wallet? No one. Same thing goes with BTC. I guess most of us learned the lesson now, but there still are a few not caring about the money. They won't care until it happens to them too.

I just leave 10% of my coins on the exchanges to do some trading. Maybe I should also withdraw.

I have no problem waiting several confirmations personally . If that means that I won't lose my coins. I'm not sure about you but I personally prefer to wait up to 1 hour instead of losing hundreds/thousand or million of dollars.


I don't get this one either , how could use Multi sig + cold storage and still get hacked for millions of dollars ? I will take my chances and say that this is an inside job.

They claimed that they had used cold storage? Source?

Much sharper than the majority of the rusty tools in the Bitcoin ecosystem. I've yet to suffer a singular loss of any scam, hack and whatnot. Even though a decent amount of people keep advising against keeping coin on exchanges, web wallets and whatnot, people still keep at it.

I couldn't care less about day-traders, and they aren't the people that I was referring to.

I may have incorrectly written my statement. However, as long as you keep blaming the services for hacks (nothing is unhackable), you will keep suffering losses.

There was no cold storage layer. Multi-signature can be hacked by compromising the keys which were all apparently stored at the same layer.

Might be a stupid question:
Would it bring more safety if withdrawls on exchanges would be only possible to addresses the user gives his ok to in advance?
Maybe one when he registers, and others only after a certain time period? Let's say a week after the address is applyed at an exchange?

Re-using addresses for such huge amounts ain't a good idea either. Generally, it would be more safe to do that. However, this is a better suggestion and worthy of a new BIP (IMO):

I would like to urge everyone owning Bitcoin to verify 3 things:

1) Pls check if your bitcoin provider is well reputed, backed by top class investors and has a strong engineering team
2) Ask them how they store your bitcoin - how much is stored in hot wallet vs. cold storage
3) Do they have 2 factor authentication enabled for all accounts? 

Regards,
Tiyo from BitX
https://bitx.co

android app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.bitx.android.wallet
ios app: https://itunes.apple.com/id/app/bitx-wallet/id927362479

Stop spamming with your barely hidden ad message. Less competition means that you will get more customers anyway, you don't need to spam each topic ...

The answer is a decentralised exchange.  fortunately it already exists. this will be huge: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=829576.6140

Remember that there is a lot of people that sent btc on the day of hack there, to trade.
These are real victims, people which stored bitcoins for many weeks were designated to lost their money anyway sooner or later on this exchange or on another.

Last time I left Bitcoins was on mintpal that was lesson for me. I didn't loose much money there but still it was from my pocket. Since then I don't trust any exchange to keep my hard earned money there. I downloaded Bitcoin's desktop wallet and have all my funds in my possession. This was another shocking news when I heard last night about Bitfinex's hacked.

I've found that claim as well on their website, which can be viewed though Google Cache.
Source: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:UvrqjyGeBZYJ:https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/30

But I've also read a couple of articles that claim they were not using any cold storage.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160324083244/https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/security


<sub>Multi-sig Hot wallet
- Provided by BitGo (BitGo FAQ)
- Only holds minimal amounts (~0.5% of customer funds)</sub>


I am a bit confused by their statement: does the hot wallet only hold 0.5% of customer funds? Where are the remaining? (99.5%)

It is quite amazing the amount of BTC that was purportedly taken in one foul swoop and there does seem some inconsistencies with the 'security' layers that were 'hacked' into - this should well all come out in the wash in time... Whatever the case, in that the general public to advanced traders - the ripples from this latest loss will spread far and wide; even down to a mining level especially after the recent reward halving, let's hope the smaller guys will get some remittance for the funds lost. I am not forgetting about the bigger fish but they can take blows easier and with less consequence than us mere mortals.

After MtGox, Mintpal, Cryptsy and now Bitfinex, people should learn to not use exchanges as
your Bitcoin / altcoin wallet. Store coins you don't use for daily trading in you own wallet, preferably
in an offline wallet ( hardware or paper ).

They cant help it, traders need to store some amount of Bitcoins in their wallets in exchangers so if there's an opportunity they can buy or sell immediately. Traders may lose their opportunity because of transferring in and out of your exchange wallets and there maybe some fees to be deducted if its being transferred out.

I'm very sorry if anyone lost their money and I'm sure hackers will not be happy with what they have stolen. Yes, if you have more than 20 USD in an exchange or anywhere else it's better to withdraw the money to your wallet and don't leave them for hackers to steel.

That's been said, I think Bitfinex, or any other site which was hacked, should return all the money to the users who lost them because it was their responsibility to prevent the hacking.

Well , I assume the hacker got his hands on the private key of the main wallet that Bitfinex use ? I don't think he hacked multiple user accounts otherwise that would be a good suggestion I guess but once again ... people will lose control over those addresses and that could be another problem.

Lol, an unlicensed exchange will not be able to ask for help since the whole site was not legal.
Forget about getting money back, look at mt gox and cryptsy...

great point! i said the same since months ago. how can someone use an unlicensed exchanger in order to store/trade a lot of cash? they deserve their faith now.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1573336.msg15793815#msg15793815

People will never learn! Biggest examples are mt gox, mintpal,, cryptsy and still they leaving coins in the exchanges, if met people where leaving also pos coins on a exchange! Not for trading note that!
In been lost money from trading and even from back door wallets for shitty coins! But no even once btc! Because I'm keeping my funds to my cold wallet! It is easy but for some people it's just not worth the effort? 💵💰.

People are too addicted to margin and liquidity to listen. Bitfinex is a special case though considering how many times they've ballsed up and as far as I know they've never compensated people who were margin called purely because of Bitfinex's fuckup.

Bitcoin does need active traders. Without them not a great deal happens. But there has to be a way they can trade safely.

Condolences to you guys who use Bitfinex, I myself almost wanted to do a trading on that site. I already interested to do that, I even have signed up there. But don't know why, I just felt like I don't want to do it that time. Luckily my hunch was correct, so my Bitcoin saved from this incident.

I am holding my bitcoins on Yobit, now I am afraid a bit for my money there. Planing to withdraw everything I have there, just waiting a bit to the price rise a bit. By the way, when the price for bitcoin gone down yesterday, the price on Yobit stayed on pretty high level, like official was 529$ and on Yobit it was 585$. I wander why?

ok just confirmed that the cold storage thingie was there before the migration to bitgo in mid 2015

Just the same thing. Created an account but didn't move any coins there, still not sure why.

And then on Jul 27 they posted such news:

Jul 27, 2016

Platform issues

Resolved - We have got everything fixed and back to normal, the maintenance page has been taken down and trading is live.
 Jul 27, 02:34 UTC 

Update - We're currently running some last tests before bringing everything back online, hope to be back soon. Will have another update here shortly.
 Jul 27, 02:23 UTC 

Update - Positions will be the same as when trading was halted. We're currently working on returning everything back to normal. In the meantime we've put up the maintenance page. We'll continue to post updates here and on twitter (@bitfinex)
 Jul 27, 00:18 UTC 

Identified - We have identified the issue and are currently working on a fix.
 Jul 26, 23:59 UTC 

Investigating - We are actively investigating issues with the platform. We will keep everyone updated on here and twitter @bitfinex as we know more.
 Jul 26, 23:56 UTC

So after that I thought it would be unreasonable to move any funds there...

As we can see now, it often happens like this - a major problem causing some "maintenance" together with freezing all the trades and withdrawals, then a post of joy like "we have fixed it!", and then the end of story. The same scenario as it was with Cryptsy only that it was during a longer time frame there.

Anyone shouldn't have deposited or even traded there after Jul 26, at least for a while, but wait and see what would happen next.

Thats an easy question, yobit has less volume daily, the biggest exchanges handling more then 5000 bitcoin daily reacted to the news, yobit members didnt droped their bitcoins as some people made if not the hacker already dumping the coins. I trust blockchain i dont wanna be forced to install an wallet into computer again, but if something similiar this happens again it will be the way to protect my portfolio.

Thank you for that. I haven't visited Bitfinex often so I would not know myself. This is interesting, and from what I can gather:
1) This information was false to begin with (their staff member on reddit claims that there's no cold storage layer).
2) Something/someone made them change the way that they hold their coins which ultimately led to this.

So the information on the website was just outdated?

Ye Bitcoin does need active traders, and that's what all these 'I told you so! You deserve to lose your Coins!' sayers don't understand.
Bitcoin IS speculation, Bitcoin IS trading.

If you take away the speculation from Bitcoin, you have two guys purchasing alpaca socks left.
But then we could also stop the blocksize debate, as there would simply no transactions at all, that's a good thing I guess.


- Never used Bitfinex - lost no funds.

Do you have any suggestion on how to margin trade without keeping the coins on the exchange? Please don't answer "don't margin trade" :P

Speculation on exchanges has almost nothing to do with transactions.

The VERY small amount of transactions are simply when you give your BTC to the exchange (yes you are giving it to them) or get some of it back (or in this case none)

trade only the necessary, can you use api to send fund automatically, after you take profit?

Trading and taking profit is not like going shopping and then leaving the shop until next week. You enter again to shop more. You spend more time inside the shop than outside. At the time of the hack my position was 10.70 BTC short. How can one be short while having their coins in their personal wallet?

gladly never save any money on exchanger because it's like gambling,you can lose anytime even it's rarely happening
well this is not going to work,every withdrawal need confirmation and every confirmation need time,and trading don't tolerate you about the time

Unfortunately, no. I wouldn't know a good way to do this if you're a trader. Users can and should stay away from both web wallets and exchanges (and other online services), as in they shouldn't keep their coins there. As far as 'normal' trading is concerned, the only good(?) alternative seems to be (I haven't tested it myself): Bitsquare (https://bitsquare.io/).

---

I guess (and hope) that this event will further evolve the systems that are being used by exchanges.

I would guess that arbitrage between exchanges and transfering funds to altcoin exchanges and so on (e.g. poloniex) does create significant trafic.
As I don't have numbers for this asumption I might be wrong, but I doubt that it is only a VERY small amount of transactions.

I predict that must be bitcoin lose trust, not totally, but for some people for sure. But the problem was not in bitcoin, the problem was in the site's security and it only shows us that to hold our bitcoins online is not so saved. Does anyone have USB wallet? Not so long time ago my friend received it by post from some campaign he took part in. Maybe that way is more saved, it has some personal security protection that you create yourself. If anyone have it say your opinion, please.

Lesson learned, don't use exchange, don't trade bitcoins, put all your money in the bank.

Exchanges are fine. Just understand the inherent risk of having your coins in a wallet to which you don't have some key access.

If you don't have the key, you don't have the coins.

is there an actual way to keep bitcoins safe? I mean, that's the price you pay for all the benefits bitcoin brings and not having a centralized from of control.
People there took that risk and now they are paying for it, plain and simple. if you want your money to be "safe" you should use a bank instead.

yes i have been learn it since cryptsy got hacked and my friend lost his funds on those exchange i have strong reason to not trust them 100% and currently i personally more prefer to save all of my bitcoin to my own wallet because i could get full access and control all of my funds but in exchange i could not able to do that

I assume banks don't get robbed or hacked ?
It's possible to secure your bitcoins , even more secure then putting them into a bank If you know what you are doing of course. Paper wallets could be an option .however, don't run a desktop wallet and download some "Bitcoin-generator.exe" then expect it to be safe.

if everyone does this BTC will simply die.


Most of the reason BTC works is exchanges like this stand to turn some profit on trades and speculators.

This is very simple  btc  transactions  run 300,000 per day on average on the actual blockchain.


What happens here on this is exchange is  I give a btc.  It is 1 transaction  my address to the address on the exchange.  That shows on the block chain.


On the exchange servers  that btc is chopped diced and converted  to other coins cash what ever  with next to zero   transactions on any blockchain of any coin.

this is how btc still works as a commodity  that is tradable.  If every transaction my 1 btc did was on a chain  it moves to slow to trade.


Anyone that says don't leave money on an exchange is correct if you simply want to convert the coin to another coin or to cash.

But if you have any desire to buy and sell and trade you must leave the coin in the hands of the exchange.

Frankly the owners of this company should be put to death by Chinese government since Hong Kong Belongs to China last that I heard and China still has the death

penalty.

I only say this because they are guilty of murdering crypto coins due to insanely stupid security. If people think the ETH fork into ETH/ETC was bad this is worse. Since killing off  a huge exchange makes the coins closer to worthless ness.   Without a safe way to trade and without a larger on blockchain transaction limit BTC is going to die.
This is where we are today.  Exchanges crash and burn time and time again.  Plus the blockchain transaction cap stays the same.

To those that say traders should not trade crypto coins  I will forgive you for lack of understanding  why the coins exist in the first place.
Hint  sitting in a few addresses doing nothing is not the  correct answer.

They were legally prohibited from using cold storage by the CTFC of US government. That's why they went to the next best thing BitGo. Which turns out to be a disaster for them.

Can we stop with these "don't keep your coin at exchange" talks? without exchange traders, there would be no liquidity in Bitcoin. There's no way for traders to not keep coin at exchanges.

There are ways to secure an exchange, with cold storage, and so far 0 cold storage has been hacked, so it works. Bitfinex didn't use cold storage, and got hacked, end of story. In the future, refuse exchanges that doesn't PROVE it has 95%+ customer funds in cold storage.

people who too lazy to move their funds to their own wallet should be considered as lazy ass

The only real successfull option would be running a decentrialized exchange.
I heard and see upcoming projects like these and hope they will be a big succes, so "hacks" will not happen anymore.

I never keep my coin on any exchange nor in my bitcoin address from last couple of months i have heard too many bad news about bitcoin so whenever i get payment i immediately cashout it to my local currency. I don't trust any exchange.

Sorry for your loss everyone.

It is not a hack obviously. I would like to speculate that this is an "inside job".The amount adds up to 60 mln dollars in bitcoin some they say. Do you think that with this amount of bitcoin in dollars in their pocket Bitfinex gives a damn about their users ? I really think no and everyone who had some coins in there should stop hoping and learn the lesson everybody is talking about to never keep your coins in exchanges or even on online wallets as they too can disappear one day.

...

Perhaps we will just have to get used to the occasional robbery of BTC from exchanges (etc.).  It looks like these thefts will not stop.

There is risk of theft of most assets, including gold.

Many of us can improve our security however: hide gold well and store BTC in hardware wallets.  Those are simple steps to better secure your holdings.

These exchanges are fucking things up for Bitcoin with this piss ass security breaches and hacks. I wonder how many of these hacks are genuine .... many of these looks like inside jobs or stupidity of

the people hosting these services. It blows my mind that a exchange with a daily 10k+ bitcoin volume, can be this unprofessional and prone to attacks. I would only start using these services, if we can

find a decentralized exchange that solve the fiat problem for the conversion.  ::) 

What is the point of having Bitcoin if you can't use it?
This is no different than any other transaction done with Bitcoin, you have to trust the receiving party to do there part. I don't care if you are purchasing product with bitcoin or using an exchange. Yes things can be hacked and precautions need to be taken. I don't get why most of the comments are about exchanges, are any other provider of services any different?
   This is the whole problem with transactions to known or unknown parties. They have the responsibility to handle things correctly. If you drop your car off for maintenance and it get stolen who's problem is it? It's not the shops right, you were stupid enough to take it to the shop. Any shop can get jacked/hacked.
   Is this really a valid argument about leaving your bitcoin on exchanges? You have to know who you are transacting with or take out insurance. As we all know things happen. Your cold storage can get destroyed, bitcoin gone.

Maybe waiting upwards of 100 confirmations on deposits and withdrawals similar to mining. Once the deposit hit required confirmations it could be traded freely on the exchange until withdrawn. It would definitely buy some time in the event of a hack.

I have the same feeling Bitcoin wont go anywhere if really safe decentralized exchanges can not be developed. This could bring a lot of liquidity to Bitcoin trading. Current situation with centralized exchanges is these can be hacked or inside job can siphon off all deposited Bitcoins, thats why its very risky to trade the Bitcoin at exchanges and this limits Bitcoin liquidity a lot.

The number of possible transactions must go up as well since Bitcoin is almost on allowed transaction limmits decided to be enought many years ago - but technology advances continuously and without more transactions possible Bitcoin cannot be used much more than today, so not dying but on the limit already without possibility to be much more popular option.

Probably not even Bitfinex does up to this point. Assuming that they were indeed hacked and the whole incident isn't a complete fabrication...

Given that BitGo (multisig system Bitfinex was using) claim that their system wasn't breached (https://twitter.com/BitGo/status/760624908334346240), it is likely that Bitfinex either lied about using multisig to protect customer funds or didn't implement the solution correctly.

As of cold storage, it's already been proven that Bitfinex outright lied about it:
Before the hack https://archive.is/miyPF
After the hack https://np.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4vtv1m/bitfinex_down_due_to_bitcoin_security_breach/d61pmuy

Well that sure is going to be tricky. As a service provider, you'd have to prove that the keys to the funds are not stored on any online system, however you can't prove that something is not happening.

Dang this sucks.

the main problem we will always keep funds in exchanges, that for we can made trade any time when we want to buy or sell bitcoin. so what we must learn cause if we always made a deposit/withdraw it's need a time to get a confirmation so you will lose a chance to make a profit. in fact this is a risk we must acceptance.

It's called 3rd party audit.

this is not entirely people's fault but the exchange is to blame as well, they should have taken more security measures to avoid such accidents imao.

 I'm new, and after reading your comments I see its not smart to hold coins on exchange site. I see many people talking about earning with trading, how to find good exchanger site?

 I read on internet news that bitfinex isn't licensed, how to know which exchangers are licensed? Are they better protected?

i can never undestand how these exchanges lose this many bitcoin all in one place. i mean 119000 bitcoin is not a small amount.
if they have lost thousands or even tens of thousand i could undestand it, but how can you keep 119000BTC=75,000,000$ in one place and not protect it with all your life.

unless of course this is all a show, and there was no hack. they simply moved the funds to their other pocket and said we were hacked haha.

Yeah I agree has to be an inside job, Finex took the money and ran , same thing Cyrpsty did.

Maybe they had a internal breach i.e a large amount of funds stolen and then they are poping this to cover thier tracks

The whole point of multisig is it takes multiple PKs to access the funds how could someone get access to both and then leach out 120k btc so fast ?

at the minimum there would be a limit of maybe 100 BTC per withdrawal come on guys.

Actually i have learned lesson before also to diversify my bitcoin storage so i haven't kept all in one exchanger or wallet and at the situation when bitfinex got hacked i haven't any bitcoin there so no any direct loss of bitcoin for me however with the price total value of my bitcoin got down.

Currently i have only 20% of my bitcoin in total in all exchangers.  8)

I keep hearing about decentralized exchanges, and I think that this term is just laughable.  How do you create a decentralized exchange that allows you to cash in and out USD?  How do I withdraw USD from a decentralized exchange to my bank?  Who is sending the wire exactly?

There is no decentralized way to handle USD.  It is that way by design.  If there was a way, then we wouldn't need Bitcoin in the first place.  

Yes I leant the lesson before Bitfinex get hacked , but sometimes you need to leave some money in exchanges , because some coins pump or dump suddenly , and the Bitcoin transaction needs short time to be completed , so you might lose some values in the meantime .

This is a pretty good statement. It is never smart to leave coins at any exchanges. At most, I keep my coins for only a day and that only happens if I forget to withdraw them. Even though I usually do trading, I do not really keep a big amount of coins in any exchangers.

People will never learn from exchanges going down due to hacks or insider jobs.

They are either too lazy to request a withdrawal to get their coins back, or they seriously believe leaving coins on an exchange is a good way to store coins. I don't know which of the two options is worse.

We are looking for secure places to store our fiat money, but when it comes to Bitcoin certain people are completely different. Weird.

Yes, it's happened far too many times now that we've to realize that keeping our funds in an exchange isn't a good idea. No matter what, once your trade is complete make sure that your funds are transferred to your personal offline wallet or cold storage. Never trust online exchanges with security.

How else are you going to exchange btc, if not on an exchange?

Not enjoying reading some posters criticising & blaming Bitfinex users for losing their coins. Bitfinex are the ones to blame here.

How are people supposed to sell coins if they don't, at some point, have their coins on an exchange.

It's a shitty thing to happen & unfortunately people have got burnt. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an inside job tbh.

That is only a proof if you trust the auditor. Granted, it's a step forward but still.

Muggings, armed robberies, phishing and even card cloning, go on all day every day in the 'normal' world, security only counts for as much effort you put into it.

It is prety dumb to hold your coins on an exchange after u exchanged the currency u wanted to swap.
They don't target the people that just deposited and then it went offline. They are the super unlucky ones.

Decentrialized exchange is the best option.

Sad, looks like cryptocurrency needs to stay out of exchanges until insured and well regulated. or take you chances and piece meal your exchange transactions in small enough pieces that one is willing to loose. This leaves margin trading not currently viable. Bitcoin has a ways to go until we have credible providers of service or providers that will insure bitcoin transactions from fraud like credit cards.

American exchanges (those with regulations) haven't been hacked.  Kraken and Coinbase don't get hacked because they are not run by silly little boys in countries with no rules.

http://blog.coinfloor.co.uk/

coinfloor do this every month. it's a tiny exchange compared to some others but news like this hopefully encourages people to take less chances, but I don't think it will.

what's really needed is a fully regulated and audited place with margin trading. margin is what keeps people coming back and using risky places.

Anyone got finexxed here?

I am pretty sure there are quite a few here that have had ties with this exchange.
Will they admit it? Probably not out of being too embarrassed to admit that they held any coins in an exchange once their trading session has ended.

I don't think he understands how orders work or how people can trade.
People don't always trade at the market price, and funds must be available for limit orders.

  yeah while I am out some coins  it is only about 15% of my total amount of coins.

Frankly  this looks to be an inside job  in my opinion.

If me a guy with 6 to 7 thousand  of usd in coins knows to have 6 wallets  that I control  and 4 or 5 hot wallets why don't they do the same.?

I didn't have any coins there, but blaming people who did is not just short sighted, it's also stupid and against your own interests.

If places like this didn't exist, BTC would have very little value, a currency that cant be traded is not a currency, or a store of value. Things like this are bad for BTC, and telling people not to have coins on exchanges is the same as saying the whole BTC ecosystem is not to be trusted.

Nope not here i didn't get Goxxed either thank god, most of my heavy losses were in mining scams though lol

of course only the exchange should be blamed, people didnt know that their funds will be just stolen, i hope all the money will be refunded to people as soon as possible

Thank God I was not using that site in trading. Yeah, they should return the funds of the people. The hacking of the site is not a valid reason for the people to loose their money without a refund. It is their responsibility to take care of those since traders pays fees to make their transactions safer. Yeah, Inside job may be one of the reason. I hope your funds will be returned guys. Good Luck :)

There comes a point where you're far too paranoid about everything being paid off by people, or there being deals behind closed doors. You have to be able to trust a third-party audit at some point, otherwise you might as well believe that everyone is covering up everything else up and nothing they tell you is true. While I do agree that not everything is what it seems and there isn't always enough evidence to be scared of everything.

I like how OP started "Once Again..." I don't believe that people learned their lesson, I see how bad things are repeating, not just with exchangers, with cloud mining services also. And when I open my Facebook I see like million new posts about new services and sites for doubling bitcoins.

I think people will never learn, and this is not case just with bitcoins. All this schemes existed before, and scammers did all this before with dollars, euros ..and other currencies. Now they are doing that with bitcoins, even easier for them, they don't see anyone faces, they hide easier.

And how are they planning to repay the people?
Taking a loan without a license, an illegal exchange!
How did people even trust this site? I have never heard of it until it went a massive topic about the hack.

Well, everybody had their decision. Bad luck if your fund was stolen, you may put your money/btc in some wallet and not too much in trading exchange. That hacker made the price of btc continues decline. :(

very good point. I said that since months ago. Bitfinex and most of other exchangers are ILLEGAL. They are not licensed, they are outlaw !

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1573336.msg15793815#msg15793815

it's so hard to accept that there are SO many brain washed persons who can use a such companies with LARGE amount(millions).  ??? ::)  
now, they are starting to complain...but they ignored all the warnings long time before this shit.

mark my words, BTC-e and Kraken are next. Both are unlicensed(uninsured). do you think people will avoid them? no. they will continue to use their service till the day(soon) their websites will announce "we are hacked" :)

The funny thing is that online exchanges always state that it is not an online wallet, but only a exchange to store a very low quantity of cash in there. And everyone should know, based on the Bitcoin exchange hacking history. Just to mention a recent one, Cryptsy.

I would never store a high quantity of Bitcoins online, not only because of hackers, but also because I won't be covered if that happens. If someone hacks my PayPal account, I can make a call to Paypal and recover the funds. With Bitcoin is a more secure way to buy/sell products, but also dangerous to protect on a hot-wallet.

I have quite a bit stored in my magnr savings wallet (It's supposed to be a cold wallet, so it should be relatively safe), is this a problem? How can I find out if they're licensed/insured?

Anyone know what percentage of the total bitcoins Bitfinex had were stolen? I know they stole 119,000 and this sounds like a HUGE amount to me...I'm guessing it may represent over 90% of all bitcoins Bitfinex had but maybe I'm wrong. Does any know the actual percentage?

i doubt that 90 per cent of the coins were stolen though i dont know the exact number, i hope tat you were wrong because if not then the users are screwed

aprox 1%

Bitfinex lost 120, 000 bitcoins. Even if it is only 1% of their net worth, they will feel the lose in profit - everybody involved will feel it.

Isn't coinbase insured, for a situation like this? If so I'd never use a exchange that isn't insured.

I agree that people should not make exchanges / trading platform as their personal wallet.  Lots of things like this happen.  We can't blame those who are trading or have  sell wall on the exchange. Sadly we cannot tell which exchange/trading platform will be next. 

No lesson learn from this for people will continue to use exchanges and store most if not all there coins in their exchange wallets. So this will happen again and again and again. That is the way human nature is. It is just a never ending cycle of insanity as this is what the definition of it is. Repeating the same mistake over and over again expecting a different result. :-\

yeah, the loss was pretty big unfortunately though i hope that people will get refunded  their bitcoins sooner or later, i hope that people learned the lesson

Agree with Lauda.  People haven't learned their lesson entirely, that's obvious, and it's going to take some time for crypto newbies to realize what's happened with these exchanges, and how they cannot be trusted.

As for me, I've definitely learned from all of this--Gox, then Cryptsy (which I used faithfully), and now bitfinex which I never used.  I use Circle and I never keep bitcoin in their wallet.  I trust their business but not enough to keep funds with them.  Always control your private keys.

No matter how people adjust, exchanges are the most convenience means of trading or converting their coins.  If you are selling  your coins, would you withdraw it the  moment you log out?  I bet no because  you'll be waiting for it to be converted or bought and before withdrawing them.

Kind of makes sense but why risk it is all I am asking.  ???

There has to be a better platform to do this on where not all your coins that you have invested are at stake if the system is comprised in anyway.

i'm not a big trader but that's exactly what I do every time I've obtained coins from an exchange. it's a few seconds extra and it's kind of the whole point of the exchange in the first place. they're not there to store anything.

I was actually gonna have a go with etc on bitfinex a couple of nights ago but never got around to it. a bullet was dodged. you dodge the same bullet every time you instantly remove your coins from wherever you got them from.

I don't think so because i never finding an exchange is enclose the insured in their service for their users. i don't know how the exchange site will making assurance for their member because it's like impossible to do that caused by the users is not putting a real personal information.

Which excanges are we talking about? All of them or selective ones?
For exapmle, I've had several bitcoin in coinbase for a while now and haven't yet lost anything from it (though feel I may eventually).
It's more unsafe to withdrawfunds though isn't it? As sites like coinbase are insured by ones like electrum ony need a person to guess the random phrase and then they're in your account.

Some exchanges recovered after a hack. Bitfinex was the top no 1 Bitcoin exchange. Someone must be interested in giving them a hand.

The problem is the trust in terms of safety. It is sure that they can recover from that loss we all know, but will they again have a decent support from the bitcoin community? I doubt about it.

It's not like it was a hated exchange like MtGox. People didn't have time to start hating it yet for slaw withdrawals and a bunch of shenanigans. It was way more trust than MtGox had.

It's not bad to put some in your money in exchanges just want to earn some profit .just dont put all your money in any exchanges that's the lesson we learn from what happened in bitfinex but still Ill do put some of my money even iknow exchanger also have a risk.

It's a bad idea to hold more than you'd willing to lose without hurting much.

you have to take positions sometimes so you have to put some of your money / bitcoin on exchanges and leave it there in form of an open order otherwise you can't trade at all.

I think the 1% figure corresponds to 1% of total bitcoins in circulation--not 1% of Bitfinex's holdings.

My point is that multi-sig is probably a good thing. But user should  keep at least one  key for himself revealing it only during exchange deal. So trading order execution remain on users side. And the lesson I personally try to learn: you can't do successful trading in your spare time. It takes all the attention, you have to do researches and dig deeper.  :) And never  put all your eggs in one basket.  

Still no decent updates, although we do know from the last one they do indeed plan to relaunch.  I hope this happens very soon and we move on and learn from this somehow.  I guess keeping coins on exchanges will be at an all time low.

This thread should be bump-ed every 5 minutes and it may still not be enough.

According to the recent new the latest hacking incident on Bitfinex has played a very crucial part on the price deflation of bitcoin. Hope that the issue may be solved and some measure be taken so that this incident will no longer happen and also bitcoins value will not go down anymore. This is a lesson learned that even a site with high security protocol for bitcoins are also a prey for hackers.

if you do not get hacked, i think its better to withdraw your btc into another wallet, just in case. and maybe you can think that this is the time to leave bitfinex and go find another market exchanger. no one wants to get hacked, its been sadly, because i have experience too even if its just in small amount.

Should we expect them to refund all the users after this message  ?

https://i.imgur.com/wgkcYPc.png

I have never used exchange site to store any big amount of bitcoin.
And few months ago I stopped using blockchain.info too and changed to desktop wallet.
And I have always kept most of my bitcoins in paper wallet.

trader always save more money in the exchanger, including me, because it's very important.
but after some problems about hackers, maybe I would reduce funds for trading.

Yeah those Cloud mining schemes are notorious to run off with your coins. That's for certain!:-[

The Cloud mining schemes do not have to run off with your money. You will not ROI as designed by sites.

I dont really get that paper wallet thing. When you acquire it how can I use it? What if our country doesnt accept that kind of thing. Then it will be just a paper with bitcoin in it?

Paper wallet is nothing more than a piece of paper containing the private key to a certain wallet address. This is basically the ultimate form of offline storage when it comes to Bitcoin. You can create a paper wallet here : bitaddress.org that you can print out.

But after this cases maybe the traders will get more knowledge about they must moving their amount after they using for trading on that site, maybe it's will eat more amount for fees but it's better than saving on the exchange site.

When I was still new with bitcoin, I didn't really care much about security. After a while doing lots of reading and research, I realized that I had to start using different wallets and not be so confident with my local exchange. Since then, I would only place a small amount in my exchange to pay for small stuff like bills and load credits.

Of course, keeping the coins at the exchanges is a very risky thing.
But a trader has to have the ability to react fast on the market. Especially here with crypto coins.
If he gets his deposits after half an hour or even later, the chance of trading successfully is often gone.
It's kind of a dilemma I think.

You can't keep telling people to not store BTC in exchanges. If you are a trader you NEED BTC disposable in the exchange to act fast, otherwise how are you supposed to trade?

We need decentralized exchanges so the guy running the exchange doesn't own all the BTC from everyone. Bitsquare type of exchange is not a solution, that is a marketplace and not an exchange.

It seems the exchange will reopen but customers stand to lose some of their BTC.

Is it really worth the risk to profit to trade on an exchange that may steal your cryptocurrency?
Most of us can keep our cryptocurrency safe and an exchange with Bitgo cannot?
Surprise, Surprise more people lost cryptocurrency with provider fraud.
So yea, keep your cryptocurrency on an exchange.
Help clean up cryptocurrency, please do not feed the fraudsters.

It would be better for Bitfinex to perish in flames and pay off every user who lost BTC because of their incompetency.
Than reopen and continue their pitiful service with reputation tarnished like that is risky. Would people actually gonna return and use their services?

But again, I guess it is still better than Mt. Gox style bankruptcy...

even if bitfinex returns as a "better" exchange, people will do everything to avoid it. no one serious will keep using an exchange runned by incompetent rookies. traders will move to bitstamp or kraken.

the real issues with BitGo and BitFinex is that they lied about the security they have in place but in the end nothing was secured.

for some buiness cases you must have a large amount of money sitting on an exchanger, e.g. for margin lending if you want to earn significant interests.

so please if you don't understand the business step back and shut up.

Sadly I don't think this is the case. People are too addicted to margin trading and liquidity. Greed rules all even when it's interspersed with being raped as well. I hope they dwindle to nothing but I'm not holding my breath.

I quite agree with your words. Even when bitfinex threw rate at 100 percent, the Kraken is only 0.28 percent. It is possible to draw conclusions.

Shapeshift was hacked as well and based on what we were told it was an inside job. Nothing is 100% secure. Shapeshift covered for the loss in full themselves while Bitfinex seems unable to do so.

because 120k bitcoins is too much and a explanation of how a theft on a 2-of-3 multisig can happen is outstanding.

i am not a trader and yet i do not trade my coins in any exchange but sometimes i trafer some coins in them just for educational purpose i just try to learn trading myself but after seing theis inncident traders will take much precautions.and by the way its there wapsite which i think first got hacked after that their wallet

What news have you heard of them opening their doors for trading?
It is business as usual so soon? That is hard to believe because their exchange rate from all trackers are showing not trading and 0 of the bitcoin price. So I highly doubt they are back to business so close from the hack happened. No business can recover and have everything under control that fast unless it was in fact a planned attack and an inside job as many here have speculated that happened.

thats true, a lot of people are making money out of trading so it would be dumb to just move your money in and out of the website though thats just my opinion

What's wrong with margin trading and liquidity ? You can't buy your everyday groceries with bitcoins,can you ?I don't think its the result of greed as you put it.Even if it is,a website's architecture should be strong enough to resist such attacks since people's are putting their damn savings in there.It's fault on their site,I don't think you should even open that website ever again.

Earn on bitcoin mining is one thing, trade has the ability to really have. Without the skills I would not have dared.

you have a valid point there. greed makes even the most experienced traders do things they will later regret. such an exchange should be punished and left instead of given a second chance. not everyone thinks like this unfortunately.

http://blog.bitfinex.com/uncategorized/update/

well first of all it doesnt require too much skills to be honest, besides that in my opinion traders will still do the same as they do margin trading usually

Thats really bad to hear so much popular exchanges can be hacked and users lossing their bitcoins from such a trusted exchange.First we hear about Mtgox and now bitfines.Ya a good lesson learnt that never hold our coins on any exchnge no matter how much trustable it can be.

I don't understand, what is a "better BitFraudFinex"?
A BitFraudFinex that doesn't steal as often or as much, or one that defrauds more?
A BitFraudFinex that says they have insurance? BitGo
A BitFraudFinex that says they have multisig accounts?
A BitFraudFinex that says they have third party regulation?
A BitFraudFinex that has plausible excuses when they steal cryptocurrency?
A BitFraudFinex that looks trustworthy again?
A BitFraudFinex that people actually go to jail for fraud?
A BitFraudFinex that people know is a fraud scheme?
What would make BitFraudFinex better?

Sorry for my ignorance but I am confused and would like to understand what a better BitFraudFinex is.

Perhaps another question should be raised:

Why weren't there any alarm bells ringing or some fail-safes in place or at least some kind of auditing, when an amount like 120k BTC's were slushed out?

Though there are no details (yet) on the how and the why, but c'mon, when amounts like that are being transferred outside of an exchange... Pfff... Any reputable company should have a system in place that alerts it's employees and/or kicks in on suspicious actions/transactions, especially after lessons learned from the past. For that, the OP is definitely right: Haven't people still learned their lesson, likewise the same applies for exchangers  ::)

I have learned a bigger lesson, that I will not keep my bitcoin in any exchange, I were having a good amount in my exchange and I often think that I will transfer them to my wallet but because of lack of time it remained there for months, but now I am transferring them to wallet.

Another update from Bitfinex , guys :


https://i.imgur.com/XjozZQN.png

Wow... they are now socializing losses to all asset holders. This is not a smart move for Bitfinex. Previously, all bitcoin wallets were segregated, so it was clear whose assets were stolen. Under bailment theory, that means Bitfinex must return assets to their rightful owners and consider assets lost as lost.

US law does not see this socialized loss scenario as valid. It's not like liquidation in bankruptcy, because this does not contemplate ranking of creditors. I smell litigation ensuing.

Thats a good news for those who trading in bitfinex they dont need to be worry because they are giving back and credited after calculate all loses..
I hope they will success to secured their website..

It's not good news. Everyone is taking a significant haircut on their funds. They are suggesting the offering of a security asset (which they are not authorized to do). And socializing losses this way is illegal for US customers. US customers (and others, but I only know US law) are considered bailors, and Bitfinex is now converting their bailments and paying out other customers with the proceeds. They have no right to do that, and they are about to enter a legal shitstorm as a result.

Every crypto that held an ICO should have been a shitstorm if that were the case. It hasn't really happened until now. Regulators have their hands full with other stuff.

Their all retarded, sorry to say. Those idiots who kept their BTC on exchanges kinda deserve to have their coins stolen.

ICOs are generally run by fly-by-night unknowns. Not the case with Bitfinex, which has been established for years now as the highest volume USD exchange. There is no comparing this to shitcoin ICOs.

Also, ICOs tend to have a more distributed creditor base (many people buying small amounts). Bitfinex has some major, major whales, and it only takes one or two of them to make a major legal headache for Bitfinex.

Very different situation.

They have run the perfect scam. First they take 60M from some people with a massive inside job theft, then they take another 60M from everybody with another theft, but this time, people are actually saying thank you.

To be fair, there was only one theft. The 36% haircut is accounting for that one theft. We just hadn't gotten any clarity on how customers would be affected yet.

I'm still unsure whether this was an inside job. It certainly could be, but that wouldn't necessarily mean all of Bitfinex is involved at all. Just one or two employees (or possibly BitGo employees).

Isn't Ethereum established enough?

The ICO was big enough that if it went down as a complete scam, then there may have been some interested parties and courts going after the Ethereum Foundation. But since they paid out the ICO and the market price never went below it, who the hell is gonna complain? Financially, everyone made money.

Not all ICOs play out like that.

I think no one learned the lesson yet. They are waiting to get back 64% of all of their funds in order to keep trading in the immediate future. Even if bitfinex goes down for good all the people who used to keep their coins in an exchange will continue to do so as soon as a new exchange will pop up. Trading is a lot like gambling if it becomes addicted you are done.

I like to think that long term traders understand the risk/reward of keeping money on exchanges -- just like they understand the risk/reward of any given trade. I will be hurt pretty badly by this Bitfinex theft, and I'm sort of pissed off that they are socializing losses, as I was not holding any BTC at the time. Nevertheless, I have made many times more (and removed to my bank or cold storage BTC) than what was in my account balance over the years of trading there. So I know I did the right thing by trading there. I spread my risk around several exchanges and I will continue trading with adequate risk management.

I am so interested, how much money was stolen, i am don't like when something like this happening but i am sympathize to people who lost their money.

How the heck is that good news? One person steals from another, and all the rest are dragged in that burden? What kind of crazy business is that??? BitShit is the one who is responsible for somewhere down the path regarding security, and it is BitShit that owns the stolen BTC's to the ones stolen from, not to the ones that had nothing to do with it!



And regarding those IBX's:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/84/de/44/84de44a6fc019e43b11d65fab621d644.jpg

Seems ridiculous to me. I'm very grateful I have never used them.

When Cryptsy came with the news they were hacked I decided to withdraw all mine funds on other exchanges. Since that I never hold any amount bigger then BTC0.01. Don't want to be a victim again in another scenario were a exchange collapse. But some people are hard learning and always get tricked in new hack or scam situations.

Bitfinex has stolen the funds. There was not any hack. Bitfinex earned 23 MIL USD from this shit. Yes, they made 23 MIL USD overnight. :)

Yes, their clients are happy that they get less 36%.

 How stupid can you be to accept that?  Yes, withdrawn your funds and sue the Bitfinex shit owners ! make complaints.
Get your money back from these morons. They always did a lot of scams with their platform; from price manipulation till...so called account hacks. make a search and you find a lot if interesting things about Bitfinex.

where are their office? where is their fucking financial license(it's coming with funds insurance) which is mandatory for their business? they have none !  how idiot can you be to accept their terms and to continue to use their services?

is this a 100% retard generation?

Your profits from trading must be in the millions… ah you don't trade I hear?, then why keep <0.01? Why not 0.00000000?

why did they deserve that? maybe most of the people are traders whose job is to trade bitcoins so they cannot just move their money out of it every day

I think the solution could be to have all incoming and outgoing transfers require 200 confirmations. That would give everyone time to stop the hack, once unusual activity is detected.

True, socialized loss for customers is never good. In the end the company gets the profits but their customers shoulder the losses? These guys should be sued.

BitFinex should shoulder the losses, along with its investors. It's their business, not ours.

That's probably not an option. The loss was just too big.

I really dont get people that are using some strange sites to hold bitcoin, i mean bitfinex wasn't bad but i know some friends,
which were holding their bitcoins in there for about 2-3 months. So it is much safier to transfer them on some wallet, than holding them in ??exchange

There is this rule that you can't withdraw more than your account balance and still they took 120k btc so what makes you think this rule would stop hackers?
So this would only make it uncomfortable for normal users.

Exchanges will keep getting hacked because there is nothing fully secure in in the internet so unless they decide to use Cold storage .. we will keep seeing this kind of news in the upcoming years and It won't be beautiful at all.

A Poloniex hack would be a very ugly event. People are incentivized to keep their coins there and I know many do.

Yeah. learned the lesson, But I think we should have to trust on bitstamp, I hope it will not destroy our hard earned money, it will give us guarantee for the security of pour money. as it is now a licensed exchange.

So, I wonder if Bitfinex would give the stolen coins back to their users? This would be the right thing to do. Is this actualy realistic to expect?

If bitfinex did not shoulder the loses and we accepted it then after that every exchange will scam us by announcing a hack and after that they will cut off our bitcoins and they will run away with our hard earned bitcoins, bitfinex should have to fulfill the loses and the government should have to fine them, so that they care for the next time.

The guys running the exchange make a mess that costs people a lot money, and they pass the damage bill to its traders by cutting all balances with just over 36%. That's just nasty.

Getting 64% back and some bond is way better than losing everything.

Another update about the current situation [I don't see website online , not even in read-only mode ]

https://i.imgur.com/OQAU3Oi.png

It might look and sound like a good sign for giving back the 64% of the account balance, better than nothing right? But that is if they really are attacked by a hacker.

I was thinking if this kind of exchange site also sign up for any insurance like real life banks, when something bad happens to the Bank depositor is insured up to a certain amount of money, so that means if the maximum insured amount is 10 BTC even if your account have 50 BTC insurance can only pay you the maximum of 10 BTC.

Exactly that! It's not sure if it was a real hacker stealing their coins, or the people behind the exchange doing it themselves.

If the exchange owners have done it, then it means they robbed their traders and simply make all people beside themselves pay for it.

Either way, people must leave that exchange and immediately remove all their coins and fiat.

Yes, it will be good for to trap the hackers before they use the stolen bitcoins, but the better solution is that the dev much have to start a system of dispute , just like the dispute system in paypal and payza, with that we will be able to recover out stolen money by winning the dispute.

I think it will be an inconvenience for the users of bitcoin, as with that it will require much bigger time to transact our money to any other address of someone, and for purchase we will have to wait much longer.

I'm talking only deposits and withdrawals. Trading would be normal. I'd personally wait for a high confirmations number over being hacked. It definitely would give people time to react before the btc just vanished.

It is not the fault of the users that bitfinex hacked, so the users do not have to accept the lose but it is the fault of bitfinex that they have much weaker security, people had trust on them so they have to care for their users otherwise everyone will leave this exchange and it will die.

To be honest, I don't think this is how Bitfinex would have handled this at all if it were intended as an exit scam. I think -- based purely on the actions of Bitfinex owners -- that they are desperately trying to hold onto their baby, and that this was completely unforeseen. That's not to say it wasn't an inside job by one or two people, but I don't think this was an all-out scam. If it were, they would have simply gone dark. Instead, many large traders have reported being on calls with Giancarlo, etc. and they've actually brought the site back up and made several UX adjustments. That's not really indicative of an exit scam.

Anyway, I think people are just hoping to get some funds off now...doesn't mean they can't sue later.

I don't think so, maybe you're wrong about that. you can try to send your amount to any address but after you sending your amount and not getting a confirmed maybe your amount is already disappearing and stay in the half of the road. and waiting for the confirmation and finishing into receiver address but the transaction system like an escrow.

It's not the first exchange that is getting hacked and we have learned this lesson many times but the traders do not have any other way to trade outside exchanges so they may put all their money on exchange because when trading with a huge amount the risk is high but also the profit can be higher.

you probably did learn the lesson but other people didn't , otherwise how would you explain that 70m $ (or something) got hacked from "USER FUNDS" which means.... yep they didn't learn anything.

As can be traded on the stock exchange and it does not keep money there?
This is not just an exchange - this is trade. Many put the long order in anticipation of the desired prices.
Security solutions -  licensing and insurance exchanges or fully decentralized exchange.

_{(Sorry for my bad english)}

it's not bitfinex fault if someone lose bitcoin because of bitfinex got hacked last week it always depends on you if you are going to pull out your bitcoins where you can withdraw it or you want to stay your coin there but if they going to relaunch they're are going down because of investors or for those who using the website they will not going to trust again

making withdrawal every daily target reached is quite helping rather than go sleeping while money still being kept in an exchanger
sometimes people just lazy and (super) stingy to pay few fees which is i guess not more than 5$,but still the risk of keeping money on exchanger can't be avoided for those traders

you're believing that the bitfinex's security is user's responsibilty or being sarcastic?
i guess users there is enough by paying fees and get what they should deserve (security and safety)

So, I've never actually been to the Bitfinex web site (or used it)
I found another pool STILL has links to them on their web site, so I clicked and had a look.

Wow are they delusional still saying this on the web site:
https://www.bitfinex.com/security_policy

a lot of "bla bla" without any cover, these are their texts.  :) 

same as their TOS . a lot of non senses, copy+paste from others

It is Bitfinex's responsibility to keep your funds safe. The hack is Bitfinex fault they did not keep the keys properly.

i learnt that i should never trust any exchanges and not keep my money theres

Security is their priority ? any Security expert should know that almost everything online is hackable. The fact that they didn't use Cold storage to store most of the funds means that they don't really give a damn.

It looks like they will release a new coin to compensate users.

i think trading should occur in the form of a forum, via the client(bitcoin core) itself, so no more exchange and directly with bitcoin, without third party software

it's stupid that a decentralized thing like bitcoin, still rotate around centralized things....

Perhaps you're right, that will only be to give priority to the exchanges, which do not mess your reputation.

Then have bitfinex put a 48 hour hold before processing any incoming or outgoing transaction.

That was certainly quite weird. Their wallet system was a hot mess.

Here is another update about them (their servers/website are still down though ) :

https://i.imgur.com/RA3ZYBZ.png

May be down for you but yesterday there was trading from 16:00 UTC.

Since the hack, I was never able to visit their website personally but this sound pretty dumb If you ask me. I mean they should work on a final issue instead of bringing the website UP and taking it down each time.

The https://www.bitfinex.com/ is quite slow at the moment. Maybe it is under some kind of attack now.

Just want to ask anyone who traded there - have they given back your coins after this mega-upgrade or just enabled new deposits?

the website doesn't seem to be working so I assume they didn't do anything yet otherwise people would've reported it already. ( check https://bitfinex.statuspage.io/ from time to time If you want some updates https://bitfinex.statuspage.io/ )

So I guess that Bitfinex themselves is actually all a scam, since th web site (still) says this:
i.e. both BitGo and Bitfinex had to BOTH be compromised according to their (current) web site.

If that above quote is false, then it's still a scam them making that statement.

That's an interesting point. Think it's an inside job just like the Shapeshift hack?

Learned it years ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179135.msg9122178#msg9122178

What happened with shapeshift, i dont know nothing related to those, did they got hacked as well? This is really insane i thinked they had reopen already with the all users loosing 35% their funds to balance the lost the hacked took.

withdrawing is working fine . I tested it yesterday and It is completed within 30 minutes after I confirmed the request.
but there is still a loss which is 36% of the old funds :(

You are using the website without issues ? how come I'm unable to connect to the website (not the account , but the website isn't even working)

The website did not work yesterday. But it is working now. I heard many people are withdrawing from the exchange.

more than 65% from their clients already withdrew their funds from Bitfinex. Bitfinex platform will become a ghost shortly.

I'm testing each day and the website is still not working for me , anyone is having the same issue ? I'm having the default error message from Chrome when a website is down.

It was never down for me. Ok, they halted the service, but I received their page saying so. The day that trading was reenabled there were some outages but I got a bitfinex page saying so, "Please try again later". Never down. Now margin trading is back and I have my short again.

If they are going up and down maybe they are still having some technical issues.
Was there ever any information as to how they were breached? Was it some sort of vulnerability in their website?  

I don't know much about how exchanges work, but I presume there is a php backend for the site that connects to a database like SQL so you have a lot of security work to do to secure all that infrastructure.

I'm trying since yesterday like each 15mn all the day but the shit is just not working , the weird thing is that It's showing everything correctly on their page on statuspage.io : https://bitfinex.statuspage.io/  , I tried to reboot my modem (I thought they blocked my IP for one reason or another) , my IP changed but I still can't access the website so I just don't understand.

of course, it is :)

i doubt that they will ever give the money back to the people that lost it, though i hope that in the future it is not going to happen again

Better to dont deposit again in that site because they are already experience of hack so its not safe to invest there again..
I think its time to go in other exchange site instead

you better say it is the time to stop trusting any exchange site and stop storing funds in them because every thing online is possibly can be hacked or scamed

As we can see for what happened in bitfinex it is a really big mistake to invest in to that exchange. They hype the community to invest more to their site company but the opposite is there's a big problem problem already. The issue that being exposed is they've been hacked for me but I think they're not, from the very start it's their planned it  to deceived the community.

Yes your right, every thing online can be hacked or scam, and it cannot be stop actually. I think the way to avoid that is if ever we invest in any exchange once we do trade and sell our coins and being sold if you/we think the amount is big withdraw it at once and leave a small amount of balance to make it grow again through trading.

I don't think anyone learned the lesson, especially since Bitfinex responded very swiftly with a quick refund to all of its members.

But I agree with you. It is a good habit to withdraw funds from exchanges, especially if you are using an illegal fund. I use Yobit.net and haven't had any problems yet, but since the Bitfinex incident, I have withdrawn most of my funds.

 :)

A quick refund of 64% of users' funds. Not what I think of as a "refund."

Given that BTC-E has now outperformed Bitfinex's volume for 3 days in a row, I'd say that there has been a massive exodus from Bitfinex. 60% of coins held by Bitfinex have now been withdrawn from the exchange. It's a ghost town.

And damn right. You'd be crazy to keep funds on that criminal exchange.

 I never seen this till now , I'm not sure If this existed before or after the hack but .. How ironic is this    ::)

https://i.imgur.com/sTNrIbH.png

So secure that two weeks later, they don't even know how they got hacked! But who cares? Reopen anyway! :D

I bet everyone is racing to send their funds to these guys. Bad enough to reduce their entire bitcoin holdings to a hot wallet (hot key + remote API key) -- worse yet to reopen the site for deposits when they can't even ascertain the attack vector.

does people really deposit there anymore?
you have to be so ignorant of the facts to deposit on bitfinex now that they have been hacked and it was proven that they are incapable of security.

after they reopening their site I wonder why so many people still doing trading there instead of getting outta there and move to another better exchanger,even after their balance getting cut off about 36%?,it's only me or this world just turning into a silly world? they're probably enabling the deposit to replace the lose fund ?

yeah, it is just their words, from now on i will never trust them because they are just liars that dont do what they should

sure..there is no need keeping money for so long on exchanger sites, cause it risky they can be break to into it..and the reason you got this in an exchanger sites, for use...so early usage of it will be save and not a loss...

Well i just have small ammount invested into some exchanges, but after those hack im scary to let my coins at exchanges as online wallets, soo its a shock to wake up and be loosing part of your capital to anyone. The thing is the people who trade need and must trust the exchange, soo the risk as the potencial earnings are together.

the traders will never learn their lesson no matter what, they will still keep on trading it and most probably they will keep on losing it too in the future if such stuff happens again

Here's the thing: if you are a losing trader, then damn right -- get your money off exchanges because that is simply another risk to your money. However, good traders know how to manage risk. They know how to mitigate exchange risk with leverage, and they also factor exchange risk into their risk management plan.

If you have removed more profit from your account than your balance is worth, then you are absolutely right to continue trading.

I imagine some people will still use this site for keeping some bitcoins even after too it got hacked. I’m also sure there are many people that did learn their lesson and are looking for better alternatives to store their bitcoin. You live, you learn till end of life.

But traders may be more careful with exchanges now, you know mtgox's bankrupt lesson was enough, but it seems there are many do not learn from mtgox, RIP bitfinex for 120k btc hack.

People aren't trading their anymore , instead, they switched to Poloniex. If you check https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/bitfinex/ you will see the low  trading volume in the Last 24 hours (~5 million dollar) while It was ~50 million dollar before the hack.
So It's pretty safe to say that people learned the lesson , finally. Switching to Poloniex means more security as they keep most of their funds in cold storage.

They didn't learn their lesson after the first BTC exchange was hacked.
They didn't learn their lesson after the second BTC exchange was hacked.
They didn't learn their lesson after the third BTC exchange was hacked.
They didn't learn their lesson after the fourth BTC exchange was hacked.
They didn't learn their lesson after the fifth BTC exchange was hacked.
They didn't learn their lesson after the sixth BTC exchange was hacked.
...
[whatever the number is now]

They'll NEVER learn.

Everytime an exchange is hacked people will lose money and no matter how many of them lose something you will hear them. A website could take bets about the next hacked exchange  ;D

What lesson you want to teach everyone , even their are users who had only altcoins, but even then it got hacked then who is the responsible. I had only my mined altcoins in that account and never use to keep bitcoins , even then i am in loss because the altcoin value is high, now if i dont keep altcoins in the exchange then how can i trade. So in some point it is usefull to tell everyone not to keep all coin in one exchange. my badluck is as soon as i transferred my altcoin and at point i was to sell the altcoin the exchange got hacked

Soon or later btc will reach 800 dolar value, it is just a matter of time. Btc investment is a long term investment type so you must wait until reach your goal and dont be sorry for hacking, stealing etc.

you are right, people will still hold their money on the exchanges and we cannot do anything about it to be honest, i think traders will still trade

Sadly that's true for now, but I'm sure that in the future someone will find a way to prevent hacking or at least to prevent losing big amounts of money in case of hacking. For the time being we shouldn't keep significant funds on any site.

They should use cold storage for 100% safe, but they were silly to trust 3-multisig wallet, they trust 3rd party, that's not the correct way to store bitcoin.

Yes you have a good point, we should also include to not store bitcoins in one site. The best way is to store your bitcoins in multiple wallets in different sites and in multiple cold storage.  The hacking in bitfinex was really a big lesson to all bitcoin users. That is why I don't save big amount of bitcoins in bitcoin wallet. I would rather sell them for cash and deposit it in banks. Then later  if I need bitCoin I just buy the necessary amount of bitcoin.

Good brainstorming in this thread, don't put all eggs in one basket, put them in multiple baskets(sites, or online wallets). It will reduce the risk of hacking.

Bitfinex has reimbursed its first wave of customers . At least they are giving some of the funds back , that's something we couldn't say about other exchange that got hacked , see more info about it on Coindesk : http://www.coindesk.com/bitfinex-reimburses-first-bitcoin-exchange-hack-victims/

Since bitflixnet got hacked and lost 120 btc (around 70million USd) and everyone had lost their savings too, the result price of bitcoin fall down about $200 and today it recover to $600 again, is it related to this reimbursed even a little bit? At least giving back fund to customer that what everyone waiting for,  they who get lost of it waiting full recovery payment.

Looks like the hacked has dumped all the coins on the last weeks since the attack, because market is reacting and waking once again, i keep trust poloniex and 80% my funds are there, we need to trust into something otherwise panic will happen at same time and those would be insane.

yeah, i trust only offline wallets that dont get internet on them, then it is actually really impossible to hack it and it is way safer

I'm not sure how giving funds back to users could increase the price exactly , since lost funds should give the price a boost as there will be less available supply while bringing BTC to circulation to more people will cause to having more supply and decrease price

People never learn, you said "I assume not otherwise you wouldn't keep your funds in an exchange (I'm not speaking with those who kept their bitcoin for short period of time , those accidents happens but I'm mostly speaking for those who had their bitcoins laying there for weeks/months)".

Do you remember the mt.gox case? I know some people lost few hundreds/thousands bitcoin on gox and they have also lost few hundreds of bitcoins on bitfinex. 
This is why I said people never learn:).