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Title: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: deisik on August 04, 2016, 08:11:22 AM For more than a year I've been proposing to extend Bitcoin technology to include what is called a decentralized distributed exchange. During this year two major Bitcoin exchanges got hacked, namely, Cryptsy and Bitfinex (probably more). I don't know how much money people lost at Cryptsy, but is 65 million dollars not enough to finally come up with a solution that would exclude this single point of failure from the equation altogether? I could potentially delve into Bitcoin and come up with something like that myself, but I'm not sure that Bitcoin won't die (or get abandoned, if you please) in a few years, so the acquired knowledge would be mostly useless...
Do Bitcoin developers actually think along the same lines as myself? Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: expert4knowledge on August 04, 2016, 01:15:11 PM For more than a year I've been proposing to extend Bitcoin technology to include what is called a decentralized distributed exchange. During this year two major Bitcoin exchanges got hacked, namely, Cryptsy and Bitfinex (probably more). I don't know how much money people lost at Cryptsy, but is 65 million dollars not enough to finally come up with a solution that would exclude this single point of failure from the equation altogether? I could potentially delve into Bitcoin and come up with something like that myself, but I'm not sure that Bitcoin won't die (or get abandoned, if you please) in a few years, so the acquired knowledge would be mostly useless... First of all I am do not agree with you that bitcoin will die in few year, however I think there are some problems of hacking cannot be preveneted easily, specially because of nature of bitcoin they cannot be preveneted and also legal problems related to exchanges and their activities which ties to concept of unkwon ownership of bitcoin. I searched and found this link here:Do Bitcoin developers actually think along the same lines as myself? http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/21513/how-would-a-decentralised-exchange-work Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: Taki on August 04, 2016, 01:43:09 PM Bit fines hacking wasn't the biggest in bitcoin history. I guess now after that bitcoin may seem risky for investors or those people who only start to open Bitcoin to themselves, newbies. But the problem is not in bitcoin, the problem is how to protect it from steal. Bitfinex's case sowed to everyone that it is dangerous to hold savings online. I plan to cash out my saving after bitcoin rise back to 700$.
Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: Pab on August 04, 2016, 01:52:16 PM Cryptsy was not hacked it was scam,bter was hacked but thay didnt keep btc in cold wallets,Bitfinex ,does all that 65 mln was in btc,hom much in btc stolen,i cant imagine thay not keep btc in cold wallets
Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: deisik on August 04, 2016, 01:53:17 PM For more than a year I've been proposing to extend Bitcoin technology to include what is called a decentralized distributed exchange. During this year two major Bitcoin exchanges got hacked, namely, Cryptsy and Bitfinex (probably more). I don't know how much money people lost at Cryptsy, but is 65 million dollars not enough to finally come up with a solution that would exclude this single point of failure from the equation altogether? I could potentially delve into Bitcoin and come up with something like that myself, but I'm not sure that Bitcoin won't die (or get abandoned, if you please) in a few years, so the acquired knowledge would be mostly useless... First of all I am do not agree with you that bitcoin will die in few year, however I think there are some problems of hacking cannot be preveneted easily, specially because of nature of bitcoin they cannot be preveneted and also legal problems related to exchanges and their activities which ties to concept of unkwon ownership of bitcoin. I searched and found this link here:Do Bitcoin developers actually think along the same lines as myself? http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/21513/how-would-a-decentralised-exchange-work In fact, I didn't say that Bitcoin would die in a few years. My point is that I don't find it worthy of time and effort to get into the gory details of Bitcoin technology up to a point where I could fluently contribute (or just contribute, lol) changes to the protocol myself. Apart from developing a few trading bots for cryptocurrency exchanges (which I'm already done with for obvious reasons), I didn't get involved in this field of software development. So I'm concerned if Bitcoin core developers don't feel pretty much the same... That is, don't feel particularly interested in further development and expansion of Bitcoin technology Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: valta4065 on August 04, 2016, 01:54:38 PM I don't understand what you propose.
What would be the point of a decentralised exchange? Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: deisik on August 04, 2016, 02:01:05 PM Cryptsy was not hacked it was scam,bter was hacked but thay didnt keep btc in cold wallets,Bitfinex ,does all that 65 mln was in btc,hom much in btc stolen,i cant imagine thay not keep btc in cold wallets For end users, the result is virtually the same, and it would and could have been prevented if Bitcoin development didn't freeze at fixing minor issues. After the Mt.Gox fiasco the outlook was pretty clear that it wouldn't be the last exchange to fail... Though I agree that the Cryptsy incident was rather a scam (they evidently deny this) Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: deisik on August 04, 2016, 02:11:50 PM I don't understand what you propose. What would be the point of a decentralised exchange? A decentralized distributed exchange would make such exchanges as Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, et al. unnecessary and obsolete, thereby totally eliminating the very possibility of a scam or a hack that happen now and then, again and again Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: valta4065 on August 04, 2016, 02:16:05 PM I don't understand what you propose. What would be the point of a decentralised exchange? A decentralized distributed exchange would make such exchanges as Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, et al., unnecessary and obsolete, thereby totally eliminating the very possibility of a scam or a hack that happen now and then, and then again Well... maybe... Just how can you create such a thing? Exchanging btc in decentralized way is easy, but buying and selling btc in decentralized way? I don't understand I'm afraid ^^' Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: deisik on August 04, 2016, 02:22:04 PM I don't understand what you propose. What would be the point of a decentralised exchange? A decentralized distributed exchange would make such exchanges as Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, et al., unnecessary and obsolete, thereby totally eliminating the very possibility of a scam or a hack that happen now and then, and then again Well... maybe... Just how can you create such a thing? Exchanging btc in decentralized way is easy, but buying and selling btc in decentralized way? I don't understand I'm afraid ^^' I understand your misunderstanding since this question had also perplexed me a lot at first. But this can be done in a safe and reliable way (just like public key cryptography is made possible). In fact, it should have been done long ago... There are a few topics here where this question has been explained in great detail (how such an exchange would work) Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: danfoda on August 04, 2016, 05:20:36 PM What are they gonna do about peoples lost money? Law suits will be hell for them...
Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: valta4065 on August 04, 2016, 05:24:01 PM I don't understand what you propose. What would be the point of a decentralised exchange? A decentralized distributed exchange would make such exchanges as Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, et al., unnecessary and obsolete, thereby totally eliminating the very possibility of a scam or a hack that happen now and then, and then again Well... maybe... Just how can you create such a thing? Exchanging btc in decentralized way is easy, but buying and selling btc in decentralized way? I don't understand I'm afraid ^^' I understand your misunderstanding since this question had also perplexed me a lot at first. But this can be done in a safe and reliable way (just like public key cryptography is made possible). In fact, it should have been done long ago... There are a few topics here where this question has been explained in great detail (how such an exchange would work) Well then, it should have been done indeed. Because private exchanges are just the banks of btc, with the same basic problems of trust issues. Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: deisik on August 04, 2016, 05:41:14 PM I don't understand what you propose. What would be the point of a decentralised exchange? A decentralized distributed exchange would make such exchanges as Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, et al., unnecessary and obsolete, thereby totally eliminating the very possibility of a scam or a hack that happen now and then, and then again Well... maybe... Just how can you create such a thing? Exchanging btc in decentralized way is easy, but buying and selling btc in decentralized way? I don't understand I'm afraid ^^' I understand your misunderstanding since this question had also perplexed me a lot at first. But this can be done in a safe and reliable way (just like public key cryptography is made possible). In fact, it should have been done long ago... There are a few topics here where this question has been explained in great detail (how such an exchange would work) Well then, it should have been done indeed. Because private exchanges are just the banks of btc, with the same basic problems of trust issues. At least, banks deposits are insured in many countries up to a certain amount. I'd been through this before when the bank where I had some money was "disqualified" by the Central Bank, and I got my money back in just two weeks (with the interest due)... Indeed, I was savvy enough not to exceed the insured amount limit Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: olubams on August 04, 2016, 05:58:16 PM In my own opinion, I think the Wallet owners owes every individual to keep their money safe and until they are being held responsible this will continue to happen. Imagine keeping money in a bank that was robbed , the bank will pay back because its their duty to protect their own facilities every time and not make it vulnerable to hackers. I feel for those who lost their resources but its high time someone is being held responsible... My opinion though...
Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: deisik on August 04, 2016, 06:21:46 PM In my own opinion, I think the Wallet owners owes every individual to keep their money safe and until they are being held responsible this will continue to happen. Imagine keeping money in a bank that was robbed , the bank will pay back because its their duty to protect their own facilities every time and not make it vulnerable to hackers. I feel for those who lost their resources but its high time someone is being held responsible... My opinion though... It's high time to make the next step and get rid of this recurring problem for good I stopped all my cryptotrading when I had fully realized after the (in)famous Bter hack in February, 2015, that it is not a matter of if but when an exchange gets hacked. Though I was lucky that my funds weren't affected then (only bitcoins were stolen, while I had doges), but I read the writing on the wall very well (and advise everyone to do the same)... So, no matter how successfully you trade, you will, nevertheless, lose everything in the end Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: expert4knowledge on August 04, 2016, 11:51:59 PM For more than a year I've been proposing to extend Bitcoin technology to include what is called a decentralized distributed exchange. During this year two major Bitcoin exchanges got hacked, namely, Cryptsy and Bitfinex (probably more). I don't know how much money people lost at Cryptsy, but is 65 million dollars not enough to finally come up with a solution that would exclude this single point of failure from the equation altogether? I could potentially delve into Bitcoin and come up with something like that myself, but I'm not sure that Bitcoin won't die (or get abandoned, if you please) in a few years, so the acquired knowledge would be mostly useless... First of all I am do not agree with you that bitcoin will die in few year, however I think there are some problems of hacking cannot be preveneted easily, specially because of nature of bitcoin they cannot be preveneted and also legal problems related to exchanges and their activities which ties to concept of unkwon ownership of bitcoin. I searched and found this link here:Do Bitcoin developers actually think along the same lines as myself? http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/21513/how-would-a-decentralised-exchange-work In fact, I didn't say that Bitcoin would die in a few years. My point is that I don't find it worthy of time and effort to get into the gory details of Bitcoin technology up to a point where I could fluently contribute (or just contribute, lol) changes to the protocol myself. Apart from developing a few trading bots for cryptocurrency exchanges (which I'm already done with for obvious reasons), I didn't get involved in this field of software development. So I'm concerned if Bitcoin core developers don't feel pretty much the same... That is, don't feel particularly interested in further development and expansion of Bitcoin technology Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: Backside walkaround on August 05, 2016, 12:06:44 AM Bit fines hacking wasn't the biggest in bitcoin history. I guess now after that bitcoin may seem risky for investors or those people who only start to open Bitcoin to themselves, newbies. But the problem is not in bitcoin, the problem is how to protect it from steal. Bitfinex's case sowed to everyone that it is dangerous to hold savings online. I plan to cash out my saving after bitcoin rise back to 700$. Doesn't matter in the least if it was the biggest hack ever. It was another hack, and all of these are pointing toward corrupt exchanges overall. The world seems to be infested with them. I agree with what was written here, I would like to see a decentralized exchange if that's possible. Something has to be done, and I'm sure governments are going to step in and regulate this stuff at some point.Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: actmyname on August 05, 2016, 01:05:03 AM Three people voted for "Nope, a lot more exchanges need to be hacked"?
Ignorant or trolls? A decentralized distributed exchange would make such exchanges as Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, et al. unnecessary and obsolete, thereby totally eliminating the very possibility of a scam or a hack that happen now and then, again and again A decentralized exchange would also be consistent with bitcoin's protocol ;)There are a few topics here where this question has been explained in great detail (how such an exchange would work) I'm sure that some tech-savvy programmers could conjure up a way to create such an exchange then if the topic has already been discussed a number of times. Bit fines hacking wasn't the biggest in bitcoin history. I guess now after that bitcoin may seem risky for investors or those people who only start to open Bitcoin to themselves, newbies. But the problem is not in bitcoin, the problem is how to protect it from steal. Bitfinex's case sowed to everyone that it is dangerous to hold savings online. I plan to cash out my saving after bitcoin rise back to 700$. Doesn't matter in the least if it was the biggest hack ever. It was another hack, and all of these are pointing toward corrupt exchanges overall. The world seems to be infested with them. I agree with what was written here, I would like to see a decentralized exchange if that's possible. Something has to be done, and I'm sure governments are going to step in and regulate this stuff at some point.I appreciate bitcoin technology and people who are engaged in its development and I strongly believe at least the technology which is used here can be a basis for future technologies. It seems that you have a good engagement with bitcoin to with developing bots. Like for example storj.io, which uses blockchain technology to create a secure cloud drive. Using the pre-existing technology is what paves the road to better develpoment.Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: sotoshihero on August 05, 2016, 05:02:29 AM At least, banks deposits are insured in many countries up to a certain amount. I'd been through this before when the bank where I had some money was "disqualified" by the Central Bank, and I got my money back in just two weeks (with the interest due)... Indeed, I was savvy enough not to exceed the insured amount limit Yes, In Central bank in some countries bank deposits are covered to some extent. THIS $65M stolen is from exchange and is not covered by any insurance afaik. Sure, it will affects the bitcoin price in market or possible that it will drag down it or its happening already. What we hope that it will recover soon. Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: MyBTT on August 05, 2016, 05:29:08 AM Three people voted for "Nope, a lot more exchanges need to be hacked"? Ignorant or trolls? A decentralized distributed exchange would make such exchanges as Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, et al. unnecessary and obsolete, thereby totally eliminating the very possibility of a scam or a hack that happen now and then, again and again A decentralized exchange would also be consistent with bitcoin's protocol ;)There are a few topics here where this question has been explained in great detail (how such an exchange would work) I'm sure that some tech-savvy programmers could conjure up a way to create such an exchange then if the topic has already been discussed a number of times. Bit fines hacking wasn't the biggest in bitcoin history. I guess now after that bitcoin may seem risky for investors or those people who only start to open Bitcoin to themselves, newbies. But the problem is not in bitcoin, the problem is how to protect it from steal. Bitfinex's case sowed to everyone that it is dangerous to hold savings online. I plan to cash out my saving after bitcoin rise back to 700$. Doesn't matter in the least if it was the biggest hack ever. It was another hack, and all of these are pointing toward corrupt exchanges overall. The world seems to be infested with them. I agree with what was written here, I would like to see a decentralized exchange if that's possible. Something has to be done, and I'm sure governments are going to step in and regulate this stuff at some point.I appreciate bitcoin technology and people who are engaged in its development and I strongly believe at least the technology which is used here can be a basis for future technologies. It seems that you have a good engagement with bitcoin to with developing bots. Like for example storj.io, which uses blockchain technology to create a secure cloud drive. Using the pre-existing technology is what paves the road to better develpoment.I'm going to side with them. We need to be aware and even learn the lesson that centralisation is not the way to go. We have to grow and invest or energy into a different type of Tech, decentralized tech. At least, banks deposits are insured in many countries up to a certain amount. I'd been through this before when the bank where I had some money was "disqualified" by the Central Bank, and I got my money back in just two weeks (with the interest due)... Indeed, I was savvy enough not to exceed the insured amount limit Yes, In Central bank in some countries bank deposits are covered to some extent. THIS $65M stolen is from exchange and is not covered by any insurance afaik. Sure, it will affects the bitcoin price in market or possible that it will drag down it or its happening already. What we hope that it will recover soon. Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: pooya87 on August 05, 2016, 05:40:40 AM i have seen a couple of projects for a decentralized bitcoin exchange even before this hack happened and i think it can be a push for them to become more popular but i doubt that people are going to give up the centralized exchanges and the risks involved with them this easily !
Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: deisik on August 05, 2016, 06:18:34 AM i have seen a couple of projects for a decentralized bitcoin exchange even before this hack happened and i think it can be a push for them to become more popular but i doubt that people are going to give up the centralized exchanges and the risks involved with them this easily ! I gave up cryptocurrency trading just because of that (fully switched to fiat world). If I didn't do that, I would have lost my money twice already, at Cryptsy and, yeah, at Bitfinex. Cryptsy always looked fishy to me with their hell of withdrawals and front-running user orders (I was laughed out when I raised these issues in their chat-box), and I warned people here about these sure signs of a future scam... But at Bitfinex I would have lost everything that I earned through Bitcoin operations Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: Cryptological on August 23, 2016, 07:29:15 AM Well, I think that loading Bitcoins to an exchange is similar to opening a deposit at your bank. There is no 100% guarantee, but you still have criteria to choose the best and trustworthy exchange or bank. If you don't want to do that, keep your money/Bitcoins under your bed/in your wallets.
I mostly keep BTC on my wallet, and trade the rest of them on CEX.IO. I chose them, because they've been on the market for a long time, have registration docs right on the website, PCI DSS certificate, have cold wallets, and all the stuff. And they suit me in terms of easy deposits and withdrawals using credit cards, which is very important for me. Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: panju1 on August 23, 2016, 03:28:53 PM Well, I think that loading Bitcoins to an exchange is similar to opening a deposit at your bank. There is no 100% guarantee, but you still have criteria to choose the best and trustworthy exchange or bank. If you don't want to do that, keep your money/Bitcoins under your bed/in your wallets. I mostly keep BTC on my wallet, and trade the rest of them on CEX.IO. I chose them, because they've been on the market for a long time, have registration docs right on the website, PCI DSS certificate, have cold wallets, and all the stuff. And they suit me in terms of easy deposits and withdrawals using credit cards, which is very important for me. Slight difference... most banks (at least in the place where I stay) have insured deposits (to a certain extent). They are also regulated and so you know for sure that certain safeguards are in place. With bitcoin exchanges, you are in the wild, wild west. Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: dihari on August 23, 2016, 03:29:15 PM Because of bitcoin is desentralized, there's nothing responsibility.
Exchanger is not like a bank that can secure their money in the box. Once the money change to be "data", its not safe anymore. Title: Re: 65 million dollars stolen (and counting) from Bitfinex and so what? Post by: BillyBobZorton on August 23, 2016, 04:41:40 PM Sadly we'll see more centralized exchanges dying and taking people's money out in the process. Traders need to keep funds inside exchanges to take profit of whats going on, you cannot afford to lose time between sending from your bitcoin wallet to the exchange wallet... I am constantly searching for ways to create a decentralized exchange but I am not that smart. We'll need the help of the great minds in the crypto game to come up with something clever.
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