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Title: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: CharlesPonzi on March 27, 2013, 02:06:52 AM In case the internet goes down or becomes controlled in some way there should be a backup comprised of small repeaters and transmitters that are easily hidden and cheap.
One of the arguments against bitcoin adoption is that it is pointless in the case where the internet is down. This may need an economic incentive built in somehow. http://www.servalproject.org/ maybe combined with this on an android phone. A small bitcoin node that doubles as its own mesh node. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: cbeast on March 27, 2013, 02:15:37 AM I would think this would be useful in poor, densely populated cities.
Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: Xenland on March 27, 2013, 02:43:03 AM Satellite internet :D
Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: RATM69 on March 27, 2013, 02:51:48 AM Mesh network app for phones that be cool. If you didn't have "unlimited" services on your phone your probably wouldn't want to participate though. It may not even be possible since it's outside the scope of my brain. Not real sure what it would take to accomplish this.
Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: Stephen Gornick on March 27, 2013, 03:44:21 AM A small bitcoin node that doubles as its own mesh node. Or a small mesh node that doubles as a bitcoin node: - https://commons.thefnf.org/index.php/FreedomNode Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: shamaniotastook on March 27, 2013, 10:02:42 PM don't mean to rain on your parade, but the fact is that the Internet is indeed the largest mesh network even possible and to propose a 'supporting' network is almost ludicrous, because by definition, such a network would simply become an extension of the network. in fact, there is NO WAY that bitcoin itself could operate without the Internet....again, setting up a 'second' or 'supporting' Internet is not really technically correct way to see it, because by definition this 'extension' or 'supporting' network would simply be another part of the Internet.
anyway, you can't really create an 'internet' backup, and your question demonstrates you don't really know how the Internet works, or what it means. I'm just trying to help clarify so you don't waste years on a dream that is fruitless. The Internet is just that INTER-NET, it's not just one network, but literally millions or billions of nets all tied together, and even the BitCoin network is just another extension. amazing right, when you really stop to think about it. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: Zeilap on March 27, 2013, 10:21:27 PM don't mean to rain on your parade, but the fact is that the Internet is indeed the largest mesh network even possible and to propose a 'supporting' network is almost ludicrous, because by definition, such a network would simply become an extension of the network. in fact, there is NO WAY that bitcoin itself could operate without the Internet....again, setting up a 'second' or 'supporting' Internet is not really technically correct way to see it, because by definition this 'extension' or 'supporting' network would simply be another part of the Internet. Actually, it's pretty clear that you're the one who doesn't know how the internet works nor what a mesh network is.anyway, you can't really create an 'internet' backup, and your question demonstrates you don't really know how the Internet works, or what it means. I'm just trying to help clarify so you don't waste years on a dream that is fruitless. The Internet is just that INTER-NET, it's not just one network, but literally millions or billions of nets all tied together, and even the BitCoin network is just another extension. amazing right, when you really stop to think about it. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: MoonShadow on March 27, 2013, 10:24:12 PM don't mean to rain on your parade, but the fact is that the Internet is indeed the largest mesh network even possible and to propose a 'supporting' network is almost ludicrous, because by definition, such a network would simply become an extension of the network. in fact, there is NO WAY that bitcoin itself could operate without the Internet....again, setting up a 'second' or 'supporting' Internet is not really technically correct way to see it, because by definition this 'extension' or 'supporting' network would simply be another part of the Internet. Actually, it's pretty clear that you're the one who doesn't know how the internet works nor what a mesh network is.anyway, you can't really create an 'internet' backup, and your question demonstrates you don't really know how the Internet works, or what it means. I'm just trying to help clarify so you don't waste years on a dream that is fruitless. The Internet is just that INTER-NET, it's not just one network, but literally millions or billions of nets all tied together, and even the BitCoin network is just another extension. amazing right, when you really stop to think about it. Or that bitcoin can work without the Internet. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: MoonShadow on March 27, 2013, 10:25:23 PM I'll just leave this here....
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159617.0 Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: shamaniotastook on March 28, 2013, 12:18:34 AM I'm not talking about 'The Web'
I'm talking about the Internet...seriously, maybe you have some secret knowledge i'm not aware of, but what are you going to overlay 'your' particular flavor of mesh onto? what's the difference between the Internet and an Intranet? how are mesh topologies accomplished in an enterprise, using which communication protocol stacks, etc., and even remote db access, etc., all over INTERNET PROTOCOLS whatever...yeah, i'm the idiot...bitcoin doesn't need the internet, you all have it all figured out! ha! have fun with your meshes boys. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: shamaniotastook on March 28, 2013, 12:19:42 AM one more thing...how's your 'mesh' going to connect a merchant in chicago to a buyer in australia?
Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: MoonShadow on March 28, 2013, 01:02:06 AM Newbs!
Bitcoin doesn't require internet access to transact, but it does require a connection. A packet radio connection, or modem connection over ham radio would work fine for spending. It wouldn't work as well for mining. BTW, I wasn't talking about the "web" either. Try reading a bit more before you display your ignorance, please. EDIT: A pair of android based bitcoin apps connected across a piratebox (http://wiki.daviddarts.com/PirateBox_DIY) and two people can transact in meatspace miles from a working 3G signal. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: MoonShadow on March 28, 2013, 01:05:31 AM I'm talking about the Internet...seriously, maybe you have some secret knowledge i'm not aware of, but what are you going to overlay 'your' particular flavor of mesh onto? Nothing. We're talking about backup infrastructure for bitcoin. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: 01BTC10 on March 28, 2013, 01:07:40 AM Slightly related. I wonder what happened to this project : http://vimeo.com/40711689
Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: MoonShadow on March 28, 2013, 01:09:11 AM Slightly related. I wonder what happened to this project : http://vimeo.com/40711689 It's been a couple of months since I last email those guys, but last I checked, they claim that they are still only a couple months away from release. I've grown accustomed to disapointment. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: shamaniotastook on March 28, 2013, 01:23:53 AM it really isn't worth arguing, but just one more question and then i'll leave it alone...how long you think you're power will be on if the 'Internet' fails? again, i should just shut up, but talking about proposing any network to simply act as a 'backup' for the internet just doesn't make sense in my world...but who knows what works in your world...
Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: CharlesPonzi on March 28, 2013, 01:28:15 AM I'm talking about the Internet...seriously, maybe you have some secret knowledge i'm not aware of, but what are you going to overlay 'your' particular flavor of mesh onto? Nothing. We're talking about backup infrastructure for bitcoin. Moonshadow is correct. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: CharlesPonzi on March 28, 2013, 01:30:55 AM it really isn't worth arguing, but just one more question and then i'll leave it alone...how long you think you're power will be on if the 'Internet' fails? again, i should just shut up, but talking about proposing any network to simply act as a 'backup' for the internet just doesn't make sense in my world...but who knows what works in your world... You dont have a solar array and/or a generator in case your power goes out ? newb. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: Digigami on March 28, 2013, 01:37:13 AM on Molecular's suggestion regarding a amateur packet radio setup, I wonder how many individuals there are in the wild with those capabilities?
I actually am a ham operator, and have a packet terminal and radio's.. I have no idea how on earth I could try and get that to work with a bitcoin client though. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: shamaniotastook on March 28, 2013, 01:40:48 AM honestly, if the Internet goes dark, i don't think anyone will be willing to trade anything of true value (e.g. food, water, medical supplies, alcohol, guns, tobacco, drugs, etc) for BTC, USD, gold, silver, nothing...and i dont' care if someone has a backup power supply or not, if the Internet goes down all hell breaks loose and even if you had 30kw generator and solar cells, food stocked to the nuts, everything...what good with BTC do you then? You going to whip out your mesh android and sell some beans and grits to mr. needy cause he has nothing but bitcoins?
the truth is, even the most die-hard doomsday survivalist is going to be strapped to even exist beyond a few months without infrastructure...too late to go back now, we're all globally interconnected and interdependent. now i'm really done posting on this thread as i am messin' with all-ya-all's zen Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: Elwar on March 28, 2013, 01:50:39 AM The trouble these days with the Internet is the ISPs. They are the weakest link in between us and the government.
To create a mesh around the ISPs but can still connect to the Internet is the way to go. I believe that Bitcoin is the key to funding such a thing. I would be fine with becoming an Internet repeater that generates Bitcoins on a pay per use type of structure. And like many who have been looking at the pirate boxes, setting up solar powered repeaters all over town (on top of light poles, tall trees, water tower, etc.) to create a full mesh would bipass the whole need for an ISP. If people can set up repeaters and get paid like people are getting paid to mine, we could reach the point where the mesh grid is more widely accessed than ISPs. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: shamaniotastook on March 28, 2013, 01:53:46 AM The trouble these days with the Internet is the ISPs. They are the weakest link in between us and the government. To create a mesh around the ISPs but can still connect to the Internet is the way to go. I believe that Bitcoin is the key to funding such a thing. I would be fine with becoming an Internet repeater that generates Bitcoins on a pay per use type of structure. And like many who have been looking at the pirate boxes, setting up solar powered repeaters all over town (on top of light poles, tall trees, water tower, etc.) to create a full mesh would bipass the whole need for an ISP. If people can set up repeaters and get paid like people are getting paid to mine, we could reach the point where the mesh grid is more widely accessed than ISPs. now this is starting to make some sense :) Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: MoonShadow on March 28, 2013, 04:10:09 AM it really isn't worth arguing, but just one more question and then i'll leave it alone...how long you think you're power will be on if the 'Internet' fails? again, i should just shut up, but talking about proposing any network to simply act as a 'backup' for the internet just doesn't make sense in my world...but who knows what works in your world... I was once an electritian in a former life, and I have experience with solar arrays, dc power conversion & ham radio. So, yeah, I think I can manage it. Title: Re: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ? Post by: Stephen Gornick on September 12, 2013, 04:34:59 AM To create a mesh around the ISPs but can still connect to the Internet is the way to go. Here's what you are describing: Quote Mesh networks can also connect to the wider commercial internet, which KC Freedom Network does right now through a central access point — a commercial data center downtown, which is housed in one of the city’s tallest buildings called Oak Tower, providing ample opportunity to beam the bits around town using a microwave transmitter. - http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4580244/broadband-gap-google-fiber-isnt-the-only-revolution-in-kansas-city I believe that Bitcoin is the key to funding such a thing. I would be fine with becoming an Internet repeater that generates Bitcoins on a pay per use type of structure. This has nothing to do with mesh but it is a method that a wifi hotspot can charge in bitcoins: - http://www.coindesk.com/raspberry-pi-used-to-power-bitcoin-funded-wifi-hotspot/ |