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Title: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Crystallas on March 29, 2013, 05:20:16 AM Just relaying what I saw in the chat. You can check the BFL chat archives for yourself.
The units are working, but the last issue is fixing the power drain. Some units are using more than 2x as much power than necessary and they think they know how to fix it very soon. They have to fix the drain issue, because despite the power consumption still being low, it's causing heat issues. If the power/heat issues still exist with the BitForce Single SC(60GH unit), then BFL will option to ship two Little Single SC(30GH units) in its place until the problem is resolved. Once this is fixed, units are expected to ship. The rough projection is 2 weeks. In an absolute perfect world, units might ship next week. They can build about 400 units a day. If you're an early pre-order, and have a FPGA unit getting traded up, check the site to find out when. Take the news or leave it. I'm not a BFL apologist, but I was curious. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: philips on March 29, 2013, 05:24:03 AM If the power/heat issues still exist with the BitForce Single SC(60GH unit), then BFL will option to ship two Little Single SC(30GH units) in its place until the problem is resolved. Or (from what I understand) you can wait until the issue is fixed on all counts and receive a (fully functional) single unit as ordered. But who is gonna do that? :) Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: philips on March 29, 2013, 05:30:12 AM Quote 28 March 2013 - Mini-Update I had wanted to post a video tonight, but wasn't able to make that happen, so let me apologize for that in advance. As some of you may know from the chatbox, we have been working diligently to get these ASICs out the door. We've been tracking down a power issue these last few days and have it isolated to a few key systems. In the interest of time, we are planning on potentially scaling back units hashing speed as required to accommodate the extra power and shipping multiple units to those that want their units right now. If would would prefer to wait for a unit after we've made some changes to the systems that need a bit of tweaking, we will be happy to put your shipment on hold. However, if you'd rather have the units right now at an increased power usage, we will ship you as many units as required to get you to the hashrate your purchased, if we end up having to scale back any given class of unit to fit within the power envelope of the current board design. We have the current design hashing, and as I said, I had hoped to have a video of a unit hashing here in KC, but I wasn't able to bring that all together tonight, but hopefully I can get it posted up tomorrow or by this weekend. I will update as soon as I have more news to share, with a video. If you absolutely do not want a unit that is consuming more power than expected, you can let us know you'd like to wait for a revised unit or you are welcome to request a refund. If you'd rather have your units shipped regardless of increased power usage, we will still guarantee your hashrate by shipping you however many units are required to achieve your purchased hashrate. There is no need to contact us right now if you are not concerned about the power usage and just want your units shipped ASAP. Even with the increased power demand on these first units, they will still out perform any competing products by a very wide margin in terms of power and megahash/J. Again, we apologize for the delay, but we are almost there. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: zedicus on March 29, 2013, 06:03:08 AM April fools ? LOL
Bazinga! Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on March 29, 2013, 06:15:03 AM Finally! Now the various units can be sent out for UL and FCC approval. I'm pretty sure that's only a 24 hour process, 48 hours at the most, being that a holiday weekend is at hand. Meanwhile, a wave of emails, like a swarm of locust, is going to be sent out for customers to send in their FPGAs, otherwise no ASICs. All should go smoothly from this point forward since enough time has past to make sure all the information on file is up to date and the 1/3:1/3:1/3 shipping arrangement has been all ironed out.
Happy Days! Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: fatpan on March 29, 2013, 06:15:39 AM Will they change the PCB??
And first 5000 chips, how many ASIC can be made?? I dont thinks it wll ship so fast. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: The-Real-Link on March 29, 2013, 06:21:04 AM They're a little over power target but any ASIC at this point will do. Hopefully they do solve things expediently and get them out the door.
At least the good news is for any of us running any semblance of a substantial mining setup shouldn't have any issue dissipating say, 400-1200w (depending on what you've ordered and how BFL may compensate with # of rigs for the ordered hashrate). Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Unacceptable on March 29, 2013, 06:23:40 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;)
Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: philips on March 29, 2013, 06:23:56 AM Will they change the PCB?? And first 5000 chips, how many ASIC can be made?? I dont thinks it wll ship so fast. PCB related: Quote Bogart, the rest of the 6 wafers, we have been holding off on the last 5 layers for the rest of the chips to be sure we don't need to make a tweak in the metal layer due to the power issue. I think we've pretty much settled that hte power issue is NOT in the chip, but somewhere in the substrate or PCB (or if it were in the chip, it's not something that's easily and quickly fixed). Quote The power is still far less than any other unit, so it's not like it's something crazy or anything, but it's not 1w/GH and we're trying to locate the source of the power drain. It may require a revision of the substrate and/or the PCB. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: loshia on March 29, 2013, 06:37:08 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;) Dude,Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Pls remember "the crap out of 600 watts" Pays the electricity itself with a day or two work for a year:) What about this crap? I am happy to have that crap in my hands LOL! Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: polrpaul on March 29, 2013, 06:38:28 AM Sheep. Beh.
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: creativex on March 29, 2013, 06:42:09 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;) Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Pretty sure the guy with the batch 3 Avalon pre-order will have his unit paid for before someone ordering this week from BFL receives anything...and as to power consumption...I've toyed with the idea of putting Radeon 4850s back to work hashing at this exchange rate and $.08/KwH. ASICMiner is paying the equivalent of $.25 for power on 130nm chips and I think they're doing ok profit wise with their 6.5Th. Power consumption does not matter right now and by the time it is important there'll likely be more options available. Time to delivery is what matters and BFL's competition has beaten them soundly. BFL should just ship whatever they have that doesn't explode as soon as it's plugged in. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: repentance on March 29, 2013, 06:43:54 AM Will they change the PCB?? And first 5000 chips, how many ASIC can be made?? I dont thinks it wll ship so fast. Only BFL knows how many of each unit they're going to make from the first 5,000 chips. Based on the wait list thread, it's probably not going to fill more than the first few days orders even if Josh doesn't take any of the units he ordered - but some of the people who ordered in those first few days may choose to wait until the power problems are solved. BFL is only sticking the boards in their cases for the first batch so they can probably ship fairly fast once they receive the boards. What might slow things down a bit is the administrative stuff. I don't see how it's going to be viable to stick with the 1/3 shipping plan now and FIFO is going to be complicated by some people choosing to wait rather than accept low spec units. Plus people need to return their FPGAs. Let's hope customer service is on the ball so there are no clusterfucks on their part. I wonder whether the lifetime warranty will apply to any units which are shipped sub-spec. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: monkee on March 29, 2013, 06:57:24 AM Just relaying what I saw in the chat. You can check the BFL chat archives for yourself. The units are working, this was not said in chat. no idea if a single unit has been assembled or tested. the last info is about a test rig. but the last issue is fixing the power drain. Some units are using more than 2x as much power than necessary they did not state that the issue was with "some units". it is likely all units. also the figure of 2x was not stated and they think they know how to fix it very soon. they did not say they think they know how to fix it, or that they would do so very soon They have to fix the drain issue, because despite the power consumption still being low, it's causing heat issues. may cause heat issues. likely but they never stated there were heat issues, just the possibility If the power/heat issues still exist with the BitForce Single SC(60GH unit), then BFL will option to ship two Little Single SC(30GH units) in its place until the problem is resolved. again, many assumptions. this was not stated. they said they would ship "purchased hash rate". many people purchased prior to the spec upgrade, also it may take 3 little singles and a jalapeno to meet that 40 or 60 gh. we don't know and they may not yet either. also they never mentioned existing heat issues Once this is fixed, units are expected to ship. The rough projection is 2 weeks. In an absolute perfect world, units might ship next week. They can build about 400 units a day. If you're an early pre-order, and have a FPGA unit getting traded up, check the site to find out when. again, not stated. this post jumps to a lot of assumptions and could be very misleading. i advise anyone to read the actual quote from the shoutbox instead https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160584.0 Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Unacceptable on March 29, 2013, 07:14:09 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;) Dude,Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Pls remember "the crap out of 600 watts" Pays the electricity itself with a day or two work for a year:) What about this crap? I am happy to have that crap in my hands LOL! Post back here in 6-12 months & let me how much more your earning than me :P Really,I'm happy Avalon got thiers out ;) Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: creativex on March 29, 2013, 07:22:40 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;) Dude,Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Pls remember "the crap out of 600 watts" Pays the electricity itself with a day or two work for a year:) What about this crap? I am happy to have that crap in my hands LOL! Post back here in 6-12 months & let me how much more your earning than me :P Really,I'm happy Avalon got thiers out ;) Still not getting it I guess. Oh well. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Unacceptable on March 29, 2013, 07:24:58 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;) Dude,Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Pls remember "the crap out of 600 watts" Pays the electricity itself with a day or two work for a year:) What about this crap? I am happy to have that crap in my hands LOL! Post back here in 6-12 months & let me how much more your earning than me :P Really,I'm happy Avalon got thiers out ;) Still not getting it I guess. Oh well. Never will either,remember,I ordered from BFL ;) Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: philips on March 29, 2013, 07:29:05 AM Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: creativex on March 29, 2013, 07:29:50 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;) Dude,Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Pls remember "the crap out of 600 watts" Pays the electricity itself with a day or two work for a year:) What about this crap? I am happy to have that crap in my hands LOL! Post back here in 6-12 months & let me how much more your earning than me :P Really,I'm happy Avalon got thiers out ;) Still not getting it I guess. Oh well. Never will either,remember,I ordered from BFL ;) Did you sign a contract that said you'd suspend your common sense? Surely you can see the mining profitability charts at blockchain? An ASIC in hand right this second is worth it's weight in silver, there's no telling what the future will bring, but right now the most important factor in ordering is obviously *WHEN*. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: loshia on March 29, 2013, 07:40:10 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;) Dude,Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Pls remember "the crap out of 600 watts" Pays the electricity itself with a day or two work for a year:) What about this crap? I am happy to have that crap in my hands LOL! Post back here in 6-12 months & let me how much more your earning than me :P Really,I'm happy Avalon got thiers out ;) Dude, I do not know of others btach 1 others but i do belive 90% of them are delivered yet. Speaking of btc earnings alone the BFL customers will never be able to catch up in BTC for a life time period Avalons batch 1. I can bet on that and i know i will win but i do not want to wait for that bet for obvious reasons :) Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Bowjob on March 29, 2013, 07:42:16 AM "I would probably have to commit seppeku if we were delayed until April." -BFL_Josh
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/632-getting-ready-april.html Josh, you need to restore honor! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Edo_period_Wakizashi.jpg Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: loshia on March 29, 2013, 07:50:22 AM "I would probably have to commit seppeku if we were delayed until April." -BFL_Josh No way dude :)https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/632-getting-ready-april.html Josh, you need to restore honor! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Edo_period_Wakizashi.jpg https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158101.msg1676215#msg1676215 Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: creativex on March 29, 2013, 08:18:40 AM "I would probably have to commit seppeku if we were delayed until April." -BFL_Josh No way dude :)https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/632-getting-ready-april.html Josh, you need to restore honor! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158101.msg1676215#msg1676215 Meh...null and void as Josh couldn't spell that day. :-\ Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Crystallas on March 29, 2013, 08:42:49 AM Just relaying what I saw in the chat. You can check the BFL chat archives for yourself. The units are working, this was not said in chat. no idea if a single unit has been assembled or tested. the last info is about a test rig. but the last issue is fixing the power drain. Some units are using more than 2x as much power than necessary they did not state that the issue was with "some units". it is likely all units. also the figure of 2x was not stated and they think they know how to fix it very soon. they did not say they think they know how to fix it, or that they would do so very soon They have to fix the drain issue, because despite the power consumption still being low, it's causing heat issues. may cause heat issues. likely but they never stated there were heat issues, just the possibility If the power/heat issues still exist with the BitForce Single SC(60GH unit), then BFL will option to ship two Little Single SC(30GH units) in its place until the problem is resolved. again, many assumptions. this was not stated. they said they would ship "purchased hash rate". many people purchased prior to the spec upgrade, also it may take 3 little singles and a jalapeno to meet that 40 or 60 gh. we don't know and they may not yet either. also they never mentioned existing heat issues Once this is fixed, units are expected to ship. The rough projection is 2 weeks. In an absolute perfect world, units might ship next week. They can build about 400 units a day. If you're an early pre-order, and have a FPGA unit getting traded up, check the site to find out when. again, not stated. this post jumps to a lot of assumptions and could be very misleading. i advise anyone to read the actual quote from the shoutbox instead https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160584.0 Actually, all of it was said in chat. Going back to the archives, https://forums.butterflylabs.com/vbshout.php?message=&username=BFL&hours=12&from[month]=0&from[day]=&from[year]=0&end[month]=0&end[day]=&end[year]=0&filter[shout]=1&chatroomid=0&orderby=DESC&perpage=100&s=&do=archive&instanceid=1 Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Unacceptable on March 29, 2013, 08:59:28 AM Its about 40TH worth,give or take ;) Dude,Even 120-150 watts @ 60GH beats the crap out of 600 watts :P & $6000-8000 ::) Pls remember "the crap out of 600 watts" Pays the electricity itself with a day or two work for a year:) What about this crap? I am happy to have that crap in my hands LOL! Post back here in 6-12 months & let me how much more your earning than me :P Really,I'm happy Avalon got thiers out ;) Dude, I do not know of others btach 1 others but i do belive 90% of them are delivered yet. Speaking of btc earnings alone the BFL customers will never be able to catch up in BTC for a life time period Avalons batch 1. I can bet on that and i know i will win but i do not want to wait for that bet for obvious reasons :) Yes,you win & so do about 150 others out of 300 from 1st batch that shipped on Jan 20.Lets see,over 60 days with no tracking info,no email from Avalon,nothing to do but sit & wait,really the best company won. Both Avalon & BFL have thier issues,but I'm very sure BFL's units will do just fine catching up in the next year or so. BTW,loshia,you live in China correct?? So,warranty return will be easy & cheap for you,how about those of us in the US ?? Or even in UK,shipping back to China is gonna be pricey,have fun :D Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: CoinHoarder on March 29, 2013, 09:11:32 AM BFL shipping next week? LOL
I'll believe it when I see it.. ::) Also... 400 units a day? ROFL Avalon can only produce about 600 units a month with their awesome assembly/production equipment. BFL bought their assembly/production equipment off of Ebay (TRUTH), lol. 400 units a day... that's comedy! Somehow BFL thinks they will be 2000% more effecient in assembling electronics than the Chinese. ::) :D Must be those unicorn hairs Inaba keeps referring to. ;) Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: rini17 on March 29, 2013, 09:21:35 AM Hi all, regardless whether you have BFL order pending, you can join the fray by betting:
http://bitbet.us/bet/307/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-july-1st/?ref=1EteoRKNYbNhhmFfsKnUSWRF3JUpKCcMnc or, if you prefer lower risk, buy or short CoinBr difficulty futures (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140608.0). Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: loshia on March 29, 2013, 09:24:23 AM Yes,you win & so do about 150 others out of 300 from 1st batch that shipped on Jan 20.Lets see,over 60 days with no tracking info,no email from Avalon,nothing to do but sit & wait,really the best company won. Both Avalon & BFL have thier issues,but I'm very sure BFL's units will do just fine catching up in the next year or so. BTW,loshia,you live in China correct?? So,warranty return will be easy & cheap for you,how about those of us in the US ?? Or even in UK,shipping back to China is gonna be pricey,have fun :D Dude, I do not live in china at all. I agree that Avalon has their issues about "customer relations" also no doubt about it. Buy the way there are a lot of reports from US happy customers also. They got their units. Just to clarify that i really do truly regret about all of BFL customers. For the reference: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148832.msg1604616#msg1604616 But no hard feelings for you and all BFL defenders here. You guys are just blind and you can not agree with simple facts as they are. And you do know that what you speak is not making any sense in current situation, don't you? Best PS: just for the reference how do you think to catch up withh 200+btc at least made by avalon amusing you got BFL units in a month - pretty doubtfully for sure. Just do your math and face the facts I am talking about batch 1 only. Math may look a little bit different for next Avalon batches though. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: rupy on March 29, 2013, 09:39:21 AM So this was expected, if they had 1GH/W we would have known already. But if they deliver 60GH in two singles that draw 60W each, that's ok! 2W per GH is still x20 better than 40W of my FPGA's! Alot better than Avalons x6!
If they need 3 singles to give 60GH at 60W that's still twice as good as Avalon. Not to mention design, size and noise! Now it's just a question of delivery dates, nobody will wait for fixed power electronics, but for us that ordered in 2013 we'll get those anyhow. Good news all around! Now we're just waiting for proof (and maybe proof of delivery) until we release a shitstorm of orders... Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: dave3 on March 29, 2013, 09:56:19 AM With the increase in the value of bitcoins, I wonder if they'll raise their prices after they ship the preorders.
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Enigma81 on March 29, 2013, 10:02:13 AM Also... 400 units a day? ROFL Avalon can only produce about 600 units a month with their awesome assembly/production equipment. BFL bought their assembly/production equipment off of Ebay (TRUTH), lol. 400 units a day... that's comedy! Speaking from experience, I can tell you that (if they had enough raw chips) building 400 Singles or Jalapenos per day would be no problem at all. The Singles/Jalapenos are MUCH simpler to assemble than an Avalon. BFL isn't using their (ebay) gear to build the circuit boards. They are contracting a CM in (if memory serves) Chicago and then presumably doing the final assembly in house. Any CM with a decent set of gear could crank out 400 of those PCB's in a few hours. Real build rate for the PCBA is probably 2 minutes per board for a reasonable automated assembly line. Dropping the boards and the heat-sink into an enclosure shouldn't take more than 5 minutes, so 400 units per day would be 33 Man-Hours per day for assembly. That's 4 people. I'm not suggesting they will or will not manufacture 400 per day, I'm just pointing out that it is nowhere near impossible. Enigma Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Enigma81 on March 29, 2013, 10:03:38 AM With the increase in the value of bitcoins, I wonder if they'll raise their prices after they ship the preorders. If they really are ready to start shipping, honestly, they'd be pretty foolish not to. Once manufacturing/shipping starts to catch up the backlog, people will gladly pay much more for what they have to offer. Enigma Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: loshia on March 29, 2013, 10:25:28 AM With the increase in the value of bitcoins, I wonder if they'll raise their prices after they ship the preorders. If they really are ready to start shipping, honestly, they'd be pretty foolish not to. Once manufacturing/shipping starts to catch up the backlog, people will gladly pay much more for what they have to offer. Enigma As long as i can see we customers can take a lot :) Why - euphoria, greed, wrong math excitement lost of common sense? As long as we take it and buy they will raise the prices for sure. As long as we act as a community they will have to obey to us. But this aint going to happen Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: mobodick on March 29, 2013, 10:26:18 AM Just relaying what I saw in the chat. You can check the BFL chat archives for yourself. The units are working, but the last issue is fixing the power drain. Some units are using more than 2x as much power than necessary and they think they know how to fix it very soon. They have to fix the drain issue, because despite the power consumption still being low, it's causing heat issues. If the power/heat issues still exist with the BitForce Single SC(60GH unit), then BFL will option to ship two Little Single SC(30GH units) in its place until the problem is resolved. Once this is fixed, units are expected to ship. The rough projection is 2 weeks. In an absolute perfect world, units might ship next week. They can build about 400 units a day. If you're an early pre-order, and have a FPGA unit getting traded up, check the site to find out when. Take the news or leave it. I'm not a BFL apologist, but I was curious. Just a note, if BFL says that in a perfect world they would ship in a week that means that in reality it will be end of April at best but probably end of May, start of June. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: mobodick on March 29, 2013, 10:28:10 AM With the increase in the value of bitcoins, I wonder if they'll raise their prices after they ship the preorders. If they really are ready to start shipping, honestly, they'd be pretty foolish not to. Once manufacturing/shipping starts to catch up the backlog, people will gladly pay much more for what they have to offer. Enigma As long as i can see we customers can take a lot :) Why - euphoria, greed, wrong math excitement lost of common sense? As long as we take it and buy they will raise the prices for sure. As long as we act as a community they will have to obey to us. But this aint going to happen It is not a simple equation at all since no product actually moved hands. There is no supply as of yet. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: loshia on March 29, 2013, 10:30:55 AM With the increase in the value of bitcoins, I wonder if they'll raise their prices after they ship the preorders. If they really are ready to start shipping, honestly, they'd be pretty foolish not to. Once manufacturing/shipping starts to catch up the backlog, people will gladly pay much more for what they have to offer. Enigma As long as i can see we customers can take a lot :) Why - euphoria, greed, wrong math excitement lost of common sense? As long as we take it and buy they will raise the prices for sure. As long as we act as a community they will have to obey to us. But this aint going to happen It is not a simple equation at all since no product actually moved hands. There is no supply as of yet. They need us and we need them. But if we unite we will dictate the rules not them or at least the equation will look differently. Simple as that I am not saying that ASIC manufactures do not deserve a profit not at all. They work hard for it and same applies for us to earn money for living. are yoo going to pay 100K just because there is no supply? or 10K? or how much actually? Just because there is no supply? The only thing which you have to pay for no matter what is your health and you have no option there no supply/demand bulshit . In all other case there is always a choice always even though there is no supply as long as your life does not depend on it Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: PulsedMedia on March 29, 2013, 11:29:48 AM All good and fine, but it's 29th of March now and it was 28th of March their time when they made an update :)
Josh also promised a video. I know that i'm going to order a few more the moment i get confirmation of any product shipped & received. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: zedicus on March 29, 2013, 11:35:09 AM All good and fine, but it's 29th of March now and it was 28th of March their time when they made an update :) Josh also promised a video. I know that i'm going to order a few more the moment i get confirmation of any product shipped & received. Scroll down till you see clint east wood! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147300.100 Re-consider until you here they are accepting the fpga's trade-in! Must back away from they chair !! Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: marra on March 29, 2013, 12:01:29 PM haha, I knew it, the singles will be at 130w... and the life span of those units, my guess, at that density of PCB design, hmmm, a week, or a month top...
perhaps even less... and why no video of a working product... I think when they get the machine on it starts to melt... Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frizz23 on March 29, 2013, 12:08:03 PM haha, I knew it, the singles will be at 130w... and the life span of those units, my guess, at that density of PCB design, hmmm, a week, or a month top... perhaps even less... and why no video of a working product... I think when they get the machine on it starts to melt... Batch #1 & #2 customers - you are looking forward to something like this: http://www.seered.co.uk/141_4197.jpg Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: willphase on March 29, 2013, 12:11:36 PM full transcript here if you don't want to have to manually trawl the shout logs:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b8hvt/bfl_josh_updates_on_asic_status_full_transcript/ Will Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: peterepeat on March 29, 2013, 12:13:28 PM Well, at least BFL offer a Lifetime warranty
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: marra on March 29, 2013, 12:15:49 PM haha, I knew it, the singles will be at 130w... and the life span of those units, my guess, at that density of PCB design, hmmm, a week, or a month top... perhaps even less... and why no video of a working product... I think when they get the machine on it starts to melt... Batch #1 & #2 customers - you are looking forward to something like this: http://www.seered.co.uk/141_4197.jpg Exactly... Just check the design of Avalons, 2.5W per chip and a lot of space between, and still it could over heat if you don't manage it correctly... BFL wants 15W chip without any space in between... Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: greyhawk on March 29, 2013, 12:16:28 PM Well, at least BFL offer a Lifetime warranty Lifetime of the product. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: dave3 on March 29, 2013, 12:19:52 PM Well, at least BFL offer a Lifetime warranty Does the lifetime warranty also cover the cost to replace a house after they burn it down? Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: marra on March 29, 2013, 12:22:45 PM Well, at least BFL offer a Lifetime warranty Does the lifetime warranty also cover the cost to replace a house after they burn it down? no, you'll just a get a disclaimer to never turn it on indoors... Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Zeeks on March 29, 2013, 01:00:13 PM Well, at least BFL offer a Lifetime warranty Lifetime of the product. This is an extremely important and usually overlooked detail. If they stop selling the version you have then it breaks down you get nothing, the product lifetime is over. If they start making a new version immediately after shipping then the warranty will last until they finish shipping the first batch then it's over, which could be a very short time. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Wayne_Chang on March 29, 2013, 01:08:00 PM I think if they really have something can work, no matter how much power drain it is or how hot it is, they can provide a short mining video. But except words, we see nothing.
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: loshia on March 29, 2013, 01:32:15 PM I think if they really have something can work, no matter how much power drain it is or how hot it is, they can provide a short mining video. But except words, we see nothing. Or they just are not able to disguise avalon and post video of it mining :D Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: m3whiteknight on March 29, 2013, 02:03:18 PM do not have time to read the whole thread but is it true that BFL hold off the remain waffer run now while they try to fix problem.
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Tehfiend on March 29, 2013, 02:33:48 PM For those that missed, an update was posted last night @ https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-2.html
Quote 28 March 2013 - Mini-Update I had wanted to post a video tonight, but wasn't able to make that happen, so let me apologize for that in advance. As some of you may know from the chatbox, we have been working diligently to get these ASICs out the door. We've been tracking down a power issue these last few days and have it isolated to a few key systems. In the interest of time, we are planning on potentially scaling back units hashing speed as required to accommodate the extra power and shipping multiple units to those that want their units right now. If would would prefer to wait for a unit after we've made some changes to the systems that need a bit of tweaking, we will be happy to put your shipment on hold. However, if you'd rather have the units right now at an increased power usage, we will ship you as many units as required to get you to the hashrate your purchased, if we end up having to scale back any given class of unit to fit within the power envelope of the current board design. We have the current design hashing, and as I said, I had hoped to have a video of a unit hashing here in KC, but I wasn't able to bring that all together tonight, but hopefully I can get it posted up tomorrow or by this weekend. I will update as soon as I have more news to share, with a video. If you absolutely do not want a unit that is consuming more power than expected, you can let us know you'd like to wait for a revised unit or you are welcome to request a refund. If you'd rather have your units shipped regardless of increased power usage, we will still guarantee your hashrate by shipping you however many units are required to achieve your purchased hashrate. There is no need to contact us right now if you are not concerned about the power usage and just want your units shipped ASAP. Even with the increased power demand on these first units, they will still out perform any competing products by a very wide margin in terms of power and megahash/J. Again, we apologize for the delay, but we are almost there. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Slix on March 29, 2013, 02:44:23 PM Well, at least BFL offer a Lifetime warranty Lifetime of the product. This is an extremely important and usually overlooked detail. If they stop selling the version you have then it breaks down you get nothing, the product lifetime is over. If they start making a new version immediately after shipping then the warranty will last until they finish shipping the first batch then it's over, which could be a very short time. Well I know this is BFL we're talking about, but I don't think they would announce end of life that soon. Typically a company would do a major redesign like whole new PCB layout and/or whole new chip design, change the product name then announce end of life of the old product ahead of time. Even though they are really slow at getting their product out there, they *sound* like they want to accommodate their customers. In the end I think that once BFL finally gets off the ground, I'm sure that their warranty will be much better than 1 year only from a business out of China no less, with possibly more long shipping turn arounds due to customs and such. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: thefiniteidea on March 29, 2013, 02:49:25 PM Finally! Now the various units can be sent out for UL and FCC approval. I'm pretty sure that's only a 24 hour process, 48 hours at the most, being that a holiday weekend is at hand. Meanwhile, a wave of emails, like a swarm of locust, is going to be sent out for customers to send in their FPGAs, otherwise no ASICs. All should go smoothly from this point forward since enough time has past to make sure all the information on file is up to date and the 1/3:1/3:1/3 shipping arrangement has been all ironed out. Happy Days! :D Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: greyhawk on March 29, 2013, 02:51:33 PM Typically a company would do a major redesign like whole new PCB layout and/or whole new chip design, change the product name then announce end of life of the old product ahead of time. Yes, that is indeed what a real company would do. See where the problem is? Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Slix on March 29, 2013, 02:58:55 PM Avalon can only produce about 600 units a month with their awesome assembly/production equipment. BFL bought their assembly/production equipment off of Ebay (TRUTH), lol. 400 units a day... that's comedy! Have you actualy inspected the size and complexity of Avalon vs SC? Well I don't know all the facts, but from the pictures of BFL posted before, it looks like they *might* have a warehouse full of "boxes of fans" probably already equipped with PCBs just waiting for chips to be dropped in them. If that was the case and they had a full-time production of chips going, they might be able to assemble that much per day. Also, if Avalon has such great production equipment, judging from the pictures of their rigs, I can't see why they can't make more in a month. Just looks like GPU sized PCBs with heatsinks in a computer case with a computer PSU. Nothing that fancy or hard to assemble but I guess thats just my opinion... Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Slix on March 29, 2013, 03:01:10 PM Typically a company would do a major redesign like whole new PCB layout and/or whole new chip design, change the product name then announce end of life of the old product ahead of time. Yes, that is indeed what a real company would do. See where the problem is? Hahah, yeah I see what you mean... that's why I opened with "I know this is BFL we're talking about, but...". I have my own reservations but I want to try and keep an open mind :P Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Cluster2k on March 29, 2013, 03:09:01 PM So, BFL is getting closer to ship an ASIC product. Maybe two weeks away if everything goes well.
- How does the increased power consumption affect the Jalapeno product? USB does not deliver bountiful amounts of power as it is - If someone orders today how likely are they to get their product within the next 4 months? It's going to take a while to manufacture enough chips to fill the last 10 months of orders. BFL's page states a 2 month or longer wait, so we can safely double that as they've already missed their late March 2013 shipping date. In four months time I imagine difficulty will be at least 100 times higher than it is today and starting to mine with an ASIC then will be like mining with a 6970 now (not very pforitable). Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: S M I L Y on March 29, 2013, 03:29:00 PM Im fine with them shipping whatever Ghz I ordered.
However they should give more Ghz due to them failing on their power targets. I hope they will give us rework instructions if the power issue is with their board or the VRs. Their board is nothing but VR and ASIC! The current leakage can only be in one of 2 places!!!! Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on March 29, 2013, 03:52:19 PM Im fine with them shipping whatever Ghz I ordered. However they should give more Ghz due to them failing on their power targets. I hope they will give us rework instructions if the power issue is with their board or the VRs. Their board is nothing but VR and ASIC! The current leakage can only be in one of 2 places!!!! Once the finished boards gets back from UL, they'll know exactly where the leak is. There is no way in hell that any of their units are going to leave their factory without UL approval, especially now that they're on record for stating there's a concern. Same true for FCC approval, of which Josh stated back in September he was waiting for the results from them then, expected within a couple weeks. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: jedunnigan on March 29, 2013, 04:07:14 PM Situation with Jalapeno makes me wonder as well. Another thing that makes me wonder is how come new orders would need to wait 2 months if BFL makes 400 units per day, it makes no sense. They haven't got that many orders to start with and a lot of people cancelled their orders, especially in last few months, since problems with delivery date and other issues started. Main concern for me right now is will those who ordered recently or even today will get the new, improved SC, or will be getting "old", flawed ones? To be fair, given their track record they may have erred on the side of caution with date estimates. Say two months, deliver in 1-2, looks good for them. Just a guess. If you ordered today just read Josh's policy: Quote If would would prefer to wait for a unit after we've made some changes to the systems that need a bit of tweaking, we will be happy to put your shipment on hold. However, if you'd rather have the units right now at an increased power usage, we will ship you as many units as required to get you to the hashrate your purchased, if we end up having to scale back any given class of unit to fit within the power envelope of the current board design. If you DONT want the power hungry ones, contact BFL and let them know; they will hold your order until the new ones are ready. They don't have an specific estimate as to when a fix would be rolled out to production units, so if they fix quickly, yes you probably would get a newer one if you ordered today, but if it is difficult to solve, well, then, your SOL. We need more info tbch. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: S M I L Y on March 29, 2013, 04:13:36 PM If I knew the fixed cores would be in within a week then I would hold off.
I have pre orders from July of last year, If I was bumped to the front of the "fixed" line I would wait. If they would be delayed only a week or 2 from the other "broken" chips then I would be ok with that. Hopefully we will get answers really soon! Like before even the first pre-orders ship!!! Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: jedunnigan on March 29, 2013, 04:15:33 PM If I knew the fixed cores would be in within a week then I would hold off. I have pre orders from July of last year, If I was bumped to the front of the "fixed" line I would wait. If they would be delayed only a week or 2 from the other "broken" chips then I would be ok with that. Hopefully we will get answers really soon! Like before even the first pre-orders ship!!! Very good point; depending on the info that is released I may do half-and-half (if that is allowed). Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: vvic on March 29, 2013, 04:22:49 PM "I would probably have to commit seppeku if we were delayed until April." -BFL_Josh No way dude :)https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/632-getting-ready-april.html Josh, you need to restore honor! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Edo_period_Wakizashi.jpg https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158101.msg1676215#msg1676215 Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: hchc on March 29, 2013, 04:39:14 PM well here is another way to look at it:
1. bought 1 single sc, got 2 single sc 2. stuck the biggest water cool heatsink you can find on each 3. overclock it as much as possible back to original spec (might need firmware hack) 4. Profit ?? :) Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: 01BTC10 on March 29, 2013, 05:05:41 PM Ship it to me. :D
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frankie Delaney on March 29, 2013, 05:17:39 PM Quote BFL_Josh: What's causing even more consternation is the fact that the wafer we burned for tests runs at far less power than a second wafer we mounted on the BGA package... so it may be a wafer by wafer thing, and sicne we only have two datapoints, it's hard to nail down the issue. We're rolling the other 4 wafers off the line shortly (they may be done already I think) - and that wil at least give us an idea of the power consumption between wafers with 6 data points. They only have 1 wafer? so only 1000 chips to use so far. so josh gets his 2 minirigs which has turned into 4 minirigs because they've been underclocked to not catch fire, that's 800 chips, gone. that leaves 200 chips to make 25 singles, which now equals 12.5 singles because of the power/heat thing.. That is your 300 units a day, people, the equivalent of 12 singles shipped in april. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Tyger on March 29, 2013, 05:19:38 PM well here is another way to look at it: 1. bought 1 single sc, got 2 single sc 2. stuck the biggest water cool heatsink you can find on each 3. overclock it as much as possible back to original spec (might need firmware hack) 4. Profit ?? :) Lol, the power usage will skyrock and will probably damage the power circuit on the pcb. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: solareclipse64236 on March 29, 2013, 05:21:26 PM its not march 30 yet
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Tamerz on March 29, 2013, 05:22:36 PM Once the finished boards gets back from UL, they'll know exactly where the leak is. There is no way in hell that any of their units are going to leave their factory without UL approval, especially now that they're on record for stating there's a concern. Same true for FCC approval, of which Josh stated back in September he was waiting for the results from them then, expected within a couple weeks. I'm pretty sure they will not have to deal with UL since they are not making the power supplies and will only be dealing with low voltage DC. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: jedunnigan on March 29, 2013, 05:37:28 PM If you ordered today just read Josh's policy: Quote If would would prefer to wait for a unit after we've made some changes to the systems that need a bit of tweaking, we will be happy to put your shipment on hold. However, if you'd rather have the units right now at an increased power usage, we will ship you as many units as required to get you to the hashrate your purchased, if we end up having to scale back any given class of unit to fit within the power envelope of the current board design. If you DONT want the power hungry ones, contact BFL and let them know; they will hold your order until the new ones are ready. They don't have an specific estimate as to when a fix would be rolled out to production units, so if they fix quickly, yes you probably would get a newer one if you ordered today, but if it is difficult to solve, well, then, your SOL. We need more info tbch. "X: josh do we have any idea of if we will reach sept or aus orders in this batch BFL_Josh: In the first 5 wafers? No, I doubt it." http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b8hvt/bfl_josh_updates_on_asic_status_full_transcript/ It implies there are not enough chips and boards to fullfill even last year orders, so called 1st batch. Ordering now means getting into 3rd batch, or 4th? ??? Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: SLok on March 29, 2013, 05:41:42 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it.
If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frankie Delaney on March 29, 2013, 05:44:59 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it. If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. We've learned today that the first batch is 1000 chips. They don't even have the third wafer yet, and the first one was destroyed for nothing. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: creativex on March 29, 2013, 05:48:37 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it. If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. We've learned today that the first batch is 1000 chips. They don't even have the third wafer yet, and the first one was destroyed for nothing. Not for nothing. That decision could very well make Josh's gear more valuable. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: BBQKorv on March 29, 2013, 06:36:47 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it. If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. If you ordered an Audi A6 and got 2x Nissan Micras that wouldn't really cut it. Yea, you would have the same amount of horsepower and topspeed combined but still it's a lesser product. The increased power comsumption makes all the difference when ASICs really flood the market. When difficulty skyrockets all the powersavings promised to you but not delivered could make the difference between profitable mining and not profitable mining. The lifetime earnings of BFL ASIC is also affected by higher power usage. And the delivery dates... If they will ship 2x amount of chips to fill one order those delivery delays will be tremendous. All currently sold Avalons will be shipped before BFL has shipped all units purchased last year. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frankie Delaney on March 29, 2013, 06:47:20 PM I was going to suggest they could just slap single heatsinks into the jalapeno, and ship out a big pile of jalapenos, but if a single chip is using 9-15 watts, and the jalapeno was designed for 4.5 watts, and is powered through USB through 2 USB plugs designed to pull at most 2.5 watts each.
Well the jalapeno won't work at all with the current chips. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: jedunnigan on March 29, 2013, 06:52:52 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it. If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. We've learned today that the first batch is 1000 chips. They don't even have the third wafer yet, and the first one was destroyed for nothing. They are rolling 4 wafers off the line "shortly." They may even be ready now [assuming you take his word for it]. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b8hvt/bfl_josh_updates_on_asic_status_full_transcript/ Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frankie Delaney on March 29, 2013, 07:00:54 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it. If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. We've learned today that the first batch is 1000 chips. They don't even have the third wafer yet, and the first one was destroyed for nothing. They are rolling 4 wafers off the line "shortly." They may even be ready now [assuming you take his word for it]. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b8hvt/bfl_josh_updates_on_asic_status_full_transcript/ Yeah, and now all that's needed is shipping, dicing, shipping, bumping, shipping, packaging, shipping, mounting, shipping, and testing. it only took 3 months last time! Quote from: Josh on march 13 Soon. The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday, the second set about a week or week and a half after that, and the then rest of the chips another week or week and a half after that. That's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1300-when-bulk-first-75-wafers-will-delivered-bfl.html#post18270Caught in a lie. At this point, had they only processed 1 wafer, josh would have known about it and wouldn't have said 5k chips. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Furious on March 29, 2013, 07:12:21 PM April Fool's joke
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: jedunnigan on March 29, 2013, 07:13:45 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it. If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. We've learned today that the first batch is 1000 chips. They don't even have the third wafer yet, and the first one was destroyed for nothing. They are rolling 4 wafers off the line "shortly." They may even be ready now [assuming you take his word for it]. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b8hvt/bfl_josh_updates_on_asic_status_full_transcript/ Yeah, and now all that's needed is shipping, dicing, shipping, bumping, shipping, packaging, shipping, mounting, shipping, and testing. it only took 3 months last time! Quote from: Josh on march 13 Soon. The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday, the second set about a week or week and a half after that, and the then rest of the chips another week or week and a half after that. That's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1300-when-bulk-first-75-wafers-will-delivered-bfl.html#post18270 Caught in a lie. At this point, had they only processed 1 wafer, josh would have known about it and wouldn't have said 5k chips. Just playing devil's advocate here.... but that post you link to does kind of line up with what he said in the chat last night (save for ~2 week delay, which he does say is possibility in your link). Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frankie Delaney on March 29, 2013, 07:21:05 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it. If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. We've learned today that the first batch is 1000 chips. They don't even have the third wafer yet, and the first one was destroyed for nothing. They are rolling 4 wafers off the line "shortly." They may even be ready now [assuming you take his word for it]. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b8hvt/bfl_josh_updates_on_asic_status_full_transcript/ Yeah, and now all that's needed is shipping, dicing, shipping, bumping, shipping, packaging, shipping, mounting, shipping, and testing. it only took 3 months last time! Quote from: Josh on march 13 Soon. The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday, the second set about a week or week and a half after that, and the then rest of the chips another week or week and a half after that. That's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1300-when-bulk-first-75-wafers-will-delivered-bfl.html#post18270 Caught in a lie. At this point, had they only processed 1 wafer, josh would have known about it and wouldn't have said 5k chips. Just playing devil's advocate here.... but that post you link to does kind of line up with what he said in the chat last night (save for ~2 week delay, which he does say is possibility in your link). No it doesn't, not at all. His post suggests 5 wafers were bumped and packaged. The second set of 6 wafers would take another week, and the balance of 75 wafers the week after that. In the chat, we found out 1 wafer was bumped and packaged, they are still waiting on the other 4 wafers out of the first batch, and who knows what's going on with the second batch of 6 wafers. He lied, either then when all along he suggested 5 wafers were being processed, or now when he is saying wafers 3-6 are currently being finished. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: jedunnigan on March 29, 2013, 07:29:39 PM First batch is 5000 chips, first order # for august maybe 3800, starting from 1600. Of course it won't be enough to cover june-23 till july-23 orders, no way an august one will be part of it. If you ordered a big single they might do 2x little singles since the power limit is per board, not per chip. The chips run at full spec without a problem, the problem seems to be with the boards or power regulators. Same for the mini-rig's setup, if they don't find the culprit/a fix soon, they will send 2 mini-rigs, same total number of chips, but double amount of boards, cases, psu. We've learned today that the first batch is 1000 chips. They don't even have the third wafer yet, and the first one was destroyed for nothing. They are rolling 4 wafers off the line "shortly." They may even be ready now [assuming you take his word for it]. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b8hvt/bfl_josh_updates_on_asic_status_full_transcript/ Yeah, and now all that's needed is shipping, dicing, shipping, bumping, shipping, packaging, shipping, mounting, shipping, and testing. it only took 3 months last time! Quote from: Josh on march 13 Soon. The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday, the second set about a week or week and a half after that, and the then rest of the chips another week or week and a half after that. That's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1300-when-bulk-first-75-wafers-will-delivered-bfl.html#post18270 Caught in a lie. At this point, had they only processed 1 wafer, josh would have known about it and wouldn't have said 5k chips. Just playing devil's advocate here.... but that post you link to does kind of line up with what he said in the chat last night (save for ~2 week delay, which he does say is possibility in your link). No it doesn't, not at all. His post suggests 5 wafers were bumped and packaged. The second set of 6 wafers would take another week, and the balance of 75 wafers the week after that. In the chat, we found out 1 wafer was bumped and packaged, they are still waiting on the other 4 wafers out of the first batch, and who knows what's going on with the second batch of 6 wafers. He lied, either then when all along he suggested 5 wafers were being processed, or now when he is saying wafers 3-6 are currently being finished. Let me take one more shot at this correct me if I'm wrong Quote The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday ...Quote hat's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. So in theory they could have been bumped and packaged, but not 100%. I assume they get shipped from Asia, so if he said that two days until arrival they were probably already shipped; so your right. He either lied about the wafers arrival date (earlier than expected) or they hadn't shipped yet and he said they did. Either way iffy. Thnks for the breakdown Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: jjiimm_64 on March 29, 2013, 07:42:10 PM If the power/heat issues still exist with the BitForce Single SC(60GH unit), then BFL will option to ship two They will ship two full SC's that have been downclocked to total 60Gh. all chips will be on each board. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frankie Delaney on March 29, 2013, 07:46:11 PM Let me take one more shot at this correct me if I'm wrong Quote The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday ...Quote hat's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. So in theory they could have been bumped and packaged, but not 100%. I assume they get shipped from Asia, so if he said that two days until arrival they were probably already shipped; so your right. He either lied about the wafers arrival date (earlier than expected) or they hadn't shipped yet and he said they did. Either way iffy. Thnks for the breakdown No, for the last 2 months, josh has been talking as if all 5 wafers out of the first group were processed as one batch, which took 6 weeks to go from wafer to chips. He then suggested the second group of 6 wafers would ship 1-1.5 weeks after that. The chat log last night now shows that 1 wafer was processed in that 6 weeks, and they are now finishing the remaining 4 wafers out of batch 1, with the 6 wafers from batch 2 nowhere in sight, and possibly delayed by a needed chip revision. What this suggest to me is that they didn't actually order their chips when they said they did, and that what they recieved from the packaging facility was actually their engineering samples. To compound things, josh has constantly shit on avalon for only shipping 300 units, saying BFL can ship 300 per day, today we learn BFL only has at most 1000 finished chips which can't even produce 300 units, unless 200 of them are jalapenos which due to the power usage of the current chips, will only be able to hash at 1-2 mh/s Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: johnyj on March 29, 2013, 07:52:57 PM 5000X8=40TH, that's all added hash power if all of the first set of 6 wafers delivered
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: dani on March 29, 2013, 07:55:02 PM I don't check on BFL stuff on a regular basis, but I know those cowboys have some chips for a couple of days etc. What do you guys think are the chances to get anything within the next two months, when ordering today?
Im curious, I would even think about a jalapeno, just for the luls. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: creativex on March 29, 2013, 07:59:13 PM I don't check on BFL stuff on a regular basis, but I know those cowboys have some chips for a couple of days etc. What do you guys think are the chances to get anything within the next two months, when ordering today? Im curious, I would even think about a jalapeno, just for the luls. The chances are clearly zero. By their own admissions have one wafer of inconsistently performing chips after all these months. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: johnyj on March 29, 2013, 08:01:31 PM They will do a chip classification: Higher power consumption chips go into jalapeno and mini single, lower ones go into full single, so the load on PCB will be contained
Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frankie Delaney on March 29, 2013, 08:06:18 PM They will do a chip classification: Higher power consumption chips go into jalapeno and mini single, lower ones go into full single, so the load on PCB will be contained But the jalapeno is powered by 2 USB plugs. at 2.5 watts each, that's 5 watts. If the worst chips are 3 times the target power usage, that would mean a 4.5GH/s jalapeno would need 13.5 watts, or need to be underclocked to well under 2GH/s Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: jedunnigan on March 29, 2013, 08:10:09 PM Let me take one more shot at this correct me if I'm wrong Quote The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday ...Quote hat's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. So in theory they could have been bumped and packaged, but not 100%. I assume they get shipped from Asia, so if he said that two days until arrival they were probably already shipped; so your right. He either lied about the wafers arrival date (earlier than expected) or they hadn't shipped yet and he said they did. Either way iffy. Thnks for the breakdown No, for the last 2 months, josh has been talking as if all 5 wafers out of the first group were processed as one batch, which took 6 weeks to go from wafer to chips. He then suggested the second group of 6 wafers would ship 1-1.5 weeks after that. The chat log last night now shows that 1 wafer was processed in that 6 weeks, and they are now finishing the remaining 4 wafers out of batch 1, with the 6 wafers from batch 2 nowhere in sight, and possibly delayed by a needed chip revision. What this suggest to me is that they didn't actually order their chips when they said they did, and that what they recieved from the packaging facility was actually their engineering samples. To compound things, josh has constantly shit on avalon for only shipping 300 units, saying BFL can ship 300 per day, today we learn BFL only has at most 1000 finished chips which can't even produce 300 units, unless 200 of them are jalapenos which due to the power usage of the current chips, will only be able to hash at 1-2 mh/s I don't check on BFL stuff on a regular basis, but I know those cowboys have some chips for a couple of days etc. What do you guys think are the chances to get anything within the next two months, when ordering today? Im curious, I would even think about a jalapeno, just for the luls. The chances are clearly zero. By their own admissions have one wafer of inconsistently performing chips after all these months. Very troubling. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: dani on March 29, 2013, 08:14:33 PM I don't check on BFL stuff on a regular basis, but I know those cowboys have some chips for a couple of days etc. What do you guys think are the chances to get anything within the next two months, when ordering today? Im curious, I would even think about a jalapeno, just for the luls. The chances are clearly zero. By their own admissions have one wafer of inconsistently performing chips after all these months. Why are chances zero? I don't know, if they want to ship within 2 weeks (and I don't think thats gonna happen, even if they are close to final (*IF*)), they should ship anytime soon. You think because they don't have good chips by now they wont be able to ship in like 2 months? Hm, not sure about that. Btw no trolling intended Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Frankie Delaney on March 29, 2013, 08:18:11 PM I don't check on BFL stuff on a regular basis, but I know those cowboys have some chips for a couple of days etc. What do you guys think are the chances to get anything within the next two months, when ordering today? Im curious, I would even think about a jalapeno, just for the luls. The chances are clearly zero. By their own admissions have one wafer of inconsistently performing chips after all these months. Why are chances zero? I don't know, if they want to ship within 2 weeks (and I don't think thats gonna happen, even if they are close to final (*IF*)), they should ship anytime soon. You think because they don't have good chips by now they wont be able to ship in like 2 months? Hm, not sure about that. Btw no trolling intended They have a massive backlog of orders. ordering now would put you at the end of the list, with delivery still more than 2 months out. so even if they do have good chips in 2 months, they would be going to orders placed in september or october, not april. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: creativex on March 29, 2013, 08:25:34 PM I don't check on BFL stuff on a regular basis, but I know those cowboys have some chips for a couple of days etc. What do you guys think are the chances to get anything within the next two months, when ordering today? Im curious, I would even think about a jalapeno, just for the luls. The chances are clearly zero. By their own admissions have one wafer of inconsistently performing chips after all these months. Why are chances zero? I don't know, if they want to ship within 2 weeks (and I don't think thats gonna happen, even if they are close to final (*IF*)), they should ship anytime soon. You think because they don't have good chips by now they wont be able to ship in like 2 months? Hm, not sure about that. Btw no trolling intended They cannot ship what they do not have. Even if they commenced shipping on Monday(not a chance), they could only fill a tiny number of orders with the few chips they have on hand. Then they'd have to wait for the fab to finish their few remaining first batch wafers, which would still need to be bumped and packaged. Although BFL is vague about how many orders they have, I doubt even their larger 3rd batch of chips would cover an order placed today. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: NEO2012 on March 29, 2013, 08:28:05 PM Let me take one more shot at this correct me if I'm wrong Quote The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday ...Quote hat's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. So in theory they could have been bumped and packaged, but not 100%. I assume they get shipped from Asia, so if he said that two days until arrival they were probably already shipped; so your right. He either lied about the wafers arrival date (earlier than expected) or they hadn't shipped yet and he said they did. Either way iffy. Thnks for the breakdown No, for the last 2 months, josh has been talking as if all 5 wafers out of the first group were processed as one batch, which took 6 weeks to go from wafer to chips. He then suggested the second group of 6 wafers would ship 1-1.5 weeks after that. The chat log last night now shows that 1 wafer was processed in that 6 weeks, and they are now finishing the remaining 4 wafers out of batch 1, with the 6 wafers from batch 2 nowhere in sight, and possibly delayed by a needed chip revision. What this suggest to me is that they didn't actually order their chips when they said they did, and that what they recieved from the packaging facility was actually their engineering samples. To compound things, josh has constantly shit on avalon for only shipping 300 units, saying BFL can ship 300 per day, today we learn BFL only has at most 1000 finished chips which can't even produce 300 units, unless 200 of them are jalapenos which due to the power usage of the current chips, will only be able to hash at 1-2 mh/s I don't check on BFL stuff on a regular basis, but I know those cowboys have some chips for a couple of days etc. What do you guys think are the chances to get anything within the next two months, when ordering today? Im curious, I would even think about a jalapeno, just for the luls. The chances are clearly zero. By their own admissions have one wafer of inconsistently performing chips after all these months. Very troubling. LIKE USUALLY SLIMMY ASS SNAKE JOSH DIDNT MAKE IT CLEAR NOT ONLY THEY CONSUME DUBLE POWER THEY CONSUME DUBLE POWER AT HALF THE SPEED SO THEY WILL HAVE TO SEND U 3 JELLYS TO GET 4,5 EACH DRAWING 5W IF U ORDERD SC SINGLE 60GH U WILL GET AT LEAST 2 IF NOT 3 EACH DRAWING UP TO 200 W AKA 500-600 LIKE A AVALON Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Miner99er on March 29, 2013, 09:21:54 PM Let me take one more shot at this correct me if I'm wrong Quote The first 5k chips will be arriving at the assembly house on Thursday ...Quote hat's the current timeline, and as usual, subject to change. So in theory they could have been bumped and packaged, but not 100%. I assume they get shipped from Asia, so if he said that two days until arrival they were probably already shipped; so your right. He either lied about the wafers arrival date (earlier than expected) or they hadn't shipped yet and he said they did. Either way iffy. Thnks for the breakdown No, for the last 2 months, josh has been talking as if all 5 wafers out of the first group were processed as one batch, which took 6 weeks to go from wafer to chips. He then suggested the second group of 6 wafers would ship 1-1.5 weeks after that. The chat log last night now shows that 1 wafer was processed in that 6 weeks, and they are now finishing the remaining 4 wafers out of batch 1, with the 6 wafers from batch 2 nowhere in sight, and possibly delayed by a needed chip revision. What this suggest to me is that they didn't actually order their chips when they said they did, and that what they recieved from the packaging facility was actually their engineering samples. To compound things, josh has constantly shit on avalon for only shipping 300 units, saying BFL can ship 300 per day, today we learn BFL only has at most 1000 finished chips which can't even produce 300 units, unless 200 of them are jalapenos which due to the power usage of the current chips, will only be able to hash at 1-2 mh/s I don't check on BFL stuff on a regular basis, but I know those cowboys have some chips for a couple of days etc. What do you guys think are the chances to get anything within the next two months, when ordering today? Im curious, I would even think about a jalapeno, just for the luls. The chances are clearly zero. By their own admissions have one wafer of inconsistently performing chips after all these months. Very troubling. LIKE USUALLY SLIMMY ASS SNAKE JOSH DIDNT MAKE IT CLEAR NOT ONLY THEY CONSUME DUBLE POWER THEY CONSUME DUBLE POWER AT HALF THE SPEED SO THEY WILL HAVE TO SEND U 3 JELLYS TO GET 4,5 EACH DRAWING 5W IF U ORDERD SC SINGLE 60GH U WILL GET AT LEAST 2 IF NOT 3 EACH DRAWING UP TO 200 W AKA 500-600 LIKE A AVALON Yo dawg, caps lock is cruise control for cool bro. Anyway, at full speed they're pulling 193w. They're working to pull that number down to 120w or less. That's what i get from the transcript. No 3 time the power at half the speed... calm yourself down turbo. If they can get a Single down to 120w then 30Gh will be 60w and the jalapeno will unfortunately only do 2.5w each.. with increasing speed and ROI the better they can pull the power envelope down. If they send you two Jalapenos well, then you're ahead of the game anyway. SOMEONE will pull one apart and figure out how to overclock that thing, USB power be damned, we're get it some juice. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: Tehfiend on March 29, 2013, 09:29:55 PM Josh just posted another update here (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html):
Quote I want to clarify the above post, as there is some potential confusion. We are not shipping yet. We plan on shipping possibly by the end of next week, but I will update on a shipping schedule as soon as I have more definitive information with regards to that. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: creativex on March 29, 2013, 09:35:51 PM Josh just posted another update here (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html): Quote I want to clarify the above post, as there is some potential confusion. We are not shipping yet. We plan on shipping possibly by the end of next week, but I will update on a shipping schedule as soon as I have more definitive information with regards to that. IOW...just two moar weeks! Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: NEO2012 on March 29, 2013, 09:38:03 PM Just relaying what I saw in the chat. You can check the BFL chat archives for yourself. The units are working, but the last issue is fixing the power drain. Some units are using more than 2x as much power than necessary and they think they know how to fix it very soon. They have to fix the drain issue, because despite the power consumption still being low, it's causing heat issues. If the power/heat issues still exist with the BitForce Single SC(60GH unit), then BFL will option to ship two Little Single SC(30GH units) in its place until the problem is resolved. Once this is fixed, units are expected to ship. The rough projection is 2 weeks. In an absolute perfect world, units might ship next week. They can build about 400 units a day. If you're an early pre-order, and have a FPGA unit getting traded up, check the site to find out when. Take the news or leave it. I'm not a BFL apologist, but I was curious. what power drain dude? did u looked at taht board? whats draining thats josh bfl bulshit aka introducing the idea there crap eats as much power as avalaon with heatsink and fan not designed for it josh is jsut the company snake who hises crap Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: The-Real-Link on March 30, 2013, 08:38:45 AM Neo, did you see the video? It's right there. Some part of the circuitry is drawing more power than it should be.
I wonder for a Jalapeno if they'll be including a wall adapter if the power goes signficantly over spec. That or downclock them and give you two. Otherwise from the extended reddit post and latest updates what was posted about the power draw seemed right If you do NOT contact BFL, you'll receive your unit with higher power draw and slower speeds but of course more physical units to equal the hashing power you purchased. If you explicitly contact them to delay your order, your unit is withheld to be shipped once the power issues are figured out. From Grnbrg's Twitter: https://twitter.com/BFL_News http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4bgho5JSI Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: mezzomix on March 30, 2013, 10:24:08 PM All the bad news sounds like their current wafer run is not able to run the planed mining products. I think we should be prepared that BFL will need a redesign and new masks. That will be another 8-12 weeks until we see the fixed silicon - best case if they are fast. With testing I expect another 4-6 months if everything works perfect.
Refund requested a few weeks ago - no response from BFL yet. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: witherworth on March 30, 2013, 10:49:07 PM All the bad news sounds like their current wafer run is not able to run the planed mining products. I think we should be prepared that BFL will need a redesign and new masks. That will be another 8-12 weeks until we see the fixed silicon - best case if they are fast. With testing I expect another 4-6 months if everything works perfect. Refund requested a few weeks ago - no response from BFL yet. From what I read, I thought the chips were fine, and it was their PCB that needs to be redesigned and fixed. Supposedly a new one has already been designed and completed, but I doubt that much. However, they should be doinmore tests over the next week or 2, and should hopefully fix a few things. Till then, MOAR FPGAs! Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: dogie on March 31, 2013, 05:10:05 AM well here is another way to look at it: 1. bought 1 single sc, got 2 single sc 2. stuck the biggest water cool heatsink you can find on each 3. overclock it as much as possible back to original spec (might need firmware hack) 4. Profit ?? :) Think of what you just said in computer terms. Motherboard power delivery maxes at 200W, and it gets hot. IF WE CAN STOP IT GETTING HOT THEN WE CAN MAKE IT DO 400W. No :/ Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: mezzomix on March 31, 2013, 09:44:05 AM From what I read, I thought the chips were fine, and it was their PCB that needs to be redesigned and fixed. Supposedly a new one has already been designed and completed, but I doubt that much. However, they should be doinmore tests over the next week or 2, and should hopefully fix a few things. Till then, MOAR FPGAs! Even if the ASICs would work in a 24/7 setup, a PCB which is able to handle that kind of thermal power is not trivial. I think with the currently demonstrated power consumption the silicon is not stable in a 24/7 setup. They could throw away the PCB, the cases and the heat sinks and create a completely new product with those ASICs at a much lower clock. If you look back what it took them to create the simple PCB and the boxes, I would not expect a product in the next few months in this case. Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: ooeygooeygold on April 25, 2013, 07:46:03 AM All the bad news sounds like their current wafer run is not able to run the planed mining products. I think we should be prepared that BFL will need a redesign and new masks. That will be another 8-12 weeks until we see the fixed silicon - best case if they are fast. With testing I expect another 4-6 months if everything works perfect. Refund requested a few weeks ago - no response from BFL yet. any update about this? Title: Re: March 30th BFL ASIC update Post by: mezzomix on April 25, 2013, 07:55:24 AM Yes - I received a mail that my order is in the new order system and I could login to find a request expedited shipping button. When I login I see that my order already indicates express shipping but no button.
Nothing about my refund request so I think they just ignored it. Doesn't matter - with the current BTC price I don't want a BTC refund at the moment. |
