Bitcoin Forum

This topic is for the mods. I woke up this morning to find a negative trust on my account that shows up in the Altcoin section when I have NEVER

1. Done any trade on this forum
2. Borrowed money from anyone
3. Asked anybody to do anything for me
4. Asked anything from anybody

I mean what did I do to deserve a negative trust?

Who did I try to scam? Check my posts. This is amazing!

And I am enrolled in a signature campaign. I could get banned for something that is not my fault.

I mean what exactly did I do???? ???

Spamming. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1663854.msg16835950#msg16835950

Consecutive one liners, recycled post and not even contributing to the forum. You are also in a list of farmed account.
You are in a sig campaign that don't check post quality that often and you decide to abuse it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=812240;sa=showPosts

Are you a mod?
Because having a farmed account is not illegal on the forum.
Writing one-liners that make sense is not illegal either.
And what is your definition of "Recycled Post"? Because I did not recycle my post or anyone else's

It is not wrong to insert a quote either.


And whoever said you will get a negative trust for "Spamming"?

If I were actually spamming then my posts will get deleted - which is not the case here.

Have a hard time with giving people flack over short responses because I know some people in real life that you would never know could barely read and write due to learning disabilities and the internet can be a cruel world for them at times. I also understand that there is a large segment that are practicing English or do not have a great grasp on the language.
So I was interested to see who was crusading against members in this way and was shocked to see it was a mod. So I paused and thought there must be more to the issue and I looked at Dasiy14s post history. The red flag for me was not the short responses but the time stamps on the responses! You seem to be jumping post to post making these one line responses within a minute repeatedly. That is not a normal state of operation for people that are reading a whole thread or just reading and responding for interest,it established a clear pattern.

Wearing a signature puts a little more pressure on the member to provide a more well thought out response. So when you put that on you should be aware that you will be needing to improve quality of posts. Improve the quality and see if Lauda is open to changing the trust in the future,trust is just a suggestion. Really just effects signature endorsement and not much else,especially since you are not transacting in any other way.

Just my two cents,nothing personal in my response. Trust is a touchy subject and I think a neutral trust rating would have worked just fine for driving a agenda to clean up the forum.
But I also have not chewed through the issue as much as the mods here.

because your post is obviously just for signature earnings.The interval of your response and a one liner post is the sign of abuse and spam of this forum, The mods has the right to put red trust for that kind of behavior because that attitude is harmful for the community. I reviewed too your post history and it is accurate on what lauda said on his feedback.


I agree that farm accounts are wrong but if that farmed account is sold to a new owner with good skills and have a incredible knowledge about crypto. I think it will become worth it,  because not all expert crypto user already know this forum, and once they newly discover this forum, they want to bought high rank account so that their knowledge that they are going to share is valuable because newbie post in this forum is always ignored even if it has sense. I observed this many times and their is inequality about rankings here, Higher ranks bully lower rank that's why many people tempted to buy account.


But i extremely disagree for those farm accounts that is holding by only one user and joined it for signature campaign for earning, They are the accounts that committing spam on this forum. I hope theymos resolved this issue because this is getting bigger and bigger.

Spamming is when you write posts that are off-topic.

Can you identify which post of mine is off-topic?

Just because I post fast does not mean I am spamming...

When did fast posting = Spam?

I only make 10 posts/day about thrice a week, making about 30 posts/week - is it spam just because I type fast?



I HAVE NEVER AT ANY TIME ASKED FOR ANYTHING FROM ANYBODY ON THIS FORUM, why should I be labeled a scammer?

Yes, but its not limited to off-topic posts.


When the quality degrades.


So you log in every few days and read the backlog of the threads you posted in within a minute? Its a discussion(!) board. You do not engage in discussions, you post in threads where you can get away with posting your opinion in a sentence or two without giving it any weight. Interestingly it took you longer to post here, probably because you actually want to discuss something now.


Lauda believes that its a way to clean up the forum. You will very likely lose your position in the signature campaign because of this which removes your incentive to spam in the first place. If this is the way you like to post, the rating should not affect you otherwise. Its clearly worded so it should not interfere with any trades either.

I personally would rather go for your campaigner instead. Shut down the entire campaign with negative ratings, if they are unable to handle spammers. Its their job.

You are not labelled as a scammer - you are labelled as untrustworthy by Lauda.  You don't need to interact with someone to not trust them.

People will read the feedback and decide if it is relevant to them or not. 

Change the way you post and in a month come back and ask nicely to have the feedback removed.   :)

I mostly post in the Altcoin section where people talk about their favorite coins. How can you say my post is low-quality just because I am give my opinion in a sentence?

No, I was waiting to read people's responses.


I open more than three windows on my browser, go to my favorite sections (which is altcoins) and chat with people.
What is wrong with that? ???


What did I do to be labelled as "Untrustworthy"?
Do people become "Untrustworthy" for posting fast??? ??? ???



I don't think it's right to give negative trusts to people who did not do anything wrong to anybody.

Why do you think people care about your opinion if you dont give any reasons for it? How is that a discussion with worth to anyone?


I implied that you dont in the other threads. You claim you post in quick succession because you type fast. That might be true and I cant argue that. I argue that you dont take the time to read.


You can think about it what you wont, trust is not moderated. You have to iron this out with Lauda. Maybe you shouldnt expect to get paid if you just want to chat. See the post by Milkduds above, if you are wearing a paid signature its more likely that anyone[1] will think you post for the few satoshi when they see posts in quick succession.

I suggest you follow Vods advice, take off the signature as well and Im sure the rating is gone in a month. If not, let me know, Ill talk to Lauda if needed.

[1] staff, regular user or admin

If the problem is with the user spamming, the right approach would be to get a temp ban in place.
Negative trust just seems wrong.

I think a temp ban would be better indeed, but from what Im told its difficult to reach staff members that can issue one.

Then the admins should have a discussion about delegating this power to a few of the others as well.
Perhaps global moderators can be given the power to issue temp bans as well.

From your post history it looks to be clearly signature post spam. Not spammy spam, but posts clearly made to increase earnings from a signature campaign.

Getting negative trust for doing it is pretty stupid and whoever Laura is they need to rethink their situation. A more suitable warning for others would be a neutral letting future campaign managers know that the user in question wouldn't be good for their campaign.

I personally don't see your negative trust on the forum itself as I have removed Default Trust from my trust list as the majority of them are full of shit.

Lauda is staff. I dont think a neutral rating would do anything. The user wouldnt have noticed and the next campaign might be years away, in the mean time the spam continues and nothing has changed. Its like you are suggesting to do nothing.


Yes, and maybe there is need for more active people in higher mod positions in order to handle the spam in general better.

If you were a genuine user, I'd expect you to know the difference between:
1) Forum rules.
2) Forum etiquette/trust system.
The forum rules do not determine for what reasons negative trust ratings should be left. If you break the forum rules, you get banned not left with negative ratings (usually). If you knew this, you would have known that the right place for this thread was Reputation and not Meta.

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It's my fault that you're shit posting, right?  ::)

Not necessarily. Spamming or account farming/trading is shady in its own regard, and in almost all of the situations detrimental to the forum. I do not trust any user that engages in such dealings.

Only two moderators are able to temp. ban IIRC, and 1 isn't even active anymore. As it currently stands, there are only two (active) people that can ban people.

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Correct. Some users that admitted that it's their fault and asked nicely for a second chance already had their ratings converted into neutral (for later evaluation) in the same day. The other cases that I've encountered are :
1) Avoiding guilt -> like in OP's case.
2) Attacking me.

Please elaborate more on when a post is considered "SPAM"
Is it when it is in fast successions or when it is off-topic?

Because if you read the threads where I posted, I did not discuss anything that is not in line with the topic...
So why are you discussing a ban?

Not that anything will happen if I stop visiting bitcointalk.org
I will simply move on with my life... life goes on.


And since I have done no harm to anyone, my conscience is clear. 

Moved my post with examples of shit posting from other thread here:

Useless post with zero meaning considering the OP, content and the discussion being lead in that thread.

Nerco-bumped a thread with an useless post.

::)

Just because you do not agree with what I wrote does not mean it's not in line with the topic.



I am not attacking you, whatever happened to freedom of speech?

You ask us to define spam -> I give you examples of spam and now you deny them? If you're going to use such reasoning, then responding here is a waste of my (and anyone else's) time.

I have not claimed that. Read my post again:

Anyway, do have a nice day.

I have some things I will like to attend to at the moment.

A good signature campaign manager will do their job and inspect every account applying for their campaign. If by 'doing nothing' you are referring to campaign managers doing nothing to ensure they are committed to the job they were hired for then sure. It shouldn't be difficult to click on someones trust and read a neutral feedback. That is if the campaign manager isn't just a lazy scammer suckering people in with lies and false security.

As for Laura being staff, is there a point in this being mentioned? I really couldn't care if she was the pope. I said what I said for a reason, someones position in a forum isn't going to change my view.

"Daisy14" account - your situation.

You are part of "at least" 4 accounts,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=812240  Daisy14 (158)     mar 28x2,     apr 1x3,  5, 7, 9,     14, 16, 18x2, 19x2, 20x2,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=812245  Dank14 (143)      mar 28x2,     apr 1x2,  5, 7, 9x2, 14, 16, 18x2, 19x2, 20x3,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=812251  Das (340)            mar 28x2,     apr 1,     5, 7, 9,     14, 16, 18,     19x2, 20x5,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=812256  Dinki (136)          mar 28x2,     apr 1x2,  5, 7, 9,     14, 16, 18x2, 19x2, 20x4,

I did not publish your first post dates before, but as we can see all 4 accounts have near identical history's.
Are they all yours, or will you claim you "only" bought the Daisy14 account?

The post history's of "the Daisy four" accounts is clearly different from other group's of accounts "farmed" in march 2016.
Other groups of accounts (so far) listed farmed in March 2015 are clearly all connected on the same post rota - mar 25,  apr 18, 27,  may10, 12,  jun 10,  jul 4,  
Your "Daisy four" are not connected to the dominant farmer in this "post history" way.
See - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1670807.0

You are however connected to a multitude of other "farmed" accounts on the "Re: Known alts of anyone: User generated"
See this page - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1206112.msg16413465#msg16413465


"Daisy14" account - your posts.

Clearly, your systemic early posting was for 1 purpose - ranking up.
Every post you made for "Daisy14" you make posts for other accounts too.
So every post "daisy14" makes is x by how many accounts?

Your "Daist14" posts (that led to this discussion) are consistently moments apart.
You are not (previously) "chatting" as claimed, you are flying from thread to thread, 1 post and gone.
"chatting" implies continued response/debate. (please do not start "chatting" with your other accounts)

It is hard to identify spam on an individual post basis.
But look at the bigger picture and things become clearer.

------

It takes time, effort and research to make a post such as this, and i think it shows you are not as "innocent" as you make out.
Therefore, i will not be taking part in a tit for tat about weather you are spamming or not.
To me it is about value of post, of which farmed accounts have none, regardless of post "quality"

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edited to clarify "Daisy four" and "other groups of farmed accounts"

Which takes time.


But the lazy ones get the job, because they are cheaper. They can afford to be cheaper because they have to invest less time. The majority of campaigns with spammer problems are those where the manager is hard to reach or is barely active here.


Yes, I answered "whoever Laura is"


Staff usually does not have to change someones view, they enforce the view of the admin how certain situations are to be handled. In this case however Lauda is unable to, because they are not given to powers needed to ban spammers. The trust rating is a crutch.

---

good job.

They give this guy a negative DT rating but don't bother with confronting the lazy campaign manager that is enabling this spam to go on. That doesn't make sense to me. It reminds me of the police going after drug users and not the ones dealing the drugs.

Clearly the OP thought it was okay as he was still being accepted in the campaign for his posts and why not? If you are doing something for a while and nothing out of the ordinary is mentioned why would you stop?

But, the thing that tops it all off and is the real reason I came to this thread. Laura is Staff, everyone knows this, and she gave him negative trust for spamming. This is her decision and it was made.

The problem here is if she felt he was spamming so badly that he deserves a negative rating then why didn't she delete his spam? It can't be as bad as she is saying, 'severe spam', if it is still there. That seems like common sense to me, how did she miss the exact reason she negged him?

In addition as I am curious, did this user receive any sort of warning beforehand about his behavior? I've been found guilty of spam myself but staff didn't come at me with negative trust they simply deleted the posts they considered spam from different threads.

Granted the posts they deleted were not spam, they were simply notices posted on different coins ANN threads letting them know that their coin was added to my database website and to let me know if stuff needed updated. It is essentially the same thing except over 100 of my posts were deleted during this time. Nothing was said to me, I said nothing. I understood from that point on that it isn't allowed on the forum.

Now that I think of it, this has happened to me twice. The HYPER dev had asked me to post copies of my announcements in his thread whenever I made them and a mod went through the entire thread almost and deleted those posts.

False assumption. I've been contacting several managers and campaigns regarding this issues. Some of us are also working on another method of combating spam.

I can't delete it. Even if I could, it would have little effect. It is pretty impossible to clean up after every spammer.

No. This isn't an action from a staff member, but rather a member of the default trust system. Those are not necessarily connected.

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P.S. Look at the findings from rizzarolla.

Again, I dont agree with this method either and talked to Lauda directly about that as well. I prefer going after the managers and its what I and others will do in the future.


Did you miss the post by rizzlarolla? I think the OP tried to make it look like this, but does know very well whats wrong.


Lauda cant, as I said earlier they are lacking the required powers. Lauda is also a person high enough on the default trust network to matter. Thus this alternative approach. Id prefer this was not needed, but this requires action by one of the admins.


The normal warning for spam is a 7 day ban.

I do not quite understand what you mean by that sentence.
What exactly is wrong in chatting with people when nobody ever complained that I asked for anything?



I had to move from thread to thread because when you are in a signature campaign, you try to cover as many sections as you possibly can and you can't tell me it's wrong to do so.

I got this quote from Meta.
Topic: Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ



I have not broken the rule on this forum by having multiple accounts. MPREP who is ALSO A STAFF has made this absolutely clear in Meta.

I did not buy the account since any mod can verify the password has never changed.

So why is Lauda picking this up?


Attacking someone for multiple accounts is AGAINST the official rules of this forum as stated by MPREP himself, please remove the negative trusts. I did not try to scam anyone.

The novel begins,


Forcing campaign managers to not help promote spam would be the best place to start. Nip the problem in the bud and a lot of spam will go away. If a campaign manager refuses to abide by the forum rules then giving them negative trust would be well deserved, a good start, and would serve as a reminder to other managers to follow the rules set forth by the forum regardless of how little they agree to get paid for the job.

I'm sure you are aware of users wanting the signature campaigns gone because of the spam reason but something like the above, in my opinion, would help legitimize signature campaigns, make users happier, and create less work for the mods and staff later on.


As staff they should allow you to be able to do these basic things at least.


Yes, I mentioned part of this in my first post. His entire post history is blatantly spam from the moment he created that account.


After reading through more of his posts I actually agree now with the negative trust he received due to him doing this in the past, getting banned, and then bragging about it on this new spam account.



I didn't miss it no, the first thing I posted in this thread was about his post history just being spam. That was more in reference to nothing being done to him so he just keeps on doing it. Once you notice that all of his post history is just spam preparing for signature campaigns and spam continuing once he was accepted it is easy to determine that he has more than one account used for this purpose and is a repeat offender.

I'm just a lazy person really so I didn't bother actually looking for them. That and I haven't had any sleep and it is now 1:30 pm for me lol.


This is something they should consider changing.



Yes and he has received this warning at least once on another account that I saw in my search of his posts.


You are a blatant account farmer with the sole purpose of spamming this forum for signature campaigns. Though your posts don't immediately look like spam normal people don't just post once in every topic and leave it at that. That isn't 'chatting' that is clearly posting as many times as you can for a campaign which is spam.

What is happening in this thread is how a discussion normally takes place. If you compare it to your post history it should be stick out pretty well. This isn't how people chat.

You understand full well what you are doing.

Get some sleep! The forum will still be here tomorrow.


I agree. Either lower ranked mods need more power or there need to be more higher ranked mods/admins. I can understand if admins are preoccupied with more important things than spam, but it hurts the forum. IIRC the new forum will be more efficient for the staff to handle things, but at the pace its going we cant wait that long.

Since when was negative feedback based on the rules of the forum? Just because Lauda put negative feedback on your profile doesn't mean that you directly broke a forum rule. Their negative had nothing to do with the forum rules, and if you in fact did break a rule, then you would be banned. These past statements only apply to your response about multiple accounts.

However, you have been spamming. That is both frowned upon and a bannable offence.


These are the first two rules mprep stated. How come in your posts prior to this thread, you only used one line to reply to those threads, which were absolutely worthless?

Examples:



This is reply #21 and has little to do with even answering the original question.


Was that a necessary post?

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And please tell me how you're able to post 4 posts within 4 minutes and keep them constructive. (That's a rate of one per minute! You still have to find the post, then think about what to reply!)

Example 1: Archive (https://archive.is/RLUme#selection-1465.1-1704.2)
Example 2: Archive (https://archive.is/RLUme#selection-1185.1-1424.2)

OP, what you have to understand is that the standards for quality of posting here are extremely high.  What you've been doing isn't spamming per say, but shitposting.  That's frowned upon everywhere, but on this forum--and especially when you're in a signature campaign--it's an infraction.  It can get you banned from campaigns, red trust, you name it.

You've seen forms, I'm sure, where most of the posts are +1's, "agree", LOL, emoticons, etc. etc.  Most of the page on any given thread is taken up by users' signatures.  It's bullshit.  Here we don't have that, and it's a good thing. 

Take the advice above:  1) Read threads, and 2) Don't shitpost, and 3) Ask Lauda to remove the rating in a few months.

+1
Isn't
Trust System:Forum Rules (on btctalk)
similar to
Religion:Government (in america)?