Bitcoin Forum

As I have seen on many other markets, greed is the driving factor behind every bubble.
When will some people here see that it's their greed telling them that BTC will hit $1K by next week/month/year?

BTC is different from other markets in many ways, but it IS after all a MARKET- buy and sell.
I think that after greed and burst bubbles, comes the fundamentals and the real development of BTC. Does anyone agree with me?

Tough call, from even the slightest conventional point of view.

The bitcoin market is a market like any other - yes.

But bitcoin itself is a new thing.

I think nobody knows.  We're flying on guts here - you got 'em or you don't...

We don't know what the price of bitcoin is going to be, so how come you think the current price is greed?

Its like the price of any other commodity - the price is what the market decides it is - its just because we don't have historical data that everyone is in shock at the current price!

It's new- yes.
It's got future- I couldn't agree more.
But some people should stop being greedy and look at how BTC can benefit them and the people around them in the long run. That way we'll get a stable currency and escape from the grips of government and greedy bankers.

Agreed.

Yeah.  What if some new element were discovered on Mars - something prettier than gold, more useful than silver, and ten times more dangerous than uranium?  What would a brand new market in that element look like?

The Cyprus deal has really changed the game here in a big way. Normally I would agree that the bubble has to burst eventually, but this is a very unique situation.

It's no longer just a matter of cashing out and becoming rich. You are not rich unless you are in control of the wealth and have a say over whether or not it gets taken from you. I would be hesitant about storing anything over $100k in a bank account with everything the way it is. Currently, it is a wonder whether it would actually more safe to keep your wealth in bitcoin and ride out the inevitable crash and recovery rather than put it in a bank and risk losing it.

Define greed. Is holding your BTC because you believe it has much more potential greed? I call cashing out an action of greed, where you want to take your fiat money afraid that bitcoin will lose value. That's the true greed.

Well here it's a question of psychology- the terminal stages of a bubble are driven wholly by greed and unreal expectations. I myself have in the past made some really questionable investments in stocks in the last possible moment and regretted that I didn't get to know what I'm doing before I do it. I see many people in this position here today- they have great expectations, but as this market is driven by a finite supply of fiat which will eventually dry up- it's more than obvious that prices will fall. Some day they will shoot up again and so on...

Greed is buying and selling speculatively, waiting for the price to go further. And since more of the traders are doing it with this in mind, it goes up. When their cash dries out, what do we do?

We sheit our pants

Aww, I'm not greedy.  I just want enough money to live off of for the rest of my life, that's all.

I hear this magical number is supposed to be around a million.  ONE MILLION DOLLARS HERE I COME YEEHAW

Same as what the greeks wanted. Now they be working and sheit  ;D ;D ;D

ill second that

Spend them on goods and services!

Greeks didn't have Bitcoin ;)

Yeah, they had Goldman Sachs to help them  8)

That's exactly my point. But it can only happen in a stable market.

Nah, we're spending them now.

Normally, I would have to agree. It's definitely greed (or let's say belief in making a good investment decision) that people do say that BTC will surely hit $1,000 and preferably as soon as possible. But in the case of bitcoin, this really can happen independently from what people say or not. And I believe there are some people that do say it purely because of fundamentals+intuition (and intuition, even though is highly irrational, is proven to be very important for every successful investor).

So normally, I would have to agree, but in bitcoin discussion, imho it has no sense to point it out really.

You mark my words, greed, for lack of a better word, is good.

This whole thing could be setting the stage of establishing a safe and average value of BTC. Once that is established (predictably anyway). I think trade will become more prominent.... in satoshi's anyway.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Bitcoin will surely hit that price, even much higher. But that will happen gradually and with time, not tomorrow.

you know, just because other people were bearish and the price went up, doesnt mean you have to pretend to be bearish and then secretly hope it goes up too

I don't hold BTC, I have investments in other places. I want to see BTC become something stable before I buy into it. I'm not bearish, I am a realist.

There have been no other investment even remotely close to bitcoin in the last four years. So I guess that makes you a bad investor, sorry

Forget greed. If anyone was lucky enough to get rich quick off of bitcoin holdings, good for them.

Think positively. Bitcoin is revolutionary, we know that. Back to the BTC-fiat exchange markets, all outcomes should be viewed positively from here.

Price keeps climbing and flies to the moon: nuff said already. Bitcoin holders are empowered with new-found wealth, which hopefully at least some of us will use to reinvest into the bitcoin ecosystem and not just swan around on yachts off the coast of Monaco. :)
Price stabilizes/plateaus for a while: bitcoin will look more viable as a transactional currency, and merchants in particular will appreciate the stability. Meanwhile, bitcoin remains a strong inflation-proof store of value.
Price falls, beginning a moderate bear market: the healthy "correction" will help take the air out of a possible calamitous megabubble, and we can rebuild from that. Some will appreciate the cheaper BTC they can purchase with fiat.
Price crashes back to <<$100: assuming no failure in Bitcoin protocol, see this as an amazing (third?) opportunity to pick up bitcoin at "extreme fire sale" (read unbelievably cheap, considering the long-term prospects) prices. Bring it on!

Without greed, no one would have invested any time or money into Bitcoins a few years ago.

You need to appeal to people's instinctive greediness on some level to get just about any project off the ground.

I don't really see greed as a problem to Bitcoins. It's a necessary kickstarter to build its infrastructure.

If BTCs were worth zero, then why should anyone care to trade them or mine them?

So yeah, greed does make the world go around.

Unless they believed they were doing something worthwhile. An intellectual exercise. That's not greed.

So you start all your projects based on greed? That's pretty depressing. You must not do much for fun.

Depressing.

How many people can you get into the system to build it up to where it is today if it wasn't because of greed?

For every user who are here for an "intellectual exercise", it's likely that you have another 3 or 4 who are in here for monetary gains. Let's not delude ourselves.

Lol @ you believing we are getting people 'into the system' by making them run after profits

noob is noob

I'm pretty sure all of the revolutionary advancements of our lifetime were not built on greed. You name it, probably wasn't greed. Facebook, Internet, Google, whatever. These were all exercises in intelligence and providing utility. Solving a problem, not looking for a cash cow. The adoption and subsequent profitability came after and probably was not a forethought.

Edit: and in that batch, I include bitcoin. "satoshi" didn't even want WikiLeaks to accept BTC because it's still in beta, but if he were greedy he would surely implore them to do so. He/They/whatever, probably would not be happy with how Bitcoin has been going.

But you're right, I do believe a huge, HUGE majority of new "adopters" are here just for the quick profit. Couldn't agree more.

Well it can be both. People want to solve worthwhile problems and want to profit at the same time. That's why greed is a part of Bitcoin (along with all the other non-greed related aspects), as much as you might or might not like it.

You are so naive that it is unbearable.

Oh no! I'm making a newbie troll upset because our opinions aren't in sync, what ever shall I do?

I never get upset. I simply make more money.

Of course I'm not saying that greed is only motive, just that it's probably the biggest motive. For examply I would love to see Bitcoin thrive for ideological reasons that has to do with libertarianism. But yes, I am greedy bastard that is going to make so much money out of this as possible. And I don't think that these two exclude each other.

Long term greedy is still greedy. ;)

Like the socky said, Greed is good.

Facebook: Built to make money. GREED
Internet: Built to insure government structure would survive nuclear attack. Not greed, something much worse: lust for power.
Google: Built to make money. GREED
Bitcoin: Built to literally make money. GREED

a-greed.

Exactly what I meant.

I don't believe Facebook or Google was started with the intent to make money, although I'm sure they thought it could be a potential byproduct if their ideas panned out. Nor was the internet (WWW specifically). And most certainly, neither was bitcoin. Just because something might occur as a consequence of an endeavor does not make it the motivation for said endeavor. But I'm more than certain we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Fear is a more powerful emotion than greed. If a crash occurs, it will be temporary and not as deep as the original crash (which was caused by mass hackings/scams that came to light)

How, exactly, is "I'm gonna make a new currency" not setting out to make money?

True capitalism creates a productive society based upon the knowledge that greed is a human trait.

Other social structures try to exist by suppressing greed.

Sort of like religions trying to suppress other human traits  to fit their own social structure.

I prefer to allow my own humanity to thrive.

Well, one scenario? I don't keep any of the "new currency."

I think people in this thread are conflating greed, with a desire to attain financial security through hard work and productivity. The difference between the two is probably pragmatism, humility, and respect for their fellow man*. But I'm no philosopher.

Satoshi was mining right along with the rest of them in the early days.

Greed is humanity's natural desire to better themselves. Sometimes financially.

Mining and verifying is necessary for this protocol to function. And beside, you asked for a scenario. I gave you one.

That's not greed. Reacquaint yourself with the definition ASAP.

So, it was necessary that he make money. You're not helping your case, here.

Like the man said, for lack of a better word. Unless you have a better word for that desire?

Really? And how many other things have you invested in? I think that BTC started being like no other investment about a month ago. Before that most of you here weren't so sure that it had such a $$$-future. Now that the price is over the roof, everybody is starting to see new cars and houses with the 10-100-1000 BTC that they hold. That's greed.

Greed is also consuming massive amounts of oil, as opposed to renewable energy sources, which are being suppressed by Big Oil. Greed is also medical marijuana being suppressed by Big Pharma. Greed is getting a $1000 check for a simple doctor's visit, with courtesy of the Med's Cartel. Greed is about getting more and more money, and that's what a lot of people here want. They don't give a f**k about BTC- they just wanna see the price rise and rise and make a profit out of it, telling themselves and everybody else some far-fetched stories that a lot of people are into it now, it's the future and so on(FUNDAMENTALS, as they call it).

And I don't think that's what BTC is about- i personally see it next to renewable energy, alternative medicines and free people(not the slaves that most have become- slave to the bank, slave to the government, slaves to their corporations where they work).
Bitcoin is freedom- freedom to choose when and where you'll transact with who. Without having to feed giant banks and corporations for transactions and having corrupt government officials breathing down your neck.

Exactly. And that is worth a hell of a lot, to a hell of a lot of people. THERE's yer "fundamentals."

Well, if they are the fundamentals, I only see speculators here. That's my point- I don't see real people wanting real freedom, just a lotta people wanting quick buck. And that will hurt BTC, but after them I think that the fundamentals will come.

Perhaps because you're in the SPECULATION subforum.

Come visit the politics and society boards, then you'll see the people wanting the freedom.

You're right  ;D But those speculators are hurting our freedom!  ???

Nah. Just riding our coat-tails.

Are you sure? Wasn't it built around scientific research (CERN) and Military communications? 'Government structure' as in social security, taxes, police etc are as rigid as banks in adopting new technology.

True. Greed is (for me) the desire to better yourself while [not caring about] worsening others

"Government structure" is not the social programs, nor even the police force. That's just the stuff they provide to keep you from shoving their heads in nooses. Government structure is the chain of command. And that is what the internet was built to maintain.

No, that's irresponsible greed.

Hmmm.... We could build a whole new conspiracy theory on that one  ;)

click (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm)

You want to attain (financial) security through hard work and productivity? This goes against every natural instinct and drive for pretty much every species out there. (I am sure there are probably a couple exceptions, but I doubt they will be around for much longer. ;)) Those that manage to obtain the most for the least amount of effort are the ones in the best position to utilize their stores and survive in possible future times of famine and further be able to pass their genes on. Having finance and trade as tools to attain these goals is only slightly more sophisticated than squirrels storing nuts in a tree for the winter.

You might want to watch this sweetheart. She might help you understand "greed" a little better.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEE9A33593A261433 (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEE9A33593A261433)


What about the guy who buys good from a wholesaler to sell them in his local neighborhood. Is he also a greedy speculator? Isn't he speculating that he can buy low and sell higher? What if he sees a potential shortage of his goods coming in the near future. Is it bad for him to plan accordingly? Does that make him greedy?


That's too bad. Maybe you could buy a few now and then read my signature. That way you don't have to be exposed to BTC for very long.


Again, please, by all means, you go first (and this includes you, too, Crazy). Can you prove what an upstanding, selfless person you are? Show us how you have such a lack of greed by donating some BTC to the address in my signature. I can assure you that they will not be used (they possibly moved to a more secure address) for a very long time (short of getting hacked) and that will help stablize BTC as a currency suitable for everyday trade. ;)

Well, the question still stands. Do you have a better word for that desire? If so, then we can define greed as "irresponsible X."

Maybe 'irresponsible hoarding' could work.
But greed not only expresses the desire to better yourself, also the desire to obtain power to keep bettering yourself.
Dunno if irresponsible hoarding does the job.

No, hoarding does not successfully express the desire to better yourself. Merely a desire to have more stuff.

I think the desire to better yourself and to obtain the power necessary to keep bettering yourself is a natural and commendable trait. Only when this comes at the expense of others is it irresponsible.

Come to think about it.. Human greed is freaky  ???

My previous 'better yourself without caring about others' indeed doesn't cut it.

I saw at a documentary about a tiger mom last week. 3 cubs, cute as hell  ;D

At some point tigermom bettered herself and she didn't really care about what that little monkey thought of her plan. She bettered herself, killed a monkey in the process but still I can't call that greed. Even when that monkey was just 'a lesson' for the cubs; They didn't eat it.

So here's another shot
Greed is bettering yourself beyond reasonable. While [not caring about] worsening others.

All well and good, but we're not looking for a definition of the word greed. What we're looking for is a word to replace it to mean the natural and commendable desire to better yourself and obtain the power necessary to continue bettering yourself. Whereupon we can then use that word in the definition of the word greed.

Until then, for lack of a better word, I'll continue to use greed, and consider what you call "greed" to be "irresponsible greed"

self-nourishment?

As in "Greed is irresponsible exaggerated self-nourishment"?  ;)

Who gets to judge what is irresponsible? Perhaps I feel that what I consider responsible for me could be considered irresponsible by another. If someone is greedy, who cares? As long as they aren't harming anyone it really shouldn't matter, should it?

Might you be looking for the term self-interest?

You are right. Didn't think about that. Greed doesn't imply irresponsibility. Does feel that way, though.  :) Maybe because greed and jealousy are friends.

There we go.

Without greed - or self-interest, if you prefer - the human race would still be living in caves and crapping in a pile of leaves at the door.