Bitcoin Forum

What madhatter has done is nothing short of Brilliant!

His new http://bitcoin2cc.com (http://bitcoin2cc.com) lets anyone shop anywhere with Bitcoin.

I now link to it directly from the top of http://BitcoinShop.com (http://BitcoinShop.com)   (And I redirected BitcoinCard.com (http://BitcoinCard.com) to his page. )

Bravo!

OMG  If it really works as it claims, it is just REVOLUTIONNARY.

It seems so awesome I have difficulties believing in it.

Thank you, Bruce.

Yes, it is very real -- I promise. Scouts' honor! :)

This is great, if this thing works it's the best invention after Bitcoin  ;D

I'll try that soon.  I'll try to buy a Vim t-shirt with bitcoins.  I've been wanting to buy one for some time now.  I'll use this as a pretext to do so.

Just bought a vim shirt with bitcoincc http://www.freewear.org/?page=show_item&id=FW0048

His service converts Bitcoin into a Visa credit card number... which you can use for shopping online anywhere.  Nothing whatsoever to do with PayPal or bank wire transfers.

Well, freewear.org 's paiement methods were Paypal or bank transfer.  So I had to create a Paypal account.

Still, Madhatter has done something great.  I can't deny it.

On paypal you can click "don't have a paypal account?" and it will let you enter in a normal credit card number

Yeah, i noticed this also....

I want to praise Madhatter for the initiative, but I am not convinced this is good for growing the bitcoin economy.

At the end of the day it encourages changing bitcoins for dollars to buy stuff, not creating a real bitcoin economy. If people start using your service a lot you will end up with a bunch of bitcoins and less dollars, and if you have nowhere to directly spend those bitcoins... If you are happy to accumulate bitcoins for the future and you see this as a way to as a complement to encourage people to use bitcoin then its ok. But its not something sustainable.

It would be way more easy to use bitcoin directly.  But until people realize that, a compatibility layer is a good thing.

Yeah regardless of the most 'ideal' way, people won't use bitcoin until they feel its "safe" and they're not just throwing money away.

Well, while bitcoins cannot be easily used for exchanging (money), they can be used as a store of value, pretty much like gold and silver are used today. His service makes that much easier, since now you can easily sell your coins for something more much more liquid.

I believe that first bitcoins will be used as some sort of "odd investment". If like this they become sufficiently popular and stable to be used as money, then they might go mainstream.

Currently, I buy Visa numbers from two different banks. They both charge a fee for each card number up front. The purchase fee is in dollars. (CAD). Because these card numbers are essentially prefunded they do not bear any interest charges, or overdue fees when in use, so I assume this is how the banks make their money.

The pricing works like this: A $25 number, for example, has a purchase fee in dollars. I add my own fee in dollars to that for my time. (Unfortunately I can't refill my inventories automatically. I buy the numbers in batches and I have to manually copy+paste them into my database.) The combined fee in dollars is converted to Bitcoins using the Canadian Dollar exchange rate from Bitcoin 4 Cash (http://www.bitcoin4cash.com/).

I am still adjusting the prices around, so you'll likely see some card denominations go up and some go down. I'm trying to match/or beat the retail rates, but it is difficult when each bank that I use charges different fees.

I am still trying to find that "sweet spot" where the prices are fair and competitive for Bitcoin users, I can make a bit of scratch to cover my expenses, and provide a valuable service at the same time. :)

I hope that answers your question.

I'm curious...   if these are essentially the same thing as the "prepaid visa cards" I see being sold in various denominations at local stores like Walgreens...?
Are these the same idea?
Or are they different somehow?
I've never bought one, so I don't know how they deal with issues like:  verification of "billing address" and "billing zip code", etc.  ....during purchase approval process....?

They work just like a debt card. I successfully linked one to paypal and bought stuff on its own with a different one.

liqpay.com is hard to link because its USD and they put money into your account to verify and i think the conversion or something throws it off because i kept getting the verify amount wrong

They are very similar, except I am able to activate them as they are ordered. I also get them at wholesale prices. If you buy one over the counter they are activated at the shop and they are far more expensive.

Hmm... you just gave me a great idea!

I could accept prepaid visa gift cards in the mail (with the receipt) and charge the cards when they arrive with my USD merchant numbers and then destroy the card. (The customer can't chargeback without the receipt AND plastic card.) I would send the Bitcoins to the customer at that point.

There would be no risk of chargebacks that way, and I don't have to lose on currency conversion. I can already charge credit cards in US funds.

If someone wants to try it out email me or PM me -- I'll try it out at cost (0%). US Dollar VISA giftcards only! (Sorry to my friends in Europe.)

The Madhatter

P.S. $100 card numbers have been refilled @ Bitcoin 2 Credit Card (http://www.bitcoin2cc.com/)

I'll help you out if I can.
I'm not sure if I understand the plan completely.
I buy a $100 prepaid Visa from a shop here...
Then mail it to you?
I'm slightly lost after that.
Be careful you don't violate any MasterCard /Visa TOS, or worse, banking regulations.
Email me and tell me what you want me to do.
bruce@brucewagner.com

Correct. You are sending me a gift.. a giftcard. :) Get it? :P Mailing a giftcard isn't against the rules.

I'll trade you $100 USD's worth of Bitcoins for it. When I receive it here I'll just buy something from myself (with my virtual terminal) and destroy the card.


Email sent.

All your cards are out of stock :(

I guess his new service is more popular than he expected.  :)

A lot of people have just been hoarding bitcoins so far.  And suddenly Madhatter makes it possible for them to spend their bitcoins anywhere on the web.  No wonder his cards are sold quickly.


I think he should raise his prices, or sell his cards with an auction process.

- 1 I don't like the idea of him raising his prices. Others will just compete for less anyway. And definitely not an auction.  We need a stable reliable ways to convert Bitcoins to cash/credit card, and vice versa.   The pricing has to be stable and competitive.

I don't know what you mean by "stable", since we're talking about pricing in $.   I know the dollar has not already plunged, but in the long term, we can't hope for any stable BTC/USD rate anyway.  Otherwise, it would deny the whole purpose of bitcoin.

No bids yet ...  opening bid on a $100 gift card 300 BTC, about $83 at current market rate:

  http://www.biddingpond.com/item.php?id=145

What I mean by "a stable price", is a fixed % fee (in addition to the current exchange rate).  Not an auction.   If I want to buy something online RIGHT NOW, I want to know that I can go buy a visa number for a reasonable fixed price.  Right Now.    Not an auction. 

I am aware of that, thank you.

I am selling them as fast as I refill them at the moment.

sgornick, why not sell Visa gift cards on BiddingPond?  Is there a premium?

I managed to refill again from some spares I had. I have to wait until the banks are open to add more.

Cryptoman,

> Is there a premium?

Here is my "system":

Safeway / Von's has a kiosk for GiftCardMall.com gift cards with the retailers and denominations that I listed on that BiddingPond listing.  

The special offer from Safeway was $15 voucher for the next grocery purchase if you buy $150 of gift cards.  

So, if you already plan to buy groceries at Von's, ... then the gift cards are, in effect, 90 cents on the dollar.

I then purchase using my PayPal debit card (signature method) and get 1.5% rebate from PayPal as well.

So that leaves the cards costing me $0.885 for each $1 face value.

Selling costs are the 2 BTC for the BiddingPond Listing (PayNow listing price), plus the postage (USPS First Class Mail Parcel, w/delivery confirmation ... about $1.60).   Plus the time (and gas) for the short trip to Vons.  So, ... basically breaking even.

My objective was to see if this was a feasible method that provided me a way to exchange USD for BTC without going much over market price.  For that purpose, there is now BiddingGateway.com (http://BiddingGateway.com) as an option.  I'll keep the listings up though, to see what level of interest there is for them.

As far as Visa cards specifically -- the $15-off deal specifically excluded some retailers cards, e.g., mobile phone prepaid cards, reloadable cards, and prepaid VISA / MC cards.  So I could do them but I would pay face value (well, less PayPal's 1.5% rebate).  And Madhatter ( http://www.bitcoin2cc.com (http://www.bitcoin2cc.com) ) already provides a Visa prepaid solution.

Just place my bid. Check out at biddingpond please. I prefer electronic delivery.

The amounts are in CAD not USD

Sgornick, thanks for explaining your system.  Good thinking!  I wish you the best of luck--having more Bitcoin exchange options is definitely a good thing.  

Could I theoretically use this prepaid number in physical stores?

I don't see why not... a visa is a visa... although they might be suspicious that you're using numbers without a card, even though its not inherently "illegal"

I might be able to get the $100 denominations as physical cards. I could mail them out as lettermail.

Any interest in this service?

You're kidding ?  Of course it would be nice.  Although I'm not sure I could use them in Europe.  But that would worth a try.

Don't they have visa in europe?

Indeed.  That was silly of me.  I just have difficulties to realize how easy it is to create a Visa with this stuff.

Was I kidding? :P

Hmm... I should be able to send them for the cost of a stamp/envelope by lettermail.

It should work wherever VISA is accepted.

We have VISA but from my experience no gift cards, thus merchants my frown upon accepting a card that does not hold the owner's name. But I never tried a card with no name, only have my wife use the card in my name, so that might be completely different.

I feel a parody commerical comming on ;)

Hmm.. I'm not sure if I can get the cards encoded with a particular name on them or not. I'll have to talk to the bank.

if it *doesn't* work, its not like you're out any money, you just can't use it in that store, you can always link it to paypal and transfer it to your bank account. I've already created a paypal account with one of these cards as the funding source.

Send a letter by traditional mail 50c

Pay currency conversions to purchase bitcoins 3%

Bitcoin accepted everywhere Mastercard and Visa is without any fees ?

Priceless!!

Rates seem a little steep at current market prices...$100USD card for ~128USD worth of BTC....that's quite a margin...

why do people think that converting your bitcoins into plastic is good for the bitcoin economy?

if you want to spend your bitcoins why not just withdraw into your bank, no need for one guy to get everyones bitcoins for some dumb prepaid card service

Note the date of OP