Bitcoin Forum

Hi Everyone,

I've been lending on Poloniex for a while now. I tried a number of bots and while they did lend out my bitcoin well they didn't seem to have profit in mind. I realized after a while that I probably should just write my own, given that I write software for a living, so I did. It started out as a basic lending bot, dropping in offers as funds became available at the so called "market rate." In time I realized that there were a couple of things I could do that would maximize profits - the first was taking advantage of above average rates by extending those loans out longer so I had a chance of holding a profitable loan for a while after the offer rates dropped. The second was to not drop in offers just because the rate was where it was. Rather, I wrote in rules that define how quickly the bot would allow a loan offer rate to drop. Oftentimes, in just a minute or two, the market corrects and the rates rise again, and I don't end up getting stuck with a loan issued at the bottom of the dip. Initially I planned on just writing it for myself but as I continued to use and refine it I realized that it's something that a lot of lenders could use.

So - here it is...


Pololen is a full featured, lightweight application for lending Bitcoin (only) on the Poloniex exchange, requiring no installer and capable of running off a USB drive if portability is required. It's designed to be both anonymous and decentralized, though I can't help the fact that it does connect to a centralized exchange. Once configured with the Poloniex API keys, Pololen will check the users account each minute, monitoring the current offer book and placing offers at a user configurable depth within the book as funds become available in the lending account. Pololen also tracks rates for the last 15 days, building a database of points to accurately calculate the mean loan rate as well as the average deviation from the mean allowing it to accurately define when calculated rates are outliers. With user configurable settings Pololen allows the user to set a limit, in deviations, of how low they will allow a bid. Pololen also allows the user to maximize earnings by extending the duration of loans based on how many deviations they are from the mean. In human speak, this is a "sliding scale" of loan durations in which the higher the rate, the longer the duration. These settings are completely configurable by the user and will show the user the result of each change they make based on the current mean and deviation. By making these changes based on deviation and mean, rather than hard and fast numbers, the settings will follow the market as it ebbs and flows. To avoid "Polo Pogo" and further maximize earnings Pololen uses a step down technique as loan rates drop. Rather than drop offered rates into the hole when a large amount of funds become available and rates plummet, Pololen will drop it's target rate slowly toward the market rate, giving the market time to stabilize and work it's way back up toward more profitable rates.





Options & Features:
Depth BTC: This user option allows the user to vary the depth in which the loans are placed. While the default depth is working fine in the current market, should the user experience long delays between loans being accepted this number should be be worked downward toward one (slowly). In the event that the user feels their loan rates are not high enough, the user should (slowly) increase this number. Please note that the higher this number is, the longer it will take loan offers to be taken. The lower it is, the lower the rate that will be received for the loan.

Bank: By default Pololen lends all the funds in the user's lending account. As there is no way for the lender to end a loan prematurely, the bank function was added to allow the user the ability to stop loaning a set number of funds, but not have to completely stop lending. Once the user puts a number in the box (say, ".5" for example) Pololen will stop making loans until the lending account reaches that amount. After the account reaches that value all funds in the account over the bank amount will continue to be offered as loans. This keeps as many funds as possible lent out while still allowing the user access to needed funds as loans mature.

Variable Duration: Variable duration allows Pololen to maximize earnings by extending loans for longer than two days depending on how many deviations the loan is from the average. While not required, these settings allow the user to possibly pick up longer, higher rate loans during an uptick in the market and possibly hold those loans after the market settles to more average rates. While not guaranteed to hold a loan for any length of time, the fact is you most definitely won't hold it for more than two days if it's only offered for two days. What lender out there wouldn't want to hold a loan at 0.8% or 1% for 40 days in the current market? When using variable duration the user sets three parameters. The first is the maximum amount of time the user will allow their funds to be lent for. The second is how many rate deviations below the mean the user is willing to post a loan for. The third is the amount of deviations the user would like to have before adding a day to the duration. This sounds confusing, no doubt, but when making changes to these settings you'll be able to see the effect those changes will have at the current calculated market rates.

Manual Override Manual override allows you to set more traditional values, with a defined minimum and a defined duration length, should you choose to not use variable duration.


Reporting: Pololen records all loans closed on CSV files saved by month. In addition to the information that can be downloaded from Poloniex, Pololen will also stamp the data with the value of the earned amount for the loan in USD based on the current value of bitcoin. This is tremendously helpful when comparing current and prior values. Files are stored in the "Records" folder in the same folder as the application.


Charting: Pololen includes several charts to help the user see what's happening in the market. The market chart shows the rates over the last 15 days as well as showing mean + deviation and mean - deviation to indicate where the "Average" lending rates are over that 15 day period. The hourly chart shows the last hour of rate data by minute indicating where the market rates are as well as where Pololen would have placed your loan offer based on the market rate and it's step down rate drop functionality.


Automatically Move To lending Account: When this option is checked Pololen will automatically move any BTC that appears in your exchange account to your lending account and lend it out. If you are an active trader DO NOT TURN ON THIS OPTION. However, if you have funds being delivered to your exchange account and want to automatically lend those funds, turning on this option in the deviation calculations tab will move the BTC automatically and lend it out.

Requirements:
Microsoft .NET 4.5.2 Library
A Poloniex lending account
API Access to Poloniex (DO NOT turn on trading and DO NOT turn on withdrawal.)
A Windows computer, OS 7 or above, to run Pololen preferably 24/7.
And, of course, An internet connection

Costs:
After careful evaluation I've decided that offering the software with the SaaS model is the best option. As such, and in the spirit of Bitcoin, the software uses the block chain to allow for anonymous payment. Payment needs to be purchased at a rate of 5% of expected revenue. For instance, to earn 0.1 bitcoin in interest payment will need to be made at a value of 0.005. Please note that the software will allow the user to run a deficit in credits, allowing 0.02 BTC to be earned before the application stops lending and begs for money. This was built in not only to allow new users to try before they buy, but also for established users to ensure they have adequate warning before the application stops lending. I further recommend, simply based on sound judgement, that the user not pay for more than is needed to cover their expected profits for a two to four week period.

API Requirements:
The user will need to create an API Key for Pololen on the Poloniex website. The key should NOT allow trading and most certainly should NOT allow withdrawal. While you can restrict the API to a certain IP address, you will experience problems if you are operating from a location with a dynamic IP - or you install the application on a USB and run it from more than one location. For that reason please only restrict to a single IP address if you understand what it means to do so. Only the minimum permissions are required to run Pololen. DO NOT turn on trading and DO NOT turn on withdrawal. Please do not attempt to reuse an existing API. It can cause errors. Also, please only run one copy of Pololen on a given account and turn off any other BTC lending bots you may have.


Data Averaging (Important):
Pololen ships with a representative file of rate data to get things going for you. However, this data will not reflect current market rates until the application has run, 24/7, for a couple of weeks. For that reason the user should check the "Deviation Calculations" tab daily, or more often if you can, and make adjustments to target the application to their lending style. As the application runs it will collect more and more data and you will find your changes in this tab will be less and less until ultimately it's tuned in to operate as you expect it to in a shifting market.

Little Loans:
If you are new to automated lending you should know that over time your big chunk of a BTC loan will turn into a bunch of little BTC loans. This happens as the loans are oftentimes divided between multiple traders and positions may be closed at different times. Eventually you will have lots of little loans that are being offered and closed all the time. This is a good thing as it helps average out the rates you get in a particular day, as well as allow some of your loans to be higher rates for a longer duration than you are likely to get with just one big loan.


If you're interested in downloading or looking for additional information, please check out http://poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/ (http://poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/)


Released:
Change bot to keep offer in place rather than cancelling and reposting it if the rate has not changed. (COMPLETE - Build 1.0.1.6)
Allow minimum minutes to be set before an offer is cancelled. (COMPLETE Build 1.0.1.6)

Coded - in testing - users can expect in next build:
Stats page to show more in depth analysis. (Code Complete - in testing but easy stats - amount on offer, amount on loan, total of on offer and on loan, total credits available, estimated days worth of credits, gross fee total of current loans)
Better credit estimating by day (Code Complete - in testing - On stats tab)
List of open loans with current Poloniex fees and durations. (Code Complete - in testing - new tab)

Under Review:
Review API lock in the event that the user has not entered in an API yet.
Status alerts on low credits (email, SMS, both?)
Add a date to bank functionality so funds will continue to be lent and only stop lending as the date approaches to hold out the bank amount on time.
Change maximum loan offer functionality so all funds get lent - ie if max is .5 and .5001234 is available split into two loans so that .0001234 isn't left unleant.
Show total amount available for loans on Poloniex (not by user but by total offers on the book.)
Allow more currencies than USD AND no currency to be selected.

Deferred for the moment:
Referral system for the bot.
Create Mac version of the bot.
Retail sales.

Unlikely:
Create online version of the bot.
Lend altcoins as well as Bitcoin.

EDIT:
06-01-2017 - Added note regarding only running on systems that use a "." for a decimal separator.
06-01-2017 - Removed note regarding localization. Application is changed to run in en-US mode on all locals. Updated link and MD5 for updated application.
06-02-2017 - Updated total generation to ensure it only includes BTC. Updated link and MD5.
06-02-2017 - Updated report generation to only report BTC loan returns. Updated link and MD5
06-07-2017 - Added functionality for automatically moving funds from exchange to lending (thanks Brobbel for the idea!). New build 1.0.1.0. Updated link and MD5
06-07-2017 - Added FAQ section
06-13-2017 - Somewhat surprised by the number of people registering. Put up a small webpage and linked to it in tile above.
06-17-2017 - Redirected downloads to the website so as not to have to continue to update two pages.
06-22-2017 - Added live rate charts
07-07-2017 - Added change request log to better keep track of change requests

I'm the first one ?

I'll give it a try...  ;-)

Beautyful tool !!!

It did not work with a new generated API key in the first place.
By the way, the app is asking for API/API key instead of API key/secret.
I had to generate another new API key, again without trading and withdrawal, and off he goes :-)

Dev, can you give me a more detailed explanation of " add x day to x deviation ".
Because that looks like the most important part.

Exciting !!!!!  :-)

barcodeguy , looks interesting.

May I have a setup of "deviation Calculations" for 8BTC available for one year ?  ...out of your experience ?  please ;-)

THX

This app does not charge 5% by itself, you have to pay for by hand. So, quite secure !

...a referral system and a chart who covers longer time span.
And a button to pause lending ;-)

Otherwise clever made, and looks very handy.

Thanks GoogleBit,

I'll be posting a new download this weekend to correct the labels on the API tab so they make more sense with Poloniex's API page.

In terms the add x day per x deviations, first I just want to remind everyone that BIP 148, Segwit2X, and the Bitmain plan are all coming together in the last week of July. I highly recommend that no one be lending coins during this period. Poloniex has made very clear that if coins are on loan when a split occurs, the lender will not receive back coins on both chains. I'm planning on working my coins out of lending prior to BIP 148 and Segwit2X activation, just to make sure I have them on hand before any possible splits occur.

That said, the idea of adding duration based on deviations is to attempt to maximize profits by holding the loans longer. Based on observation, there's a sweet spot between the 1st deviation and the 15th in which loans often stay in force for longer periods (that's between, roughly, 0.18% and 0.45% in the current market, but will change as the market rises and falls.) I find with rates over that you may have a loan accepted but it won't necessarily stay in force. My highest loan ever was 1.8%, but I only had it for 6 seconds.

For reference I'm personally adding 2 days per .4 deviations and the current average rate is roughly 0.15%. I usually give loans a maximum duration of 45 days. Right now, due to the situation in the end of July, I'm only lending for 5 days. These settings start adding days while still in the "high average" range.

The theory behind it is fairly simple. Loans that are in the average range are the easiest to get. Therefore it makes sense to keep the duration for those short so you can both get the benefits of compound interest and have a chance at a higher loan. As the rates move higher than average the likely hood of getting that loan rate again at the same time you have funds available for lending is less, so we try to hold those loans longer.

You will not hold all those above average loans, but you will hold some, and they will add to your overall amount earned. There is always a possibility, though, that the market will completely take off and you'll have a situation where higher rates are available and your funds are lent out lower. In practice, though, when the market is really flying and rates are high, traders are changing positions and oftentimes your loans will get closed because the trader that has it is shifting his position to include whatever is new and flying at that moment. I've been running this for a few months now and I have not seen a situation where I thought I missed out on higher rates due to extended loans. In theory it can happen and at some point it may, but I have not seen it yet.

I hope this makes sense :).

Hi Silvie_S,

I'm currently using 2 days per .4 deviations. Typically I lend for a max of 45 days, but with Segwit2X and BIP148 coming I want to make sure I'm not lending any coins when they activate, so right now I'm using 5 day max and will be turning off in the second week in July to start moving my coins to a safe "bunker" until the crisis is past.

Hi Mario,

Good suggestions. In terms the chart holding a longer span, which chart and how much time are you thinking? When I first started it up I was using a 30 day period to generate the mean and deviations, but I found it was too much data and cut it down to 2 weeks. The deviations over a month just got too big and I wanted them tighter. That doesn't mean I couldn't show more data, though.

I've thought about referrals and I've held off at the moment due to transaction fees. Most payments in are micropayments and if I were to pay out a percentage with fees where they are I'd be in a situation where I'd have to spend 100% of the balance in to pay 10% of the balance back out. I'm hoping after the situation in late July passes we'll have some kind of consensus and the fees will be a lot lower and I'll revisit.

....aaaah, I'm sure the bloody thing will do what I'm expecting, but I still fight with the settings ;-)

One reason might be, I installed yesterday and may have not enough history in db.

But...

Minimum Loan Duration 2-60 Days
Minimum Loan Rate: -0.1 to -5.0 Deviation
Add 1-10 Day Per: 0.1 - 10 Deviation

Can you give me an easy example which includes "Deviation". Here I struggle ;-(

An what is the "minimum Lending rate" in Operation Log?

thx

Hi GoogleBit,

The minimum is essentially how low you'll post a loan offer from the average rate. I added it before I added the step down settings, so to be honest I set mine very low (which is a high setting in the drop down) and rely on the step down. As you change this the text underneath for minimum rate will show the lowest rate it'll offer the loan for.

The deviation bit is a tough nut to crack - hopefully this helps. If this doesn't sound like what you were expecting feel free to let me know what you're thinking - here or via PM. You're absolutely right about the average data. Right now it's off the mean by about .05%. The problem is the market changes so often that the starting data will never be perfect.

When I initially started testing this I used real numbers to extend the loans based on my observation of the market. IE I added 1 day if the rate was over .2%, 2 days if over .3%, etc. When I proved to myself I had higher returns over time that's when I took the time to add the heavier math and additional settings. Long story short the only difference between adding loan duration based on a real number such as .2%, .3%, etc. and using deviations is that with deviations the system adjusts to the market whereas using a real value, like .2, .3, etc may not be meaningful at all if the market changes.

In terms an easy example for a deviation, it's a tough one. To be honest I really can't think of a simple example but hopefully this makes sense. Deviations give us an idea of how far a typical loan rate is from the average rate. IE, if the average rate is .15 and the market rate is .2 we can easily see that the market rate is higher than average and that is meaningful. However, we don't really know how meaningful it is. There could be a situation where the historical rates are .1, .2, .1, .2 which would also give us an average of .15, but that would mean the .2 isn't unusual at all - it's happening every other time we check. The idea of deviations is it gives us a way to create an average range rather than a single average number. We create that range as basically (average - deviation) on the low side and (average + deviation) on the high side. Anything falling in that range is nothing special. It also gives us a way to get an idea of how different the rate is that we're checking. The idea is the majority of your rates will fall within the average range, then a smaller amount will be within 1 deviation, and an even smaller amount will be within 2 deviations. As the rate becomes more deviations higher from the average range the likelihood of seeing it becomes less and less and it's value to the lender becomes more and more.

Here's some heavier math:
Deviations are a way to measure how far a given value is from the mean (or average). To generate it first we find the average (we add all the points from the last two weeks together and divide by the amount of points). Then, to find the average deviation we measure the distance of all the points from the average to the point's own value (and this is the absolute value, so even if the result is a negative number we make it positive). IE if we have five points that are 3, 8, 7, 9, 5 our average is 6.4. Then to find the deviation we do this:
6.4 - 3 = 3.4
6.4 - 8 = 1.6
6.4 - 7 = .6
6.4 - 9 = 2.6
6.4 - 5 = 1.4

Then we average those results and our deviation is 1.92. That allows us to set a range that we can consider average, in this case it would be 4.48 through 8.32. That means that anything outside that range is unusual. If it's lower than the range then as lenders we don't want it, but we still may want to take it for as short a time as possible. If it's higher than that range then we definitely want it and should treat it better than we would an average point. That's where adding days comes in.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!!

...for your quick and detailed answer.

After reading twice, I got headache. So I called my mate over, usually a clever IT pro. He could'nt figure it out either.
Sorry mate, I have to ask you in a different way:

What setting keeps my offers at the highest level, with very slow decreasing. So hat PoloLend only makes high offers (above 0.3%).
If the rate stays down at 0.13 for 3 days, I don't mind have no active loans.

(I'm worried that PoloLend lends all my 8btc in the first few minutes or hours, while tomorow we get better offers.)

sorry for asking again ;-)

THX

I have to agree in terms the math. It's pretty convoluted :)

Profit wise my findings are that I make better returns lending consistently letting the loans break up into smaller chunks with variable duration without a hard minimum. The step down rate dropping is also a big reason why I myself don't use a minimum rate at all. BUT - I hear you. I thought about it and while the current build doesn't have manual settings I am going to add them. The coding, in fact, is done. I just need to get the build on my box to test it.

So within the next day or two I'll have a new build with a tab for "Manual Overrides". If you select that you'll be able to set a duration between 2 and 60 days and set the minimum rate. The system will still try to get you a better than minimum rate if the market is higher than your minimum, but it won't go below the minimum rate you set.

This more or less will eliminate the mean and deviation logic in the bot and have it function like other bots have in the past. Again, I think using the mean and deviation does yield a higher return but if you're having good results with a minimum setting I'm more than happy to provide it.

I'm hoping to have the new build out within 36 hours or so. I'll make a post when it's ready for download.

Wow, what a Dev !!!

Did you read my brain ? ;-)

I'm sure you are very experienced in Polo lending, and you got even a better insight with your tool too.

I'm lending quite well between 0.2 an 0.37 and would like to keep it up there, till I know it better ;-)

Why can I see a booking in my "recent closings", where I lent 0.01 BTC for 11 seconds at 200000% ...........  don't forget to blink ;-)
Where does that come from ?

Looking forward for the new release, thanks mate :-)

Hi,

Now you've a website created with information, are you planning to create the possibility to work online instead of locally (like some other bots did/do)?
It should be nice to use it online, because normally my computer isn't 24/7 working - but now it does because of this really nice program!

That's a weird one - 200000% is a bit higher than I would expect :) It was flying for a while there, though. I might have a bug where there is a missing decimal point and it should be 2.00000. Let me know if you see it with any other ones.

The short loans, though, happen all the time at high percentages. Pololen will try to lend them, of course, at a super high rate. My record is 1.8% which lasted, maybe, 8 seconds. As soon as there are lower loan rates available I *think* Poloniex will close the existing ones and give the trader lower rates. That's only a guess though. I know that they can find lower rate loans for traders under certain circumstances, but I don't know what those circumstances are.

Or it could be the trader saw the loan rate and immediately closed their position. I know I would :)

Hi Brobbel,

It's good to hear from you. In terms your question I don't have a plan for it short term. One of the things I'd probably have to sacrifice would be speed. Poloniex limits the amount of inbound connections to the API from a single IP address to 6 connections per second. If I were to set up a website I'd either have to run it quite slow to support multiple users or I'd need to have a way to spawn additional server instances per small group of users so that I could maintain the speed and Poloniex wouldn't be taking in more than 6 connections per second. For that I would need to increase rates quite a bit. Even the rate increase, though, may not be enough. The other problem is that payments tend to be micro payments and transaction fees are so high currently that I'd lose a good portion of the fee to the miners when I try to sell it to pay for the server.

This may all completely change if Segwit activates but at this moment in time I suspect that the rates I'd have to charge to get enough funds after transaction fees are taken into consideration would be higher than the percentage that the user could reasonably expect to gain from using the service.

I realy appreciate your effort to make PoloLen better. Thank you for that.

It is always the Dev's effort what makes things great.

Unfortunately I have no idea how much work it is for you. So I blindly ask for additional functions. Take them as brainstorm ideas, they may fit in your project or not. Maybe you already had that function and you have learned, it's useless... ;-)

About the graphs lenght, would be nice to be sure the "Market" graph is 60 days. If thats the case, don't mind about my question for longer graphs, it's already there ;-)

I would like to set, how much of the offered BTC I would like to ignore, say "60BTC". To override this big low offers of 40-200 BTC, which pop up every now and then.

Would be nice to be able to put a % value in "Bank" ...

What about making a mask for the "operation" log, preferably with correct numbers. For example "Recommended Rate: 0.00176200", that looks a bit strange, even it works ;-)

While watching PoloLen for hours till my head fell on the table, I noticed, that about a third of the time, the PoloLen offer is just 0.0001 too high, just sitting on a price together with a big offer. I would take off 0.0001% in general from your "Recommended Rate". Or have a tick box, where I can mark "-0.0001".


The "Deviation Calculations" window shows me, that you spent a lot of time with this problem. You're brain is so much tuned to that, that a new brain struggles to follow you, because you already built your own way of thinking.
This window looks like it's made by Spok from Starship Enterprise, sure it is correct, but ....  :-)


PS: ...if you can make a hot girl popping up after every profit, and telling me I'm the biggest and the best ;-)

Hi All,

I've posted a new version - 1.0.1.2. I recommend this version for all users as it has a couple of changes that I consider critical. I'm no longer linking downloads here - so please go over to the website at http://poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com (http://poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com) for the download link and instructions. Instructions for upgrading are in the FAQ. It's pretty easy, just a couple of files to move, but make sure you have a full backup of your folder in case you need it.

Changes:
Critical:
Changed order of operations in lending cycle to minimize the time between a loan being cancelled and a loan being offered.
Changed order of operations in history cycle to prioritize credit checks. There was a situation that if the Poloniex history retrieval failed then the credit check for new credits wouldn't happen until the next cycle.

Important:
Added manual overrides to make the app work more like a traditional bot, with a defined minimum rate and a defined duration, should the user want to go that route.
Changed the text on the API tab to better match the Poloniex website.
Updated handling of the BTC price retrieval. In prior versions if the API didn't return for some reason it set the price to 0. Now if we fail to retrieve a price we will use the last price retrieved until we are able to refresh it.

I am going to be fairly unavailable today so if you don't hear from me often don't worry I will be back.

Hi All,

I just posted a new build. There's no critical fixes in it so don't feel that you have to upgrade. I apologize for the quick turn between builds. There were some features I felt were needed for new users and I wanted to get them in there. If you want to upgrade please go over to the website to see updates regarding the UI, Max Loan Amounts, and manual offering loans, as well as cancelling them through the UI.

The short version:
The UI is now in percent - ie 0.1234% rather than 0.00143400. I initially released it with the 0.00143400 format as that's the internal format that Poloniex uses and it was helpful for me to see exactly what was going to the API for debugging. This also fixes a bug where rates without a decimal point showed bad data. I also added some tool tip data over the controls.

Max Loan Amount - This allows you to cap the maximum amount to lend in a single loan. IE, if you have 10 BTC in your account and want to issue small loans and you set this to 0.5 it would offer one offer at a time for 0.5, ultimately resulting in 20 loans for 0.5 rather than 1 loan for 10. Remember, though, Pololen attempts to only have one loan open at a time so this will take a while. I don't recommend using this all the time and I don't recommend using it at all if you are manually lending at higher than market rates. It's very likely if you use it in that situation that only a portion of your funds will be leant at a time. There is also an increased chance of Pololen not being able to close offers that it opens if there is a problem with the server when using this functionality so if you are using it you should keep an eye on the loan offers you have out there.

Loan Offers are now visible - In part because of the above issue with offers being orphaned if Poloniex is overloaded or having a DDOS attack I went ahead and added a tab to show open offers. This will update each minute and has a cancel button so offers can be cancelled from here.

Loan Offers can be created manually - In part because I created a way to see open offers I figured the user should be able to create offers from here as well. Bear in mind that Pololen by default attempts to lend out all your funds so you'll need to use the bank function to keep some available in your account to be manually leant, should you choose to do so.

Version check - Pololen now checks every 12 hours to see if there is an update available and puts an unobtrusive note above the recommended rate on the lower left if there is a new version available.

Again my apologies for the short period between builds. This upgrade is only needed if the above sound like something you need.

Looks nice man. But I've always wonder what would happen if someone takes your loan and ends up losing all the money from your loan. What would happen in that case?

Thanks man,

In terms the risk - it's absolutely there. To my knowledge I have not heard about anyone losing money up until this point. Poloniex seems to do very well with Margin calls and liquidation if the trader gets close to a default. Nonetheless, they make very clear that it can happen: https://poloniex.com/support/aboutMarginTrading/ (https://poloniex.com/support/aboutMarginTrading/)

Lenders also need to pay very close attention to the possibility of a split next month with BIP148 and Segwit2x activating, as well as the Bitmain position to create another coin. If a fork does happen Poloniex will NOT issue coins from competing chains to the lender. That's a big deal for me personally and I'll be pulling my funds before the start up dates out of lending entirely until I have a better idea of how it's going to end. Poloniex's statement on Bitcoin Unlimited and a possible split most likely still applies, though they haven't issued any statements on BIP148 or Segwit2X as of yet (or if they have and I can't find it please, anyone, put in a link to it!) Here's their BU statement: https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.03.17-Hard-Fork/ (https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.03.17-Hard-Fork/)

Thank you very much so far.

Every coin would be happy and very succesful if they had an active Dev like you !

For the ones who install PoloLen first time, be aware. The tool shows it's full power after it was running for 30 days and filled the DB.
I have it running since about five days, and it get's better every day. In the beginning I thought it is not working correctly...

The "Dept BTC" on the top left corner says how many of the first offered BTC's he should ignore for his Deviation Calculation.. (right Dev?)

..and it get's better every time ;-)

PS: I pm'd the Dev with a few suggestions, took him about 24h to get out a new release!     MANY THANKS

Hi GoogleBit,

Thanks for your kind words. It'll make a huge difference once it's adjusted to the market. In terms the Depth BTC - you are correct but I'll expand on it a little bit. That value is how deep in the offer book that Pololen considers to be the market rate. The idea of it is that you wouldn't want to post a loan at the bottom of the book - often times the market rate is 0.2% or higher, but the first loan in the book is .06% or lower. We certainly don't want to issue a loan that low if we can help it. The important thing to remember is that Pololen resets loans every minute. Because it's so fast, you don't want to set DepthBTC to a number that is more Bitcoin then can be lent in a minute's time. Otherwise it'll keep going higher and higher as the market keeps moving higher and higher BUT the market may never catch up to it. IE if you set it to 50, but there's only 45 BTC coming off the book per minute, your offer will never be taken. I've been using 22 BTC, which is the default, for a while now and it's been working quite well. If the market slows down, though, you might want to make it lower. You might also want to make it higher if the market gets really hopping.

The recommended rate is the same as the market rate when the market rate is even or moving up. When the market rate drops down the recommended rate moves down slower. Oftentimes you'll see what I call sharkteeth or PoloPogo on the recommended chart. This is when the market rate dumps down for an instant and comes back up in a few minutes. The idea is that by not sticking directly to the market rate and slowly dropping down the recommended rate we give the market time to recover up to us, rather than us moving down to it, while still eventually meeting it.

Yea someone else who does margin trading told me the person would be liquidated before that happens. So it should be safe but the percentages are only worth it when  you can invest a significant capital so it's not for me yet.

Why? You can get easily 50% per year, so for small amounts it's good too. Minimum amount is 0.01 BTC.

Hey barcodeguy!

First off this is an awesome bot and thank you so much for your time and effort in making this and sharing it with everyone.

I'm having a bit of a problem,  I downloaded and installed Pololen, created an API key, and since I didn't have any funds in my account I just ran it to see how it works, and everything seemed fine.  And I messed around with the deviation numbers a bit too.  So I then deposited some BTC into my account as I was excited to try this bot out.  And all this time the bot was running by the way.  After I see my funds in my exchange wallet, it got automatically switched to lending since I had that option activated in the bot, and it transferred there fine.  After a while, I still didn't see where it says "Credits" get updated and it just sat a 0.  So I closed out of the bot, and was planning to restart it hoping that my credits would show in the bot when I restarted it.  But when I clicked the application I am now getting a pop up message saying "Missing Wallet File.  Terminating Application.  Your registration code is: NOT REGISTERED please use it in any correspondence with BarcodeGuy.  It will be copied to your clipboard when you hit OK" 

If you could help me get this fixed so I can get your awesome bot working I would greatly appreciate it!  Thanks again for everything.

Hi TRoze,

Something happened to your wallet file. If you cannot find it I'll have to build you a new one. I'll get in touch with you later via PM.

Just a clarification - credits are not what is in your Poloniex account. Credits are what you need to pay to run the application. Those will go as far as a -0.001 before it stops lending. If you had generated a payment address it would show up instead of the NOT REGISTERED text that you received, so it's good to know you won't lose any fund with the lost wallet.

That said - folks, your wallet file is extremely important. If you pay in credits their stored there. If you lose it I can regenerate an empty file but I can't get your credits back so please keep it backed up.

I had exactly the same effect. I installed, started, and was running. Closed it, restarted, no wallet file .....
So I reinstalled it from scratch, never had a problem since...

....waiting for a next release ;-)

Strange about the wallets. Their's definitely nothing there that will cause them to be deleted and their's also a backup maintained in the same folder. The next release will address recreating them, but you will still want to keep them backed up as recreated wallets will have a balance of -0.001.

New release maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow. I'm testing now. It'll be a good one - this is from my Changelog. I'll go into more detail and update the website once it's ready to release.

06-18-2017 - Modified deviation minimum rate to be negative or positive values
06-18-2017 - Added exception handling to cancel loan orders. If Poloniex returns an error current build shows an ugly exception box.
06-18-2017 - Updated manual lending to allow the user to split up offers into smaller chunks.
06-19-2017 - Added status indicator
06-19-2017 - Modified manual offer behavior to stop auto lending while the offer dialog is open
06-19-2017 - Added status bar to Manual Lend Window
06-19-2017 - Added status bar to main window
06-19-2017 - Added ability to interact with the server to get a single line message
06-19-2017 - Updated hourly chart to be three hours
06-19-2017 - Updated hourly chart to show minimum rate (based on deviation.)
06-19-2017 - Updated hourly chart to show manual rate (if lending manually)
06-19-2017 - Updated hourly chart to show points where an offer was placed
06-19-2017 - Added slider to set the rate that step down protection will drop to meet the market.
06-19-2017 - Changed missing wallet functionality to rebuild a wallet if needed with negative credits.

Here's a screenshot from the new hourly chart of the market activity this AM (at least it's morning for me.) It's a good illustrator of how rate drop protection can increase your loan rates if your using low minimums and essentially lending at market rate. Each dot is an offer (not necessarily taken) and the black line is market. When the market get's chaotic, going from 0.42% down to around 0.18%, the recommended rate runs higher giving the market time to correct. Unfortunately, at the right side of the graph you'll see the market stayed down for an hour or so and step down eventually got there. The new build coming will allow adjustment of step down so that lenders can make it much slower if they wish to.

http://poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/images/new_chart.png

...come on, you can't talk about all this brilliant new features while I'm sitting here and waiting ....tock.....tock...tock....

I love you mate ;-)

These options open up a way to very various and different behavior.
Looking forward as you can imagine ;-)


You're the best, many thanks, cheers MAX


....still waiting ;-)

A few little things missing:

- I can't find a link on your webpage to this Bitcointalk thread
- no e-mail contact address there
- no BTC address to send you a beer either ... (most important for us to show you how happy we are with your development)

...please do that ;-)

Good Catches GB,

I'll take care of the first two when I post the new build.

In terms the other - much appreciated but save it for credits :)

Now it's off to work. Take care.

I could probably sniff around, but I might as well ask you directly:

1. What servers does it connect to aside from poloniex?
2. How does it generate the credits bitcoin address?
3. How does it check payments?
4. How are you preventing someone from faking the payment to keep your bot running for free?

Would you be willing to create a version that is a one time payment? Or would you give discounts that scale with the interest earned? (Or do you really want to get paid $5000 if I generate $100k in interest from lending with your bot?)

I've yet to try your bot actually, thought I'd ask some questions first.

Hi Dabs,

Question 1 - Poloniex.com, CoinDesk.com, BlockChain.Info, PoloniexBitcoinlendingBot.com.

In terms the other questions that's really an internal thing. I completely understand if my lack of answers makes you decide to pass on it but I'm not going to release how that works, other than saying it doesn't require me to keep a server running. If I die tomorrow it'll work for as long as there's a compatible version of Windows to run it on and the user pays in credits to their credit address.

I haven't thought about a one time payment or tiered pricing, but I'll ponder it. If you have something specific in mind PM me.

..that is only working, when I make interest. My Credits are BTC in my own local PoloLen wallet, as I understood.
And you only get payed your 5% of the interest each time I make some.
A tip button would do the job too... give it the picture of a beer can,  and put a 0.0008 BTC behind it ;-)

Okay, fair answer, can I bug you some more, about the servers: poloniex, obviously to do its thing, coindesk and blockchain to check for credits? (why coindesk?), and your site, to check for new versions?

Now, I don't wish anyone to die tomorrow (actually, maybe a few politicians, but that's off-topic), but ... tiered pricing, or a ceiling? Or maybe even some sort of fixed price subscription (but really to keep updated.) I understand you won't release how it works, and probably won't open source this, that's okay. And I don't think you need to fear someone cracking your software, but at the same time I don't want you as a software dev to "devolve" into creating a complicated anti-crack/anti-piracy scheme which ruins the whole thing for everyone, so I asked those questions.

If you're going with a subscription, you might want at least one master bot (your own) that supplies that data from the past several weeks of lending, that way even if the bots are running locally, they can get updated market data, with the option to ignore that and work completely locally.

Yours does look better than the others I've found.

It should be looking even better after the build tonight. If you are interested in giving it a shot I'd wait until I get the next version up.

You're correct on all counts, but I also get BTC/USD off coindesk.com.

Very good point on the lending rates. That is on my mind too, although it's probably going to be less sophisticated than you envision. I'm thinking that I may update a file on the website every couple of hours and at least give new users the option of downloading that file once they get started up. The rates that come with it now take a while to match the market which can be tough on new users. Of course the alternative that's currently available is for new users to lend manually (like other bots do) and switch it to automatic after the real rates are stored in the bot.

Now I really have to get back to work before "the man" (whose actually not a bad guy) comes around and slaps me :)

The credits have to be paid through the blockchain, because the bot can't withdraw from Poloniex. When you look at the TAB API, you see:

This address is for adding credits. Do not deposit lending funds to this address.

The address mentioned there is used for the 5% of the interest, but it is an address of barcodeguy.

Hi All,

Build 1.0.1.4 has been posted. Existing users, please make sure you back up your existing copy to be on the safe side. Also, please double check the website instructions (http://poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com) to make sure you copy the right files from the old folder to the new one. Also, once you're back up and running please double check deviation calculations. I had to make some hard changes to wallet data which have carried across OK but it's worth a double check before you start it lending.

This is what's changed:
In Deviation Calculations the minimum rate can now be adjusted both negative and positive - IE you can adjust, in deviations, higher and lower than average.

I fixed a couple of exceptions that were not being caught in Cancel Loan functionality and in loading open offers. In those areas if the Poloniex API returned an error you might have seen an ugly system dialog. It's now being handled more gracefully.

Now when placing manual loan offers the automatic lending stops. This is more or less to be nice to the Poloniex API. It also means that you probably don't want to leave the place offer dialog open and walk away from it or your loans won't auto lend.

I adjusted the manual loan offer dialog to work much differently. It's now designed to work in volume. First off, it'll stay open unless you close it yourself. This is so you can use it to place multiple loans in one sitting. Second, if you really want to place multiple loans you can set it to offer multiple loans. When you use it enter your total loan amount, rate, and duration. Then enter how many loans you want to issue. It'll do the math. Note that when loans are issuing they only try once with Poloniex so please watch the log. It's at least possible that Poloniex is having a bad day (or DDOS) and won't post the loan.

I added a slider in the Deviation Calculations window to allow you to manage the rate in which step down protection drops down. Long story short it's equivalent to what you are running now is 16 and that's what it will default to. If you put it up to 20 there will be no step down protection at all. If you go down to 1 it'll take quite a while to drop down if the market tanks from a high rate.

The hourly chart has been bumped to three hours of data and now shows market, recommended, manual, minimum, and postings. Their's a picture of it above here somewhere from this morning.

Finally I did some general cleanup around the application and added status bars on the bottom. Those just dress it up a little bit and give indicators of what it's doing if you're not looking at the log.

Take care everyone!

Should've named it POLLEN :)

Sneeze your way to riches :)

...he did it again ;-)

Thanks Dev !

I will be in the Outback from August on for a few months and would like to have PoloLen doing my job over here ;-)
As it is, it looks like it will do the job perfectly!

I hope we get a day like yesterday soon, with big moves. That improved my DB quite a bit. Lowest rate in my PoloLen was 0.05%, now is up to 0.12xx%.
And finally I got it with the Deviation ;-)


Just in case, you think it could be improved, here a few suggestions ;-)

- show the amount BTC I have in my lending account available
- "Submit manual offer" does not show "finished" after placing all my little orders.
- "Submit manual offer" add "auto renew" tick box.


Would be nice:
- if my rec. current offer is equal to the one before, don't terminate.
- if my rec. offer is lower then my previous one, don't terminate previous one, till rec. offer moves above.


Wishlist:
- I would like to see how successful a setting is. Mybe have a reset button to reset "Profit Last 24h and 60days", or have two of them.
   Or at least have a % value there instead of $, with the respective lent amount. (not sure how to do this in reasonable numbers...)

Fantasy:
- be able to include "polos available offers" in the decision process, where the next offer will be placed. Because if offers go below 2300BTC, things start going crazy, and I would like to have my reate increase higher then usual.
  And/or let the actual BTC price have an influence...

Haluzinations:
- create a graph. I try to find a clever way to make the whole thing "visible":
  available Loan offers, with a fading background color red to green (about 2000-8000BTC)
  see the big offers (blocks)
  see my offers and loans already lent (dot)
  see my active lendings duration in days (2-60)
  see my average successful lending rate (24h and 60days)

  ...and so on ;-)
  

Thank you very, very much again, stay tuned !

Okay, I will try this first before bugging barcodeguy and having him make me a new wallet file.  Hope this works fingers crossed! :)

TRoze,

I sent a rebuilt wallet to the email you PM'd me a day or two ago.

You had mentioned that the app was running but not lending. Are you trying to lend less then 0.01 BTC? If so, Poloniex doesn't allow it and the application just waits for the minimum to show up in your lending account before it lends.

The project sounds nice, although I see that getting a lot of people to use it is going to be rough.  If you were full on open source, then sure, but asking people to put their API credentials into your software for a major trading exchange, basically giving you and your software to move and withdraw funds, in addition to the things that your software can do, is never going to happen.
 
A larger, well known company might pull it off closed code, but not a small developer. 
 

Perhaps you might want to reread the description. No trading, no withdrawal. I wouldn't turn them on for any piece of software and I wouldn't ask a user to either.

I see you did not researched this.

1) This isn't a trading bot, but a lending bot.
2) API has to be created WITHOUT withdraw function, so it can move but NEVER withdraw funds. And moving is restricted within Poloniex from exchange to lending (possible vice versa, although not implemented). Only loan offers are made, so in the worst possible case your funds are receiving up to 60 days interest.

EDIT:
barcodeguy, you were just ahead of me.

The latest release is working very well.
You added the right functions, well done.

Hopefully you get big bucks ;-)

thx

Thanks barcodeguy !

Everything is working well so far, great work !
The rate drop slider is great.

One thing, in submit manual Ooffer when I cancel an operation, and set a new percentage, and offer again it does not recalculate numer of offers.

Any new features soon ?

... Dev  you should not bring out such a tool when the weather is that nice !

Quite a strange day, with 11500BTc available on Polo, that's new to me ....


As usual I have some more ideas ;-)

- in general, take off -0.0001 from Deviation Recommended, to make sure to be 0.0001 lower then next big offer

- monitor BTC price and/or volume to be prepared (somehow), when a next wave is incoming

The "Dept BTC" in $ is good to have. But I think it would have a better relation to the market, If I could set a percentage instead.
Especially when availabe BTC moves between 1700 - 11500 BTC !

..another solution could be having an automated mechanism which is depending on the BTCs available.

Loan Rate up = set Depth BTC higher (to 16BTC)  at around 8000BTC
Loan Rate down = set Depth BTC lower (to 8BTC)  at around 2000BTC


...have fun ;-)

cheers, MAX

Thanks Silvie,

I'll get that one one the list. I'll post in a moment about some new stuff coming.

I'll see if I can find a way to track and test and see how the market moves (and if I can get the full on loan data from the API.)

Hi Folks,

Next build will include (at least) -

Rate shown in title bar
Mouseover on tables so you can mouse a point and see the rate associated with it.
Adding the 2 week average to the 3 hour chart.
Changing both charts so that the average shows nicer - ie not the thick red lines.
I'm also going to change the default point structure. I'm going with a suggestion Dabs made a few days ago. Current rates are now maintained on the website. New users (or any user for that matter) will be prompted to download current market rates when they click save on the API. That said, of course it won't work until the next build.

This is current market rates image that's somewhat live, being updated every 10 minutes or so. http://www.poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/pololen/market.png (http://www.poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/pololen/market.png)
http://www.poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/pololen/market.png

EDIT: Added actual image.

From your last changelog "Added ability to interact with the server to get a single line message from the server", what the hell is that ?


...otherwise, I'm ready   ::)

(Edit)
....aaah, you can display messages in PoloLen, got it.

Hi All,

Not sure if it's valuable to you or not, but I've put up a stats page on the website that shows the two week average rate, two week deviation from average, week chart, hourly chart (based on my settings), and my current settings on the bottom. It updates every 15 minutes or so.

http://www.poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/pololen/ (http://www.poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/pololen/)

I figured it might be good to have an online reference of what the market is doing.

Now I'm taking the night off. Take care everyone.

Hi GoogleBit,

Yup that's correct. It allows me to put important news or what have you in the bottom status bar.

Well thank you very much. It sucks lending manually alongside your bot. :)
How do two or three of them work together, as I've seen that it reacts to placed bids immediately - do they chase each other?

I still do not understand how this device works?
My english is very bad.
Is this a bot to trade?  ???

Either you should use Google Translate or you should read the thread: no it is not a bot to trade.

It is a bot to lend money on Poloniex. The title says it all...

....I have in my status bar a message that says, I'm the biggest and best, and I get a free lifetime version from you....  ;-)

Hey, you too? ;)

Watch your minimal rate change when you adjust the deviation.


It does its job very well,Some more deviation options to choose from or even a manual input box would be a suggestion.

I don't think it would work well - but I'll admit I've never tested it. They definitely wouldn't work together on one API. All the API calls include a "nonce" which essentially denotes the order of the calls to the API  and if requests are made out of the expected order the API gets very unhappy.

You guys are the best, but I still need beer money.

Klaas,

Are you thinking a wider range or more detail within the current range, or both? I try to avoid manual entry where I can as different cultures use different number formatting and the less error checking I have to do the smaller I can keep the app. Early on I changed the bot to only run in one culture (English Language, US as that's where I'm from) because there were issues with numbering - 0,0 vs 0.0 for instance, among other problems. Because of that decision I try to limit manual entry everywhere I can so that I can trust that the value entered into the control is compatible with the culture the app is running at.

I certainly can add numbers to the drop down if that helps though, but I don't want it so big it's unwieldy. So, I guess my question is do you need the steps less than .1 - ie 1.00, 1.10, 1.20 etc, or are you just looking for the range to be bigger - ie go to, say +20 to -20 deviations from the +10 to -10 it goes to now?

And if this makes no sense it's because I just woke up and math before 8:00AM is a dangerous thing :)

Hi,

I've another suggestion: when entering a maximum amount for lending, it's possible there is a small residual rest.
For example:
I entered 0.05 BTC as maximum amount. I had a loan of 0.10 BTC which ended, so this amount is 0.10050340 (for example ofcourse)
Now it creates the first lending of 0.05 BTC
Then it creates the second lending of 0.05 BT
Then 0.00050340 remains until a new amount is available for lending (too small amount)

Is it possible to change this into something like:
1st lending: 0.05
2nd lending: 0.04050340
3rd lending: 0.01

Greetings,

Brobbel

That's a good one Brobbel. I'm going to put it on the list. I'm going to do some refactoring of how loans are placed and pulled, and I'll implement this at the same time. Long story short Pololen was really designed to have one loan out at a time and I'm going to make some changes so it can reliably run more than one.

Hi Everyone,

Build 1.0.1.5 is up. This is primarily for new users as it allows users to update rates on install. It works when saving the API keys. If you upgrade and you don't have a full rate pack yet (this will be obvious if you look at your market chart) TURN OFF LENDING and go ahead to the API tab and click save. It'll prompt you if you want to download rates - just say OK. It may take a few seconds. I intentionally didn't thread this as I wanted to make sure the user couldn't start up the bot in the middle of downloading rates. That might not work out well.

Aside from that we have updated colors in charts, chart tool tips, rates in the title bar for an old friend, and I updated the deviation multiplier for calculating the minimum rate from +10 / -10 to +25 / -25.

Here's the change log:
Version 1.0.1.5
06-21-2017 - Added rate to title bar text.
06-21-2017 - Added tool tips to show rates on charts.
06-21-2017 - Added average range to three hour range (This is 2 week average.)
06-21-2017 - Modified charts to use a transparent range rather than two lines to show average. It just looks better.
                   But wait - there's more. I'm colorblind so it may look terrible.
06-21-2017 - Made admin changes to keep a rates list updated. Client applications can download new rates by clicking "Save"on the API tab.
                   The idea is that new users can download rates when adding their API, but existing users are free to use as well
                   if they need to refresh.
06-23-2017 - Updated deviation drop down for minimum rate to range from -25 to +25 rather then -10 to +10 as used previously.
                   This gives a lot more room for the user to maneuver as the deviations get smaller.

barcodeguy, you are really surprising.

I would have created a bot like you did, I would have kept it all for myself, pocketing all the profits alone. Because somehow, you're sawing off the branch you're sitting on. I mean that if more and more people lend money on Poloniex, the lending rates will go down and down...

I actually look at it differently - If it keeps newcomers from posting loans at ridiculously low rates and hitting the auto renew button it might actually make the market a little better.

I also don't really think this one app is going to bring in that many new lenders. I do think from what I'm seeing that it is attracting existing lenders that want a better rate. One of the things that has always bothered me with some existing bots is the tendency to just drop into the hole when the market goes down, driving it down further. That's one of the things I'm trying very hard to avoid. It'll help keep the rates higher and make more profits all around.

I also think if segwit goes through next month the price of bitcoin is going to take off. Personal opinion, mind you - I'm no expert and you can come back and quote and laugh at me a couple months from now if I'm wrong. If that does happen I think we're going to see at least some of the lenders out there taking profits in fiat, which will be healthy for the market as it's going to cause a marked decline in lended funds.

So, long story short, I just don't see this endeavor as having a serious impact on a market the size of Poloniex - but I won't lie. I gave that thought before I decided to release it.

He's selling the shovels, so to speak. 5%. Now, about a one-time payment thing ... hehe. Like some other trading bots, they sell for a fixed price. Give two options, maybe. If you charge 5% for small lenders, they will take that option. If you allow big lenders to pay say 0.1 one time, that's more than most commercial software huh, and maybe twice or three times the price of operating systems.

I'm still pondering that one. An OS doesn't make me money, really, but Visual Studio does - which is why I have to continuously pay for it. My brokers always want their percentage too as does Poloniex with their 15%.

I've thought about two possibilities, but I can't say if I will implement either of them. The first is a credit cut off - ie when a user pays in x BTC they no longer need credits. The second is if the credits reach x level anything added over that level is applied at 200% - IE adding .05 at that point would equal .1 credits - an effective reduction to 2.5%.

Like I said, I don't know if I will implement either of these, but if I should decide to implement one it'll probably be the reduction to 2.5%.

If you're looking to buy a shovel don't go too cheap. Quality matters.

Oh, I plan to make a lot of money with your shovel, ... the credit cut off sounds good, as well as the reduction. Then you can have the tiered percentages, if credits reach x level, 2.5%, if y level, 1.0%, if z level 0.5% ... just like Polo does with trade volume. (You need 598 BTC to reach 0.14%, LOL.)

And then, at a certain point, there is a cut off too. Say 1 BTC, for example only. (I don't think 1 BTC is a cheap shovel.)

well done !
Thanks again.

It is so much fun, watching how it decides, realy love it ;-)

I'm in the Gold mining industry and I can tell you from experience, the one who sells the shovles, makes the biggest gain at the end!

If I where you I would stick to my percentage, don't sell it !
(...there is an old saying: If you cannot find the looser in a deal, it's always YOU !)

...you know what comes now ;-)  I recommend a referral system, say 2.5% for the Dev. 2.5% for the referrer.
I would tear off one leg to make PoloLen public ;-)

Another way, make customized versions, with a different approach, different decision making, and get your share there too.

Aaand finally I have another realy explosiv idea, but for that, I'll wait till we find an agreement ;-)



And last but not least, my ideas (WARNING..you will never ever finish it ;-):

- please give a warning, if possible 24h before, when Credits run out soon. (I did not watch it, so it stopped lending in the middle of the night.)

- in "Market over Period" chart, I miss the timeframe.

- it would not hurt, to see available "loan offers total BTC" fromm Polo, which can be between 1700-12000 atm. (Because that's on of my main indicators.)



All the best mate and thanks again, cheers GB

PS: thx, for rates in title bar ;-)

..how is the minimum lending rate calculated? Can I set something to keep it lower ?

..still testing, looks interesting

It runs in average deviations. First, it get's the average of the last two weeks. Then it determines how far a typical rate deviates from the average. That gives you "one deviation." As the market fluctuates the average will change, but the deviation will change too. The idea is that you set it for where the market is and it should follow along as the average rate changes. The deviations also change as it becomes smoother or more chaotic.

Edit: Only answered half the question. If you go into deviation calculations you can set it from +25 to - 25 deviations. -1 Deviation would be low average. +1 deviation would be high average. +25 / -25 gives quite a bit of room.

I'm personally running at low average right now, just to try it out. I typically run at, oh, minus 3 or so. That would put it down at 0.1000% ish as I write this. With the current market -25 deviations would put you well into negative category so there would effectively be no minimum.

I've been thinking about a warning too. Right now the credits turn red if under 0.001, but I rarely look at it anymore and just let it run and do it's thing. Of course I am watching it on the website, which is handier on my phone if I'm out and about. Do you think a regular windows notifier on the bottom right would do the trick or do you think that maybe I should float a window above all the other windows on the desktop and keep it there with the warning until the user closes it?

Edit - Do you think notifiers should pop up when earned totals go up? I thought about doing this at one point but wasn't sure if it would get annoying or not.

Don't do that.. Or if you do, make it an option that people can turn off. I don't mind the bot stops lending, but I assume a lot of people are running it on their desktops and not a server or VM. This just means we have to check on the bot every now and then.

I would have an option for on off if I do it. Thus far, though, my thinking is that it would get annoying fast. It's the first thing I turn off with any alt wallet I've ever installed.

Edit - a staking alt wallet, that is.

Does your bot have a "% usage rate of capital" calculation?

Hi CCoinica,

I'm not 100% sure what you mean. If you mean it will only loan x percent of the BTC in your account then currently it doesn't, though there has been a request for it. I can't say for sure if it will be implemented yet.

If it's something else could you give me more info on what it would do?

This is quite an interesting project. So will be following it very closely.
Are their any updates on it's progress?

It is only browser based so far correct?
I would rather prefer to use an app on my phone for accessibility to be seamless for me in my mobile lifestyle. ;D

hey barcodeguy,

what I mean is how often the capital is lent out per 365 days compared to how much time the capital is sitting idle? if the capital was being lent 365 days 24 hours a day per year, % would be 100%. 

Maybe I'm not making sense. ???

OK - I get you. That is a very good suggestion. I'll put that on my list.

Hi Ryter,

It's a windows desktop lending bot, not browser based. The web stuff you see came about as I needed a way to synchronize a new user installation to the market. I figured if I could synchronize the market data to the user, I might as well show that data too. As far as I know (and please correct me if I am wrong, everyone) no one is showing stats for Poloniex in this manner. I've seen some monthly charts but I haven't seen average rates / deviations and smaller time charts, like the two week chart and the minute by minute three hour chart I've got up on the website.

Okay, I paid you $100 USD. For credits. That should last me awhile, as I'm still just playing with the bot.

Thanks for that Dabs. Please keep me posted on the good and the bad. Hopefully the market get's a little more chaotic.

..that brings me up the next idea ;-)  What about if you make one more window in you app, where I can see how fast my profit goes up, and how fast my credits go down.
So I could estimte how long my credits last, and when I'm finally get a Polo lending milloinair ;-)


(edit)
I think I got used to it, that there was always a red number. Since I bought some credits, it's all black.
I should get it when it turns red again...
But I'm still struggle to see, how long my credits will last, in case I'm away for days or weeks.

Only when you have time, offer additional fiat conversions, using additional sites, like getting from quadrigacx for canadians, and getting from coins.ph for filipinos, or choosing another site like bitcoinaverage or preev or even another exchange direct, like bitstamp.

Or just maybe even an option to turn that off, I don't need to get USD values from coindesk (or I don't want the app to do that actually; the less sites it connects to the better.) I'm fine just showing the raw bitcoin numbers. Maybe an option somewhere to input my own fiat conversion value (offline) without getting it from any website.

While you're at it, I also don't need the bot to check every minute. Maybe a drop down or a thingy ... between 1 minute and 1 hour? Or just make a small list, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3, 4, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 45, 60. But then that changes the "history" thing right? ... oh the variables ...

And, I'm not trying to be cheap, one day, in the future I'd like to be considered paid such that the bot doesn't check credits anymore (or maybe we early users can have some sort of promo code thingy)... I'd like this thing to last for 10 years, but if something happens to you or to blockchain.info, ... it ends. (What happens if the bot can't connect to blockchain.info?) If something happens to polo, well, it ends too, LOL, but that's on the main site.


One more thing, can we have a "dark" version? That's just a change of colors. Like bitcoinity or bitcoinwisdom... or like polo actually. They are dark green, with light green ... or even some retro scheme (bright green blocky 8-bit terminal font on black background.)

Nice. A visitor to our FB page (BitcoinLendingBot) pointed out this bot, and inevitably I guess, it seems we've picked up on similar features: extended duration loans, loan fragmentation, creep (downward float), etc. Similarly to the developer, I'm ex-finance and a software developer, didn't see the point in paying a further 10% (after Poloniex 15%) to PoloniexLendingBot.com, so wrote my own. Fun, and once you're running your own money, what do you do with it but offer it out to others?

I'm trying to get the word out via advertising, because I believe it's astonishing that we can be earning 50% on funds instead of paying 30% on credit cards - reaction? For most it's just too inconceivable.

Still, hats off to the dev for adding a nice bit of kit to the market (maybe a tad over-complicated, just give them a button saying 'Run' and let them trust you to be smart about it - just a suggestion. Can always put the sophisticated options in the background for advanced users).

If (s)he feels like it, come on over to the FB page and say hi. This is a niche opportunity, neither of us are going to be Zuckerbergs for a Lending Bot. Love to chat.

Also, I was running (per client request) a comparison portfolio with PLB.com (PoloniexLendingBot.com) and I've set up a similar for PBLB.com (this one). Up front, in the open, no tricks. Just be interesting to see how we do with respect to one another. Same game, same 'wind' (market), so as in the old tea clipper days, there's only so much one bot can do vs another to get ahead.

Frankly, I'd much rather enjoy the camaraderie than the competition. Those few people who actually get this opportunity and go for it are priceless, not because they'll make us rich (they won't, especially as I don't charge below 5btc - just not worth it), but because they get it. Pleasure meeting you, as I hope I might, at least in virtual space.

Beer's in the virtual freezer, any time anyone fancies a chat, the dev absolutely and particularly included in that invite.

Fred, I'll see if I can come up with an average day count on credits. I'll probably do this based on average earned per day over the 60 day period, if the 60 day is "full." Otherwise I'll look at the current day. I will say it will never be completely accurate, even in a 60 day sampling, as it's very variable (especially if you are using extended duration settings. When those drop in the income earned in that day usually flies up.)

Hi Dabs,

All great suggestions. Right now blockchain.info is a single point for adding credits. If the numbers support moving forward I'm going to look into running my own full node for it, and likely add a second well known API for cross checks.

Andrew,

Thanks so much for stopping by. To be honest the response I've received since posting this project has been a little overwhelming. I expected a few people to run it, sure, but I didn't expect I'd be posting a website about it, let alone all the encouragement and great ideas I've been given.

I have to admit, had I realized that there was a bot out there with similar features this whole project might not have happened. The bots I tried all had manual duration settings and always dropped my loans into the hole when the market shifted. I'd know I'd have a loan coming up... oooh the bots says it's current rate is 0.3.... I'm going to win this one..... and BAM, suddenly the market is 0.06 or something and my money's locked in for two days. Ugh.

At any rate I don't consider myself a competitor to any of the website bots out there. This is really a niche in a niche from my point of view. Average lenders are not going to want the responsibility of running the bot locally, let alone working with what can be some great complexities in settings. This is much more aimed toward advanced users, as you say.

Also, I'll add that it's my sincere hope that whatever link was posted in your feed wasn't out of line. I'm not actively marketing at this time (my only inbound link that I know of is here) and I'm not offering referrals. I most definitely don't want to see a situation where I'm being marketed on other bots sites or intellectual property.

Well... John's comment was "some great numbers, if you want to see some more competition there is http://poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/". Naturally I was outraged. And yes, sometimes ignorance is bliss. I'm very glad I never knew what I was getting into, in any number of projects in my life. The bot was fine, basically done in a couple of days, quietly tweaked as I see fit. Some of the toys though, that this makes possible, had me f'g and blinding... but it's been an amazing learning experience and expansion, both of coding ability and in the finance/potential.

Speaking of which, while it's obviously natural or not unreasonable to discuss ideas you've already highlighted in any case (like the bot itself and its principles), there might be other areas where a quieter chat might be in order. We're already obviously on the same page as far as the essentials go, and both of us seem keen to support individual lenders, whom I totally honour because I know how rare they are in general. There's a loose 'cloud' of relevant professional contributors coalescing, most of us middle aged, all with histories as entrepreneurs, techs, financiers, all curious to see how this might play out (big picture, not just the bot).

As the one at the (approximate) centre given my enthusiasm, I'm the one with the 'cunning plan', and we all know how those work out...

Nevertheless, might be worth having a slightly quieter chat, at your leisure (and.romeda@virgin.net), and as ever no one is excluded if they believe they have a curiosity, angle or interest that's pertinent, but I do obviously have a particular interest in chatting with Mr Dev... been there, done that and all that.

Great website, btw - never been my forte, thank gd for FB pages.

Andrew,

Thanks for letting me know. I had a feeling when I read your post and I appreciate you keeping it at the high road level that you did. I wan't to be very publicly clear that it's not my intention to overrun any existing bots and while obviously I cannot help what other people may post I am not paying any referrals or doing any marketing (at this time at least, obviously I reserve the right.)

Email coming shortly.

Yeah, obviously I was far from outraged. Curious, worried that you might have the magic touch to get 100% to our and PLB 58%, but relieved to find you're mortal at the end of the day, and likewise constrained by the market (go figure)...

... and of course I've just lost the entire draft of a reply showing you the comparison portfolio figures, which place you and PLB smack in the middle of a cloud of our returns, a cloud that 'shouldn't exist' since they're all using essentially the same engine, thus nicely demonstrating the effect of the state of the market on your portfolio start date for determining short-term returns and divergence. Obviously, long terms, clients from a single bot (or single bot settings profile) should converge to a single figure.

The irony is that the highest returns right now are for our retail clients, where we switch all those fancy features off and just get them in. Sometimes, it seems, you don't have to be smart, you just have to show up.

Here's the FB page, with client returns cited with their permission, for their interest and that of visitors. You're PBLB, natch, running our portfolio 'Pablo' (P B L o - could have gone with Pavlova, I guess (Cyrillic b)).

https://www.facebook.com/BitcoinLendingBot/photos/a.781142585380592.1073741828.779945558833628/794874350674082/?type=3&theater

Some days I think it's better to be constantly lending - other days I just want to send the minimum high and hope :)

There is an intriguing possibility, and apologies if I'm going too fast in suggesting things - enthusiasm not pressure, which is that I chose 'BitcoinLendingBot' not 'PoloniexLendingBot' for my FB page (though I picked up the domain name PoloniexLendingBot.net).

That is 'provider agnostic', or it could be, and I would happily make you an admin, which would allow you to post articles on your bot on our (then shared) page.

Our philosophies with regard to potential clients and in the implementation of the bots seem similar: provide a service that provides legitimate access to automated lending. Given my experience on Facebook, we do get trolls, and two providers on the page would actually be a further anti-troll measure, as is the support of our clients in confirming that our service and the numbers are real.

Just a thought, pleasure to have you there if you decide to go for it, and I'm sure we can finesse any slight differences.

That's very kind of you to offer Andrew, thank you. I'll send you an email shortly.

btw, for your customers wondering how much to put across as fees, here's a ready reckoner:

your bot, mine, PLB.com, are all achieving around 50% rates... on which you're charging 5% (I believe) for a net fee on capital of 2.5% per annum...

so:

1% of capital (0.01 BTC for ever BTC, or .001 BTC for every .1BTC) will comfortably handle about six months.

0.5% of capital (position) about 3 months

0.2% of capital a month

Or you can do it from daily fees, with bots achieving around 0.15% daily (59% APR).

Multiply .15% by 30 and take 5% of that and you get: .225%

Hardly surprising, as it's just (30/20) * daily rate, or 1.5 x daily rate.

So there you go: 0.2% should pretty much cover a month, 1% should handle around six months.

For "$100", 0.2% = $0.20. For 0.100 BTC, 0.2% = 0.0002 BTC

Numbers are deliberately 'round' for ease of memorising them.

hey you guys .... there's a whole bunch of bots, just for polo, not to mention the trading ones that sometimes double as margin and lending bots too. I think I counted 4 or 5.. maybe even 6. 2 or 3 are web based and activate at least per hour, or every few hours (maybe because of the ip address limitations.)

So I like this one. Simple is better. Was actually going to make one that isn't too smart and just relends at a little above market, but hey, someone taking five percent? Not a bad deal, just don't end up bloating it too much.

And I'm trying to "openly" negotiate a better rate (or free after $5000 USD), maybe I should just PM him. heheheheh.

lol, good luck with that one... (I should amend this to me more accurate, and not appear to undermine the developer's fee structure). I start charging fees at 0.5btc and offer retail below that for free... not enough money in it at 5% to make it economically significant. I certainly don't consider anything less that 5btc to be particularly useful, though I'm delighted that people have found the market and are participating in it.  Still, you could build your own, and fully deserve 100% of interest for your effort. In the meantime, I'd honour the dev for making you 50% for doing nothing. Some people might think he was doing you a favour.

Anyone have stats on how much BTC volume is being borrowed at Poloniex per day?

Hi All - Just a heads up that I'm going to be busier this week than usual hosting some developers for an unrelated project. It may take me longer than usual to respond and I don't want anyone thinking I've disappeared. This time of year is busy for me as a general rule, which is one reason you were seeing builds every couple of days for a little while there - I wanted to make sure you all had the major pieces in place you needed.

You'll still see builds with updates - I promise - they just won't be two days apart :)

Don't worry. I know how to make Windows 98 SE and XP still run fine. :) Although I've since upgraded to 7, skipped 8, and went straight to 10. Server 2012 and 2016 too.

Lending rates just crashed to below my minimum. heheheh.. oh well, there goes our 50%.

Edit: Everything's red in margin trader land. Something aught to run pretty quick.

is it worth lending on poloniex?

What is "worth" to you? 50% per year? So you lend 10 BTC, and get back 5 BTC after 365 days, more or less.

If the daily rate goes below 0.11%, you might get less than 40% p.a. (after polo gets their 15%, and after the dev gets his 5%)
If the daily rate goes above 0.20%, you might get more than 80% p.a.

what is the purpose of the bot cancelling a loan offer and replacing it with a new one every 1 minute at the exact same price?

Doesn't this lose the loan spot in queue?

I'm guessing the bot doesn't "think" too much or checks that it's the same price. Perhaps if you have several loans and they get all cancelled, they can get replaced with a bigger loan at the same price, and maybe a longer duration. I am also guessing the bot calculates internally different numbers but then gives the rates at 4 significant digits, and the duration is rounded to the nearest whole day.

Or it could really be just as simple as: cancel all offers, then go make a new one. I don't think the spot in the queue matters that much for all loans at the same price, and if your loan has a rate less than others you are already ahead in the queue.

Yes though should it be? Why not just leave the original loan offer there if the bot is going to fire off another loan offer at the same price?

ccoinca, Dabs

I mentioned this to the Dev a while ago, he is aware of it ;-)

(edit)
.....but keep going posting your ideas ;-)
Dev is quite open for.

Hi All,

Eventually I'd like to combine this with a time setting override and not changing on the same rate. IE, if the last rate matches this rate, we don't pull the loan and include a time override in which the user can post for x minutes, regardless of rate changes. This also requires modifying how I'm tracking loans that are offered and change that so it does better at offering multiple loans as funds become available.

The initial design was post, pull, post, pull which has worked fine for me, but as features have been requested and added there's no doubt that a smarter solution is in order.

Dabs,

Absolutely correct on the internal numbers. Poloniex shows the user a 4 digit percentage. Behind the scenes (and I used to show this on the bot but it was confusing) Poloniex uses the actual multiplier that does the math.

IE - a rate like: 0.1234% through the API is something like 0.00123400, or 0.00123402, etc.

So when you see an offer posting on the bot log I'm rounding the 0.00123402 to a four digit percent and showing the four digit percent on the screen so it's less confusing.

This is why on the Polo website you'll often have multiple lines of loan offers with the same rate. You might see 0.1000% on ten different lines of loan offers in the offer book. Poloniex is actually grouping them based on the bid rate - it's just that the bid rate is more accurate than the four digits it shows. (At least that's what I see on my phone. I don't visit the actual website enough to say it's on there too, but I suspect it is.)

doesn't seem to be that smart of a bot when it is trying to lend out at .13%, when the market is at .09%.

just a simpleton observation.

Adjust your minimum down. It's in deviation calculations. It's up to the user where the minimum is.

Any financials feedbacks about this bot ?

I am curious to know if it can really make your earn some money or if in some cases, you can lose money.

Yes you can make money. At this time around 40% a year (around 0.1% a day).
The chance you loose money is low: Poloniex exchange can go bankrupt, can be hacked, but that's about it.

Wow really great ! And I didn't find any detailed explanations for the deviation calculations, do you have recommendations for me or some tutorials?

Just play with it a bit. After every change you can scroll down to see what happens.
When you first want to check this before you start lending, then either wait before putting coins in the lending account, or put a number in the "bank" field which is higher then the amount you have. When you see what happens with every change, and you're satisfied you leave the "bank" field blank and/or put coins in the lending account.

Look at this regularly; in my case I didn't lend for a day, because lending rates were dropped below my minimum rate (yes, I was used to get over 50% a year ;) ), so I had to adjust my settings.

Ok and as the minimum loan is 0.01 , is it recommended to put more / loan or for security reasons, it's better to keep it to the min loan 0.01 ?

No real difference. If you put more, you get more interest. There is no real difference between one loan of 0.1 or ten loans of 0.01.

OK thanks. Since how long time do you use this bot ? 100% happy with it ?

I'm using this bot several weeks now; before this I used poloniexlendingbot.com. But this bot is much better, faster loans, better rates, much more sophisticated.

So yes, I'm 100% happy with it; the guy who created this even listens to my suggestions ;)

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to let you know that I'm testing some changes that I hope to have available this weekend or early next week. These are not requested items for the most part but more fundamental changes I've been wanting to do -

The bot will no longer pull an existing offer it placed if the rate hasn't changed. IE offers will stay on the book until there is a reason to change them.

The bot will better track multiple offers it has placed so there's a lot less chance of it being unable to cancel an offer.

The bot will now allow a time override (if set at 0 minutes it matches current behavior) for loans issued. IE if we set the override to 5 then even if the rate changes the bot will not pull and re-offer those funds until 5 minutes has expired. Note that this doesn't affect the polling time. The bot will continue to do one cycle per minute. Loans will be cancelled the first cycle after the time limit has expired.

Again, these are pretty fundamental changes in the code so I'm going to be testing for a few days before I post a build.

Thanks all -

wtf has happened to rates?

They went down. Still higher than anything else out there with as much risk. You could always get 200% with one roll of the dice, but I wouldn't do that if I were you.

lending rates on Poloniex are even more volatile then bitcoin price itself.

When the rate displayed is 0.1%, what does it means ? 0.1% per day ? Per week ? Per month ?

Poloniex is not well documented about lending ... !

0.1% means 0.1% per day.
So even with the current low rates, it's much better then a regular bankaccount ;)

https://poloniex.com/support/aboutMarginTrading/  - only the last part is about offering loans.

would be helpful if the bot displayed open loan positions.

uhhh I don't think a regular bank account is a good comparison for many reasons

Agreed. But when you do compare it's nice to see the differences ;)

...unfortunately some lending whales do not use PoloLen ;-(

Hi Everyone,

Build 1.0.1.6 has been posted.

I've refactored a lot of the code to handle multiple loans. To start with if the rate of an offered loan matches the current recommended rate the loan won't be cancelled and reissued. It will simply stay in place. Second, you can now set an offer length in minutes to keep the offer open for. IE - if you set it to ten minutes the loan will be kept open for 10 minutes before closing. Note that even if the time expires, if the loan offer rate is the same as the current rate it still won't pull the loan - it will keep it open until the rate has changed AND the time limit has expired.

I've also fixed a bug in which selecting cancel when prompted to download points made no difference - it downloaded them either way. Now clicking cancel really means cancel.

Finally I've made a change to the wallet structure so that credits will now be locked to the API configured when the credits were applied. Moving forward, once credits are paid, those credits will be locked to the API in the wallet. It'll be important to make sure you don't delete your API in Poloniex as to do so will mean your credits will no longer be available.

As always, thanks all -
BCG

Changelog:
06-28-2017 - Added rate tracking for loan offers so the bot will not cancel an offer if the rate has not changed.
06-28-2017 - Updated offer tracking to better handle multiple offers.
06-28-2017 - Added a minimum time to keep offers posted. The bot won't cancel an offer until the next cycle after the duration has expired.
06-30-2017 - Locked API to credits. Once credits are delivered they are locked to a single API
06-30-2017 - Fixed bug in which saving API caused the app to always download points, even if cancel was clicked.

...yep, is running. Looks good ;-)

Unfortunately we do have a very flat market, just because of that 5000 BTC that came in the other day...
But, well, that will get sucked up sooner or later and PoloLen can show what it can do best :-)

THX Dev !

PS: Market over "what" period ?

Hi GoogleBit.

A "Period" is two weeks. I guess I could make that a little more descriptive :)

I've come across this beauty while searching for lending bots but I unfortunately (never thought I'd say this) am a mac user. Any plans to expand the platform selection or making a web based version of it?

Greetings! I just started running this software today and have to say, I am very impressed! Great job barcodeguy! This is exactly what I have been looking for. I have a few simple requests if they aren't too difficult to implement and others are interested.

1. Performance Tab: Any chance of adding a tab where I can see how my lending has performed over time? An APY over time would be great as well as some indicator as to how long my loans are sitting untaken (a percentage was suggested, I like this idea). Another idea would be "Average time before loan is taken"

2. Any way to see current outstanding loans? Maybe with a time to expiry and current fees?

Just a few thoughts. Again, thank you for an outstanding product! Happy 4th!

Another suggestion that I was considering.

Is there any way to make the "grace period" between running out of credits and the bot shutting down dynamic? If I have .1 BTC to lend, it could take months to hit the end of the grace period. If I am lending 1,000 BTC it could happen in just a few hours.

Perhaps, next to the available credits, you could add a time estimator showing how long they will last based on recent lending activity. For example:

Available credits: .5
Estimated expiration: 124d 12h 25m

Maybe have it turn red with 1 week remaining?

Again, just an idea from a very enthusiastic user!

Dude, if you have 1000 BTC to lend, let's try to work out a deal with this dev to sell the bot for retail, and it will work almost exactly how we need it to work. I'm kidding, but at the end of it all, if you had 1000 BTC, his 5% fee in credits is 25 BTC, which he'll have to wait out a year to get it all.

I wish I had 1,000 BTC to lend =) That would be greater than a 1 BTC return every day... Simply trying to illustrate a point. I don't want to run out of credits and have the bot stop but don't want to put in too much and miss out on the ROI from it. First world problem =)

Hi Everyone,

Glad to see the latest build is being met with positive responses. In terms a website version, right now I don't see that in the cards. It comes with various limitations and I think the distributed model is the best one, at least for now, to keep the bot running quickly. In terms a Mac build - several people have asked for this and it's something that I need to defer for now but will certainly look into at a later date. I cut my teeth programming on the Mac (although it was classic OS so it's been a while.) I believe a version could be developed for the Mac but it would require some dedicated resources and before I can dedicate that kind of time I need to make sure the distributed model is viable in the long term.

I totally agree in terms stats and credit estimated time, as well as showing current loans. As soon as I am able I will get these three items dropped into place.

As I mentioned a week or so ago, I'm entering into busy time, both professionally and personally, so I've slowed down a little in terms new features. Those should pick up again in the next few months. I am planning on updating the main thread posting with a list of all proposed changes, enhancements, retail sales requests, etc. to keep them in one place. Hopefully I'll be able to get that done in the next day or two.

In the meantime, I'm busy but I'm still here, and I very much appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions.

Now if the rates will just bump up a little.... And if I hadn't sold that LTC three months ago....

Sure wish I could program a crystal ball :)

I have crystal ball for you: go look for the top 25 coins or upcoming ICOs. Then go look at those 25 and pick 3 to 5 of what you think is the best of them in all terms you can think of (profit mostly). Of course, this crystal ball does not tell you about a world-wide all crypto bubble pump that happened 3 months ago. ...

We all wished (or most or a lot of us) we bought a bunch of assorted alts in January. We all wish (or most or a lot of us) we invested in a bunch of assorted ICOs this year and last year.

Anyone who invested in ETH during their ICO and simply held until today ... is like someone who mined or bought bitcoins 4 or 5 years ago and held until today.


What I plan on doing is getting a bunch of fiat loans ... lending it all on polo. That has some risks though ... hahahaha.

Couldn't agree more on alts. I mined alts a few years ago, holding rather than selling, and if I hadn't I wouldn't be lending BTC today. A little forethought and a lot of luck came together at the right time to get me into a reasonable stake of bitcoin without a big fiat outlay. Of course if I'd have been really smart I'd have just spent that cash on bitcoin instead of mining equipment and made out even better. The market's been so good these last few months I even tripled the value of a "for fun" BTC mining contract I bought a couple years ago (with fiat). The thing is STILL paying out dust and paid for itself three times over by now.

Not sure how I'd feel about fiat loans into Crypto. I guess if I could afford the worst case scenario without losing anything I couldn't afford to lose I might do it myself.

This is your thread, but .... at the time I had a fiat loan available, which was worth about $20k USD. I used it to help my family's business as capital infusion. I didn't have to. They would just pay off the loan, so my name got a good reputation with the bank. At that time, BTC was about $100 or $200, that was in 2013 or early 2014. Just a few months later it went to it's first all time high of $1000+.

Could have paid off the loan and come out with $180k USD "FREE". Sort of.

The thing is, we didn't know it was going to turn out like that. I did not know. I had a feeling. I "knew" it, but ... not exactly like that. Like today, I just know we are going to go above $3k USD either 2 months from now, or by the end of the year. I know it, don't ask me how, I just do. LOL. I think we all know it. People are just finding ways to justify how they know it.

I mean, everyone knows that in about 10 years time, if bitcoin is still alive, and it may very well be, the numbers would be in the 5 digit range, and in about 20 years time each BTC is 6 figures.

As for alts, they sort of ... I got a few which turned out lucky, still holding them because a couple of them I believe can go up in value some more, but if nothing I can cash out now and go buy a small car. Now, don't ask me again, I don't know how, but some of these bubbles are going to burst bad. I also don't know which ones, just, many of them.

My only worry with BTC is how well it fares through segwit and a block size increase. If it makes it through without a split (which I expect) then long term is up, up, up in my opinion. There is so much infrastructure dedicated to bitcoin that it's difficult for any of the alts to catch up.

Can I help? its not possible put the api key and secret key,

Sending PM

Hi All,

Just a note to let everyone know that the bot does lock the API after credits are applied. In this instance credits were applied prior to an API key being inserted. I'll make some adjustments to account for that.

In terms this user they are now up and running.

In log it says that I have no balance and does not make any loans how do I solve this?

Do you have bitcoin in the lending account on Poloniex?

yes

Is it available or is it out on offers? If it's out on offers the bot won't close those offers. You'll have to close them to make the funds available. Also, it needs to be more than 0.01 in order for Poloniex to accept the offer.

Do you have a value in the "Bank" on the bot? If so, remove that value so the box is empty.

If neither of these help please let the bot cycle and copy the log and paste it in.

this is log: 7/8/2017 3:30:51 AM Getting recommended rate
7/8/2017 3:30:51 AM Recommended Rate: 0.0794%
7/8/2017 3:30:51 AM Minimum lending rate is: 0.0378%
7/8/2017 3:30:51 AM Recommended duration based on average of: 0.1058%
7/8/2017 3:30:51 AM With deviation of 0.0189% is 2 days.
7/8/2017 3:30:53 AM Getting Lending Balance
7/8/2017 3:30:54 AM Error Connecting to Poloniex
7/8/2017 3:30:54 AM Please ensure your API keys are correct
7/8/2017 3:30:54 AM Available Lending Balance: 0.00000000
7/8/2017 3:30:55 AM Lendable Amount: 0.00000000
7/8/2017 3:30:56 AM Polling for Open Offers
7/8/2017 3:30:56 AM Error Getting Open Offers
7/8/2017 3:30:57 AM Checking for additional credits
7/8/2017 3:30:57 AM Credit History: 0.00110000
7/8/2017 3:30:57 AM Credit Balance: 0.00010000
7/8/2017 3:30:57 AM Polling for History.
7/8/2017 3:31:02 AM Error Getting History

It's not connecting to Poloniex. That's what I asked you to check in PM before I reissued your credits.

This indicates that it is not connecting:

7/8/2017 3:30:54 AM Error Connecting to Poloniex
7/8/2017 3:30:54 AM Please ensure your API keys are correct

You will need to delete your wallets again. Then you will need to start the application to rebuild the wallets. Then reenter your API keys. Then run it to ensure it is connecting and see's your balances. Before I send another set of credits I will need you to post your log to ensure it's really connecting.

Also - Please make sure you hit save after entering your API information.

7/8/2017 3:39:38 AM CREDITS ARE NEGATIVE!
7/8/2017 3:39:38 AM You have: -0.001 available.
7/8/2017 3:39:38 AM Your grace period will end soon.
7/8/2017 3:39:38 AM To continue using the application, please refill your credits.
7/8/2017 3:39:38 AM Getting recommended rate
7/8/2017 3:39:39 AM Recommended Rate: 0.0791%
7/8/2017 3:39:39 AM Minimum lending rate is: 0.0869%
7/8/2017 3:39:39 AM Setting rate to minimum rate
7/8/2017 3:39:39 AM Recommended duration based on average of: 0.1058%
7/8/2017 3:39:39 AM With deviation of 0.0189% is 2 days.
7/8/2017 3:39:41 AM Getting Lending Balance
7/8/2017 3:39:44 AM Error Connecting to Poloniex
7/8/2017 3:39:44 AM Please ensure your API keys are correct
7/8/2017 3:39:44 AM Available Lending Balance: 0.00000000
7/8/2017 3:39:45 AM Lendable Amount: 0.00000000

It's not connecting to Poloniex. This could be one of the following:

API Key or Secret Are entered wrong
Save not clicked after entering API and Secret
You are reusing an API key. If so create a new one.
Your API is limited to an IP address that's not where the bot is connecting from

There's nothing I can do from this end to help. One of these is the issue but there's nothing I can do to correct it. You will know it's correct when it shows your lending balance.

I have been assured via PM that it is now working and have sent replacements credits to the specified address.

Is it possible to close the current loan if there is a higher rate, if yes how?

Unfortunately, no. It is impossible. Once you set the loan terms, they cannot be changed. The lender may, however, repay the loan at any time.

Think of it like a mortgage. The bank can't cancel your mortgage and take your house if interest rates go up just because they want to make more money.

If your loans are smaller than you'd like, I'd suggest manually overriding. However, your coins will sit on the order book for much longer.

rates drop by 50% overnight WHAT THE HECK :-\

not a very good investment proposition at these rates

The rates are even more volatile as bitcoin price itself.

But why isn't this a good investment proposition? It still is better then most alternatives!

risk/reward ratio

that is if you are not a long-term holder anyways

and this 50% haircut is after rates ALREADY had a 50% haircut from rates 3 weeks ago.

someone here has to HAVE AN EXPLANATION for this

rates(should not) drop like this for no reason :o

I know last time there was a big whale ( 5000 BTC or something about that ) incoming for lending. And the more competition....
For this time I don't know.

And there isn't much speculation with bitcoin - if that's changes, rates changes too.

The market as a whole is somewhat down. Take eth for example. It's gone from 0.15 in the last month or so to 0.09 as of this morning, with a volume under 10k. It's the first time I've seen that low a volume on eth for months (It was barely under and may be over that again by now.)

Long story short if supply is high and demand is low the rates go down. In this instance, just based on a quick view of coins on Polo that allow margin trading, it looks to me like demand is very low. With the exception of LTC, which has raised a few points, the rest of the coins on there are red - and have been moving down slowly for the last couple of weeks.

Again, with ETH as an example, I would think that anyone that opened an eth position at 0.1 or higher would have closed that position by now, or at least be thinking about it, returning loads of funds back to the offer book.

I wholeheartedly agree with brobbel in terms speculation on bitcoin. When people are concerned with bitcoin the prices of other alts rise. That rise drives margin trading and ultimately loan rates. Right now it looks like the first part of the NY Agreement is going to happen - we'll likely have segwit turned on -  avoiding a possible UASF split. As that likelihood increases bitcoin looks more attractive, people sell out of alts to get it, and alt prices drop. When the prices drop on alts no one longs them and the BTC lending rates go down while they drop. Ultimately when they appear to bottom traders will start borrowing again to long them and the rates start moving back up.

I'm betting that rates will stay fairly low until part two of NYA hits. The block size increase is going to be a lot more contentious and will likely drive up rates.

I'm pretty sure those bubbles you called are bursting...

I liked the interface and "pay yourself" system! Nice and thank you!

Burst burst... I also have a bunch of other alts, most of them are bursting too, but I'd rather hold onto them than dump. I got them lower than it is bursting now, so no problem for me. And, of course, lending rates already burst.

Never thought I'd be saying it, but lending rates are double on Bitfinex. And they give you both coins back in the event of a hard fork...

I suspect that Bitfinex is going to have higher rates for a while yet. I've always wondered why Polo doesn't allow bitcoin shorts like Bitfinex does. Given the size of the market if Bitcoin could be loaned out for longing alts AND shorting bitcoin I'd think the rates would be phenomenal.

and poloniex rates continue lower

I like this bot and I've run it with a very small amount and i never got a bite.  So so is there a minimum funds I have to have in my account?

Posted From bitcointalk.org Android App

The minimum amount that poloniex will accept is 0.01.

And with Poloniex? What happens?  ???

I know it's a noob question but... brobbel has mentioned he would stop lending by the end of the month to prepare for such a case. I hadn't thought it was THAT serious..!

Polo isn't going to give you the split or other side. They will just give you what is in your account, on the bitcoin fork that they end up using.

Sure, feel free.

I'm not the only one:


And take a look at:
https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.03.17-Hard-Fork/

So I'm not only stopping lending bitcoin, I'm moving them to a wallet on my own side, a wallet from which I know/own the private keys.

Interesting product and interesting payment model. I like it!

I've not really been in to lending on Polo all that much but I guess it could work rather than just hodling in your wallet collecting dust (not the good kind). Will try it out and share my thoughts here about what happens.

And is this the main reason as mentioned there:
"If you have Bitcoin on loan at the time of the fork, you do not have it on balance and therefore you cannot receive corresponding Bitcoin Unlimited."

Because in case the new coin might get more advantageous, you might loose the chance of owning it from the very beginning?
But in the end there is no risk of losing any coins, but only the value to them, right? To my understanding... but if where you stay will be kind of random after the fork has happened, isn't it just luck how your coins will split? What if they totally transform to  the new coin and it has half the value of core?
 oh this is just getting more complicated to a newbie like me (although I've read that other long post published recently in the forum), I think I'll just copy your actions :D

When you have bitcoin on loan, you only receive one coin.

Let's say bitcoin will split in BitcoinOld and BitcoinNew. Poloniex only gives you one of them.

When you have it on your own wallet, you will have coins in both chains, so when you have 1 bitcoin now, you will have 1 BitcoinOld and 1 BitcoinNew.

The value of those coins are uncertain. Especially shortly after the fork price will drop. Then after a while there are in fact three options:
1) the BitcoinOld chain survives, because the new coin has not enough power.
2) the BitcoinNew chain suvives, because almost everybody will follow this
3) both chains survive.

In fact, there were forks in the past, but never with substantial consequences. Just a minor part dropping off of bitcoin, fastly correcting themselves to be on bitcoin again. If 1) or 2) will be the case, I guess there is not much harm done.
But if both chains are big enough to survive, then there will be a uncertain situation, with price dropping. In fact, we have one example of this: the hardfork in ETH. The new ETH chain needed quite some time to reach a price level as before the fork (and is now much higher), but the ETC chain needed more time. If you hold both coins at that time, you have a nice portfolio now, but only after a year of uncertainty.

EDIT:
I called them BitcoinOld and BitcoinNew, because there are several forks possible the next months. I will hold them after things are more certain, because you have BIP148,BIP141,Segwit2X,BU,Bitmain-coin etc. all with different dates so even after 1 August I will wait some time.

You can also look at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2017191.0

You continue expanding my vision and knowledge day by day!

So it is plain stupidity to keep the coins in some web portal and not have both coins when it gets possible. I thought it was just luck where your coins would fall after the split. In that case I will DEFINITELY move them to my own wallet.

Although with big exchanges like Polo supporting the old btc, and btc being the strongest coin obviously, I somehow believe the first choice you give will come true... but you never know. Better to expand the portfolio :)

Do we know the dates of these further forks as well? Not being able to lend the coins for an unknown length of time will eventually lead to a lot of loss from the profit possibility I guess.

Some dates:
https://bit-media.org/news/bitcoin-news-5-july-2017-bitcoin-scaling-looms-countdown-dates-to-watch/

And you can always choose to split options:
the bigger part on wallet, a smaller part on Poloniex lending.

You mean in the meantime or always? Is there any risk of losing what I have in lending? Except from Poloniex going down somehow...

I mean in the meantime, because the risk is high around 1 August.

But ofcourse, money on an exchange is always at risk because of:
- poloniex being hacked
- poloniex taking away your money
- poloniex going bankrupt
etc.
and with lending:
- altcoin rate dropping so fast that forced liquidation don't fill the loans completely  (never happened AFAIK, but it is a risk)

You are the only person who can decide how big the risk is in your opinion. I don't think this is a big risk, but it certainly is a risk.

AFAIK there is only one exchange who has an insurance for being hacked: Coinbase. But there you can exchange only bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum and fiat, and lending isn't an option.

these lending rates are super-GAY

fix them already barcodeguy!

yield hungry market

can someone explain how the bids(demands) can be higher than the offers on poloniex?

If only I had a spare 40 Billion USD or so to drop in the market :)

I've often wondered that myself. One thing I've noticed is that the amount they are looking to borrow is always less than the minimum loan amount of 0.01. I can't say for sure but just based on observation it seems like they let traders attempt to borrow less than the minimum and the system cannot fill them.

Again - just a guess based on observation.

Yes; and I guess when the amounts are bigger then 0.01 that it isn't one single amount, but several smaller ones. That's my guess.

i set everything in ur app, how much i have to pay for 0,012 for 60 days

At that level and the current rates you wouldn't need to pay anything for at least 60 days.

is everything is automatic on that app ?
do i have to make any settings?
i just tick monitor account than it started automatic and making offers
on app loggs givin me that ;
7/21/2017 4:58:53 PM CREDITS ARE NEGATIVE!
7/21/2017 4:58:53 PM You have: -0.0000000005 available.
7/21/2017 4:58:53 PM Your grace period will end soon.
7/21/2017 4:58:53 PM To continue using the application, please refill your credits.

 :o ???

The app is pretty much automatic. If you want to set things manually you can in the manual tab. If you want to adjust how the app works automatically you can do it in the Deviation Calculations tab.

Your credits can run down to -0.001 before lending stops. At your 0.012 stake at the current rate (roughly) of .05% per day you will earn 0.000006 per day. Over 60 days that'll give you 0.00036. Poloniex will take 15% of that, which leaves you with 0.000306. Credits would be five percent of that, which would be 0.0000153 credit usage.

Of course if rates go up like we all hope they do that will change considerably. But at these low rates there isn't much money to be made.

I do start warning when the credits drop to zero so that users know they are running negative. If you were lending 12 BTC rather than 0.012 bitcoin, you'd need to refill pretty quickly once you saw that warning.

i wiish to lend 12 btc  :)

how many of you are pulling lending funds for the August 1 event?

I've pulled 2/3rd off the exchange and have them in two different hardware wallets. I'm leaving a 3rd on polo but won't be lending. It looks like it's going to be a non event but Im pulling down most of it anyway. I'd rather lose a week of lending than take any chances.

Hi All,

Just a heads up that I'm personally changing my plan for this. Since it looks like Bitcoin Cash is going to happen regardless of Segwit signaling, I've decided that I'm personally pulling all my coins off the exchanges prior to August 1 and storing them in a couple of different manufacturer's hardware wallets. If there is a split I want to make sure I get both halves of the split.

I can't say what the best thing to do is for anyone - but I want to make sure that anyone using my lending bot at this time is aware of possible ramifications of having coins on Polo or on loan come August 1st.

Hi,


Any reason for this errors ? I've check my polo key and it's good.

It could be that Polo is having trouble. That happens once in a while too.

Ok thanks you!

Sorry, still getting this error.

Also do you know the rates are so high theses last days?

Yes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2017191.0
There is a huge amount of bitcoins gone from the exchanges, so bitcoins are rare for lending. (see earlier in this thread why you should remove your bitcoins from the exchanges before August 1.)

Make sense ...  Thanks for reply.

I suspect I have this issue because I use another software using same api keys.

I can create another api key but how to keep my current credits ?

Using another application on the API can cause problems. Did you lock the API to a specific IP address? If so, unlock it and that may help.

The credits are tied to the api so technically you cant change credits to a new API but I'll do what I can if the above doesn't help. Please email a copy of your wallet file (WalletLocal.dat from the Pololen folder) to the email listed on the front of the application.

Edit: Clarification of what file I need sent.

No Ip address locked but nounce may be different than the other bot I use... maybe conflict there.

I will message you after the 1st ; btw I don't see any email on the application excepts the link to your website. I will PM you the 1st or 2nd.

Thanks.

Hi Zeflex,

Thanks - I've sent you a PM for what we'll need to do after the first to tie your credits in with a new API.

Thanks a lot !  ;)

Hi Everyone,

I hope you all had a good forking day. It looks like everything is fairly stable so I'm going to go ahead and post an update that is mostly user requested items. This isn't a huge update.

I've added a new tab to show open loans. This is loans that are currently in place and earning you fees.

I fixed a bug where table data could be edited as well as a bug that when you set the minutes for a loan to empty it gave an exception.

I've added a stats page to show some data. This is not in depth stats but it shows the following:

• Total BTC on Loan
• Total BTC On Offer
• Total of funds on loan and offer.
• Unrealized Fees from your current open loans
• Total Credits Available
• Estimated credits in days

Bear in mind that the estimated credits in days is based on the two week average. That, right now, is enormously high due to the incredible loan rates happening around fork day so it's going to show a lot less time then you likely have.

Take care all and enjoy your new BCH if you decided to claim it.

-BCG

Any chance we could be allowed to resize the window rates last hour window?
Without a large fluctuation in lending rates the window is almost meaningless. Screenshot below.

I'm also curious about implementation for LTC as well - I know the webpage says other coins are being considered but thought I would bring it up in case other users are wondering but not asking.

Great project, looking forward to throwing some profit your way.

https://i.imgur.com/OJCfAxj.png

Right now it's a mess because last week's super high rates threw the averages out of whack. Ill see what I can do though for the next release.

Edit: The table resizes automatically to fit the data. Normally it's something between .0 to .4 or so, giving a lot more detail.

Thanks for the update! I was looking for an update button on the UI and didn't see one. I went to the website and see the new file there with first time setup instructions. It says to see the FAQ for update instructions, but I don't see the info there. I don't want to overwrite the install and lose credits. Thanks!

It's in the faq but it's pretty small and not too hard. Download and extract the new application. Copy existing application folder just in case so you have files if something goes wrong. Copy these files to the new folder:

Records folder
Walletlocal.dat
Points.dat

Then fire it up.

these really low rates won't even cover the electricity costs of running the bot!

Hi, I need help, please:

8/6/2017 9:24:21 PM CREDITS ARE NEGATIVE!
8/6/2017 9:24:21 PM You have: -0.001 available.
8/6/2017 9:24:21 PM Your grace period will end soon.
8/6/2017 9:24:21 PM To continue using the application, please refill your credits.
8/6/2017 9:24:21 PM Getting recommended rate
8/6/2017 9:24:21 PM Exception occurred: The remote server returned an error: (403) Forbidden.  ???

- I've enough satoshi in my lending account.
- API key (is new) and secret are OK.
- Enable trading and withdrawals are OFF.
- IP Access unrestricted.
- I don't have another bot running.
- My firewall allow connect Pololen.

But bot not run.

Sorry for my bad english.

I haven't seen this one before. Are you just setting up the bot or has it worked for you before this? If it's worked for you before this then it's probably a problem with Poloniex servers that will correct in time. Occasionally when running the bot you will see errors 503 and 403 when the Polo server either can't reply or cannot handle the load, especially during a DDOS.

If it's a brand new, never working before install, I would close the application and restart it, then try copying over your API key and secret again, and make sure you click the "save" button after you enter them. Then fire it up and see if it connects.

These numbers have not charged in over 12 hours.

What is the Big % number?
What is the unrealized Fees?

It would be nice if the stats page show how much you had not on loan or offered.

https://i.imgur.com/B5yFKx9.png

https://i.imgur.com/euo9j8r.png

These look like some really low rates...

https://i.imgur.com/olP1QUi.png

The numbers on the bottom only update when loans close. If no loans closed in the last 12 hours they won't have changed.

The unrealized fees are the amount of earned interest you have accumulated
In your open loans the last time that pololen checked your open loans. This should be the same as on the polo website - ie it does not include poloniex's
 15% cut.

The rates are terrible right now. I expect them to raise as the hype / fud of bitcoin cash starts to subside and BTC value settles into wherever it's going to end up. It's very difficult to margin trade against BTC while it's climbing like it is. You pretty well always lose.
 

EXACTLY! I was planning to run a windows machine just for this bot but it doesn't seem to be worth it anymore right now... I am hopeful it will turn around though :)

whoa... Poloniex takes a 15% cut! wtf!

The "Unrealized Fees" should be called something else, it sounds like a fee I owe. Rename to "Unrealized Profit"

Im lending in poloniex 30 BTC last 30 Jul . Rate is 3%

https://image.ibb.co/cmm9pv/poloniex2.jpg

Is normal it still open ? , is very stranger ? Any in this forum have same situation ?

You lend it for 60 days, so yes it is normal it is still open. However, the borrower can repay earlier (unfortunately the few high rates I had are all cancelled - but only after about a week), but it also can take the full 60 days.

I try to stick with the same terminology as Poloniex. Their website uses the term fees, as does the data returned by the api. That's why I use it.

Understood. Thanks for the fast response.

How can my total profit be less than 24/48 hours?

https://i.imgur.com/IfHcy0S.png

The total profit is the profit made since you started the program.
The other profits are from Poloniex itself, including the profit before you used the program.

Thanks Brobbel,

To expand on that just a bit - Total Profit is how credits are calculated. It works this way so that any loan profit in the 60 days prior to you starting the bot doesn't count against your credit usage. I could have just not shown the history before the bot, but I figured it was still a valuable metric to see even if it looks a little confusing.

I think I made a few loans before the bot, not many.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Hi, is there any Cloud version so that I dont have to download and run the application?

Hi There,

I don't currently have any plans for a cloud based version of the product. Keeping it as is keeps the rates down and the speed up as well as keeping things a lot more anonymous for the users involved.

interesting bot! testing..... :D

Hi Everyone,

Poloniex unexpectedly updated some server settings last night and we've been unable to connect. I've updated the bot this morning and a new download is available on the site.

Please download and install the new bot from: http://www.poloniexbitcoinlendingbot.com/

Please be sure to see the FAQ to ensure that you copy the proper files from your old installation to the new installation.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

BCG