Bitcoin Forum

website: http://money.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and-markets-in-one-visualization/

What do you think will happen when Bitcoin market cap. hits $5 trillion USD?
What about (broad money) ~$80.9 trillion?

If Bitcoin hits 80.9 trillion dollar this means 1 bitcoin = $38,523,809.52  :o This means every owner of bitcoin will be a multi-millionaire and well the transaction fee would be $30819.05 @ 0.0008 BTC transaction fee great for coin that is introduced as small to nothing transaction fee ;D.  Well why would I care for $30k fee if I have multimillion dollar in my stash. Definitely I will change this to fiat currency since moving it to fiat currency, I can save a lot in terms of transaction fee every time I move my money.

Agreed that paying a fees worth 30k wouldn't really mind anyone at all , but younare surely making a mistake here , if bitcoin reaches it's max cap and price that means there is no way people can mine more coins and nor the price would increase anymore so just imagine why would someone 30k for a coin which is at it's max and the price will surely not increase. Bitcoin will just become like most of the alts who have value but no demand at all

If it should reach that point that you have stated which is likely possible although not in the short term looking at beyond 10 years, then what will happen is the price of bitcoin would have increased as much as 100folds to what we have now  and that alone does not mean countries will accept bitcoin as a form of currency as those who won't adopt won't still adopt and at the same time, it will not replace fiat.

Ok. I like your response. I'm not sure it would take 10 years to get to $80.9 trillion USD. I think it will take less. I find it interesting that you say that "...does not mean countries will accept bitcoin as a form of currency as those who won't adopt won't still adopt..."

Part of me thinks that what will happen is that the general public will use Bitcoin for everyday transactions when the Bitcoin market cap. reaches $80.9 trillion United States Dollars. Large government institutions will still, however, refer to various values (such as national debt) in their original form of currency. For instance, that is like saying that the typical U.S. citizen (8 years from now) would be using Bitcoin to pay for groceries. However, when it comes to the issue of the United States national debt, the national debt would be listed in United States dollars rather than Bitcoin.

I think people will start to use Bitcoin as soon as possible, because it's an extremely efficient way to reduce national and world debt due to how the money is tracked. There may be social complications (such as only shopping for groceries once every three weeks rather than each week), but I think people would be willing to deal with those social complications in order to decrease the larger financial complications (such as national debt and world debt).


I think you make an interesting argument. However, I believe there can be a maximum Bitcoin to US Dollar cap but still more value for Bitcoin to obtain. I think that may mean there is an alien planet out there in the universe with a larger if but more valuable money supply than the United States. If such were to exist, I think it would be discovered near the time all of the United States dollar supply is distributed amongst Bitcoin market cap.. Otherwise, complete distribution of the United States monetary supply, equally amongst Bitcoin, would be the maximum market cap. of Bitcoin in relation to United States dollar (assuming no alien planet).

And why do you think it will take less?
A 2000x increase in price from 2000$ is not like a 2000x increase from 1$.

From where will all those trillions to back the price up to those levels come?

Already the jumps are smaller and smaller in terms of percentage I highly doubt it cant even force myself to believe it will reach 30mils/btc in less than 10 years.

Hmm doesn't some country already accepting bitcoin as currency/money?  Well  I agree those who wont adopt, wont adopt.  It is inculcated on their brain and ego.


With a huge transaction fee?  I doubt general public will use bitcoin in everyday transaction, probably as store of value but transaction where you will pay $30k each time you move your bitcoin? I won't do that.  I would rather convert my BTC in one transaction and use fiat currency to do a transaction.  It is way cheaper.  Made me imagine, I buy a $100 coffe with Bitcoins and I paid $30k dollar for transaction fee.  Doesn't this look too generous of me?


I wonder how can Bitcoin reduce national debt? If a government does not adopt it or take advantage of the opportunities it brings?

I think it (the market cap. getting to 80.9 Billion USD) will take less because there is a "learning curve" associated with using Bitcoin.

I've been eyeballing and analyzing the year, monthly, etc.. interest rate. I understand there was a steep curve at first, but Bitcoin is now transitioning in the upward direction.

In the biological sciences, there is something called a doubling rate. This relates mostly to bacteria and other microorganisms. Bitcoin is like a biological pathogen (coinmap.org) in that it has an epidemological aspect to it (it's growing like a biological organism). The doubling rate is getting faster (4 months now?).

The interest rates are going to be ridiculous (up and away). Social change is going to be ridiculous. I've read the power behind it is greed (I'll argue people want to see changes THIS--right here and now--lifetime). As such, the here-and-now desire for social change is propelling Bitcoin. Given that there is so much technological output (ability to track how this thing is moving), it's growing at a very popular rate now.

Society is learning to use Bitcoin. Simple as that.

From my background in studying psychology and learning, it appears that the curve is taking the form of a learning curve, whereby exponential learning is occurring: Market psychology--people are taking to Bitcoin. Also, the methodology that Bitcoin uses is pretty legit and works with the law of entropy: The thing is that the whole system resides on Earth making it really easy to manage.

Furthermore, I've read of Bitcoin fitting onto an S-curve (source: http://woobull.com/woos-law-of-bitcoin-user-growth-bitcoins-adoption-curve/).

Bitcoin isn't moving like a stock market ticker. It's kind of like a stock but only a very, very, very small amount.


I'm looking into this issue. Not many people are talking about it.
So far, I've been looking at the Federal Reserve print orders and looking for statistically significant decreases in print order value: https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/coin_currency_orders.htm
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/coin_data.htm

image: https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/files/coin_calprint.jpg

The amount of national currency to be printed for a print-order should decrease each year (this is in relation to the U.S. national-level understanding), for what I understand, because Bitcoin is supposed to get rid of inflation, thus increase deflation, thus cause less money to be printed out until Bitcoin replaces that form of currency. If you look at 2009 to now, it appears that on average the value of money to be printed has decreased.

So bitcoin has helped to reduce the national debt Trump will make all public servants of America to write posts on bitcointalk and earn bitcoins for signatures and earnings to transfer to the budget of the United States. Then maybe the debt will begin to decline. It's a joke of course. Bitcoin does not help the state because it is the parallel economy which does not intersect with the state.

For what I understand, Bitcoin works to delimit a nation's inflation and reduce it's money supply (deflate it). Through this inflation-control, the debt will begin to decrease (via deflation).

Even this is hypothetically true i am still yet to own a bitcoin since i am investing my money in alts which is easy to grab rather than entering a high price commodity :D  I am pretty much sure that a normal user wont the investing money even with the current valuation because not everyone is a millionaire to grab the coins at this price. :)

This is an old article, from December 17, 2015 by Jeff  Desjardins. Bitcoin market cap has changed since then according to blockchain.info bitcoin market cap is $41,195,730,259 right now. If it increase become 5,000,000,000,000, then bitcoin price will reach an fantastic number, but I'm not sure whether it will happen or not, and it takes how many years?
But, people should pay higher fees for every transaction, hopefully not so much as this is another​ problem in bitcoin market.

Absolutely correct, that's elementary economics and so Bitcoin can decrease the debt of any nation when it reverses inflation and takes control of the rate of inflation.

Okie I get your point, but less than 10 years? If that happens then almost everyone in this community will be a millionaire. I know that countries like Japan and the continent Australia began accepting Bitcoin as a payment legally but I think it won't be able to have that kind of amount in less than 10 years. Banks of course is an enemy of BTC itself, I remember one time when I was applying for a bank account and they've questioned me about where is my money came from. Well it came form working in BTC I've said and they have a blank look at my face. BTC is good and it's capabilities more than fiat is promising but we will take a lot more than that to reach that amount. If in terms of general usage then the third world won't be able to sustain that because people here is just barely hanging on a fake phone and a slow and expensive internet connection.

We are not that there yet but in order for bitcoin to compete with the dollar reserve then, it must break his own limitations of value. 80 trillion is a very large price. But BTC can be divided into 100000000 satoshis so making bitcoins price to be over 50 million dollars is possible because we have no choice to implement that price when whole humanity will make bitcoin as a replace to fiat.

Interesting take but doesn't this fit under speculation? While you make good points this is all your own personal theory is it not? I think comparisons can be made between the originality and innovative ideas and technology behind bitcoin and a number of different things in a number of different fields of science. As another person who's been educated in the life/natural (medical/human anatomy, 4+ uni) I would say that your suggestion of bitcoin's growth to that of bacteria as a bit presumptive. There are also billions of types of bacteria and to my understanding over time any number of those strands can display anywhere from negative to exponential growth.

Economically each country would increase prices of there products because everyone would want a piece of the money. What in can observe too is that it can also determine a countries dominance on whoever is the richest during the max supply has allready been out. Fiats then could be bought by a digital currency and most transactions now takes place in the blockchain and banks only would have a minor role in cash stashing.

You don't need trillions to back up that price

All you need is diminish the supply of bitcoins to the market, make it run dry, and then you can support a however insane price with however small funds. Your confusion arises because you don't understand (and neither does the OP) what market cap is and how it can be misleading. In other words, to make Bitcoin market cap surge to over 1,000T dollars you just need to sell a few satoshi at a price of 1 dollar per satoshi. This is an extreme case, of course, but it is perfect to show how meaningless numbers can become when they get completely detached from reality

The transaction fee at those rates would kill bitcoins price before it could ever reach that high. What you don't realize is that as bitcoin has increased in value the number of people holding bitcoin has also increased but the average wallet size has shrunk. If your life savings are worth 10k USD you aren't going to have much use if it costs 30k USD to send it to someone.

But if Bitcoin hits 80.9 trillion dollar, I'll need only 1 satoshi to buy milk in the grocery store,
It's like coin-dust and has no transaction fee, doesn't it?
And for sure, the transaction fee will go down (in matter of BTC), while Bitcoin will go up.
Am I missing something?

Bitcoin is a crypto-asset. It will never depreciate greatly in value in the long run, in fact its algorithm is set to appreciate as time goes on. This is different as to how fiat works. One decision from our president and the whole thing can blow up.

M3 will probably increase to more than 500 trillion by the end of the next decade, which is a 6 time increase. Now bitcoin will only inflate by around 1.1-1.2x by the time 2030 comes, which means that crypto will thereotically rise by around 5x, to more than $12000.

I think whalingoutbox is comparing what we're seeing now with the rise of bitcoin to exponential growth patterns seen in experiential learning, meaning it might never stop until all of humanity is using or able to use bitcoin.

It is dubious that the price will ever get there (with or without fees)

But just like the transaction fees are going to kill Bitcoin halfway, the transaction fees themselves will likely be made entirely irrelevant for the transactions of these "small" amounts before they get to the point of killing Bitcoin. Indeed, if you are going to transfer a few hundred million dollars of Bitcoin, such fees may still be "not high" (in relative terms, of course), but a lot of ways will undoubtedly emerge to transact with bitcoins without using the blockchain (i.e. without having to pay insane fees). It is just a matter of time and price itself, and I'm not sure about the former

You're absolutely right. If the supply will increase like that the value will deflate. Even if bitcoin become $80.9 trillion but it will doesn't matter after all. Just like now in our currency. $1000 now is like $100 before.

That .0008 fee would go down by a lot. It wouldnt stay there if btc was worth that much. Also if btc were worth 38million that means everyone is using it, so youncouldnt have a .0008 transaction fee. See what i am saying?

If everyone was using it there would many many more transactions with a smaller fee.

I just ask " When will it take place?" That time I am going to be a millionare. I can invest in offline business in car wash may be or run a restaurant. That's not matter with transaction fee. I think all bitcoin holders soon become new economic players in the world. Not only in rich country, in poor country the bitcoin holder can give benefit to more people by creating job opportunities with their capital. That's a good news for me.

Don't expect that price will determine flow of bitcoin around the world or that bitcoin will be used by everyone especially at 38 millions dollar. Rather it would lead to concentration of BTC in few hands who would use it as precious commodity and it's use will get restricted to store of value just as gold does. There was a time when gold was used as money if BTC will not able to increase its utility and it's development gets restricted to price, believe me 'bitcoin as money' will also become past.

you are the next warren buffet.
very simple invest bitcoin
1. buy bitcoin as you can buy it
2. Hold for 10 year
3. retire young.

But isn't the same equally true with respect to cryptocurrencies? I don't know whom you refer to here by "our president", but if you mean Donald Trump, he can definitely blow things up with both Bitcoin and American dollar, or just blow everything up. Though, to tell the truth, it remains to be seen with which of the two currencies he would be more successful. I mean if he tried to kill the dollar, he might well end up killed himself. But this certainly wouldn't be the case with Bitcoin. In fact, this is what he may be up to right now.