Bitcoin Forum

**There is always a risk selling digital goods. PayPal was initially the culprit that made it such that I could not sell bitcoins on eBay. That was after I had done A LOT of transactions involving bitcoins. I would bet that if you do one or two transactions selling bitcoins and using PayPal as your accepted Payment method, you'll be ok. But once you start doing more volume (like I was), you appear on PayPal's radar. I honestly think they target volume-sellers to sort of make a statement. Anyway, the important thing to realize is that even though it certainly seems this way, eBay DOES NOT equal PayPal. eBay owns PayPal, pushes it as accepted method of payment, and thus 95% of sellers use it to accept payment. However, PayPal IS NOT the only accepted form of payment by eBay. You can use your credit card merchant account (if you have one), Skrill (owned by PayPal, I believe), ProPay, one more I want to say, and "payment upon [local] pickup". So, so long as PayPal is not your accepted form of payment, my method of selling bitcoins will generally work. All it is really is a system to make sure that someone cannot come back and say they never received the item you sold and sent to them. Scammers are clever though,and constantly coming up with methods to take your money. So, just use common sense and awareness to make sure that you aren't taken by a scammer.**

*This is a safe method if you only use it once or twice. After more than 20 transactions, PayPal has restricted my account, saying that their services cannot be used for currency exchange, check cashing, bitcoins and EVEN Bitcoin COLLECTIBLES (like a redeemed Casascius coin). I am fighting this because, for one thing, the restriction on collectibles is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Also, they say they do not allow their services to be used as currency exchanges. Well, all US currency ever produced is STILL legal tender (as is the case with other countries' currency, too). You know how many listings there are for say, Silver Eagles? With a LEGAL TENDER amount of $1? I could buy that with Euros if I wanted to. If thats not a currency exchange, what is it?*

I wanted to write up this guide, but wasn't sure where to put it. I decided here since it offers instruction, and I know not just newbie members check this board.

Anyways, I want to share with you a completely safe way to sell bitcoins on eBay. eBay and PayPal are covered in an aura of taboo in the bitcoin world. That's because-obviously-scammers use those methods to steal from you. And, both PayPal and eBay like the customer, so if you sell bitcoins for PayPal, you get back a nice fat chargeback.
The problem with selling bitcoins on eBay or for PayPal, by strictly sending them electronically is that there is no physical aspect involved. THAT is why PayPal sides with the buyer-they aren't used to selling digital goods, just tangible things. If you sell Bitcoins for PayPal, on eBay or elsewhere, you thus have to have something tangible involved-and if it has tracking, its virtually impossible to get a chargeback.
I have sold a lot of bitcoins on eBay. This is the way I do it: I simply print out a bitcoin bill (go to bitaddress.org, hit "bulk wallet" and under "generate", put the number of keypairs you would like made. 1 bitcoin bill=1 keypair. Then, go to printcoins.com, hit "print your own" and fill in the initial fields with whatever you want-they're just for fun-I put "Bank of Johnniewalker". In the big dialog box, copy and paste the entire keypair from bitaddress.org. Pick a design, then hit "Generate PDF of bills". If you have thicker paper, customers would be more impressed, but if not don't worry, just print the bill.)
NOW you have something tangible. If you sell through eBay, you can mail w/tracking for $1.69.
You tell the customer that once the bill is made, you destroy all data pertaining to it (and you do-don't be a scammer). Thus, once they receive the bitcoin bill (still it has 0 balance) they need to send you a message with the public address of the bill. Once they give it to you, send the funds to the address, go to blockchain.info, enter the public address, and take a screenshot for confirmation of funds sent.

.....aaaaaaand you're done!

thanks for this, it helped a lot a newbie like me 8)

I've wondered about this.  So you haven't had much trouble selling these on eBay?  No one has attempted to scam you or dispute the charge?

Thanks for the tip!  :)

good idea, thanks for the tip. Last year I made a small 3 digits loss on ebay because of paypal chargebacks of bitcoins. Learned my lesson :)

Never had a problem. But I have to say, I have payed for shipping through eBay, which gives the tracking number to PayPal (you might as well, too-its only like $1.50). PayPal is on the side of the buyer, but limited primarily to  the extent that they have proof the item arrived. They are not concerned if the customer doesn't "like" the product-in that case they would just return it. All you're sending is a worthless piece of paper-why would PayPal believe it if a customer said they received something different?

I can't even tell you how many coins I've sold on there. Usually I do it in like .1, .5 increments. Its GOOD money. People on eBay know about bitcoins, but thats about all they know. They have no idea how to "get" bitcoins. So, they have no problem paying a premium to buy into something they otherwise wouldn't have the knowledge to do.

Well, I like the idea of waiting to fund it until the buyer confirms they have received it.  Seems like a pretty fool-proof way of doing it TBH.

Exactly. So you have a record they in-fact received exactly what they paid for. And when you take a screenshot on blockchain thats even further documentation.

It isn't scamproof (nothing is except maybe shipping goods AFTER getting bitcoins :).

ebay allows dispute "not as described".  Ebay will allow the buyer to send the goods back and then will get a full refund.

Pay
Receive
Send photo
Transfer BTC
Dispute
Get money back.


Buyers have been abusing "not as described disputes" for years.  Usually it justs the seller the sale (plus expense and hassle of return, funds on hold, etc).
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/How-to-use-PayPal-Archive/Buyers-abusing-quot-not-as-described-quot-to-force-refund-when/td-p/15414

That's why they send you a message and you take a screenshot on blockchain. If the customer opens a case that item was "not as described" you have those to show eBay.

Example:
"Dispute: Not a described. Seller claimed he would fund the cert with x Bitcoins but he did not.  I wish to return this worthless cert as it is not as described.  Please help me PayPal I feel the seller is trying to take advantage of people.  I will gladly pay return shipping"

I feel it is dangerous to be advertising a "safe" method of selling on ebay, especially in the noob forum.  While it certainly is safER than do an online transaction it is hardly safe.  Even if you win the dispute, the scammer can just have the credit card company chargeback the funding transaction, and PayPal will reverse it on you in response.  Buyer's protection doesn't cover chargebacks related to "not as described".


https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full#11. Protection for Sellers.

Good points as well, DeathandTaxes.

Perhaps covering the private key with a tamper-proof hologram?  Then, the scammer couldn't redeem the coins without ruining the hologram, and the seller could refuse a refund stating that the buyer didn't return the item as it was sold.

At that point, it'd be a his word vs my word thing as far as who did what.  How do those disputes with a brick sent instead of a laptop usually work out?

That would up the stakes but as you point out, PayPal will have buyer return it you will get it back with damaged hologram.  Buyer will claim it was intact when he sent it.  Seller will claim it was damaged when it was received. 

At which point as you said it becomes he-said she-said.  The bad news is that a single seller will attract multiple scammers so while someone might win the first one dispute, the subsequent cases (by different scammers) are going to suddenly start looking bad for the seller.


Now if PayPal gave sellers an option to require the item be returned NOT to seller but to PayPal (or a third party contracted by PayPal) for inspection well that would be a foolproof system.   Sadly PayPal doesn't offer that as an option. 

If they did the combination of:
a) sold unfunded
b) tamper resistant packaging
c) user providing photo of received contents
d) inspection by third party in case of disputes

would be pretty much the holy grail.


I have heard examples of it going either way:
Scammer claims to have gotten a brick, returns a brick and wins dispute.
Scammer sends a brick, claims buyer is lying, and wins dispute.

Buyer always has upper hand unless they are using PayPal funds because they can dispute it again with credit card company.

While this is a much 'safer' way to do things, the sale of BitCoin is flat out against PayPal's policy. It may be longer to get 'caught', but you will eventually get buyers that will try to scam you. When they cry to PayPal they will see that you are selling BitCoins, then, game over.

good idea, thanks for the tip. Last year I made a small 3 digits loss on ebay because of paypal chargebacks of bitcoins. Learned my lesson

It was bad even a year ago?

If PayPal is an 'eBay company', and if PayPal does not allow the sale of BitCoin, then why doesn't eBay prevent its sale? There is no restriction at all for selling BitCoin on eBay, only with using PayPal for the payment.

If it involves paypal/ebay it is inherently unsafe, due to the above mentioned reasons.
There really is nothing you can put in place that makes is safe.

Using a well known Bitcoin exchanges (in you country) or private sales with known trusted users is really the only way to go.

I known you tried with this guide, but it's still a place where so many get scammed, it is best to just avoid using it entirely.

What attracts so many sellers to eBay for example is the high markup price they can sell for. Browse the sold listings and you can see sales with over +$50-150 markup.

Any restriction on PayPal is defacto a restriction on ebay as you MUST accept PayPal as a condition of listing on ebay.  Just because ebay doesn't kill every listing within seconds doesn't mean they support it.  There are something like 20 million auctions on ebay at any particular time.  It simply isn't cost effective to monitor them all continually.

It would be like a cop stops you for speeding 75 in a 60.  You say to the cop "if speeding is illegal then why didn't someone stop me yesterday when I was speeding?  Obviously you must be incorrect and speeding is not illegal"  :)

... and end up -$50 to -$100 after chargebacks.

....and end up with a frozen or restricted account.

Does the screenshot of the transaction on blockchain with timestamp mean nothing? You can think through what if scenarios all day, I'll be selling my bitcoins on ebay for literally almost 200% markup.

I am not pulling anyone's leg here. Of course its always good to do your due-diligence, but no matter what the method there is always a possibility of being scammed. This method seriously minimizes it. There is a huge potential to be scammed for any transaction you do on here...so whats the answer to that? Its anyone's right to think what they want of this method, but I have sold (I don't know how many coins) $2000 worth of bitcoins using this method and never had an issue. If thats enough assurance for you, use this method. If you want to remain paranoid and think up every possible "what if" thats fine, too.

EDIT: Also, I have had people order one of my listings, and then when they see how it is they will receive their coins they ask me to cancel the transaction (likely would-be scammers).

why are ebay bitcoins selling at such a high markup?  is it all due to risk of chargebacks?? what is ebay/paypal total fee % nowadays??  I cant picture spending $150+ for 1btc, I would rather just try CL or something.

I've wondered about this.  So you haven't had much trouble selling these on eBay?   ???No one has attempted to scam you or dispute the charge?

Because it's easy to buy them.  Think about the hell people have been through trying to buy Bitcoins through Coinbase, or MtGox.  People WANT Bitcoins, but they can't figure out how to actually buy them legitimately without waiting for two months or having to send everything but the kitchen sink as verification for their account.

Hmm thanks for the info, looks like it's worth a shot.

I no longer sell anything on ebay.  I was flagged, questioned, had auctions cancelled, and was forced to submit to a 'digital' body cavity search that would make even the most adventurous TSA agent blush; all for auctioning an unopened Windows 8 RT tablet under retail.  No smartasses; I wasn't flagged because it was an RT tablet  :P

They didn't like the buy it now price undercutting power sellers.  They wanted clarification regarding certain pieces of the listing's content.  Of course they waited until 1 hour before the auction closed to let me know.  Having sold a few items via ebay; I let them know in no uncertain terms that my business as a consumer and vendor will be taken elsewhere.  I don't think they've noticed that I haven't logged in since.

Somewhere along the internet experience we all got this idea that we need some "trusted" intermediary to facilitate transactions between consenting adults.  All this trust has come at a great cost of both finances in the form of fees and chargebacks; and privacy - ebay shouldn't know I like used adult toys, nitrous cartridges, Bitcoin, and My Little Pony.  Google doesn't even know about my Pinkie Pie fetish...yet.

What ever happened to the internet of the 90's when I could send a stranger cash in the mail and they would send me a "like-new" novelty vibrating Rabbit I could be proud to give good old Mom on Mother's Day?  I know; I'm getting old.  I also know that I'm sick ;D

I am PWI and I don't do Ebay.  I prefer the YOUandMEbay - the BTC way.

Toy have been lucky.  eBay is a hard ass when it comes ro digital goods.  I believe whole hearted we can thank the slew of "internet marketers" and the backing bookoo amount of scam ebooks for this.  Furthermore eBay freaks over digital items further due to copyright issues. In the end lot's of legitimate sellers suffer. No matter how you do this btc is digital goods.  PayPal knows this and rightfully so does eBay. 

All someone has to do at the very least is play stupid.  You could call it the not as disclosed card being pulled but in any case it's a little more effective for a sammer or hell even a moron to back out of the charge if he plays a victim of his or her own ignorance.  So many people have tried this.  Some are as said about you. .. pretty luck driven.  But to what end? Sure you are selling small amounts and do not feel worried.  But what of the dipshit that heats you up for a few btc .5 at a time.  You lose more then btc and shipping.  Add your fees your own seller rep and hell maybe your accounts as a whole.  That's a  rather hard gamble.

There are quite a few holes in this method even if it has worked for you it won't work for long.

Explain them to me

Great! I've been looking for a way to do this :)

If people want easy, just use localbitcoins. Now that is easy to buy/sell.
Hell of a lot faster and tiny fees and little to no mark up.

Actually, you will find selling small amount of coin 0.1 for example works OK by Paypal and instant. It's too small to bother scamming. Larger amounts, you need an unreversable payment method - basically bank transfer.

  Could you show us one of your ebay listings?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221223316866?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1559.l2649

I suspect that sometime soon, its going to be a violation of eBay policy to trade in Bitcoins......

From the buyers side where is a safe and reasonable way to buy BTC for / USD

Well, I like the idea of waiting to fund it until the buyer confirms they have received it.  Seems like a pretty fool-proof way of doing it TBH.

  Thanks for the link, I think thats a good modus operandi.
 Why dont you sell preloaded bills anymore?

My experience with paypal chargebacks and digital items, it helps to right a semi contract in the Note to Buyer box something like "Before sending payment, you must agree that you will be receiving a digital item. Therefore upon sending payment  you agree to a binding agreement for the product described. Upon sending of payment you also agree to forfeit the right to a refund." yada blah blah, make it sound more professional. Also break down the description to 2nd grade level so it cant be misunderstood. I had the charge back problem when I sold ebooks and webtemplates. you can also link info with blockchain and screenshots. This is what paypal told me to do to help stop the chargebacks for my digital items.

I usually take a video of sending the coins to their wallet.

Lot's of great information here in this thread!  Thanks so much guys as I planned to sell bitcoins on Ebay myself.

Very cool guide, appreciate it.

I don't plan to buy or sell Bitcoins, but I was just curious, would the use of an escrow service be possible here?

Its like any digital item there is risk, the key is to lower your risk. It is not against the rules to sell crypto on ebay, like selling any item the better you seller rating the less you have to worry about. The people getting screwed from paypal are the folks way over charging for BTC or other cryptocoins. If you are to sell them its should be near the actual marked price for the coin. All Ebay and Paypal are doing is protecting consumer from fly by night head busters.  Ebay and Paypal require real work to make sure everything is smooth and fair to both sides.

My post above is was Paypal told me to do while selling digital products. I have not sold Btc but is digital so should still comply as long as everything is fair.

Also we are getting close to when Ebay and Paypal may accept Btc, if they do stop User's selling Btc its just so they have meet on the bone so they can get in on the action.  It is not a disservice to give people real info and real options if they decide to join in. 

 not a legal or illegal matter here. Let's pull out some crayons. ...

Nobody walks totally bind into the world of crypto currency. The only real reason one would buy coin useing eBay would be due to lack of ability to use liberty reserve, dowalla etc. Anyone can use PayPal.  Really you don't even need an account to use it.  Just a green dot card and internet access. So the folks that have fucked themselves away from the table and have been somehow shunned by banks,  creditors and the like really have no other choice but to use PayPal for a fuck ton of online transactions. 

Other folk like Johnny Walker know this and inflate prices and use eBay as a personal means of exchange.  For one you have to ask yourself who's the bigger scammer.  The dickwad requesting a charge back or the cum dumpster baby inflateing coin for an extra dollar.

Further with the little knowlege of price of tea going into it.  Who would want to use hard earned money they own to buy that shit?  The other big red flag is phished PayPal accounts. A charge back might not come from the dick head that actually bought the coin and dumped it within a few hours after receiveing.  More then likely it's going to be Maria Ortega. From the indian reservation who doesn't have a fucking clue what btc is to begin with.

All I'm saying is pretty clear. It isn't worth the few exra dollars in hassle.  If you want to help the newbs get some btc show them.  But show them how we get it. Work for it, sell something and show them escrow do anything else other then be a fucking dick about it. ..jus sayin

It's ok to sell bitcoins on ebay for a higher price. The extra work for making the listing, printing the paper (bit)bills. responding lots of buyer emails, ebay fees, shipping, etc etc.

I suppose anything is possible, but I'm not so certain about this...

thanks ;D

I strongly disagree

It's allowed to sell physical paper etc containing BTC i think

Reminds me of how everyone used to sell virtual goods through saying "Selling poem with free xxxxxx"

Since yesterday, they dont want to here about bitcoins anymore

What?

paypal is the bigest chit in the world! worst than bank

Yep they sand an email to members for say it s now forbidden to sell, asic, btc etc

...BitCoin selling has ALWAYS been forbidden to sell by PayPal

How to sell safely on ebay? Dont - use an exchange that can link a bank account, ie: coinbase .

Be prepared for a call from the IRS if you sell more than $10,000k
(Not a joke, pay your taxes)

Thank you very much for this post. I will use this in the future when selling coins, i assume you can do that same with litecoins?

true, but at the moment I believe coinbase allows only a 50 btc withdrawl per day, 7$k give or take, good for now lol....    offshore banks ;)

Yeah,
Their legal dept is aggressive... hence the email I received: http://prntscr.com/14ont0 (http://prntscr.com/14ont0)

I didn't find anything conclusive searching the EB forums... though the whole 'e-currency' thing sounds like it would violate PP TOS. Seller beware unless you want to risk receiving an email similar to the one above + a suspension of your account?

Who knows?

 I think you'r just spreading Fouled Up Disinformation. Link? ???

I would not be surprised if they did ban all crypto currencies or specialty mining hardware. At least until they get the OK from the government. They would not want to run afoul of the masters of the house.

How long do chargebacks typically have to occur? It is a 30 day timeframe is it not? I'll attempt to try this, not too worried about losing a small amount of BTC. Will report back here once everything is done.

120 days from the statement after the unauthorized transaction occurs.

I've heard that Paypal is freezing accts of people who sell Bitcoins on ebay.  I don't know if this is true but it makes me think twice.   Paypal doesn't like ebay because it is their competition so not surprised they would do this.

I've also heard similar things. I can't provide links or any extra info, the only reason i've heard this kinda thing is due to the fact that im a massive forum lurker and i've heard way too many cases of people getting charged back when trying to sell bitcoin via paypal. Obviously paypal/ebay (owned by the same company fyi) doesn't like this occuring a bunch, so i'd imagine they would try to do anything in their power to stop fraudulent things like this occuring.

I can't even tell you how many coins I've sold on there. Usually I do it in like

don't sell on ebay.

I've sold several coins on eBay. My experience is there are people out there that will buy BTC for a big markup. There are a whole bunch of scammers too. The game you have to play is how to screen out the scammers. I haven't quite finessed my algorithm for doing this but thanks OP for posting your method. It does seem "safer" than a lot of ways I have tried.  8)

IMPORTANT EDIT

See OP

Thanks man! I've been thinking about how to not get scammed/closed, when selling Bicoins on eBay.

From my experience, eBay is actually pretty vigilant about policing its auctions.  If its against their terms of use, the auction will get taken down 90% of the time.  I've never been in that 10% myself.  I've listed other grey area items items that I didn't realize were TOS violations at the time, and every one has been taken down.  

On another note, I'm not finding the explicit prohibition in Paypal's Terms of Use against paying for bitcoins.  Do you know where I can find that?  They clearly state that they don't protect the seller in the case on non-tangible goods but I can't find anything explicitly related to bitcoin buying being a TOS violation.

If you do sell use these guys http://btcrow.com/
They are an escrow service. I was thinking about selling on ebay but didnt have the balls to do it. Basically with bitcoins there is no proof that the buyer received the coins since they arent delivered conventionally, ie the mail. Through the mail their is tracking and what not to prove delivery. Use these guys and it acts as a proof of receipt.

Unfortunately this is a bad idea.  Lack of escrow is not the problem.  Payment reversals due to Paypal disputes is the problem.  This can happen well after escrow has closed.  The ONLY thing that can potentially help you as a seller is the mailing of a tangible item to the buyer's verified Paypal address.  There is no way Paypal will possibly side with you on a dispute if you don't have evidence of that shipment. Again, Paypal will not even consider your case if you don't have proof of mailing a tangible good to a verified address. 

good information

But if your ebay acc was restricted, how comes you still sell casascius coins and bills?

I didnt ask you!

Good info here.

I Have a question, I have been doing screen recording when I am paying someone with bitcoins, do you think that is a good proof? My Second question is I see this last ebay guy who was bad reputation for charge backs with paypal and buying bitcoins, can i refuse to sell him the bitcoin?

Actually, that is incorrect. It is possible to sell bitcoins on eBay, and not do so "in secret" or by any illegitimate means. You see, it wasn't my eBay account that was suspended (sorry if I didn't make that clear), it was my PayPal account that was suspended. First of all, to answer the question of why I still had things listed on eBay is because people had bid on them, and I was going to have PayPal explain to them why they couldn't buy the item-I wasn't about to do it.

Anyways, PayPal is the accepted form of payment of 95% of eBay sellers. Why? Becayse eBay owns PayPal. So, that is the default method and it is rather difficult to change your accepted method of payment. HOWEVER, eBay allows, to name a few, credit card merchant accounts, Skrill (owned by PayPal I think) and ProPay. Yesterday I signed up for an "auction account" with ProPay. It only cost $5 (a BIG promotion...I think its like $50 usually). So, I changed my default accepted payment method to ProPay. ProPay doesn't have the restriction(s) on selling anything "Bitcoin" that PayPal does. And, it operates the same way-customers pay with major credit cards and I, the merchant, never have access to their credit card info. SO, as long as PayPal is not your accepted payment method, you can sell bitcoins on eBay (eBay does not have the restrictions-PayPal does).

To answer another question I saw, I wouldn't sell bitcoins electronically no matter what. A screen shot doesn't mean much in terms of evidence (you'll have people saying you manipulated it, etc). So, my "method of selling bitcoins on eBay IS safe, as long as you don't have PayPal set as your method of accepted payment.

I listed an item as soon as my registration with ProPay was completed yesterday. Take that and go **** yourself, PayPal.

Very incorrect. eBay owns PayPal. PayPal does not allow the sale of bitcoins because of all the problems it caused (chargebacks, etc)

100% incorrect. There are several other payment methods besides PayPal that eBay allows.

Who are you? You are spreading FUD and lacing your posts with so much profanity and just grossness that its hard to read. You think that I (a single person) can inflate the price of bitcoins? Wow, thanks for putting me on such high a pedestal! Its called making as much money as you can. You have a problem with that?

I have no experience in this matter but what about a stealth PayPal account? Could you link to it instead of your regular PayPal account and if it gets restricted, just shed it off and get another one?

What is a stealth PayPal account ?
And no,  not likely considering you have to have a card tied to your account. I suppose you could get one of those gift Visa cards. But any money you make via PayPal you'd have to spend online. You wouldn't be able to link it to your bank account.
Plus I sold a lot on eBay, so PayPal gave me a debit card and I had instant access to my money as soon as the customer paid.
 

Glad you're back up and running. Only thing I would advise is be careful with ProPay as well as they have pretty much the same rules as Paypal in regards to prohibited sales:

Prohibited Activities:

• Virtual currency that can be monetized, re-sold, or converted to physical/digital goods/services or otherwise exit the virtual world
• Currency (In and out of circulation), Currency exchange or dealer
  
• Financial transactions, including but not limited to: quasi cash, stored value foreign currency, money orders, wire transfers, securities and check cashing.
• Money Transmitter
• Money Service Businesses (e.g. seller/issuer/redeemer of traveler's checks, money orders, or open stored value cards)

Now whether or not ProPay thinks bitcoins and bitcoin related items fall into any of these categories, I have no idea.  However, due to the lack of people being able to buy Bitcoins with credit card (outside of Paypal), I don't think ProPay has even had to deal with it yet.  So you may fly under the radar for quite some time unless your account gets a lot of chargebacks.

Now one thing that sucks about ProPay is you are charged a $15 fee for every dispute opened against you; even if you win, you still have to pay it.

Why not just have buyers withdraw cash from paypla card or just get cash together, do direct bank deposit in cash into your bank account, once deposited can't be charged back, and you can proceed to dispense bitcoins, and your reputation on ebay is indication that you don't screw people.

The "Stealth Paypal account" is what I got hit with, actually.  It was an account that was funded using information from a stolen identity.  The person who was named on the account had no idea it existed.  They just reported the fraudulent credit card activity when they eventually noticed it. 

I lost $1,100 to that particular scammer.  They like to target bitcoin sales on eBay because of the fast, irreversible nature of the transfer.  I did some research after getting burned a few times selling bitcoins on eBay.  If you dig a little into the "carding" community, they have come up with LOTS of ways to get cash from stealth paypal accounts.

I appreciate your efforts to steer eBay sellers in the right direction, Johnniewalker.  It's going to be a risky endeavor selling bitcoins person-to-person, though, until we have a Paypal like service that allows bitcoin sales explicitly and accepts the confirmations from the bitcoin network as "Delivery confirmation".

does anybody have any experience selling casascius coins and ONLY accepting direct bank deposit?

how much of a markdown should i expect from the expected value?

any comments appreciated

strange how they don't accept it but tons of bitcoin sells are on ebay and I don't see most of them getting removed. Also if sending people your bank routing info, they can online check how much money you have and remove your money if they choose to do so. Thats what the nigerian scammers do. There is basically no reprocussion the bank has told me that you can do once the transfer has been done. This would seem not to be so but its the way it works.

Thank you for posting this method but and I tried to follow this method, however I found that there are no a lot of bidders for this kind of auction, and if there is I'm assuming that the final price won't be as high as if you were sending the Bitcoins directly to someone's wallet once payment is made. I am trying to use a insurance tool for this if it works that I would like to insure other Ebay sellers. > https://www.betmoose.com/bet/chargeback-insurance-from-paypal-ebay-1149

Does it work?

Betting on if a chargeback?   It seems like a bad person could do it since it tells auction.

This just seems crazy to bet on since highest bidder will know outcome.