Bitcoin Forum

I was talking to a fellow bitcoiner about this forum IRL and he said he thought it was "degenerating"  ;D

I disagree. I find it's getting better.

Who's right?

You of Course  ;D

It was never good.

Define better.

Too much worthless and junk posts. Like the one right above this.

At this moment the thread right under this one is "Should Bitcoin form a freedom fighters army?".

I'd say that's a breeding ground for degenerates

it's become a ripple forum.

indeed

and doublequoted above!

Ok maybe I was wrong  :P

I don't respect any forum that would have me as a member.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OaygYFj5_r4/UX_PGr8FSzI/AAAAAAAAObM/oXJuCA_hsRQ/s1600/GrouchoMarx.jpg

It's become more of an interest by the the ones who get paid to post online.

Awesome Groucho quote (Captain Spalding?)

Getting worst or growing & expanding as crypto currency does & more newbs like me have more questions that need answering. 

Exactly and that's the whole "problem".

I personally experienced this forum as very good and well educated (at least in comparison to other forums).

Due to the media buzz a crowd of new people that are completely new to Bitcoin entered the forum so the "value" of discussions here dropped significantly.*

But that's only temporary. I time this noobs will learn more and add value and more important fresh ideas to this forum.

And a inflow of fresh ideas is necessary, otherwise we would just run in circles here.

*No offense

Quality will always suffer with quantity.

If the entire world were to use Bitcoin tomorrow, the "average" explanation would be "It's hacker paypal made by the Japanese for drugs!"

The only subforums I check anymore are general BTC discussion, Politics & Society, and Off-Topic.  Everything else is filled with "How I do the mining rig?" and "New altcoin, identical to Litecoin but isn't!"

Sure, the forum has gone downhill in some respects, but growth is still good. There's still countless good topics scattered throughout. Just stay away from specific sections and you're fine.

I noticed that there are TONS of sockpuppets. Everytime a new "altcoin" (yeah well more like "scamcoin") then suddenly tons of new users start speaking about it, of course all newbies/jr members. And this happens for every new altcoin. Or other scam.

It also happens to Ripple threads that decry it as a scam. "I agree! RIPLE MUST BE A SCAM" -User with 1 post who created an account 2 seconds earlier

True that.

I can't figure out how all of these utter newbs have Ripple pegged as a scam, while I've been reading about it for weeks and I just end up liking it ::) Maybe I'm part of the degeneration without even realizing it.

Well, it falls into the cultism of bitcoin to be honest. Anything that isn't bitcoin-like should be killed with fire according to them, and I admit, anything that requires trust seems like a step *backward*, except that our current system requires IMMENSE trust (MtGox, AurumXChange, both whom steal funds from their users under the guise of AML, BitStamp, BTC-E, etc etc etc).

They *think* their cryptocurrency is trust-less, yet they get hacked all the time and lose their wallets (because they needed to trust someone with their password and that someone, whether it be the third party or their own computer, was hacked). There is no world without trust. It's fine to consider Bitcoin the end-all like gold, but when choosing to trust either Ripple/OpenTransactions+BitMessage vs an exchange run by a dude, which one is better? Is either one a "scam" just because it isn't "provably fair" at the moment?

The general arguments against using Ripple are fine if all you want is a reason not to use it, but there is no reason to "destroy it", and that's when you know someone is playing games and has an agenda-- when they are actively trying to destroy something or someone that isn't causing any harm. This forum HAS degenerated, because the administrator himself supports such games (supports ponzi schemes, added TradeFortress to his trust list, refuses to give a scammer tag to BFL, has millions of dollars in bitcoins for forum upgrades that haven't even begun to happen in 12 months, continues to pile in the money from advertisements he knows are libelous against companies/people, etc).

The user below this post thinks he's doing the world a favor by trying to insult me I guess, but this kind of insult is baseless, tactless, and only serves to show you the vapid lack of quality in communication here. You can make fun of some newbie's English all day long, or tell them they should RTFM, but the real problem here is people like Inaba who spend their efforts arguing with BFL customers that they're doing a good job when any honest person could prove otherwise.

Wanna know who is causing the degeneration? Look for the people who don't admit their mistakes.

Its been degenerating since this ass-monkey ^^^ joined.

Ripple is some bullshit.

Let's not turn this into anther ripple discussion. By know this stuff is everywhere, there are already enough threads going on about that. Post there if you want to discuss Ripple.

It really gets annoying.

+1 Ripple is becoming part of the degeneration of this forum.

Before it was ASICs that was the end of everything, I'd say this is just evolution at work :P

the whole forum structure lends itself to its own demise.  It encourages people who have absolutely nothing to say to spew random off the cuff nonsense.

You make a good point. I suppose people spew the ROTCN because they want higher post counts (or perhaps they just happen to be the perfect combination of stupid and bored).

Maybe a rating system something like Google's +1 scheme would work well in a forum like this. It would punish people who post a lot while contributing little, because they would have a poor +1 to post count ratio.

Civilization is degenerating

Well the ratio's are rising in members too so of every 100 getting 40 good ones 60 others some days and 80 good ones 20 others on other days maybe it degenerates from this theoretical average of quality :)

Sensibilities are becoming over-sensitive

Degenerates are becoming overly civilized

Agreed  ;D

If you look at the post count per month the last few have seen incredible growth.. as it has been mentioned the influx of new people will cause changes.
This cycle will keep happening until BTC is mainstream.  Still have a kind of early adopter community effect going at the moment, but that is slowly wearing thin as people with less ideological interest join.

Currently the main interests of this forum are very disappointing (at least to me).

Seeing a thread like this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212472.0 (randomly picked, there are plenty where this is true)

getting buried immediately, not even some questions about what they actually do, while the "Coin of the day" gets to 40+ pages.

Maybe this is really slowly becoming the wrong place for actual bitcoin discussion & news  :-\

Even though a 5-post requirement encourages meaningless posts, my personal experience shows that this forum is a moderated one. So there is some kind of order here :)

If I'm having a bad day can I "Ignore" myself?

Sorry that's not possible. Would it make you feel better if I ignore you?

Only if you used a different account for that.

I'm sorry, did you say something?

What?

What is /B/?

4chan, it's where most things on the internet start

http://ohinternet.com/B/ (http://ohinternet.com/B/)

Nope
Definitely can't find /B/ (http://boards.4chan.org/B/)

Some things are better left to the unknown.

Such as rule 34 :)

On the topic of this forum degenerating, you can blame Theymos for that in part by:

1) Allowing advertisements to be made by criminals for criminal products and continuing their scams
2) Defending ponzi schemes
3) Bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars in bitcoins for the purpose of building a new forum and not even bothering 12 months later
4) Creating an easily abused trust system that is only effective for astroturfing and political agendas.

The userbase is only as good as its leader, as he ignores our pleas to do the right thing, we are unable to make the forum a better place.

worst thing I've stumbled upon in this forum was openly trading accounts thread.

I think more of the problem here overall is simply that the time when Bitcoin itself was alone is long over, and there is a large community here that wants to discuss other goings on in cryptocurrency at large but this isn't the place to do it. There is an overflow of "off topic" posting going on. Currently there are not a lot of choices out there. Other boards are also Bitcoin specific as well for the most part.

The explosion in the Altcoin board is proof enough of this problem, where Altcoins really need their own forum now as they outgrew the board here a while ago. Calls to expand this forum were rightfully put down, as this is a forum for talking about Bitcoin specifically, though if that means Bitcoin itself as a standalone currency or the protocol in general is where the line blurs a little. There was already a call to get an Altcoin forum going (altcointalk.org and altcoinforum.org) but those projects are both dead already. I noticed last time I saw altcoinforum.org it was completely hosed by spam accounts. I offered to help Altcointalk.org get off the ground and provide hosting but I never got a reply about it again.

I myself am working on a couple new boards to meet this demand.

If anyone reading this agrees with me, and has a mind to start a specific community forum (that isn't Bitcoin itself), PM me and let's talk. I can provide hosting for new forum projects.  Not to steal Bitcointalks thunder by any means, and I think it is a fantastic forum overall with a very vibrant and passionate community, but seems like branching out into either more general cryptocurrency boards or very specific ones (mining only for example) is the next logical step, and not force Bitcointalk into being something its leaders don't want. I can't blame them at all for that.

 THIS!
 Any suggestions / alternatives?

A hidden board inside the board :)
Basically filter 2.0 lols

The intellectual level of this board is horribly going down the drain. I'd be glad to switch asap to another board similar to this one - 1 year ago.  I hope that a less dumb alternative will come out soon.

As of lately there's been a few people extorting others and threatening their lives if people don't pay money, plus following them around constantly making posts about how everything is a scam and crap to destroy people's reputation. The sad part is that even with multiple people reporting these situations, nothing is being done. Basically people can destroy your reputation if you don't want to give them however much money they want, and you can't do crap to defend yourself from it.

The mods seriously need to start being more reactive and step in on this stuff. It's getting bad.

+1
Obviously

yubikey/verifiedpgp/something accounts

Agreed.

I'm back from a two-year bitcointalk break and this place feels like a madhouse.

Time to separate the wheat from the chaff and get it back on track.

False! The lack of moderator activity is due to volume and inability to canvas. The obvious solution is allow more regulars on the forum to be moderators. When everyone has a gun, there is no violence.

There's still violence, :p. There will always be those that are mentally insane that will attack anyone they can just because.

As a participant @ Seals... degeneracy iz a g00t thang. ;D

Sorry, but this is just rubbish.

Let's avoid a NRA debate whistle :)

yes it is but thats not the fault of the forum nor the mods, its the fault of the degeneration of humans

I don't believe humans are getting "worse," just that with the advent of "anonymity" and the instant ability to communicate, it has become more apparent.

Agreed. 100%

Right, I completely agree that there is less. I don't agree that there is "none."

For the record, statistics have already proven this as well. If you look at the number of crimes with guns that are committed in various businesses, you will find that statistically they happen MUCH more often in places where weapons are banned (counties) than elsewhere. This isn't a coincidence; people want to commit crimes they can get away with. If everyone is capable of stopping them, their chances of success go down and therefore the number of people willing to take the risk does as well.

You'll always have those that are "insane" and will commit crimes regardless, though.

Difficulty of the acquisition of weapons is important when factoring those statistics
You said counties so I presume other counties allowed for weapons and so the point of entry is easy between regions
Counter Example would be the United Kingdom knife violence but a lot less gun violence
So choosing the best weapon of choice definitely factors into criminal minds everyone has a gun they use guns or everyone gets a knife
^_^ This count as an example of the forum degenerating XD
<Mean random topics XD> Not the Guns vs Knives part

As a reference can't we just be civil  ;)
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/09/walt-wawra/

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/walt-wawra-stampede.jpg?w=620&h=559

You are right on the concept of weapon availability, to a point, but some are easier to use. There's the theory (or fact?) that if all we had was rocks, people would still kill each other, just using rocks (and medieval times proves this as well). But giving easier to use weapons and/or faster to use ones makes getting away that much easier.

As for the counties, you're right: each county (which can be pretty small) can have its own laws on those things, so you could, for example, drive for 30 minutes and go through Guns Outlawed -> Allowed -> Outlawed -> Allowed. So something we've seen through statistics is that people go out of their way to go into another county where it's outlawed to carry guns, rather than going with their local area.

I agree with you my point was do you really need to be carrying a gun everywhere by reflex to feel safe
Or is the civility part of the degeneration of humanity as a whole (Attempts to bring on topic :D)
http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/nose-hill-gun-row.jpg?w=620&h=570

We could all be like this :)

To be technical there are likely other factors that account for this difference and you could just use SPSS Statistics and crunch the trend numbers and variables from the source data to determine the true averages without the confounding variables such as ease of entry from one gun zone to other or filter it by number of counties away from a guns allowed region and see if the greater the distance the less gun crime there is.


That said if ease of entry is high then moving weapons from A to B would bring more crime to B
Just due to the fact its easier  
With the exception of rocks since they are practically everywhere  ;)
On the bright-side rock violence is at an all time low since a bit after the medieval ages with the invention of firearms
Less the occasional slingshot and smashed windows

I see where you're coming from. In my case, I don't carry a gun, but then again I haven't seen any real violence where I live either (according to our PD, in my city there have been two violent crimes in the past 15 years, o.O). I do live in the middle of nowhere though, lol.

Thanks was about to cut down on the quote wall too
I don't carry a gun myself nor does anyone else for that matter up here, only the Cops carry visible guns and even the criminals don't bring them for anything but crimes. Just the usual concealed knife no one knows is there
That said if anyone wanted a weapon there's always something
Air-Soft Rifles
Kitchen Set Knife Set
Swords
Backpacks with a rice cooker
Molotov Cocktails
Crowbars
3D Laser Printed Gun
The list could go on a while

That said these weapons kill less efficiently than a gun so the most efficient route is usually the preferred one for crime and the most efficient weapon is usually the ones criminals prefer.
I also don't want armed border guards with guns protecting school children inside iron-cross bar windows
Too much like a prison  ;D
And signifies everyone should live in fear not a real positive message
(Security Officers are fine though prevent hooliganism watch to make sure no one damages cars in the parking lot etc preventing minor infractions.)

That said if you live in the middle of nowhere a tranquilizer gun for wild bears might be handy or a gun for alligators if nearby
I hear they do make a mean gumbo

Lol, it would be somewhat funny to see people running around with samurai swords slicing and dicing. I always forget what group it is but one of the 2000+ or so year old colonies used to carry swords and go from village to village killing for sport.

Also, where I live we do have coyotes and wild boars, although I haven't seen any of them alive. Oddly enough an actual city nearby is the one plagued by coyotes and such the most (probably related to the whole gun thing -- they are outlawed there -- so people can't defend themselves).

Out here there are no real laws, other than federal ones. Ex. we can shoot guns out in our yard or whatever we want, really. The downside is that we don't get city assistance with fixing up roads or cleaning up dead animals.

Well were not in Japan in the Feudal era so not much chance of seeing that but I do admit it would be entertaining watching people running around with samurai swords
Maybe in a zombie apocolypse (HOTD style) (That's almost a tradeoff he-he)
We are more likely to see some crazy person in a car ramming people like its GTA or some other types of psychological crime over there
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

On a side-note they do have a lot of police boxes in Japan for helping people by giving directions reporting ruffians, lost and found, quick access to emergency services etc that probably lowers the crime level a bit.
But like all countries they need to worry about corruption instead.

For some people a pet dog helps to protect from coyotes but the coyotes are mostly are worried about their territory, that said we have very few coyotes out here but some deer's elk and moose instead so not much to worry about on the predators side.
Most coyotes got owned long ago by good predation control measures to protect our cows that said they are resilient.

I guess a Spray can would work for the city folk
Nothing like aiming mace at a charging animal (Lover Quarrels included)
Just like playing darts don't miss and aim for the bulls eye :D

And at least there is always roadside assistance if your car breaks down.
That said road repair and cleaning up dead animals sounds like something that would grow the economy and should be someones job
Infrastructure and maintenance gets ignored a lot

(On the bright side at least those google weather balloons will soon be able to track you worldwide live from the sky and provide you internet access where ever you go XD) Even in the middle of nowhere (Or north korea lol)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Google-begins-launching-Internet-beaming-balloons-211690711.html

I kind of forgot is this forum degeneracy or was this whole topic degenerate by default

(In case)
Stalking accounts
Bad Rep
Trust System Errors
Selling of Bitcointalk accounts
False Ratings
Growing Community
More Spam
Quote walls
Should sum up what we mentioned so far  

Speaking of mods not paying attention....



This thread  = derailed

Example completed lol I scrapped up a summary there  8)

is there any alternative to bitcointalk? any good forum?

I think the forums are useful. As BTC becomes even more popular so will this forum.

Well, this thread turned into an interesting example. (grin)

As for the "if everyone had a gun" meme, checkout Vice, episode 1, ASSASSINATION NATION on HBO.
http://youtu.be/h0IYXxqwjDA (http://youtu.be/h0IYXxqwjDA)

That it did, and that's an interesting video... but it's also worth noting that how people are raised will make a massive impact on what they do. Ex. if people are born in war-torn countries, they will be less impacted by death and such and those that are born in areas where killing is taboo.

Again just rubbish!

THIS is what is wrong with these forums.

Quit thread jacking and go start your own gun control thread in the Off Topic section if you really must continue the argument.