Bitcoin Forum

 ;D

I agree with you.

I beg to differ, try not to stock bitcoins but use them as much as possible for transactions with bitcoin friendly merchants, supporting them equal supporting Bitcoin.

Thats just what i thought - why can't just everyone stop selling under 680 $ :-)

Use them on sites to buy stuff, but don't do trading and sell them for 110$ for some days.
Cancel your current sell order and place a new one with 200$ price.

If even 30%people on this forum do this, bitcoin's price will rise and it will return to it's glory.

+1

If you are able to get enough people to do this it would work by definition.
But my guess is that there are too many people involved for this cartell-like market manipulation.

(I don't want to sell most of my Bitcoins anyway :o)

first you should convince people to start accepting bitcoins, then people will automagically spend them and drive economy. until then: hold them and dont sell.
people should stop looking at mtgox price. if someone sells they bitcoins because maybe they have to, then there is no reason for others to sell too. If you believe in bitcoin and want to support it, then buy as much as you can afford, and let the price go up. Even speculating is not really good because you would have maybe less bitcoins but they would be worth much much more.

Well they can't do anything if everyone start doing this.
and if someone even dump's thousands of bitcoins , people should not create panic.

This would just create another bubble which would crash.

The right thing is as suggested, use them for services as much as possible. Every time a merchant blows their horn about doing so much $$$ revenue in BTC it raises the profile and might entice other merchants to accept it and thus increase demand.

For me a big win would be if Wikipedia accepted donations in bitcoin.

I have sent an email .. now if everyone in this forum did that, I think the price would increase.

we could drive off those dumpers if we would simply buy up what they are selling forcing them to buy back for higher price. But there are some people who thinks about themselves only and join this actions helping to destabilise market which in turn is loss for everybody because it drives merchants away. Think more globally people and not only about your tiny business that is good short term only and only for yourselves.

Well i also agree with this, bitcoins increasing price and profitability created a big craze between peoples. If you look at forum's stat you'll find that this forum became 10x active and thousand of peoples,companies started accepting bitcoins from few past months.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=stats

I've read some claims by merchants that people spend more BTCs when prices rise.

If you plan to sell at these dream numbers then I doubt the dream is sustainable.

The wealth effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_effect) kicks in, so let us become richer :D

thats true but we are not talking here about selling bitcoins at all but using them when more merchants will start to accept them. The more merchants will be accepting bitcoins then also they wont have to sell them but use with their purchases. And the higher bitcoin price the more people are talking about it and the faster adoption. And the faster adoption the better because for governments it could suddenly be too big to kill :)

Might work in short term but I suspect there are laws against any such collusion and it really will only work if the major holders agree to do it, and the result will be many people refusing to buy because it is over valued.

Without buyers it will correct, putting bitter taste in mouth of those who bought on way up.

Just let the market be the market.

it looks like you are confusing many things. there is no laws in bitcoin but decisions of majority. there is no such a thing like overvalued bitcoin because it has to have big value to be useful because of its limited quantity. and the last thing people buying stuff or transferring money with bitcoin might not need to even know its value because it is irrelevant when you buy bitcoin to buy something right away using them.

there is no such thing like short term better. the higher price of bitcoin and the more merchants the better.

you can't manipulate the "market".

if you can, this is not where I would "invest" my money.

Funny thing is: Buyers could do the same and just stop buying above 30$. And then?

Price will stay high and buyer will buy bitcoins at high, if they need bitcoins.

Is it joke of the day?

Peoples are doing it from ages dude, <-i'm not talking about just bitcoins.

LOL!

Why not?

Price will stay low and seller will sell bitcoins at low, if they need moniez.

And believe me there are way more desperate miners out there that need to pay their bills with BTCs as there are buyers who are in a desperate need of BTCs.

Market price moves from traders not from individuals selling bitcoins for cash.

while we wait (read = "hope") someone make big money manipulating the price

Greed: the one reason why bitcoin hasn't made a huge advancement socially, and why governments are eyeing it so carefully.

who cares about miners that cant afford electricity. hash rate is high enough for now so if they cant afford mining then maybe they should simply stop this. another group of people who cares only about they profit and forgets that if they lower price then it will hurt them in the long run too.

huh? greed allowed bitcoin to grow. nobody would ever know about bitcoin if not a promise of income.

If you are in the US are are caught doing this, you probably can be prosecuted.


Sure there is.


If the cost of the item changes with the market that might be the case, but most of us are paid in fiat so if we buy at $150 and then the price drops to $75 resulting in bitcoin cost of that widget we want doubling, we are paying more of our paycheck than if we waited to buy at $75.

Thus if it looks like bitcoin is in a bubble, I'm using cash because it would suck to buy the coins and then have the price plummet before it is spent.


Of course there is such a thing as short term better.

i try not sell bitcoin as much as possible. i have been doing some things to try and support bitcoin. definately if i am going to purchase something i try to buy it with bitcoins first.  the other thing i've been doing is trying to spread the wealth. Back when btc was 8 dollars each i made up cd roms with 1 btc in a wallet.dat file and gave them away to my coworkers friends and family. when btc went up to 200+ and was all over the news quite a few of those ppl downloaded wallets.  i dunno how much that helps but i figure it can't hurt.  i try not to think of the 25ish bitcoins i gave away.

I don't live in the US like most people in the world. And this funny country don't have any rights over bitcoin and they law has no meaning for bitcoin too.
The rest i wont even quote because you are just trolling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation


Just because bitcoin isn't a centralized currency doesn't alleviate you from following the laws in the country you reside in.

Well good for you.


Have a nice day.

I did. I never jumped on the bitcoin wagon because of a promise of income. I simply thought it was a interesting idea and fooled around with it for a while. I never held over 5 coins, even when they were worth pennies each. Think about it this way, if bitcoin had a a majority of users (excluding malicious bankers) that made at least the slightest effort to promote bitcoin as a currency rather a get rich quick scheme, you would have a much more social economy, take yourself for example. Bitcoin is not socially acceptable, the Big Mac is.

You dont get it do you?

Whats proposed here is basically a sellers strike. There is absolutely no reason why there shouldnt be a buyers strike possible too.

When you have got two parties standing in front of each other and one is demanding 640$ and the other is offering 30$ it comes basically to the point who is willing in to accept the others side offer first.

And there is absolutely no reason why this side should be the buyers side!

Bitcoins cant be compared to corn, wheat or whatever where there is a basic demand for. Nobody NEEDS Bitcoins.

You said it yourself, basically its all just traders. Nobody of those traders really NEEDS Bitcoins.

i would like to add that is 10x harder to sell in BTC than usd or eur....

Nearly nobody really needs shoes, but it's way more comfortable to use them.
Same goes for Bitcoin.

As far as I can tell there is quite a demand for shoes.

There's no need to risk anything if you are worried the price might go down.  If you are prepared to buy bitcoins to then use them to buy goods, you can basically take one of two options depending on how risk-averse you are.

Option 1: To do this, you just need a small float of bitcoins.  Don't buy the coins first, but rather hold the money (temporarily) as cash at the exchange until you are ready to purchase something.  Then, once you make the purchase (with your float), you can immediately re-buy the coins at the current price.  The net effect is the same (fiat -> BTC -> goods), but you have risked nothing.

Option 2: If you are confident prices may rise or at least stay the same (and can handle it if you are wrong), buy the coins first and then buy what you want with them.  You may wind up getting a deal in the end vs if you had bought with fiat in the first place.  There is risk this way, but as I say - if you can't handle that, go with Option  1.

I have done this (option 2) several times over the past couple of months and wound up getting a slight deal each time.  Bought from bitcoinstore and the price in the end by the time I bought the goods ended up being slightly cheaper than if I had made the purchase at newegg with cash in the first place.

The problem with the OP's approach is that is not a what a free market is.

At the moment when you introduce an artificial rule into a market which prevents true price discovery, even if only for a short time (say 1-3 months), that has the effect of destabilizing the market, potentially for a long time afterwards.

Artificially blown bubbles take a long time to work themselves out, resulting in imbalanced markets for quite a while afterwards.

Even if the intention is "done with the best of intentions", that does not matter, because once you've perturbed the market, it is no longer in it's original equilibrium, with balanced inputs and outputs.

It is akin to the chaos theory analogy. If a butterfly flaps its wings in China, you get a tornado in New York (on Wall St.).

This is the problem with the Federal Reserve, the Japanese Stock market, the housing market and a whole lot of other places today. If enough people or agencies try to "fix the market", all they end up doing is distorting and causing more imbalance in the market. This is what the Central Planning Committees in the Soviet Union tried to do, and they failed miserably at it.

The best way to fix an economy is to let people make their own decisions about what to buy and when, and stop trying to prop up asset bubbles blow up by ignorant idiots who do not want to suffer the consequences of their actions.

The central banks around the world are simply propping up their friends and cronies. Nothing more. By making a statement to hold on to your coins, you are, in effect, no better than any stupid bank or central office who now holds a lot of overpriced real estate on their books and refuses to sell it at almost any price that does not record a profit. Why? Because they cannot book any loss, as they have no reserves.

Artificial orders to "stop selling" have not helped the Italian stock markets any. They go on for a few days or weeks, and then true price discovery takes place. It simply does not work.

Exactly. Even if this were to occur and cause the price to spike eventually the price would get so high that everyone who was previously colluding in the hoarding would begin selling.
Everyone tries to maximize their own utility. You can't make anyone hold onto their coins rather than sell them. Everyone jumps off the ship as it starts sinking and we're back at market price.

Agree!

But it's more complicated than fiat -> goods because I have to then transfer fiat back into the exchange.


Right, and that's my strategy (I'll leave the speculating and day trading to others), but with that strategy, I'm not going to buy coins first if I feel there is market manipulation driving the price up to $200 when it doesn't belong there, because then I'm buying high, not low.

I'm not in the country club that knows when the manipulation will end and get out before the correction. I leave that to the day traders. Not my thing.

True.  I am assuming these methods for someone already committed to keep up in the inflow of fiat to the exchange as necessary, or already has the fiat waiting at the exchange to buy the coins with.  The strategy was merely to avoid the risk associated with price fluctuations.


I agree with you - given the current climate there is a good chance now that one would end up buying high and losing by the time a purchase is made.  Option 1 still is viable in the current climate, however.

Interesting, by this definition the central bank always violated Section 9(a)(2)[1] of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, they have been artificially maintaining the price of MBS and (indirectly) support those MBS related securites for years

Maybe it was central bank who invented those acts and itself is not regulated under the same act

There are enough players in bitcoin now that I don't think you could manipulate the price that easily with a forum post.  Want the price to jump?  Your best bet isn't to tell people to stop selling, but to go and persuade merchants to accept bitcoin.  The holy grail would be if Amazon.com started accepting bitcoin, but that would probably take a lot of persuasion.