Bitcoin Forum

It started like this
A japanese guy bought paypal funds from me with his bitcoins through bitmit.
After a couple of hours paypal wanted to investigate the funds to make sure it wasn't use for anything illegal which is normal and happens all the time.
I told the japanese guy to tell them that he sold me anything so that paypal can remove hold of the funds which always works with any problems from this issue.
Instead the guy told paypal he sold bitcoins for these paypal funds .....
In the next day paypal shut-down 7 of my paypal accounts that had over 60k$ in them and they won't give me back to it.
I have warned the guy before that its illegal to exchange bitcoins for paypal and told me its allowed in japan WHICH IS A BIG LIE.
Now the guy want to sue me for not giving him back the coins,I don't know if he has a valid reason.
I have lost 60k$ because of him but I can't sue him because my funds were used for illegal exchanges so I can't get it back right ?
And it seems he can sue me for not giving him back his coins in an illegal exchange too ?.

And bitmit co-operated with that kid and gave him MY FULL INFORMATION/ADDRESS/EMAIL/IP.
Thats enough to sue bitmit for leaking my private information to a normal customer right ?

I am already talking to my lawyer,but wanted to share this with everyone to be careful with bitmit.
The japanese guy bitmit name is itsusony so be careful.

"I am already talking to my lawyer" lol...did you guys discuss it over a snackpack at the cafeteria?

Cellphone ?

Look bro first this that you did wrong is making 7 Paypal accounts, second mistake you did is storing 60k on paypal (who the hell stores that much money on pp).

If your accounts were verified with real info you will get money back otherwise not.

Bitmit did right thing by giving your details to him as some people sell stolen/illegal PP funds.

First thing
Bitmit has no rights to give full info to anyone without an FBI or a court order.
Read law a little bit more

Second thing,my paypal accounts were not limited,they were SHUT DOWN.
And I store 60k on my accounts because I been working in e-currency exchange for 2 years already.
So sometimes some people want big exchanges,it is not my fault that he knew exchanging paypal to bitcoins was illegal and he still told paypal he sold bitcoins ?

By the way,do you even know that FBI/NPA/Interpol or what ever it is in his country wouldn't help him get his funds back even if it was stole pp funds ? because he gave his bitcoins for an illegal exchange ? and that bitcoins can't be refunded even by the police ?

Do you think if it was possible to get money back for such exchange I wouldn't have sued him for getting paypal close my accounts ?
And all of my accounts were for me and my partners in business.
I didn't own them all alone,we are more than one in a small online corporate that exchanges between electronic currencies on exchangemoneyforums.

You know law's are different in different countries?
and read bitmit's TOS little bit more :D

My paypal account also got permanently closed when i received a fraud payment but i was able to get my funds after 6 months.

You said you are doing currency exchange from 2 years and telling me to read law then why fuck you were doing something which is against paypals TOS ? and why the heck you did large deals with a foreigner that doesn't understands english properly?  


Ps: Don't try to teach me, i am also doing currency exchanges from many years and i know TOS and other legal stuff better then you.

Now stop crying and talk to your lawyer.

lol so you are from EMF? what's your username?

Who said it will help him to get money back?
I said bitmit did right thing by giving info.

ًWe all know that its illegal but we still do it to make profit.

Why would he tell paypal that he sold bitcoins,its like trying to get both of us busted.
It just makes non-sense right ?

Sadly I am not allowed to reveal my name and my partners since we keep bitcoin away from EMF
So that other currencies we deal with wouldn't be affected with people in here.
But 3 of my partners are very popular there with threads of over 1k+ replies.
2 of them has been in this business for 3 years already.

And I guess you are right,maybe its my fault I dealt with a foreigner that doesn't understand English :/
I thought he could have used his brain to know he shouldn't have told paypal about bitcoins but he dealt with me for 7k$,so I didn't think he was dumb enough to do it ....

I don't really care much that bitmit leaked my information as much as the nature of it.

Bitmit is allowed to leak my Name/ip/phone maybe such info that are not much private.
But leak my full address ?
Thats something different.

Well yeah he did stupidity by not doing what you told him to do.
I know everyone on EMF, Blackshadow,sahib,Dr.exchanger,yasir,rishabh etc and i do exchanges there also.

Exchanging Bitcoins for PayPal funds is not illegal.  It may be against PayPal terms of service but then again so is having 6 PayPal accounts.
As for bitmit doing something illegal have you read their terms of service, you know the terms you agreed to upon signing up.

Didn't you know the risks when trading Bitcoin with PP?

Also, I'm not sure where Bitmit is hosted but it'll be down to the country's laws as to whether releasing your information is illegal.

Sure, ethically it's bad but legally there might be no issue.

To be fair, it's a bit of a dodgy business that just gives away it's customer's information on request.

Are you sure paypal is not just freezing the money for six months?

As for banning, yes it sux to get banned for life. Even people in your household won't be that easy to open another paypal account. With paypal gone so is your ebay account.

Use google checkout or dwolla for future/other transaction.

Well yah they are all good people and they are all my friends.


The 6 accounts are not owned be me as I stated,we own it me and my partners.
When 1 of us has the funds ordered by any customer he sends it and who ever got him the customer takes a portion of the fees.
I don't think you have a valid point about the TOS,I don't see anywhere in the TOS that says they would leak my info if someone requested it ?


I knew the risks,but would you ever think someone would trade with you and tell PP about bitcoin ?
Its more like he was trying to throw his own money in the trash but he had to take me with him.
It just wouldn't make any sense and nobody would have doubted it.
About bitmit,I will just give it a shot,I don't know where it is hosted too.


I know what you mean
You are talking about the accounts being limited and money would be able to withdraw after 180 days.
But this is a different issue sadly,since they have detected all of me and my friend's accounts with the same issue,they considered it as an insisting action to break their TOS so they did what they did.
We already exchange in many other e-currencies like Ukash/PSC/PM/MB/Neteller and more but we are sad for our loss.
Since the loss of our Liberty wasn't so much far from now,things getting worse :/

Is it even legal for them to confiscate money? Maybe you should sue paypal rather than bitmit.

Sadly,it seems that according to their own TOS they have the rights to close my account at any time without notice.

Paypal always gives money back after 180 days, unless funds are hacked/stolen.

They can close account but they can not seize your money for lifetime.
Call paypal and ask them.

Ps: I found your EMF account, you have only 2 feedback there man.

Can't see it being legal for them to keep your money though.

Perhaps he didn't know. It's possible his English wasn't good enough to understand what you meant by


I had to read that a few times before I realised what you meant. I'm not saying you're to blame - just that he might not have understood what you meant nor the repercussions of saying it was Bitcoin he was selling.

Well for my account it started with being limited
I uploaded my full documents to them and surprisingly it was refused for no reason.
I made a research and they say if they refuse your documents,then the account is toast and I should start a new fresh account ....
I hoped it was just 180 days limitation and then I can withdraw money to my bank :(

You can not start fresh account lol. It is a life ban.


If you find a way to start another account, let me know so I can start selling on ebay again.

Sadly,he understands English.
Sadly too,he told me before we deal that its legal to trade paypal for bitcoins in JAPAN.
So it doesn't look like he doesn't understand English,I have told him that its not legal like he thought and even if it was legal in his country its not legal in mine.
I have told him exactly in the message when paypal asked for the source of the funds "Tell them that it was for a diablo 3 item or anything that wouldn't cause problems,DON'T tell them that it was for bitcoins because its illegal"
And he never listened to me thinking that its legal in Japan to trade bitcoins for PP ....

I heard you can use pp again but in stealth,which is something I wouldn't consider.
Not after what I have seen from them

Looks like he only has himself to blame if PP hold onto his funds.

As for your funds I guess you'll likely need to wait at least 90 days till your funds clear although I have no experience of how long they can keep a hold of your money.

Holding onto the funds is normal when we exchange large amounts with new customers.
We just make the customer tell paypal he sold something and we confirm it with paypal and they release the funds.
But he made it impossible sadly.

Even after all this,he has been constantly blaming me for 3 days,even bitmit assist him and give him my full private info when it was his fault.

Closing an account is one thing, confiscating funds without due process is a whole different ball of wax.

Frozen or banned it doesn't matter, PayPal can't and won't just "keep your moniez".

The funds will either:
a) go to law enforcement based on a seizure warrant (highly unlikely in this case)
b) be (partially) used to cover chargebacks and refunds (hopefully your other prior recent customers don't learn of this and decide to get a risk free "refund")
c) be refunded to "you" after 180 days (well the name on the account hopefully it is real)

If these are really your accounts in your names (or your "partners" names) then you should receive the net balance (minus any chargebacks and reversals) in 180 days.  If banned and not just frozen you will never be able to open a new account again.  The "good news" is that forming a corporation or LLC is pretty trivial (some states even allow you to do it online) so you can always open an account in the name of a business (LLC or corporation) where you are the sole member/owner/shareholder. ;) 

Not sure how he can blame you if you already explained the consequences of telling them it was for Bitcoin.

He said it was legal for him so you should tell him to take it up with PP. He can't hold you responsible for his own beliefs.

So, your customer money is in your paypal account now and you are not able to refund him the money?

Is it because you are using stealth account and not able to prove your identity to paypal?

No
Until now paypal is holding the funds and won't refund to my paypal even.

I think the confusion is from incorrectly using the term "illegal".  It is legal and it is also legal for PayPal to freeze transactions and/or accounts that are in violation of their TOS.

What are you trying to prove ?
The word "legal" doesn't match the sentence "bitcoin and paypal exchange"

Please cite the law which makes selling Bitcoins by PayPal funds a criminal activity.  Cite the exact statute.  Not your belief, or something your friend told you, or PayPal's TOS (which are not criminal statutes).  You can't because (and apparently this is a very difficult concept for you to grasp) IT IS NOT ILLEGAL.  Period.

Now PayPal's network is the private property of the PayPal corporation and as such they can set rules on their use of their property.  This is no different than you have rules on what you let go on in your house (like never inviting D&T to dinner).  You broke PayPal's rule and got caught and PayPal has taken action against you.  However violating PayPal's TOS isn't in itself a crime.  

People buying and selling bitcoin is pretty much considered money laundry by the government. And people usually don't report these activities when filing tax. Tax fraud is a pretty big offense in the US.

You are talking about the meaning of "legal" "illegal" according to law
We are talking about the word "legal" "illegal" according to paypal,don't mix it up.

Does anyone know what happens if a fake identity were used? I don't see how paypal would return any money to a false identity. Not that they would keep it forever, but it could be tied up in court for years, right?

Stopped reading right here

and started laughing.   :D

PayPal is part of the evil bankster mafia's satanic monopoly.

all who support them deserve their eternity (or 180 days, whichever comes first) of torment.

My documents were not fake and they still didn't approve it.

I have read a similar problem with someone and he was told that the account is gone forever after they refuse the documents,even though he gave them valid documents too.

Here is the source of a similar problem to mine http://www.aspkin.com/forums/paypal-limited/40236-paypal-shut-me-down-ever.html

One of the upper expert people replied saying this

I'm not trying speaking for DeathAndTaxes (lord knows he's more eloquent than me) but I think all he's trying to say is that the Japanese guy has (correctly in my mind) misunderstood your intent when you said 'illegal' because it isn't 'illegal' to buy Bitcoin, it's just against PP's rules.

That being the case, your buyer is actually correct, it's not illegal so that's why he felt he could tell PP, not realising it's against PP ToS.

As long as you have legal documents that prove you are who the account says you are then I can't see them being able to hold your money after 180 days, especially if you pay a few hundred dollars to get a lawyers letter written with a threat of legal action.

You just need to wait 180 days though.

I think I will see what happens after 180 days.

Even if I could withdraw it,he totally ruined my business sadly.
I won't be able to make anymore exchanges for people that need paypal for 180 days.

Thanks everyone for opinions and help :)

PayPal is awful and OP knew the risks of using it but blaming him for using 'a criminal enterprise' is a bit harsh.

THIS PERSON IS A SCAMMER!

SOLD HIM BTC LAST MONTH... AND GOT PAYPAL CHARGEBACKS!!!

HIS BITMIT ACCOUNTS:

https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/42018-paypal-500-no-fee-escrow

https://www.bitmit.net/en/user/elbashadodo

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=elbashadodo

Take a look at:


itsusony sold you a ton of bitcoins...

and it is obvious that the paypal accounts you use are stolen/hacked or whatever....

I am one of your victims too... I just don't know how you sleep with all your victims suffering...

It's not.  They freeze your money for 60 days and then send you a check.

If this guy had 7 accounts though, odds are one or more of them were stolen/hacked.  So no, he won't be getting any money back./

bitmit is right in this case.. your personal info is not private

private info is things like your password
personal info is things like your address