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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: sergio on July 03, 2011, 10:02:48 AM



Title: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 03, 2011, 10:02:48 AM
This is the scammer info:
 Buyer
John Binns
jabgasrm
johngeljen@tiscali.co.uk   Note to seller
bitcoin address: 1KmouQEKQ5b3bDYARu3RtMAFo4o3CPad5K
Shipping address - confirmed
John Binns
141 Blackmoor Drive, West Derby
Liverpool, Merseyside
L129EE
United Kingdom
   Shipping details
You haven’t added any shipping details.

This scammer has been scamming bitcoin ebay sellers, based on the transaction logs he has scammed a total of 45 BTC
http://blockexplorer.com/address/1KmouQEKQ5b3bDYARu3RtMAFo4o3CPad5K

On june 28 he filled a charge against an ebay seller btcmania, then on july 1 get paypal payment from him, the next day he files a charge back.

Paypal claims in their email that his account got hacked, but I say paypal is lying, since on june 28 there was already a chargeback, it is clear that only the legitimate user can file a chargeback, so it is very unlikely  that 3 days later he gets hacked again.

Why is paypal lying that his account got hacked on july1, and hiding the fact that the scammer filled a chargeback on june 28 to another seller.
There is another seller tinchen-hro  that was also scammed by this very same person.

I am filling a dispute on the charge back with paypal, I would like to know who are the other ebay seller that got scammed by this guy.

Problems with ebay, it is not possible to leave negative feedback to buyers, so the feedback system is corrupt and therefore useless, it use to work a few years ago, but ebay broke it, so if a buyer can have only positive feedback, there is no point in feedbacks, every buyer gets 100% positive regardless of how corrupt they are.

Another problem with ebay, the only allow paypal as the only payment system, there are very few exceptions such as the porn area, and you get screwed because then the listing do not show with their search engine, under 99% of the categories paypal is by force the only option of payment with ebay.

So for all ebay sellers that have been scammed by paypal and this guy let organize, lets dispute all this chargebacks.
I only lost 1 BTC, but other lost 44 BTC, and we should try to put an stop to paypal fraud.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: gigabytecoin on July 03, 2011, 10:58:02 AM
I hear you man.

I would suggest you do not sell through ebay/paypal because of that possibility.

It is WAY too easy for me to log into my paypal account through TOR... pay you... and claim I was hacked. Simple as that.

Just don't do it, and you will be fine from now on!


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Grant on July 03, 2011, 11:10:22 AM

we should try to put an stop to paypal fraud.


You can't stop something that is almost by-design optimized for fraud. Stop using scampal.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 03, 2011, 11:18:24 AM
update:
I got an email from a seller that was scammed also by this guy, it appears that he is going by different names, according to an email I got he also goes by the name of  "the-mullet09" under ebay.

It is clear that his account was not hacked, and sellers are being screwed by ebay and paypal.

Paypal is claiming his account was hacked which is clearly false.

The bitcoin delivery can be proven using blockexplorer, and that the account was not hacked it is simply only the legitimate user can file a chargeback, so unless he is getting hacked every day, it is a clear sign of fraud, not only by the scammer, but by paypal by protecting the scammer against all evidence, and ebay for allowing this to happen.

Several ebay listing is which the scammer comited fraud have been removed by ebay:
This listing (110709762773) has been removed, or this item is not available
This listing (220807321393) has been removed, or this item is not available
This listing (260808173674) has been removed, or this item is not available.

    *
          o Please check that you've entered the correct item number
          o Listings that have ended 90 or more days ago will not be available for viewing.

But all this bitcoin related listing that have been removed by ebay are recent do not have more than 90 days, I feel paypal   is trying on purpose trying to screw sellers using bitcoins, and covering up the fraud.

How could paypal claim that the account was hacked on july 1, when  john binns had a charge back for the same reason on june 28 against another seller., that is fraud being done by paypal by allowing this fraud to take place with their knowledge.

What makes this case special is that it can be proven that the account was not hacked, and paypal is saying it was hacked which makes no sence since only a few days earlier there was a chargeback by this scammer.

Yes I agree with all the posts here that we should stop using paypal, the problem is that ebay has a monopoly with paypal and does not allow other payment methods.

One more good reason to use bitcoins.



Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 03, 2011, 11:25:50 AM
I have been scammed by him too. I though he had hacked into peoples eBay/PayPal accounts and then just bought the non-reversible bitcoins with their money...

Please let me know the progress, I have lost ~10BTC FWIW.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 03, 2011, 11:28:27 AM
update:
I got an email from a seller that was scammed also by this guy, it appears that he is going by different names, according to an email I got he also goes by the name of  "the-mullet09" under ebay.
I also got scammed by the-mullet09 and a couple of other IDs. Are we sure that he hasn't just hacked into peoples eBay/PayPal accounts...


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 03, 2011, 11:36:53 AM
On june 28 he filled a charge against an ebay seller btcmania, then on july 1 get paypal payment from him, the next day he files a charge back.
btcmania bought a couple of bitcoins from me (although he hasn't paid yet)  ???


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 03, 2011, 11:45:20 AM
We are sure of that here is that proof:

under the ebay  id jabgasrm on june 28 he files a chargeback against another seller btcmania, so paypal is aware of the situation since it only makes sense that only a legitimate user will file a chargeback, but then on July 1 he buys bitcoins from me, and then on july 2 he files for a chargeback.

Could a hacker file for a chargeback on june 28? I do not think so, it would not make any sence.

Paypal tells me on july 2 that his account was hacked. that makes no sense, since paypal told another seller that his account was hacked on june 28, and he is also fighting the chargebacks. could the account get hacked on a daily basis, I do not think so.
Why is paypal covering up this scammer and screwing the selers? does not make sense to me, under than paypal being a very bad service that fails to investigate the claims.

If someone that got burnt by paypal wants to use me as a reference feel free to do so, my ebay id is member67232 and my dispute with paypal case number is PP-001-362-340-429.

Maybe it could be a good idea to collect all the case numbers together when filling a dispute, since it is the same scammer screwing all of us.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 03, 2011, 12:00:31 PM
We are sure of that here is that proof:
under the ebay  id jabgasrm on june 28 he files a chargeback against another seller btcmania, so paypal is aware of the situation since it only makes sense that only a legitimate user will file a chargeback, but then on July 1 he buys bitcoins from me, and then on july 2 he files for a chargeback.
Not exactly proof, but nevertheless very damming evidence.

Another thing that concerns me... I was selling bitcoins for the past few days on eBay, at very high prices (~$40/BTC) and yet they were being snapped up almost instantly. The accounts that were buying them were quiet generic and well established - just the sort of account that could be hacked IMO. I am scared that these have been hacked and so I'm holding off sending the bitcoins for the time being...


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Djao on July 03, 2011, 12:15:07 PM
hey, I would like to buy 50-100 BTC via Paypal from you, seems like you are a trustworthy seller. I'll pay 40 USD per BTC.  ::)

ITT: greedy people getting scammed by other greedy people


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 03, 2011, 12:19:50 PM
ITT: greedy people getting scammed by other greedy people
I set an inflated price to see whether people were really that desperate to get hold of bitcoins legitimately or whether a scam was going on. It was more curiosity than greed.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: rabit on July 03, 2011, 12:25:11 PM
It is WAY too easy for me to log into my paypal account through TOR... pay you... and claim I was hacked. Simple as that.

If you log in to your PayPal account through TOR and try to make a transaction, then your account will be frozen or you arent even able to log in because most payment sites block TOR exit nodes :P
PayPal thefts usually use botnet zombies for stealing from PayPal. 


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: aral on July 03, 2011, 12:33:45 PM
ITT: greedy people getting scammed by other greedy people
I set an inflated price to see whether people were really that desperate to get hold of bitcoins legitimately or whether a scam was going on. It was more curiosity than greed.

Yes, you were curious to see whether you could rip some people off but you ended up getting worked over by someone else.  My little violin is playing hearts and flowers just for you!


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 03, 2011, 12:39:18 PM
ITT: greedy people getting scammed by other greedy people
I set an inflated price to see whether people were really that desperate to get hold of bitcoins legitimately or whether a scam was going on. It was more curiosity than greed.

Yes, you were curious to see whether you could rip some people off but you ended up getting worked over by someone else.  My little violin is playing hearts and flowers just for you!
Lol you have a warped view on "ripping someone off" and FWIW I have actually made money selling bitcoins on eBay so not that bothered about the scammer/karma.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: airdata on July 03, 2011, 12:48:56 PM
Has paypal offered to make things right ?   They are supposed to have seller protection... That and eBay/paypal are separate. If both logins were hacked I'd have to assume negligence on his part. 


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Littleshop on July 03, 2011, 01:38:24 PM
Has paypal offered to make things right ?   They are supposed to have seller protection... That and eBay/paypal are separate. If both logins were hacked I'd have to assume negligence on his part. 

While I do not feel that paypal offers any real 'seller protection', seller protection in disputes is provided by using shipping tracker numbers.  If you do not ship, you get no protection. 


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: bitcoinTrader on July 03, 2011, 02:24:19 PM
I dont know even after so many incidents, why people still use paypal!
Just aviod paypal. Period


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: airdata on July 03, 2011, 02:42:03 PM
proof of shipping could be provided through block explorer and email correspondence.  whether or not paypal would actually do anything about that is another story.

But if he told paypal his account was hacked just to steal btc, that's fraud and you could always report him to http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx and then send him some nice threatening messages.

I got ripped off by this guy who sold me some pirated, completely fake microsoft software.  ($800 worth ) 

after not responding to 10-20 emails, he responded to the one where I gave him an ultimatum and let him know I was contacting local law enforcement.  of course, he was in my general area so that helped.  he promptly sent me $800 via paypal and asked me to return his bogus software just to make me lol.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: kloinko1n on July 03, 2011, 02:44:20 PM
I dont know even after so many incidents, why people still use paypal!
Just aviod paypal. Period
Hear hear! The only truly wise approach here.  8)


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Mousepotato on July 03, 2011, 02:47:21 PM
Its sooooooooo easy to get someones Paypal acct banned for lif just make a fake porn blog and start soliciting donations for a paypal addy.  Won't last more than a week.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: blumpkinpie76 on July 03, 2011, 03:02:25 PM
First of all, I thought that Ebay was removing Bitcoin listings so im surprised to see so many selling there. Second of all, 3 days after I found out about Bitcoin I figured out by reading forum posts and by trying to use Coinpal, which is now closed because dealing inBitcoin is against Paypal policy, that bying BTC with Paypal is a huge mistake. WTF are you all doing? Not tying to be a dick, but you kind of deserve to get screwed doing this. If you want people to steal you BTC, you should just store your wallet on an unfirewalled unsecured Windows machine and wait to get owned ;D That would mean less effort and frustration on your part.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 03, 2011, 06:46:31 PM
The problem the way I see it, the scammer is stealing bitcoins, he could very easily steal other items as well, since shipping does not seem to be an issue, blockexplorer is proof of shipping.

Up to this point neither ebay or Paypal  has said anything against bitcoin to me, they have acted against bitcoin which is a different thing.
On the email from paypal or the chat with ebay there is not a word against bitcoin.

As far as the seller protection, I have no idea what this protects but seems to be an scam since there is very strong evidence that the-mullet09 and jabgasrm are the same guy and has charge many chargebacks during a week against other sellers and continue to do so.

It it very hard to believe that both ebay and paypal account were hacked, it is even harder to believe that he gets hacked on a daily basis, since after his first charge back, paypal or ebay should have alerted other ebay sellers and investigate why a single user goes by different ebay ids and it filing charge backs on different days against different sellers claiming his account was hacked each time. After the first charge back it should have been ebay and paypals responsible to secure the account, no such action has been done on either part of ebay or paypal, this crook continues to charge back all bitcoin purchased, and paypal is honoring those chargebacks.

I agree with everyone that says paypal should be avoided, but it is difficult since ebay has a monopoly over paypal and only allows paypal as the only method of payment, therefore saying paypal should be avoided is like saying ebay should be avoided they are basically the same thing, and very true the should be avoided by all means.

As far as shipping, it is very easy to prove that a shippment took place using blockexplorer, I have submitted the evidende of blockexplorer to paypal, but it seems paypal prefers to ignore this evidence, since they do not reply and there is absolutely  no feedback on their part in regards this matter.

Not everyone that sells on ebay does it for more profit, some do it to get the money quicker, since it takes me a whole week to convert bitcoins to dollars by avoiding paypal, mtgox is very quick, dwolla is very quick,  however the money has to go from dwolla to banks, and that part is very slow sometimes a whole week, and I have tried with 2 different banks and it takes an entire week in either direction.

I would like to see if anyone can recover the money from paypal, I think we have very strong evidence of Paypals wrongdoing, ebay, and of course the scammer, in my case paypal froze the money on my account, not only the money for the chargeback, but all the money on the account, I have access to my paypal account but can not withdraw any money at all, I get an email saying the money is being delivered to my bank, but during the process there is a warning message that there is an investigation open and funds can not be withdrawn.

The more I know about paypal, the more I like to use bitcoins.
We should stop using ebay as well it is the same scam company that paypal is.



Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 03, 2011, 06:51:46 PM
a guy using the accounts "christian-dbr" and "tinchen-hro" has emailed me claiming to have been stung by the same bitcoin/paypal scam.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: zerokwel on July 03, 2011, 07:22:56 PM
I hate Idiots like that. Makes me feel like driving down there and keying his car.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 03, 2011, 07:35:35 PM
A lot of sellers got stung, was is amazing is that paypal insists that the account got hacked, and it does nothing to secure the account.
Very hard to believe that the account gets hacked on ebay and paypal, on different days and continues to get hacked.

Paypal should immediately void all the chargebacks to all the sellers, unfreeze all the sellers acounts it has frozen, and ban this scammer from both ebay and paypal, but neither ebay or paypal seem to care.

Paypal and ebay have been lying to us, making it look like the account was recently hacked, and hiding the fact that the same guy has filled many chargebacks using exactly the same scam.

This is how the scam works:
 
1. buy bitcoins on ebay.
2. pay with paypal
3. receive the bitcoins.
4. file a chargeback claiming account was hacked.
5. keep the bitcoins and the money.
6. repeat this process.
7, after process has been repeated a few times, change ebay id, and repeat the process again.

and repeat this same process on different days with different sellers.

Paypal know about this, and if failing to warn the sellers, in fact when the seller gets the email from paypal, paypal makes it appeared that the problem is only with you, and that the account was hacked only for your transaction, which is clearly false.

It seems Paypal wants to kill bitcoin by encouraging fraud against bitcoin.

Well this serves us as a lesson to learn on ways paypal has to atack the bitcoins, and how low  paypal has fallen.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: TraderTimm on July 03, 2011, 08:12:53 PM
Using paypal with bitcoin is like training for a marathon while smoking a cigar.



Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: CurbsideProphet on July 03, 2011, 08:19:57 PM
You can't prove shipment.  Blockexplorer doesn't mean shit.  If Paypal doesn't consider a receipt from the USPS as a form of shipment (they require a tracking #) you think they're going to give a rip about blockexplorer?

Bitcoins were banned from selling at Ebay.  If you continue to use it, then you do so at your own risk so stop crying.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Saledo on July 03, 2011, 08:30:11 PM
Paypal much like Visa/Mastercard DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE MERCHANT.  Period.  End of Story.  When I first started working for my employer, I found out they were using paypal to run their credit cards.  A buyer purchased 60K of equipment (not unusual with our equipment), and we had proof of delivery via UPS.  Got a charge back from the guy, faxed IP info, shipping confirmation, signature from UPS, would paypal work with us at all?  NO.  We weren't even allowed to forward the info to the credit card companies because we were going through Paypal.  We were literally doing half a million a month plus through paypal and they were willing to screw us over 60K in chargebacks with no thought.  You really think they care about your bitcoins?  Lesson learned, move on.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: chuckypalumbo on July 03, 2011, 09:19:29 PM
I took payment from a guy via paypal, but it wasn't through ebay, and so far no problems, but it's only been about 3 days. I knew the risk going in, got his phone number, address, etc. etc. and these horror stories will keep me from dealing with ebay and paypal in regards to these types of scams. Whatever happened to seller protection though? And what about all the people selling gold and silver through ebay?


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: zerokwel on July 03, 2011, 09:41:19 PM
well the story goes DON'T USE PAYPAL... Unless your 100% sure you can trust the person


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 03, 2011, 09:46:54 PM
it is not about crying, at least I am not crying, it is about alerting others and doing something against scammers, ebay, and paypal.

But it is good to expose the scammer and paypal and ebay for what they are, this post may have helped some people on this forum by alerting them of this situation, the problem with paypal is not with bitcoins, it is a problem in general, paypal or ebay has not sent me a single email the problem was because it was a transaction with bitcoins.

I lost very little, but others lost a lot, and it is very sad to see this type of fraud take place, and for paypal to encourage the fraud to take place.

Not trying to fight  the fraud would be the wrong thing to do, I know paypal is probably going to burn me, and all the other guys that got scammed, but it is worth a try to try to do something about, and then lose, than to give up immediately and act like paypal not do anything, and actually encourage the fraud.

This problems somehow affects us all, for example you buy something from a legitimate vendor, then you have to pay a little extra, since the legitimate vendor has extra expenses due to fraud, and to cover for fraud he has to increase his prices, the legitimate customer is then force to pay this extra prices, for any business if the operational cost is increased due to fraud, that cost is passed onto the customers.

The problem with ebay and paypal is that the play a huge role in the market, they have become so big, that they do not care about their customers, and posts like this is that make people aware of scams.

If paypal continues with its scams, and people complain in forums, blogs, etc, paypal will fall, I will not be surprised that in 5 years from now  bitcoin is the big thing, and no one gives a shit about paypal, when that happens I will know that we have won, so a short term loss is no big deal, but if no one does anything,   people accept  paypal behavior as acceptable, then 10 years from now paypal will even be worse than now. that is not something that is acceptable. This post will help many in the long run, and I predict there will be many more scams like this by paypal, until its downfall.

Once paypal begins to fall they will listen to their customers and service will improve, but by then bitcoin will be big and strong, ebay will probaly start accepting bitcoins as a form of payment in about 5 years, otherwise it will be lost sales to them.

I really doubt any of the sellers will get their money back, but it is worth a try, at the very least paypal gets exposed for what it is.

I do not expect to get my money back due  to everyones experience with paypal, but posting paypal as a fraudulent enterprise, and having my prediction of paypals downfall in 5 years, and to have bitcoin strong as ever when paypal colapses, and to have contributed to paypals downfall even if it is a very tiny amount, it is worth a lot to me, that alone is probably worth infinitely much more to me than my lost btc.
This post probably helped many more people from being scammed.

In regards to seller protection, it does not seem to work, when  I received the email of paypal payment from the scammer, the email said I was eligible for seller protection, but then after the charge back no word from paypal on seller protection, I even asked them about the seller protection and have got now replay, it has been more than a day and no word from paypal, seller protection seems to be an scam.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 03, 2011, 10:02:17 PM
it is not about crying, at least I am not crying, it is about alerting others and doing something against scammers, ebay, and paypal.

But it is good to expose the scammer and paypal and ebay for what they are, this post may have helped some people on this forum by alerting them of this situation, the problem with paypal is not with bitcoins, it is a problem in general, paypal or ebay has not sent me a single email the problem was because it was a transaction with bitcoins.

I lost very little, but others lost a lot, and it is very sad to see this type of fraud take place, and for paypal to encourage the fraud to take place.

Not trying to fight  the fraud would be the wrong thing to do, I know paypal is probably going to burn me, and all the other guys that got scammed, but it is worth a try to try to do something about, and then lose, than to give up immediately and act like paypal not do anything, and actually encourage the fraud.

This problems somehow affects us all, for example you buy something from a legitimate vendor, then you have to pay a little extra, since the legitimate vendor has extra expenses due to fraud, and to cover for fraud he has to increase his prices, the legitimate customer is then force to pay this extra prices, for any business if the operational cost is increased due to fraud, that cost is passed onto the customers.

The problem with ebay and paypal is that the play a huge role in the market, they have become so big, that they do not care about their customers, and posts like this is that make people aware of scams.

If paypal continues with its scams, and people complain in forums, blogs, etc, paypal will fall, I will not be surprised that in 5 years from now  bitcoin is the big thing, and no one gives a shit about paypal, when that happens I will know that we have won, so a short term loss is no big deal, but if no one does anything,   people accept  paypal behavior as acceptable, then 10 years from now paypal will even be worse than now. that is not something that is acceptable. This post will help many in the long run, and I predict there will be many more scams like this by paypal, until its downfall.

Once paypal begins to fall they will listen to their customers and service will improve, but by then bitcoin will be big and strong, ebay will probaly start accepting bitcoins as a form of payment in about 5 years, otherwise it will be lost sales to them.

I really doubt any of the sellers will get their money back, but it is worth a try, at the very least paypal gets exposed for what it is.

I do not expect to get my money back due  to everyones experience with paypal, but posting paypal as a fraudulent enterprise, and having my prediction of paypals downfall in 5 years, and to have bitcoin strong as ever when paypal colapses, and to have contributed to paypals downfall even if it is a very tiny amount, it is worth a lot to me, that alone is probably worth infinitely much more to me than my lost btc.
This post probably helped many more people from being scammed.

In regards to seller protection, it does not seem to work, when  I received the email of paypal payment from the scammer, the email said I was eligible for seller protection, but then after the charge back no word from paypal on seller protection, I even asked them about the seller protection and have got now replay, it has been more than a day and no word from paypal, seller protection seems to be an scam.
QFT

Also, does anyone know how I can stop PayPal taking the charge back from my debit card? I withdrew money from the account before the charge back claim was made and subsequently I have a "negative" balance. I expect PayPal to find a way of taking that money from my bank but would obviously prefer that not to happen.

It is so incredibly easy for eBay/PayPal to detect auctions with "bitcoin" in the title/description and have them automatically removed, the only reason they are not doing this is to disrupt the bitcoin economy. I didn't even realise bitcoins were forbidden to be sold on eBay until this fiasco.

I don't like some of the comments in this thread ("greedy people getting scammed, oh dear" etc..) - that does nothing but make the bitcoin community look weak in front of one of our major rivals. PayPal is actively pursuing bitcoin because it realises the massive potential of bitcoin. We must stick together and stop this sh1thole of a company.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: mazmorbid on July 03, 2011, 11:24:04 PM
I would like add that the buyers "the-mullet09" and "jabgasm" both had their emails end in "@tiscali.co.uk" and both replied exactly the same when I (btcmania) sent the first payment of 0.01 btc "I acknowledge receipt of bitcoin +0.01" I showed my wife and said this looks a little strange .. 1 day later both users open an unauthorized claim with Paypoop .. They (Paypal) sent me a nice little reminder "We determined that you did not meet the eligibility requirements for the PayPal Seller Protection Policy, and you are therefore being charged for this reversed transaction. We've returned the funds to the PayPal account holder, and your account will be debited for the amount of this transaction." Pricks ..

Also, does anyone know how I can stop PayPal taking the charge back from my debit card? I withdrew money from the account before the charge back claim was made and subsequently I have a "negative" balance. I expect PayPal to find a way of taking that money from my bank but would obviously prefer that not to happen.

Yep they will just take it from your bank, have had it happen to me in the past, they will send a little note to the scammer "we were successful in retrieving the funds from that sucker you stole bitcoins off" ..


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: CurbsideProphet on July 04, 2011, 12:27:30 AM
You can still use Paypal (but not via Ebay) to sell Bitcoins safely.  If you are a seller, tell the buyer to send the funds as a gift.  They will have no recourse against you.  Of course, this just shifts the risk to the buyer but if you can get a buyer willing to do so, Paypal is perfectly safe to use for a BTC seller. 

In a world of anonymity, someone has to bear the risk.  Just make sure it's not you. 


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: gigabytecoin on July 04, 2011, 02:18:08 AM
YOUR MONEY IS GONE.

Have you ever heard of a deal that was TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE?!?

I saw you guys selling your Bitcoins on eBay and warned you a few weeks ago too...

You were selling BTC for 50% higher than MtGox asking price to some people... how could you not immediately tell that they were going to turn around and run with your products?!?

Selling a commodity or a currency for a 50% markup SCREAMS of "too good to be true".

Obviously the buyers knew what bitcoins were and knew their real value, otherwise they wouldn't be buying them through eBay.

Get a brain!


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: gigabytecoin on July 04, 2011, 02:20:34 AM
You can still use Paypal (but not via Ebay) to sell Bitcoins safely.  If you are a seller, tell the buyer to send the funds as a gift.  They will have no recourse against you.  Of course, this just shifts the risk to the buyer but if you can get a buyer willing to do so, Paypal is perfectly safe to use for a BTC seller. 

In a world of anonymity, someone has to bear the risk.  Just make sure it's not you. 

No, PayPal is not perfectly safe to use for a BTC seller.

A buyer can get a reversal on a payment (even if it is sent as a GIFT) simply by calling their credit card company, saying their credit card was stolen before that purchase was made, and filing a charge-back.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Shinobi on July 04, 2011, 02:24:28 AM
Exactly. Both sides are scammers.

hey, I would like to buy 50-100 BTC via Paypal from you, seems like you are a trustworthy seller. I'll pay 40 USD per BTC.  ::)

ITT: greedy people getting scammed by other greedy people


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 04, 2011, 10:29:19 PM
The big scammers here are ebay and paypal.

The fraud by the same scammer continues.

Both Ebay and Paypal were reported by me several times 2 days ago and also yesterday,  and this guy "jabgasrm" continues to scam sellers today he just scammed someone else today july 4.

ebay Item number:   130538720794
seller: daniello76 which is a seller with a perfect rating of 100% with 32 positive feedbacks.

how can the Law or any police officer that is reading this allow the same guy to continue scamming others after scampal, and ebay have been fully made aware of the situation and not do anything about.

He has already stolen over $1000 dollars from many sellers.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 06, 2011, 11:20:03 AM
Hard to believe but paypal and ebay are not doing anything to stop this scammer, on another forum I just learned another seller got burned today July 6.
I have reported this crook to ebay and paypal and they keep screwing sellers, with the lie that the account was compromised and in was an unauthorized transaction, which is bs on paypals part, there are fully aware of the situation and the scam contijues.

Check out this thread
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26369.0

Do Not use paypal, I tried warning everyone about this scammer, and the scammer continues to scam with the help of paypal.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Man From The Future on July 06, 2011, 11:38:57 AM
proof of shipping could be provided through block explorer and email correspondence.  whether or not paypal would actually do anything about that is another story.

But if he told paypal his account was hacked just to steal btc, that's fraud and you could always report him to http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx and then send him some nice threatening messages.

I got ripped off by this guy who sold me some pirated, completely fake microsoft software.  ($800 worth ) 

after not responding to 10-20 emails, he responded to the one where I gave him an ultimatum and let him know I was contacting local law enforcement.  of course, he was in my general area so that helped.  he promptly sent me $800 via paypal and asked me to return his bogus software just to make me lol.
Ship a pendrive with a wallet.dat on it. Then you have seller-protection? :)


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: BitcoinPorn on July 06, 2011, 11:41:43 AM
Bitcoins were banned from selling at Ebay.  If you continue to use it, then you do so at your own risk so stop crying.

This.  I think thread should either be locked or at the least retitled so people stop misusing that word Scam.

User error.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 06, 2011, 04:39:42 PM
Bitcoins were banned from selling at Ebay.  If you continue to use it, then you do so at your own risk so stop crying.

This.  I think thread should either be locked or at the least retitled so people stop misusing that word Scam.

User error.

Have you even read the thread? Just because selling bitcoins may be against eBay "rules" (which are found where exactly?) doesn't make it right for paypal to defraud its customers. Have you heard of the expression "the customer is always right"?


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 06, 2011, 07:28:54 PM
This is the scammer info:
 Buyer
John Binns
http://twitter.com/storeman316


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Man From The Future on July 06, 2011, 07:30:50 PM
This is the scammer info:
 Buyer
John Binns
http://twitter.com/storeman316
Finad his employer, get him fired? :o


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: beeph on July 06, 2011, 07:42:01 PM
british paypals are usually stolen just call him b4 accepting payment, prolly has an e european accent (frequently romanian, actually)

live and learn

so many scams/fraud are prevented with a simple phone call .. it's saved me thousands of $$ over the years.



guy in his 30's with some common sense and a phone >>>>>>>>  31337 hax0rs googling and doing online 'detective work'


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: jack102938 on July 06, 2011, 09:00:59 PM
guy in his 30's with some common sense and a phone >>>>>>>>  31337 hax0rs googling and doing online 'detective work'
ORLY

"We have completed our investigation of the transaction below and were
unable to find evidence of unauthorised access to the buyer’s account. This
case was refused to the buyer and no funds were recovered from your account.

Thanks for your cooperation through this process. We are continuing to work
to ensure that PayPal is secure for all users."


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: Oldminer on July 06, 2011, 09:02:33 PM
Dont use payscam ffs...I don't know how many times people have posted about this on here....


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: frycicle on July 07, 2011, 12:48:52 AM
Someone tried this on me after I sold some coins on eBay. Paypal emailed me saying that he didn't have enough proof he was hacked, and I got my monies!  ;D


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: bitcoinminer on July 07, 2011, 12:49:52 AM
It's unethical to let a sucker keep their paypal money


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 07, 2011, 08:15:39 AM
Paypal is extremely corrupt, more than many of you can imagine, I have been doing everything I can to stop this scammer from stealing bitcoins and have failed, this thief has been reported to ebay and paypal and they do not think to care, they just tell the seller the buyers account was hacked and file a chargeback.

I think there are many sellers, we should organize and put pressure against paypal and ebay, not only to recover the lost coins, but put an stop on this crook, and hopefully put him in jail.

Today he scammed another seller for bitcoins:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=jabgasrm&ftab=FeedbackAsBuyer
The last victim is  jewel_hilton
ebay action id: 270773724170

And for those that say selling bitcoins on paypal is illegal, they are clearly wrong
See here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PayPal it is a bad idea but that does not make it illegal, also paypal does not make laws, they can make a contract, but even then by clearly allowing bitcoin actions (also allowing fraud) they are accepting bitcoins.

Here is an example of the non written law in many countries:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho_consuetudinario (sorry in spanish, could not find the english version).
What "Ley o Derecho consuetudinario" in brief refers to non written laws, that are accepted by tradition when there are precedents or what the people agree is legal.

Paypal by allowing bitcoin actions actions to take place, with or without fraud, they create a precedent that it is Ok, and it many countries in the world that would make  a bitcoin transaction perfectly legal with paypal, of course the laws vary from country to country, but in general it would be legal with a few exceptions. In the USA it is also legal, and worst case it could be a violation of contract and even that would be doubtful since there is a precedent saying otherwise.
 
If anyone has some ideas how we could organize. please post here, this post has a lot of detail of all the fraud this guy
Info on the thief.
 John Binns
141 Blackmoor Drive, West Derby
Liverpool, Merseyside
L129EE
United Kingdom
johngeljen@tiscali.co.uk

This post may help some recover their money from paypal.

My Advice, do not use paypal it is an scam, and do not use ebay it is the same company.



Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: done on July 07, 2011, 08:22:19 AM
Paypal is a scam. How does everyone not know this already?


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 07, 2011, 08:37:51 AM
in regard to the reference of the law, the link was in spanish, here I found the link in english:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customary_law

It is called custom or customary law,
This makes bitcoins legal and accepted by paypal, since they are allowing bitcoins.
Customary law is probably valid on some countries. I am not an expert on law.

But follow my advice stay away from paypal it is not only an scam, it is a criminal enterprise.

I knew paypal was bad, and most of us know that paypal is bad, but what you probably do not know is how bad their are.
I am pretty sure a good lawyer could sue them big time for all the fraud they do, the problem is that if the fine awarded by a court is lower than they money they make of deft, they will continue stealing their customers money.

I never expected them to be as corrupt as they are, the allow a massive fraud to take place knowingly.

The problem are not the bitcoins, the problem is paypal.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 07, 2011, 04:50:32 PM
Today I spoke to paypal and they are full of bs, they sayd "they believe the buyers account was compromised", I told them it is a bunch of bs, and I told them that they should have it secure on the very first chargeback.

The do not recognize electronic delivery even though they can be proven.

Here is my plan, and we are probably going to get our money back but it will take for ever, we can organize as a whole under one team since it is the same case for all of us, and under small claims court sue paypal, it will be up to the judge weather electronic delivery can be proven or not, given the very strong evidence against the scammer and paypal we have a very strong posibility of winning.

It makes more sense to sue paypal, since it is paypal that has failed us, and taken our money, the scammer would have never succeded without the help of paypal.

Under small claims in California the limit is $7500, and we should file suit for the actual amount of money that is going to cost to fight the case, legal advice, many trips to court, time loss,  email expenses, transportation, court expenses, etc, but under small claims it is mostly time that is wasted, not too much money, most likely paypal will never go to court and settle out of court since it is in their best interest.
With the evidence we have I believe we can win the case against paypal under small claims court.

Here is my email if someone would like to fight paypal under small claims court: sergiori@hotmail.com

The idea it to get all the facts organized, with all the people that got scammed.
We can each file one individual law suit, or one law suit covering us all.






Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: BitMofo on July 20, 2011, 05:17:11 PM
Today I spoke to paypal and they are full of bs, they sayd "they believe the buyers account was compromised", I told them it is a bunch of bs, and I told them that they should have it secure on the very first chargeback.

The do not recognize electronic delivery even though they can be proven.

Here is my plan, and we are probably going to get our money back but it will take for ever, we can organize as a whole under one team since it is the same case for all of us, and under small claims court sue paypal, it will be up to the judge weather electronic delivery can be proven or not, given the very strong evidence against the scammer and paypal we have a very strong posibility of winning.

It makes more sense to sue paypal, since it is paypal that has failed us, and taken our money, the scammer would have never succeded without the help of paypal.

Under small claims in California the limit is $7500, and we should file suit for the actual amount of money that is going to cost to fight the case, legal advice, many trips to court, time loss,  email expenses, transportation, court expenses, etc, but under small claims it is mostly time that is wasted, not too much money, most likely paypal will never go to court and settle out of court since it is in their best interest.
With the evidence we have I believe we can win the case against paypal under small claims court.

Here is my email if someone would like to fight paypal under small claims court: sergiori@hotmail.com

The idea it to get all the facts organized, with all the people that got scammed.
We can each file one individual law suit, or one law suit covering us all.






Just got scammed for 7bitcoins, still awaiting paypal's decision, but it's an absolute joke that this goes on... Considering going to small claims myself in the UK, problem is it will cost me a few hundred quid to get started, and then it's always the judges decision... If the judge doesn't understand how bitcoin works then I'm screwed?


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: sergio on July 20, 2011, 06:04:27 PM
Here is the method on how you can get your 7 bitcoins back.
Paypal completely ignores blockexplorer, and it will go as far as denying that it exists, since it is obvious that palpal does not like bitcoin, and there is no point arguing to them about blockexplorer since they ignore it because it is convenient for them.

This is what you have to do, provide a tracking number, the delivery method is not important as long as it provides a tracking number, then provide that tracking number to paypal and a copy of the receipt with the tracking number to paypal, file uploads are disabled by default on the dispute form so you will have to call paypal to get file upload enables.

Just claim that the bitcoins were sent by mail, and you are covered for buyer protection. you can send the address where the bitcoin was sent, a copy of block explorer, a certificate, anything that proves that you sent the bitcoin, in the mail claim the value as the value of the bitcoins it represents.

I got my bitcoins back after 15 days.

Also ebay feedback is screwed up big time, since seller where only allowed to leave positive feedback for the scammer, there was a lot of positive feedback  for jabgasrm calling him an scammer, all that feedback was removed by ebay, I have a picture of the feedback page before ebay did the cleaning to his feedback.
Leason to be learned from this, is that ebay feedbacks are not trustworthy, they have no value whatsoever, before 2008 they meant something, but not now.


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: BitMofo on July 22, 2011, 01:46:43 PM
Here is the method on how you can get your 7 bitcoins back.
Paypal completely ignores blockexplorer, and it will go as far as denying that it exists, since it is obvious that palpal does not like bitcoin, and there is no point arguing to them about blockexplorer since they ignore it because it is convenient for them.

This is what you have to do, provide a tracking number, the delivery method is not important as long as it provides a tracking number, then provide that tracking number to paypal and a copy of the receipt with the tracking number to paypal, file uploads are disabled by default on the dispute form so you will have to call paypal to get file upload enables.

Just claim that the bitcoins were sent by mail, and you are covered for buyer protection. you can send the address where the bitcoin was sent, a copy of block explorer, a certificate, anything that proves that you sent the bitcoin, in the mail claim the value as the value of the bitcoins it represents.

I got my bitcoins back after 15 days.

Also ebay feedback is screwed up big time, since seller where only allowed to leave positive feedback for the scammer, there was a lot of positive feedback  for jabgasrm calling him an scammer, all that feedback was removed by ebay, I have a picture of the feedback page before ebay did the cleaning to his feedback.
Leason to be learned from this, is that ebay feedbacks are not trustworthy, they have no value whatsoever, before 2008 they meant something, but not now.


Thanks for the advice Sergio, that is basically the route I immediately decided to take when I realised what had happened! I posted the guy an envelope with "7 bitcoins" written inside, then provided paypal with the tracking number. Am still waiting to see what happens next though!
Fingers crossed! Will keep everyone updated


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: BitMofo on July 31, 2011, 03:51:54 PM
Here is the method on how you can get your 7 bitcoins back.
Paypal completely ignores blockexplorer, and it will go as far as denying that it exists, since it is obvious that palpal does not like bitcoin, and there is no point arguing to them about blockexplorer since they ignore it because it is convenient for them.

This is what you have to do, provide a tracking number, the delivery method is not important as long as it provides a tracking number, then provide that tracking number to paypal and a copy of the receipt with the tracking number to paypal, file uploads are disabled by default on the dispute form so you will have to call paypal to get file upload enables.

Just claim that the bitcoins were sent by mail, and you are covered for buyer protection. you can send the address where the bitcoin was sent, a copy of block explorer, a certificate, anything that proves that you sent the bitcoin, in the mail claim the value as the value of the bitcoins it represents.

I got my bitcoins back after 15 days.

Also ebay feedback is screwed up big time, since seller where only allowed to leave positive feedback for the scammer, there was a lot of positive feedback  for jabgasrm calling him an scammer, all that feedback was removed by ebay, I have a picture of the feedback page before ebay did the cleaning to his feedback.
Leason to be learned from this, is that ebay feedbacks are not trustworthy, they have no value whatsoever, before 2008 they meant something, but not now.


Thanks for the advice Sergio, that is basically the route I immediately decided to take when I realised what had happened! I posted the guy an envelope with "7 bitcoins" written inside, then provided paypal with the tracking number. Am still waiting to see what happens next though!
Fingers crossed! Will keep everyone updated

Hi everyone,
Finally received paypal's outcome this afternoon... They reversed the payment to the scammer so I'm out of pocket. Didn't get a reason or anything... I am royally pissed off...


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: bitcoinminer on August 02, 2011, 03:44:14 PM

Hi everyone,
Finally received paypal's outcome this afternoon... They reversed the payment to the scammer so I'm out of pocket. Didn't get a reason or anything... I am royally pissed off...

1.) What did you learn?
2.) Did it cost you enough to remember what you learned?


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: BitMofo on August 03, 2011, 11:02:40 AM

Hi everyone,
Finally received paypal's outcome this afternoon... They reversed the payment to the scammer so I'm out of pocket. Didn't get a reason or anything... I am royally pissed off...

1.) What did you learn?
2.) Did it cost you enough to remember what you learned?

Had the outcome for the second batch I sold on the same day today, paypal reversed payments to me... Very strange!


Title: Re: PAYPAL SCAM ALERT, scammer is John Binns and paypal.
Post by: bitcoinminer on August 18, 2011, 11:36:46 AM
See above.