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I just caught this on wemineltc.com.  Nearly 2 million KH/s from a single user.  I think it's fair to say that's even a bit excessive for a typical botnet.  Or is it not.


Maybe someone out there testing the waters on their programming skills?
..
...
....
......

http://s17.postimg.org/cyahem1kf/Untitled_1.jpg

Botnet, a borked miner sending a shitload of stale shares.

My guess is that someone has written a nice new virus for GPU mining and wrapped it into several games or other programs available as torrents.  You can imagine if you seed a copy of a new game that's popular and 20,000 gamers download it, achieving such a hash rate is quite easy.

Still holy shit, that dude is making over $5,000 a day...

And they say crime doesn't pay  ::)

He was at like 2.6 million last night

Why not solo?

Stratum exploit?

1,920,385 kh/s is equal to x3200 HD7950 working on 100%, but such load makes it hard to even use PC. And not every PC has such expensive VGA.
So if it is a virus, it has tens of thousands PC infected. Botnets with this amount of bots are VERY risky, hard and expensive to use 24/7.

Maybe just admin uses fake stats, to grab LTC from pool (or another exploit).

The user is finding lots of blocks: http://wemineltc.com/blocksAuth

http://wemineltc.com/blockStatsAuth

https://www.weminecryptos.com/forum/topic/372-asic/

An admin of Wemineltc said he talked to the guy and he is supposedly "moving his hashrate from BTC to LTC"

And it's not fake. In 14 hours, LTC difficulty will hit over 1,100 for the first time (as far as I know).

It seems fairly straight forward for the guys @ wemineltc to see what's going on...

Large miners will have upwards of 3 or 4 cards per mobo, meaning at least perhaps 2MH/s from each miner connected...

If that account is seeing tens of thousands of connections with <1MH/s chances = botnet.
If that account is seeing a couple thousand connections with >2MH/s chances = GPU farm.

Perhaps I'm missing something but seems quite straight forward?

and if it just one connection or two?

this is weird, because with all this power he can mine without a pool...

meh, i got my answers on cryptsy chat

what the ? who has spent over $600,000+ on their miners!? and has an industrial mining operation
winkeloviii (shakes fist)

btw, can't the site admins check his "info" or is he using tor

I could have a pretty good guess as well , barwizi .

It is the two generation of a Chinese rich, investment 7500000 yuan Nong, ASIC currently do not come out.

answers wat  ???

what? you know who that is?

I saw this earlier as well. The way that it came out of nowhere though is what is interesting. It has been just over the past two days or so that this has come on and the difficulty has surged upwards. You think with that many machines, changing settings, balancing power consumption, etc... that you would slowly roll them out over time, not all at once. It seems really odd to me, IE: stratum exploit, botnet, or a combination of a few things.

It's power is from outside of litecoin network, because of him the litecoin diffculty is increasing heavily and network total hash is above 30GH/s now.

As long as we know, no one can make this big farm of gpu, it should be something else.

Maybe a bitcoin mining pool that pointed to litecoin and all of it's users changed their cgminer settings as well. (BTW, if this assumption would be correct, we should know that pool in forums that converted from bitcoin to litecoin with all of its users, do you know any??)

www.litecoinminingcalculator.com  next difficulty (Diff. 1130.73448802)  :o

i started to belive this thread is true ( A RAM based fpga LTC miner )

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283977.0

You need to check your math: 1,920,385 / 250 rigs = 7681.54 KH / Machine. I don't know of anyone making 7.68 MH / machine. That's not ever feasible with 8x 7970. Even if you give them a liberal estimate of 2500 kh / machine that's 768.xx rigs or 3072 7970/7950.

Well this is something mysterious  :o

Some how I think we're getting screwed here...

It could be a large GPU farm like Buy-A-Hash https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,3126.0.html

Yes, you will find it in the Arctic, next to the big nuclear reactor.

If its all in a single location it should be possible to detect the heat signature from space. lol

Your numbers are still really friendly. This is a 240 MH/s farm.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg2997283#msg2997283


Now, with that in mind think of what 8X that would be...


Agreed! This all came on the network really quickly and now there's a second account that popped up with 1,000,978 KH/s, zebbsd. I think this has to be some sort of exploit that people are taking advantage of much like the semi recent stratum exploit that caused large gains in hashrate.

Surely it is only a matter of time before someone invents a scrypt fpga or asic.. Could this be the first?

Buying more hardware to mine or mining in general will slowly become a zero sum game now even for scrypt.  Buy a ton of PoS coins and just log on your client once a week to mine your stake.

No heat, no botnets,no fpga, no asic, no worries

Can anybody confirm who and what this this 2600 Giga is ..

1)Is it a ex BTC miners ?
2) Is it a botnet ?
3) Is it the real deal
4) is it a new FGPA farm or 800 rigs ?


Is it growing ???... Do we need to send a Predator  missile strike against this new threat   8)

Another thing. How purchase in the start vga for mining bitcoin? it's more cheap buy an ASIC, than vgas for $600,000 (less electricity power, heat, noise, space,etc)

Mining is a waste of resources , with the exception of maybe primecoin. It's also dead for most, much better vehicles for massive ROI available if you look.

The logic is sound, for example, Most blocks from PPC are now from stake generation not miners.. yet there is still a coin.. when there is no miners, there will still be the coin, hence the only retarded logic is to not consider other options going forward.

You are retarded..lolz

Go invest in a Ponzi scheme if you want massive ROI.

1) It IS an ex BTC miner.
2) Probably not, CPUs are extremely terrible at mining LTC
3) It is, cos he's finding blocks
4) FPGAs are hardly faster than GPUs, even in BTC land.  THey cost just as much if not more, but they take less power to run.  It's their only advantage.

 :o

but really it isn't that surprising. How much GPU mining hardware exists in the world. This guy probably doesn't have 0.5% of the total out there.

It is still quite a bit.  Holy crap I would like to see all that hardware.

About this, it's possible:

Only needs 5 kh/s per infected PC : 400,000 infected pc * 5 kh/s = 2 000,000 kh/s, and is very secure than more than 100 000 pcs can give more than 5 kh/s ;)

ok, my bad,sorry. i change the kh/s per mh/s

Correct, and it is an ASIC for Scrypt. And he still mines BTC too.

What...  He's an ex BTC GPU miner...

He's THE ex BTC GPU miner.

Oh wow.  This is getting interesting, and I like it.

Oh wow!

There is no ASIC for scrypt !!!  stop speaking FUD

LTC in red.

how is that FUD? if one is actually functional and THAT effecient then it's good news.

Technically it is like inventing a fission reactor.....not impossible but about 10x as hard for BTC SHA  (it is not going to JUST happen with some dude mining ltc !!)

Whats the most likely conclusion

1) BTC diff has gotten too high and a COmpany/Farm with 500 rigs switched to ltc  ?
2) Some guy/company has developed a technology in complete secrecy & invested 10-30+ million $$ to create this new revolutionary chip
(P.S A guy told a guy that told me on troll box lolz?)


THERE IS NO ASIC FOR SCRYPT so stop perpetuating a lot of bullshit based upon NOTHING !!!  

Interestingly, a lot of people seem to be assuming large, professionally built GPU farms are built the same way as amateur mining rigs, with just a couple GPU's per motherboard.  No.  At that level of investment, they're built significantly differently.  ROI matters, so the inefficient ways amateur miners assemble PC's simply doesn't compute for significant sized GPU farms.

Think more along the lines of one motherboard per rack of GPU's, using custom PCIe bridges and riser boards, and you'll be a little closer to the reality of large, professionally-built GPU farms.  And no, you're probably not going to see photos released of any professionally built and operated farm, until after GPU mining is no longer feasible for any cryptocoin.  Usually you won't even get a camera anywhere near the building (or semi trailers or 40' shipping containers, in some cases), on the rare chance that you get a chance to see one of them.

The farm being discussed here isn't all that large..  There are significantly larger GPU farms both already mining LTC, and still mining BTC that haven't transitioned over yet.

3000+ gpus is not small by any means. and having in fly under the radar is crazy. was there really such a "gpu farm" mining bitcoins - their hashrate should be proportional kh vs mh so you can see who had that much mining power for btc

Check wemineltc, the user seems gone from the lists.

check give-me-ltc

Yep there he is again.

So what you guys are hinting is it may be Artforz?

Please... Those PCIe backplanes cost 2-3x more than a motherboard. This is a large amount of hashing power otherwise people wouldn't be discussing it.


Agreed, there's something going on. This isn't something that is a normal GPU level deployment. Anyone else remember the giant BTC botnet that was coming out of Spain last year?

Too silly for Artforz... Well, may be it's Artforz with Alzheimer :)

Something in the dark  :D ;)

Guys,

Look at this URL: http://www.coingeneration.com/ (http://www.coingeneration.com/)

maybe that big hashrate is coming from users of this site.

a site where you have to pay before you get paid? i'll take two.

Maybe it's just Middlecoin pool pointing is entire pool hash rate to ltc mining ..... they have around 1219.1723 MH/s at the moment

1.2 Ghash, not 2Ghash !!

Please...  How much do you think it really costs to slap together a large GPU farm worth of 4 layer boards with a handful of PLX PCIe bridge chips and PCIe x16 slots with only one lane connected to each?  Handling fanout of REFCLK and escaping the BGA packaged PCIe bridge IC's is about the only thing requiring any skill at all, the rest is just dirt simple impedance balancing and length matching of the lane data signals (which is certainly not rocket science).

Here, I'll throw everyone a bone here.  There are many consumer motherboards currently on the market whose chipset doesn't actually require that all 16 lanes of a PCIe x16 slot be merged to one endpoint.  That means all 16 lanes can be broken out to 16 separate single-lane PCIe devices.  With the correct motherboard, it works just fine to hack up some ribbon cable PCIe risers to split a single x16 slot (preferably one at the edge of the motherboard so you can position GPU's both above and below the motherboard) to 16 GPU's.  Dividing up the REFCLK signal to each of the 16 GPU's is the only thing requiring any active electronics and design skill (and really, not all that much), but given that REFCLK isn't synchronous to the PCIe lane data signalling and runs significantly slower (100MHz), it's not complicated to pull off either.  You can also easily pull it off as a PCIe backplane on a dirt simple 2 layer PCB, REFCLK fanout circuitry and all, with no PCIe bridge IC on there at all, for under $100 in single unit quantities (even at PCB houses in the US).  How's that cost comparison vs individual motherboards per couple GPU's looking now?

So, there you go, the secret to running 16 GPU's per commodity motherboard.  Just in time for GPU mining to have only marginal ROI.  As soon as GPU mining moves beyond the realm of feasibility, you'll see a lot more interesting revelations about GPU mining farms than that..

You've never run a farm judging by your comments. Let me give you a clue why it's unique for a single location: Heat & Power.

He also appears to be clueless about the BIOS and AMD driver limits which make 16 GPU per system an impossibility.  In theory using PCIe bridge is possible but nobody with any capital dumped it into custom GPU boards when you could dump it into custom ASICs and make a fortune (in the early days). 

Provided he uses 7950's and each GPU uses 200w while hashing at 700kh/s, he'll need around 2880 of them to get 2GH/s.


That's about 560,000 watts or 0.56MW.

Since 1w = 1 joule/sec, it should be enough to heat 1 gallon of water from 20c to boiling (100c) in roughly 2 seconds.

I know there are other factors, like the amount of open space, etc., but that should give you an idea of how much energy is consumed by that farm.

You'll need to spend some serious dough on cooling if you want to run a farm like that in one location.

You've never operated any sort of data center equipment at all judging by your comments.  We're talking pretty basic level data center engineering here.

Calling an arbitrary software limitation an "impossibility" is probably a bit naive.  I'm assuming we're discussing Linux here, as Windows has no place in a large GPU farm.  The kernel source code is not only readily available, it's documented "well enough" for most programmers to understand and modify it, and the portion of the Radeon drivers that directly interact with the kernel is supplied as source anyway.  It is not particularly difficult to fire up multiple X servers and instances of the Radeon kernel module with different GPU's controlled by each.

You can even half-ass it with a handful of Xen virtual machines with specific PCI devices mapped to specific virtual machines and not even fool the AMD drivers at all, without ever touching any code at all.

Here, I'll even save you the trouble of Googling how to accomplish it:
http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Xen_PCI_Passthrough

The BIOS doesn't play a role in this.  Nor does it need to assign the PCI memory windows to all the GPU's, the Linux kernel is more than happy to enumerate the PCI buses and assign the windows itself.  Remember, hot-swappability was a design criteria for PCIe.  The BIOS is doing nothing once the Linux kernel fires up, Linux handles everything after that point.

Remember, DeathAndTaxes, just a couple weeks ago you posted that scrypt on GPU's operates entirely with on-die memory in the GPU and never touches external memory, and I called you out on it.  Lets maybe use some restraint before pulling out the "clueless" insult.

You just quoted someone who operates a 50,000+ KH gpu mining operation. There's a very fine line between being technically knowledgeable and having experience mining. You're very obviously possess technical knowledge, but very little applicable to mining knowledge. Please stop while you refrain that appearance of possessing technical knowledge.

I do both, but you do not apply the same concepts, as a large farm is not going to have the same resources to put forth as a very large corporate data center. The output from this "farm" would be on par with Ebay's data center in terms of power usage and cooling. Try again.

The easiest way to cool it is to run a chilled water glycol loop to a small chiller plant and outside cooling tower, then either liquid-cool the GPU's (my preference) or air-cool the GPU's with water-cooled air handlers in the space.

Here, I'll calculate it for you.  560kW = 159 tons of cooling.  Here's a perfectly suitable 175 ton chiller option on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-175-ton-Carrier-Centrifugal-Chiller-/221275176478?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3385073e1e (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-175-ton-Carrier-Centrifugal-Chiller-/221275176478?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3385073e1e)

Combine with an appropriately sized cooling tower and either order your GPU's with water blocks to operate directly on the glycol loop, or snag a few large surplus water-cooled air handlers if you insist on air cooling the GPU's.

This is just getting silly if you guys think that amount of heat rejection is unrealistic (or even hard) to accomplish at a single location.  Otherwise we need to change the debate from whether we're looking at a GPU farm transitioning from BTC to LTC, to instead be a debate about whether data centers really exist or whether they can be built and cooled.  Or for that matter, whether the technology exists to cool office buildings.

I do not consider 50,000kH/sec (on scrypt) to be a large GPU mining operation.

Wind- We all know it is possible in concept and in practice with unlimited funds, but what you seem to be missing is the amount of money a facility to deal with this equipment and the footprint it would need is very large.

We're not saying it isn't a very large farm, we're saying it's quite unlikely, unless it's a major, major entity, which certainly could be the case. Regardless, thank you for your thoughts, and please try and apply your knowledge to real-world scenarios that factor into a setup like this, if a large farm. It is very unique, and that is why we're discussing it. If you think it's so simple to do cost effectively, take your thoughts a bit further and apply value to what you speak of, instead of just speaking on an engineering aspect.


I don't either, but it at least shows that a person speaks from experience, rather than theory. If you told me you operated a 50,000-100,000 kh/s farm, and you were able to design it as you indicated and make a ROI in less than 8 months, I'd listen much more intently. I think the overall point was that with the challenges that a small 50,000 kh/s farm brings, it's very unlikely to bring up a farm 40+ times that size instantly. That type of power consumption would not be under the radar.

The power used is equivalent to the power consumption of 430 households :)

Why does it need to be under the radar?
This farm is not running out of some guys bedroom closet. It is a large operation and the power would not be unusual for a large office or a data center



-- I do not run any farms just speaking common sense ;)

You're correct that I have not offered evidence of such.  And I will not be at this time.  But we'll revisit this question at a future date when no cryptocurrencies are still feasible to mine with GPU's.  No one is going to believe anything without photos (and even then, photos are routinely disputed on this forum), and that will not occur until GPU mining is dead.  Same reason no one else has posted photos of large professionally-operated GPU farms.  Take it for what it's worth, that's the best I can do for you, aside from the hints I've already dropped in the couple threads on this.



Ah, but it wasn't built instantly, it was built over a longer period of time for mining BTC.  The transition to LTC and the "hey, everyone check out the hash rate of that user on that pool" stunt did take a couple days, but that's not the length of time it took to build the farm.



This I'll agree with you on.  But there's no reason to believe it operates or needs to operate "under the radar".  If what you mean is that everyone everywhere will be aware that there's 700kW entering a building somewhere in the world and a column of hot air exiting a HVAC cooling tower adjacent to it, that part is not likely.  Large industrial customers routinely consume several MW to tens of MW, a single customer under 1MW is not going to attract any attention at all.

Look forward to chatting, love to hear from others on how they implemented, even after the fact. My expansion will never grow above 200,000 kh/s for GPUs.

I believe the power consumption would more likely be 1MW by extrapolation from my farm. And by "below Radar", I think it was meant that it was likely to be heard of by someone in the community.

In terms of switching over though, going from Bitcoin to Litecoin takes a bit of tweaking, but certainly could be pulled off. I'd question why they just switched though, as it would have been wiser to switch months ago.

That's the thing. If this was a large entity you would think that there would be people employed to manage this kind of setup or even the couple investors would operate it. Even if they switched a few machines a day over it would pay for labor and we would see a linear increase in difficulty. This thing popped out of nowhere, ran for a couple days, and is now gone. There was another user up around 1 million KH/s, but they've been bouncing around all over the place, slowly falling, and are around 600,000 KH/s now. Hopefully, whatever this thing is it just dies off and goes away.

https://i.imgur.com/CyIoddF.png

Agreed ....Or I will give the co-ordinates to teh CIA as a potential hide out for al-cadia

A Predator drone strike should then deal with this Crime against humanity !!

I guess the NSA Utah data center just opened for business?

He's not talking about using water blocks for each GPU but water cooled air handlers like these:
http://watercooledgardens.com/images/P/wcahCeilingProd-05.jpg

Thanks for pointing that out. This seem like an expensive solution.

If you can spend $750,000 on GPU's then you probably could spend another $50,000+ on cooling  :)

Yeah but watercooling is more effective which should increase the lifespan of the GPUs.

I'm not sure if the increased lifespan justifies the amount of money you would need to spend though.

It also takes care of the problem of having such a high heat load in such a small, densely packed area, which seems to be what people above were saying made it unlikely a GPU farm of this size can be built.  And Wolf0's estimate of 30% is real high.  Large GPU farms don't go and pay retail single unit pricing from gaming water block manufacturers.  We're talking about thousands of units here at wholesale pricing with the GPU manufacturer omitting the fan and heatsink to drop costs.

I agree that it'll be a fun time once GPU mining becomes uneconomic, and everyone starts posting photos.  For that matter, it would be interesting to get together a group of large mining farm builders over a beer to "shoot the shit" after this is all over.  There's a lot of interesting engineering and tricks of the trade that people have developed for large mining farms.



As best I can tell, most of the people here have just never seen what a ~1MW service entrance looks like, or are imagining something massive and expensive.  So here, I ran outside with my camera just before dark in an attempt to educate people on what a service entrance of this size actually looks like.  I'm not going to post any mining rig photos for the reasons I noted a few posts back.  However, I'll post service entrance photos since there isn't exactly anything in these photos that will help anyone else build a GPU farm.  Our service entrance in the below photos has a maximum capacity of 900kW (2500A x 208VAC x 1.73):

The transformers out on the pole.  I bet no one would take a second look or think anything was at all unusual if they saw this next to any warehouse or office building:
https://i.imgur.com/Oi78JRy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vwItVgL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZMjuqQ9.jpg


Electrical distribution room:
https://i.imgur.com/vTnonUG.jpg


The 4th panelboard contains 3 2500A fuses and the disconnect.  I can't take a photo of the disconnect and fuses, as this panelboard is sealed by the power company:
https://i.imgur.com/OGH8cdX.jpg


The other 3 panelboards contain an assortment of 100A, 200A, 400A, 600A and 1000A breakers that feed the other subpanels throughout the building:
https://i.imgur.com/0VWoc7v.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qtgBxLI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/AAWvdAt.jpg


Here's a 400A disconnect ahead of one of the subpanels that fanout power to each row of racks:
https://i.imgur.com/SelNWhM.jpg


Note: I Photoshopped all of these (well, GIMP'd them).  I resized them down to a reasonable size, cropped them to the area of interest, and in the case of the power pole photo, removed the PUC tag # for the pole and the serial # on the transformer (I value my privacy, and any lineman in half of the western US could look up the exact location of that power pole otherwise).


And no, I will not post rig photos until after GPU mining of all cryptos becomes uneconomic and the contents of the photos will not aid anyone else in building their GPU farm.  However, it's not going to take long for someone to calculate an upper bound of how high our hash rate could be for the amount of power we have available.  It's between 0kH/sec and that upper bound, that's all you'll get for now.  :)

That's certainly not in "unlimited budget" territory.  I trust that the above photos look significantly different than what everyone else was envisioning when talking about a service entrance in this size range?  Were you guys envisioning a substation and switchyard or something?

I envisioned a huge warehouse piled high with stacks of mobo's and GPU's with arcs of electricity flying around.  ::)

jk but your setup looks pretty sweet.

So long story short ..Windmaster YOU are the mystery 2600 gig hash ??


Also what are your GPS co'ords and what are your views on Al-Cadia ???

Windmaster,you made my day ..f*cking awesome

Cool, thanks for posting. You must have ramped up a bit since you were at 18,000 kh/s in May. I do wonder why you're thinking you have some sort of trade secret though, except the fact that you're running more GPUs per rig with custom engineering and using custom frames with forced cooling.

The cooling is probably a very "cool" design, but the number of GPU's per rig honestly isn't worth the cost delta to me. Those are the cheap parts of my rigs - Memory, MB and boot drives cost me $140 per rig or less, so stuffing double the cards in the rig saves $140, minus whatever the parts you're using to rig it, which I assume would be minor in cost. You may save minor power, but you pay .065, and I pay .048, which doesn't really impact too much.

I think we got off topic though, your setup is not running anywhere near the 2 g/hs we're discussing, and while your initial message that stated it would be simple to create, just because we all know in theory and can multiply our own setups out, this is still a very odd thing to pop up as it did. Regardless, I'm sure we'll see this a lot more in the near future. I admire your eluded to setup, and you were correct, I wasn't clear on what 1 MW would look like going in. It's okay to admit that anything over 100,000 kh/s using GPUs does take a lot of unique problem solving to implement successfully in order to fit in leased spaces that are readily available with cheap power and is not common. Which brings us back once again to the original point.

Just saying...

I saw that farm and I love seeing all those rigs- but still, that's 250Mh/s or so of Scrypt.

Wind - One more note, I read through your history as you piqued my interest, and I think I better understand as to what you are doing by putting the pieces together. You've got a perfect mix of skills to set everything up along with the fact that the infrastructure is really there, at least in part back in May, to support the 3D Film rendering server leasing that you did. I am imagining that you run a lot more GPUs per motherboard than I was thinking, and this is an edge. Not sure how all the infrastructure costs you have wouldn't kill your ROI, but I'm going to assume with the multiple uses of the infrastructure, and tax breaks, this is factored in.

Certainly, a limited number of people have the skills, capital and cheap power, but I do understand your point that certainly the infrastructure exists and while out of the range of a "normal" or even an "advanced" mining operation, there are professional setups that can easily achieve this goal.

It's obvious you have the capability to have one of the larger Scrypt mining operations out there, however, I don't believe you're the 2 Gh/s mystery, although a quite respectable operation.

When this all is over, I'd love to hear more about your setup. We have some time left to mine though, so maybe next year.

 :o :o

There are professional ASIC fab companies known to be exploring Litecoin ASICS. No reason why they couldn't have built one by now and are keeping quiet.

its a fact that its been done - people are stupid , we have learned this by observing how docile people are .

most of the population are damaged goods, unfortunately. 

It would have been cooler if it was.  :P

really interesting ..

Lol,  make sure to charge top dollar for it. LTC mining could be bigger than BTC!

Well yes. I keep noticing this.
If I had sucessfully created an ASIC for Scrypt I wouldn't share it either, so..  :P

Considering you'll make hundreds, if not thousands, of times more money selling the ASIC than mining with it, not sharing it would be idiotic.

maybe that  is the owner of http://middlecoin.com/  ? and all the miners on his pool are one user on the other pool (most profitable scrypt pool at the moment ? ;)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=259649.1560

maybe LTC was most profitable at the time picture was taken ?  ;)

Plausible, particularly if all the work is being routed through the one account.

Considering that I'll have almost half the hashrate for sure, means that I'll make less than everyone else?  :D

As stated upthread Middle coin is ~1.2 GH/s this was 2.1 GH/s.

Let's say you spent 15 million making a practical ASIC for Scrypt (+ production costs, etc.), and sure, let's say you have 13GH/s now (about half of total LTC hashrate).

At current diff and exchange prices, you will make about $28,000 a day.

After diff adjusts (estimating), you will only be making around $20,000 a day.

Now if you were smart, would you wait 2 years to get a positive ROI and risk having someone else develop an ASIC and push diff higher, or you would start a new Scrypt ASIC market?

Price each ASIC at $2,000, and you'll start getting a positive ROI after 7,500 orders.

Amd testing their Hawaii cards? ;)

Isn't the better plan to "sell" them to get back your original investment, but due to whatever factors you want to make up, not ship them for say 6+ months and pocket the $20k-$28k /day ? Should a competitor come out just "release" them.

Great idea!
Oh wait

Or ...
you sell your ASIC as preorder and you mine with it.

Initial dev cost of a working  practical ASIC is less than two mil. The ideas are floating already, it's funny how people make it seem so unreachable. plus optimization i'd count 4 mil.

lol you could do that and make everyone hate you but I believe that happy customers = $$$.

But whatever floats your boat  :)


I was doing an inclusive estimate. Production costs, paying people, etc. I'd say in total, it should be around 10-15mil.

i'll put 5, you put 5 and we rape this crowd

I'd say the same, include GPU miner in some of the latest games (cracked) and people won't even notice.


All butterflies approve.  ;)

How about we fund a ASIC Scrypt development on kickstarter?  :P

Retail route is not so easy. One have to consider tax laws, customs laws, customer protection laws, certification compliance laws, cryptography regulation laws and whatever else laws invented on half of our globe. Add to that customer service, repair and replacement costs. On the other hand, private mining operation could be done with rented datacenter in country with cheap power (and possible VAT refunds for it :)) and an office, may be even virtual one, in some low-tax jurisdiction with lasy but sane lawmakers. Fiat profits from such structure could be recognized as dividends or royalty, carrying no risk of upcoming bitcoin-related regulations.

Some quality trolling ;D

Hi all :)

Has anyone noticed that those tiny but very frequent spikes resemble what a descent sized USB asic farm looks like when the difficulty is set too low ?

With getwork, the auto vardiff will cause similar spikes.

This!

and they have left the network?! noone noticed?

He moved to litegaurdian with 1.8 Gh/s.

pool trolling other pools  :D

Seems like something really weird going on here.


http://i43.tinypic.com/2942p0m.jpg


Either a very accurately controlled farm based upon some sort of off-peak electricity price plan, or something else...

Quants put their FPGA clusters into mining when exchanges are closed?

2344951 KH/s as of right now. It also joined Team Russia although that could just be a red herring. Judging by the way it is always bouncing around it seems to me that it is either a giant botnet, a huge pool, or a smaller pool using some sort of exploit. It also seems to be gaming the difficulty causing it to rise and fall by certain ratios. You can watch the difficulty adjustment estimates fall as its hashrate drops low on the pool then, bounce back up as it rises again. Regardless, I'm all for the Predator drone strike YipYip was talking about.

http://gifs.gifbin.com/25yuswsw28295.gif

I have seen this pattern before in corporate IT traffic: the rise in the morning, the gap at noon for lunch, rise again in the afternoon.... and decline.  From Monday to Friday.

A botnet?

I give it 80 percent they are using botnet.

Variation is too constant for a botnet in the wild. Maybe a botnet on a corporate network.

Or.. someone trying desperately to get their scrypt asic settings right.  

Or.. it could be someone having some cooling related issues. ::)

edit again.. :P

Now I'm thinking its the same hoard that was jumping in and out of the IFC network. eg. Within minutes the hashrate would jump from 20 mhash to 2100+.

+1, also LOL at tio la vara ;)

What would be the reason to move from pool to pool if not trying to evade something? Would really love to hear more from the pool operators.

Maybe another rogue sysadmin at the NSA??  Jeez guys, can't you keep your house in order for like 5 minutes?

UTC
https://i.imgur.com/Yxkglnf.png

Yes, assuming a desktop/laptop 24 hours on. But to save power most companies don't allow their workers to leave the computers on. That's why I said it looks like IT corporate traffic.

Intriguing.

Saturday too... Hence, not a corporate botnet...

Would you please explain a bit more about this trick?

How can we find out if our MOBO has this feature?

I guess this guy switched to LTC. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/sq7cy/iama_a_malware_coder_and_botnet_operator_ama/

I am guessing Botnet

Seems correct.

In that ocasion i bet for Tianhe-2's admin trials with tests of the supercomputer confided to him :)
http://top500.org/lists/2013/06/

Just imagine - bosses are having fun in vacations, but some admin that knows the schedule of super-computer and found the window of low load decided to "test" facilities with LTC search task :)
3 million 3GHz cores compares to nearly 4500 items of HD7970. Just one weekend makes 4000 LTCs.

One word, botnet.

yeah, i finished reading topic :)

In case of botnet, the competitive groups of hackers should appear soon - they will declare war on each other for botnet resources, for each node, because each node brings a profit.
Do you think this war will reveal hackers? :)

Half a year of mega-profits and no known hackerz-warz for the nodes?  -- unbelievable.

20Gh/s ???  botnet with power of 30 items of HD7970 a year ago? and now very quickly it grew up to 3000 HD7970 ? -- unbelievable.
botnet mined BTC for over that 3 months having LTC profit x2-x3 than BTC and botnet owner still stayed on BTC? -- unbelievable.
Antivirus companies keep silence on this and cannot do anything to stop this botnet?  -- unbelievable.

This botnet is an abomination to human kind (and crypto miners ;) )

We need to find:

1) Who it is
2) What it is
3) Where it is

ANd then KILL IT !!!

Why? The botnet is helping to secure alt coins, so good for us

Actually it is helping to kill the coin, look deeper man.

They are a plague and must be stamped out.

WTF do you see 'good' about stealing people's processing power ?

WTF am I reading?

See:

http://bit.ly/HweEWI

If a botnet is a problem then it show a flaw in the coin. Fix the coin since trying to kill all botnet is a waste of time.

I don't think that statement should even be graced with a response.

Then have fun botnet hunting with Microsoft and Kaspersky.

Ok, I'll bite. How would a coin stop from being mined by a botnet?

Produce hardware that can mine many magnitudes more efficiently than what the botnet has access to.

For the record based on the chart I seriously doubt it is a botnet in the general sense (general purpose trojan and rookit).  The day to day changes in hashing power are too consistent.  A botnet will consist of tens of thousands of nodes and the % that is online is constantly changing.  Some nodes are killed permently and the botnet is constantly recruiting new zombie nodes.  The graph looks nothing like one would expect for a botnet.

Now maybe someone misuing corporate resources?  Maybe.

By using ASIC technologies thus making the hardware used by botnets obsolete. Maybe there is other methods, I don't know. My point is only that you can't eradicate all botnets. If a coin is destroyed by them then it was flawed.

Ok, let's summarize:
- It's not a classic botnet
- it's not a gpu farm
- it looks like something running in laptops/desktops and not servers.
- it has the classic pattern of applications in corporate IT
- it works on Saturdays!

I bet for abuse of (a lot of) corporate resources... If so, it cannot be a single person... And this is really, really difficult.

We need the help of a pool operator for sure.

Fascinating.

It could still be a "classic botnet", but the rapid changes could just mean that they are all pointed to a stratum-proxy server out there. The botnet controller can just change the single proxy to point to new pools whenever they want and just keep the same worker name(s).

Here is another possibility:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSVo4ejZ7rc


Can someone do the math about ROI, and it's hashing power?  :D

$420000 a piece with about 700 GPUs if I'm not mistaken.

video Uploaded on Feb 6, 2010  :o
I wish I had such a rig for Bitcoin at that time!  :P  ;D

OK, everybody who blindly followed this tiny URL (from within a thread discussing botnets, of all places), slap yourself at the back of the head.
HARD.

If you were running Windows, also kick yourself in the balls, maybe that'll teach you.

I clicked it, but... from Android.

And for those who haven't yet it is a lmgtfy link to "what is a botnet"

Probably not, unless the botnet is running inside a corporation's network.

Why not?

What makes you say that?

Apparently.

Did it continue into Sunday?
That "Saturday" was Friday somewhere.

What if it was making optimal use of otherwise unused corporate resources?
I know of an FPGA farm that is used about 30 hours for the weekly regression run, but is otherwise mostly idle.

I was discussing this on the Liteguardian IRC with the pool managers. They mentioned the same thing; "He said he was converting a GPU farm from BTC to LTC." I also asked about the number of connections and they said that it was running through one connection. I'm guessing they meant IP or TOR connection. I'd like to know the number of "miners / zombies" connecting to the pool though. Next time I hop on there I'll ask.

cool rig there! ;D

Hi everybody,
is "he" still mining? Any news?

He's pushing 1.9 GH/s on LiteGuardian. They must have set up a special server for him, the other servers add up to 2.6 and the pool is 4.5 GH/s now. VIP  ;D

Prob not going to get a good answer, its in their best interest to lie about it since he's bringing in killer fees and finding blocks like mad. If this is GPU's, then I imagine guys running around restarting rigs and going crazy, as it fluctuates from 1.9 to 2.9 GH/s all the time.

Monster hashrates keep poppin in and out of IFC... IT seems to have doubled...

Pfff :D I know what it is but screw you guys I'm not telling cause I wanna profit myself.

Try a lot more... I've noticed a bunch of new members of the top ten pop out of nowhere as well. There's been two new users that joined at the same time at 454,164 and 151,831 KH . In the past week I was bumped from 6-8th to between 20-29th. At this point I'm thinking these people do have a decent amount of GPUs, but it is some sort of exploit that's allowing users to manage the difficulty of their shares while liteguardian believes they're at the dynamic difficulty the pool sets.
https://i.imgur.com/aEcInA8.png

It's just all the people realizing that chasing the ASICs for Bitcoin is a money losing proposition in most cases, while GPUs are still quite profitable with the right set of circumstances.

I've also dropped from 3rd at Coinotron to about 6th-12th.

Hi! Any news about that?

Couldn't it be these guys testing prototypes?

http://scryptasic.org/

 :D

Is it for real or I'm being trolled? https://cryptostocks.com/securities/54

ok must be fake.

"S.A.I Unit 1 – 50,000 Kh/s typical speed"

JUMPIN GEEEBAS :o

I smell another BaaFLaaAvalon ..

I suppose I should have put quotes around their so-called 'prototypes'  ;)

Suspicious units, I expect cgminer to switch to Gh/s for such high speeds
http://s21.postimg.org/9b4a86fhz/Unit_1_CGminer_Solo_Mining.png

Exactly!
Besides an ASIC chip that run at 45°C ? In my opinion it too low temperature.
Conclusion: 100% fake!

Ask them to show you the board.

I'd like to see the 25k blocks.

The best share is only 88.1K. ::)

They thought about that when writing their sale speach  ::)