Bitcoin Forum

Greetings!
I'm based in Taiwan, if you did some research, you will know most of the graphic cards are from this small but beautiful island  :D
I have a channel to get some local brand GPUs (ASUS, MSI, AORUS, etc.) with a good price now.
If you're interested, feel free to let me know!
Our price list:

1080Ti:
ASUS TURBO-GTX1080TI-11G - $770
AORUS GTX1080Ti 11G - $860
AORUS GTX1080Ti Waterforce X.E.11G - $940
EVGA GTX1080Ti FTW3 iCX 11G - $820
GALAX GTX1080Ti EXOC White 11GB - $740

Rx580 8G:
MSI ARMOR 8G - $400
ASUS DUAL RX580 - $350
Sapphire Nitro+ - $350
Dataland X-Serial - $330

Paypal G&S accepted, shipment will be handled by EMS or any other methods buyer preferred.
If you're interested in other brand/models, feel free to ask me for a quote!

Skype or e-mail? I'm interested.

Hi.

I've PM-ed you.

Please reply.

Thanks!

You can contact me by pm or email - cliffstudiotw@gmail.com

Thanks.

Replied, please check, thanks!

Skype or e-mail? I'm interested.

Are you just C&Ping the first reply?
Anyways, my email: cliffstudiotw@gmail.com

Im interested, you have in stock now? I can buy 30 cards

Hello, am interested in:

MSI ARMOR 8G - $400
ASUS DUAL RX580 - $350
Sapphire Nitro+ - $350

Also, any 1080ti, rx470, 570, 1070 and 1070ti that are available. 

Please send PM or email sales@coinminer.com, thanks

Interested in 1080ti email prochargedgt525@gmail.com

Be very carefull with this person, still own me money in btc. If he gonna give it back to me, i can say, at least he has been honorable to me, but only promises so far and no money back!

Would only deal in forum escrow only i would be very careful without escrow, thats how all things go bad real quick.

Proof?

I confirm I still own the bitcoin, however, I already told him I have already sent out the bitcoin, but there's a delay in the online wallet I'm using, due to Chinese New Year, and they are not fixing it because they're on holiday, with proof attached.
Besides, the only reason I owned his bitcoin is because he sent me a PayPal payment, and it was put on hold immediately, due to "suspicious activity". That's why he agreed to send me BTC at first place. So I wonder who should we be careful of?

Just to everyone to know, I placed an order for 1 GPU (as a test) with this seller. I am going to use PayPal. I am waiting for his reply to continue trade.

Can buy 100 1080 Ti, If you use forum escrow. We can even start with small order like 12 GPU. But without forum escrow, I won't even send payment for 1 card.
I can arrange letter of credit from banks too, if you want to go through that.

Update:
I received PayPal invoice from seller. There was no my company name or address, I asked seller to update invoice and send me again.

There is many in this forum, I can trust with my fund.

is this seller legit?

Sent you an email about the details, please check, thanks.

Hello, first of all, thanks for interested in our service.
For your question -
As I'm just a middle man, who just pick up the items for you from local (I think it's somehow like dropshipping tbh).
And, I have to be honest with you, I don't have the ability to cover 500+ 1000+ 2000+ cards for customers in advance, thus regular forum escrow won't work for us.
So it's very unfortunate, but currently we can only accept PayPal G&S as payment at latest.
You're also welcomed to fly here and meet me in person to check the legitimate of my business, but still, I will need your payment first before I can make the order for you.
It's not only my terms, but the suppliers, so I don't really have much control on this, please understand.
Maybe when we have enough fund and stock in the future, we will start to consider forum escrow.
But currently, though we have sufficient stock, but it's still not enough to cover all the demand from all over the world.
So at this stage, we will only accept those who can accept our terms, and we will reserve the items for them first.
There're some members have already made order with me, so you may want to hear their feedback before ordering from us.
However, the demand becoming higher and higher, and the price changes every moment.
So I can't give you a promise that I can still get you the same deal when you want to make an order with us, especially there's lack of production during Chinese New Year.
I hope this answered your question, and I hope you understand.
If you have any other questions, feel free to let me know, I will do my best to answer.
Thanks.

Can you give me some details about shipping costs and time to Europe (Germany)?

Hello,
It depends on the volume (weight) and carrier.
For EMS (International Express Mail Service), the breakdown is like this:

1KG - $30
5KG - $60
10KG - $100
15KG - $140
20KG - $180

If you need more breakdown, feel free to let me know.
For EMS delivery time, it will take 5-7 days for the item to reach you (if there's no Customs delay on your side).
Tracking number will be provided, so you can check the status yourself.
If you have any other carrier option, feel free to let me know, I can try to cooperate with you.

Do you have access to any 1070’s or 1070ti’s?

So has anyone got gear from him or is he a fake?

It is highly amusing to me when users are fake/scamming by pretending to have hardware and miners they do not they still charge a higher price than trusted people like philipma1957. Your prices are good, of course, but not the best and your profile comes with all sorts of doubts, suspicions and potential headaches. I do not think anybody would/should be purchasing from you unless there is an escrow with very favorable terms. I would be concerned about counterfeits, faulty equipment, no equipment and more.

His trust ratings seem a bit off as well, another Newbie lent him $100+ and then vouched for him after repayment like crazy. As if he was either, extremely surprised about repayment, or trying to oversell their character/loan.


This tells me everything that I need to know. You do not operate in Bitcoin, yet you trying to operate on Bitcointalk and claiming to have connections to GPU manufacturers and bitcoin mining hardware. This is nonsense, nobody here uses Paypal and for good reason; although I suppose most of the risk in this scenario would fall on you. I would expect somebody to attempt something annoying through Paypal, many buyers will charge-back.

Forum escrow doesn't work for you? That's laughable. If you are unwilling or unable to use an escrow, then you better be willing to send the unit first (with your reputation) or sell nothing.


If somebody was going to go through all of the trouble to fly there, why wouldn't we just deal directly with these local manufacturers? It would seem silly to deal with the middleman if we came all of the way just to still pay you (a random person) in advance as opposed to a manufacturing company with more reputation.


I'm very interested in hearing from these users. I have not heard a single user that has received anything from you. Just a few dodgy trust feedback ratings.


Oh, the classic "Buy today, because the scam will be revealed tomorrow" routine. If I'm wrong about you I would be happy to eat my words and throw you an apology. As of right now though, this is screaming nonsense and red-flags galore to me.

1. My price may not be the best, as ofc, I take middleman fees. However, I have stable source, and I think that's the most important right now.
2. Again, someone finally jump out and doubt about the loan before. This has been an old topic, and we have already agreed to provide all the proof to prove its legitimate. But still, no one seems to be care about this, they just want to be hater, that's all. If you have any idea on what can I do to satisfy you, I'm listening. Oh, and actually he loan me $1200 in the end, if you checked my another thread, and it was ofc, repaid in full.
3. Ofc I know there's a risk for PayPal, that's why I will do everything to make sure there's a proof I can provide to PayPal, if there's a dispute. And this should be my problem, not yours.
4. I'm selling here because this is bitcoin forum, just like people selling 2 hand item on 2 hand item forum. I'm the seller, and I think I have the right to propose my terms. You can either accept, reject, or negotiate with me, but my terms are there.
5. I never said you can't do that, did I? This sounds funny to me, because if everyone has source to everything, then there won't have any agent, middleman, dropshipping business exist. And I think if you have the source, you wouldn't come in to this thread at first place. This is what makes me different, I have the resource, and you don't, face it.
6. I can't expose my customers, unless they're willing to speak out themselves. All I can tell you is, I have 5 members ordering from me. 3 from NA, and 2 from EU. 2 of them can't wait for delivery delay caused by CNY, and I promised them for a refund, one has been fully refunded by PayPal, and one (michalss) has been refunded either, but still waiting for system to process, which seems will be done by Tuesday when the support back to work. The item for other 3 buyers will be delivered by next week, when CNY is over. So feel free to hear their feedback after they received the items, before you ordering from me or judge me.
5. TBH, I don't think there's much to discuss on my words about the stocks and price. I'm just telling the truth and I don't see there's any problem.

I'm sorry if I seem to be aggressive with the comment above, I just really hate when people just jumping in and be a hater with their own skepticism. You have any doubt, you ask, and I will do my best to answer. But please don't call someone an ass when you're not even met him yet.

You still have provided nothing except empty words. All I've heard so far is that your $100 loan from a Newbie was actually a $1,200 loan, members sent you money and have not received product or refunds (your excuse is CNY, but that does not change facts).

You should not be exclusively accepting Paypal, period, this is the bitcointalk forum, not Paypaltalk. This is my problem, because this is my community.

You have a "right" to propose your items, the same way I have a right to criticize your lack of proof, evidence, reputation, records, your suspicious trust/trading/lending history and your usage of inferior and useless payment systems. I'm asking you questions and pointing out flaws of your business model; you would think this would be a welcome conversation instead of you getting defensive and whiny.

I'm not asking for an expose, I am asking for a single meaningful vouch, feedback or proof of anything (funds, hardware, "sources").

There is a lot to talk about your stock and prices. How much of a fee are you taking?

If you think I'm a hater, for wanting verification, safety and information then you are a pathetic vendor. That's not being a hater, that's being rational and seeing this pattern repeat itself one too many times.

P.S. Don't quote the whole post, quote what you are responding to or it is difficult to read. Also, space your sentences so they're not so hard on the eyes. 

I am fine with him  only accepting paypal.  But so far no one has gear.  I am not fine with that.

It is hard for me to look at this section  and pick a guy out as a scammer or not.  I also think paypal  is fine for the op to use.  Even paypal only is fine.

But  if 20 people buy from him using paypal  and no one gets gear and all 20 people need to put in a paypal claim  that is not fine.

So I simply ask has anyone received gear?

If so please show us some proof.

This section  has a lot of scams  really long list of them  I get tired of trying to sort them out.  I have better things to do in life.

I also have a conflict  of interest  as:

 a) I am a leading escrow guy
 b) I do sell gear


So this makes me a competitor to the op.

That is why I just ask  has anyone received gear from this thread?

Hi guys

I did try and purchase some gear off OP. Phil you may recall in your thread when I was asking about different branded cards. The deal fell through.

Here's how it went: I had a thread looking to buy cards and OP  responded. After some back and forth I decided to go through with a purchase of 6 cards using PayPal G&S.

After initial payment the payment was returned, it was a larger payment and the funds were in hold in Op's account.

He then invoiced me for 3 separate orders broken down into 3 cards each and one including shipping.

After payment we did communicate daily for 2 days as I tried to verify he placed the order or had the cards. He then contacted me presumably from his shop or the shop he purchases from, saying he had different cards on hand and that they would be a little cheaper, or I could pay a little more and step up to different cards.

This was a second flag for me the first being the returned funds, this one because in the PayPal terms multiple payments for 1 item voids the protection.

I had opted for the cheaper cards and a partial refund.

After this he began to ask where in Canada I was presumably he was thinking of delivering the cards to me, as he said he was coming for a business trip; first time it was mentioned. I told him I wanted the cards shipped.

I heard nothing for 3 days then started a dispute with PayPal. At this poi t OP contacted me and said he couldn't do business with someone like me, even though I said if he could prove shipment or ownership of the cards I would drop the dispute. At this poi t he was also apparently landing in Ottawa.

I received all my funds back through PayPal. So there was no loss in my part. And we parted ways.

Here's the walk-through for this trade -
We agreed a deal -> Buyer paid first payment -> Payment on hold -> Refund -> Separated Payment -> Buyer paid at 1am my time and start to claim he would file a dispute when it's 8:30am 11:46 my time ->
I replied at 1pm my time, explained that I have been in China, and I could not be very responsive due to the "big wall", with store and items pic attached, and the buyer was aware of the situation ->
I asked if buyer want to switch the order to Sapphire instead of his original MSI order, as the later one would take days to arrive, but I have Sapphire/Dataland in hand at that moment, and the price is cheaper ->
Buyer agreed, and I raised the topic about how would he like to handle the price gap ->
Buyer choose partial refund, and I agreed I will refund him when I have access to my account, cause the connection was bad ->
I asked if where the buyer based in Canada, and told him that I'd drop by Canada for a business trip -> Buyer replied and I started my trip from Zhejian to Beijing -> 2 days later I received a phone call from PayPal, they said my account was limited because someone filed a dispute, at that time I just arrive Beijing -> I checked my emails and found out the buyer filed an dispute -> though the buyer promise he will retreats the dispute after received the item, I told him he's casing damage to my account, and it was not really a good trade experience, so I told him I can't do the trade with him, and will send him refund once I reached Canada -> Refund sent
I agree I had some manner on this trade, however, imagine buyer started to be anxious when you're in China, where the internet is controlled, and filed a dispute when the processing time of the international trade took less than 5 days. I'd like to apologize for my hassle behavior at that time, I was quite stressed.

Update:
I've ordered 1 GPU. I received PDF invoice and PayPal's request for payment invoice with all details I needed. I paid full amount on PayPal today. My GPU is supposed to be shipped around next Friday, 23.02.2018.

Will update here once I got any more news.

I agree, tbh, I'm just like a new seller trying to establish reputation on eBay. I don't have reputation doesn't mean I'm a scammer, and I don't deserve to be criticized like that either. You can wait until there's a feedback, that's fine with me.

I agree, I don't like PayPal either, but that's the only way that I can do the business now, it provide buyer protection, while I can use buyer's payment to pay for the items.
I agree this is Bitcointalk forum, and I think any BTC related topic can be discussed here. For me, GPU is BTC related topic now. If only BTC can be discussed here, then altcoin and currency exchange section should not be existed in this forum.

I don't mind you asking questions, however, I'd prefer it to be like normal Q&A, your comment is making me feel like you just want to crack me with your own skepticism. If not, I apologize.

Feel free to hit me with any question, however I can't answer you about the fees I'm taking, majorly because it's not simple, and as a normal business man, I think it's better to keep it as secret too. I can only say it has been included in the price.

Again, I never said you can't ask questions, but it'd be much appreciated if you can go with less aggressive comment.

Thanks for your advice, much appreciated.

Started a transaction with seller via PayPal for a couple of cards that are supposed to ship out Friday via EMS; I will document the entirety of the transaction here good or bad.

I can't vouch for the seller but I don't see anything wrong with using Paypal. I think it is safer than sending Bitcoin. I would never send Bitcoin to someone I didn't know unless an escrow service was involved. 

I confirm I'm trading with this user, I hope this could be a good start for either of us.
Thanks.

I'm also in the process of a transaction with the seller, so far he seems very pleasant and easy to communicate with. I'll report back here with feedback once the GPUs arrive. :)

Yes I wish everything had gone differently.

As I said when our deal fell through, make sure you communicate timelines accurately and execute them in a timely fashion. Also if you are going to be out of communication for a few days let people know.

I became worried when I  wasn't hearing anything from you and I reviewed your post history. A few things or ideas expressed did cause me concern.

All in all, our deal just resulted in both of us wasting time, and missing out on hardware or money. The seller did refund me fully and we went our separate ways.

As you can now see, not that I have a massive amount of trust built up, you would have had an easier time arranging your sales. I wish you the best in your dealings and that all deals meet everyone's expectations.

https://blockchain.info/tx/c232f0b1cf574865432423cf5197e91a834b16870d7b9ff475535f57b18014fd
Your BTC is with you now.

Do you have skype or telegram, where we can talk ?

I can confirm it i have my money back also have to say Communication with person is nice and easy, also to give me my money back shows that he could be at least trusted with this kind of things(i hope this delay was caused by CNY), however i cannot confirm if user has any gpus yet...

Also wanna say PayPal is good way to operate, nothing agains it to be honest..

Thank you, I hope things could be different too.
Sorry for being rude at that time, as I was just eager to fix the problem, and don't want you to think I am a scammer.
Anyways, if there's a chance, I hope we will have the opportunity to trade again in the future.
Thanks.

You can contact me by email: cliffstudiotw@gmail.com
Or Skype: kii552007
Thanks.

Sent you skype request.

Quick update - First batch of item has been shipped out
2nd batch will be handled tomorrow

I've ordered a motherboard from this guy as a test, he did say 7-10 days for shipping paid and will document the process to see if anything changes or nothing comes through.

I confirm the order with this member.
I just found out we have a more competitive price on MOBO than GPUs.
So if there's a need of MOBO, you can contact me as well.
Thanks.

as and when he sends me tracking information I will post information below so everyone can track progress.

I have some faith in this guy, yes the pricing is good but is also very nice to talk to!

The prices especially for the 1080 ti's seem too good to be true. Even used cards on ebay are not this cheap.

The dude could probably sell 1080ti's all day on amazon for $1,000 at this point.

That may be so, but he does seem honest with refunding people who weren’t happy with the service they were receiving.

Which mobo do you have access to?

It's clear kii552007_alt is a scammer. He's the same Cliff Chang skype user kii552007 from taiwan that scammed a bunch of people with his one stop production Cliff Studio. His MO is either to buy it himself to give himself good review and show "proof" he's real or just run away with the money.

thats the good thing about paypal, if it ends up being a scam then we'll get our money back.

As Steamtyme mentioned, there are ways to get around paypal's protection.

I can't speak for that particular order but I will say for my orders, I made a single payment for each order via Paypal/Credit Card so that I would be covered on both ends if something went sideways.

I just reported kii552007 to skype customer support (not that useless report feature but actually getting in contact with customer support) and submitted the evidence of his scam. If any of you lose contact with him on skype, you will know why.

The prices is really good , i am waiting for some good review and i might order some cards from you . But I am also wondering why would you sell with this prices here , while you can simply sell with higher prices on amazon or any other reputable site  . With this prices your cards wont stay for even 1 hour on amazon they will be instant sold .

Anyway once a trusted member confirms that you are legit , I will be looking forward to deal with you .

I'll be dropping by Taiwan in March. Maybe we could meet up and arrange some deals?

Seller contacted me and claimed to have shipped my order. I’ll keep an eye on EMS tracking over the next few days and see what it says. Would have liked to have seen photos of product before shipment, so not 100% convinced yet, but time will tell

If I see some valid vouches from users that have placed and received their orders from OP I would happily take back every criticism I've voiced so far.

You mentioned that you have an even more competitive price on Motherboards: I'm wondering if you have access to or can provide Z97 Motherboards?

Would love to get an order planned, and if everything goes well with others I would be happy to give you the chance that vendors deserve. Although, it is not reassuring that there is another user claiming you have a history of scamming. They haven't provided proof though, so I won't jump into the witch hunt.

Don't be an unwitting accomplish by failing for the classic scam of vouching for the guy for a single legit order thereby making others trust the dude. Then after a big order from lots of people where lots of money is involved, he runs.

I've been in contact with other victims. Skype and the police are slow in their investigation thereby allowing him a window to scam more people, but if anybody needs proof then you can search for Cliff Chang Studio Upwork. His profile got banned for being a scammer, but thanks to a bug on their platform, if you search on mobile you'll be able to see his profile and see it's the same guy asking for a loan for his "business" on the forum. If he says he set his profile to private, that's BS because then why have mobile be public?

OP has not replied on this thread for a couple days now.

Several direct questions have been asked with no answers ... red flags here

I’m not vouching for anything until I receive product. I have and will merely state the facts as I work through the transaction.

Also searching based on what you’ve posted yielded no info, so I can’t speak to the legitimacy of your claims.

Update:

18/02/2018 I purchased GPU, seller confirmed receiving funds from me on PayPal
23/02/2018 Yesterday, order supposed to be shipped Friday
24/02/2018 Today, I messaged the seller where is my shipping number, waiting for answer.

I got an EMS number today, tracking just says label created so it’s not actually shipped, but I’m remaining hopeful for now.

If you used google you might not find it but here's search links on different search engines and it's the first link that comes up.

Duck Duck Go
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cliff+chang+studio+upwork&t=hf&ia=web

Bing
https://www.bing.com/search?q=cliff+chang+studio+upwork&pc=MOZI&form=MOZSBR

Yahoo (really long link so I'll hyper link it)
https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A2KLfR6zCJJaLtQARR1XNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10BGdwcmlkA3BKeFQ0ZnRFU2JPaldmYk93bE82MUEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzQEb3JpZ2luA3NlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMwBHFzdHJsAzIyBHF1ZXJ5A2NsaWZmJTIwY2hhbmclMjBzdHVkaW8EdF9zdG1wAzE1MTk1MTk5MzQ-?p=cliff+chang+studio&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t&fp=1 (https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A2KLfR6zCJJaLtQARR1XNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10BGdwcmlkA3BKeFQ0ZnRFU2JPaldmYk93bE82MUEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzQEb3JpZ2luA3NlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMwBHFzdHJsAzIyBHF1ZXJ5A2NsaWZmJTIwY2hhbmclMjBzdHVkaW8EdF9zdG1wAzE1MTk1MTk5MzQ-?p=cliff+chang+studio&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t&fp=1)

What’s the point, none of that shows anything. It just shows his business on Taiwan, nothing that says he’s a scammer.

Like I said, if you click on the profile link, you'll see it got removed because he got banned. Yet if you click the link on mobile, you'll see it it's a copy paste of his loan thread. The point is he's the same person selling you the graphics card. You don't have to believe me, but red flag are everywhere even if I didn't post anything.

Did you receive tracking?

I'd like to officially withdraw my interest in even knowing what price you'd say for motherboards. It seems to only make sense if I wait to even discuss anything, because at this point it seems as though there are many people that have placed orders. All I can do is wait to see how they turn out; a few people are claiming to have tracking numbers, but they have not shipped yet and were told they would ship Friday. I would say if there is no movement on the tracking number by Monday, and you have not heard from the seller a good reason why, then I personally would begin the dispute process; better sooner than later.

I hope I hear good outcomes, please everyone that has posted their orders publicly keep us updated or I am to assume that your orders are going well.

Story sounds pretty familiar. Glad I posted my experience; I hope it helped people stay on the right side of buyer protection.
With any luck everyone lost the same thing I did... time.

Still no movement on the tracking number, it’s still in “label created” status. No replies to PMs or posts in this thread from the seller either. Starting to get a little nervous. What’s the risk of holding off on filing a PayPal dispute a couple more days?  :-\

What’s the risk of not doing so immediately? I’m not too familiar with PayPal scams, was under the impression you had 180 days buyer protection?  ???

There is no risk in waiting a few days to file a claim.
You will only have an issue if you already made a mistake (paying in 2 payments for 1 item, send it via friends and family)
When I filled mine I was using it as a tool to force action on the sellers part. He responded within hours of the claim; then took offence ( even though the dispute/claim can be cancelled if he just fulfilled his end of the deal)

So all you are down to is losing time.

Also, paypal is not an escrow. The longer you wait, the more time scammer has to run with the money. Paypal will refund you out of pocket, but the lost money helps the scammer make a living scamming more people.

OP, can you provide picture of hardware or paid receipts for hardware, or EMS receipts? I need something to see that you shipped my hardware, otherwise I will fill PayPal claim to get my money back and I will leave negative feedback on your profile if that is going to be resolved as scam.

As Steamtyme said, mostly time is what you will lose, but time is money and money/investments compound as time passes. Time is too costly to waste; as far as PayPal is concerned though, they are on the buyer's side, especially if multiple disputes arise simultaneously. There is no rush to file a dispute, and in fact PayPal would probably see a few extra days as generous on your behalf; this shows you were willing to give the "merchant" extra time to resolve any issues that may have arisen on their side.

If I had to guess, OP probably just wanted funds in their PayPal to attempt to withdraw ASAP so that it popped into their bank account. This way once thee disputes are settled, their PayPal will be negative, the buyer gets their funds back and OP has funds in their bank account. The outcome is that OP (assuming this is the case) will have more funds and the buyer will have less time. They even could've tried using their PayPal as a self-escrow to get the funds into another PayPal account, freezing/negative on the "escrow" account.

Interesting, on the day I decided to order the motherboard, he refunded me.. However it takes 7 days for the refund to come through once you WITHDRAW into your bank account.

He had told me that he has not withdrawn the money, if he didn't withdraw the money why did paypal now say it's going to take 7 + days for a refund?

Fishy. Glad he refunded me anyways.

That’s why I said file immediately.... force the hand of the person you are doing business with, especially if they have been unresponsive!  Just my $0.02

He just responded to me by PM saying he was picking up a delivery in a different city and would update the shipping information as soon as he got back. He also linked me some images of the GPUs in hand, but no forum username/date in the pictures, so they could be from anywhere.

you are all so inpatient ... he was writing that he get your money and then he place order with his supplier and it takes couple days for him to get cards. Dont stress so much, I will watch this drama and let's see :D if I was ordering I would order 1GPU to see all OK later more. So he need time to withdraw send money to supplier wait for order and then he ships.... he don't have a stock sitting in home.

It's not being impatient. It's not being naive and stupid. If you have different approach to business with complete strangers on anonymous international forum, than that's your problem.

Ok so still no movement, little to no response from the seller by PM, and no replies in this thread from him. I was really hoping this was legit but the red flags are becoming too hard to ignore, so guess I will have to file a PayPal dispute today if I don’t see movement on the tracking number. Sigh. :(

Feedback left on scammers account. Will remove if this turned to be legit, which I doubt very much.
Also claim opened on PayPal:

OP has taken multiple orders from multiple users, nobody has seen their order shipped. I've left feedback on their profile and hopefully we can get a DT member to do the same. OP's last post was over 5-days ago, yet they were active on the forum yesterday. It is clear, in my opinion, they are avoiding this thread and trying to lead users on for a bit longer through PM. Multiple people have gotten the same run around story, about tracking numbers and what not, yet the seller is absurdly late on delivering what they are promising without explanation.

If anybody has yet to file a dispute I would highly encourage you to do so at this point.

I would tag him in a day or 2 but I need people to prove they have been ripped off.

I’m still waiting as well. I have an EMS tracking but whether it didn’t ship or it’s just EMS not tracking properly I don’t know yet. All I can do is wait a bit and see what happens. I already have paypal claim in and will cancel it if I receive cards.

I do love to see such vigilence here.. bummer. I wanted to buy.

Roger that Phil, I've begun a Scam Accusation thread against OP to either get the proof or resolve the issue.

Anyone that has placed an order, sent OP money, received tracking numbers or exchanging PMs with OP please contribute to the thread. We can get this user tagged, if we can prove that they are playing games and ripping you guys off through lies and deceit. I've laid the ground-work, I just need PM/Chat-Log contributions, maybe proof of payment if you're willing to provide that and the tracking number (again, if you're willing to provide that). Anything is helpful towards resolving this issue.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3034340

Go to this thread, share your story and evidence. I will take back everything I've said, lock the thread and do whatever else I can possible do if this turns out by some miracle to be legitimate. I appreciate Phil taking the conservative path and not immediately tagging this user, but at this point I am convinced they are a scammer.


I was in the same boat, but it's pretty common that a scammer's price will make you want to buy

I don't know the details of anyone's orders. I know with mine he did have a few offers/compromises that had the potential to void my PayPal protection at least in part.  

If you look back in his posts which is something I did he had one where he mentions to someone the scenario of running away with PayPal released funds before a claim is filed; but states he wouldn't do that.

The reason he did not make off with any money on my deal was the amount of money involved was held and not released by PayPal. I also did not mess around with his lack of communication, 3 days with nothing and bam filed a dispute.

Good luck to everyone I hope it was all done through PayPal or trusted escrow. He may have gotten some money if they did not hold all amounts on his account, but atleast the buyer would be protected.

So I spoke with the guy below via Skype who said he bought a rx 580 and received it. He said the seller messaged him directly after seeing his thread and he ended up buying an rx 580 and received it already. Take it with a grain of salt.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2853996.0

Post with evidence added to scam accusation thread.

Thank you very much,  hopefully this will encourage more users to do the same. If this user is legitimate, I'm just looking for an explanation; if this user is scamming, which I believe to be the case, then I'd like to get this resolved to prevent anything more from happening.


How did you come into contact with this user? I can't see anything that is linking this user and OP. Did they message you or did you message them first, and either way how did you know to do so? I'd like if we could gather our complaints/vouches in one place to sort this out.


You should post your experience with proofs in the scam accusation thread, this would be very helpful in getting things rolling. His attempt at your funds is a very significant piece of the puzzle.

The OP’s partner has been speaking with me today as well as the OP himself. The OP made a quick vid of my cards but it didn’t prove they were shipped. Just showed the cards and an EMS label.

The partner directed me to the OP of that other thread via Skype. Upon talking to him he told me that he had paid for a card the first week of Feb and receive led it on the 26th. I asked the buyer if he came across the seller on bitcointalk and he said yes. Apparently he had a thread looking for a card and the seller contacted him and he ended up buying a rx 580 to be shipped to Canada. The buyer don’t have a link to his thread but gave me his username so I searched until I found his thread.

Like I said, take all of the above with a grain of salt. Nothing can be proved one way or another until something shows up. I too have opened a claim, if the cards show up then I’ll drop the claim. Seller seems to have access to cards at least from the time stamped photos he sent me at his stores with cards. Will keep this thread updated if anything changes.

https://imgur.com/a/bg23S
https://imgur.com/a/jjaCS

It was accompanied by a short vid of the cards with a paper timestamp with his name and mine.

Hi, everyone. I'm the OP's partner. This is going to be a long post to try to give you insight into what I know.

I have no history on the forum, so you'll have to ask quick1unc and kebabman to verify I'm the person they talked to on Skype after they filed their PayPal claims.

So if I were in your shoes, I'd want some peace about this situation, and OP is... well... he's bad at communicating. Consistently anyway. Which is bad. Not necessarily scammy, but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence. And my experience with him is that he's overly optimistic on delivery times, which has probably entered into this equation.

2 things I want to say before I give some history:

1. If this is a scam, I'm the mark and not you. Why? It's my PayPal account/balance at risk. If you're one of the 3 open orders that paid me and everything goes south, you're actually still in good shape from a transaction perspective. PayPal will refund you. Downside is PayPal is slow. Upside, you get your money back. So, we'll all see what happens and I'll be really sorry for all of us if this goes haywire.

2. Presently, I believe you'll get the cards, but based on the timeline from the one verified completed purchase with BCT user unc0nnected, it may take up to 3 weeks to arrive. (Ask quick1unc to verify he spoke with him on Skype. For what it's worth, I believe that transaction to be 100% legit. More about that toward the bottom.)

So let me back up and tell you what I know. Some of this will be unrelated to GPU cards, and my estimated dates might be a little off, but I want to give you context.

I've worked with kii552007_alt for about 8 months. Talked with him almost everyday. I know him by his English first name + Chinese last name. I've talked to him on Skype, both chat and face-to-face.

I first met him via UpWork around June 2017 where I ordered some anime style art from his anime/manga art studio. First a few small orders, then larger ones, then bigger multi-thousand dollar deals. All these bigger deals were direct - not via UpWork/PayPal or any escrow system. During all of these deals, he was incorrigibly honest. We agreed in advance on prices, deadlines, discounts, reimbursements, etc - and we always honored our agreements with each other down to a penny. Two times stand out as worth mentioning regarding his character when things didn't go well - once I wasn't satisfied with the quality of one of the pieces of artwork, and he personally paid a different artist to do a better version - basically delivering 2 things for the price of one. Another time we had a big deal paid upfront where he couldn't complete it, so he paid me back a huge chunk for the uncompleted portion. That was actually the conclusion of my art deal with the OP as I had hired an in-house artist at that point.

Around late January, I'd already been researching other current commercial trends like dropshipping or private labeling goods from China. OP approached me to ask if I'd have any interest in dropshipping GPUs. At this point the only thing I knew was: (1) the OP had proven himself trustworthy (2) GPU sales could be a good opportunity

So I took the risk of acting as a dropshipper for the OP for a few test orders for a fairly small margin.

The question you should ask is, "Why did you think OP would want you as a middleman when he could just sell direct?"

Based on our previously dealings, I knew there is an issue with PayPal and Taiwan.
https://www.paypal.com/tw/webapps/mpp/system-enhancement-faq?locale.x=en_TW

Since September 15, 2015, Taiwanese citizens can have a PayPal account in order to take international payments, BUT they can't use its balance to trade with people inside the country. So this presented a problem for OP. Buyers typically either want escrow or PayPal for protection, but he can't do escrow because he doesn't have capital, so that leaves PayPal. Distributors within Taiwan want cash. So how can he go from PayPal to TWD? He can't trade it for cash with anyone inside the country. But the other bigger problem is that PayPal will often hold the money Taiwanese receive seemingly at random for 10+ days, and from my experience attempting to use PayPal with OP, at a much higher percentage likelihood than citizens of other countries. (Although, admiteddly, that could be sample size n=1 issue.)

So by acting as a non-stocking retailer, I could take the payment as PayPal and send it to him in some other way. The end goal was to do a few orders this way to see how things went, then switch to a more traditional importer approach in which I'd buy inventory and sell from the US.

I sent 5 invoices for orders.
1 invoice was paid but was instantly withheld by PayPal, possibly because the buyer had an unconfirmed address, but I'm not sure. Rather than attempt to resolve this issue, I refunded them in full.
1 invoice never paid so I proactively cancelled the invoice.
3 invoices paid and I used those funds to pay OP to purchase cards and send them on (regardless of what happens next, they'll get their money back, but yes OP literally received that money)

By the time I sent invoices, OP had already been talking with at least 1 person and arranged a small order
The one happy buyer I know of is BCT user unc0nnected, who I also think is his first buyer. I've spoken with him on Skype. quick1unc has spoken with him. As much as anyone can ever know anything about a person, he seems legit, and his story checks out with screenshots I've seen from OP's phone of shipping notifications.
- He paid OP on Feb 5 for an RX580.
- OP says he managed to get the RX580 to the local post office on Feb 10, just before Chinese New Year
- OP gave unc0nnected the EMS number on the date it hit Customs on Feb 21. unc0nnected says the tracking number immediately worked on this date.
- unc0nnected received the package Feb 26 and is happy with it.

I think I saw someone have a question about receipts.
Google: "Uniform Invoice lottery"
In Taiwan, it seems to be, that businesses will sometimes give you a discount if you choose not to get a receipt, essentially helping them dodge sales tax. They've attempted to fight this problem by turning receipts into lottery tickets, but OP is obliging his suppliers by not taking the receipts.

The only thing I can think of now, is that there's hope in unc0nnected's story. There is a disconnect in Taiwan between the mailed date, and the date that the EMS number works. While a shipper could pay EMS extra to track both inside Taiwan and Internationally, my understanding is that OP arranged it so only the international portion of the trip would have tracking.

At best, it takes awhile to arrive.
At worst, you get your money back, and I'm screwed.

I'm in contact with OP as recently as a few hours ago.

Why isn't he talking on here?

According to him, he feels that his limited English is not helping with making people feel more safe about this transaction, and instead, simply adds fuel to making them distrust him more. And he feels like the proof will be when packages arrive in the mail and everyone is happy from his actions and not his words.

I have more to lose than anyone, but I think it will all check out in the end. We'll see soon enough.

So far all of this is useless evidence I could cook up with an hour of work.

Let's get pics with proof from a decently old account here, then I'll send you $$$.

Nothing you said holds any water.


What does that have to do with anything? I know many in Taiwan who use paypal, withdraw to their bank account, and get cash no problem. If OP has a problem then it's because paypal's algorithm suspects him of being a scammer and will hold the money.


Scammers use other people's account to do their dirty work. The fact he's used your account instead of his own should have raised a big red flag.


Again, what does that have to do with anything? Because other people are disobeying the law, he helps them with it? Everybody knows when dealing with online shipping and such, people want receipt, tracking, and any other info. Nothing but poor excuses.


BULLSHIT!! Read any of his post and you'll see there's no problem with English. His upwork profile even had him as 1st in the English test while many other top translators are around the 95% range.

He's working the same scam he did on upwork before he got banned for scamming. Full fill small orders to seem legit, than run away with the big orders.

If I get a chance this evening I'll post what inhale to the accusation thread

Since you are OP's partner and are handling the funds and what not, then you should have no problem hopping into the Scam Accusation thread and posting proof of everything you are doing. Proof of payments, explanations, chat-logs with OP, anything that would be tangible as evidence or proof of legitimacy.

OP must realize that by not responding within their own sales thread, which they were doing fine right up until orders started being placed then they are not going to have a successful transaction or long-term business. Refusing to respond to customers that have paid you and haven't received a package or valid tracking number is only going to result in lost time and refunds.

ATRD, Steamtyme, looperjack and anyone else involved should say their piece in the Accusation thread. OP's English is fine, the excuses are getting more and more ridiculous and desperate. We really need to see some packages, valid shipping numbers and better customer service response if you want any chance of this taking off.

To this partner/reseller whoever you are:

Your mate sold me hardware, gave me false tracking number. I opened claim on PayPal and I will have my money back, I don't need to speak with you or to seller anymore, you are both burned and you can go away at this point.

I'll try to address some of the recent comments in this post.

First I'll reiterate:

1. If it's a scam, I'm facing the transactional consequences via PayPal and not you.
2. Presently, I think that it's not a scam based on my past experience with OP, but the timeline for determining the truth may be more like 21 days than 5-7 based on BCT user unc0nnected's experience. Because unc0nnected's EMS tracking began working 14 days after payment, and based on current open orders, I would probably agree that I am being scammed on March 7 (14 days after transaction) if no one's EMS tracking is working.

Since my last post the following points were raised:

soothaa (paraphrased) - This is useless evidence. Pics with proof of old account and I'd send money.

- "I'd send money" - Let's get this out of the way first. Even if you offered it, I would not take anyone's money presently. I would instantly refund it. Taking it would only elevate my risk.
- I would wholeheartedly agree that my words do not serve as evidence. The purpose, at least in my mind, to talk here is not to provide evidentiary claims. It's providing context to help you decide if a scam is occuring since I have more insight into this and am, in fact, the potential scam target.
- The same unconvincing pics that exist in the thread already - are, for the most part, the same pics I have. I have
1. 1 picture quick1unc didn't post for privacy reasons I imagine, but are equally imperfect in regards to proof of purchase.
2. 1 screenshot quick1unc sent me showing unc0nnected's EMS tracking from Taiwan's Airport to Canada that demonstrated tracking does not include in-country travel, only travel after Airport Customs
3. Some screenshots from the OP of tracking info from the Canadian Post to unc0nnected's house, but I doubt those would rise to the level of proof without doxing unc0nnected.

In my estimation, I do not have sufficiently convincing pics of products that could resolve all doubt that I am being scammed.

Only an extended timeline will tell with any certainty if I am being scammed at this point.  If there are specific claims (perhaps outlined?) and correlating evidence you think would prove those claims without a shadow of a doubt, I'll try to think if I have a method available to me to substantiate it, but I don't think I do.
- I do not have an old account. Certainly casts doubt on my statements, but hopefully quick1unc and kebabman can vouch for the fact that I am at least the same human who took their money based on our Skype conversations.

looperjack (paraphrased) - I know Taiwanese who use PayPal to withdraw to their bank accounts just fine. Scammers use other people's PayPal accounts - you should have known better. Lack of receipts is disobeying the law and a poor excuse for lack of evidence. His English is fine and he shouldn't be afraid of coming on here to talk.

- It's possible that Taiwanese do use PayPal to withdraw to TWD bank accounts. My experience is limited to Google searches on the topic, OP's claims in the context of a trustworthy capacity from June - December 2017, and PayPal's statement about the subject. If you could demonstrate that it is true that when you pay Taiwanese PayPal users, they often and easily can withdraw this money directly to a TWD bank account, it goes counter to what I understand about PayPal's statement, BUT if it's true, it would tilt my opinion more toward "I'm probably being scammed."
- While it's true that scammers use other people's PayPal accounts, I didn't have reason to believe I was part of a long con. Although, if I'm wrong and I'm being conned, I will adjust my tolerance for risk and suspicion accordingly going forward.
- I think it's fair to say that judging someone's skill at anything like English is a subjective task. In my estimation, the OP is correct that his level of English skill, given the lack of good pictures and the non-functioning EMS tracking, probably increases the community's suspicion that I am being scammed.


bill gator (paraphrased) - You should post proof of everything you're doing in the Scam Accusation thread. OP's lack of response is bad for his claims of interest in long-term business. OP's English level is fine and ridiculous desperate excuse. We need to packages, shipping numbers, better response.

- I'll admit I'm new here so I'm not sure what a Scam Accusation thread is (although quick1unc pointed it out to me), but I assume the purpose is to call into question a user's claims for the purpose of preventing them from doing more deals. First, I fully expect that if these deals go south, my account should be burned and this thread is sufficient to call the OP's claims into question.

Second, if this is a scam, since I am the one being scammed (from a transactional perspective), I'm not sure what proof would be sufficient to substantiate that I'm being scammed. Nor do I see what the value would be in proving that I am being scammed? Since I am not convinced of it yet myself, and have arbitrarily set my own persuasion evidence as EMS tracking on March 7, I cannot think of types of evidence that would reverse the claim that I, ATRD, am being scammed. I can say that on March 7, I will say I think I am being scammed if there's no EMS tracking.

Essentially, buyers are risking an amount they are willing to pay for cards, for up to 20 days (PayPal resolution dispute timeframe), to see if the OP turns around goods, and at the end of that time, the financial risk drops to $0. The question is, "Is OP stealing money from ATRD by passing money though his PayPal account and then not delivering goods?" While lack of pictures within the first 14 days casts doubt on OP's claims, it corresponds with unc0nnected's positive experience from what I can tell. The only 100% reliable method I can think of to answer, "Is OP lying to steal money from ATRD" is to wait until 14 days pass and see if by that time the EMS tracking is working. That would be roughly March 7. If it's not, then I'm screwed.
- I agree OP's lack of response is not good for long-term business. And yet, to the contrary, if people end up receiving packages, it would, at least in my subjective view as a buyer, set the foundation for people knowing that his customer service may be bad, but his products are good. This silence approach is not at all what I would do. In any case, unresponsiveness is not a perfect litmus test to determine a scam, though admittedly, often correlated.
- OP's English level is a subjectively determined metric. In my estimation, it may be good enough for conversation, but in the context of explaining a problem rife with cultural differences, poor English + poor customer service often acts as a variable to increase the expectation of fraud. While I have told him to jump in on the conversation anyway, he won't and says he'll wait till people get packages. Nothing I can do about that.
- I agree that all of our guesses about whether the OP is scamming me would be aided by better evidence.


crypto_curious - "Your mate sold me hardware, gave me false tracking number. I opened claim on PayPal and I will have my money back, I don't need to speak with you or to seller anymore, you are both burned and you can go away at this point."

- I'd feel the same way. We will learn soon enough (my guess is March 7) if the tracking number is not legit and then we will both discover if I have been scammed. I'm not attempting to save face here - I'm simply doing my best to provide context to this thread, and yes, absolutely my account should be burned if this is a scam.

Miscellaneous

While not a statement of evidence of any kind whatsoever, to attempt to clear my own head about the OP's claims, I spoke with friends who have lived in Taiwan recently and they indicated 2 weeks is not an unheard of amount of time between when a shipment arrives at a local post office until when it arrives at airport customs where EMS begins working.  This corresponds with unc0nnected's experience.

If anyone with experience living and working in Taiwan could provide evidence that this claim is false (perhaps a series of EMS tracking screenshots that show in-country transit notifications, and perhaps examples of similar shipments that moved much more quickly), that would also begin to convince me that this is a scam.

The screenshots quick1unc showed me from unc0nnected's EMS tracking indicate that EMS tracking numbers do not show transit notifications between local post office and airport customs.

One admitted problem I see presently is that the shipments, if they are occurring, are later than agreed to - they should begin to appear in EMS March 7. This is rather late. But not anything I can control as far as I can tell.

Cultural observation from which no conclusions can be drawn: Every Taiwanese American (whether American born or Taiwanese born) I spoke to whom I've known personally IRL told me to "Relax, it's probably still on the way." Nearly everyone else told me to panic.

Here you go from paypal itself. Both USD and TWD transfer with E.SUN Bank no problems that many people in Taiwan use with paypal.
https://www.paypal.com/tw/webapps/mpp/withdrawal-process?locale.x=en_TW

Although it's true transferring TWD to other bank in Taiwan will be a problem, there's is no problem with USD. There are lots of international banks such as Citi Bank in Taiwan that will accept the USD and convert it to TWD. So again, paypal in Taiwan has options so it isn't much of a problem.

This is good information. It increases my scam concerns. However I can confirm that he does not use either E.Sun or CitiBank. quick1inc can confirm he has seen a picture the OP took outside the bank where he picked up funds, and it is neither of these.

I can speculate that OP would want to avoid E.Sun's 2.5% withdrawal fee to keep his margins, but that's just speculation. OP has never said why he uses a different bank.

I can confirm that I received a pic in front of a bank with a handwritten note saying he was getting cash for the cards.
Appeared to be bank of Taiwan

At this point it almost doesn't matter whether they intend to send the cards or not. If you tell your customers that you are going to ship it on a certain date, then do not ship it and provide no contact or explanation then nobody is going to want to deal with you.

They were speaking fine until there was cause for concern and they had thousands of dollars in their hand. Then suddenly they disappear, leaving their partner holding the bag. If OP had explained how long the shipping process would take this would not be happening, however now it just feels as though they are explaining things away as we go along.

I'm still waiting for a response from the seller, or any solid evidence of a shipment. I hope your partner is not scamming you and everyone else, as you said you will know one way or the other by March 7th.

It's now March 7, and none of the EMS tracking numbers that I know of work.

Time has proven that I have been scammed by OP, a person I worked with extensively for 8 months, who either (1) planned an extensive long-con from the beginning or (2) he decided to destroy me just within the last month - I'm not sure which is worse, but 1 of those is true.

kebabman and quick1unc can verify that I proactively issued refunds on PayPal 3 days ago, as it had become clear that I had been scammed because OP had stopped replying.

I'm an idiot and I'm ashamed that I was fooled by someone I thought I knew.
And I'm ashamed that I played an unknowing role in dragging anyone else into this, and I ask for your forgiveness.

For my part, I have done all actions necessary to return everyone's money who sent it through me. I do not know how many other orders went through OP's PayPal (and I did not even know he was accepting orders outside of me when this all began), but I know quick1unc has filed a claim against OP's PayPal, and it would probably be wise for anyone else to do the same.

I will spend the next 6-24 months trying to figure out how to pay off my negative account balance.

I have no parting thought other than to say, I was wrong. You all were right. I'm sorry. I'm an idiot. I'm royally and irrevocably screwed.

One thing I’ve taken from this ordeal and actually applied to another scammer on here is never pay to a third parties PayPal account. Goldminer666 just tried the same thing. I always refuse now, not worth the hassle and possible setup to default someone else’s PayPal account.

OP’s partner has been nothing but forthright in my dealings with him and did issue refund once we were pretty sure it was a scam. Funds are scheduled to return to me tomorrow. Sorry it had to go down like that and that you got the short end of the stick. At least he did take some payments as well and has refused to take action so his account will likely be banned and we’ll still get the money back.

Not sure if this is the guy or the scammer pretend to be this guy, but there's a cliff chang with the same profile info as on upwork who works for Alpha CRC as a translator. https://www.linkedin.com/in/cliff-chang-13760822/

I suggest report to all authorities; local police, econsumer.gov, ic3.gov for us citizens and give whatever info about the guy.

Originally I was skeptical of you, because of your very convenient timing for entering into this entire situation on the forums. I did not know what to make of this new user claiming to be a partner with all of the connections and verification that they did. In the future I would run any sort of ideas like this in the future by somebody else or multiple people to see if they can poke holes in the idea. Critical thinking is necessary to not be taken advantage of or preyed upon by psychopaths and diligent scammers. They will try to work you over at some point in your life and let this be a lesson that sometimes optimism isn't the best path for your thinking. Do not feel ashamed, as it happens to the best of us, only allow this to improve yourself moving forward. You've acted very forthrightly during this entire process from the beginning. I have no reason to doubt anything you've said up to this point. I have a feeling that Cliff will pop up again and try to explain this way and get everyone on the hook for more time and money, do not let this happen and contact the relevant authorities.

You've done everything I can imagine to make this right from your end, saved a few people a lot of headaches by doing the right thing. I wish this business venture would've worked out better for you, and everyone else that was trying to purchase gear. This happened to someone that I knew back in the day and Paypal had no mercy, but they were unable to make payments after being scammed for thousands of dollars. Paypal tried to send it to a collections company and pursue legal action, but in the end the debt was dropped without incident. They were reasonable in the end upon realizing payment could not be made in any capacity. I do not know your personal situation, but this is my only anecdote relevant to this type of situation.