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Other => Serious discussion => Topic started by: Jet Cash on March 12, 2018, 09:40:55 AM



Title: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 12, 2018, 09:40:55 AM
When I first hear about it, I thought the timing seemed a bit odd, and, on the face of it, Russia would seem to have more to lose by his death at this time, than they have to gain. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they could have faked an accident rather than risk world condemnation.

Some background is strating to be found. It seems that it may be a contract killer, and not a Russian agent that was the perpetrator. There is also evidence that Skripal was associated with the Clintons, and recent investigations by Donald Trump seem to have resulted in a number of accidental and other deaths of people who may have been in a position to give evidence. Russia is starting to become a major world commercial power, and many of their changes must be worrying for the Deep State. Russia is producing some of the healthiest food in the world which will mess up their eugenics programme, and their oil exports supporting the Petro-Yuan must be damaging the dollar. I'm sure you are aware of many other actions by Russia that are helping us to move towards world peace. The Deep State hates world peace, and it loves war and the profits and death that result from it.

So what do you think? Was it a Deep State incident to attempt to destabilise world peace?


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: MJK_Anfaenger on March 14, 2018, 03:18:13 PM
I think Skripal's and Glushkov's deaths were Russian hit jobs. The used nerve gas, according to the newspapers I read, is of soviet origin. So either they used it themselves, which is bad, or they let it get taken from them, which is worse in a way. In any case, I don't think Russia has much to lose. In the eyes of the west it's a rouge state anyway and it's already heavily sanctioned. This might be a demonstration of power to the UK, EU and US, maybe? London's financial sector is heavily dependent on Russian money and because of Brexit they're more and more isolated, so maybe this is like a foretaste of what is to come?

On the other hand, being excluded from Swift or having the accounts of oligarchs frozen might threaten Putin's reign, so that puzzles me.

I'm not sure why you think that Russia is becoming a major world commercial power, though. It certainly doesn't show in the country's wealth. I've been there, just last year. Their supermarkets look deplorable, prices are pretty much the same and more compared to what I'm used to in Germany (where people have much higher average income) and maaany empty aisles. In a Subway I went to, they had to switch out the lettuce for cabbage cause they couldn't get any, due to sanctions. And so many Russians I talked to told me of the everyday corruption in the country. How money has to change hands to get things done. Parking ticket? Bribe. Doctor's visit? Bribe. That's just anecdotal evidence, but it certainly left an impression on me.

More generally speaking, the ruble is basically worthless right now and their GDP and economic growth has fallen drastically in the last few years. Plus, their economy is heavily dependent on selling crude oil. Global need for oil will shrink in the foreseeable future, what with the influx of electric cars and many states turning to cleaner energy. So I disagree with you... on pretty much everything you've said. Especially the deep state stuff. That seems a bit wild to me.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Schirer on March 14, 2018, 10:11:56 PM
When I first hear about it, I thought the timing seemed a bit odd, and, on the face of it, Russia would seem to have more to lose by his death at this time, than they have to gain. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they could have faked an accident rather than risk world condemnation.

Some background is strating to be found. It seems that it may be a contract killer, and not a Russian agent that was the perpetrator. There is also evidence that Skripal was associated with the Clintons, and recent investigations by Donald Trump seem to have resulted in a number of accidental and other deaths of people who may have been in a position to give evidence. Russia is starting to become a major world commercial power, and many of their changes must be worrying for the Deep State. Russia is producing some of the healthiest food in the world which will mess up their eugenics programme, and their oil exports supporting the Petro-Yuan must be damaging the dollar. I'm sure you are aware of many other actions by Russia that are helping us to move towards world peace. The Deep State hates world peace, and it loves war and the profits and death that result from it.

So what do you think? Was it a Deep State incident to attempt to destabilise world peace?

What they can lose rather than gain?
The timing is perfect, align with upcoming elections of Putin's imperial Russia.

And the manner how you describe the world peace efforts by Russia is very disturbing, you write in an intelligent manner but in the same time, you are completely on different plannet. Simple knowledge about Ukraine would make any intelegent man understand that Russia is very far from world peace and their gov has nothing, absolutely nothing to be proud of.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 15, 2018, 09:27:58 AM
When I first hear about it, I thought the timing seemed a bit odd, and, on the face of it, Russia would seem to have more to lose by his death at this time, than they have to gain. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they could have faked an accident rather than risk world condemnation.

Some background is strating to be found. It seems that it may be a contract killer, and not a Russian agent that was the perpetrator. There is also evidence that Skripal was associated with the Clintons, and recent investigations by Donald Trump seem to have resulted in a number of accidental and other deaths of people who may have been in a position to give evidence. Russia is starting to become a major world commercial power, and many of their changes must be worrying for the Deep State. Russia is producing some of the healthiest food in the world which will mess up their eugenics programme, and their oil exports supporting the Petro-Yuan must be damaging the dollar. I'm sure you are aware of many other actions by Russia that are helping us to move towards world peace. The Deep State hates world peace, and it loves war and the profits and death that result from it.

So what do you think? Was it a Deep State incident to attempt to destabilise world peace?

In my analysis it was a false flag and non-event designed to further swing public opinion against Russia. To further build the case for war against Russia (through BS and lies) - and a world war for that matter. They have zero proof that the Russians did it. The Russians are even willing to fully cooperate in any investigation, but have asked for a sample of the agent first.

The Russians had nothing to gain through the alleged attack. It is the hidden and warmongering controllers of corrupt Western officials who stand to benefit from it. They want war at any cost and don't care about how many people will lose their lives at either end, because they will hide in the safest countries and the best bunkers money can buy. They use false flag and non-events to scare the public into submission while pretending to be public protectors. They are using the same strategy to swing public opinion against decentralized cryptos in order to bring in centralized cryptos that will make it possible to control every transaction. In terms of the ongoing war against Russia, it is all about control and manipulating public opinion to justify an unjust hot war against Russia and her allies at the end of the day. This while encircling Russia with their armies and trying to gain first strike capability in terms of a nuclear strike.

Lucky for the world, the Russians have developed cutting edge nuclear capable weapons, designed to maintain a balance of power. However, make no mistake, when push comes to shove - the Russians will be left with no choice but to respond aggressively. They have so far been very patient and is in the business of advocating peace in a multi-polar world - a world where we can all get along, despite our differences.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on March 15, 2018, 03:57:12 PM
Well looking at the incident at face value it would be logical to assume Russia did it but things are not always as they seem and you have to look at what happens as a result of the incident. If somebody wanted to pin something on the Russians then it would be quite easy to make it look like it was them and the public would be fooled, but I would personally need more evidence before I made my mind up on either side. The Father and Daughter were found on a park bench in a very public place so there must have been quite a lot of CCTV of the attackers getting there.

https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/eb0d9c1/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fbf%2Fb891dd8a3a20790caf94bad2abe03a%2Ftag%3Areuters.com%2C2018%3Anewsml_LYNXNPEE2C1HP%3A12018-03-13T163256Z_1_LYNXNPEE2C1HP_RTROPTP_3_BRITAIN-RUSSIA.JPG

Also, isn't it a bit cliche for Russians to use a nerve agent and that specific one that would immediately draw ties to them? Why wouldn't they just quietly track them down and take them out with a bullet to the head or poison them in some other way (fentanyl has been used in assassinations and is quite effective in small doses). Something seems fishy to me but I wont jump to conclusions until I've seen more evidence either way.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 15, 2018, 04:56:34 PM
London's financial sector is heavily dependent on Russian money and because of Brexit they're more and more isolated, so maybe this is like a foretaste of what is to come?

On the other hand, being excluded from Swift or having the accounts of oligarchs frozen might threaten Putin's reign, so that puzzles me.


I'm not sure if you mean Russia or the UK is becoming more isolated. Shaking off the shackles of the Keiser Reich will release the UK from the isolation of the EU, and will allow it to rebuild its old trading relationships. Sanctioning Russia has been counter productive, and has led to the establishment of a Asian alternative to Swift, and I understand that this is being supported by the UK.

I'm a bit suspicious of the whole situation. I think the fact that the attempt failed may indicate that it wasn't a Russian military excercise. They don't seem to fail very often. The timing is also a bit suspicious. We know that the Deep State needs a major event to try to recover some of their declining power, and to create an alternative economy. A war is their tradition method of doing this, and I hope that reason will prevail, and we can avoid this. It wouldn't be difficult for the Deep State to get hold of some of the 20 year old poison, and it could be that the fact that it is old stock was the reason for its failure. Hopefully we will get some more information, so that we can establish the culpability and purpose of this event.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: signalbitbot on March 15, 2018, 08:43:38 PM
When I first hear about it, I thought the timing seemed a bit odd, and, on the face of it, Russia would seem to have more to lose by his death at this time, than they have to gain. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they could have faked an accident rather than risk world condemnation.

Some background is strating to be found. It seems that it may be a contract killer, and not a Russian agent that was the perpetrator. There is also evidence that Skripal was associated with the Clintons, and recent investigations by Donald Trump seem to have resulted in a number of accidental and other deaths of people who may have been in a position to give evidence. Russia is starting to become a major world commercial power, and many of their changes must be worrying for the Deep State. Russia is producing some of the healthiest food in the world which will mess up their eugenics programme, and their oil exports supporting the Petro-Yuan must be damaging the dollar. I'm sure you are aware of many other actions by Russia that are helping us to move towards world peace. The Deep State hates world peace, and it loves war and the profits and death that result from it.

So what do you think? Was it a Deep State incident to attempt to destabilise world peace?
This is a political game.
We need facts, as well as poisoned and what substances, analyzes, international. The media can write anything. From the news we can already conclude that the Russian special services are all-powerful and everywhere =)
You agree with me?


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: signalbitbot on March 15, 2018, 08:50:58 PM
Well looking at the incident at face value it would be logical to assume Russia did it but things are not always as they seem and you have to look at what happens as a result of the incident. If somebody wanted to pin something on the Russians then it would be quite easy to make it look like it was them and the public would be fooled, but I would personally need more evidence before I made my mind up on either side. The Father and Daughter were found on a park bench in a very public place so there must have been quite a lot of CCTV of the attackers getting there.

https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/eb0d9c1/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fbf%2Fb891dd8a3a20790caf94bad2abe03a%2Ftag%3Areuters.com%2C2018%3Anewsml_LYNXNPEE2C1HP%3A12018-03-13T163256Z_1_LYNXNPEE2C1HP_RTROPTP_3_BRITAIN-RUSSIA.JPG

Also, isn't it a bit cliche for Russians to use a nerve agent and that specific one that would immediately draw ties to them? Why wouldn't they just quietly track them down and take them out with a bullet to the head or poison them in some other way (fentanyl has been used in assassinations and is quite effective in small doses). Something seems fishy to me but I wont jump to conclusions until I've seen more evidence either way.
Yes! We need evidence and a thorough public investigation. Without harsh, thoughtless conclusions.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: MJK_Anfaenger on March 15, 2018, 09:31:18 PM
Yeah, I meant UK

Quote
Shaking off the shackles of the Keiser Reich will release the UK from the isolation of the EU

Snap, you got me there, one less country to serve our Kaiserreich. You're right tho, there's hundreds of countries who just can't wait to offer this little island super favorable trading conditions, now that it won't be part of the largest market in the world any more. There's a new golden age dawning my friend, what with the UK's unresolved border issues, its major companies preparing travel plans to the mainland and its political leaders running around like headless chickens and backstabbing each other, mark my words.



Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 15, 2018, 09:48:52 PM
England is the mainland - Ireland and the Isle of Wight are the surrounding islands.

The EU puts 80% of it's derivatives and other financial transactions through London, How are they going to replace that? - they don't even speak  English.

We import twice as much from the EU as we export to them, how are they going to cope with that?

And what about all the money that it sucks out of our economy. I suspect it will go bust without it.

But you are right about our politicians - they are Unicorns - The Unicorn was a man made creation to lead free spirited wild horses into capitivity, and that is wht they have been doing for years.

Oh Yes - the borders. That's something that needs to be sorted out by the Irish, and not the Deep State warmongers.

Is the ring fenced EU the largest market in the world? They aren't even talking to the Chinese about the Belt and Road initiative - the UK and America are. That's probably going to be the major trading initiative in the future.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Kleo-kripto on March 15, 2018, 10:38:56 PM
My heart is bursting with unjust attacks on Russia. These are all the political games that are conducted before the presidential elections to aggravate and so uneasy political situation.
I'm sorry for those people who learn the truth from the media in Britain and the US. They will never let you know the truth. Simple people will only know what the media will give them.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: MJK_Anfaenger on March 15, 2018, 10:58:45 PM
I meant 'mainland' as in 'the continent', sorry for the confusion.

To get to your points:

Quote
We import twice as much from the EU as we export to them, how are they going to cope with that?

So you're saying that the EU will be hurt, because the UK is heavily reliant on EU imports? I think you might have it backwards. While the UK is a very important trading partner, it's not the most important one. The EU on the other hand, is the UK's largest trading partner - the most important one. 43% of all UK exports go to the EU (http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851#fullreport).

Quote
And what about all the money that it sucks out of our economy. I suspect it will go bust without it.

According to a report by the Office for Budget Responsibility "The UK will save no money from leaving the European Union over the next five years and could be paying its Brexit divorce bill until at least 2064" (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/13/uk-save-money-brexit-obr-divorce-bill)

A leaked government report shows that any Brexit scenario will negatively impact the British economy. New trade deals will not even come close to replacing what is lost by leaving the EU (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/30/key-questions-latest-leaked-brexit-forecasts)

So no, no one seriously claims that the EU is "sucking out money" out of the UK's economy - not even May and her cabinet.

Quote
Oh Yes - the borders. That's something that needs to be sorted out by the Irish

Eh, I'm pretty sure that's very much in the UK's own interest, especially since they're the ones that started this whole Brexit circus. Having a land border with the EU would mean you'd have to put up border controls, basically dividing both countries. You'd have to put in some kind of police/military presence, too. Hmmm, I wonder if that could be a sensitive issue for anyone... nope, can't think of anyone...

I don't know enough about how Brexit might impact EU finances - but rest assured that most Europeans speak English to some extent, especially those working in finance. It's not difficult :D



Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 15, 2018, 11:11:16 PM
They will start another world war before they will allow Brexit to happen for real. Brexit is currently nothing but smoke and mirrors - designed to fool and cheat Brexit voters. Theresa May was never in favor of Brexit, yet was appointed to lead the charge. They are toying with Brexit voters like a cat is toying with a mouse. It is a complete disgrace.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 16, 2018, 11:01:42 AM
They will start another world war before they will allow Brexit to happen for real. Brexit is currently nothing but smoke and mirrors - designed to fool and cheat Brexit voters. Theresa May was never in favor of Brexit, yet was appointed to lead the charge. They are toying with Brexit voters like a cat is toying with a mouse. It is a complete disgrace.

Theresa May is a deep state Unicorn politician. Brexit will happen, or there will be a revolution.

Re: the Skripal poisoning.

It's looking more and more as if Russia was not involved. The poison was created in 1990 cold war period. Since then the Russia has agreed not to use chemical weapons, and their stockpile was destroyed, and this has been verified. The formula for the nerve agent is now in the public domain, so anyone could create it. I'm beginning to believe that the incident was ordered by the deep state, and is an attempt to get Russia removed from the United Nations security council.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: MJK_Anfaenger on March 16, 2018, 12:48:24 PM
They will start another world war before they will allow Brexit to happen for real. Brexit is currently nothing but smoke and mirrors - designed to fool and cheat Brexit voters. Theresa May was never in favor of Brexit, yet was appointed to lead the charge. They are toying with Brexit voters like a cat is toying with a mouse. It is a complete disgrace.

Theresa May is a deep state Unicorn politician. Brexit will happen, or there will be a revolution.

Re: the Skripal poisoning.

It's looking more and more as if Russia was not involved. The poison was created in 1990 cold war period. Since then the Russia has agreed not to use chemical weapons, and their stockpile was destroyed, and this has been verified. The formula for the nerve agent is now in the public domain, so anyone could create it. I'm beginning to believe that the incident was ordered by the deep state, and is an attempt to get Russia removed from the United Nations security council.

Would you be so kind as to provide a source for any of these claims? One that is not Breitbart or Russia Today? Because according to Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, former head of the Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiation and Nuclear Regiment, Novichock nerve agents were only ever made in central Russia (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43377698)

You seem to not trust the UK government very much - fair enough. However, you trust the Russian government that they didn't hide away some of their chemical weapons? Or that they didn't lie when they agreed to never use chemical weapons? Seems a bit paradoxical to me.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 16, 2018, 02:34:41 PM
I don't really trust any government.

A quote from the article in your link
Quote
Novichok's existence was revealed by chemist Dr Vil Mirzayanov in the 1990s, via Russian media. He later defected to the US, where he published the chemical formula in his book, State Secrets.

So as I stated, the formula is in the public domain, and it could be manufactured by anybody.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 16, 2018, 06:03:27 PM
I don't really trust any government.

A quote from the article in your link
Quote
Novichok's existence was revealed by chemist Dr Vil Mirzayanov in the 1990s, via Russian media. He later defected to the US, where he published the chemical formula in his book, State Secrets.

So as I stated, the formula is in the public domain, and it could be manufactured by anybody.

Correct. It is published in State Secrets: An Insider's Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program by Vil S Mirzayanov. I don't know for how long it will stay up, but it is currently available for purchase at Amazon.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: MJK_Anfaenger on March 16, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
Quote
the formula is in the public domain, and it could be manufactured by anybody

Yeah, alright, I agree with your first point, it's in the public domain. I don't know the first thing about chemical weapons, but claiming that "anyone" could manufacture them, seems to be a bit of a stretch to me, though. I can imagine that getting the chemicals, the facilities, personnel and equipment necessary to produce these nerve agents is a pretty challenging and possibly very dangerous task. Something that you'd have to spend serious money on. How would a democratic country like, say, UK, keep that a secret from budget oversight committees in parliament?


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 16, 2018, 06:17:17 PM
Quote
the formula is in the public domain, and it could be manufactured by anybody

Yeah, alright, I agree with your first point, it's in the public domain. I don't know the first thing about chemical weapons, but claiming that "anyone" could manufacture them, seems to be a bit of a stretch to me, though. I can imagine that getting the chemicals, the facilities, personnel and equipment necessary to produce these nerve agents is a pretty challenging and possibly very dangerous task. Something that you'd have to spend serious money on. How would a democratic country like, say, UK, keep that a secret from budget oversight committees in parliament?

Come on - the deep state owns the factories that produce the stuff. It's probably easier for them to get it than the US government.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 16, 2018, 06:25:36 PM
The British military base at Porton Down - deemed a "pioneer in chemicals research" - is more than capable of manufacturing it. Chances are that they manufactured it, but unfortunately a truly independent investigation will never be allowed to take place while the likes of Theresa May sits in government.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on March 16, 2018, 06:31:53 PM
The British military base at Porton Down - deemed a "pioneer in chemicals research" - is more than capable of manufacturing it. Chances are that they manufactured it, but unfortunately a truly independent investigation will never be allowed to take place while the likes of Theresa May sits in government.

How difficult would it be to sneak this stuff into the country as well? If you get caught with that at the border or having it shipped to you you'd be in serious trouble or your cover would be immediately blown. It would make it more likely that it was made in the UK, otherwise buying a gun or using some other sort of drug would be both far easier and safer to procure.

This also happened this week though isn't believed to be related:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/16/police-launch-inquiry-over-death-of-nikolai-glushkov

Quote
Police have launched a murder investigation into the death of the Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov after a pathologist concluded he died from compression to the neck, suggesting he may have been strangled by hand or ligature.

The Met police’s counter-terrorism command is retaining its lead role in the investigation “because of the associations Mr Glushkov is believed to have had” but has cautioned that there is no suggestion of a link with the attempted murders of the Russian former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, in Salisbury almost two weeks ago.

Now this would be more like how I would assume they'd get taken out, though I suppose this could be suicide given the trial (or that's what they wanted it to look like *puts on tinfoil hat*).


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 16, 2018, 06:43:12 PM
Well it seems that it was placed on the daughter's clothes before she came to England, and this is why so many people have come into contact with it.

It's looking more and more like a deep state operation. Russia has launched an enquiry, and Theresa May has refuse to provide them with a sample for analysis. This is in contravention of International law. It will also make it harder for Russia to track down the source of the toxin. Theresa May is a deep state Unicorn politician, and this action by her is predictable if she is trying to get Russia off the United Nations Security Council

Don't forget that a Unicorn is a rather nasty creature invented by man, and used to capture and enslave wild horses in the past.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: MJK_Anfaenger on March 16, 2018, 07:10:32 PM
Okay, I'm out. This deep state stuff to me is a symptom of people trying to make sense of the world around them and failing. To some people it's easier to imagine that there are puppet masters pulling the strings in the background, than accepting that the world is a chaotic place where nothing follows a plan. Nothing happens by accident, it's all just part of a grand conspiracy. But you, yes you, you figured it out. All the eggheads in their offices couldn't see through these evil machinations, but you realized what's going on after watching some Youtube videos. I guess you're just a little bit special.

I seriously hope that you can be given new faith in democracy. I wonder what has to be done. Does the political system have to become more accessible and transparent? Does the way of communicating issues have to change? Do you?

Sorry for the rant.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 16, 2018, 07:29:19 PM
Here is a quote from the Guardian

Quote
Mirzayanov worked inside the secret military installation where novichok was developed; his job was testing the surrounding air and soil for traces of novichok.

When he realized that Moscow’s military was lying about the possible applications of novichok and that the program risked undermining global chemical weapons bans, he said, he decided to expose it, publishing his first account in the Russian press in 1991.

He was arrested in 1994 and charged with divulging state secrets. Intervention by the US government, the Soros foundation and activists including his wife Gale, an American, secured his asylum in the United States.

What a surprise - Soros was involved in the protection of the scientist who worked on the chemical.

Soros is the guy who funded the Clintons and Obama, and is currently funding the anti-Brexit movement amongst others. The sums of money he throws around are enormous - hundreds of billions of dollars.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 16, 2018, 07:48:43 PM
Okay, I'm out. This deep state stuff to me is a symptom of people trying to make sense of the world around them and failing. To some people it's easier to imagine that there are puppet masters pulling the strings in the background, than accepting that the world is a chaotic place where nothing follows a plan. Nothing happens by accident, it's all just part of a grand conspiracy. But you, yes you, you figured it out. All the eggheads in their offices couldn't see through these evil machinations, but you realized what's going on after watching some Youtube videos. I guess you're just a little bit special.

I seriously hope that you can be given new faith in democracy. I wonder what has to be done. Does the political system have to become more accessible and transparent? Does the way of communicating issues have to change? Do you?

Sorry for the rant.

The truth hurts. It is better to respond with a rant based on half-assed assumptions and subjective BS than to face it full on.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 16, 2018, 07:55:50 PM
Here is a quote from the Guardian

Quote
Mirzayanov worked inside the secret military installation where novichok was developed; his job was testing the surrounding air and soil for traces of novichok.

When he realized that Moscow’s military was lying about the possible applications of novichok and that the program risked undermining global chemical weapons bans, he said, he decided to expose it, publishing his first account in the Russian press in 1991.

He was arrested in 1994 and charged with divulging state secrets. Intervention by the US government, the Soros foundation and activists including his wife Gale, an American, secured his asylum in the United States.

What a surprise - Soros was involved in the protection of the scientist who worked on the chemical.

Soros is the guy who funded the Clintons and Obama, and is currently funding the anti-Brexit movement amongst others. The sums of money he throws around are enormous - hundreds of billions of dollars.

And Soros is on record for having a strong disliking of President Putin.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 16, 2018, 08:12:12 PM
And another Russian has been murdered, and Putin has forced the English police to admit he was strangled, and they were reluctant to do this. This isn't the action of a guilty man.

Putin is blocking the invasion of Syria in order to remove their democratically elected leader - Assad. The game seems to be working towards removing Russia from the UN, so that they can invade Syria. They also need to create a war to cope with the collapsing dollar and the massive debt associated with it. They need control of the mineral wealth in North Korea as well, and that was what all the fuss and posturing was about. I bet they are p'd off now that Trump seems to be trying to find a peaceful result.

Russia is also working with China to replace the petro-dollar with the petro-yuan, or possibly the petro-ruble. That is going to have a big impact on the value of the dollar.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 16, 2018, 08:22:14 PM
And another Russian has been murdered, and Putin has forced the English police to admit he was strangled, and they were reluctant to do this. This isn't the action of a guilty man.

Putin is blocking the invasion of Syria in order to remove their democratically elected leader - Assad. The game seems to be working towards removing Russia from the UN, so that they can invade Syria. They also need to create a war to cope with the collapsing dollar and the massive debt associated with it. They need control of the mineral wealth in North Korea as well, and that was what all the fuss and posturing was about. I bet they are p'd off now that Trump seems to be trying to find a peaceful result.

Russia is also working with China to replace the petro-dollar with the petro-yuan, or possibly the petro-ruble. That is going to have a big impact on the value of the dollar.

And not even to speak of all the Russian ambassadors, scientists and other Russians that were murdered, including Putin's favorite driver.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 16, 2018, 08:39:37 PM
I'm a bit stressed about the whole thing. I want Brexit to happen tomorrow, and we can dump the EU, and just trade with the European countries that we want to. Don't forget that Russia ia a European country as well.

I think we should be looking at the Belt and Road Initiative coming out of Asia, and forget about the minor ring fenced organisation called the EU. The EU won't survive without our money and purchases from them anyway.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Rogerdale on March 17, 2018, 08:11:48 AM
Well it seems that it was placed on the daughter's clothes before she came to England, and this is why so many people have come into contact with it.

I wouldn't think it was clothes. Have you tried putting a French cheese in luggage? After the flight you would smell it even before opening a suitcase. ;D And remember, this was a nerve agent.

So if it came with the daughter, it must have been something properly sealed, a spray for example, or a bottle. It is simply not possible to poison clothes in a suitcase without poisoning Yulia, flight crew and passengers or everyone who touched this suitcase in the airport. And if it was a spray or a bottle, it's impossible to unseal it in the airport, put a poison inside and seal it back (maybe except "eau de parfum").

By the way, a new conspiracy theory, an interview with Victoria Skripal (a niece of Sergei Skripal): http://telegra.ph/Pochemu-vy-dumaete-chto-ubit-hoteli-imenno-ego-a-ne-doch-EHksklyuzivnoe-intervyu-s-semej-Sergeya-Skripalya-otravlennogo-yadom-No-03-14-2 She thinks that it was an attempt to kill Yulia by a mother of her fiance, who was strictly against their wedding (she insisted that her son should not merry "the daughter of a traitor"). Well, you know, it is quite common in Russia, when someone travels abroad to a immigrated relative, pass gifts from all the family. So when someone says "pass on this "eau de parfum" to your lovely father as my personal gift" - you just wouldn't suspect anything at all.

But in fact, it is better if it was a secret service. Otherwise I would be scary that it is so easy to get a nerve agent in Russia. :o But Russia will never start any investigation on its territory even if there is 100% evidence that the poison came from Russia, they will never acknowledge that fact, it's too sensitive. We will never find out the truth.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 17, 2018, 05:41:28 PM
I understand it was in powder form.

Handling itis quite a risky and specialist task, as is the manufacture. It is unlikely to be planted or obtained by someone without a goodlevel of specialist knowledge. That knowledge is more likely to be in the deep state as a result of their actions to try to lay a false blame on Assad. I think the association with Soros is a significant factor as well. That lies more with the need to spread alarm in the UK. The Unicorn deep state agent Theresa May rushed straight in to blame Russia, and this was without any investigation. That smacks of orders from above.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: veleten on March 18, 2018, 02:01:58 PM
such an obvious false flag set up that I don't think it is even worth discussing
1.no evidence that Russia as a state is connected to the "murder" in any way,other than statements that the gas was of Soviet origin
according to Brits,no other country had the formula
(I put murder in quotes,since they are both alive and there is no information about their current condition)
accidentally,there was a ... facility nearby that quickly determined the unknown formula and injected antidote
same as with the US presidential involvement-we have all the evidence "winking",but it is too secret to show you

2.the timing
do you think that russians had no other timeframe to do this but right before the presidential elections?
you can call them anything,but they are not stupid
3.the reason
why? why on earth try to kill a spy that has been exchanged years ago
what danger could he pose to anyone other than serve as a sacrificial lamb
4.qui bono
who is to gain? doesn't it look to be just one of the steps in trying to discredit Russia and demonize it,think about it
and you will see that there was 0 profit for the russians from this death
5.the method
seriously...chemical weapon,they should have eliminated him with a dirty bomb instead with "made in russia" written on it /sarcasm

there are more incosistencies like the picture of the scene,where two people in full cycle biochemical protection suits,two people in
protective gear and masks... and three brave firemen two metres away,squarejawing into cameras
oh and have you seen the "Strike back" series,the funny thing is that one of the villains tried to poison the good guys with the gas called "Novichek"
don't believe me-go watch it yourselves
this was timed with a Syrian setup,where Asad was going to be accused of a chemical weapon attack on civilians,of course,Russia was to blame again

this can only work on total russofobic audience and people with no critical thinking and logics
what is disturbing,the war is coming,see false flags like Lousitania or Pearl Harbor-prepare for war


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 18, 2018, 02:59:28 PM
For those in the West who fail to grasp the seriousness of the situation, based on reality and not pie in the sky (or BBC propaganda), be sure to listen to what Russian presidential candidate, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, had to say about the issue: https://youtu.be/_aip_AtDxns

P.S. Yes, Zhirinovsky is hot-headed, but speaks the truth.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 18, 2018, 06:22:32 PM
Here are some things to think about.

- The only country that has chemical weapons at the moment is the US, and the developer of the toxin was given sanctuary in the US. So was it the US, some of the evidence points to them. Steps back - what would the US have gain, probably nothing, so it is unlikely to be them.

- The UK military lab is at Porton Down, and that is only a few miles away from Salisbury. They identified the poison fairly quickly, and in order to do this, they would need to have a sample for comparison. So was it the UK, some of the evidence points to them. Steps back - what would the UK have to gain, probably nothing, so it unlikely to be them.

- The poison was developed in Russia, and the guy was a Russian defector who had been pardoned by the current government, some of the evidence points to Russia. Steps back again, what would Russia have to gain, probably nothing, and a great deal to lose, so they are probably the least likely culprits.

- The only gainers from this botched attempt to kill Skripal is the Deep State, and they badly need an event to try to save their failing influence, and totry to depose Assad. What is the evidence, well there isn't any of course, so we have to consider probabilities and coincidences. Soros was instrumental in the rerptrition of the developer of the toxin. Theresa May is a Deep State Unicorn, and she has villified Russia without evidence, and hs refused to cooperate with them in the investigation. This is the action of someone attempting to conceal the facts.

Lets hope that the evidence does surface before the Deep State manages to get Russia removed from the United Nations security council, this seems to be the object of the excercise.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: veleten on March 19, 2018, 07:09:27 AM
Here are some things to think about.

- The only country that has chemical weapons at the moment is the US, and the developer of the toxin was given sanctuary in the US. So was it the US, some of the evidence points to them. Steps back - what would the US have gain, probably nothing, so it is unlikely to be them.

- The UK military lab is at Porton Down, and that is only a few miles away from Salisbury. They identified the poison fairly quickly, and in order to do this, they would need to have a sample for comparison. So was it the UK, some of the evidence points to them. Steps back - what would the UK have to gain, probably nothing, so it unlikely to be them.

- The poison was developed in Russia, and the guy was a Russian defector who had been pardoned by the current government, some of the evidence points to Russia. Steps back again, what would Russia have to gain, probably nothing, and a great deal to lose, so they are probably the least likely culprits.

- The only gainers from this botched attempt to kill Skripal is the Deep State, and they badly need an event to try to save their failing influence, and totry to depose Assad. What is the evidence, well there isn't any of course, so we have to consider probabilities and coincidences. Soros was instrumental in the rerptrition of the developer of the toxin. Theresa May is a Deep State Unicorn, and she has villified Russia without evidence, and hs refused to cooperate with them in the investigation. This is the action of someone attempting to conceal the facts.

Lets hope that the evidence does surface before the Deep State manages to get Russia removed from the United Nations security council, this seems to be the object of the excercise.

I would agree with it,only it is not the Deep State which is the culprit,IMHO (or you can call it Global Goverment,Cabal or any other name there is)
they are not interested in demonizing Russia at the moment,the all out war is not their goal right now-the shift of power is and establishing several new centres of power:China,mostly and Russia and Iran,potentially
just look at them handling the N.Korea crisis,it is obvious that the US losing their authority everywhere,they are forced out of Africa by China,losing to China in Asia and to Russia and Iran in the Middle East
as for this incident,I think it is one of the countrie's elites and the special services connected to them,most likely British, in conjunction with americans
but the way it was done,disgrace,no finesse,an obvious set up


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 19, 2018, 09:41:48 AM

I would agree with it,only it is not the Deep State which is the culprit,IMHO (or you can call it Global Goverment,Cabal or any other name there is)
they are not interested in demonizing Russia at the moment,the all out war is not their goal right now

I agree with most of your points, but I can't agree with that one. Russia has broken free from the Rothschilds banking control, and that is a major threat to the globalists' power. They also need to get Russia out of the UN to create a new war over Syria.

I would have disagreed with your comment about Britain being involved. However, The Globalist Unicorn Theresa May would seem to be doing everything she can to hamper the investigtion, and this tends to give credibility to the idea.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 19, 2018, 12:41:06 PM
This starts toget even more interesting. Here is a video about the way Novichok works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caYCPMuOwRQ

It is not a single toxin, but a family of toxins, and analysis of the substance used could give a clue to its source. I suspect this is why the UK government is refusing to release a sample for analysis. Speculation seems to be increasing that the product was manufactured in Porton Down, and released to a private hit squad. There is so much variety in the conjecture surrounding this attempted assasination, that without the release of some hard facts, we may never know the true story. The possibility that it was ordered by Putin seems to be diminishing though.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: veleten on March 19, 2018, 04:51:41 PM
This starts toget even more interesting. Here is a video about the way Novichok works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caYCPMuOwRQ

It is not a single toxin, but a family of toxins, and analysis of the substance used could give a clue to its source. I suspect this is why the UK government is refusing to release a sample for analysis. Speculation seems to be increasing that the product was manufactured in Porton Down, and released to a private hit squad. There is so much variety in the conjecture surrounding this attempted assasination, that without the release of some hard facts, we may never know the true story. The possibility that it was ordered by Putin seems to be diminishing though.

of course,the chemical agent in question is deadly once it is mixed,the whole area and everyone and everything who was in contact with it
would have been poisoned and died horribly,the thing is that the whole scenario with his daughter "bringing it from Russia in her suitcase where it had been planted by the russians"
has no sense,the substance was mixed there in the UK,the goverment refuses to both grant access to the spy's daughter (who is a russian citizen)
and to give a sample for analysis,which is in a direct contradiction with the convention on chemical weapons


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: ArsenyP on March 20, 2018, 04:58:55 AM
Guys, you do not understand how Russia works. I live here. Trust me, it was most probably russians because of the style. EVERYTHING in Russia is affected by the corruption. And here we see a messy and unsuccessful attempt to kill someone with a wrong mean at the wrong time.
No need to look for deep state. The order of murder was given a long time ago. All the financing was stolen the job was not done. The same cycle was repeated a couple times with heavy stealing all the while. Finally from all the millions issued on the murder a couple thousand bucks fell in the hands of the actual hitman. Unprofessional unprepared with insufficient information he tried to get his hands on weapon of any kind. It is hard to get a gun and transfer it abroad. But it is possible to find a can of some deadly substance on the black market which was stolen from some secret vault by some military officer who is also stealing on a daily basis.
This is normal here. Everything that is done poorly is most probably done by the government.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 20, 2018, 08:14:20 AM
Guys, you do not understand how Russia works. I live here. Trust me, it was most probably russians because of the style. EVERYTHING in Russia is affected by the corruption. And here we see a messy and unsuccessful attempt to kill someone with a wrong mean at the wrong time.
No need to look for deep state. The order of murder was given a long time ago. All the financing was stolen the job was not done. The same cycle was repeated a couple times with heavy stealing all the while. Finally from all the millions issued on the murder a couple thousand bucks fell in the hands of the actual hitman. Unprofessional unprepared with insufficient information he tried to get his hands on weapon of any kind. It is hard to get a gun and transfer it abroad. But it is possible to find a can of some deadly substance on the black market which was stolen from some secret vault by some military officer who is also stealing on a daily basis.
This is normal here. Everything that is done poorly is most probably done by the government.

There is corruption everywhere in the world, but there is no proof that either the Russian government or Russians attempted to poison turncoat low life, Sergei Skripal. You living in Russia - true or untrue - doesn't diminish the call for a proper and independent investigation. You living in Russia also don't remove the possibility that you're a turncoat yourself. It is after all no secret that there are scumbag Russians that are more than willing to work against Mother Russia for crumbs from the table of Western intelligence services. In addition, it is very easy to use a VPN service to register at forums and pretend to live there. I will pass the details onto the SVR and FSB for verification. 


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 20, 2018, 09:48:27 AM
I can understand the comment by ArsenyP, but it doesn't fit the circumstances of this case.

It isn't easy to purchase that toxin, it is extremely dangerous, and needs special care when handling and transporting it, and it needs training to be able to use it.

You comment doesn't explain why Theresa May rushed to blame Putin before she was able to publish the evidence of his association. She made it appear as if the evidence proved that there wasn't a Russian involvement, and she needed to build public opinion against Russia early in the investigation. The link to Soros would also appear to give rise to the belief that it was a Deep State "event".


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: ArsenyP on March 20, 2018, 10:12:24 AM
True, there is no evidence of russians being involved. But common sence suggests that such a messy job could not be done in accordance with some mad masterminds plan. Could you imagine the paperwork behind such a decision? No one issues orders to kill civilians unless 100% necessary, because everyone is afraid to lose his job. Most definitely this mission went wrong. The question is who failed? I think it was someone from russian government just because they tend to fail a lot. But I am not saying that someone did not help them fail. One can bribe a president in Russia. Why not bribe a GRU-hitman? Or fool him?
Just speculating here.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 20, 2018, 11:12:33 AM
True, there is no evidence of russians being involved. But common sence suggests that such a messy job could not be done in accordance with some mad masterminds plan. Could you imagine the paperwork behind such a decision? No one issues orders to kill civilians unless 100% necessary, because everyone is afraid to lose his job. Most definitely this mission went wrong. The question is who failed? I think it was someone from russian government just because they tend to fail a lot. But I am not saying that someone did not help them fail. One can bribe a president in Russia. Why not bribe a GRU-hitman? Or fool him?
Just speculating here.

If the Russian government wanted that scumbag dead, he would have been dead a long time ago.

A "messy job" forms part of what you call "some mad masterminds plan," because the intention was not to kill the scumbag and his daughter, but to portray it as a failed attempt by the enemy to assassinate them. To create the idea that the enemy's actions are unprofessional, irresponsible and outright dangerous, not only to the alleged targets, but also to the public at large.

In addition, even if proof existed that show that it was an attempt by the Russian authorities to take out the scumbag, it would not take away from the fact that Skripal is a scumbag who deserves death.

Furthermore, Western intelligence services have never poisoned or attempted to assassinate anyone on Russian soil. ::)

The UK government's reaction is of a government that is pushing for war at any cost. If the public don't wake up fast and remove the warmongers from power, they will be destroyed along with the scumbag traitors. The Russian government has restrained itself for most part, but I am sure their patience are starting to run out. It will only take a couple of missiles to level the whole nine yards.



Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 20, 2018, 02:00:18 PM
I'm finding it difficult to obtain any further factual information about the event. THey are loads of discussions about what should be done because of this alleged attck by Putin, but there isn't even a basic report about the essentils, and there is a lot of contradictions as well. For example, why can't we be told where the policeman was when he became infected?

Governments eem to do this all the time, and Brexit is another exmple. It is quite cleaar that the EU should refund some of our payments when we leave the EU, and they should purchase our shareholdings in EU assets. The EU is bankrupt, and can't afford this, so all the rhetoric is about the "UK Brexit bill", and this is done so that whatever they decide to steal from the country is seen to be a bargain, and a great feat of negotiation.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Lionfortis178 on March 20, 2018, 03:10:23 PM
I think we'll probably never really know what happened.. I find it weird that Russia would kill in such dramatic fashion, why not fake a suicide or just stab or shoot him somewhere. Using the gas really made them look suspicious no?


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on March 20, 2018, 06:06:50 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/18/ex-russian-spy-may-have-been-poisoned-by-cars-ventilation-says-us-media

That seems more plausible than putting it in his daughter's suitcase which doesn't even seem logical unless she was in on it.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 20, 2018, 06:23:02 PM
if it was put in her suitcase, then it could have been done before they entered the country. I think they have changed the story to try to say that Putin ordered the attack in England. I thought that the policeman became infected in the daughters flat, but that contradicts the car theory. So where was the policeman exposed to the toxin?


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: morningtime on March 21, 2018, 01:42:03 PM
No.

Perhaps the attacked was staged by the British, or the British poisoned him.

This is just another Reichstag fire to coax Europeans & American to go to war with Russia.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on March 21, 2018, 03:22:47 PM
This is just another Reichstag fire to coax Europeans & American to go to war with Russia.

I wouldn't go that far. At the most they'll probably impose some sanctions on them but I very much doubt they intend to start World War 3 over this. There would have to be some much bigger incident for that to happen but not sure why they'd want to start a war with them (and likely a nuclear one at that).


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 21, 2018, 04:05:49 PM
I don't think they want to start a war with Russia. I think they want to see Russia removed from the UN SC, so that they can invade Syria, and kill Assad.

The deep state needs an event fairly soon, as the rug is being pulled out from under them.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: paulmaritz on March 21, 2018, 08:37:17 PM
"By hurling accusations at Russia May imagined she would deliver the "Global Britain" of her promises. It didn't go according to plan": https://russia-insider.com/en/four-days-declare-cold-war/ri22854?


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 24, 2018, 12:22:32 PM
Some more food for thought -

It seems that the reason that the two Russians and the policeman didn't die is because they were given an antidote fairly quickly. If they were given an antidote so quickly, then the authorities must have had previous knowledge about the poison administered..


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on March 24, 2018, 12:33:08 PM
Some more food for thought -

It seems that the reason that the two Russians and the policeman didn't die is because they were given an antidote fairly quickly. If they were given an antidote so quickly, then the authorities must have had previous knowledge about the poison administered..

They probably didn't die because they likely only came into contact with trace amounts of it as they were obviously not the intended victims. I mentioned fentanyl being used in assassinations previously and there's cases of drug addicts who have overdosed on fentanyl that even the paramedics or doctors that attended to them had to be treated for overdoses because it's that powerful - especially if you have no tolerance to it.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article183986786.html

Quote
He didn’t even realize he’d been exposed — and then the paramedic started to overdose, authorities say.

Responding to an emergency call in Fairborn, Ohio on Thursday night around 7 p.m., a handful of paramedics treated a 49-year-old woman for a suspected opioid overdose, WKEF reports. Police and paramedics administered life support, City Manager Rob Anderson told the Dayton Daily News, and then rushed the woman to the hospital for further care.

But on the way to Soin Medical Center, the paramedic driving the vehicle started to feel funny.

“He was not feeling right. He was having issues seeing the speedometer controls,” David Reichert, division chief for the Fairborn fire department, told the newspaper. The medic in the back was able to stop the vehicle.

There have been numerous cases like this and I imagine it's a similar story for dangerous pathogens.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Lauda on March 24, 2018, 12:34:24 PM
Why would you believe someone, who refuses to provide proof to third parties for verification, i.e. the very same someone who is willing to kill their own people to pass some "anti terrorism" laws and whatnot? Absolutely not. Classic government orchestrated attack.

I don't think they want to start a war with Russia. I think they want to see Russia removed from the UN SC, so that they can invade Syria, and kill Assad.
Sounds likely. At least the relationship between China and Russia is gaining strength due to these obvious attacks.

Pro tip: You don't want to go to the US/UK nor live there.

I think Skripal's and Glushkov's deaths were Russian hit jobs. The used nerve gas, according to the newspapers I read, is of soviet origin. So either they used it themselves, which is bad, or they let it get taken from them, which is worse in a way. In any case, I don't think Russia has much to lose.
Wrong. Several other countries had access to the nerve agent.

https://i.imgur.com/JQRhb6j.png


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 24, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
In a public statement, Boris Johnson stated that Porton Down has a stock of the family of toxins, and these were used for comparison purposes.

It would appear that the original developers of the toxin were the British.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: veleten on March 24, 2018, 03:32:50 PM
In a public statement, Boris Johnson stated that Porton Down has a stock of the family of toxins, and these were used for comparison purposes.

It would appear that the original developers of the toxin were the British.

was pretty obvious from the beginning
I have no doubt the attack is staged,just not sure who ordered it exactly
this toxin formula has been known to the US special serviced since they participated in the demolition of the Uzbekistan laboratory
that held all the samples,blaming russians for the attack is akin to blaming brits if there was a car accident in Moscow and some dude was hit to death by an Aston Martin

http://www.oilempire.us/oil-jpg/powell-anthrax-vial.jpg

oh and a totally "coincidental" onomatopoeia,if you haven't noticed
Novichok,which is russian for "newcomer,newbie" sounds like "Now We Choke" in english
so that the general populace gets scared on a subconcious level as well


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: DigitalFox on March 24, 2018, 07:10:36 PM
In a public statement, Boris Johnson stated that Porton Down has a stock of the family of toxins, and these were used for comparison purposes.

It would appear that the original developers of the toxin were the British.

was pretty obvious from the beginning
I have no doubt the attack is staged,just not sure who ordered it exactly
this toxin formula has been known to the US special serviced since they participated in the demolition of the Uzbekistan laboratory
that held all the samples,blaming russians for the attack is akin to blaming brits if there was a car accident in Moscow and some dude was hit to death by an Aston Martin

http://www.oilempire.us/oil-jpg/powell-anthrax-vial.jpg

oh and a totally "coincidental" onomatopoeia,if you haven't noticed
Novichok,which is russian for "newcomer,newbie" sounds like "Now We Choke" in english
so that the general populace gets scared on a subconcious level as well

LOL mate, that old photo really made me laugh again. All of these seem to be part of one game, same scenarios are popping everywhere if one is curious enough to look for them.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 27, 2018, 04:50:33 PM
The real irony is that I believe the agent was first discovered by the British.

The whole incident has escalated way out of proportion, especially as there still seems to be a paucity of physical evidence. I shudder to think what the reaction will be if it turns out that it is a Soros created event, and that May is just the puppet Unicorn.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: veleten on March 27, 2018, 05:10:00 PM
The real irony is that I believe the agent was first discovered by the British.

The whole incident has escalated way out of proportion, especially as there still seems to be a paucity of physical evidence. I shudder to think what the reaction will be if it turns out that it is a Soros created event, and that May is just the puppet Unicorn.

there will be no reaction whatsoever
those few who undertsand the real state of things are in the minority
and all of the media is controlled by several families,no truth will ever surface there
now,without any evidence,discarding the presumption of innocence principle the "democratic" powers are so proud of
Russia is accused of the thing they,most likely,didn't do
all I want to know is how far the things are going to be escalated by the warmongers
because expelling diplomats,if you read any history book, is done right before a full out agression
mind you after the protectionists measures by Trump,there is also a trade war going on as we speak- the US vs China
China already stated that those who are trying to cut a piece of our flesh will find themselves without their front teeth,lets see
it could lead to drastic changes,markets are going to be volatile as hell as the currencies will be devalued to protect the home markets etc. etc.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 27, 2018, 07:21:02 PM
I think it will be interesting to see how Trump spends the massive amount of money he's just been given. I'm sure most of the stuff in that great tome that is supposed to be the target will be ignored.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: DigitalFox on March 27, 2018, 08:50:28 PM

The whole incident has escalated way out of proportion, especially as there still seems to be a paucity of physical evidence.

Who needs evidence nowadays. Just accuse anyone you want, then few days later insist that accusations are now facts and must be acted upon. Same scenario one time after another...


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: veleten on March 27, 2018, 09:36:03 PM
In case you guys wondered,here is the overwhelming,undeniable evidence presented by the UK
during the meeting in the UK embassy,totally secret and all
https://www.kommersant.ru/docs/2018/UK_Briefing.pdf

feel free to try and find a single,I repeat a single piece of evidence pointing to Russia
oh except for  the:

We are without doubt that Russia is responsible. No country bar Russia has combined capability, intent and motive.
There is no plausible alternative explanation


As of Sunday 18 March, we count over thirty parallel lines of Russian disinformation


seriously,you got to be missing half a brain to believe in this (or be Theresa May,but I highly doubt she believes in this either and is not mutually exclusive,by the way)


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: funsponge on March 27, 2018, 10:16:03 PM
In case you guys wondered,here is the overwhelming,undeniable evidence presented by the UK
during the meeting in the UK embassy,totally secret and all
https://www.kommersant.ru/docs/2018/UK_Briefing.pdf

feel free to try and find a single,I repeat a single piece of evidence pointing to Russia
oh except for  the:

We are without doubt that Russia is responsible. No country bar Russia has combined capability, intent and motive.
There is no plausible alternative explanation


As of Sunday 18 March, we count over thirty parallel lines of Russian disinformation


seriously,you got to be missing half a brain to believe in this (or be Theresa May,but I highly doubt she believes in this either and is not mutually exclusive,by the way)

They are using the awful reputation that Russia has been given over the years to make claims without backing them up. Let's just have a look at their bullet points and try and answer them without being too bias here.

Quote
Novichok is a group of agents developed only by Russia and not declared under the CWC
This at face value looks pretty bad on the Russian behalf. However I think we are forgetting that no one was caught in the act of this and this may have been obtained another way. Just because a nerve agent is only developed in one country doesn't mean that the formula isn't known by anyone else. Okay so maybe they've traced it back to Russia via other means and have evidence that they aren't providing that it came from Russia. But they haven't presented that so all we know is that Russia is the only known location that this is developed and it's likely that's where it came from. This doesn't prove that Russia used it.

Quote
We are without doubt that Russia is responsible. No country bar Russia has combined
capability, intent and motive.There is no plausible alternative
explanation

This is bullshit. I'm not sure what they are talking about the capability to pull something like this off but it seems pretty amatuerish to me. Someone has poisoned a family with something which is traceable rather than dealing with it through other means which wouldn't be so easily traceable. Why would Russia use something which is developed only in their country.

Motive? There doesn't need to be a obvious motive or even a motive at all. People murder each other every day and it only takes someone within Russia to not take a liking to the victims to try something out. This doesn't mean it was sanctioned by Russia.  

Then they bring up past "malign activity" that Russia has done/been apart of and try to suggest that there is a pattern. No there is no pattern in that whatsoever. I'm not going to defend Russia in any of these because let's be honest a lot of them were incredibly awful. But has anyone noticed that they've included the poisoning of sergei and his daughter in this little image? Yet I don't see 100% proof here and more speculation because of the origin of where the nerve agent comes from.

I'm sorry but we as the public should not accept assumption and should demand that a proper investigation is taken out and that EVIDENCE be provided instead of being spoon fed what they think happened and what is plausible. They haven't provided any evidence and are using the public perception of Russia to paint a picture and get the public to dislike them further. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas why evidence hasn't been given and we've been given this very brief (in terms of context) briefing.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: DigitalFox on March 28, 2018, 03:36:40 PM
They are using the awful reputation that Russia has been given over the years to make claims without backing them up. Let's just have a look at their bullet points and try and answer them without being too bias here.

Just to add that most of this awful reputation was given on very similar occasions - based on tons of BS and proofless accusations. The demonisation process is in full swing, does Russia give a damn about it? I don't think so, they just mind their own business always stating they are open for a dialog, as long as it's constructive.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on March 28, 2018, 05:59:43 PM
>..<

Russia is not the only country that has developed it. Boris Johnson has confirmed that Britain has an active development plan, and expanded Porton Down just before the attack.

Russia has no motive, but the UN does. The recent statement by the US about the way that Russia is supporting Assad - the democratically elected leader of Syria, confirms that the US is on a campaign to create an event to start conflict with Russia, It is to Russia's credit that they are not rising to the bait - yet.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on March 28, 2018, 06:54:39 PM
In case you guys wondered,here is the overwhelming,undeniable evidence presented by the UK
during the meeting in the UK embassy,totally secret and all


As of Sunday 18 March, we count over thirty parallel lines of Russian disinformation


seriously,you got to be missing half a brain to believe in this (or be Theresa May,but I highly doubt she believes in this either and is not mutually exclusive,by the way)

Who needs proof when the media will spread what message you want out there for you. It's the same thing with the suspecting Iraq of having Nuclear weapons and Afghanistan harbouring Bin Laden which was used to justify the entire invasions:

Quote
Following the September 11 attacks in 2001 on the U.S., which President George W. Bush blamed on Osama bin Laden who was living or hiding in Afghanistan, President Bush demanded that the Taliban hand over Osama bin Laden and expel al-Qaeda; bin Laden had already been wanted by the U.S. since 1998.[60] The Taliban declined to extradite him unless they were provided evidence of his involvement in the September 11 attacks and also declined demands to extradite others on the same grounds. The U.S. dismissed the request for evidence as a delaying tactic,[61] and on October 7, 2001 launched Operation Enduring Freedom with the United Kingdom

Apparently requesting proof of any evidence is just a delaying tactic these days. Now we've just got to wait and see what sanctions or repercussions they try to put on Russia.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: DigitalFox on March 29, 2018, 07:00:49 AM
Russia has no motive, but the UN does. The recent statement by the US about the way that Russia is supporting Assad - the democratically elected leader of Syria, confirms that the US is on a campaign to create an event to start conflict with Russia, It is to Russia's credit that they are not rising to the bait - yet.

Ah well... Every century for the last ~500 years someone thinks he's smart enough to win and sends his army to Russia. History shows they never return home, or return with Russian troops chasing them.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: AverageGlabella on April 02, 2018, 09:14:40 PM
What many people might not know is that Sergei Skripal was previously imprisoned in a Russia prison in 2006 for high treason. In the summer of 2010 he was released along with 3 other spies as part of a spy swap. This involved 10 Russian agents that were arrested in the United States. The UK insisted to the USA that Sergei Skripal were to be included in the swap.

Now it's been reported that he carried on reporting to the United Kingdom for a few years after he was released. What's concerning is that his relatively young family has been died before the incident happened this year.His wife died in 2012 of cancer, his son who was only 43 died in 2017 of unknown circumstances and I believe were deemed not suspicious. Sergei's older brother also died some what recently however I can't recall of what he died of.


His daughter however did live and work in Russia after his time of release and it's already been reported that he continued to supply information to the United Kingdom. Therefore it's not entirely implausible he was getting his information from his daughter. Although I do doubt that this was the case. So my question in all of this is why would Russia let him go rather than just killing him right there. Sergei settled down in the United Kingdom and didn't look like he was concerned about his well being. Yes his release was for several other spies and you might argue that the Russian government allowed him to escape temporarily to get the spies they wanted and then planned on killing him at a later date. But this would of been a big risk for Russia as a spy would normally know how to disappear if he thought his well being was at risk.

Unless in 8 years he gathered new information on Russia I don't think they would of purposely went out of their way to risk both murdering a man and also undermining the authority of both the United Kingdom and the USA. It just simply isn't worth the risk for one man that they deemed to be free by releasing him in the spy trade. For example in the 8 years that he had between his release and the poisoning any information that he did have on Russia would of likely passed hands to the authorities of the United Kingdom.

There's a few news reports going around right now about the UK government believes that it wasn't some rogue group that just got a hold of the nerve agent because of how sophisticated approach of applying it to his front door and wherever else. I think it's fair to say the UK have not got much evidence here and their accusations are based on assumption. I would like to think that if a rogue group as they refer to them got their hands on the nerve agent in the first place they would be more than capable of performing a sophisticated attack with it.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: TECSHARE on April 03, 2018, 05:02:27 AM
Sergei Skripal has direct connections to people involved in creating the so called "Steele dossier". This attack is designed to tie up loose ends for US/UK intelligence agencies while also directing public blow back towards Russia to further escalate tensions dividing it from Europe and pushing for war.

Side note, intelligence agencies don't hand over spies with information worth killing them over. Releasing him then assassinating him later, on UK soil no less makes zero sense. The scenario I previously mentioned however makes lots of sense given the circumstances.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: ToyMonster on April 05, 2018, 02:01:22 AM
Nope. No one poisoned him as that is not what was the case.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: TECSHARE on April 06, 2018, 11:08:21 AM
The source of course is suspect as having state ties with Russia, but the explanation makes a lot of sense. The toxins in the Fugu fish are tetrodotoxins which would likely have some of the same symptoms as chemical bioweapons. Yet again, the restaurant they were last in was Italian... not Japanese.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201804051063227285-skripal-niece-interview-salisbury-incident/

This could have been a simple mistake leveraged and manipulated to serve geopolitical goals.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: jumbo on April 06, 2018, 06:01:01 PM
It looks like that government official in both Uk and Russia want to make it look like Skripal was poisoned by Putin's assassins (who are likely not Russian at all, both by residency and by nationality).

It just serves great as a part of possible right wing political plan (conspiracy theory, yeah) to divide the world and manipulate societies into serving them thru fear.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on April 07, 2018, 11:22:18 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43671958

Russian spy poisoning: Sergei Skripal 'improving rapidly'

They're both 'improving rapidly' apparently. It will be interesting to see what they will have to say and if they can shed any light on the culprits. Does anyone know if they've already spoken about what happened?


==========

https://images.vexels.com/media/users/3/75372/preview2/2676995d5b2e35357d849b330a645969-russia-2018-logo.jpg

The soccer World Cup in the summer is being held in Russia. I wonder if there will be any retaliation there. There is almost certainly gong to be trouble between football fans and Russian Hooligans are notoriously violent and will be looking for trouble. If any of them die -- which I wouldn't be surprised if they did -- this could further escalate tensions.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: secondhandlark5 on April 08, 2018, 10:26:10 PM
Yes, I have full trust in that but I don’t know what they gained.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: AverageGlabella on April 09, 2018, 09:44:45 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43671958

Russian spy poisoning: Sergei Skripal 'improving rapidly'

They're both 'improving rapidly' apparently. It will be interesting to see what they will have to say and if they can shed any light on the culprits. Does anyone know if they've already spoken about what happened?


==========

https://images.vexels.com/media/users/3/75372/preview2/2676995d5b2e35357d849b330a645969-russia-2018-logo.jpg

The soccer World Cup in the summer is being held in Russia. I wonder if there will be any retaliation there. There is almost certainly gong to be trouble between football fans and Russian Hooligans are notoriously violent and will be looking for trouble. If any of them die -- which I wouldn't be surprised if they did -- this could further escalate tensions.

They could. But if this was carried out as sophisticated as the media and government is proclaiming then they'll likely be as clueless as us or making assumptions based on the information know. The thing is this family was well known from multiple governments and as we've seen in other leaks there's multiple entities which get exposed. Look at Snowden for an example. He pissed off a lot of people not just the USA authorities.

You are also assuming we get to know the truth and what the Skripal's actually want to say.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: RooKIED on April 11, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
actually this is possible in both variants. Russians are quite a firm nation and our leader is a firm man too, so I would not be surprised if it is a work of FSB, but it can also be a provocation to destabilize Russian position in the world and so the relationships between countries get worse. So, who knows...


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on April 11, 2018, 06:57:30 PM
Sorry I've been out of this thread for a while.

The latest info seems to point to the fact that the culprit was an asset run by the European Union who was working in Porton Down. It seems that he was inexperienced, and that is why the attempt failed. The deep state needs an event to distract interest from the treasonous actions of the Unicorn prime minister Theresa May.

In view of the Skripal murder attempt becoming unravelled, they seem to have started another false action - the gas attack by Assad. No intelligent person would ever believe that he would do this, especially as he seems to be winning back his country.

Lets hope that the evidence will further discredit the Clintons, Obama, Richard Branson, Tony Blair, Soros, Bill Gates and all the others who want a global war as part of their eugenics project.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Simplyield on April 12, 2018, 11:58:59 AM
I believe this is the perfect time as there is nothing to loose.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on April 12, 2018, 12:06:07 PM
The latest info seems to point to the fact that the culprit was an asset run by the European Union who was working in Porton Down. It seems that he was inexperienced, and that is why the attempt failed. The deep state needs an event to distract interest from the treasonous actions of the Unicorn prime minister Theresa May.

Source?

Lets hope that the evidence will further discredit the Clintons, Obama, Richard Branson, Tony Blair, Soros, Bill Gates and all the others who want a global war as part of their eugenics project.

Lol.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on May 18, 2018, 03:28:30 PM
Sergei was released from hospital: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/18/sergei-skripal-discharged-from-salisbury-hospital

Quote
Russia demands access to poisoned former spy and daughter to ensure they do not want help

Lol. Would be funny if they take him out proper this time (or the UK does). I'm still interested to here what he has to say on the matter. Surely he is the best person to clarify what the frick actually happened... though maybe he is also none the wiser.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on May 18, 2018, 08:14:45 PM
The evidence doesn't support the fact that Novichok was used.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Rogerdale on July 06, 2018, 11:07:50 AM
Interesting survey at Porton Down laboratory:

Quote
Staff at secretive defence centre Porton Down suffer low morale and lack confidence in leadership, survey reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/porton-down-chemical-weapons-employees-staff-morale-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-russia-a8293486.html

What if an employee from Porton Down wanted to play a hero to show the importance of the laboratory and even get a promotion? And then deliberately poisoned Skripals and issued false claims that it was Novichek from Russia (although if it was real Novichek, the victims would be already dead, or in any case not fully recovered). It was quite suspicious that antidote for Skripals came from Porton Down very quickly and was quite effective, it looks like they already knew what kind of poison was used (if it was a secret Russian poison, they would need to conduct a research first to find the proper antidote).


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on July 06, 2018, 03:58:33 PM
There was another incident recently in the UK with Novichok. Looks like they might have come into contact with a contaminated item or so it has been alleged: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44733873

Quote
Police in hazmat suits have entered a hostel in Salisbury as they search for the item contaminated with the nerve agent that poisoned a couple.

Investigators in protective clothing began searching John Baker House, where one of the victims, Dawn Sturgess, 44, lives, on Friday afternoon.

Police believe Charlie Rowley, 45, and Ms Sturgess were exposed to Novichok after handling the unknown object.

The pair remain in a critical condition in hospital.

The item was unlikely to have been left in the open before they touched it, a government scientist has told BBC News.

BBC home affairs correspondent Daniel Sandford said the search for the item could take "weeks or months" and that no objects have yet been collected for testing.

Interesting survey at Porton Down laboratory:

Quote
Staff at secretive defence centre Porton Down suffer low morale and lack confidence in leadership, survey reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/porton-down-chemical-weapons-employees-staff-morale-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-russia-a8293486.html

What if an employee from Porton Down wanted to play a hero to show the importance of the laboratory and even get a promotion? And then deliberately poisoned Skripals and issued false claims that it was Novichek from Russia (although if it was real Novichek, the victims would be already dead, or in any case not fully recovered). It was quite suspicious that antidote for Skripals came from Porton Down very quickly and was quite effective, it looks like they already knew what kind of poison was used (if it was a secret Russian poison, they would need to conduct a research first to find the proper antidote).

You should write a thriller with that imagination.



Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: jackg on July 06, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
Interesting survey at Porton Down laboratory:

Quote
Staff at secretive defence centre Porton Down suffer low morale and lack confidence in leadership, survey reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/porton-down-chemical-weapons-employees-staff-morale-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-russia-a8293486.html

What if an employee from Porton Down wanted to play a hero to show the importance of the laboratory and even get a promotion? And then deliberately poisoned Skripals and issued false claims that it was Novichek from Russia (although if it was real Novichek, the victims would be already dead, or in any case not fully recovered). It was quite suspicious that antidote for Skripals came from Porton Down very quickly and was quite effective, it looks like they already knew what kind of poison was used (if it was a secret Russian poison, they would need to conduct a research first to find the proper antidote).

It took quite a while to cure them or was that just keeping the audience in suspense?

Realistically this really isn't realistic at all it took a while for the antidote to be found and a while to pull all three of them out of a critical condition and a high dependency unit.

Maybe Russia didn't want a murder case on their hands, they probably know the strength of the antidoes the UK have (they have antidotes for quite a few novichok serums and for the UK VX serums and the antidotes are usually general for both substances so they'd just need a low strength novichok to give a message of their strength).


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Carlton Banks on July 12, 2018, 05:57:04 PM
My analysis:


The UK gov's story is ridiculous

For all the reasons now stated ad nauseum. Plus, why would the Russian gov do something so publicly, and so superficially gruesome?


...but the alternative story (that the Russian gov imply) is also ridiculous

Why would the British gov do something so incredibly transparent? It's so obviously implausible that anyone except the most tribally aligned would willingly believe it.



The British and Russian govs are probably doing a joint PR operation here, and the objective is likely to push people with strong anti or pro Russian positions even further into entrenchment (and subsequently ratchet up the "cold war 2.0" narrative). So it's likely good old fashioned divide & conquer, basically. That's been the outcome after all; pro-russians & anti-russians have a bigger distrust between them than ever, and the only benefit can be whatever outcome of the cold war 2.0 narrative is desired (which is likely both governments becoming more repressive, because public safety)


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: payyy on July 16, 2018, 05:49:41 PM
If Skripal poisoned by Russians, Britain hide the details of the investigation and  detain him. Russia, on the contrary, wants to achieve an honest and truthful investigation. They are not afraid of the truth because they have nothing to hide.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Andrey3010 on August 23, 2018, 06:28:19 PM
Here the answer is very simple and logical. When Russia attacked Georgia, the Russians got away with it. That's why Russia invaded Ukraine without knowing what consequences this war will bring to Russia itself! So with the poisoning of the Violin. Before this in Britain, Litvinenko was poisoned in the same way, and this was also taken off by the Russians. That's what they decided to do with Skrypal.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: groko271 on August 24, 2018, 12:01:52 AM
The British military base at Porton Down - deemed a "pioneer in chemicals research" - is more than capable of manufacturing it. Chances are that they manufactured it, but unfortunately a truly independent investigation will never be allowed to take place while the likes of Theresa May sits in government.

This is exactly my thoughts regarding this. In fact the strain of chemical used in this case is more likely from Porton Down than Russia says the "experts". In saying that the whole spook game is a mishmash of disinfo and puzzles. No one will ever know truth. regardless of who investigates.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: jackg on September 05, 2018, 07:18:44 PM
The alias' of the perpetrators was released recently by the UK government...

Both governments are probably capable of producing the substances though.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: hatshepsut93 on September 07, 2018, 08:58:52 AM
My analysis:


The UK gov's story is ridiculous

For all the reasons now stated ad nauseum. Plus, why would the Russian gov do something so publicly, and so superficially gruesome?



It's about sending the message to all the "traitors": "we can get you no matter where you hide, and we can do it again and again".

Russia will face absolutely no repercussions for this, maybe just some slap on the wrist, and that's exactly why the did this - because they've been getting away with so much shit in the recent years.



Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 07, 2018, 11:01:03 AM
You guys are missing the whole point. Russia wants Syria to be a democratic nation, and is supporting Assad to achieve this. The Eton/Oxford elite ( read the US, the UK, and the EU ) want it to be a deep state satellite under their control. Syria and Russia want to free Idlib, but that is the last of the UK white helmets terrorist strongholds, so they don't want that. They need to stir up justification for an attack on the legitimate forces, and they seek to villify Russia again with this stupid story about the "arrests". The UK needs to realise that their poisoning of Skripal failed, and they should just let the pathetic attempt fade away instead of making themselves look even more stupid and corrupt.

I wonder if Russia has managed to discourage them from trying yet another fake chemical attack to justify the US/UK attack on the civilians of Idlib.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on September 07, 2018, 12:09:10 PM
My analysis:


The UK gov's story is ridiculous

For all the reasons now stated ad nauseum. Plus, why would the Russian gov do something so publicly, and so superficially gruesome?



It's about sending the message to all the "traitors": "we can get you no matter where you hide, and we can do it again and again".

Russia will face absolutely no repercussions for this, maybe just some slap on the wrist, and that's exactly why the did this - because they've been getting away with so much shit in the recent years.



I don't know about that, there probably will be punishments in some form or another (sanctions and so on). Having foreign agents poison people on British soil is pretty serious, especially when innocents are caught up in the process, but it's not like countries like the UK and Russia ever play by the rules. Espionage is illegal in most countries around the world but doesn't stop Russia, the UK or the USA engaging in it constantly. If the UK lets this action slide then they're goign to seem very weak.

The UK needs to realise that their poisoning of Skripal failed, and they should just let the pathetic attempt fade away instead of making themselves look even more stupid and corrupt.

What makes you so sure it's the British that did it? It's looking more and more like it was in fact the Russians, but if it wasn't the Russians then the British obvious did it for some reason and they're not going to let it go if that's the case. I'm sure there's much more effective ways for them to stoke the fire and fan the flames than this, though.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: jackg on September 07, 2018, 12:30:34 PM
The UK needs to realise that their poisoning of Skripal failed, and they should just let the pathetic attempt fade away instead of making themselves look even more stupid and corrupt.

What makes you so sure it's the British that did it? It's looking more and more like it was in fact the Russians, but if it wasn't the Russians then the British obvious did it for some reason and they're not going to let it go if that's the case. I'm sure there's much more effective ways for them to stoke the fire and fan the flames than this, though.

It's fairly obvious it was indeed Russians, I'm surprised the information actually hit the news. There's a lot of other news about russia that doesn't seem to be as documented as this incident, the reason the other incidents go fairly undocumented is that it shows how weak the British government actually are and how they won't put on any sactions or even threaten another country...


The other issue in the UK is that The Queen is given too much control and appears to just be signing through anything the PM presents to her (which shouldn't be done as the parliament should vote in favour and then the bill should be handed to The Queen or one of her associates for Royal Assent)...


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 07, 2018, 01:15:17 PM
Royal assent is just a formality now. The Queen has no power to withhold it in practice.

There is no logical reasons for the Russians to use Novichok in the UK, and there is no evidence. The government is aware of this, and it refuses to allow any investigation, or to provide any analysis or permission for an external review. The only possibility that fits the facts is that the poisoning was done by a German EU asset working in Porton Down. If the Russians had done it, they would all be dead, it wouldn't have been a botched publicity stunt. The timing fits the UK agenda, and it is against any Russian interest as well.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: jackg on September 07, 2018, 02:43:51 PM
How's it against russian agenda, it's not like the government are going to do anything about it anyway.

I thought the EU officials were doing their analysis on the novichok also. If it was a british attack, wny not use VX and just say you don't know where it came from...


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on September 08, 2018, 01:44:41 PM
The UK needs to realise that their poisoning of Skripal failed, and they should just let the pathetic attempt fade away instead of making themselves look even more stupid and corrupt.

What makes you so sure it's the British that did it? It's looking more and more like it was in fact the Russians, but if it wasn't the Russians then the British obvious did it for some reason and they're not going to let it go if that's the case. I'm sure there's much more effective ways for them to stoke the fire and fan the flames than this, though.

It's fairly obvious it was indeed Russians, I'm surprised the information actually hit the news. There's a lot of other news about russia that doesn't seem to be as documented as this incident, the reason the other incidents go fairly undocumented is that it shows how weak the British government actually are and how they won't put on any sactions or even threaten another country...



I think it's fairly obvious now, but I was a bit skeptical at first, but I like to keep an open mind.

There is no logical reasons for the Russians to use Novichok in the UK

Please elaborate why there's no logic. It's probably more logical than just gunning them down in the street. The Russians have done it before on British soil with the radiation poising of Litvinenko. I admit that if you wanted to frame Russia then the UK could likely do it the same way, but that seems the less likely scenario here and the opposite is the exciting conspiracy about it being a false flag attack.

and there is no evidence. The government is aware of this, and it refuses to allow any investigation, or to provide any analysis or permission for an external review. The only possibility that fits the facts is that the poisoning was done by a German EU asset working in Porton Down. If the Russians had done it, they would all be dead, it wouldn't have been a botched publicity stunt. The timing fits the UK agenda, and it is against any Russian interest as well.

What's the evidence that it was the UK? There now seems to be quite a bit of evidence of Russian involvement:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/05/novichok-poisoning-what-we-know-so-far
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/05/uk-builds-pressure-on-russia-after-naming-spies-as-novichok-attackers

Two Russian agents fly into the UK two days before and are in the same area. You think that's a coincidence?

The first link above details the pair's movements:

Quote
Basu said the pair, who are charged with conspiracy to murder, entered Britain 48 hours before the assassination attempt travelling on official Russian passports issued in the false names they used. They were named by British police as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, believed to be aliases.

British prosecutors said there was enough evidence to charge the Russian pair with conspiracy to murder Sergei Skripal, himself a former GRU officer who sold Russian secrets to Britain before settling in Salisbury, Wiltshire.

Police produced CCTV footage of the Russian assassination team during their 50-hour visit to Britain, entering at Gatwick airport at 3pm on Friday 2 March, and smuggling in the novichok.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 08, 2018, 02:15:09 PM

Police produced CCTV footage of the Russian assassination team during their 50-hour visit to Britain, entering at Gatwick airport at 3pm on Friday 2 March, and smuggling in the novichok.
[/quote]

What a load of bollocks - if they could see them smuggling in novichok, why did they let me through customs.

Also, I don't believe that anyone has been charged, and they haven't disclosed their real names for anyone to check on them.

Here is a video about the alleged perpetrators -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5f0L0olahA

The main reason why I don't think it could possibly be the Russians is the incompetent amateurism associated with the event(s). If it had been the Russians, then they would have done the job properly, and they would not have made such a botched job of the publicity. In fact they would have avoided any publicity, as the publicity is carefully arranged to damage Russia.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on September 08, 2018, 02:42:47 PM

Police produced CCTV footage of the Russian assassination team during their 50-hour visit to Britain, entering at Gatwick airport at 3pm on Friday 2 March, and smuggling in the novichok.


What a load of bollocks - if they could see them smuggling in novichok, why did they let me through customs.

What makes you think they brought it through customs? They could have just picked it up from somewhere in the UK. It's not like drugs aren't smuggled in through there everyday, though. Besides, it's probably not that difficult to get through. It was stored in some sort of perfume bottle:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/AD-COMPOSITE-Perfume-V3.jpg

That wouldn't look amiss in anyone's luggage and I don't think airports screen for this sort of stuff, especially  if it wasn't in their hand-luggage.

Also, I don't believe that anyone has been charged, and they haven't disclosed their real names for anyone to check on them.

The probably don't know their real names, but they were traveling on fake passports under the names of Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/05/salisbury-poisonings-police-name-and-charge-two-suspects

Quote
CPS says there is enough evidence to charge Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov over Wiltshire novichok poisonings


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 08, 2018, 03:28:35 PM

What makes you think they brought it through customs? They could have just picked it up from somewhere in the UK.

Such as Porton Down?

Didn't they state that they knew it was smuggled through customs, and they had the evidence?

The media would say they were Russian agents if they were seen drinking English made vodka.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: akosipepot on September 08, 2018, 07:17:58 PM
The evidence doesn't support the fact that Novichok was used.

I agree there is no good case without solid evidence which in this case is lacking.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: jackg on September 08, 2018, 09:35:49 PM
Didn't they state that they knew it was smuggled through customs, and they had the evidence?
NO. If they had evidence then the UK would be involved wouldn't it?
It's more likely it came through in a suitcase or something in hold luggage - it's not screened for novichok.

The media would say they were Russian agents if they were seen drinking English made vodka.

Errrr. Alright.
Don't know why you'd drink English vodka though (is there such a thing)?


I agree there is no good case without solid evidence which in this case is lacking.

There isn't, that's true. They were also very fast to say it was Russia.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Carlton Banks on September 09, 2018, 10:26:02 AM
It is no surprise to me that almost no-one in this discussion is interested in the totality of the actual evidence. You're mostly making assumptions and suppositions about what is true and what is false, and solely based on which story you prefer, not whether aspects of either story is or isn't credible. Both stories are flawed.

This Salisbury story is a part of a very serious trend in world events, your only loyalty ought to be to the truth. When no serious investigation is taking place on the part of those whose professional duty is to investigate cases like these, it is your responsibility to do the most objective job you can with the material you have available, i.e. as if you were the jury in an actual trial, where real people's real futures were at stake, which they are. It's sad, but that's not what's happening in this thread.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 09, 2018, 12:41:51 PM
It is no surprise to me that almost no-one in this discussion is interested in the totality of the actual evidence. You're mostly making assumptions and suppositions about what is true and what is false, and solely based on which story you prefer, not whether aspects of either story is or isn't credible. Both stories are flawed.


The totality is that it is part of a fake initiative to discredit Russia, and the resurrection of the fake Skripal story is just an addition to prepare us for another (probably fake) chemical attack on Idlib by the British funded White Helmets. This may be followed by the killing of civilians by the UK and the US. It is particularly dangerous now, as Syria and Russia have synchronised the signatures of their fighter planes, and the risk of mistakes in target identification has increased. It won't take much to escalate into a major war, especially as China is joining the party.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Carlton Banks on September 09, 2018, 01:20:21 PM
It is no surprise to me that almost no-one in this discussion is interested in the totality of the actual evidence. You're mostly making assumptions and suppositions about what is true and what is false, and solely based on which story you prefer, not whether aspects of either story is or isn't credible. Both stories are flawed.


The totality is that it is part of a fake initiative to discredit Russia

There's no evidence to support that (and you'll probably never find any).

You're treating it very absolutely, that there are only 2 options: either one trusts the British establishment's interpretation. or the Russian establishment's interpretation. These are not the only 2 possibilities, however. You're right to distrust the British establishment, but the same reasoning can be equally applied to distrust the Russian establishment too.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: EmmaBen on September 09, 2018, 01:47:15 PM
It is really difficult to say whom that is responsible without facts. The skripal case as I understand involves a high degree of power game between the USA and Russia, with rhetorics and mutually playing the blame game. No one can say a thing in this issue without definite proof. No matter how one analyses pseudo-facts, the truth remains: the public has no idea who did it.

However, because the human brain is too apt to joining issues, even before or without concrete knowledge, I would like to throw my own opinion into the pool as well.
Observe: Closely looking at both super powers, and comparing fresh events of the past; in international treaties, trade, and diplomacy, between the two, who is more willing to foster peace and mutual cooperation, who is readily steered to pick up a fight with the other, even over trivial and insignificant events, who is aggressive and tends to domineer, who is more thoughtful and systemic in approach to matters; thus, who's a boy and who's a man, who is noisy, and who is more quiet? Lastly, and probably the best proof regarding this case: who has demonstrated the greatest scandalousness?

How does all these relate to Sergei Skripal's poisoning?
 The whole thing looks bizarre, and one may find it really difficult to arrive at a comprehensively logical picture devoid of damning errors. It is difficult because the possibilities are tenfold. In Wikipedia's article about (google keyword): "who poisoned skripal", Britain accuses the Russian state, and her nationals Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov of using a chemical lethal compound  (Novichok nerve agent) in Scripal's poisoning,and calls them suspects. While the Russian government has repeatedly denied any involvement.

But who looses more from a demised skripal; is it the UK/USA government or is it Russia? Or, was the incident a precedented scheme designed to further propagate Russia's already battered global image, with the aim of punishing Russia through more sanctions for "committing" such an act. What does Russia gain from the death of a former military intelligence officer, Is it fear of supplying UK/USA government with critical information about Russia's military intelligence, If so, how updated is skripal's intelligence about present Russia's military capabilities, does he still have any sound intelligence gathering network, hasn't he  done that already in times of his active years and double secret service to Britain and Russia, a practice I consider dishonourable and treasonable? Why should Russia kill him now, when he was already convicted in the past and punished, when Russia had all favourable opportunities to silence him for good? Or, does the British government believe that he was/is also sharing British intelligence with Russia as a spy?

It is said that the Novichok agent was "found in a body spray container by a man" who gave it to a lady, and the lady sprayed the "perfume" on her waist, and eventually died from contamination. This happened in Salisbury after skripal was poisoned. However, not much is said about the man who "found" the container.

 While this is right or wrong, the whole thing is a confusion and in disarray.

Were there no more clean and more lethal options for Russia to use other than the nerve agent? How many of such cases are recorded from the past that can be confidently traced to Russia, and if any, has the USA of UK government not in one way or the other involved in more atrocious deeds? Who can truthfully, and confidently say that he is cleaner than the other?

The way I look at it (my opinion) three things are involved:
1. The UK government collaborating the USA government, in a precedented effort, to frame the Russian government into more sanctions and economic/political marginalisation. Or,
2. The Russian government deliberately poisoning Sergei Skripal for fear of military intelligence sabotage.
3. The British government deliberately poisoning Sergei and his daughter(...) for fear of British intelligence sabotage.
All points are in order of preference.



Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on September 09, 2018, 02:41:47 PM

What makes you think they brought it through customs? They could have just picked it up from somewhere in the UK.

Such as Porton Down?

Didn't they state that they knew it was smuggled through customs, and they had the evidence?

The media would say they were Russian agents if they were seen drinking English made vodka.

I don't know how it was brought in for certain but it's not me that needs convincing of how it got here. I think you're just going to believe whatever you want to believe. There could be video footage of them committing the act and pictures of the two assailants sipping champagne with Putin on a yacht off the coast of Russia and you'd probably find some issue with it.

It is no surprise to me that almost no-one in this discussion is interested in the totality of the actual evidence. You're mostly making assumptions and suppositions about what is true and what is false, and solely based on which story you prefer, not whether aspects of either story is or isn't credible. Both stories are flawed.

This Salisbury story is a part of a very serious trend in world events, your only loyalty ought to be to the truth. When no serious investigation is taking place on the part of those whose professional duty is to investigate cases like these, it is your responsibility to do the most objective job you can with the material you have available, i.e. as if you were the jury in an actual trial, where real people's real futures were at stake, which they are. It's sad, but that's not what's happening in this thread.

But we're not on the jury. If we were we'd have access to all the available evidence and could make a more informed decision based on the facts at hand. At the moment all we have to go on are sources from the media and it's not like they can't be biased with their own agendas as well.

It is no surprise to me that almost no-one in this discussion is interested in the totality of the actual evidence. You're mostly making assumptions and suppositions about what is true and what is false, and solely based on which story you prefer, not whether aspects of either story is or isn't credible. Both stories are flawed.


The totality is that it is part of a fake initiative to discredit Russia

There's no evidence to support that (and you'll probably never find any).

You're treating it very absolutely, that there are only 2 options: either one trusts the British establishment's interpretation. or the Russian establishment's interpretation. These are not the only 2 possibilities, however. You're right to distrust the British establishment, but the same reasoning can be equally applied to distrust the Russian establishment too.

Jet Cash obviously wants to believe the one that suits his agenda more hence the conspiracy he's already proposed. You can't trust the Russians just the same as the Brits, but in this case -- and in my opinion -- this is more likely to be a Russian-lead attack rather than a false flag committed by the UK.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Carlton Banks on September 09, 2018, 03:26:38 PM
Jet Cash obviously wants to believe the one that suits his agenda more hence the conspiracy he's already proposed. You can't trust the Russians just the same as the Brits, but in this case -- and in my opinion -- this is more likely to be a Russian-lead attack rather than a false flag committed by the UK.

The version of the story offered by the website you linked to is an accusation of conspiracy too. You're one of these people who don't know what the word "conspiracy" actually means, but still use it anyway


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on September 09, 2018, 04:31:38 PM
Jet Cash obviously wants to believe the one that suits his agenda more hence the conspiracy he's already proposed. You can't trust the Russians just the same as the Brits, but in this case -- and in my opinion -- this is more likely to be a Russian-lead attack rather than a false flag committed by the UK.

The version of the story offered by the website you linked to is an accusation of conspiracy too. You're one of these people who don't know what the word "conspiracy" actually means, but still use it anyway

I think you're one of these people that assumes too much. I know what a conspiracy means:

Quote
a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

Show me where I said one wasn't a conspiracy. I haven't said anything is fact, but that Jet Cash just believes in the theory that is more in line with what he wants to be true. I'm not even going to rule out that it wasn't a "false flag", I just find that the less plausible scenario. I'm open to changing my mind presented with evidence, but wild conspiracy theories aren't evidence and so far there's more believable evidence presented showing Russian involvement and that's the way I'm leaning right now.

With that being said, let's not forget Jet Cash does like his wild conspiracy theories:

Sorry I've been out of this thread for a while.

The latest info seems to point to the fact that the culprit was an asset run by the European Union who was working in Porton Down. It seems that he was inexperienced, and that is why the attempt failed. The deep state needs an event to distract interest from the treasonous actions of the Unicorn prime minister Theresa May.

In view of the Skripal murder attempt becoming unravelled, they seem to have started another false action - the gas attack by Assad. No intelligent person would ever believe that he would do this, especially as he seems to be winning back his country.

Lets hope that the evidence will further discredit the Clintons, Obama, Richard Branson, Tony Blair, Soros, Bill Gates and all the others who want a global war as part of their eugenics project.

Unless he does have some evidence leading the Skripal poising to this secret eugenics program and Richard Branson, but I'm all ears.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Carlton Banks on September 09, 2018, 05:55:37 PM
so far there's more believable evidence presented showing Russian involvement and that's the way I'm leaning right now

There's no evidence of that at all. Your preferred version of the story is also a theory, the British government announcements are actually very carefully written in a such a way that they don't make any direct accusations, although they strongly insinuate a Russian state intelligence role nevertheless.

But the British government still plainly state that they do not have adequate evidence, and yet you believe you have more evidence (from reading newspaper articles) than they do. "It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled"


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 09, 2018, 07:36:15 PM
Errrr. Alright.
Don't know why you'd drink English vodka though (is there such a thing)?

https://www.wildknightvodka.co.uk/

Also available in perfume bottles for alleged Russian agents.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on September 11, 2018, 04:56:42 PM
so far there's more believable evidence presented showing Russian involvement and that's the way I'm leaning right now

There's no evidence of that at all.

There is -- in my opinion -- and certainly more than this being a inside job, for which there is actually currently none apart from conspiracy theories from those who desperately want to believe the opposite of what is likely the truth.

Your preferred version of the story is also a theory,

Again, where did I say it wasn't?

the British government announcements are actually very carefully written in a such a way that they don't make any direct accusations, although they strongly insinuate a Russian state intelligence role nevertheless.
But the British government still plainly state that they do not have adequate evidence

They probably -- or possibly -- don't have enough evidence to successfully get a conviction in court yet, but that doesn't mean there isn't any evidence already that suggests Russian involvement or they don't already know exactly who did it. Sometimes you know who committed a crime but don't have all the evidence yet (or enough to convict or it's shaky/circumstantial). You need concrete and watertight evidence to get a conviction for obvious reasons, and you don't go guns blazing with the minimal amount you do have or wait until you collect more (or certainly before you make it public).

But the British government still plainly state that they do not have adequate evidence, and yet you believe  you have more evidence (from reading newspaper articles) than they do.

Can you point me to where I said I have more evidence than they do? Maybe you should go through all my posts in this thread and actually read what I've wrote instead of trying to attack me over something I haven't said. I've remained largely neutral in most of my posts and I already said I'm not convinced either way, but I do lean to what seems to be the most logical explanation based on the available evidence (no matter how little that may be), but you seem to ignore that.

"It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled"

Maybe, but who are you trying to fool with this theory:

The British and Russian govs are probably doing a joint PR operation here, and the objective is likely to push people with strong anti or pro Russian positions even further into entrenchment (and subsequently ratchet up the "cold war 2.0" narrative). So it's likely good old fashioned divide & conquer, basically. That's been the outcome after all; pro-russians & anti-russians have a bigger distrust between them than ever, and the only benefit can be whatever outcome of the cold war 2.0 narrative is desired (which is likely both governments becoming more repressive, because public safety)

Because we're going to need to see some sources and evidence for this as well, or is it just another wild idiotic conspiracy theory based on absolutely nothing? Or are you claiming you actually know more than both the Russian and UK security services combined?

https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/w/williamshakespeare/109517/williamshakespeare1.jpg


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: RodeoX on September 11, 2018, 05:02:07 PM
All evidence points to Russia. There is no question about it among spies and their agencies. I am guessing they thought they were going to get away with it. Perhaps they have killed others and gotten away with it?


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Carlton Banks on September 11, 2018, 05:50:54 PM
Maybe, but who are you trying to fool with this theory:

The British and Russian govs are probably doing a joint PR operation here, and the objective is likely to push people with strong anti or pro Russian positions even further into entrenchment (and subsequently ratchet up the "cold war 2.0" narrative). So it's likely good old fashioned divide & conquer, basically. That's been the outcome after all; pro-russians & anti-russians have a bigger distrust between them than ever, and the only benefit can be whatever outcome of the cold war 2.0 narrative is desired (which is likely both governments becoming more repressive, because public safety)

Because we're going to need to see some sources and evidence for this as well, or is it just another wild idiotic conspiracy theory based on absolutely nothing? Or are you claiming you actually know more than both the Russian and UK security services combined?

Maybe it's you that needs to read before you talk; at no point do I suggest I know anything, hence use of conditions such as "probably" and "likely".

And curiously, you fall perfectly into the outcome I suggested: that of an unthinking cheerleader for whatever suits your personality and tribal loyalties. You're simply repeating what you've been told by people you trust, whereas history should demonstrate to you that trusting the corporate media on important matters is frequently a mistake.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: malevolent on September 12, 2018, 02:13:07 AM
All evidence points to Russia. There is no question about it among spies and their agencies. I am guessing they thought they were going to get away with it. Perhaps they have killed others and gotten away with it?

That's just their style, they don't care as much what the world thinks of them to put more effort, and it's not their first fuckup. What counts is that future would-be spies will think twice before betraying their governments.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on September 12, 2018, 09:11:32 AM
Maybe it's you that needs to read before you talk; at no point do I suggest I know anything, hence use of conditions such as "probably" and "likely".

Well this is where things go over your head because I was using your own twisted logic and dishonesty here, because according to you anything I say is a possibility or is more likely is taken as fact by you to build your own straw man even though I never said anything of the sort, but it's funny how it's perfectly acceptable for you to invent your own wild conspiracies and anyone who may lean towards something more based in reality and what the establishment are saying as opposed to baseless conspiracies is an 'unthinking cheerleader'. If I'm a unthinking cheerleader then you're surely a paranoid conspiracytard. Believing that two Russian spies may have been responsible for using a Russian-made poison to take out a known Russian double agent as opposed to some other wild conspiracy isn't exactly far-fetched or foolish, but the real idiots here are the fools who invent the baseless conspiracies whilst denouncing everyone else who may think or feel differently, which you are amongst.

And curiously, you fall perfectly into the outcome I suggested: that of an unthinking cheerleader for whatever suits your personality and tribal loyalties. You're simply repeating what you've been told by people you trust, whereas history should demonstrate to you that trusting the corporate media on important matters is frequently a mistake.

I know you're still sore from the repeated spankings I gave you the other day but you're just making things up and outright lying now. For someone who is so against straw-men I'm surprised you resort to them so frequently. Again, please point to me where I've said all this, or please drop this dishonesty. I've literally said the exact opposite of what you're claiming, but you don't bother actually reading what I write because that doesn't fit in with your strawman you keep trying to build:

You can't trust the Russians just the same as the Brits

Who needs proof when the media will spread what message you want out there for you. It's the same thing with the suspecting Iraq of having Nuclear weapons and Afghanistan harbouring Bin Laden which was used to justify the entire invasions:

Apparently requesting proof of any evidence is just a delaying tactic these days. Now we've just got to wait and see what sanctions or repercussions they try to put on Russia.

I don't trust the Russians. I don't trust the UK. I don't trust the media (Russian, US or UK), but this doesn't fit in with your strawman does it. I just happen to think this is more likely -- get that, more likely ie not a fact -- a Russian hit job, but apparently according to you that makes me a sheep for believing the narrative the media are also going with (but is it not possible that this might actually just be a Russian hit?), but those facts don't line up with your narrative and obvious biases of being so anti-state/media, so you'd be blind to the truth anyway and stick to inventing your own conspiracies instead.

If you're going to try pick apart or attack something I said please make sure I've actually said it first.



Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Carlton Banks on September 12, 2018, 12:53:54 PM
I know you're still sore from the repeated spankings I gave you the other day but you're just making things up and outright lying now.

You're letting your ego drive you far too much. I don't really care about internet ego, that's why I don't need to use derogatory labels in order to protect mine.


You can't trust the Russians just the same as the Brits

Who needs proof when the media will spread what message you want out there for you. It's the same thing with the suspecting Iraq of having Nuclear weapons and Afghanistan harbouring Bin Laden which was used to justify the entire invasions:

Apparently requesting proof of any evidence is just a delaying tactic these days. Now we've just got to wait and see what sanctions or repercussions they try to put on Russia.

I don't trust the Russians. I don't trust the UK. I don't trust the media (Russian, US or UK), but this doesn't fit in with your strawman does it. I just happen to think this is more likely -- get that, more likely ie not a fact -- a Russian hit job, but apparently according to you that makes me a sheep for believing the narrative the media are also going with (but is it not possible that this might actually just be a Russian hit?), but those facts don't line up with your narrative and obvious biases of being so anti-state/media, so you'd be blind to the truth anyway and stick to inventing your own conspiracies instead.

If you're going to try pick apart or attack something I said please make sure I've actually said it first.

Well, you've said you lean towards believing the story the British police have put forward about Skripal. But their story doesn't make any sense; apparently, both Skripal and his daughter both touched the doorknob that had been sprayed with a fast acting nerve agent, when in reality it would be unlikely that both would close the front door to Skripal's house. That would be incredibly sloppy on behalf of those conducting an attack, depending on which of the 2 Skripals they were targeting. There's no way they could be sure which of the 2 would close the door! Then, having both used the front doorknob, they walked to a restaurant, where Sergei is reported by eyewitnesses to have been in an angry tirade, then went to the park. Only then, a few hours after being poisoned, did they succumb to a fatal and fast acting nerve agent.

This cannot be correct. You don't need a journalist to come along and say "the UK Police and Theresa May's government lied about the events of the Skripal case", as was the case with the Blair government's lies about Saddam Hussein's WMD, or about Osama bin Laden being protected by the Taliban (it's not even clear that this was a lie, I've never seen convincing evidence about exactly who was protecting Bin Laden or anywhere he lived subsequent to the September 11th attacks).

But I gt the feeling this is exactly how you're processing this: you're waiting for someone you trust to tell you what to think. This is not critical thinking about the facts, you're just following other's points of view if so. Feel free to prove me wrong, but you're not well known for using factual arguments at this stage.


Title: Re: Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 13, 2018, 07:23:01 PM
The latest twist in this case - an interview with the alleged perpetrators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGNaHZmzMm8