Bitcoin Forum

Hi to you all !!

Is it possible to make alts move without growth of BTC ?

I know it is possible just look at MC down to 280b today. And we can see a few coins going up when BTC is going down. Know many sell their alts moving to BTC when the market going down. What if we all stop doing this and just focus on the coins we believe in ?

If BTC drops 50% you will lose the same amount of $ if you hold BTC or another coin (know BTC will recover faster) if thats your excuse. I see many post topics about why do alts drop. But to answer that question do alts drop because most of the traders move their investments from alts to BTC when the market goes red.

Why dont we just stop doing this and change the crypto world together ?

Nobody is doing anything, it is the market reacting to news and whatever else. And you are asking everybody to come together and be on the same team? Lol that isn't what a free market is. And to answer your first question, last year alts did move when BTC was down or stagnant. But that clearly hasn't been the case for almost a year now, and to me alts will move once BTC does again.

Bitcoin is the main gate for the money get into the crypto world.
Also altcoins are seen a even higher risk investment than Bitcoin.
So with very few exceptions (which usually are short-lived pumps), the alts grow after a Bitcoin recovery period.
Of course, it's not a 100% certain rule, but there were extremely few cases the market didn't follow this pattern.

Till now Bitcoin is horse of market.
So market Will go up if bitcoin Will go up.
I think that in 2018 there Will not be any changes and bitcoin will still be this horse.
But in future when there will be more "bitcoins", market will be different and alts will/can move without main cryptocurrency.

Up to some extent 'Yes' but it won't sustain forever. For example look at Ethereum and Bitcoin cash prices when they were in peak. Remember to check both BTC and USD pairs. Alts not only lost in USD but also in BTC terms. Alts can't survive without BTC as of now.

Bitcoin is like the "Dollar" of cryptocurrency, its the basis for altcoin prices and value, just imagine a two-country exchanging their products not sure how they would weight the equivalent of their products so they need a "minimum" or basis, that's one function of the Bitcoin, to make sure altcoin get their right value as compares to others, alt can move but how will you know you get your items value before trading it to other product?

Normally when Bitcoin moves, other coins tend to follow suit shortly after, as most exchanges are based on BTC/OTHER, hence there will always be a relationship if the coin is traded against bitcoin. The only way to have a coin that does not follow this trend would be to give it a set value like tether, but then this won't be a suitable investment so it probably wouldn't take off.

Personally in my opinion it's possible, but bitcoin will have such influence on market at all, like it's now, until the cryptoworld have a new leader, new symbol, like it's Ethereum now, but as we see now - it's too connected to bitcoin price..

If there is nothing to replace btc, alt can move without btc because btc is intermediary currency,it is used to price alts.
If there is something to value alts so alts can move without btc

1. Yes. If there is a positive development or change in the project behind the coin.

2. We can't do this. Most of the alts aren't pegged on USD pair only the top coins are pegged on USD so there's no other choice for the other to be paired to BTC ir ETH. That's why when the BTC goes down, the alts go down too.

Each currencies depends to the other kind of currency. If the bitcoin will go rise the other altcoins are affected, either it will be good or have a bad value. It doesn't mean that nothing possible in this crypto world.

Certainly. I saw some graphs of exchanges showing an altcoin rising in value even when bitcoin is going down. But for most of the graphs, it follows bitcoin. What might be happening here in my opinion is that most investors consider bitcoin as their bases or reference for investing. When it seems failing they as well won't be investing. When market is good they would also invest in the altcoins. But as I have noticed it is possible to make altcoin moves different than btc.

as far i know, bitcoin is the main pairs in most of crypto exchange,
so, its impossible to make altcoins move without bitcoin

As long as bitcoin is the store of value in crypto market, it will always effect its pair when its value moves. That is how market works and we cannot control the movement of bitcoin. CMC shows value in dollars, that is why when bitcoin falls, the value of other coins also falls in first glance.

The number of coin paired with ETH is growing, maybe someday the market will not be too dependent on bitcoin as a pair.

it will be so difficult because the majority of altcoins pair are using bitcoin to be as the primary.

It doesn't make sense to see the majority of coins are decreasing a lot when bitcoin gets dump.

But it looks like altcoin will stay at this way for the more time. Until they will not be pegged again with the bitcoin to give a domination to the altcoins trend. if bitcoin still to be used by the majority of altcoins as price pgged and then it will never be happened.

Nowadays all altcoins are always based on Bitcoin price, so when Bitcoin price increases then Altcoin price will also change. Bitcoin is still an important component and there is no coin that can replace its role. Yes although there is Etherum is often said to be a coin that has a high popularity like Bitcoin, but still it may take a long time if you have to compare Bitcoin and Etherum. Currently we are still enforcing Bitcoin as a coin that has been accepted by many places in the world, payment via Bitcoin be the choice of many people because of its ease. We can easily and quickly in doing every financial transaction, whenever and wherever we are it will not be a problem.

Bitcoin is still consider the main cryptocurrency due to its track record. No other alts can compete with bitcoin currently.
Also, all alts are usually traded in BTC or ETH pair. When traders cut loss due to market going down, the only way to do it is by selling to BTC or ETH and then to fiat. This is the way it is now. Maybe when DEX takes off and peer-to-peer exchange is possible, this correlation will change

The movement of the crypto currency is due to the degree of people's belief in it. If everyone unanimously begins to believe, let's say, in the Dash, then its price will grow regardless of the general situation on the market. And because the market is now saturated with new assets, the situation ceases to look stable. This is my opinion, crypto currency is not obeyed by bitcoin, but by a person.

Of course, altcoins can move without bitcoin, because now they are tied to all the crypto-currencies, I think it was not in vain to do it, but with a certain purpose, probably it is beneficial bitcoin

Yes it is but this won´t happen until people realise what is value and what is just hype and that is likely to be in the longt erm. so good moment to take your positions now.

are usually traded in BTC or ETH pair, Etherum is often said to be a coin that has a high popularity like Bitcoin,  so there's no other choice for the other to be paired to BTC ir ETH.

It's very hard because the market is still depending on Bitcoin heavily. Maybe next years we can see unique altcoins but right now everything is bound to Bitcoin. Ethereum tried to make its own move but failed lately. You can see how hard they fell over.

I hope the day will come when it comes, but there must be such a strong product, it's like an example with ruble money, oil falls and the ruble falls, oil rises and the ruble grows, and no matter how much russia becomes an agrarian supplier, the stereotype has formed that tied the ruble to oil...

The market is very young and therefore unstable. Bitcoin is the flagship. That's why the whole market is still on it. There is a popular opinion that in the future it will lose its leading position.

noway .Btc is like the engine of cryptocurrency . when it falls , people lose faith in the field and panic . we have to wait until Btc rises and also stabilize in price Before going green on alts.

Actually altcoin may stand alone even without bitcoin. But now Bitcoin is the only benchmark for other altcoins. It is possible that altcoin is still using a system that is not much different from bitcoin. The altcoin developers may also be looking for the latest way to find a solution for altcoin to stand alone in the sense that its price will not follow the bitcoin completely.

It is called the cryptocurrency market not the bitcoin market or the altcoin market, when they move they move together its just happens that bitcoin was the first and that is why it has the largest investment cap in it, news and events that happen to this market are what effects the investments and the prices, as you saw over the last couple of months when the cryptocurrnecy had a lot debate from governments it affected every single coin not just bitcoin or the altcoins.

This is the logical reaction of the market. So it was and so it will be. I also really do not like it when the price of coins falls behind the bitcoin.

Well its really possible. We have seen that happens in the past, specially in December. Both altcoins and bitcoin moves in the same pattern, actually most altcoins did soar higher that bitcoin in that time frame so its really it is really possible.

But the thing is that most investors tends to shift their funds a lot in this market. So if you see the bitcoin is gaining and altcoins sliding, it only means that those altcoin holders are moving funds across the other market.

They are highly related to BTC. We cant say fully but higly. What you say and ask is not possible. Everbody holds different altcoins. How can people come together and stay against BTC? And this is "market".

Altcoins are no longer so dependent on Bitcoin as it was last year. I think it's entirely possible for a coin to develop even if BTC is on a dump.

Yes, altcoins are not depending on Bitcoin. But the investors are. The investors are following Bitcoins movement and from there comes the whole transition to alts.
I don't think we will see any altcoin mowing separately this or next year.

Bitcoin is not controlled by anyone and most of the business are going on Bitcoin so the recovery is fast and confirm. But if you take altcoin then they are all controlled by their developers and the movement is almost based on their project success or any pump group play with them. If their is major crash then the altcoin going dead is confirm and recovering of the price is almost dead.

Despite the fact that Bitcoin now is very low in price, he is still a leader and I hope that he will begin to recover.

I have seen so many saying the same thing. If BTC move alts move. So how can we make alts less dependent on BTC movements ? Thats why i say stop moving $ from alts to BTC when the market goes down. If i am wrong about this than lest just forget it ,)

Yes it is and it is all up to us!

i thinks yes. that`s how decred moves usually. but, i guess, this coin has to get it own big demand. it can be reached if alt will be practically usable

Check out WAU Coin, its an appreciating monetary unit that has outperformed almost everything in 2018. The devs of WAU Coin are releasing NUMA soon that will be totally untied from bitcoin and will rise in pairing from usd. Very exciting stuff is happening in cryptocurrency despite the darkness from the crashing in major coins and media

I'm actually very surprised as Bitcoin still remains in the first place, because many altcoins even now show a good price increase.

Alternative coins were not actually made to be dependent on bitcoin. Different kind of coin has soecific purpose to serve and different development track to undergo. The truth is that, altcoins are just dependent on bitcoin because bitcoin is the control variable in most exchanges. I would say that a coin might go higher than bitcoin when developed by the dev team.

I think that this is possible, but under certain conditions, the most important condition is the pricing of other projects to for example other projects, because you need a link between the projects, and this should be some sort of project.

Uniquely can. Recently, we have been watching Bitcoin's last sighs before his final fall. I think it will happen till the end of this year.

I don't understand why not.This is a completely new area that is developing every day and there is a chance of absolutely everything so it seems to me that you can see this in the future

no, anything else may be possible but this one!

altcoins are not unique standalone projects. they are created to help people make more bitcoin when they get pumped and dumped. if they didn't move with bitcoin that means they are not even fulfilling their simple purpose in life.

however, it is possible that in the far future we see some new altcoins that are not created for pump and dump purposes. those won't move with bitcoin. but only in the future.

I don't think one can move in isolation, both depend on each other, people always forget that the success of this Altcoins has helped to srive up the demand for BTC, and also since most of the market is directly tied to BTC, how is it then possible for them to move with BTC influence

this is impossible to make altcoin without bitcoin because the money you earn this is from bitcoin rate listed otherwise you cannot earn money without bitcoin.

Definately possible, just a question of when.

Currently most altcoin purchases have to go through either BTC or ETH, once there are more direct options for purchase, this unbalanced stranglehold will dissipate.

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If all investors including whales dropped bitcoin and switched to alt then yes. But now many still believe in it and make them unconvincing, due to this, it also keeps on leading positions.

This will work if you know how coins really works in their own platform, even bitcoin goes up and down, we cannot hide the truth that bitcoin really affects the movement of all altcoins in the market,  but to move the altcoins without btc, its definitly not. I mean the balance of the value of every single altcoins will not recognized without bitcoin.

Possibly but as a matter of fact, it won't last forever. BTC price will always affect the market entirely as it remains the market determinant i would say. If BTC price goes up in most cases, there would be this drop in all ALTs price and later, ALTS would take their bullish run too. BTC remains the determinant. Thanks

All altcoin prices depend on the price of the BTC, In my opinion the sharks just manipulate the BTC that they can price the other altcoin. As the price of the BTC drops, other altcoin prices drop by 5 or 10. The altcoin market is connected, resonating together.

Because the USD price of majority of altcoins were pegged with bitcoin. The result of development by the developer will be affecting the price of altcoin to the bitcoin or ethereum as the major pair to the various market. USD will be only getting a little impact. Bitcoin still everything in this case.

With current options for buying alts with fiat, ethereum and bitcoincash as base currency. Theoretically that won't be a problem. But still more than 40% of the total market capitalization is held by bitcoin and when this giant moves, it's rare for others not to follow it.

I think not, during the time the altcoin began to emerge, the market was always tied up with bitcoin. however bitcoin is a reference of all altcoins including investment. this is why altcoin is highly dependent on bitcoin. of course this makes the market becomes not independent

Seeing that the whole market of cryptocurrencies purely build based on demand so if the market cap is so big and your money or your group's fund is too small, you are nothing and will not do anything.
What we can't do is controlling the market because most of use aren't whales who have  tons of money to manipulate the market. So saying "why don't we try it?" is rather useless in this case.

Nothing as sure as you say, when investing there are always certain risks! But that's the market rule!

As soon as they will add more pairs with fiat - altcoin the market will become less dependent from bitcoin. I believe is the only way.

I think so too, because without Bitcoin, altcoin it can still be used as it should. but still the benchmark against the exchange rate becomes chaotic because so far bitcoin is a benchmark of the entire price of coin altcoin

You're really asking a very interesting question. I think and I am sure that of course, every project Creator ICO is simply obliged to think about it and be independent of the bitcoin and Ethereum exchange rate.

To do this, there must be preconditions. For example, innovations in altcoin. But this happens rarely

I think that now it is possible, because Bitcoin is clearly not the same as before and its influence has clearly decreased on the market as a whole.

It's too early to say so, but I'm sure that in the near future the BTC will lose it’s influence on the market that it had before. Well, for now, everything is as before.

I think that Bitcoin, in spite of the price drop, is still quite influential on the market, it can be traced by looking at the price of coins for today.

I would like to believe that it is possible, but you can see how the price of Bitcoin affects all other altcoins. They are completely connected, but if BTC can survive the crisis to the best of its popularity, they do not.                     

Well its very difficult for that to happen , though its still in the early stages. everything will recover as soon as the market stabilizes the alts will regain too,

You are offering a mirage into a field that realises dreams. Alts can move without btc but that movement barely counts, as btc is definitely a better investment, and alt prices do depend on it.

The Bitcoin still holds because this is the first of the coins, but I think that it will not flow for long and soon we will see an independent market of altcoins.
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Bitcoin is the main coin in crypto world. Nowadays all altcoins are always based on Bitcoin price, the alts grow after a Bitcoin recovery period.  There is no coin that can replace Bitcoin role now.

Today it seems to work and Malasana,because now everything is linked and depends on the cue ball where the cue ball there and violas,and many now are in fear and are afraid to go out and buy it,because I think that they will lose that cue ball it is a Scam,and so on, we have a very well-there is a system of brainwashing,the media is the sworn enemy of ordinary people,and sredstvo favorite weapon of the rich and the government!!!

Yes it is possible, some of the coin still going up despite BTC price falling down, but because of the most alt coin need to buy from BTC then BTC price will also be impacted, but yes some whale could find a way to pump a coin without bothering the btc

I never trade with BTC. And from what i know can you get all the same coins bought with ETH ? I not understand why anyone use BTC to trade for alts. I have bought BTC a few times from Coinbase with mistake. And it cost way to much just to transfer from Coinbase to Binance. This is why BTC is a NO NO to me. Stop using BTC to trade alts and move  $ around when the market disp and we will be good to go.

When the price of Bitcoin drops, an altcoin becomes more valuable due to the relationship of it's worth being calculated in Bitcoin. If you thought of an altcoin's price remaining the same when Bitcoin drops, you will see that if for example BTC dropped from 10,000 to 5,000 that the alt coins BTC value goes quite high. It's then profitable to buy back into BTC. You could potentially double profits this way.

It may be very difficult for me, because now we can say bitcoin as the brain of the other coins.
Ordinary if bitcoin down other coins also come down, because most of the exchange btc / other coins

Double profit or even ?

If BTC drops 50% and alts do the same. You lose the same amount of cash even if you hold BTC or alts. Know many of you not like tether. But i rather freeze my cash in tether over moving them to BTC. And buy back in when i think the dip is over.

At this time bitcoin have a big Impact on the market as bitcoin dominance is around 45% on the market at this time. So if bitcoin goes down other coins also follow bitcoin as bitcoin is the king so, for now, it's not possible but after some time when the market will get stable and bitcoin dominance will go down then other coins will also be stable.

if bitcoin fall then people more likely to choose the particular altcoin to get profit then i think this is normal because people want utilize falling trend from cryptocurrency but i think altcoins will only being followers of bitcoin so altcoins will never survive without bitcoin

It is possible, but the problem is we all buy bitcoin first then invest in other coins. It's like the stock market, people buy stock with US dollar, if US dollar price goes down stock affected, the same thing with crypto. But I believe we will come out of it soon.

So you buy BTC at coinbase and sent it to Binance ? Why not buy ETH and save your self for a lot of money ?

Because the main currency in crypto world is Bitcoin, whether you like it or not , traders will always move thier investment to Btc. Without Bitcoin majority of the coins has no value. Have you experienced trading? Can you directly convert your alts into USD? As far as I know alts can be sold into Btc then USD or other fiat currency.

I dont think thats possible because every since I have entered in the world of cryptocurrencies,around 2013 all the altcoins follow the path of bitcoin when comes to price. Bitcoin is the main currency used and whenever you want to buy other coins from exchangers you have to firstly buy bitcoin then exchange it for altcoins. At least the cryptocurrencies in the top 50 have the same growth or fall as bitcoin. Probably a new coin can increase faster in price because at the beginning a lot of people buy lots of coins at the same time and the proce is increasing.

from what i think its not possible since BTC is the main gateway to cryptocurrency , before you can buy Alts you gotta buy BITCOIN for most country / place . and its likely hard to move without BTC

Of course yes but not now because currently, people rely on the price of bitcoin to either buy or sell their altcoins. It will come a time when bitcoin and altcoins will no longer have that in common. Look at this like when there is bad news for an altcoin, it affects only that coin but same for bitcoin afftects all cryptos. when people begin to accept every crytpo as independent, this thing will stop

I think every altcoin needs Bitcoin in order for them to move. Altcoins means an alternative coin to Bitcoin.

That's completely impossible to happen from my understanding about cryptocurrency, because each and every cryptocurrency getting into usage has got some dependence over bitcoin directly or through the real time usage. This causes the altcoins to grow when bitcoin grow and decline when bitcoin falls.

Bitcoin is the primary entryway for the cash get into the crypto world.

Additionally altcoins are seen a much higher hazard speculation than Bitcoin.

So with not very many exemptions (which as a rule are brief pumps), the alts become after a Bitcoin recuperation period.

Obviously, it's not a 100% certain govern, but rather there were to a great degree few cases the market didn't take after this example.

To start investing in altcoins, you must have bitcoin anyway. In addition, in unpredictable, difficult periods for the crypto market, bitcoin becomes a certain refuge.
Therefore, we observe such dependence.

I think that this is impossible, the market is cyclical, traders inflate the bubble, inflate the prices for altcoyins, sell them and immediately invest in bitcoin.

No it isn't a possible scenario since bitcoin is the welcome mat for all alts to get hype on the market. If bitcoin is healthy on it's value expect most alts will do the same as what happens on last year that most alt increased rapidly too similar to bitcoin but as of now as we enter a bearish market it will take time before it will recover. But I advise all don't believe on all the FUDs, it's better to hold and invest rather than doubting and get's nothing.

The price of BTC in April the last 7 years and present 📈

April 2011:  $1
April 2012:  $5
April 2013:  $133
April 2014:  $420
April 2015:  $243
April 2016:  $400
April 2017:  $1170
April 2018:  $6900

Altcoins have their own uses. Basically most of them are just shitcoins but some of them have a strong build project to back them up. Still the demand and supply thing applies here for the movement of the price for a certain altcoin.

For me I don’t think it is possible for Altcoins to move without Bitcoin. Because as I’ve mentioned before, the rest of these cryptocurrencies won’t be here if it is not for Bitcoin. I know it may sound so selfish to be loyal to Bitcoin but I know some of you must’ve agreed on this at some point. That’s why Altcoins in my opinion rely on Bitcoin, it may not be all the time but on most days though.

No, and they are to blame for it, because they take the BTC model and try to just collect money on it. Very few Alts bear real value in the market.

The possibility of this for me is kinda relatively low. Looking at the recent market up and down movement, It has always be Btc instructing all others in what their prices will look like.

I like this record of Bitcoin prices each year because it really shows the overall growth while also showing that there is volatility. The crash that happened at the beginning of 2014 had a huge impact on the price until 2017 when it finally recovered.

I do think we can see many altcoins outperform Bitcoin, but I think the health of Bitcoin will be a litmus test for all cryptocurrencies.

As i saw almost always altcoins grow and go down in the same way as BTC does. There are some exceptions of that rule, but we can ignore them as they happen not so often.