Bitcoin Forum

I have a really great idea. I think it is the greatest idea since the start of economy of mankind and absolutely genius.
It is the idea of my life and therefore I did not share it yet.

I want to make sure we (that means all people that will be involved in the project) will not just successfully start with the idea, but will persist as the leading platform. You can bet your blood that there will be people who will copy our service. We might want to patent the idea, but I do not believe in patents. We just have to be the original one. Such patents are against the OpenSource spirit as well, so I do not like them. If you think we should patent it or protect it otherwise, I would agree but I do not want to do the bureaucratic stuff. I do not even believe in statism, but this is a different topic.

Bitcoins allows us a mostly open structure. User accounts will be funded with Bitcoins and Bitcoins will be used for payments/purchases/investments/however you call it and for payouts. So we do not have any trouble with identifying or verifying our users. We might not even require an email address for the user account, only the Bitcoin address and a password. All AML stuff and other legal stuff is managed by the Bitcoins exchangers and we do not have to care about as we would need to if we were running the service with other currencies which are controlled by the banks.

Ok, before I can tell the idea in detail we need to have a working team which will stay together until the project is ready to go online and will be part of the staff when the site is running.

As I need to check out all people in some way building the team could take some time. I think the easiest way would be that everyone signs a disclaimer to not tell anyone about the idea and "forget" it when he or she will not longer participate in the development.

It will be a large project and we will need any skills you can find in the web:
- web developers with beginner to expert skills in JavaScript and common libraries, HTML, maybe PHP - I thought about using node.js for the server side too
- graphic designers who are skilled in Gimp and/or Photoshop, maybe CSS and HTML too
- people who can create awesome promotion videos for youtube and so on, maybe skilled in Adobe After Effects
- writers for some good text pages and translators and other (advanced to) experts for their particular language, when you hear the idea you will know why
- cloud experienced people for the case we need to expand the project when it is successful. Maybe we need to respect this already in the basic design. I have a lack of knowhow here.
- security experts for the website itself and to harden the bitcoin wallet(s) which are about to be stored on the server


Basic requirements:
- a shared wallet like explained below
- an easy to use user management system based on node.js and some database, can be MySQL, can be something better, but I want to have a simply ORM to it for node.js so programming the data parts are not a pain of life with writing SQL statements for each piece of information you want to get out of the database
- a development (webserver) environment - I think I can provide this, maybe on a small VPS
- maybe we should use git from the beginning so we can track any process, etc.
- node.js bindings to some bitcoin api/server - we will need to create a lot of new addresses
  - might need fast transactions - I am not sure yet if we can use inputs.io or something for it, might be the easiest solution but as it was recently hacked I would
    not prefer it


And I thought about making it multilingual from the beginning, so we are international and will be the first in most languages.
Therefore we will need translators, but with our open structure this will be easy. It will not be fully opensource at all, so the disclaimer should make clear that nobody is allowed to get something from the source to make a similar project. I think this will already be excluded by "do not tell anyone about the idea".


Funding:
We need a sort of a shared wallet. I do not know if something like this exists.
If not, we need to develop it first.
A shared wallet would mean that everyone can deposit some Bitcoins and then the wallet saves this new proportion in relation to the new balance and that everyone can withdraw his proportion again.
For example when the balance is 0.1 BTC (I think we do not need to set hard limits here, maybe same limits so the transaction fees will not be so expensive) and someone deposits 0.05 BTC this would be a proportion of 33.3% of the new balance which would be 0.15 BTC. When this person wants to get his share back and the balance raised to 1.5 BTC because we made profit this person gets out 33.3% of it: 0.4995 BTC - so about 10 times, there is a rounding error with 33.333333..., but you understand the principle. Everyone gets his or her percentual share from the balance, no matter how high it is. If the balance falls down to 0.015 BTC for some unreal reason the person would be able to withdraw 33.3% of it too: 0.004995 BTC. This is nothing new, but I did not see it for Bitcoins yet and we will require it for getting this project funded.
I welcome better ideas about the shared wallet.
And I might get some amount to start with soon, but basically we should run on low-cost. And I want to run the page on a fast server (meaning an own root server with possibility to expand in a cloud or something) in an very early stage.

The idea:
I can not tell the idea yet, because we would have to hurry the development to be the very first to start such a service after the idea would have been revealed.
All I can say about the idea is that people will be able to invest (Bitcoins) there and can make profit by buying and selling again.
I will be kinda a new market which never existed before and is all about the right time and right decisions like on the forex market for example to make profits.
So the idea is to provide a service for this. Therefore it will be a serious service, not a ponzi scheme like HYIP or something. Despite the fact that users will be
able to make high investments. I think we should offer different scales. So a scale for 1-999 mBTC, a scale for 1-99 BTC or so, a scale for satoshis or even more scales. Then people can invest (and trade) low, but very high too. But it will not be just market trading. At least not assets trading at all.
I can not get into detail yet.


I would prefer communication via TorChat during the development to add more security until we launch. I have skype and other IMs too, but I normally use textmode only and speak (write) English and German.

My TorChat id is l4buztco4f37mgl4

I am not selfish or something but as this is the idea of my life I will be the project "leader", meaning that I have the last decision.

Feel free to advertise this thread in your local forums.


Update: Please register at https://www.hostedredmine.com/account/register and tell me (better as a private message) the username or your real name so I can add you to the members list of the project management. Then you can access the first document in the project which tells about the idea in some detail (about 7 kB text).

The inevitable question ... apart from the "idea" how are you going to contribute to the realisation of the project? Have you got the money?

It is very modest and genial. I can understand your secrecy.
Is this the 2.0 version of this idea ?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283390.msg3031326#msg3031326

I will have money for this project yes.

But I am not sure if I can pay workers and I am not talking about making this project _for_ me, but I want it to be a open project. It has to be a bit secret in the beginning, sure.

And I will contribute programming and graphics and stuff too. I am going to be very active for this, well it is my idea.


LOL! No it is not :) This is a serious project.

http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2010-12.html#e2010-12-01T15_45_40.htm ::)

Well. I do not need to discuss with people who are not interested.

And this project will need more than just one programmer. ;)

You talked a lot about the frontend shininess and advertising, and the non-disclosure agreement about what your business model is, and the funding approach, but didn't say anything about any kind of backend work being needed. Making a really nice Ponzi site?

TLDR Version anyone?

Or does the bottom that says, he won't tell yet about sum it up?

Oh, did you read the basic requirements section?

The first work to be done is to make a choice on the right framework or library that allows us to connect node.js to a database (which can be MySQL or can be something that fits better to node.js) and then a library for having a user management using node.js and that database and which could use the bitcoin address as username. If nothing like this already exists it would be the first piece to be developed.

No. It is not going to be a ponzi scheme site. There will be real trading among the users and maybe the server.

She will tell to a group who wants to realize this project.

To the group, that still doesn't realize wtf the idea is?

I'm definitely interested. I can contribute to the visual side of things.

Also have you been to https://just-dice.com (https://just-dice.com)? On their page they have the option to 'invest' and it is basically what you would call a shared wallet. People choose to add Bitcoins to the wallet and depending on their share size and the amount of their deposit, stand to either gain or lose funds. I think something like this would work very well for this project.

Very good. I would like to see some of your work.


Yes this is kinda what I thought about with "shared wallet", but we can not use that one for this project. It will be a source of inspiration.

How did you reach the design choice "node.js"? Why not rails, django, play or anything different? What do you see in node? I'm always interested in working on cool projects that bring new things to the world but I wouldn't want to without knowing anything. The basics you described can be easily implemented in any programming language however what is the goal?

So you want something that :
- is like opensource but is not open.
- you don't think should be patented or protected but requires signing a disclaimer.

Maybe it will be a free service but people will have to pay for it? :)


This is a really bad sign. If the idea of your life can be easily copied just by someone hearing about it, it WILL be copied.
This means you don't have ANY competitive advantage. And "being first" could give you some remote possibility of an advantage only if: you lockdown the market (patent worldwide and enforce it), limit resources (control all available related resources) or create a lock-in effect (changing services later is costly).

A related research (Copycats from Oded Shenkar) shows that those that copy an original "innovation" usually end up with 98% of the value (~2% to the "first mover"). And also can do it with an investment 30%-40% lower.
The same is not true with opensource movements that are able to generate momentum.

So if this is really such a great idea... I'll wait until it's live! :)

The main reason is because node.js is non-blocking and I had very good experience with node.js applications. Others may be non-blocking too. But a node.js http server is very lightweight too. It only takes a few lines to create a basic server.

I think everything could be made in every language.

But as node.js is JavaScript it can be programmed more easily than having to know ruby, python or other languages.

I have thought about doing it in Java (play would be a useable framework), but then I decided it would be better to not have a Java VM running which always takes some more ressources than others which would not be the problem with a good root server. Basing on JavaScript instead of Ruby, Java, Python or PHP (most people know PHP but it becomes insecure very fast when you are not an expert) allows more people to help programming, I guess.

It can not be open for now as you said it would be copied before it is even finished. Parts of the software could be opensourced later.
I am more talking about an open structure, so not like "I am the boss" and others are my workers. The more people get involved the more known the idea gets. I see that there might be forks or parallel developments then.

You are right that a lot of second versions of an idea do some things better. We will improve too later and might create a third version then. That is ok.

I do not believe in an economy that destroys others at all. Services has to serve the people and can exist by each other. I do not believe in competition at all.

They will invest. Maybe the service should charge a low fee at some point.

The disclaimer is for this phase.

I do not want to patent it because I do not believe in this system with patent laws and shit.



No. It is a really good sign! :D

Any idea that can be copied will be copied. By Keeping it a secret your convincing me its a ponzi scheme or worst, it uses windows servers in the backend. No thanks you , Sir !

LOL. No it will use linux servers.

Yes you are right that any idea that can be copied will be copied. This one will copied, especially when it works well.

Ok I need to make a closed/private group and invite interested people in it and there I will get in detail. Maybe you just say "oh this is the worst idea ever" or you see how genius it is. It is based on how I see things, therefore it is unique and that is why I call it the idea of my life.
I think most people if not all have such a "idea of life" or more, but a lot do not manage to turn it into reality.
Again I should underline that I am not making it for profit, but it could become very profitable. There is potential because most people do not see the world like I do and are in a non-awareness box about what is obvious for me. I think most will be stunned about the idea. At least when they fully understand it.

I am looking for some webpage to create such a group.

I have an idea to share with you.
Let us exchange some shares in our projects.
I will tell you my idea and you get 100 years of free mind hosting in the blockchain and you tell me your idea and give me 10% share.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291020.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291020.0)

Since you supposedly can program, how about programming your actual real what it does part yourself and worry about all the marketing and distracting images and fonts and window dressing and wallpaper stuff later? If your fundamental concept is actually good and useful you will get a dedicated core group of users who find it indispensible enough that they won't care that it is ugly as sin and extremely hard to use and full of bugs because they need it now and/or they see its potential.

So far it sounds like you don't even have the skills to operate a simple "have and manage users" membership site so seem to think such things do not exist so need to be created from scratch just for you; other than not being able to operate any existing membership site or adapt one all you are about seems to be flim flam window-dressing marketing no actual underlying core algortihms or data processing or even business model or business process at all...

So it sounds like yet another "if you get them to come it will somehow then be possible to build it" idea-person bullshit.

-MarkM-

I am just giving the change to participate from day one on and I listed what will be needed as far as a can imagine or know. For sure the packaging and fluffy stuff comes at the end.


No. It is not. I just mentioned what needs to be done first. You are right things need to be done from scratch. It did not write any line of code yet, because I will not be able to create this project alone and by myself. It is going to be too big.

All interested users, please register at https://www.hostedredmine.com/account/register and tell me (better as a private message) the username or your real name so I can add you to the members list of the project management. Then you can access the first document in the project which tells about the idea in some detail (about 7 kB text).

lol. Nice idea, but I do not think "mind uploading" would work at all as I think the mind is not restricted or enclosed by the brain organ. They are talking about saving the information that is stored in brain cells. This is only a part of what we call mind or consciousness. The pure information of what was in this part of the mind would not be very functional without "us", the spirit of that mind information. Sure, we might be able to copy some information that are stored in the brain cells, but I can not call this mind.

Well.. no further reactions so far? I should enjoy the sun today but the idea is not getting out of my head.

Then code it. Once people see working code maybe they will believe you are not just another bullshit pie in the sky idea-person/marketer trying to get other people to work for free on some crazy crap idea you think is so great.

-MarkM-

Or at least share it (no, I'm not going to sign up somewhere just to read something about it that might or might not be comprehensive...) so people can tell you if it exists already.

You wanted for example this kind of "shared wallet" thingie from the OP - this would have even possible with shares from GLBSE 1.0, which was released in 2011. Right now there are several unregulated stock exchanges denominated in BTC that also offer this possibility and a few decentralized options too to do this (Colored coins, Mastercoins probably soonish, OpenTransactions, Ripple...). The fact that you didn't know about them or at least didn't mention why these are not an option to you seems to me like you don't know your way around bitcoinland that much.

Tl;dr: Show me the money or lurk moar!

I have published the idea.

Well you have to sign up for project management too, the idea explanation is the first document there.

I did and do not think that these existing solutions are fitable to have such a shared wallet.

I am still searching more people and got positive feedback about the idea details so far.

One of them is developing a first version or draft.

I can not be in this every day, but I feel this will be a very good project.

Can you PM the idea to me? I'm interested

I have it as a document on hostedredmine (see post). It is too long for a private message, I think.

Nothing new here?

I got in contact with a user that answered to this thread and we started some projects. Then he literally f...cked me, leaving me loosing yet again and I wasted too much time with him, well I got more smart than before again. So I am back to my idea. But if nobody reacts on this anymore I will take it back to the underground and will develop it to a later point.

Whether you know it or not you just described a ponzi scheme, but I don't think that is what you intended. Actually, I know exactly what you were trying to convey and you are right it is best kept to yourself. I had an idea last night similar to your's and I am still not sure that it is not a ponzi scheme.

Ponzi schemes are quite well defined (paying interest/profit from user deposits) - shouldn't be too hard to identify.

You maybe mean that you are potentially acting fraudulent or negligent towards your users or risk running fractional reserve. This by itself is not a Ponzi scheme.

The contact from this thread wasn't me by the way, sad to hear it worked out that way.

Yes and therefore it is not a ponzi scheme.

And it is not meant to be against the users in any sense.



Yes it was not you. Haha the point is. He complained about that several coders left him before. Now I know why. OMG. He was nice at first and I was about to create a serious project with him, but then he started to tell me how I have to be. What the hell.. ok that is why the other coders left him too.


Yes. And if I really described a ponzi scheme, I did not describe my idea correctly.

I am willing to learn to code, and like I said from what I understand our ideas are similar. At the very least I could do promotion marketing graphic design etc...

Please try to describe your idea. Maybe via PM