Bitcoin Forum

Have you guys heard?
Goldman Sachs will be doing futures instead of a proper bitcoin desk, which makes me sick to my stomach.
These people are doing everything they can to sink the great Bitcoin game, but they will fail because nothing can stand in the way of progress.
https://www.coindesk.com/goldman-sachs-to-begin-bitcoin-futures-trading-within-weeks/
Goldman executive Rana Yared said the decision resulted from a growing number of inquiries from clients that indicated interest in holding bitcoin as an alternative asset.

"It resonates with us when a client says, 'I want to hold bitcoin or bitcoin futures because I think it is an alternate store of value,'" she told the Times.
AAAAAAND what do they choose? Friggin Futures of course.

problem is that goldman sachs is a private banking cartel that secretly rules with other banks the entire united states, this is a huge issue and we need to free the people from it.

Once these institutions start controlling price of bitcoin the market will be dominated by them.

This is the sole purpose of bitcoin, free people from cartels and institutions. We give them money to keep our money, and they control the market, making money out of thin air. I mean everyone is free to make money from their own money, but this is too much.

unfortunately, if you think that no one can stop the progress, then you are very wrong))) ;D

on the one hand, that will probably cause the price increase for bitcoin due to speculation, but on the other hand it would be really nice to see the banks like this out of bitcoin. They represent everything namakomoto was trying to ged rid of.

I could not agree more. Nakamato was trying to get rid of our dependency from the darn banks. I am hoping we will accomplish that in our lifetime.

This futures has really made bitcoin price down.  I think futures is not a good idea for the future of crypto currencies.  That's my own thought though.

they're starting with futures, but I'm pretty confident they will add also regular bitcoin investments for their clients. They will do anything that brings the profits to the company, so bitcoin it is

Big banks and other institutions have no opportunity to work with cryptocurrencies because of the lack of regulation. Though there exists the a clear legal description of derivatives, what includes futures as well. Because futures have to correspond to the asset's price whatever the asset means to be, it's more easier to set up a market for bitcoin futures trading, than to initially the bitcoin as an asset.

Watch, other bank are looking for opportunities to implement crypto trading in their business models, and they will do their best to check every possible approach to make higher profits on cryptocurrency hype.

maybe they felt that they may not have a good chance competing with the current existing exchanges such as Coinbase and Gemeni which if i am not mistaken both are in US already and they are both big enough.
additionally they may have feared all the headaches of possible regulations for exchanges.

It's true that Goldman Sachs has decided to start bitcoin futures instead of trading into raw bitcoin but there are few reasons behind it.

The main reason is the legality of bitcoin and cryptocurrency in US. The legal areas are still unclear and the US government is playing a double standard game using their enforcement agencies. So dealing in real bitcoin can get them into a legal mess. That is the reason why they have chosen future derivatives. Where their clients will be benefitted from the price fluctuations of bitcoin but no actual bitcoins will be traded or handed over in that process. Laws will be maintained and the end goal will be achieved.

whether we like it or not, it is happening this way. the real question that we should be asking is how this is going to influence the market in short term. in long term nobody cares about what these dudes do about bitcoin, in the end bitcoin is THE decentralized currency of our time and will continue to appreciate over time.
but in short term we can't rule out the speculation. last futures trading created a couple of panic moments and led to some drops. it stopped after a while and people stopped even caring about them but this may reignite the same FUD again.

GSA is one of the most filthy, scummiest greed Cadres in the universe. Those people would kill their own Mothers for a few more Dollars. They are involving in futures for two reason. 1 They can charge large fees for futures transactions. 2 Futurs markets can be manipulated and stolen from rather easily by large financial institutions.....read "thieves" I know...I used to work there. GSA is actually WORSE than most people think or realize.

We cannot blame them if they invested on bitcoin futures and not on the bitcoin desk. There is nothing to be sad about people who are into bitcoin futures. It may be bitcoin on the exchanges or bitcoin futures all of them are bitcoins and as long people are into bitcoin either of the two platforms will do. As long as people are buying bitcoin be it be in futures or on bitcoin desk it is still a good thing.

Nothing Goldman Sachs does is a "good thing". Well except of course it's a "good thing" for Goldman Sachs and their massive bonuses, paid with stolen funds. If Goldman is doing it, a LOT of people are getting hurt for their benefit. You literally cannot have a single trace of a soul to work at this place. It's Satan's investment bank.

why do you say that? not so long ago when others started talking about Bitcoin Futures (like GME, NASDAQ,...) everyone was excited and were saying they are helping bitcoin grow. in fact price went from $10k to $20k mainly because of this reason.
so why are you saying this new Bitcoin Futures is created to "sink bitcoin" now? what changed?

Goldman Sachs do not want to get their hands dirty and Bitcoin futures are the cheapest point of entry to Bitcoin, without having to buy a single Bitcoin. They also want a financial instrument that they can control, so they chose the tool that they are familiar with.

Do not expect the Banks to take the first move towards building a instrument that would benefit the Bitcoin community, because they will rather create a instrument that would be used to short it or to sabotage it in some way.  >:(

You are correct in saying that they do not want to get their hands dirty and they want to work with what they know. However, "derivatives" are not the real product and it seems that these institutions are making money on gambling rather than production. They are not producing anything, but simply taking advantage of others. If it is legal, it is fine but people buying futures should be aware that they are sinking the ship they are on. Anyone is free to short anything but if you are doing it to manipulate the market then I consider that unethical.

This is a classic example of the naivete that exists within the general community about how the "traditional" trading community operates. The run up you saw in the underlying asset was a methodical and deliberate accumulation of the asset with the knowledge that there was no resistance to be created from the short side due to no vehicles to implement those restrictive short positions.This leads to a euphoric wave within the general public who then buy and tend to get in at the top. Hedge-funds and Institutional traders accumulated massive long positions in the underlying knowing that once futures and options became "live", they could begin to hammer the price with "lock down sales"in those vehicles. . Keep in mind this was the first time in BTC history where a participant could actively "short" the market. Much like the Japanese Stock market in the 80's, the upward trajectory of price was FALSE as there was no vehicle to resist it.  During the run up from $6,000 to $19,000 NOTHING fundamentally changed in BTC. Not usage, not technology.....NOTHING. In short, you uninformed naive BTC enthusiasts got set up like bowling pins by the likes of GSA, JPM, GCM, HSBC, Tudor Investments, and on and on. Just like they've done time and time again throughout history. BTC was an EXTREMELY easy target due to the lack of any sophistication in the user community. It was "taking candy from a baby". It still is. By the way futures are NOT derivative products. So much bad information and ignorance. How do i know these things? I spent 30 years in the belly of this beast. Watching this bullshit day in and day out. You poor bastards don't even begin to realize the level of deviance and dysfunction in this crowd. So go ahead....keep posting your high minded drivel and pretend you know what you're talking about. The wolves are at the door and you don't have a lock on it.

But it is also a boon for traditional financial institutions such as Goldman sachs to enter the cryptocurrency market.
Because more and more financial attention to the market means more money flowing into the market.

So, what do you suggest then? Get out of everything crypto? Short our BTC just like these "devious" wolves are doing? What?

I wish I knew. Once the corporate scum find the money river, they always shit And piss in it and wallow in it until it is so polluted and fouled by their presence that it becomes unrecognizable. The unfettered greed that is epidemic in current mankind is as incurable as Heroin addiction. We can at least know our enemy and put up resistance at any and every turn. Inevitably we’ll lose but we can at least fight. The very demons BTC was invented to combat have now fully taken control. Soon even mining will be only for the large corporations. At the very least people can stop being naive and thinking that corporations are “good” for BTC.

Here is what I believe: It is in a bear trend and it is the best time to buy more BTC. Like they said, buy when blood is running on the streets, and from the looks of the comments, we are in that time. Buy now, thank me later!
Da good will always win???

The mining aspect regardless of it getting taken over by large corporations, will get taken over by the main players at that specific time anyway, there just isn't a way to find out beforehand which of the sides is worse. In current times the competition Bitmain is facing is healthy and allows that market to become less centralized, which is something that we can only be happy with. Jihan & Co are more poison to this environment than anything else, so it will feel extra good seeing their dominance decrease in the coming years. Bitcoin made Jihan a multi billionaire and now he spits on Bitcoin like it is a slut he used and is now somewhat bored with....

I dont really care if large corporations are mining all the bitcoin, they will have to give up sometime soon because the supply is limited. In terms of transaction fees, I am pretty sure it will be solved before mining becomes unprofitable.

When institutions join the cryptocurrency, the market will be controlled by them. The influx of large amounts of funds will gain control of the market and the degree of freedom of the market will be affected. Of course, the addition of large amounts of funds will also make the market become More active. ,

Bitcoin is in a bear trend and it is the best time to buy more BTC. Like they said, buy when blood is running on the streets, and from the looks of the comments, we are in that time.

I don't like it either. I still don't think things went very well after the first futures contacts. I think they really open room for manipulation, since they can buy bitcoin to drive the price up, and then just dump to try to make it go down. This way they will be winning on the way up, since they bought low and sold high, and then they will win even further if they shorted BTC on the futures contract. A lot of people say it's not that easy, but these investors are rich as hell, and given the lack of regulation I don't see how they can't do this.

We really need ETFs and real adoption to happen. I guess we need to keep waiting for now.

while the bank plans to launch this project on a modest scale, starting with a limited set of derivative products without direct trading bitcoins, but offering contracts related to the real asset.

Goldman will act as an exchange broker for futures contracts that track the behavior of bitcoin. In other words, while the bank does not plan to create a platform for trade in crypto-currencies, it will start working with futures and non-deliverable forward products.

I think someone or some country said they planned to open up ETFs, can't remember who though. Was it a wall street firm or something? Anyone?

Keep in mind this was the first time in BTC history where a participant could actively "short" the matket.In current times the competition Bitmain is facing is healthy and allows that market to become less centralized,

It's extremely easy to short BTC with futures. Click of a button. I do it all the time to hedge my natural long positions from mining. There is nothing wrong with "two way markets". There is everything wrong with "one way markets". They are waaay more easy to manipulate. Also, you do realize that ETF's are constructed with futures and options contracts don't you??

Yes news, of course not very pleasanting . I will add, as far as I know last year 2017, this company bought the Poloniex exchange. Only I don't know why they're playing a double now. I can assume that they are playing a double game. In the media, they can say one thing, but actually do other things, buy or sell bitcoin. Don't believe the news.

I don’t think why these kind of people are just against of bitcoin and why they can’t tolerate the progress of bitcoin. Bitcoin being an asset and a very sustainable crypto currency has always proved its worth and has provided so many facilities to the needy like employment, reducing poverty but why don’t these people understand these things and why they wants to just obstructs the path of bitcoin but I believe that these little tactics will not affect the path of progress of bitcoin.

I see that you know a little bit about this. What do you suggest, what is your solution? Here is my original post:
Goldman Sachs will be doing futures instead of a proper bitcoin desk, which makes me sick to my stomach.
These people are doing everything they can to sink the great Bitcoin game, but they will fail because nothing can stand in the way of progress.
https://www.coindesk.com/goldman-sachs-to-begin-bitcoin-futures-trading-within-weeks/
Goldman executive Rana Yared said the decision resulted from a growing number of inquiries from clients that indicated interest in holding bitcoin as an alternative asset.

"It resonates with us when a client says, 'I want to hold bitcoin or bitcoin futures because I think it is an alternate store of value,'" she told the Times.
AAAAAAND what do they choose? Friggin Futures of course.

Places like GSA and JP Morgan Chase et al, are only interested in one thing. Stealing money. They have no idea how to make it legitimately. They always need an inside edge or inside game. GSA will use BTC Futures and Options the same way they use ALL derivatives or secondary market products. They have a trading desk with a bunch of douche bag monkeys working on it. They call themselves "Traders", but they are the furthest thing from it. They're just lowlife halfwit dumb asses that blew the right boss to get the job on the desk.  It s their job to show their "customers" Bids and Asks outside of the current markets available to the trading desk. If You sell BTC in you GSA Futures account, you will sell it them at a worse price than they can sell it. EG; you sell one BTC contract through them at $6,499.00. They then turn around and sell it on their inside market at $6,505.00. Instant profit, NO RISK....AND they charge your account a huge fucking commission to do it. Keep in mind that they do this on HUGE volume day in and day out. Not much anyone can do. People are stupid and they give GSA their business because they are ignorant and gullible. Futures and Options aren't the demons they are made out to be. As with all things. It's the scumbags that abuse them. Personally, I use discount brokers and do my own executions. Futures and Options bring legitimate hedging to the market place which in turn provides much needed liquidity. They are also very highly regulated. Could it be better?? Hell yes. What can't. Prior to this, your only ability to sell BTC without being long was in the "Swaps" markets which were all dark room transactions only utilized by huge players and Investment banks. This provides MUCH greater visibility than that scene.

Goldman Sachs sees bitcoin as a currency
"Bitcoin as Money," a proprietary study published by Goldman Sachs, argues, "Our assumption is that long-term monetary gains will be (or are slightly lower) than growth of global real output. "Ultimately," the mathematical algorithm should be considered as a low-yielding asset, like gold or some other precious metal, "Goldman Sachs expressed. Goldman suggests a hypothesis where electronic money is a currency.
As one of the oldest US banks, Goldman Sachs has been around for about 150 years. It has existed for decades before the Federal Reserve (Fed) appeared, experiencing various financial events. Goldman employees continue to run the world, occupying the most powerful offices in the government. When this bank issues a topic, the market will listen to it.

I think they will soon be partnering with a number of altcoins to improve their currency trading services and Goldman Sachs will be one of the most influential banks for Cryptoccurrency. This is a very trusting bank in Crypto and they will cooperate to develop Cryptocurrency. I think this is really a sign of Crypto's strong development.

If this is just a statement, I think it's okay. but what Goldman and his team are working for is to bring their clients to invest in bitcoins. it will have a positive impact on the market  :D

I believe ETFs should be in the game instead of futures, which is a gambling tool anyways.

I guess you don't understand that ETF's are constructed of various derivative products. Futures and Options being the lion's share of their construct. No Futures......no ETF's.

NO, it will have a positive impact on GSA's fat bottom line. The "customers" will be raped and fleeced like all GSA "customers".

Removing the depending on banks totally will not be possible in our lifetime just like you have expressed concern. Many people out there do not even know about bitcoin and there are countries banning it and making its spread difficult.

...

You can buy a real gold (or silver) coin or bar and hold it in your hand (like bitcoin) and only trust yourself.

or

You can buy an imaginary contract which says that own something you actually don't.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_certificate
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futures_contract

...

It is a crime to sell someone something that you do not own.

EDIT: Also consider that these banking institutions had been reinforcing the same message for years ... that Bitcoin is a 'ponzi' scheme with no intrinsic value or worth. Now that they have customers who are interested in owning bitcoin, they are now happy to sell them 'fake' derivative based bitcoin contracts? Seriously.  ::)

- What's Eating You?
- https://youtu.be/bAF35dekiAY

I could not say this better myself. Once they are sure that their customers are asking for the new technology, they are selling them fake derivatives.

“ imaginary contract”. LMGDAO!! Do you even read what you type? You have NO idea what you’re talking about.

I got some cheese the other day, and they said these futures thing where cheese makers purchase milk from the producers is long gone, because the number of milk producers is decreasing. It may be the same thing with bitcoin, if it gets too cheap, people will simply sell their miner computers, and the futures assholes will lose money as well.
So, I dont think they will allow that.

I hope do not let Bitcoin in its ownership dominance by Goldman Sachs because we know in is its Bank and Gold cartel all over the world.
When Bitcoin is possessed by him it may happen that his name is Monopoly.

Hope I do not get that way because I'm sure if Bitcoin like that then Bitcoin will lose its price.

Goldman Sachs will be doing futures instead of a proper bitcoin desk, I am sick and tired of hearing this. Stop with the futures and start with ETFs please.