Bitcoin Forum

Every one of those tired points has easy counters. Search the forum, dude.

How can u be a Senior Member with activity of 224 and post such bullshit?

Embarrassing.

If your board go play some video games.

Go debate Stefan Molyneux about this... He'll destroy you  ;)

Should I play some Board Games?

Harro,

Please un-noobify me I have been involved with bitcoin for 2 years and know many things about it!! THANKSSS

Actually I was wondering, what if some beneficiary of current system buys all BTC and destroys his hard drive? Wouldn't it mean that BTC is lost?

They can't currently do that as all the coins have never been made yet, but if someone theoretically did that then yes they would all be destroyed.

JohnyBigs (original poster), I understand that you've been involved with bitcoin for a long time, and perhaps you are upset by selling your coins too early.  But don't you see: you can still be an early adopter.  And with your experience, you probably have a lot to offer to help us advance this game-changing technology.  

Bitcoin gives everyone a second chance.  

Yes so easy that's why all the solutions exist in the Bitcoin ecosystem today, right? Please explain to me how your going to counter point #1, you in your boxers vs. Trillion dollar governments and world economies?

I can't even tell what point #1 _is_. Perhaps you might explain how the fact that 'big guys willing to use violence to stay in power' leads directly to 'bitcoin is doomed to fail'.

I can't even tell what point #1 _is_. Perhaps you might explain how the fact that 'big guys willing to use violence to stay in power' leads directly to 'bitcoin is doomed to fail'.

Peter I see that you cannot make any arguments against the posting, so you do the typical I can't argue with what you said, so I will attack your character.

It's the typical Bitcoiner elitist complex. There's still time for you to come back to the rest of the 99% which I thought the movement Bitcoin was about, I guess it's still the same scum 1%

If you can't understand point #1 you shouldn't even be in this thread lol, no offense, but if your serious, I don't know what to tell you.

Point #1 is the 1% will not give up their power and control to the 99% how hard is that to understand?

The excellent side benefit is that by supporting the bitcoin system, you can also make money.

Yes, early adopters who hold their coins have done well, and will possibly do very well in the future.  I don't think this is any less ethical than early innovators in technology companies making big money.  People who committed their time and capital early in the game risked more, and they deserve to benefit more.

Lastly, bitcoin already is benefitting people in the 99% (most of us here)--it will continue to benefit the 99%: even those who don't adopt it till the very end.  Bitcoin has the potential to cut-out so many middle men and friction from our economy.

This thread is a tribute to all the haters in modern history:

1.  The car is a fad.  Horses will never stop seeing use.
2.  Telephone?  that's a child's toy, it'll never become mainstreem.
3.  Television?  People will get tired of staring at a little box in their house.

Could go on forever.

+1 bro, very correct.

Nope.

He is completely wrong.

Comparing apples with oranges is not an appropriate argument.

I am not wrong at all.  OP is scared that bitcoin will fail because people in power don't like change.  My examples are ALL of huge changes that have indeed happened.  Changes in currency will eventually ahppen whether people like it or not.

How?

Your are doing a contradictory statement. People which bought BTC at the early years did not have a bigger risk when compared with the people buying today. That people had to spend less capital to buy BTC and the risk to loose the amount invested was lower than today.

How?

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?

It's easy to to state "yeah the future will save us", and 10TB HD's probably will be available cheaply in the future.

Global average internet speeds will not be up to the job though, this is supposed to be a global revolution right?  So you have to take global internet speeds into account, so...

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/07/23/akamai-average-internet-speed-up-17-year-over-year-to-finally-pass-3-mbps-while-mobile-data-traffic-doubled/#!pX4BB

The above report states that the current global average internet speed is 3.1MB, with a 12GB block chain it would take on average 31,000 seconds to download (about half a day) without doing any processing.  Lets assume for arguments sake that processing is free and done in real time :)

So you can currently download the 12GB block chain on an average internet connection in about 12 hours....cool.

The report above (and other sources) state that the year on year speed increase of the average global internet speed is about 17%, so in 5 years time average internet speeds globally will be around 7Mbps.

Lets assume that in 5 years time, BitCoin hasn't seen any growth AT ALL, and its daily use is the same as right now.  Since December 2012, the block chain has grown by around 10GB, so in 5 years time with ZERO transaction quantity growth from today, it will be 63GB.

That is 5x larger, yet average internet connection speeds have only doubled, so in 5 years time it now takes 80,000 seconds (or about a day) to download the 63GB block chain.

Of course, BitCoin is going to grow, over the past 12 months daily transaction volume is about double what it was last year, so if we take this factor into account too with growth of BitCoin at the same pace as the past 12 months, the block chain will be around 350GB in size in 5 years time.

Downloading 350GB in 5 years time on a 7Mbps connection would take 430,000 seconds, or about 5 days (without even processing it).

As we all know processing the blockchain is not a trivial task either, so the actual time for a general new user that wants to use the QT client or run a full node is looking at 2 weeks minimum to get up and running in 5 years time.

They could of course download a copy of the blockchain "pre-processed", but even then that is still 5 days waiting for a download to complete.

So a proposed solution is to sell hard drives with the block chain on?  Seriously??  :D

Can I buy these hard drives with Bit....oh wait.....

And what if someone doesn't want to use a light client that relies on 3rd party nodes?  Doesn't that then become semi centralized and defeats the purpose?

That's cure of course the user in denial, will point out Hard Drives will keep up!!! Even if they do keep up, nobody is going to spend hundreds of dollars just to run the blockchain.

Secondly, Bitcoin is still dead even if hard drives surpass it by 100000 times in capacity, for all the other reasons above.

Bitcoin can barley process 100K transactions, it starts slowing down haha. Good luck transacting millions a day.

As stated before even if it can fix all these problems governments will regulate it and make it useless. Yes compare bitcoins a digital currency to cars a something completely new, or TV's. It's going to be fun watching your hopes get shattered, having Bitcoin in such a high realm.

Bitcoin is basically a decentralized payment system, it's not revolutionary but evolutionary.

Again 5 years later 100K transactions a day, and 3M users Bitcoin is already dead, no help needed. For Bitcoin to succeed it needs to overcome all of the issues in the OP, not just 1 or two hand picked ones.

Sorry to have offend thee o Apple fanboys, reality hurts, literally it's a scary world out there, don't leave the comforts of your computerz, or real life will punish you. Like when you tell a normal real person about Bitcoin and they laugh in your face, or you waste an hour explaining to them how it works and they still don't use it.

But it's ok you always have your safe base here at Bitcointalk where apparently Bitcoin everybody wants to use Bitcoin and it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

The beauty of it is, instead of you doing something about the issues outlined above like, getting a petition together and sending it to the Bitcoin foundation, you just deny everything.

Again 3M users in 5 years thats a whole .0005% of the whole worlds population, it's MAINSTREAM!

My god, so much babbling and so much stupid.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Go back and research some basics, you are way off.

Yes i researched and Bitcoin is .0005% of the worlds population, retard much? Everything I have mentioned in the OP are well known documented issues, again retard much? Maybe you should research mental retardation hopefully a picture of you doesn't pop up and you can get the help you deserve.

Things you have mentioned in your OP have already been discussed a million times over, the fact you are trying to say BTC is doomed with the already proven to be wrong "facts" in your OP is just insane.

Maybe learn to Google or use the search forum instead of making yourself look like a moron.

Whats funny is your the one that looks like a moron denying the things everyone knows about bitcoin lmao.

Look, BTC is a framework, and when mass adoption comes, it will be hidden beneath a layer of fluff known as "consumer clients". And with more more than $10 billion invested in the currency, people will not just let it disappear all of a sudden.

And as for transactions, it will be possible to have instantaneous transactions between wallets on the same provider. While this may lead to a monopoloy, it will solve the problem of long durations of confirmation time. Read http://bitcoinmagazine.com/5474/solving-the-slow-inperson-transaction-problem/ (http://bitcoinmagazine.com/5474/solving-the-slow-inperson-transaction-problem/)

Inter,

Pretending it's not there does not make it so. A tip for real life when you go out there one day.

Everything he wrote stand on its own. Problem is that assumption is that Bitcoin wont change in time, which is kinda flawed. I think that Bitcoin has ability to addept and survive and get much stronger than it is today.

Why is it bullshit? Because it attacks your precious feeble coin? Does the truth hurt you? Does it make you cry?

hes speaking the truth but its a foreign language to yall

"Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this. "

Yeahh... no. LOL

He then assumes all the pools are united and double spending.. but this cannot even happen without someone noticing.. Like holy shit the OP is just BEYOND stupid.

It's cute how you make yourself look retarded lmao.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130764.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152348.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327767.0

Embarrassing. Ban OP.

/thread

When will you actually learn to read and properly research something?  ::)

DISCLAIMER: The following post shows the risk with accepting bitcoin transactions with no confirmations. This could not have been done if the transaction had a confirmation.

I never mentioned about confirmations, just mentioned that they have occured, since everybody on here always says ohhhh just accept 0 confirmations for instant payments.

Don't worry though it's only a matter of time before a confirmed double spend occurs, and even then there are a dozen other issues that will cause Bitcoin to fail.

Those are all real problems but most are relatively easy to fix... The real reason that bitcoin is doomed to fail is that it is not currency. The fatal flaw with bitcoin is that it is not definable and has a fixed supply.

1 unit of currency = 1 joule of work!!!   

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No.

Double Spends

Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.

Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.

If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit

Un-Scalable

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

51% Attacks

51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.

Unstable Exchange Rate

It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation.

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

blah blah blah blah Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? blah blah

Why is every popular post on this forum about Bitcoin failing? Why does anyone respond to these posters? Isn't it a better idea to just let them sink to the bottom of the cesspool and focus on more positive things?

Like more bitcoiners donning pink tutus.  ;D

Like more bitcoiners donning pink tutus.  ;D

Yes i researched and Bitcoin is .0005% of the worlds population, retard much? Everything I have mentioned in the OP are well known documented issues, again retard much? Maybe you should research mental retardation hopefully a picture of you doesn't pop up and you can get the help you deserve.

While your* at it, maybe you can learn better grammar so you don't give yourself away being from a shit 3rd world country, with malnutrition, causing you to fail at grasping simple concepts and ideas.

Do Gavin Anderson et al really have that much control over BTC and the network?

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Almost never, and even when they did “win” it was basically the 1% handing off power to another form, and still running it behind the scenes just to appease the people.

Even if they allowed Bitcoin to become successful, they will regulate it so heavily, that it will pretty  much lose any “benefits” that it had, (Europe is preparing to tax and regulate Bitcoin) and pretty much becomes centralized and just like anything else.

The current system will stay in power with centralized control, hence why they will create their own digital fiat currencies replacing their paper, to even gain more control.

2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT

Basically the “official” releases come from the Bitcoin Foundation. The development is pretty much centralized. Even if people fix everything wrong with Bitcoin, the foundation makes the final decision on what to include in it's next version on it's own priorities. This is basically all run by “Gavin” who caused Satoshi to disappear after he decided to meet with the CIA. The same guy who has not addressed any of the issues going to be discussed below for the whole time he has been in control. Whether by accident or on purpose is not the point. The point is the main trusted Bitcoin client is controlled by one entity, and everything they say, do, or don't do goes.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?

Double Spends

Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.

Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.

Slow Speed

Waiting for a transaction to fully confirm, is not feasible for day to day transactions. Yes let's hear the Credit Cards take 180 day confirms. One no they don't they confirm instantly, the money is just on hold for 90-180 days if the merchant sells a crappy product and refuses to honor warranty or remedy the issue. If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit. Secondly, most important the buyer pays and gets his goods immediately, unlike Bitcoin where they have to wait for a few confirmations to be sure.

Un-Scalable

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

51% Attacks

51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.

Unstable Exchange Rate

It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation.

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

With everything mentioned above it shows that Bitcoin has no real advantage over fiat for 99% of the people in the world. You can't pay your bills or general living expenses in it, can't buy much with it. It's slow, not consumer friendly, as once a payment is sent there is no charge back method. Guess what 90% of the world are consumers not merchants. If Bitcoin doesn't appeal to the regular consumer who buys goods from merchants it will never succeed. Even if it succeeds it's doomed by it's very architecture which can't handle the success.

The only use it has, is sending small internationally pretty quickly, which then again gets converted to fiat for people to actually use. What market is there for small international payments 5-10% of the world?

No entity would trust high sums of money to be transferred with Bitcoin with all of it's flaws. Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? Bitcoin has about 3 million users in a 5 year period. Facebook in that same time had what? 600M-1 Billion users.

Not to mention by the time, I have opened 10 accounts just to buy and convert Bitcoin, I could have swiped my credit/debit card 1000 times.

5. CONCLUSION

Even if Bitcoin or another crypto currency fixes all of these issues, they are still doomed to fail because of reason #1.

With zero advantages and quite a few disadvantages over fiat, centralized incompetent development, and inhert flaws Bitcoin is doomed. So next time you get excited about Bitcoin growing, and can't wait for it's mass adaption, just know it's own growth is another nail in it's coffin. Bitcoin is digging it's own grave.


Before all the geniuses on this forum come and give your wonderful flawed opinions, and say how wonderful it is, and it's going places, and I am wrong, and Gavin will fix everything, and Bitcoin will take over the world as a currency and payment system. Please refer below to get a reality check:

Bitcoin users in 5 years: 3 Million

It's funny how the OP posted a well thought out and articulate write up of bitcoin flaws, and most people here just tell him he's an idiot or dismiss him as a troll. That's a pretty strong indicator that there's a problem, and the reason I'm bearish long term.

No, it's a fake out dude. Obama's really in charge.

The fact that fiat is created out of nothing and bitcoin is finite doesnt mean anything if people with guns can force you to use one over the other.

I assume that means you do not know the answer, or cannot articulate the answer, to my question?

If Bitcoin makes the fiat worthless, and thus starves the government of funds, how will they pay the men with guns?  Government "power" is only possible because they steal money from the citizens though income taxes and inflation. They cannot inflate Bitcoin. And if they try to tax too high, people will refuse to pay, that would be much easier to do in a Bitcoin economy than it is now.

I assume that means you do not know the answer, or cannot articulate the answer, to my question?

Hi,

I read the OP with interest, considering argument #1. It is also the most important threat I see concerning BTC, and those who don't see it are blind. It doesn't mean fatality, but this power really exists.

Here is an interesting point of view about the future of money.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8JhmQ73Vq8

I'm more optimistic than OP concerning the future of BTC, but it is not my purpose in this reply, I just wonder how can you compare BTC users growth to Facebooks ? Both of them take place on the grid but IMHO the comparison stops here. Facebook is free and does not require (apparently) involvement. You sign in and you let uncle Sam doing the rest, while BTC by essence is costly, you have to pay for it, then to take care of it, and take the risk on you. Big difference isn't it ? 

drgyoza

First of all Money is a means of exchange. Bitcoin has just as much value papermoney by itself. In only can attain value if it is a means of exchange.

The only thing that has real value is human labour and tangible assets.

Money is an agreed upon method of exchange to make trade easier.

You can trade in sticks or toenails if you want to.

A government can force you by law and under threat of violence and jailtime to trade in whatever they want you to trade it.

Bitcoin cant make fiat worthless. If a state imposed laws that restrict trade to a certain currency that it controls there is nothing you can do about it.

How are you going to to use bitcoin if government has imposed laws that restrict coorporations to trade in bitcoin?

Also inflation itself is not a bad thing, its an incentive for people to spend money and create economic prosperity.

What you see now is just a wealth transfer where insane amount of money are created by an elite and distributed and kept by a small number of the population.

If that money where to be seen increased wages inflation would be great.

This thread is a tribute to all the haters in modern history:

1.  The car is a fad.  Horses will never stop seeing use.
2.  Telephone?  that's a child's toy, it'll never become mainstreem.
3.  Television?  People will get tired of staring at a little box in their house.

Could go on forever.

Automobiles will start to decline almost as soon as the last shot is fired in World War II. The name of Igor Sikorsky will be as well known as Henry Ford's, for his helicopter will all but replace the horseless carriage as the new means of popular transportation. Instead of a car in every garage, there will be a helicopter.... These 'copters' will be so safe and will cost so little to produce that small models will be made for teenage youngsters. These tiny 'copters, when school lets out, will fill the sky as the bicycles of our youth filled the prewar roads.

-Harry Bruno, aviation publicist, 1943.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Almost never, and even when they did “win” it was basically the 1% handing off power to another form, and still running it behind the scenes just to appease the people.

Even if they allowed Bitcoin to become successful, they will regulate it so heavily, that it will pretty  much lose any “benefits” that it had, (Europe is preparing to tax and regulate Bitcoin) and pretty much becomes centralized and just like anything else.

The current system will stay in power with centralized control, hence why they will create their own digital fiat currencies replacing their paper, to even gain more control.

Let's be optimistic.  Let's say a distributed ledger like Bitcoin allows for a true global democracy and a way to usurp our current corruption!  Underdog story to end all underdog stories.

2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT

Basically the “official” releases come from the Bitcoin Foundation. The development is pretty much centralized. Even if people fix everything wrong with Bitcoin, the foundation makes the final decision on what to include in it's next version on it's own priorities. This is basically all run by “Gavin” who caused Satoshi to disappear after he decided to meet with the CIA. The same guy who has not addressed any of the issues going to be discussed below for the whole time he has been in control. Whether by accident or on purpose is not the point. The point is the main trusted Bitcoin client is controlled by one entity, and everything they say, do, or don't do goes.

Let's not get all paranoid.  Open source fork and pull...of course somebody's gotta do some work on it.  Gavin et al are astute and have Bitcoin's best interest at heart.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?

Your breakdown is flawed.  And also the "average" person doesn't run a full node.  If any pruning has to take place, it's not going to centralize Bitcoin.


Double Spends

Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.

Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.

This doesn't have potential to be an endemic problem.

Slow Speed

Waiting for a transaction to fully confirm, is not feasible for day to day transactions. Yes let's hear the Credit Cards take 180 day confirms. One no they don't they confirm instantly, the money is just on hold for 90-180 days if the merchant sells a crappy product and refuses to honor warranty or remedy the issue. If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit. Secondly, most important the buyer pays and gets his goods immediately, unlike Bitcoin where they have to wait for a few confirmations to be sure.

Built-in escrow.  Insurance services.


Un-Scalable

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

What exactly do you mean?  Are you talking about the blocksize?

51% Attacks

51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.

Why would they want to destroy Bitcoin?

Unstable Exchange Rate

It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation.

Come one man, really?  It will eventually stabilize and you won't need to think about it in terms of Dollars

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

With everything mentioned above it shows that Bitcoin has no real advantage over fiat for 99% of the people in the world. You can't pay your bills or general living expenses in it, can't buy much with it. It's slow, not consumer friendly, as once a payment is sent there is no charge back method. Guess what 90% of the world are consumers not merchants. If Bitcoin doesn't appeal to the regular consumer who buys goods from merchants it will never succeed. Even if it succeeds it's doomed by it's very architecture which can't handle the success.

The only use it has, is sending small internationally pretty quickly, which then again gets converted to fiat for people to actually use. What market is there for small international payments 5-10% of the world?

No entity would trust high sums of money to be transferred with Bitcoin with all of it's flaws. Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? Bitcoin has about 3 million users in a 5 year period. Facebook in that same time had what? 600M-1 Billion users.

Not to mention by the time, I have opened 10 accounts just to buy and convert Bitcoin, I could have swiped my credit/debit card 1000 times.

These arguments are so near-sighted.   Can you just give it a few years?

5. CONCLUSION

Even if Bitcoin or another crypto currency fixes all of these issues, they are still doomed to fail because of reason #1. Let's please remember that Bitcoin is Constitutionally-protected.  It's a commodity exchange mechanism based on a decentralized proof of work public ledger.  We have as much right as anyone to make private market.  What if people didn't preclude even more egregious violations of our civil rights?

With zero advantages and quite a few disadvantages over fiat, centralized incompetent development, and inhert flaws Bitcoin is doomed. So next time you get excited about Bitcoin growing, and can't wait for it's mass adaption, just know it's own growth is another nail in it's coffin. Bitcoin is digging it's own grave.


Before all the geniuses on this forum come and give your wonderful flawed opinions, and say how wonderful it is, and it's going places, and I am wrong, and Gavin will fix everything, and Bitcoin will take over the world as a currency and payment system. Please refer below to get a reality check:

Bitcoin users in 5 years: 3 Million

It's still new bud

How can u be a Senior Member with activity of 224 and post such bullshit?

Embarrassing.

Unless small people get an incentive to exchange fiat int btc and spend it on something they want bitcoin is going nowhere.

Think of it as shares of a great payment system.
Only right now you have HUGE shareholders holding like 70-80% that are not using their own service. Speculators made them rich But speculators are not using it to buy anything as well.
Whales could get bored and decide to cash in their huge gains and retire.
That would bring the marked down and introduce a huge drop that would cause millions of small time, real bitcoin user to loose their purchasing power and loose the trust into the payment system for good.

Speculators are betting on market but they are a huge factor as well in this.

The thing is we don't need huge market cap to make bitcoin work. We just need to make it circulate.
If the market cap i HUGE in comparison to coins spend on daily goods and services. That means that hoarders could tank the market.

To bet on the fact that dollar is overvalued is OK, but don't bet on Bitcoin to skyrocket if the US government decides to invent something newer-digital to replace it to hide the fact that it is debased so much. I mean it will in USD/BTC but the purchasing power will not.

IMO it would be best if the whales dumped now. Sure value would go down, but that would be great cause there would be no more such risk of huge price drops, cause millions of merchants and small consumers would buy it cheap.

Prices would rise and merchants would have some capital gains to reinvest in incentives for buyers to buy with bitcoin.
And we would be ready to start using in in massive proportions.

Unless small people get an incentive to exchange fiat int btc and spend it on something they want bitcoin is going nowhere.

Think of it as shares of a great payment system.
Only right now you have HUGE shareholders holding like 70-80% that are not using their own service. Speculators made them rich But speculators are not using it to buy anything as well.
Whales could get bored and decide to cash in their huge gains and retire.
That would bring the marked down and introduce a huge drop that would cause millions of small time, real bitcoin user to loose their purchasing power and loose the trust into the payment system for good.

Speculators are betting on market but they are a huge factor as well in this.

The thing is we don't need huge market cap to make bitcoin work. We just need to make it circulate.
If the market cap i HUGE in comparison to coins spend on daily goods and services. That means that hoarders could tank the market.

To bet on the fact that dollar is overvalued is OK, but don't bet on Bitcoin to skyrocket if the US government decides to invent something newer-digital to replace it to hide the fact that it is debased so much. I mean it will in USD/BTC but the purchasing power will not.

IMO it would be best if the whales dumped now. Sure value would go down, but that would be great cause there would be no more such risk of huge price drops, cause millions of merchants and small consumers would buy it cheap.

Prices would rise and merchants would have some capital gains to reinvest in incentives for buyers to buy with bitcoin.
And we would be ready to start using in in massive proportions.

One flaw is your estimates of blockchain growth. The blockchain cannot grow exponentially like that. It can only grow 1 TB every 20 years!

Also, their press is positive, Apple was like it's the best thing since the wheel. Facebook was like, it's so amazing I can talk to all my friends everybody get on facebook.

Huh ??? Some of the reasons why bitcoin will fail are the very same reasons I use it.

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

If they can make homosexuality illegal in some of these countries, they can certainly make bitcoin illegal.

Yes # is the biggest one...when the USA, EU, and China, India, etc, ban the use of BTC and make it a felony, then usage will die off really quick.  If they can make homosexuality illegal in some of these countries, they can certainly make bitcoin illegal.

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Almost never, and even when they did “win” it was basically the 1% handing off power to another form, and still running it behind the scenes just to appease the people.

Even if they allowed Bitcoin to become successful, they will regulate it so heavily, that it will pretty  much lose any “benefits” that it had, (Europe is preparing to tax and regulate Bitcoin) and pretty much becomes centralized and just like anything else.

The current system will stay in power with centralized control, hence why they will create their own digital fiat currencies replacing their paper, to even gain more control.

2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT

Basically the “official” releases come from the Bitcoin Foundation. The development is pretty much centralized. Even if people fix everything wrong with Bitcoin, the foundation makes the final decision on what to include in it's next version on it's own priorities. This is basically all run by “Gavin” who caused Satoshi to disappear after he decided to meet with the CIA. The same guy who has not addressed any of the issues going to be discussed below for the whole time he has been in control. Whether by accident or on purpose is not the point. The point is the main trusted Bitcoin client is controlled by one entity, and everything they say, do, or don't do goes.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?

Double Spends

Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.

Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.

Slow Speed

Waiting for a transaction to fully confirm, is not feasible for day to day transactions. Yes let's hear the Credit Cards take 180 day confirms. One no they don't they confirm instantly, the money is just on hold for 90-180 days if the merchant sells a crappy product and refuses to honor warranty or remedy the issue. If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit. Secondly, most important the buyer pays and gets his goods immediately, unlike Bitcoin where they have to wait for a few confirmations to be sure.

Un-Scalable

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

51% Attacks

51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.

Unstable Exchange Rate

It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation.

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

With everything mentioned above it shows that Bitcoin has no real advantage over fiat for 99% of the people in the world. You can't pay your bills or general living expenses in it, can't buy much with it. It's slow, not consumer friendly, as once a payment is sent there is no charge back method. Guess what 90% of the world are consumers not merchants. If Bitcoin doesn't appeal to the regular consumer who buys goods from merchants it will never succeed. Even if it succeeds it's doomed by it's very architecture which can't handle the success.

The only use it has, is sending small internationally pretty quickly, which then again gets converted to fiat for people to actually use. What market is there for small international payments 5-10% of the world?

No entity would trust high sums of money to be transferred with Bitcoin with all of it's flaws. Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? Bitcoin has about 3 million users in a 5 year period. Facebook in that same time had what? 600M-1 Billion users.

Not to mention by the time, I have opened 10 accounts just to buy and convert Bitcoin, I could have swiped my credit/debit card 1000 times.

5. CONCLUSION

Even if Bitcoin or another crypto currency fixes all of these issues, they are still doomed to fail because of reason #1.

With zero advantages and quite a few disadvantages over fiat, centralized incompetent development, and inhert flaws Bitcoin is doomed. So next time you get excited about Bitcoin growing, and can't wait for it's mass adaption, just know it's own growth is another nail in it's coffin. Bitcoin is digging it's own grave.


Before all the geniuses on this forum come and give your wonderful flawed opinions, and say how wonderful it is, and it's going places, and I am wrong, and Gavin will fix everything, and Bitcoin will take over the world as a currency and payment system. Please refer below to get a reality check:

Bitcoin users in 5 years: 3 Million

Go debate Stefan Molyneux about this... He'll destroy you  ;)

This looks like bad news. Any chinese speakers ?
http://tech.sina.com.cn/it/2013-12-17/01139011174.shtml#483253-tsina-1-18627-1cf60a7c37a7bc296a2ba7aba0120190

It's finished for now in China.

Yup it is bad news. Finished? No.

Whats the economic incentive to use bitcoin?

What is bitcoin used for ? Its use has been mostly for drug transactions and other black market activities.

It has not been transformed into a currency that compete with the power that a state has.

The endless printing of money is the fuel they need to bribe politicians and to enslave most of humanity by providing them jobs that require them to spent most of their time at a job they hate, being controlled by a manager they don't like. The 1% easily controls pretty much everyone because when you own pretty much all corporations, you control pretty much everyone.

To make Bitcoin illegal, USA need to bomb some of their civilians again. message tv and say that terract was paid with bitcoin and we cant track who did it, that is all. thats is the way for big countries to achieve what they want..

The Government doesn't need to do anything because the real world does not give a shit about Bitcoin. They ridicule it and mock it.

bitcoin is the first of its kind and will not last forever. Some other decentralised currency will take over at some point.

Just adding a zest of drama :)

Although I don't agree 100% with all points of the original poster, I do see several valid points there.

My personal "ranking" of BTC is an open-world experiment (and it isn't even clear if this is the first Globo test balloon injected by TPTB or a true "lone wolf" development as some hope - for now due to timing I do tend towards the first option, call me a sceptical guy in terms of "that fundamental change just happened by chance in the international financial world" ; I just don't buy that after working out the typical qui bono question).

Apart from all issues which may or may not get fixed or future developments...
Everywhere I looked in terms of BTC, greed and scams are literally everywhere. They just seem to vary in intensity.
Almost feels like an extended/experimental arm of Goldman Sachs or Wall St. Wherever I look, there are snake oil sellers around every corner it seems.
The best advice someone could give a BTC beginner probably is to : at first do nothing at all but read, research, calculate, verify, double-check and read up some more... (in an environment where time is BTC, almost literally)

So far, that (not BTC itself or its philosophy) is the clearest impression I witnessed, some of the hardest part working with BTC seems to find anyone not trying to rip you off or at least skim you a little bit. Maybe its users (the human with all its fear & greed) might turn out to be BTC's biggest shortcoming even if fully legit and there's definitely no firmware patch available for that :P

IMHO, when it comes to high finance and big money (any type), there are no nice guys to happen to better the world for free. Never have been, never will be, short of a reincarnation of Jesus or something (if you're into that kinda stuff). It's a nice dream but that's all.

Whatever the true case will turn out to be with BTC, I will remain extremely wary of its future and treat it like a hobby.
Being an IT guy for over 30 years, I kinda learned how much trust 0's and 1's deserve and in BTC mine just turns out to be very low.
I'm already extremely skeptical of the established 0's and 1's (M2, digital bank accounts, central banks print-athlon etc.), the closest we've seen to "2nd Life economics" so far just doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

(Disclaimer : I'm a very core-valuation guy, so I prefer stuff that has inherent value recognized worldwide regardless of age, issuer, governments or intended use. Bytes to me will always be Bytes, nothing more, no matter how the story is spun. Doesn't take much to make them flip and machines are only as "smart" as their creators & operators we often don't even know; herd mentality from mass movement quickly can create a false sense of security which needs to be sanity checked every day. Reserving some sceptical thoughts has always paid off over time.)

PS.
Funny thought experiment with a maybe somewhat surprising outcome :

Considering the worst-case scenario (BTC an invention of evil governments and central bankers, the Globo "Prologue")...
If that was the case, they actually couldn't afford to let it entirely crash & burn, as this would sabotage any future concepts of a one world government, globally traded currency.
Basically, they would have to transform it at some point to enable full control & power over it (their religion). As soon as sufficient governments take active steps to legalize and tax Bitcoin aka incorporate/assimilate it (one small step for BTC, one giant leap for TPTB), that's when I would head for the nearest exit.
(seeing very first developments in that area but too early to tell)

Why is it bullshit? Because it attacks your precious feeble coin? Does the truth hurt you? Does it make you cry?

It's very hard for them to adopt Bitcoin, as they won't have control over the value of it, meaning the 1% won't be billionaires and trilliionaires. Hence it won't likely be adopted, unless they pass so many regulations and laws, that basically converts it into a centralized controlled protocol. Meaning there is no set number of coins anymore but they could create as many as they want.

Basically if it is adopted it's going to be so different from Bitcoin it won't even matter, it will just be their digital fiat equivalent.

Why did BTC fall so much last 24 hours ?

Actually I was wondering, what if some beneficiary of current system buys all BTC and destroys his hard drive? Wouldn't it mean that BTC is lost?

Ohh man love it. OPs Point #1 coming to frutition it never seems to amaze to see bitcointards get crushed and reveal their utter stupidity.

Fincen going after businesses:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-17/us-treasurys-financial-crimes-enforcement-network-reaching-out-bitcoin-businesses

China bans deposits:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-18/bitcoin-crashes-after-china-bans-new-btc-deposits-pboc-gets-ddosed-retaliation

Europe starting to tax it and highly regulate it. Bitcointards we ride!

Because this thread. Thanks OP, you broke bitcoin.

Let's open a tread about some governments. Maybe we can broke them too :D

I like it! Just like bitcoin, governments die without support.

Because this thread. Thanks OP, you broke bitcoin.

 :D maybe yes but probobly not.. Something must have happened biger. Maybe hacked a lot of BTC

That is a valid point. The same flaw has gold. What if someone buy all gold and destroys it with some acid?
-> keep your hands aways from gold!  >:(

hold even after biblical events onfold

+1

Actually I was wondering, what if some beneficiary of current system buys all BTC and destroys his hard drive? Wouldn't it mean that BTC is lost?

Okey, Okey, Okey, everybody calm down don't eat your lips out, first things first.

The media did their part( News flash)
Some countries too it up(Cyprus, Canada etc)
Investors came in.
The love for the coin grew, and i love it so much because its unique and outstanding you cant create or break it its here to stay.
:

My own rant: Bitcoin ain't gonna die,
I know world corrupt leaders will try to kill it.
Negative views will do same
Haters like the OP who has no love for BTC
Hackers will try to create bad impression.
===========================
The bad news is less, here is the good news.
========Smile================
Bitcoin will grow because its already here
Its a transparent currency
There are still lots of blocks unsolved
We the bitcoin community will use it, accept it and make more useful software, systems, websites to promote bitcoin.
Like in every currency, Dollar etc, its hack-able, steal-able, there is no difference, because all banks have their online banking, and credit cards so things that happen to bitcoin still actually can happen to your precious dollar.

Concerned about bitcoin dying, you should be concerned about pushing it forward and not giving reasons why its gonna fall, who are you? The guy that sold him bitcoin before it hit its peak. Get a life either you hate it or love it but whichever one you choose understand this.


[/color]

But OP your bitcoin might die coz u dnt know how to manage of read the system properly..

Best Regards Bro.. Keep criticizing..

Okey, Okey, Okey, everybody calm down don't eat your lips out, first things first.

The media did their part( News flash)
Some countries too it up(Cyprus, Canada etc)
Investors came in.
The love for the coin grew, and i love it so much because its unique and outstanding you cant create or break it its here to stay.
:

My own rant: Bitcoin ain't gonna die,
I know world corrupt leaders will try to kill it.
Negative views will do same
Haters like the OP who has no love for BTC
Hackers will try to create bad impression.
===========================
The bad news is less, here is the good news.
========Smile================
Bitcoin will grow because its already here
Its a transparent currency
There are still lots of blocks unsolved
We the bitcoin community will use it, accept it and make more useful software, systems, websites to promote bitcoin.
Like in every currency, Dollar etc, its hack-able, steal-able, there is no difference, because all banks have their online banking, and credit cards so things that happen to bitcoin still actually can happen to your precious dollar.

Concerned about bitcoin dying, you should be concerned about pushing it forward and not giving reasons why its gonna fall, who are you? The guy that sold him bitcoin before it hit its peak. Get a life either you hate it or love it but whichever one you choose understand this.


[/color]

But OP your bitcoin might die coz u dnt know how to manage of read the system properly..

Best Regards Bro.. Keep criticizing..

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%?

Technically, it's new 0.01% against the old 1%.
It is not guaranteed that the old 1% would succeed in retaining power.
Yes, the decentralized currency deserves all the explanation it can get. 
The war is coming, but the resistance is NOT futile.

That's right, only pussies defeat themselves psychologically before the battle begins.  I'd prefer not to fight and just be free, but am prepared for defense of financial freedom from those who would try to aggressively take it away.

I really appreciated OP views and others that work hard to think about pitfalls. He has some good points. As for my thoughts:

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Not a valid reason for failure. Gold is decentralized--controlled yes, manipulated yes, but largely cannot regulate effectively, even though USA has tried in the past. Bitcoin won't fail because it is decentralized. If anything, it guarantees success just maybe not at the level you are imagining.

I suppose if the USA issued a statement that you can go to jail if you issue a BTC transaction of any sort, then it would be doomed, but then I think you have rebellion and we are doomed anyway. 

2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT

Not a reason for failure, but a risk. I have always argued that you can be an atheist and hate religion and the manipulationg and control it represents, but then I say you are probably putting your faith in a different group of priests, which can just as easily create their own tyranny.

I think the same idea applies here. You can hate the government and believe bitcoin is the answer, but ultimately we are putting our faith in a different group of politicians. However, if anything this is a harbinger of success not failure, global domination must be organized, planned and executed, so bitcoin foundation get to it.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Yes could cause failure if 100TB is necessary tomorrow, no will not because it is software and we have years... if they can fix healthcare.gov bitcoin blockchain will evolve and remain decentralized. Guaranteed and I know nothing about the ideas anyone has ever thrown around on this.

4. Double Spends

Same as as #3 and a stretch anyway.

5. Slow Speed

Bitcoin does not need to replace fiat to be worth $10k a BTC, it only needs to be considered relatively liquid, similar but rather different issue.

6. Un-Scalable

Same as #3, and #4, if

51% Attacks

A risk, however, why would they raid their own hen house. It this happens, it would be because of sabotage from unseen forces like Ed Snowden's boss.

Unstable Exchange Rate

Definitely not a failure point. It will solve itself over time. Gold is unstable but will always be valuable. I lost 5k in gold value this year alone.

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

BTC never needs to replace fiat, and it does have benefit your post eludes to a few. BTC is its own class, I agree that right now a regular currency it is not.

5. CONCLUSION

No real red flags for failure to me that I see.

I don't even care about how many Bitcoin users there are. How many individual investors are there in AAPL??? Likely a few million. AAPL is worth 500+ billion i think. That is one single puny stock.

 

They are taking it away what are you doing about it? That's right nothing,  besides being Internet tough guy.

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Except.... Apple has made the difficulty slightly easier than bitcoin so miners leave the bitcoin network to concentrate on the Apple network. This has the effect of increasing the desirability (price) of AppleCoin and decreasing the desirability (price) of bitcoin.

Interesting. So you've discovered a new economic principle whereby increasing the supply of item A relative to item B results in the price of item B to drop in relation to item A.

I sense a Nobel prize in the works.

But that would seem to have little relationship to AppleCoin.

I believe the principal is very well established. I'll call it the De Beers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers#Marketing) principal. Although I'm sure economist have a better name for it...

You create a cartel and control the introduction into the market of a commodity that is very plentiful and through marketing and limiting supply you make it expensive and desirable.

I am not quite sure, but I believe OP is one of the people that sold his BTC at 50, and has been fuming ever since.  Bitcoin will not fail, just as rare (unique) items in video games don't fail.  Look at runescape economy, partyhats (worthless, no intrinsic value) are over 1kUSD each.  Why?  Because they can't be produced.

Schiff made that same AppleCoin point too, only more eloquently I think.

What if some organization, say some bank in China, sees the advantages of Bitcoin and makes their own. It's a 1:1 copy of BTC, only they premine it, and also declare that 1 coin is worth 1ounce of gold.

Why would anyone still mine Bitcoin? You could switch your miners to mine this new coin, and boom, you're getting free gold. Then the bank can work in coordination with governments, rich folks, and really just the 1%. The people won't know the difference. To them the utility of using a Cryptocoin is the same whether it's Bitcoin, some AltCoin, or a Chinese BitGoldCoin.

But wait, there's more. Sure you could use BTC. But then good luck securing your coins. That's already a problem. Storage solutions at the moment are just not good. I've personally lost 1BTC that way back in the day. Many people have lost much more. But no need to worry about it with the Chinese BitGoldCoin. It's already being issued by a bank, so they'll also guarantee you safe storage at their servers. It's already a bank. And since it's centralized, there's no need for the community to run full nodes.

It just paints a picture of a theoretical 1%-backed CryptoCoin to do a hell of a lot better with the general public than Bitcoin can do.

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Almost never, and even when they did “win” it was basically the 1% handing off power to another form, and still running it behind the scenes just to appease the people.

Even if they allowed Bitcoin to become successful, they will regulate it so heavily, that it will pretty  much lose any “benefits” that it had, (Europe is preparing to tax and regulate Bitcoin) and pretty much becomes centralized and just like anything else.

The current system will stay in power with centralized control, hence why they will create their own digital fiat currencies replacing their paper, to even gain more control.

2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT

Basically the “official” releases come from the Bitcoin Foundation. The development is pretty much centralized. Even if people fix everything wrong with Bitcoin, the foundation makes the final decision on what to include in it's next version on it's own priorities. This is basically all run by “Gavin” who caused Satoshi to disappear after he decided to meet with the CIA. The same guy who has not addressed any of the issues going to be discussed below for the whole time he has been in control. Whether by accident or on purpose is not the point. The point is the main trusted Bitcoin client is controlled by one entity, and everything they say, do, or don't do goes.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?

Double Spends

Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.

Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.

Slow Speed

Waiting for a transaction to fully confirm, is not feasible for day to day transactions. Yes let's hear the Credit Cards take 180 day confirms. One no they don't they confirm instantly, the money is just on hold for 90-180 days if the merchant sells a crappy product and refuses to honor warranty or remedy the issue. If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit. Secondly, most important the buyer pays and gets his goods immediately, unlike Bitcoin where they have to wait for a few confirmations to be sure.

Un-Scalable

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

51% Attacks

51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.

Unstable Exchange Rate

It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation.

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

With everything mentioned above it shows that Bitcoin has no real advantage over fiat for 99% of the people in the world. You can't pay your bills or general living expenses in it, can't buy much with it. It's slow, not consumer friendly, as once a payment is sent there is no charge back method. Guess what 90% of the world are consumers not merchants. If Bitcoin doesn't appeal to the regular consumer who buys goods from merchants it will never succeed. Even if it succeeds it's doomed by it's very architecture which can't handle the success.

The only use it has, is sending small internationally pretty quickly, which then again gets converted to fiat for people to actually use. What market is there for small international payments 5-10% of the world?

No entity would trust high sums of money to be transferred with Bitcoin with all of it's flaws. Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? Bitcoin has about 3 million users in a 5 year period. Facebook in that same time had what? 600M-1 Billion users.

Not to mention by the time, I have opened 10 accounts just to buy and convert Bitcoin, I could have swiped my credit/debit card 1000 times.

5. CONCLUSION

Even if Bitcoin or another crypto currency fixes all of these issues, they are still doomed to fail because of reason #1.

With zero advantages and quite a few disadvantages over fiat, centralized incompetent development, and inhert flaws Bitcoin is doomed. So next time you get excited about Bitcoin growing, and can't wait for it's mass adaption, just know it's own growth is another nail in it's coffin. Bitcoin is digging it's own grave.


Before all the geniuses on this forum come and give your wonderful flawed opinions, and say how wonderful it is, and it's going places, and I am wrong, and Gavin will fix everything, and Bitcoin will take over the world as a currency and payment system. Please refer below to get a reality check:

Bitcoin users in 5 years: 3 Million

Oh my god, shame on me  8), im such a bad person  :-*..., you are naive, belive it or not, the people like me are the majority of the of the bitcoin owners... There might not hold the majority of the coins, cause they are not early adopters but they surrely make the majority of the people who INVESTED in bitcoin. Beside i dont think i get rich overnight, i bought somewhere in the begging of the year, and the more i read about bitcoin, the more im getting conviced that it wont succed in the longer or even shorter run:-(. And people like you are one of the reasons... i gave a STRONG argument, why dont you argue its false? I would like to buy additional bitcoins, even have the money ready, but this particular argument is a one big STOP/HOLD sign for me. So PLEASE someone, argue this argument and disaprove it... (if you can, and no, this argument in its "whole depth" hasnt been adressed anywhere yet).
BTW you should never "emotionally" stick to your investments, thats just stupid because it blinds your judgement.

Oh my god, shame on me  8), im such a bad person  :-*..., you are naive, belive it or not, the people like me are the majority of the of the bitcoin owners... There might not hold the majority of the coins, cause they are not early adopters but they surrely make the majority of the people who INVESTED in bitcoin. Beside i dont think i get rich overnight, i bought somewhere in the begging of the year, and the more i read about bitcoin, the more im getting conviced that it wont succed in the longer or even shorter run:-(. And people like you are one of the reasons... i gave a STRONG argument, why dont you argue its false? I would like to buy additional bitcoins, even have the money ready, but this particular argument is a one big STOP/HOLD sign for me. So PLEASE someone, argue this argument and disaprove it... (if you can, and no, this argument in its "whole depth" hasnt been adressed anywhere yet).
BTW you should never "emotionally" stick to your investments, thats just stupid because it blinds your judgement.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying anything like you are a bad or a stupid person. :) I'm just saying if we all just buy and hold and do nothing else, bitcoin has no chance to succeed.

As for your concern, here's my two cents. If you buy bitcoin is for double or triple your fiat in the end, then yes all your concern is valid. One of The biggest risks is certainly the governments. If they united to ban bitcoin, it's possible for bitcoin to be in underground forever and maybe never worth more than 10 dollar again.

The true believers, however, think bitcoin is the future of money and they don't believe the government and fiats anymore. Maybe you are in a country where you have 100% trust on your government and fiat. However, in many countries, fiat is not so safe at all. As we know, US and China all print a lot of fiat every year, and people's life saving all significantly reduce due to inflation. Some people are in a worse condition, they don't believe their government anymore cause they will go bankrupt or there may be some kind of revolution. What can they do? Buy US dollars or gold? It's really risky to keep save and avoid confiscating. Bitcoin becomes the god giving for them.

So the short answer is that if you trust more on governments and fiat, go for the traditional investing cause bitcoin is too risky. If you don't trust the government and fiat 100%, you put some part of your wealth ino bitcoin, cause bitcoin is created to hedge the risk of fiat failure, huge inflation or political disasters, not to be rich with no efforts.

Thanks for your kind reminding about not to be emotional on ones investment. That's a great advice and I agree with it completely. However, being emotional means you try to find all reasons to defend your opinion but do nothing really help. In my case, I just want to clarify that bitcoin could be an ideal store of value in the near future and for it become true, all true believers should contribute to this project. Yes, I think bitcoin as a project more than a pure investment. More we can do for it, more chance it will succeed.

Think for a second, all people in the world have a equally fair way to store their wealth safely in bitcoin, carry it everywhere freely, and never being afraid of huge inflation, disaster, war, government bankruptcy, financial crisis. Isn't it a brighter future?

For bitcoin to succeed it needs to attain practical value.

You should never use bitcoin to store your wealth. You can speculate on it but dont use it for savings.

Even if you think it will increease in the value the reason you shouldnt save in it is simple.

Money is not a commodity. In an economy what is traded are goods and services not currencies.

If people were to trade silver gold and cryptos they would starve to death. Nobody would know how to build or house or assemble a car.

Money is a utility to facilitate trading, to make it easy and quick.

For bitcoin to be money it needs to have the same practical value that fiat has. As long as the world functions on fiat this is going to be super difficult because there is going to be so much cost incurred by exchanging btc to fiat

everytime you transact that I think it wont have  an edge over fiat Especially with government obstacles in place.

I love bitcoin and the network but I dont close my eyes for the obvious obsticles it faces.

Bravo, unfortunately many do close their eyes. They will have much greater worries than Bitcoin.

Yes #1 is the biggest one...when the USA, EU, and China, India, etc, ban the use of BTC and make it a felony, then usage will die off really quick.  If they can make homosexuality illegal in some of these countries, they can certainly make bitcoin illegal.

yes they can certainly ban bitcoins, and just like banning homosexuality wont stop homosexuality, so too will banning bitcoins not eliminate the use of bitcoins. In fact quite the opposite effect will occur i suspect.

OMG, this is to misinformed and SO SO SO WRONG... If these govs ban using bitcoin, no normal merchant will accept it (besides some underground ones) and if noone normal accept it, and its quite clear that noone will accept in in the future, the price will CRASH.

Bitcoin already has practical value.  It does not yet have universal practical value.

For many people, Bitcoin is the best option to transfer wealth from one jurisdiction to another.

In many environments, inflation and government controls steadily rob people of their earned wealth.

Bitcoin is not yet valuable to everyone, but it has become extremely useful to some.

And it has even greater potential value.

  The point is that homosexuals exist whether or not they are banned, so will bitcoin. You might not read about it and the activity may be hidden but it exists. Maybe the price will be lower, maybe higher but even if banned by .gov, really all it has to do is be able to solve problems for a segment of the population in order to win. It does that and it has been doing that for some time now. The price is starting to reflect the fact that it is a solid protocol foundation for other layers to be built upon to create the best value transfer system man has seen yet (open source, peer to peer distributed network, adaptable, and antifragile.  The bitcoin network is not just computers, it is people. These people are also a decentralized network of thinkers, coders, economists, entrepreneurs, hackers, speculators, etc. who have given Bitcoin (and bitcoin) a serious look and decided to join in. Many have dedicated their entire lives to this project. Don't tell me that doesn't have power.

  I've been an early part of many trends in my life from music to mixed martial arts. I know a trend when I see it now. Bitcoin is gaining critical mass because it has the kind of hardcore supporters, and the technical veracity that are so necessary for mass adoption of anything really positive. Some of you rednecks can go ahead and shit on it all you want . It really won't hurt me at all as my choices will be the same to support this idea. The detractors here are rank newbs. You should have been around during the long, slow slide from $31.66 to $2.00 to see some real "something awful" type trolling. Government may be powerful but it can't really force everyone to comply with all of it's rules and making things illegal does not make them go away. So far, bitcoin's been kicking fiat (and gold's) ass. C'est la vie.

edit- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s3T9opvPHI

How can u be a Senior Member with activity of 224 and post such bullshit?

Embarrassing.

 The point is that homosexuals exist whether or not they are banned, so will bitcoin. You might not read about it and the activity may be hidden but it exists. Maybe the price will be lower, maybe higher but even if banned by .gov, really all it has to do is be able to solve problems for a segment of the population in order to win. It does that and it has been doing that for some time now. The price is starting to reflect the fact that it is a solid protocol foundation for other layers to be built upon to create the best value transfer system man has seen yet (open source, peer to peer distributed network, adaptable, and antifragile.  The bitcoin network is not just computers, it is people. These people are also a decentralized network of thinkers, coders, economists, entrepreneurs, hackers, speculators, etc. who have given Bitcoin (and bitcoin) a serious look and decided to join in. Many have dedicated their entire lives to this project. Don't tell me that doesn't have power.

  I've been an early part of many trends in my life from music to mixed martial arts. I know a trend when I see it now. Bitcoin is gaining critical mass because it has the kind of hardcore supporters, and the technical veracity that are so necessary for mass adoption of anything really positive. Some of you rednecks can go ahead and shit on it all you want . It really won't hurt me at all as my choices will be the same to support this idea. The detractors here are rank newbs. You should have been around during the long, slow slide from $31.66 to $2.00 to see some real "something awful" type trolling. Government may be powerful but it can't really force everyone to comply with all of it's rules and making things illegal does not make them go away. So far, bitcoin's been kicking fiat (and gold's) ass. C'est la vie.

edit- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s3T9opvPHI

You are so so so wrong and naive :-(, and i dont mean that in a mean way, but if majority of bitcoin people are like you then got save me :-(... You are too passionate of something that is just money... and investment... your "ideals" are not good in this manner, its not good for you either. Dont get me wrong i would like or even love bitcoin to skyrocket, but there are serious arguments againts it...

If gov. BANS bitcoin worldwide, serious ban, even some agreements signed  internationaly with some economic secretary of state, bitcoin is DOOMED. If no normal merchants will take it, and if it is clear that no one "normal" will take it (not counting underground sellers of drugs guns etc.) because he would face some serious troubles with government (just high taxes on bitcoin bussiness would do the deal) the price would so low, nobody would care about it... Yeah... it would still exist but it would be a marginal thing... I im not interested in marginal things because no money... (and vast majority of people think like me in this matter).

How would the price of bitcoin ever recover if there would be globall (just few important states would do) "ban" on bitcoin with international publicity, signed documents etc.. If everybody knows this is a serious and permant ban then bye bye bitcoin high price. Argue this... you cant probably... I would like to put more fiat into bitcoin but this one issue (serious international ban on bitcoin) is a big nightmare for me, and its easy to accomplish for governments.

You are so so so wrong and naive :-(, and i dont mean that in a mean way, but if majority of bitcoin people are like you then got save me :-(... You are too passionate of something that is just money... and investment... your "ideals" are not good in this manner, its not good for you either. Dont get me wrong i would like or even love bitcoin to skyrocket, but there are serious arguments againts it...

If gov. BANS bitcoin worldwide, serious ban, even some agreements signed  internationaly with some economic secretary of state, bitcoin is DOOMED. If no normal merchants will take it, and if it is clear that no one "normal" will take it (not counting underground sellers of drugs guns etc.) because he would face some serious troubles with government (just high taxes on bitcoin bussiness would do the deal) the price would so low, nobody would care about it... Yeah... it would still exist but it would be a marginal thing... I im not interested in marginal things because no money... (and vast majority of people think like me in this matter).

How would the price of bitcoin ever recover if there would be globall (just few important states would do) "ban" on bitcoin with international publicity, signed documents etc.. If everybody knows this is a serious and permant ban then bye bye bitcoin high price. Argue this... you cant probably... I would like to put more fiat into bitcoin but this one issue (serious international ban on bitcoin) is a big nightmare for me, and its easy to accomplish for governments.

Every one of those tired points has easy counters. Search the forum, dude.

In one case bitcoin is doomed. If Everyone is like the above post author, who is non believer but bought some BTC, do nothing to promote it and just want someday it will worth millions. They will abandon the ship as soon as some governments ban the bitcoin. Do you think there's any reason for these kind of speculators to be rich overnight?

Fortunately, there's enough true believers there to work every day to bring more features and more applications. Moreover, they are advocating and explaining so more people could have a better understanding.
Bitcoin can only succeed with these people.

 The point is that homosexuals exist whether or not they are banned, so will bitcoin. You might not read about it and the activity may be hidden but it exists. Maybe the price will be lower, maybe higher but even if banned by .gov, really all it has to do is be able to solve problems for a segment of the population in order to win. It does that and it has been doing that for some time now. The price is starting to reflect the fact that it is a solid protocol foundation for other layers to be built upon to create the best value transfer system man has seen yet (open source, peer to peer distributed network, adaptable, and antifragile.  The bitcoin network is not just computers, it is people. These people are also a decentralized network of thinkers, coders, economists, entrepreneurs, hackers, speculators, etc. who have given Bitcoin (and bitcoin) a serious look and decided to join in. Many have dedicated their entire lives to this project. Don't tell me that doesn't have power.

  I've been an early part of many trends in my life from music to mixed martial arts. I know a trend when I see it now. Bitcoin is gaining critical mass because it has the kind of hardcore supporters, and the technical veracity that are so necessary for mass adoption of anything really positive. Some of you rednecks can go ahead and shit on it all you want . It really won't hurt me at all as my choices will be the same to support this idea. The detractors here are rank newbs. You should have been around during the long, slow slide from $31.66 to $2.00 to see some real "something awful" type trolling. Government may be powerful but it can't really force everyone to comply with all of it's rules and making things illegal does not make them go away. So far, bitcoin's been kicking fiat (and gold's) ass. C'est la vie.

edit- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s3T9opvPHI

That's the beauty of Bitcoin. It wasn't designed to serve everyone, it was designed to give a chance to that .01% society who have high IQ but were shut out by the corruption in this world. I mean, who really gives a shit about making it work for *everyone*? Fuck the average person.

They can't currently do that as all the coins have never been made yet, but if someone theoretically did that then yes they would all be destroyed.

That's the beauty of Bitcoin. It wasn't designed to serve everyone, it was designed to give a chance to that .01% society who have high IQ but were shut out by the corruption in this world. I mean, who really gives a shit about making it work for *everyone*? Fuck the average person.

Actually I was wondering, what if some beneficiary of current system buys all BTC and destroys his hard drive? Wouldn't it mean that BTC is lost?

Actually I was wondering, what if some beneficiary of current system buys all BTC and destroys his hard drive? Wouldn't it mean that BTC is lost?

Yes they are and you're a faggot if you think otherwise. Simple as that.

Oh, and you can suck my smug cock and gobble all the jizz.

Riiiiiiiiight, deadgiveaway (sarcasm). Those billions of people that can't afford a pencil, never mind access to a semi-decent education, are all inherently "stupid". This is all about creating a new oligarchy of "high IQ" elites who'll be free to exploit and abuse the rest selfishly.... a marvellous step forward for humanity!

Thanks for your post. You've greatly enlightened me regarding the noble and egalitarian ideals of Bitcoin and cryptos in general. Feel free to label me a "faggot" too; not homosexual but not homophobic either, so I won't be offended in the slightest.

If this important piece of innovation dies... I won't hesitate to rest the blame squarely at megalomaniacs like you that seek to selfishly twist and corrupt it. No wonder Satoshi stayed anon and left the forum years ago... he's undoubtedly ashamed to be associated with the likes of you.

you mean those billions of people that can't read or write but love using their smartphone ?

The poorest (i.e. those "billions") can't afford high-end smartphones; they're using e.g. Series 3 Nokias for SMS and calls.

Anyway; my objection was to deadgiveaway's assertion that anyone who doesn't understand cryptos is inherently stupid and not worthy of consideration.

Go debate Stefan Molyneux about this... He'll destroy you  ;)

after doing some more research I don't think bitcoin itself will be the one that remains strong long term, nor litecoin. Blockchain sizes and transaction times will have to be dealt with. My guess is that some altcoin at some point with faster transaction times and newer technologies to perhaps eliminate having to keep a blockchain of every transaction ever recorded will replace bitcoin... I don't know the technical specs if even say wiping all blockchain transactions older than 90 days would work but that's what I would do... 10+ minute transaction times is simply not going to spur widespread adoption... so there's still time to speculate on altcoins. :)

And they do so without being able to read, write, or afford a pencil! Amazing!

I agree with that objection. Its just that you started spouting nonsense unrelated to that after making said objection.

I have a question that is relevant to the topic.

Mining costs money.
Mining is necessary to secure transactions.
Mining earns you coins for now but eventually it will not earn you anything (once all the coins are mined in... was it 50 years?).

Why would anyone mine once all the coins have been mined? And would the system not collapse if everyone stops mining?

Why is every popular post on this forum about Bitcoin failing? Why does anyone respond to these posters? Isn't it a better idea to just let them sink to the bottom of the cesspool and focus on more positive things?

I was not aware "every" popular post is about Bitcoin failing?  Perhaps you are confusing fantasy with reality again John.

You say on page 11 of a thread titled, "Why Bitcoin is doomed to fail". Who's john?

When there's no new coins, transaction fee still rewards the miners. When the profit decreases, the number of miners will decrease and so does the difficulty (sadly the two weeks adjust cycle seems a little bit too long). There suppose to be a equilibrium.

If I want to mine bitcoin and make transaction in bitcoin to whoever is willing to accept them, no government whatsoever as any power on me or the other person involved.

It's like wanting to tax someone for trading a potatoe for a cabbage.

If I want to mine bitcoin and make transaction in bitcoin to whoever is willing to accept them, no government whatsoever as any power on me or the other person involved.

It's like wanting to tax someone for trading a potatoe for a cabbage.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=potato+tax
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cabbage+tax

There is no selling price "5. Tax deducted from selling price".  This law only applies to trades done with money.
The key to the law is here "and pays, or becomes liable to pay, the tax imposed under this section".  For a person to become liable to 'pay', there needs to be money involved.  No money, no liability.

There is no selling price "5. Tax deducted from selling price".  This law only applies to trades done with money.

It's like wanting to tax someone for trading a potato for a cabbage.

Don't use metaphors in online debate.
There are literal flat earthers out there.
People will think you mean it literally.

I just bought some at the store and had to pay a tax on both

Yep, but BTC is still traded for money, not potatoes or cabbages. So tax will be eventually applied, soon or later.

It is for now.  But what happens when there is no need to exchange Bitcoin for money to buy things.  Bitpay has over 10000 merchants that accept Bitcoin directly, this number is growing daily.
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7023/bitpay-surpasses-10000-merchants/
Imagine when you can buy things from the local store with Bitcoin.  Until Bitcoin is recognized legally as a currency, all trades done with Bitcoin are to be considered bartered trades, no tax applies.

Even if someone accepts cabbages and potatoes to sell BTC, at some point that BTC will be exchanged by fiat currency.

Bitcoin it will never be treated at the same level as fiat money.
You are failing to understand that BTC never will be legally recognized as fiat currency
Ask your self: if BTC is so good for tax evasion, why are not Google using it? It is well know that companies like Google do whatever they can to evade tax. So why are not Google accepting BTC?

That is what Bitpay does, it help merchants to receive fiat money after an on-the-fly exchange for BTC.

It is for now.  But what happens when there is no need to exchange Bitcoin for money to buy things.

New York City has gotten its first Bitcoin ATM.

You bought potatoes and cabbages with Bitcoin?  You are not even on the same subject!
He was talking about swapping potatoes for cabbages.  You are talking about buying food with money.
Let me spell it out for you slow people.  "The Government does not tax bartered items"
If you paid with money, this subject does not include you.

You're right, but only up to a point where fiat currency becomes worthless that nobody cares about it any more. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic)

Bitcoin Is Recognized As "Legal Tender" In Germany - http://www.zerohedge.com/node/477785

When I mentioned BitPay in my previous post I was trying to illustrate that the number of merchants that know about Bitcoin, and are prepared to accept Bitcoin is growing. When there are enough manufactures, wholesalers and retailers that accept Bitcoin, there will be no need to convert Bitcoin into fiat money.

Basically, the way I see it, bitcoin will gradually be accepted as the norm. It will be an alternative payment method for your daily lives. The day will come when we can enter a shop or a supermarket, get our stuff, just place our phones  over the bitcoin payment processor counter, tap accept, bitcoin gets transferred to the company or to a payment processor company, say BitPay, you walk away with the purchases you have just bought.

When paypal first came out, no one thought much about it either. Now it's already a market leader.

You're right, but only up to a point where fiat currency becomes worthless that nobody cares about it any more. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic) This takes a few years usually when one country is involved

*yawn*
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Гocпoдa мaйнepы,y мeня дeлoвoe пpeдлoжeниe.Зa 20BTC я пocoдeйcтвyю и oбecпeчy c тaкoй жe или бoльшeй cyммы дocтoйнyю пpибыль в тeчeнии длитeльнoгo вpeмeни.Moй cкaйп safonofs59
Кoличecтвo мecт oгpaничeнo.Cпacибo.

Once a certain currency becomes "worthless", the responsible central banks under the respective government directions will issue another.Have you even been aware that countries like Brazil changed they fiat currency many times when one became "worthless"?

More like a few decades.

You are completely confused. Read the article again.

Fiat money ≠ Private money

So far in history we've only witnessed cases of certain countries' currencies going to dustbin and resurrected with the loans from international financial organizations willing to provide those loans to countries, but what I am talking about in my previous post is the situation when the reserve currency itself is going to dustbin, who would back up other countries' currencies then? That's when your fiat wouldn't buy you a cabbage, actually you might even get your face punched for offering to pay in fiat for that cabbage :)

I don't even want to comment on your 'responsible central banks' phrase, it's too funny, I wouldn't know where to start.

It's actually been decades now that the reserve currency has been depreciating in real purchase power terms, since Nixon canceled the Bretton Woods system in 1971. Since then all currencies have been living on borrowed time.

When I said 'a few years', I meant the final accelerating hyperinflation period, when hyperflation becomes noticeable to everyone, who goes shopping for groceries.

LOL (Again).

No.

Reserve currency ≠ Fiat currency

This whole conversation started with you stating that "until Bitcoin is recognized legally as a currency, all trades done with Bitcoin are to be considered bartered trades, no tax applies" bullshit. Your doom's day scenario where all world economies will destabilize at the same time and everyone will suddenly only use only BTC to trade is far fetched. 

Depreciation of reserve currency ≠ Price inflation of goods

To my understanding, in the USA, the IRS considers barter a taxable event upon both parties to the barter transaction. If anyone has a citation proving otherwise, I'd certainly appreciate it if you'd share.

If you live on the same planet as me, reserve currency (the one that international trade is settled in) of this planet is still USD (although there's been steps by other countries in the last 2 years, especially China, to move away from USD), which is a fiat currency. We don't need to theorize here of what reserve currency can or cannot be. We're talking about what it is now. USD, which is a reserve currency of this planet, is fiat now, backed by nothing, unless you count aircraft carriers, of course.

@Augusto Croppo
There is a war going on man.  Time to pick a side.
What was the quote from that buffoon George W. Bush?
"you're either with us, or against us"

You are missing the point again. The initial discussion was about why trades with BTC can be taxed. You are going off the topic. Go back and read the posts again, locate yourself. BTC is also "backed by nothing". This fact alone do not hinders in any way the capacity of elected governments to collect tax from trades done with BTC.  

The United States of America constitute less than 5% of the people on this planet.  Who cares what the IRS consider barter to be?
They have a whole bunch of stupid rules, capital gains taxes, gift taxes, the list goes on.  The short answer is yes, they consider barter to be a 'taxable event'.  Where I live, we do not, nor do we have capital gains taxes or gift taxes.
Here is a link to the information you requested
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html
"Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber exchanging plumbing services for the dental services of a dentist. You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods or services received from bartering."

Thank goodness The Foundation (http://foundation.dogecoin.com/) is working on the problems.

The United States of America constitute less than 5% of the people on this planet.  Who cares what the IRS consider barter to be?
They have a whole bunch of stupid rules, capital gains taxes, gift taxes, the list goes on.  The short answer is yes, they consider barter to be a 'taxable event'.  Where I live, we do not, nor do we have capital gains taxes or gift taxes.
Here is a link to the information you requested
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html
"Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber exchanging plumbing services for the dental services of a dentist. You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods or services received from bartering."

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Almost never, and even when they did “win” it was basically the 1% handing off power to another form, and still running it behind the scenes just to appease the people.

Just beware that the creation of the unconstitutional IRS was passed with the same bill that created the unconstitutional FED in 1913... No coincidence.

The associated "authorities" in other countries have different names and dates of installment - but serve exactly the same purposes and route the cash into exactly the same structures, which are controlled by exactly the same breed of colluded central bankers. Most governments are merely muppets that dance as they are instructed to, assisted by mass media owned by just about the same people worldwide. No coincidence either.

To me, it's like comparing different "brands" of shampoo, washing powder or soap... All looking different, carry different languages, advertised and sold in various nations... all very likely owned and operated by one of the global MegaCorps (in this example Unilever).

Just beware that the creation of the unconstitutional IRS was passed with the same bill that created the unconstitutional FED in 1913... No coincidence.

Here's what to get pushed through the courts. Form contracts for any business that you do with other people. Let the contracts invoke the above Article 1 wording along with wording stating that it is the intent of the contract and the parties to the contract that no state laws apply except upon an explicit allowance by the parties to the contract that they are accepting certain stated laws. Throw in the wording that the Federal Government is a state. Say, also, that not answering a challenge by some some state authority in no way waives any part of the contract.

I didn't quite understand everything with Apple coin, as there won't be any mining involved with amazons or apples digital currency, but the thing that I can see it as a negative to Bitcoin is that with Applecoin and Amazoncoin people can actually use it to purchase thousands of goods and services.

Again these are small minuscule issues to Bitcoin, the others mentioned are far more important and devastating.

You really are an ignoramus, MikeyVeez. MtGox did not claim there is a fundamental problem with bitcoin, they admit there is a problem with their exchange.

And yes, AugustoCroppo, bitcoin is certainly doomed as per OP. Why the horror of dropping in value to where bitcoin had hit an all time high mere weeks ago. </sarcasm>

Aren't you a moderator or some such here? Why on earth would you spend so much time on something in which you do not believe?

Yawn.

 :-\

How many times I have to explain the Bitcoin software is not a religion until everyone understand that?
 

No benefit over fiat money?

That proves right there you have no idea what the hell you are talking about OP.

It's actually inferior to the US dollar.

The USD is backed by the "full faith and credit" of the United States of America. That's why our currency is the most desirable and the rest of the world relies on it for trade.

Bitcoin is backed by the full faith and credit of who? basement dwelling computer nerds, libertarian lunatics, and chinese speculators?

Yawn.

 :-\

How many times I have to explain the Bitcoin software is not a religion until everyone understand that?
 

Yeah, I get it. I still fail to see how (any) "most of the OP predictions are becoming reality." from the events of the last few days. All I see in the OP are five arguable points. None of which seem to have given any additinal credence over the last few days.

And it was a serious question - are you a moderator here? If you think this is all such a watse of time, are you getting at least paid for your role?
"validated by the

Thank you for sharing your thinking in this community. Actually I worried 2-4 more than 1.
Investing is all about philosophy, 1% is always follows the law of gravity, 1% mean to be noble staying in higher pyramid, if they are evil, they mean to fall. Usually 1% should live the way being more stupid, and 99% should live the way being more smarter. It is the law of sociology, psychology, physics and physiology. It is sort of the similar debate on efficient and inefficient market mechanism. Yes market is efficient because some people rectify it by benefiting the inefficiency.
I would not worry about point 1, I am interested in listening the solution to point 2-4.

US Dollars have lost ~94% of their value since 1900.  And bitcoin stopped falling the moment people realized that it was just mt. gox that sucked, not btc.  And how is btc useful?  Things like micro payments, micro loans which will enable economic growth in 3rd world countries (yes they do have cell phones in Africa).  A pizza place that sells 10$ worth of food with bitcoins instead of with credit card doubles his profit.  After rent, wages, food, etc.  he has a 10% profit margin, maybe.  Visa will charge him 3-5%, for arguments sake, taking 1/2 his profit.  He sells in btc, he keeps the whole 10%.  If he made $50, 000 last year, the first year he sells pizza using btc, he makes 100,000.  That seems beneficial.. oh and it can change the stock market, contracts, etc.

The USD is backed by the "full faith and credit" of the United States of America. That's why our currency is the most desirable and the rest of the world relies on it for trade.

10% profit margin on revenue.  CC companies charge fees on revenue, not profit.  a $10 meal.  5% fee from Visa= $0.50, profit was $1, is now $0.50.  with bitcoins, the pizza man makes his 10% profit on the $10 meal, so $1 profit, and pays little to no fee to bitcoin.  Each sale he accepts bitcoins he makes 2x as much profit.  Simple.

Oh, and bill gates agrees with me on the Banking revolution in 3rd world countries.
http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/11/shremgates/

Game, Set, and Match.

How much profit would you say your average mom and pop small business makes? After rent wages, everything.  I was being generous with 10%.   You can't possibly thing the pizzeria around the corner is doubling their money every year.  I'd really like for you to explain how what I said is incorrect.  I've been involved in business for a while, so I know I'm right.  Econ degree, Stock broker, hedge fund, my own business, which as a small business, after all costs are accounted for makes around 10%.  If I were talking about BestBuy I would say their margins are between 1-3%, but I didn't cause I'm talking about a hypothetical pizza place.

Edit: Gross Income:

$5,000 per week average for first year. $10,000 per week average 2nd, 3rd and 4th years. $15,000 per week 5th year.

Breakdown:

Assumptions: Store is open 12 hours per day (11 am – 11 pm) 7 days a week, average order is $20, 50/50 delivery/carryout split, average delivery is 2.5 miles.

Friday and Saturday bring in 1/2 of the total gross income. The rest is spread out evenly among the other days.

Costs:

Labor:

108 cook hours – 50 owner hours = 58 cook hours.
(1 insider Sunday - Thursday, 2 insiders Friday and Saturday)
84 driver hours.
(1 driver all week)

58 * $9.00 / hour = $522
84 * $7.25 / hour = $609

Labor before taxes: $1131

$1131 * .0765 = $86.52
$1131 * .015 = $16.97

Worker’s Comp: $250 per month/ 4
$62.50 per week

Fifty percent health insurance for 2 full-time employees:

.5 * $300 * 2 = $300/month /4

$75 per week.

($5,000/ $20 per order )*.50 = 125 deliveries per week
125 deliveries/week * 2.5 miles * .55 cents per mile = $171.88 in mileage

Total Labor: $1543.87 per week.

*Keep in mind this is an extremely conservative estimate and it is assuming that the owner will work every day of the week and that he can hire some tremendously productive staff.

Food Costs:

This I am not all that familiar with but reading around I’ve seen 10% mentioned so I will go with that. If anyone has any better insight please let me know and I’ll adjust.

$5,000 * .3 = $1500 per week.

Rent

This may still be a little low but I would assume starting a new business you would want to keep rent expense low and with the low volume having a strip mall location probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

$2,500 per month (rent + CAM)/4
$625 per week.

Utilities

According to https://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/ mmps360.pdf a Middleby Marshall oven uses 135,000 BTU per hour per rack. In my town 1 million natural gas BTUs cost $8.624.

135,000 * 7 days * 12 hours per day = 11,340,000 BTU per week
11,340,000/1,000,000 BTU * $8.624 = $97.80 per week for gas. Figure another $300 per month for heating and cooling + lights.

$172.80 per week for utilities.

Insurance

This one I am having trouble even taking a guess at. I’m guessing that since you are only purchasing liability that it isn’t that expensive. I’m going to call it $200 per month.

$200/4 = $50 per week for insurance

CC Machine / Transaction Fees (Assume ¼ of orders)

$5,000 / 4 = $1250
$1250 * .02 = $25 per week

Advertising

$5,000 * .05 = $250 per week

One time costs:

(1)   Used oven - $16,000 – 10 years
(2)   Pans/Dishes - $1000 – 5 years
(3)   Computer + Software - $1,000 – 5 years
(4)   Make line - $6000 – 15 years
(5)   Walk in - $5000 – 10 years
(6)   Hood - $5000 – 10 years
(7)   Cut table - $1000 – 15 years
(8)   Dough Table - $1000 – 15 years
(9)   Phone counter - $1000 – 15 years
(10)   Hot Rack - $1000 – 10 years
(11)   Hot bags - $500 – 5 years
(12)   Shelving - $3000 – 15 years
(13)   Signage - $5000 – 20 years
(14)   Phone System - $1500 – 5 years
(15)   3 Compartment Sink - $500 – 15 years

5 year - $16.67 per week
10 year - $56.25 per week
15 year - $17.36 per week
20 year - $5.21 per week

One time costs: $95.49 per week

Incidentals (office supplies/cleaning supplies/etc)

$200 per month / 4 = $50 per week

Maintenance

$700 per month / 4
$175 per week

Phones

$200 per month / 4
$50 per week

Accounting and Legal

$100 per month (went with low estimate because starting out it is probably easy enough to do accounting with QuickBooks).

$25 per week

Pest Control
$40 per month / 4
$10 per week

Garbage

$100 per month / 4
$25 per week

Total Costs of Operation Per Week: $4603.16.

Profit: $396.84

After at least 35% aggregate taxes:

$396.84 * .65 = $257.95 per week.

With an average of $5,000 gross sales per week the owner of this store could expect to make $12,381.60 his first year of ownership. This would equate to a net profit margin of approximately 5%.

I told you I was being generous.

Edit 2:  HAHAHAH I just realized, Game, Set, and match is from tennis.  You tried to insult me with a chess joke, after being wrong on both; your premise, the 10% profit margin you focused on to draw attention away from the fact that  credit card companies charge fees, and if those fees are 5%, and the profit a store makes on each sale is 10%.  10% of $100 is $10.  5% of $100, is $5. 10-5= 10/2.  Half.  

Or if they make 25% profit, and pay a 5% fee, they make 25, pay 5, profit is now 20.  This owner increases his profit by 20% by using bitcoin instead of credit cards. That's [1-(20/25)]*100.
Dumb shit.

Bro your a dumb fuck, nobody would run a business for 10% I've worked in a pizza shop before you dumb 3rd world country cunt, they make 50% gross margins dumbass. On liquor sales its more like 200%.

YOUR A DUMB FUCKING MORON, being generous at 10% margins LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOO

 THANKS FOR ALL THE IMAGINARY ECON 101 TEXTBOOK BUTTHURT MATH YOU DID THERE

I think Bitcoin has crossed the border risk, and cant die, maybe will addapt to survive

But if Bitcoin DOES die, it will come from a fully operational quantum computer that is controlled by the banks or governments.

The only other thing that will kill Bitcoin is a massive disruption of the Internet. But this will take down the banking system, as well.

See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=460457.msg5084101#msg5084101.

:)

it will come from a fully operational quantum computer that is controlled by the banks or governments.

Bro your a dumb fuck, nobody would run a business for 10% I've worked in a pizza shop before you dumb 3rd world country cunt, they make 50% gross margins dumbass. On liquor sales its more like 200%.

YOUR A DUMB FUCKING MORON, being generous at 10% margins LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOO

 THANKS FOR ALL THE IMAGINARY ECON 101 TEXTBOOK BUTTHURT MATH YOU DID THERE

Wow, there are some big egos around here that seem to think they know a lot about the world... I don't claim to know it all, but maybe some "seniors" around here need to look up things like M-Pesa and Africa being the fastest growing cellular market in the world... yes, that's a 3rd world country being the biggest growing market in the world!

Think about all the migrant workers all over the world and the amount they lose on fees when sending money back home to their families... then maybe you can form a clearer understanding how bitcoin can be useful to the the rest of the world and not only the elitist smartphone owners... maybe you'll start to recognize the walls of the box you're living in.

Keep going OP (and friends), Divide and Conquer!

Exactly, very true.  Thank you for bringing that back up.  I got distracted arguing one small point   that wasn't even btc related.  Thanks for bringing us back OT.

But yeah, you're right this is going to be a huge area of bitcoin growth and practical application.  Also, 3rd world peoples will like btc much more than unstable local currencies ran by local corrupt dictators.

But yeah, you're right this is going to be a huge area of bitcoin growth and practical application.  Also, 3rd world peoples will like btc much more than unstable local currencies ran by local corrupt dictators.

Why would they like the btc more? BTC has proven to be just as unstable, and it would drastically limit their possibilities in terms of exporting goods, something their economy is extremely depended on.

It's not about financial markets, it's about value transferral across borders and foreign exchange. They will generally lose a large percentage of their earnings through fees when transferring money through regular services like Western Union, but with bitcoin it's _almost free. They might not be rich or transferring loads of money, but 15% is a lot to lose when you earn $10 a day!

More old news: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/one-third-of-kenyans-now-have-a-bitcoin-wallet (http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/one-third-of-kenyans-now-have-a-bitcoin-wallet)

I see your point... But while it's great for them to be able to send money for free, I don't see how it will promote growth for the bitcoin. Hypothetical scenario: work in the U.S., earn $10, buy bitcoin, send to Kenyan family, family sell bitcoin to buy necessary goods. Becoming a vehicle currency won't help lessen the volatility of the bitcoin.

Bitcoin is at the very beginning of it's rise to mainstream use. it's going to be volatile.  Merchants can just use services like bitpay which removes volatility risk for 1% with no minimum transaction size.  You can't expect a revolutionary innovation in currency thats only been ou a few years that has only a fraction of major fiat currencies to be just as stable.

There is going to be a few years of exponential growth and volatility, until trading volume is sufficient and market cap is large enough BTC at $10,000-$100,000.  Then volatility will be more akin to that of major fiat currencies, perhaps even less.

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Almost never, and even when they did “win” it was basically the 1% handing off power to another form, and still running it behind the scenes just to appease the people.

Even if they allowed Bitcoin to become successful, they will regulate it so heavily, that it will pretty  much lose any “benefits” that it had, (Europe is preparing to tax and regulate Bitcoin) and pretty much becomes centralized and just like anything else.

The current system will stay in power with centralized control, hence why they will create their own digital fiat currencies replacing their paper, to even gain more control.

2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT

Basically the “official” releases come from the Bitcoin Foundation. The development is pretty much centralized. Even if people fix everything wrong with Bitcoin, the foundation makes the final decision on what to include in it's next version on it's own priorities. This is basically all run by “Gavin” who caused Satoshi to disappear after he decided to meet with the CIA. The same guy who has not addressed any of the issues going to be discussed below for the whole time he has been in control. Whether by accident or on purpose is not the point. The point is the main trusted Bitcoin client is controlled by one entity, and everything they say, do, or don't do goes.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?

Double Spends

Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.

Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.

Slow Speed

Waiting for a transaction to fully confirm, is not feasible for day to day transactions. Yes let's hear the Credit Cards take 180 day confirms. One no they don't they confirm instantly, the money is just on hold for 90-180 days if the merchant sells a crappy product and refuses to honor warranty or remedy the issue. If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit. Secondly, most important the buyer pays and gets his goods immediately, unlike Bitcoin where they have to wait for a few confirmations to be sure.

Un-Scalable

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

51% Attacks

51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.

Unstable Exchange Rate

It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation.

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

With everything mentioned above it shows that Bitcoin has no real advantage over fiat for 99% of the people in the world. You can't pay your bills or general living expenses in it, can't buy much with it. It's slow, not consumer friendly, as once a payment is sent there is no charge back method. Guess what 90% of the world are consumers not merchants. If Bitcoin doesn't appeal to the regular consumer who buys goods from merchants it will never succeed. Even if it succeeds it's doomed by it's very architecture which can't handle the success.

The only use it has, is sending small internationally pretty quickly, which then again gets converted to fiat for people to actually use. What market is there for small international payments 5-10% of the world?

No entity would trust high sums of money to be transferred with Bitcoin with all of it's flaws. Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? Bitcoin has about 3 million users in a 5 year period. Facebook in that same time had what? 600M-1 Billion users.

Not to mention by the time, I have opened 10 accounts just to buy and convert Bitcoin, I could have swiped my credit/debit card 1000 times.

5. CONCLUSION

Even if Bitcoin or another crypto currency fixes all of these issues, they are still doomed to fail because of reason #1.

With zero advantages and quite a few disadvantages over fiat, centralized incompetent development, and inhert flaws Bitcoin is doomed. So next time you get excited about Bitcoin growing, and can't wait for it's mass adaption, just know it's own growth is another nail in it's coffin. Bitcoin is digging it's own grave.


Before all the geniuses on this forum come and give your wonderful flawed opinions, and say how wonderful it is, and it's going places, and I am wrong, and Gavin will fix everything, and Bitcoin will take over the world as a currency and payment system. Please refer below to get a reality check:

Bitcoin users in 5 years: 3 Million

Just a reminder from the viewpoint of IT security :

Can you imagine what kind of cybercrime potential will be awaken when (in theory) everyone's wallet (assuming global mass adoption) is more or less online for daily shopping purposes - and BTC would be priced @ lets say... 10000$ ?

Given the already dire security record of basically all established mainstream Operating Systems, lack of knowledge by their users and the knowledge that certain intelligence agencies have backdoor keys to most of these systems... Oh boy, that'd be quite a show to watch.
In theory, 1st assumtion (mass adoption and/or further increased BTC pricing) may come true within a few years.
2nd assumtion that would need to follow to prevent mass mayhem (massive increase in IT security and security awareness by every joe sixpack).... not very realistic IMHO.

Now that's something to watch out for. I don't even want to speculate how many zero day exploits would be rewritten to specifically target wallets. That'd take the term "cyberwar" to a whole new level.

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

The reason you give to Bitcoin Failing is the reason i give to bitcoins success!

lol

You do know there was a time before antivirus software? People said the same about the internet.

You do know even today's most advanced Antivirus software catches at best (!) some 95-96% of typical viruses, worms and trojans, but far less than 50% of specialized/uncommon malware and only works a minimum of 3-24 hours after these malicious pieces of software have been reported, analyzed and included into updated definitions in the first place ?
(and I'm not even talking zero-day exploits there, against there is extremely little protection, nor do I talk about non-updated/exploited browsers or plugins or backdoors etc.)

btw. the time between networked IT on internet and viruses/antivirus software was fairly small. Today we have antivirus products that evolved for over 2 decades designed for allways-online systems and they still don't offer any adequate protection to high-risk IT components whatsoever.
Additionally, the software today in the very best case merely tells you "oh crap, you're infected" or "virus detected & removed! (never mind the 20 other viral components downloaded and running undetected in the meantime) - plus the Antivirus software commonly isn't even able to clean a system anymore...
I won't even venture into that any AntiVirus software can easily be rooted & disabled without you ever knowing it.

Good luck risking your financial portofolio to some antivirus software that's nearly always late for the show, if you'll notice at all before it's too late.

That false sense of security and blind trust in future developments (nah, they'll fix that I'm suuuuure) is one of the greatest dangers to everyday IT - today!. Never mind that getting worse by a hundredfold in the described scenario...

PS.
When people warned about the risks of permanent network connections - they were laughed at as "conspiracy theorists". Now these "nuts" get paid 6 or 7-digit sums per year and are among the most highly sought resources in IT security... Go figure who was right in the first place, the sheeple learned their lessons (as usual) the hard way. Seems intense pain is the the only thing that kicks some form of learning curve into them - as usual.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

Where are the developers standing up for this and speaking up for this, maybe  missed there comments in the 16 damm pages of BAD ATTENTION, but come on DEVs stand up for your coin... I am sure you were prepared for some of this... SPeak up ? or are you just as scared as the OP?

Read my EDITED COmment above ^^^

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Almost never, and even when they did “win” it was basically the 1% handing off power to another form, and still running it behind the scenes just to appease the people.

Even if they allowed Bitcoin to become successful, they will regulate it so heavily, that it will pretty  much lose any “benefits” that it had, (Europe is preparing to tax and regulate Bitcoin) and pretty much becomes centralized and just like anything else.

The current system will stay in power with centralized control, hence why they will create their own digital fiat currencies replacing their paper, to even gain more control.

2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT

Basically the “official” releases come from the Bitcoin Foundation. The development is pretty much centralized. Even if people fix everything wrong with Bitcoin, the foundation makes the final decision on what to include in it's next version on it's own priorities. This is basically all run by “Gavin” who caused Satoshi to disappear after he decided to meet with the CIA. The same guy who has not addressed any of the issues going to be discussed below for the whole time he has been in control. Whether by accident or on purpose is not the point. The point is the main trusted Bitcoin client is controlled by one entity, and everything they say, do, or don't do goes.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?

Double Spends

Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.

Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.

Slow Speed

Waiting for a transaction to fully confirm, is not feasible for day to day transactions. Yes let's hear the Credit Cards take 180 day confirms. One no they don't they confirm instantly, the money is just on hold for 90-180 days if the merchant sells a crappy product and refuses to honor warranty or remedy the issue. If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit. Secondly, most important the buyer pays and gets his goods immediately, unlike Bitcoin where they have to wait for a few confirmations to be sure.

Un-Scalable

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

51% Attacks

51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.

Unstable Exchange Rate

It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation.

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

With everything mentioned above it shows that Bitcoin has no real advantage over fiat for 99% of the people in the world. You can't pay your bills or general living expenses in it, can't buy much with it. It's slow, not consumer friendly, as once a payment is sent there is no charge back method. Guess what 90% of the world are consumers not merchants. If Bitcoin doesn't appeal to the regular consumer who buys goods from merchants it will never succeed. Even if it succeeds it's doomed by it's very architecture which can't handle the success.

The only use it has, is sending small internationally pretty quickly, which then again gets converted to fiat for people to actually use. What market is there for small international payments 5-10% of the world?

No entity would trust high sums of money to be transferred with Bitcoin with all of it's flaws. Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? Bitcoin has about 3 million users in a 5 year period. Facebook in that same time had what? 600M-1 Billion users.

Not to mention by the time, I have opened 10 accounts just to buy and convert Bitcoin, I could have swiped my credit/debit card 1000 times.

5. CONCLUSION

Even if Bitcoin or another crypto currency fixes all of these issues, they are still doomed to fail because of reason #1.

With zero advantages and quite a few disadvantages over fiat, centralized incompetent development, and inhert flaws Bitcoin is doomed. So next time you get excited about Bitcoin growing, and can't wait for it's mass adaption, just know it's own growth is another nail in it's coffin. Bitcoin is digging it's own grave.


Before all the geniuses on this forum come and give your wonderful flawed opinions, and say how wonderful it is, and it's going places, and I am wrong, and Gavin will fix everything, and Bitcoin will take over the world as a currency and payment system. Please refer below to get a reality check:

Bitcoin users in 5 years: 3 Million

Reason 1 is flawed for two reasons...

1990 - internet infrastructure could not accommodate for such a movement, plus secondly global penetration of the world wide web was a fraction of today..... according to your theory this would mean that Libya would still be under the regime of  Gadafi..... but correct me if I am mistaken, it was the masses that overthrew him....

Should the European banks approve and try to centralise BC, then it simplz validates, recognises and approved the cryptocurrency

And if we look deeper into history we find the fact that every movement that has gained traction sooner or later occupies the mainstream territory.  This indicates the fact the since BC is growing in popularity day in day out...it will be here for a long time....

The question remains.... what is the fair value of BC.

Finance claims that the recent value is driven by speculation hence the current high value.  If we believe the the speculative bubble stage theory, then we could assume BC to reach a fair market value of somewhere between 120 USD to 150 USD .

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jessecolombo/files/2014/02/stages_bubble.png

That all depends on resolution/scale of the graph and how long it goes off on the left of the screen... we could still be in the stealth phase... or gox just dropped us in the bear trap!

Indeed, but that being said, assuming we are in the bear trap, it still indicates that the currency has longevity and that the real value is much lower than today.....BUT it still has a monetary value.... :-)

LMAO bitcoin to the moon. Hey new users one of the largest exchange just stole everyones money and is bankrupt wouldn't love to accept Bitcoin.

It’s been long known that Gox is incapable of fulfilling all their USD debts ever since their main bank account was seized. On this front, they have been operating as a psuedo ponzi scheme, where new money would pay off old money. There’s been a lot of debate lately whether or not Gox had the BTC on hand to pay off all their debts, and if you read between the lines, this press release confirms that they do not. Make no mistake about it: Mt Gox is likely insolvent in BTC as well.

How, you ask? The fact that they’re complaining about this one (non)issue in particular is very telling. Since their system ran off transaction IDs, they’ve been vulnerable to attacks involving transaction malleability for god knows how long. The attack is simple: Intercept their original transaction, alter the hash of it, and rebroadcast the new transaction. If the altered transaction gets accepted into a block, you have your BTC, but it’s still marked as unreceived within the Gox system. You can then complain to support that you never got your BTC. Support would search by TXID, see that their original transaction is not included in the blockchain, and then credit your account. Congratulations, you just doubled your BTC! This is similar to how a double spend is done, but magnitudes easier to pull off.

They didn't steal it, they lost it due to incompetence.

http://cryptolife.net/today-mt-gox-died-and-it-tried-to-take-bitcoin-with-it/

 ::)

...and you believe in every word which is spoon fed to you? LoL

Just let me remind you that in the whole Bitcoin history there is not one single entity which provided evidence to prove they lost users funds to incompetence.

The "it was hacked" excuse became the standard excuse to cover up misappropriation of customers funds.

If your board go play some video games.

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

Secondly,  it can barley handle 100k transactions in a day without bogging down. Imagine if it's doing fiat numbers for transactions, Bitcoin would destroy itself.

 ::)

...and you believe in every word which is spoon fed to you? LoL

Just let me remind you that in the whole Bitcoin history there is not one single entity which provided evidence to prove they lost users funds to incompetence.

The "it was hacked" excuse became the standard excuse to cover up misappropriation of customers funds.

1. It wasn't hacked. It lost the money without being hacked.
2. The explanation is sound
3. If you have a better one I would like to hear it
4. Ridiculing the "opponent" and no actual counter argument is politics not debate
5. People lose money due to their incompetence all the time. They certainly don't lose money due to being hyper competent.