Why Bitcoin is doomed to fail, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[taltamir]

This is a good explanation.

I would honestly rather have silver coins as opposed to the same amount (in dollars) in fiat currency. Silver can't be printed, so that's another thing that makes it more favorable than fiat coins would be. You can't just inflate the silver supply, it is pretty well set out and there's not a lot you can do to change the amount of silver that exists in the world, contrary to paper money.

Paper money is literally paper, and where does it come from? Trees. Are trees always growing and new trees being planted? Yes. As such, the supply is inflating because more "Trees" are growing, and there's not a lot you can do to stop it, unless you wipe out all the trees. Silver cannot be grown (To my knowledge) like trees. Thus, silver remains favorable in my eyes.

Yea, now that the discussion has come to that, I would personally much prefer metal coins for all those reason. Although I would say that in modern times its not even trees anymore, governments now creates money electronically instead of even bothering to print it.

Of course, governments know that and come down hard on people who try to do it.
Shutting them down violently and seizing all their assets. there have been a couple of cases in the past 15 years where the US shut down such companies. they argued that people could mistake the silver and gold coins for dollars and as such they are guilty of making counterfeit money. Based on that they shut them down and confiscated everything

[1714195617]

1714195617

[awesome31312]

If your board go play some video games.

Should I play some Board Games?

You stole my line!

[clout]

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Yes, because for the first time in history wealth cannot be seized at gunpoint. Being that governments and their cronies legitimate their rule through force and coercion, they will be rendered impotent by the incorruptible nature of block chain technology. The 1%, whether free market entrepreneurs or political entrepreneurs, will always look for the best safe havens from government seizure. Block chain tech provides the most efficient solution for everyone.

2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT

Basically the “official” releases come from the Bitcoin Foundation. The development is pretty much centralized. Even if people fix everything wrong with Bitcoin, the foundation makes the final decision on what to include in it's next version on it's own priorities. This is basically all run by “Gavin” who caused Satoshi to disappear after he decided to meet with the CIA. The same guy who has not addressed any of the issues going to be discussed below for the whole time he has been in control. Whether by accident or on purpose is not the point. The point is the main trusted Bitcoin client is controlled by one entity, and everything they say, do, or don't do goes.

I agree that bitcoins development is both too centralized and too conservative at this point. There are better solutions than bitcoin and I believe that the network effect is dwindling.

3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE

Size

11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now

You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?

Thats the point of light weight clients. You don't need millions of full nodes to perform the redundant task of storing transactions. You just need a fair amount of trusted full nodes.

Double Spends

Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.

Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.

There are proof of stake solutions, such as Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS), which make double spending almost impossible.

Slow Speed

Waiting for a transaction to fully confirm, is not feasible for day to day transactions. Yes let's hear the Credit Cards take 180 day confirms. One no they don't they confirm instantly, the money is just on hold for 90-180 days if the merchant sells a crappy product and refuses to honor warranty or remedy the issue. If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit. Secondly, most important the buyer pays and gets his goods immediately, unlike Bitcoin where they have to wait for a few confirmations to be sure.

Delegated Proof of Stake allows for secure transactions of 10 seconds and under which is why BitShares X can function as an asset exchange comparable to centralized crypto exchanges.

DPoS has also been proven to work as efficiently and securely under 2 second block production.

Un-Scalable

Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.

The truth of the matter is that block chain technology is scalable, mining is not... If you put a blockchain on a central server and handled visa's level of daily transaction volume it probably wouldn't cost more then $50k a month. The more nodes you add to the server the greater the cost of processing those transactions but the greater the level of decentralization. The purpose of decentralization is to create a system than has no central point of failure or control. Once you reach the threshold at which that condition is met (obviously there is not set metric for this) the marginal cost of adding full nodes to both store and process transactions exceeds the marginal benefit. With bitcoin the cost associated with mining unnecessarily increase the cost of processing transactions to the point that the threshold at which the marginal cost of additional nodes exceeds the marginal benefits is much lower for Bitcoin and other POW systems than POS systems, and ulimately results in greater centralization and greater cost.

Given the DPoS design, blockchain solutions can easily provide a payment network that scales globally better than visa and certainly better than Bitcoin. Currently Bitcoin pays out ~$500m to miners to process less 1 tps. A DPoS system would be able handle visa 2,000 tps load at 1% of that cost.

51% Attacks

51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.

If you understand distributed consensus this isn't really an attack. But certainly Bitcoin is more vulnerable to arbitrary control than other blockchain solutions.

Unstable Exchange Rate

It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation. '

This is why bitUSD is crucial. A decentralized and cryptographically secured fixed income security is what the worlds been looking for. Not to mention bitUSD provides interest with a yield of 5-10% a year. I don't think we have to worry about unstable exchange rates anymore.

4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT

With everything mentioned above it shows that Bitcoin has no real advantage over fiat for 99% of the people in the world. You can't pay your bills or general living expenses in it, can't buy much with it. It's slow, not consumer friendly, as once a payment is sent there is no charge back method. Guess what 90% of the world are consumers not merchants. If Bitcoin doesn't appeal to the regular consumer who buys goods from merchants it will never succeed. Even if it succeeds it's doomed by it's very architecture which can't handle the success.

The only use it has, is sending small internationally pretty quickly, which then again gets converted to fiat for people to actually use. What market is there for small international payments 5-10% of the world?

No entity would trust high sums of money to be transferred with Bitcoin with all of it's flaws. Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? Bitcoin has about 3 million users in a 5 year period. Facebook in that same time had what? 600M-1 Billion users.

Not to mention by the time, I have opened 10 accounts just to buy and convert Bitcoin, I could have swiped my credit/debit card 1000 times.

Benefits of Digital Securities over Fiat

- can be transferred globally in less than 10 seconds
- fees are not a percentage of the transactions but rather a fixed amount (blockchain tech can handle visa txn volume for ~$5mil as opposed to ~$11bn - a savings of 99.95% to merchants)
- cryptographically secured - can't be counterfeited or seized
- financial system thereby becomes more secure, more transparent, more efficient and (given the design of BitShares X) more collateralized.

[taltamir]

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Yes, because for the first time in history wealth cannot be seized at gunpoint. Being that governments and their cronies legitimate their rule through force and coercion, they will be rendered impotent by the incorruptible nature of block chain technology. The 1%, whether free market entrepreneurs or political entrepreneurs, will always look for the best safe havens from government seizure. Block chain tech provides the most efficient solution for everyone.

You are discussing the hypothetical plan with which bitcoin was created. ASICs have proven this to be an abysmal failure. Bitcoin is not and never will be free from such centralization, as ASICs make it far too easy to centralize.
Even if you could make an asic resistant algorithm for an alt coin, giant government funded computational center can easily overcome it, especially with the use of violence to coerce any private competition into cowtowing to their demands

[clout]

1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY

Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.

Yes, because for the first time in history wealth cannot be seized at gunpoint. Being that governments and their cronies legitimate their rule through force and coercion, they will be rendered impotent by the incorruptible nature of block chain technology. The 1%, whether free market entrepreneurs or political entrepreneurs, will always look for the best safe havens from government seizure. Block chain tech provides the most efficient solution for everyone.

You are discussing the hypothetical plan with which bitcoin was created. ASICs have proven this to be an abysmal failure. Bitcoin is not and never will be free from such centralization, as ASICs make it far too easy to centralize.
Even if you could make an asic resistant algorithm for an alt coin, giant government funded computational center can easily overcome it, especially with the use of violence to coerce any private competition into cowtowing to their demands

Mining is dead. POW is an efficient consensus mechanism.

[taltamir]

You are discussing the hypothetical plan with which bitcoin was created. ASICs have proven this to be an abysmal failure. Bitcoin is not and never will be free from such centralization, as ASICs make it far too easy to centralize.
Even if you could make an asic resistant algorithm for an alt coin, giant government funded computational center can easily overcome it, especially with the use of violence to coerce any private competition into cowtowing to their demands

Mining is dead. POW is an efficient consensus mechanism.

How is this in any way a response to ANYTHING I have said?

Also, POW = mining. Did you perhaps mean POS?
http://majesti.co/cryptonerd/crypto-terminology-101-pospow-part-4/

mining is the process of using POW to secure the network, for a preset amount of time (as dictated by the coin protocol on creation) it will also generate new coins for those securing the coins. Decades from now the POW protocol of bitcoin will stop issuing new coins and a new term other than mining would need to be made. But that doesn't change the fact that bitcoin is POW and it is extremely susceptible to centralization

[awesome31312]

And why is Bitcoin falling to $300?

[clout]

You are discussing the hypothetical plan with which bitcoin was created. ASICs have proven this to be an abysmal failure. Bitcoin is not and never will be free from such centralization, as ASICs make it far too easy to centralize.
Even if you could make an asic resistant algorithm for an alt coin, giant government funded computational center can easily overcome it, especially with the use of violence to coerce any private competition into cowtowing to their demands

Mining is dead. POW is an efficient consensus mechanism.

How is this in any way a response to ANYTHING I have said?

Also, POW = mining. Did you perhaps mean POS?
http://majesti.co/cryptonerd/crypto-terminology-101-pospow-part-4/

mining is the process of using POW to secure the network, for a preset amount of time (as dictated by the coin protocol on creation) it will also generate new coins for those securing the coins. Decades from now the POW protocol of bitcoin will stop issuing new coins and a new term other than mining would need to be made. But that doesn't change the fact that bitcoin is POW and it is extremely susceptible to centralization

*inefficient

[taltamir]

*inefficient

Ah yes, small typo completely changes the argument.
In that case IU agree with you

[LordSonjai]

the truth is that fiat will eventually be history and crypto currency will become the norm,might not be bit coin,but this filthy tangible currency is not going to cut it in 100 years. It would be a stretch to say 20,so I said 100 years just to be safe,considering I will be dead ;( sniff sniff,and when I am gone,remember me like tupac.

No one cares.

[clout]

the truth is that fiat will eventually be history and crypto currency will become the norm,might not be bit coin,but this filthy tangible currency is not going to cut it in 100 years. It would be a stretch to say 20,so I said 100 years just to be safe,considering I will be dead ;( sniff sniff,and when I am gone,remember me like tupac.

No one cares.

It'll be less than 10 years. We are on the verge of a currency crisis that will precipitate a global depression particularly in western nations.

[taltamir]

While we are clearly rushing towards a fiat currency crisis. I have my doubts that it would be crypto that would replace it, rather than precious metals.

[BohemianStalker]

the truth is that fiat will eventually be history and crypto currency will become the norm,might not be bit coin,but this filthy tangible currency is not going to cut it in 100 years. It would be a stretch to say 20,so I said 100 years just to be safe,considering I will be dead ;( sniff sniff,and when I am gone,remember me like tupac.

No one cares.

It'll be less than 10 years. We are on the verge of a currency crisis that will precipitate a global depression particularly in western nations.

Man I sure love these "bla bla bla 10 years" where are your facts?

[protocol332]

I don't think bitcoin is doomed, this is only the beginning.

[mannedmssn2M]

wouldn't sell my bitcoin for a million dollars if it ever came to our government or the wealth of the world in general destroying it

go ahead man try n buy my .01 bitcoin off me just ask franked he'll tell you im krazy for bitcoins (sorry franky no more free bitcoin bets)

[awesome31312]

wouldn't sell my bitcoin for a million dollars if it ever came to our government or the wealth of the world in general destroying it

go ahead man try n buy my .01 bitcoin off me just ask franked he'll tell you im krazy for bitcoins (sorry franky no more free bitcoin bets)

Can I buy your 10mBTC for $800 USD?

[clout]

While we are clearly rushing towards a fiat currency crisis. I have my doubts that it would be crypto that would replace it, rather than precious metals.

People arent going to go to the store with gold and silver. Metals are a terrible medium of exchange which is why throughout history they are typically not used as the primary currency. Currencies should be a claim on asset and not the asset itself. Thus I can see a digital version of the gold and silver being the primary mediums of exchange. If I have a crypto currency that maintains the purchasing power of gold and entitles me to interests on my initial capital then  I would certainly use that over the physical asset.

[LordSonjai]

the truth is that fiat will eventually be history and crypto currency will become the norm,might not be bit coin,but this filthy tangible currency is not going to cut it in 100 years. It would be a stretch to say 20,so I said 100 years just to be safe,considering I will be dead ;( sniff sniff,and when I am gone,remember me like tupac.

No one cares.

It'll be less than 10 years. We are on the verge of a currency crisis that will precipitate a global depression particularly in western nations.

Man I sure love these "bla bla bla 10 years" where are your facts?

just throwing out a rough number,If not in my lifetime I am almost positive it will be in the next generations lifetime. bit coin is still young and no one even imagined this crypto currency could be pulled off it was just a pipe dream before it actually came to reality. A pipe dream made by the government displayed in various cartoons and movies. But even the citizens that dreamed of this currency never would of imagined it would be a currency that is not governed by anyone,it is so funny because it is not really tangible,yet it is real within. never mind this paragraph is getting too long. but if you really want facts just look around you,we are progressing,how many people do you even know that carries money?Everyone uses their bank cards I know. It is practically the same is bit coin because when you are using your debit card your money is no longer tangible. It is translated into cyber space and numbers just like bit coin.

[taltamir]

While we are clearly rushing towards a fiat currency crisis. I have my doubts that it would be crypto that would replace it, rather than precious metals.

People arent going to go to the store with gold and silver. Metals are a terrible medium of exchange which is why throughout history they are typically not used as the primary currency. Currencies should be a claim on asset and not the asset itself. Thus I can see a digital version of the gold and silver being the primary mediums of exchange. If I have a crypto currency that maintains the purchasing power of gold and entitles me to interests on my initial capital then  I would certainly use that over the physical asset.

We went over this already clout, you keep on using this same strawman despite it being pointed out as a strawman before.
Fiat = "because I said so" money
Fiat =! only form of paper cash (you can have paper cash that isn't fiat)
Fiat =! paper cash only (also coin and digital)
Crypto =! only form of digital money possible (can also be fiat, gold backed, etc)

Also, if there is a currency collapse where people are no longer using government issued legal tender, then the "convenience" of digital currency is not going to be a deciding factor

also

Metals are a terrible medium of exchange which is why throughout history they are typically not used as the primary currency.

Hilariously wrong

[Memory1]

it has a deadline. what if oneday nobody can find a block any more? and that is the end of BTC